http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/6636/d15879jn6.gif

Looks okay. My first two UOA were with Mobil 1 10w-30. I switched to German Castrol for a while but then it became hard to find. This is the first change with the Rotella.

Looks like a good choice for your car. Holy Zinc and Phosphorus! Hope your kitties don't choke, at least the engine will be well-lubed :)

nice!! i am running rotella too... i will do UOA soon...

...when I elected to use the syn Rotella T, I based this partially on the fact that I am running catless.

If I was catted, I do not think I would use this oil to avoid poisoning them.

Why are molybdenum and boron so low? Not even sure what that implicates actually.

...when I elected to use the syn Rotella T, I based this partially on the fact that I am running catless.

If I was catted, I do not think I would use this oil to avoid poisoning them.

Yeah, based on this UOA I might start looking for another oil. I just wish the GC was easier to find locally. I'm not going back to M1.

Why are molybdenum and boron so low? Not even sure what that implicates actually.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/gasoline_diesel_report_expl.html

Another UOA I can't see because of my work filter. :disco: :lol:

Not many Rotella UOA's out there, but
here's a 15W40 (http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=972719&an=0&page=1#Post972719) for comparison.

-Dennis

Yeah, based on this UOA I might start looking for another oil. I just wish the GC was easier to find locally. I'm not going back to M1.

If I were catted....I'd likely run the Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 or Mobil 1 15W-50

If I were catted....I'd likely run the Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 or Mobil 1 15W-50

Interesting. I figured all "diesel" oils would have a similar make-up, detergent-wise to Rotella. I'll look into that a BITOG. Thanks.

The M1 Diesel Truck is like the old Delvac formula, it will have very high zinc and phosphorus levels also. I would not worry so much about the low Boron and Moly numbers, as there is sufficient Calcium and the wear numbers look low enough.

What is the connection with this oil and running catless??

Just curious as I'm running it for break in on my engine.

Phosphorus is limited in the current ILSAC GF-4 specification to 800 ppm (?? Anyone? I've forgotten the exact limit) because Phosphorus can 'poison' the catalytic convertor and reduce its effectiveness (as well, I suppose, as creating somewhat more obstruction in the cat). So, people who are running without catalysts may not care about this issue, whereas those who are running with them may care, and more so if they experience oil consumption.

To another poster higher up, there is no correlation between Molybdenum and/or Boron levels and wear. One of the 'neat' things about Rotella, at least in its CJ-4 formulation, is that is uses means not necessarily seen in a UOA to reduce wear. I like the stuff myself.

Phosphorus is limited in the current ILSAC GF-4 specification to 800 ppm (?? Anyone? I've forgotten the exact limit)
Yes, 800 ppm's.
Recent post on bitog (http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=963035&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1) .

-Dennis

The M1 Diesel Truck is like the old Delvac formula, it will have very high zinc and phosphorus levels also. I would not worry so much about the low Boron and Moly numbers, as there is sufficient Calcium and the wear numbers look low enough.

so M1 5w40 is also not good for catted dudes...rite?
oh man..so which one should i use now?..
no rotella t and no m1 5w40..
i am catted..

damn I was gonna switch to Rotella but is my cat gonna die? :( http://images.nasioc.com/forums/images/icons/nasioc/icon_kitty.gif

Thanks, Dennis.

If you have no or very low oil consumption (I have no measurable oil consumption), I wouldn't worry about it. I'd just get the Rotella T that's explicitly labeled CJ-4/SM (won't say GF-4 to my knowledge) and run it. It's good stuff right now. In fact, I am running Rotella T CJ-4/SM 10W30 right now. I'll switch in a couple hundred more miles to Renewable Lubes' 5W30 (probably their 0W30 next time I buy).

There's no ExxonMobil motor oil I'd buy right now at all. They're not up to snuff at this point. None of them; not M1, not the conventional, not D1 or TDT, none of them.

As a comparison, the zinc in my German Castrol UOA's ranged from 909 to 1011 after 6-7,500 miles. GC is SL/GF-3. It was actually 1025 after 6k miles on Motul Eco-nergy 5W30 (also SL rated) which is a thin 30 weight.

I'm sticking with SL oils. What's cheaper? A new cat or new bearings? :D

Renewable Lube 5W40 (brand bulwnkl is referring to) is a whopping 1751. :eek: I suspect all of their viscosities would be high. After all, you need to have great anti-wear additives when your base oil is vegetable oil. http://www.renewablelube.com/ Amazing stuff.

BTW, nice UOA!

-Dennis

After all, you need to have great anti-wear additives when your base oil is vegetable oil.

Cheap shot! :)

Some of the greatest anti-wear agents can't be seen this way. The Phos-Zinc stuff is just less expensive than (most of) those other brilliant ones.

I also think this is a good UOA; much better than the ones from that cheesy French oil! :p

I remember when Mobil 1 was all the rage :(

Cheap shot! :)

No, I wasn't trying to be funny but re-reading my post I see that it does comes across as a cheap shot. :lol: It's hard to argue with cheesy French oil when it produces great results for me! (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1275525&referrerid=767) Now only if I could get it for $4.50 with no shipping.

I remember when Mobil 1 was all the rage :(
Yep, before the oil requirements changed around 2004. Now that people are putting 30-50k+ miles since then running GF4/SM oil, regardless of their conditions, problems start popping up. I want to bang my head against the wall when people run GF-4/SM 5W30 in the desert, while racing and/or in modified WRX's.

Maybe things would be different if our dominant Mobil1 was like this UK version:
http://www.mobil.co.uk/UK-English/LCW/Products_Services/Mobil_1_ESP.asp
The new M1 10W30 High Mileage meets some of the same specs as this oil and the Rotella (SL, ACEA A3, higher High Temp High Shear, etc.). But, of course, it doesn't meet SM because of those reasons. I guess we can't have our cake and eat it too. :disco:

-Dennis

Poor bluesubie, you don't even know a bad cheesy French oil UOA when you see it! :p
(OK, that was a cheap shot; sorry) :)

Ok we're starting to go a little OT with our thread hijack, but this RLI is amazing. A Prius running the 0W20 (http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=978302&an=0&page=0#Post978302)had 1011 ppm's of zinc. :lol:

Isn't that an oxymoron? A hybrid car using a high zinc oil? Maybe there is something in the formulation that would keep the zinc from being bad for the cats. I can't imagine Dyson recommending something that would be.

-Dennis

No, I wasn't trying to be funny but re-reading my post I see that it does comes across as a cheap shot. :lol: It's hard to argue with cheesy French oil when it produces great results for me! (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1275525&referrerid=767) Now only if I could get it for $4.50 with no shipping.


Yep, before the oil requirements changed around 2004. Now that people are putting 30-50k+ miles since then running GF4/SM oil, regardless of their conditions, problems start popping up. I want to bang my head against the wall when people run GF-4/SM 5W30 in the desert, while racing and/or in modified WRX's.

Maybe things would be different if our dominant Mobil1 was like this UK version:
http://www.mobil.co.uk/UK-English/LCW/Products_Services/Mobil_1_ESP.asp
The new M1 10W30 High Mileage meets some of the same specs as this oil and the Rotella (SL, ACEA A3, higher High Temp High Shear, etc.). But, of course, it doesn't meet SM because of those reasons. I guess we can't have our cake and eat it too. :disco:

-Dennis


Well I picked up some GC at Vatozone, no more M1 for me.

when you say rotella is bad for cats, are you talking aftermarket cats,or the stock cats also?

Let's clear a couple things:

1) It's the phosphorus, NOT THE ZINC that's a potential catalyst 'poisoning' agent.
2) It doesn't matter whether the catalyst is OEM or aftermarket, phosphorus can potentially degrade its performance.

Also, to be clear, the additive levels in Renewable Lubes' products are quite different depending upon which product you buy (that makes sense and is 100% 'proper' because they are different fluids and have different target uses). It is only the HD items that presently have higher phos and/or zinc numbers. The others have levels of phos that are at least close if not outright compliant with GF-4 limits.

i mite have to try a Valvoline 5w40.. next time..
i like rotella 5w40 now tho...but dont wanna my cat go bad..

Yeah, high lead, I'm fully aware. And your's is not the first Rotella T 5w-40 they've seen.

http://www.vehmic.com/upload/blackstone5.PNG

As for the lead: Picked up the car at 50k miles. Changed it to M1 5w-30. Then changed at 57k miles and again with the M1 5w-30.

hmm so you got about avg phosphorus...i am confused now..

Let's clear a couple things:

1) It's the phosphorus, NOT THE ZINC that's a potential catalyst 'poisoning' agent.
2) It doesn't matter whether the catalyst is OEM or aftermarket, phosphorus can potentially degrade its performance.

Also, to be clear, the additive levels in Renewable Lubes' products are quite different depending upon which product you buy (that makes sense and is 100% 'proper' because they are different fluids and have different target uses). It is only the HD items that presently have higher phos and/or zinc numbers. The others have levels of phos that are at least close if not outright compliant with GF-4 limits.
A lot of times though, when you have higher zinc as an additive you'll also have higher phosphorous. The RLI 0W20 that I linked had 829 ppm's of phosphorous. That's not diesel oil high, but higher than my past three results with GF-3 German Castrol (796, 816, 754). I would guess that their xW30's are at least that high or higher.

The $60,000 question is, what's worse on your cats? Anti-wear additives at levels higher than GF-4 or low quality/low octane fuel?

bzbuzz - Phosphorous is an additive in oil, not a wear metal in your engine (like lead).

Feign - I think you should contact Terry Dyson (http://www.dysonanalysis.com/).

-Dennis

Those GC phos levels can be considered essentially equivalent to that RLI phos number (plus, I'm guessing your phos numbers are from a different lab than the RLI 0W20 report you listed?). Their xW30s that are NOT the HD product will show ~the same phos levels as the 0W20.

Slightly off-topic: If anyone reading this cares to use the RLI product in a turbocharged car that they ever drive hard, the recommendation from RLI is to use their 0W30 instead of their 5W30. I'm going to use their 5W30 because that's what I have on-hand until we make a bulk purchase at work and I can have my personal order shipped at the same time.

here is my UOA for shell rotella 5w40...

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc144/bzbuzz/untitled.jpg

Lead is zero! :cool: Of course you know you can go much farther on your interval. Did you change it?

-Dennis

yeh i changed it to same oil this time...I am going to try 5000miles and do UOA again..
after that then I will try redline 5w30 since winter is coming...

but i dont know if I should keep using this..cuz i dont wanna fool my cat in the downpipe....

You don't want to fool your cat or foul your cat? :D

Here's a virgin oil analysis on RL 5W20. (http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=906514&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1) There are enough anti-wear additives in this to run the same oil for as long as you own your car. :lol:

Maybe email RL and see what they say about high phosphorous being bad for cats.

Here's a RL 5W30 UOA from an STi (http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB3&Number=837483&Searchpage=6&Main=797425&Words=redline&topic=&Search=true#Post837483).
RL claims the above oils are API SM (although I don't think they actually stamp it on the bottle). http://www.redlineoil.com/pdf/4.pdf

/thread hijack off. :)

-Dennis

Ok we're starting to go a little OT with our thread hijack, but this RLI is amazing. A Prius running the 0W20 (http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=978302&an=0&page=0#Post978302)had 1011 ppm's of zinc. :lol:

Isn't that an oxymoron? A hybrid car using a high zinc oil? Maybe there is something in the formulation that would keep the zinc from being bad for the cats. I can't imagine Dyson recommending something that would be.

-Dennis

Perhaps a very tight engine, on and off a lot. My 02 Odyssey (on and off a lot due to short trips) has always been on the stuff the dealer uses, like 0w ?, or maybe 5w-20. I don't work on the minivan; just on the wrx, and occasionally help family members with Subies RS(1), L(1), 05 Legacy (2GT+1Anniversary, rarely) It's usually for the OBD-2 tester code pull, or to get them from servicing/repair, and infrequently to work.

I probably lost the warranty for the wrx, more or less, up front, not for oil, but for modifications. However, the engine engine/drive train may have been manufacturing "flukes," like a very long tool is a birth defect.:confused:

I could probably use the highest zinc oil available, without killing the single "high flow" cat, but I don't. I guess the mitigating factor is that I change oil and filters a little more frequently than most. I don't have to raise this primordial wrx, but the oil drain plug is the sti T probe one, so I need a long wrench (which I cut in half). Just right for a gorilla like the one that put the first oil filter on.:lol: