http://www.autoblog.com/2007/12/05/evo-x-vs-sti-tsukuba-lap-times/

EVO X vs STI - Tsukuba Lap Times

Posted Dec 5th 2007 2:02PM by Justin Gardiner
Filed under: Sports/GTs, Japan, Mitsubishi, Subaru

It didn't take long for Japan's journalists to get the new STI and EVO X side by side, and the results are now officially in. Tsukuba circuit regulars Kazuo Shimizu and Manabu Kawaguchi spent an afternoon thrashing around the notoriously twisty short circuit just north of Tokyo and here (drum roll please) are the best times they could ring out of the AWD rivals:

Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X : 1:06:46

Subaru Impreza WRX STI : 1:05:95

So there you have it. The new engine placed further forward in the engine bay of the EVO X than in the EVO IX has indeed proven to be a handicap, while the STI's "wheel at each corner" longer wheelbase plus new double wishbone rear suspension has proved its worth.

Neither car is quite as quick as its immediate ancestor though. Check out this 15 year rivalry of the EVO vs the STI as recorded at Tsukuba:

EVO / STI

2006 1:05:07 / 1:04:72

2005 1:04.88 / 1:04:17

2003 1:05:30 / 1:04:69

2001 1:05:17 / 1:06:56

1998 1:04:69 / 1:06:73

1996 1:07:00 / 1:05:92

1994 1:06:52 / 1:06:26

1992 1:10:90 / 1:07:99

[Source: CAR Top magazine]

Wow over a second slower than the 06 STI. Good job Subaru.

Wow over a second slower than the 06 STI. Good job Subaru.
So is the EVO

I wonder what the differences were between the 2005/6 USDM STI and the JDM version (other than the twin-scroll...talking suspension) or if those 2005/6 times were from the Spec-C? I never realised that the JDM version has been beating the JDM Evo there since 2003!?

Every mag has said the new USDM 08 feels faster, which is why I was wondering about the differences. Perhaps the new JDM version is a little bit softer than the previous JDM model while the new USDM version is a little better than the our previous version.

Either way, good job Subaru. :)

Wow over a second slower than the 06 STI. Good job Subaru.

Some of those past time attacks are from lighter model like Spec C.

Wow... so in essence both cars took three steps forward in style, and took 5 steps back in performance. :-(
So essentially the 05 was the fastest. 06 was with the mechanical center diff vs the clutch type in the 05 right ??

Wow over a second slower than the 06 STI. Good job Subaru.

Some of those past time attacks are from lighter model like Spec C.

Wow over a second slower than the 06 STI. Good job Subaru.

Some of those past time attacks are from lighter model like Spec C.

Wow... so in essence both cars took three steps forward in style, and took 5 steps back in performance. :-(
So essentially the 05 was the fastest. 06 was with the mechanical center diff vs the clutch type in the 05 right ??

So is the EVO

:lol:
If the EVO X is so much better than the STI, why is it slower around the track?

Oh well let me explain why Subaru ruined the STI. First,

Hmm, that's also JDM, i'm curious how the USDM will fair compared with the previous model.

needs to be tested in a school zone for real results

Wow... so in essence both cars took three steps forward in style, and took 5 steps back in performance. :-(
So essentially the 05 was the fastest. 06 was with the mechanical center diff vs the clutch type in the 05 right ??

http://www.fastestlaps.com/track3.html

Notice the models of the STIs and Evos that ran those faster times. Spec-C, STI Type RA-R, and Evo RS. Are we honestly supposed to believe that the "base" 2008 JDM STI and Evo X are supposed to be faster than those lightweight cars? :lol:

needs to be tested in a school zone for real results

All school zones are booked until further notice due to SRT-4 testing... ;)

*blah*

Wow over a second slower than the 06 STI. Good job Subaru.

I wonder if the change in tires (Dunlops instead of RE070) would account for the 1 second differential.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/track3.html

Notice the models of the STIs and Evos that ran those faster times. Spec-C, STI Type RA-R, and Evo RS. Are we honestly supposed to believe that the "base" 2008 JDM STI and Evo X are supposed to be faster than those lightweight cars? :lol:



It's impressive that the new STI is almost as fast as it's older lightweight companions, but hey lets just keep on crapping all over it since NASIOC knows the best years for the Impreza ever was 04/05. :rolleyes:

It's impressive that the new STI is almost as fast as it's older lightweight companions, but hey lets just keep on crapping all over it since NASIOC knows the best years for the Impreza ever was 04/05. :rolleyes:

You know what I just noticed? In the link I posted, the new STI is actually faster than the Spec-C and RA-R. :eek: I can't seem to find the 1:04.xx times for the 2005-2006. Weird.

So I guess my comment sounded like I was being negative towards the new 08, when in fact I was trying to defend it by saying "it's unfair to expect it to be faster than it's lightweight counterparts." But the link I posted shows then new car is faster, so my comment came across as though I was saying they were lying about the times...lol.

That link was more confusing than anything, since the new car was faster. I really wonder where they got those 1:04.xx times from...

Digital, I did not mean for my comment to be a flame or insult towards you. I was just saying that in general. ;)

The link you posted was pretty cool btw.

Wow... so in essence both cars took three steps forward in style, and took 5 steps back in performance. :-(
So essentially the 05 was the fastest. 06 was with the mechanical center diff vs the clutch type in the 05 right ??


its 1 second , you wont need that driving down to the grocery store.

The results were kinda what I expected. Why can't ppl just be happy that the STi and Evo are both very capable cars? :diaf:

BTW, the normal 07 STi from the last BestMotoring 2008/01 clocked a 1:06:375

Hmm, that's also JDM, i'm curious how the USDM will fair compared with the previous model.


The JDM STI has different tires and a different motor. I don't know what the differences are on the Evo, but I also want to see the USDM models of both do some battle on US soil.

Take the previous results with a grain of salt. Weather, track conditions, who was driving all can affect the times between years.

That being said, the 08STI vs EVO debate is OVER :lol:

The JDM STI has different tires and a different motor. I don't know what the differences are on the Evo, but I also want to see the USDM models of both do some battle on US soil.

Ya, and with 93 Octane this time.

Both the Mitsu evo and Subaru STI in Japan have 2.0L engines/Twin scroll IIRC. Yeah, I dont go off numbers taken from overseas. too many variables.

I wonder if the change in tires (Dunlops instead of RE070) would account for the 1 second differential.

jdm sti uses the re070.

redacted

jdm sti uses the re070.

both of the LA Auto show cars have Dunlops

jdm sti uses the re070.


I'm not so sure about that.

jdm sti uses the re070.

It depends... The 18" tire option is 245/40-18 RE050A's, and the 17" tire option is 235/35-17 RE070's. I'm guessing this car was wearing the 18's.

http://www.subaru.jp/impreza/wrxsti/equipment/index.html

both of the LA Auto show cars have DunlopsSo what? The new JDM STI tested above uses RE070 tires, a 2.0L engine with equal length headers and twin-scroll turbo and weighs less than the LA Auto show cars.

;20286912']So what? The new JDM STI tested above uses RE070 tires, a 2.0L engine with equal length headers and twin-scroll turbo and weighs less than the LA Auto show cars.

psst RE050s on 18s (though 17s are RE070s) :D

is there a video for this?

to me those numbers are highly suspect. There are no less than 4 (!) BMW M3 E46 bodies on there, and one of the normal ones bested 2 CSL's. Clearly there are other factors at work that require at least a second's forgiveness unless tested side-by-side with full specification disclosure. Same goes for the Nissan GT-R Nurburgring times.

Frank

Everyone in this post has missed the biggest factor in the different time. Weather conditions!!!!! We have no idea what the outside temp, and track temps were when those times were clocked. Temperature alone can account for a couple of seconds. I i have seen times change by 2 seconds in a matter of 2 weeks when i worked on a race team in speed world challenge. We went testing, then 2 weeks later we went back for the race weekend and times were dramatically different (Miller Motorsports Park).

Like everyone else said, we also dont know which models set the record times. I have lots of BM videos, maybe i should check and see which model clocked which times and what the weather was like.

The only was to actually compare times would be bring all the same cars and test them back to back on the same day, otherwise all times are irrelavant.

It's impressive that the new STI is almost as fast as it's older lightweight companions, but hey lets just keep on crapping all over it since NASIOC knows the best years for the Impreza ever was 04/05. :rolleyes:

No kidding.

new ones are so ugly

new ones are so ugly

:diaf: please

Everyone in this post has missed the biggest factor in the different time. Weather conditions!!!!!

Exactly what I was thinking... thank you!

I'd like to see 10+ days (multiple runs each day), same driver, AND with conditions listed.

Also, I'd like to see each car mod'ed with TBE and tune (to similar boost levels). THAT would be very telling and interesting.

I'm pretty sure the center diff on the '05s was not a clutch type. If I understand the DCCD correctly in that model, the center diff relied solely on the electromagnetic clutch locking mechanism for to control lock. The mechanical, clutch based center diffs weren't introduced until the '06 MY cars. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't get it why is the sti slower?
same engine with slightly more hp. the weight increase is only around 40 lbs and it has better suspension now with wider tires :confused:
what went wrong???

It does not specify if this is the Evo GSR or MR. If this is the GSR it does not count, as it is not a true Evo X. The transmission probably makes a big difference.

I am certain the MR with the DSG would be faster around Tsukuba than the STI even though this track seems to favor the STI. Considering practically every other track's lap time comparos favor the Evo over the years, something has to be up. The 5-speed manual is holding the X back I think.

Wake me up when it's a USDM STI vs. USDM Evo X MR. Then we will really see who is faster.

I can just imagine the STI with a DSG, now that would be something.

That being said, the 08STI vs EVO debate is OVER :lol:

Since everyone is getting all hurt over models, I'm sure that's not an EVO MR as Mitsu is still working on the SST. I wouldn't be surprised to see the MR beat the STI's time.

Also, I hear that some of the previous times for the Subaru were for the Spec C? :p I still would think all of Subaru's fancy new tricks should have been able to keep up with an old gen Spec C.

edit: Damn Jason beat me to it.

Everyone in this post has missed the biggest factor in the different time. Weather conditions!!!!! We have no idea what the outside temp, and track temps were when those times were clocked. Temperature alone can account for a couple of seconds. I i have seen times change by 2 seconds in a matter of 2 weeks when i worked on a race team in speed world challenge. We went testing, then 2 weeks later we went back for the race weekend and times were dramatically different (Miller Motorsports Park).

Like everyone else said, we also dont know which models set the record times. I have lots of BM videos, maybe i should check and see which model clocked which times and what the weather was like.

The only was to actually compare times would be bring all the same cars and test them back to back on the same day, otherwise all times are irrelavant.

Hi, welcome to post 23. :p


Take the previous results with a grain of salt. Weather, track conditions, who was driving all can affect the times between years.

That being said, the 08STI vs EVO debate is OVER :lol:

It does not specify if this is the Evo GSR or MR. If this is the GSR it does not count as it is not a true Evo X. The transmission makes a big difference.


The MR is heavier than the GSR and from the lastest side-by-side JDM tests it's not a whole lot faster.


I am certain the MR with the DSG would be faster around Tsukuba than the STI. This track seems to favor the STI as well, considering practically every other lap times comparo favors the Evo over the years.


...or the JDM STI has always just been better. :p

Since everyone is getting all hurt over models, I'm sure that's not an EVO MR as Mitsu is still working on the SST. I wouldn't be surprised to see the MR beat the STI's time.

? We've already seen tests of the JDM car with SST. Mitsu is having problems with mass-production; select test cars have SST.

I don't get it why is the sti slower?
same engine with slightly more hp. the weight increase is only around 40 lbs and it has better suspension now with wider tires :confused:
what went wrong???

Nothing went wrong. As pointed out, weather and/or comparisons to lightweight special models (Spec-C/Type RA-R.) I couldn't find those 1:04:xx numbers anywhere. Not saying they don't exist but I couldn't find them.

Digitalfiend, the MR came in at lower quarter mile times to the GSR even though it was a touch slower to 60. Also if I recall correctly it got faster track times as well.

USDM STI vs USDM Evo X MR is the comparo we all need to see, not this one. This one is STI at 100% vs Evo X at 90%. The DSG is a big part of the Evo X's equation.

jasoncps,

DSG doesn't help on the track, it helps noobs, thats all. I'm sorry to burst your bubble, an EVO X with SST won't be any faster than a MT on a hot lap.

Digitalfiend, the MR came in at lower quarter mile times to the GSR even though it was a touch slower to 60. Also if I recall correctly it got faster track times as well.

USDM STI vs USDM Evo X MR is the comparo we all need to see, not this one. This one is STI at 100% vs Evo X at 90%. The DSG is a big part of the Evo X's equation.

But not everyone is going to buy a MR. Also, I didn't dispute that the MR's time will be a little bit faster but I doubt that will put it ahead of the STI. Hell, the 07 JDM STI spanked the Evo X MR in that MotorTrend race (I know, I know... :lol:)

While this has nothing to do with STI vs Evo X, just because an Evo X has SST doesn't mean the driver is automatically going to turn in better lap times. That recent Evo X vs Evo X SST demonstrated that clearly, where the pro in the 5mt swallowed up the SST's advantage due to the less experienced driver. At least that is what was explained in that thread (I don't speak Japanese hehe.)

Garwin, of course the DSG helps on the track. Noobs, pros, everyone. Faster shifts equal faster lap times.

Garwin, of course the DSG helps on the track. Noobs, pros, everyone. Faster shifts equal faster lap times.

lol :rolleyes: ok, noob

lol :rolleyes: ok, noob

Honestly, you don't think so? Are you being sarcastic? Of course the DSG is faster, how can you say otherwise?

Of course the DSG is faster, how can you say otherwise? If a DSG makes a measurable difference in your time around a road course, then you need to seriously work on your driving skills.

If a DSG makes a measurable difference in your time around a road course, then you need to seriously work on your driving skills.

mmmm isn't the DSG 6 speed? with SHORTER RATIOS! than the GSR 5 speed
shorter ratios do give you faster times and when you add on a sweet super fast DSG tranny....well you get lower times unless you are really stupid!

? We've already seen tests of the JDM car with SST. Mitsu is having problems with mass-production; select test cars have SST.

Ya and they all say that the SST still needs refinements, which it's getting. Mitsu is having problems with programming.

Fifth Gear did a DSG vs. manual test with a TT and the DSG won pretty handily IIRC. A sequental gearbox is most defintely faster around a track than a manual. Unless you think all those professional race teams have just had n00b drivers and should really be running manuals.

in the new best motoring evo 10 test. it showed the sst version was slower than the 5 speed.

Ya and they all say that the SST still needs refinements, which it's getting. Mitsu is having problems with programming.

Fifth Gear did a DSG vs. manual test with a TT and the DSG won pretty handily IIRC. A sequental gearbox is most defintely faster around a track than a manual. Unless you think all those professional race teams have just had n00b drivers and should really be running manuals.

a DSG gearbox will get a car up to speed faster than a MT in the same car but it won't matter after they get going on a track

If a DSG makes a measurable difference in your time around a road course, then you need to seriously work on your driving skills.

For 99% of people, it will. Unless you can say with complete assurance that you will perfectly execute every upshift and downshift at the right moment with the exact amount of throttle application necessary for proper rev matching, you fit into that category.

In other words, go ahead and call F1, WRC, etc etc drivers pansies for their transmissions. If they weren't faster, why do you think they went with them? Style points?

FYI, the SST model is about 44lbs heavier on the FRONT of the car than the 5MT. That should mean a lot to the "omg, the STi is 40lbs heavier overall" groupies. :banana:

The driver of the SST in BM forgot he was in manual mode and let the engine redline. There's still room for error.

It does not specify if this is the Evo GSR or MR. If this is the GSR it does not count, as it is not a true Evo X. The transmission probably makes a big difference.

I am certain the MR with the DSG would be faster around Tsukuba than the STI even though this track seems to favor the STI. Considering practically every other track's lap time comparos favor the Evo over the years, something has to be up. The 5-speed manual is holding the X back I think.



Nope, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XzEvDckku8

For 99% of people, it will. Unless you can say with complete assurance that you will perfectly execute every upshift and downshift at the right moment with the exact amount of throttle application necessary for proper rev matching, you fit into that category.

In other words, go ahead and call F1, WRC, etc etc drivers pansies for their transmissions. If they weren't faster, why do you think they went with them? Style points?

you have to also consider the cramped cockpit the drivers are in, there is no way you can fit a stick on the side in there :D

I find it funny that this is a Subaru board yet all these ppl that wanted the EVO to be faster and will have to eat crow if they admit it is slower are ignoring real tests and resorting to speculation. It does not matter whether or not you think the MR will be faster than the GSR and it does not matter whether they used the MR or not in that test. If the STI lost couldn't we all then say "Well the Spec C isn't out yet..blah blah blah"

BTW, all you ppl that think the SST in the MR will make it faster please check out this video where in both the race and the time attack the 5MT proved to be faster on the same day. Stop trying to cover your asses after months of BS about how the EVO would dominate, it simply is not happening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XzEvDckku8 (oops, someone beat me to it, but still my point is made)

Nope, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XzEvDckku8

Ahem... burn. :D

For 99% of people, it will. Unless you can say with complete assurance that you will perfectly execute every upshift and downshift at the right moment with the exact amount of throttle application necessary for proper rev matching, you fit into that category.

In other words, go ahead and call F1, WRC, etc etc drivers pansies for their transmissions. If they weren't faster, why do you think they went with them? Style points?

WRC gearbox is worth 80k+ and still has a clutch. You really can't compare a factory semiauto transmission box to a fully functional sequential gearbox in a racecar. I am pretty sure that most people will race the evo x in group N with the manual transmission.

WRC gearbox is worth 80k+ and still has a clutch. You really can't compare a factory semiauto transmission box to a fully functional sequential gearbox in a racecar. I am pretty sure that most people will race the evo x in group N with the manual transmission.

The SST is a sequential manual. It has dual clutches. Also the WRC gearbox is worth 80k++... more like €150k.

Nope, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XzEvDckku8
Wow, the skyline sucks... He got bored loosing and just screwed around drifting :lol:

Son, we live in a world that has fast cars.
And those fast cars have to be guarded by men with engineering degrees. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg?
I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom.
You weep for the STI and you curse the DSG. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Evo’s DSG, while tragic, probably saved fast cars.

And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves fast cars...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me in that fast car. You need me in that fast car.
We use words like camber, boost, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps in hopes of driving the very fast car I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up an engineering degree and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!

Son, we live in a world that has fast cars.
And those fast cars have to be guarded by men with engineering degrees. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg?
I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom.
You weep for the STI and you curse the DSG. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Evo’s DSG, while tragic, probably saved fast cars.

And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves fast cars...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me in that fast car. You need me in that fast car.
We use words like camber, boost, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps in hopes of driving the very fast car I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up an engineering degree and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!

:confused: what?

^^^ ... light up after you post ... not before ...

:confused: what?

Damn it you...you messed up my little arrows!!! rawr! :lol:

Yes Sir Col. Jessup!

Damn it you...you messed up my little arrows!!! rawr! :lol:

my bad holmes... :o

Hey where are all those "the ms3 is 99% of the sti" people at? Ya know, all those people that forgot that the STi really is a fast car...

Yay for track results. :banana:

Son, we live in a world that has fast cars.
And those fast cars have to be guarded by men with engineering degrees. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg?
I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom.
You weep for the STI and you curse the DSG. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Evo’s DSG, while tragic, probably saved fast cars.

And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves fast cars...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me in that fast car. You need me in that fast car.
We use words like camber, boost, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps in hopes of driving the very fast car I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up an engineering degree and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!
Well said?

So essentially the 05 was the fastest.??

98 for subaru... 1998 1:04:69 :p

GC8 is still the KING :banana:

:confused: what?

You can't handle the truth. Noooo truth handler are you. I deriiiide your truth-handling capabilities.

man-child FTW :lol:

Honestly, you don't think so? Are you being sarcastic? Of course the DSG is faster, how can you say otherwise?

Shift times play a part.. a very very minuscule part of a car's times on a track. The lines taken, the lateral grip, transitional behavior, the braking ability and the car's power to weight are much more important factors.

The bottom line is that in a back-to-back test, the lines should be equal, the EVO wins on ultimate grip, but the STI has better braking, better power-weight and better transitional behavior. The EVO is down on HP and up on weight... no fancy gearbox can overcome that.

I have to admit, I was thinking initially that the evo X was going to be faster around the track (particularly when they said it was faster around a track than the outgoing model) but that best motoring video quickly dispelled that marketing hype. Until they put the car on a diet it will always be slower than the STI. It's a shame to put all of that technology into a a car and ruin the very quality of the car that made it great by adding 400 plus pounds. What would be funny is to have a test of the STI versus the evo X with a sumo wrestler in the back seat of the STI.

This thread is funny. The STI is faster around the track than the EVO X, and yet people are still trying to find ways to "show" the EVO X is better.

Can we throw "lunar cycles" on top of the pile of excuses people are trying to think up for why the EVO X is slower?

gg, the STI is faster around the track than the EVO X, why is it so hard for some people to accept that? The outgoing STI and EVO IX are faster than the X around the track as well, why isn't anyone screaming murder on Mitsu for "ruining" the EVO since it's slower than the current model?

This thread is funny. The STI is faster around the track than the EVO X, and yet people are still trying to find ways to "show" the EVO X is better.

Can we throw "lunar cycles" on top of the pile of excuses people are trying to think up for why the EVO X is slower?

gg, the STI is faster around the track than the EVO X, why is it so hard for some people to accept that? The outgoing STI and EVO IX are faster than the X around the track as well, why isn't anyone screaming murder on Mitsu for "ruining" the EVO since it's slower than the current model?

it worked for subaru guys when the evo was faster:lol:

Isn't the EVO platform the same as the Dodge Caliber?

You can't handle the truth. Noooo truth handler are you. I deriiiide your truth-handling capabilities.

:huh: what?

i dont like the front end , it reminds me of the 07 civic Si's

The outgoing STI and EVO IX are faster than the X around the track as well, why isn't anyone screaming murder on Mitsu for "ruining" the EVO since it's slower than the current model?

They ARE.... on Evo boards, at least.

Just not here, evidently.

i dont like the front end , it reminds me of the 07 civic Si's

:diaf:

When I was talking to the Dave Rosenblum from ICY/Pheonix Racing at the owners event Subaru held about two months ago he seemed to think they needed a DSG to be more competitive in their class, despite a weight penalty for adding DSG (+100lbs if I recall correctly). Their LGT race car's only performance mods were race gas + tune and a catback.

As far as i Know, jdm uses diffrent turbo compared to USDm.

The 8krpm redline 2.0L engine of the JDm needs a better top ending turbo, mean while the USDM turbo is asthmatic on top end.

Truthfully, putting the same JDM turbo to USDM makes the USDM a faster car I assume.
Makes sense?

jdm STi kicks Evo IX a$$ what if the USDM has that same turbo? haha.

:huh: what?
how old are you, like 7?

how old are you, like 7?

Can't take a joke much?

As far as i Know, jdm uses diffrent turbo compared to USDm.

The 8krpm redline 2.0L engine of the JDm needs a better top ending turbo, mean while the USDM turbo is asthmatic on top end.

Truthfully, putting the same JDM turbo to USDM makes the USDM a faster car I assume.
Makes sense?

jdm STi kicks Evo IX a$$ what if the USDM has that same turbo? haha.

Did you forget that the US has a 2.5L motor? Do you know what that means?

05 was a good year. ;)

Well looks like our super sports car Evo for 08 can be beaten in a straight line by most japanese grocery getters with a v6.. (accord,camry,g35s). Sti still retains the edge.. but with honda n toyota cramming bigger engines into their cars.. the day is coming near !!!

Hi Dane,I am still waiting to get paid!You told me tuesday that you haven't been online for days!I don't know how much you owe Jon,but your bill to be paid directly to me is $75 dollars!

For 99% of people, it will. Unless you can say with complete assurance that you will perfectly execute every upshift and downshift at the right moment with the exact amount of throttle application necessary for proper rev matching, you fit into that category.

In other words, go ahead and call F1, WRC, etc etc drivers pansies for their transmissions. If they weren't faster, why do you think they went with them? Style points?

Actually in WRC they went with them mostly because they prooved much more reliable. Beacuse like you mentioned, driver misses the shift and f-s up the tranny. More reliable=more speed ;) especially in WRC where they don't carry a spare tranny in the trunk :p

in the new best motoring evo 10 test. it showed the sst version was slower than the 5 speed.

And both Evo X manual and Evo X SST were slower than both Evo IX and previous gen STi

Sti still retains the edge.. but with honda n toyota cramming bigger engines into their cars.. the day is coming near !!!Yea hopefully the day will come near when Subaru realizes what it has to do is actually make the STi and/or WRX (same with Mitsu and the Evo) a much better car then the outgoing design, being farther ahead of the competition is what practically made Subaru take off in the US in 02 with the WRX. It's sad they failed to realize doing that again will mean more people will buy their cars yet again.

GJ Subaru though on making the newer/slower STi beat Mitsubishi's newer/slower Evo this time around though. :D

And both Evo X manual and Evo X SST were slower than both Evo IX and previous gen STi

I read in one evox review that the SST launch speed was also slower off the line than the 5sp because it had a limiter so it wouldn't blow out the tranny.

The other disadvantage of the SST was difficulty with tuning upgrades....

Yea hopefully the day will come near when Subaru realizes what it has to do is actually make the STi and/or WRX (same with Mitsu and the Evo) a much better car then the outgoing design, being farther ahead of the competition is what practically made Subaru take off in the US in 02 with the WRX. It's sad they failed to realize doing that again will mean more people will buy their cars yet again.

I still find these comments hilarious...

Here are the reasons why Subaru built the car they did:
1) WRC. Hatchbacks are winning these events and Subaru wants to win these events, it seems like a no-brainer.
2) Safety standards. First small car to earn the top safety rating.
3) Comfort/Utility. All reports have indicated how much more capable the car is and how much better it feels than the previous.

And, they did it without sacrificing hardly any performance. Pine about your 0-60 times, the .05 seconds in the 1/4 mile, skidpad, etc. The purpose of the car is Rally and if they start getting on the podium consistently you'll know exactly why they built it they way they did.

Hence, why Petter is on the payroll, and we're not. I'd hate to imagine that Subaru owners are that stuck in the past that they can't see the real reason this car exists - for Rally, not for Dragstrips.

^ Very good point. Remember the 2008 Group N STI is 0.3 seconds quicker per kilometer vs the old group N. That is 3 seconds for every 10km! :cool:

^ said that way its quite impressive the redesign has improved rally performance that much


I dont want to start a new thread, but is the STI in line for a DSG gearbox option, or other similar system? Im kinda....tired of the shifting in traffic so I think it would be a good compromise.

Nope, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XzEvDckku8

From what I heard they overheated and killed the SST during the race. Like I said I still think when the SST EVO actual works correctly it will be faster than the STI around a track. While I think the EVO will eventually be faster around a track I still think the STI is a better car. If for nothing else than Mitsu's obvious lack of quality. When Subaru finally gives the STI DI I think it will be game over as far as performance goes. Unless Mitsu can bring themselves to put a bigger motor in the EVO.

JC

Actually in WRC they went with them mostly because they prooved much more reliable. Beacuse like you mentioned, driver misses the shift and f-s up the tranny. More reliable=more speed ;) especially in WRC where they don't carry a spare tranny in the trunk :p

WRC teams actually do carry a spare tranny. Not in the trunk, but it's only a 10 minute job for the pit crew.

From what I heard they overheated and killed the SST during the race. Like I said I still think when the SST EVO actual works correctly it will be faster than the STI around a track. While I think the EVO will eventually be faster around a track I still think the STI is a better car. If for nothing else than Mitsu's obvious lack of quality. When Subaru finally gives the STI DI I think it will be game over as far as performance goes. Unless Mitsu can bring themselves to put a bigger motor in the EVO.

JC

Do you know if the SST car was functioning properly during the time attack which is used to determine the strating order? I am curiious because I was shocked that the SST was slower in both sessions. It looks like Mitsu has some reliability issues to solve in the near future.

Do you know if the SST car was functioning properly during the time attack which is used to determine the strating order? I am curiious because I was shocked that the SST was slower in both sessions. It looks like Mitsu has some reliability issues to solve in the near future.

I heard they had problems with the car the whole time. I've also heard mitsu engineers are having real difficulty getting the SST ready for production release. Could just be EVO owner gossip but knowing Mitsu seems prefectly reasonable.

very nice it's a shame the new sti hatchy looks like ass :(

IMHO the 04-05 STIs had the best design

I heard they had problems with the car the whole time. I've also heard mitsu engineers are having real difficulty getting the SST ready for production release. Could just be EVO owner gossip but knowing Mitsu seems prefectly reasonable.


So wouldn't it be nice if they would just kick the MR out the door with a nice manual tranny?:D

Yea hopefully the day will come near when Subaru realizes what it has to do isStop there... think about it. How many hours a week do you get paid to use your extreme depth of knowledge about the car business to brainstorm about a product's market viability?


Didn't think so. Moving on.. actually make the STi and/or WRX (same with Mitsu and the Evo) a much better car then the outgoing designPlease look back to the serious Japanese sports cars of the 80s and 90s. What happened to them? They lasted about 3 generations with each generation getting remarkably faster, expensive and more complex... then they died... because they were too fast (insurance & daily-drivability), too expensive (despite a booming economy) and too complex (maintenance costs and poor reliability)., being farther ahead of the competition is what practically made Subaru take off in the US in 02 with the WRX. It's sad they failed to realize doing that again will mean more people will buy their cars yet again. Subaru has increased sales every year since the launch of the Outback. They sold more '04-'05 Imprezas than '02-'03 Imprezas, and more '06-'07 Imprezas than '04-'05 Imprezas... and so far, they've sold more '08 Imprezas in the first two months than Imprezas the same months since THE DAWN OF TIME. :rolleyes:
GJ Subaru though on making the newer/slower STi beat Mitsubishi's newer/slower Evo this time around though. :DAccording to the data we've gotten so far, the new base model STI is faster around a track than the Type RA-R.. the pinnacle of the production model GD Imprezas. I think congratulations are due, indeed.

yippy

Stop there... think about it. How many hours a week do you get paid to use your extreme depth of knowledge about the car business to brainstorm about a product's market viability?


Didn't think so. Moving on.. Please look back to the serious Japanese sports cars of the 80s and 90s. What happened to them? They lasted about 3 generations with each generation getting remarkably faster, expensive and more complex... then they died... because they were too fast (insurance & daily-drivability), too expensive (despite a booming economy) and too complex (maintenance costs and poor reliability).Subaru has increased sales every year since the launch of the Outback. They sold more '04-'05 Imprezas than '02-'03 Imprezas, and more '06-'07 Imprezas than '04-'05 Imprezas... and so far, they've sold more '08 Imprezas in the first two months than Imprezas the same months since THE DAWN OF TIME. :rolleyes:
According to the data we've gotten so far, the new base model STI is faster around a track than the Type RA-R.. the pinnacle of the production model GD Imprezas. I think congratulations are due, indeed.

Please, everyone, LISTEN TO BEAVERBOY.

O5 FTW!

Were headed down hill now... :)

EVO / STI

2006 1:05:07 / 1:04:72

2005 1:04.88 / 1:04:17

2003 1:05:30 / 1:04:69

2001 1:05:17 / 1:06:56

1998 1:04:69 / 1:06:73

1996 1:07:00 / 1:05:92

1994 1:06:52 / 1:06:26

1992 1:10:90 / 1:07:99

Stop there... think about it. How many hours a week do you get paid to use your extreme depth of knowledge about the car business to brainstorm about a product's market viability?


Didn't think so. Moving on.. Please look back to the serious Japanese sports cars of the 80s and 90s. What happened to them? They lasted about 3 generations with each generation getting remarkably faster, expensive and more complex... then they died... because they were too fast (insurance & daily-drivability), too expensive (despite a booming economy) and too complex (maintenance costs and poor reliability).Subaru has increased sales every year since the launch of the Outback. They sold more '04-'05 Imprezas than '02-'03 Imprezas, and more '06-'07 Imprezas than '04-'05 Imprezas... and so far, they've sold more '08 Imprezas in the first two months than Imprezas the same months since THE DAWN OF TIME. :rolleyes:
According to the data we've gotten so far, the new base model STI is faster around a track than the Type RA-R.. the pinnacle of the production model GD Imprezas. I think congratulations are due, indeed.

Thank God, the voice of reason appears.

And there WILL be special editions, particularly in Japan- like a new RA-R or an S205. Personally, I'm holding out for a 27B (yes, 22B was 555 in hexadecimal, whatever, lay off) with more displacement, bigger fenders and a gigantor wing, but maybe I shouldn't hold my breath... :D

Thank God, the voice of reason appears.

And there WILL be special editions, particularly in Japan- like a new RA-R or an S205. Personally, I'm holding out for a 27B (yes, 22B was 555 in hexadecimal, whatever, lay off) with more displacement, bigger fenders and a gigantor wing, but maybe I shouldn't hold my breath... :D
Personally, I'm holding out for a 29A, in black. :devil:

Seriously though, I doubt subaru will bring the RA or Spec C models stateside.

WRC teams actually do carry a spare tranny. Not in the trunk, but it's only a 10 minute job for the pit crew.

That's why I said in the trunk because they have a bunch of tools and spare parts they do carry in the trunk in case something happens on the road.
You don't finish the stage, you lose points.

They can also change the clutch in 2 mins but not in the middle of the road :p

O5 FTW!

Were headed down hill now... :)

EVO / STI

2006 1:05:07 / 1:04:72

2005 1:04.88 / 1:04:17

2003 1:05:30 / 1:04:69

2001 1:05:17 / 1:06:56

1998 1:04:69 / 1:06:73

1996 1:07:00 / 1:05:92

1994 1:06:52 / 1:06:26

1992 1:10:90 / 1:07:99

HA! JDM 05 is the USA 06. ^_^ Hawkeye FTW.

In all seriousness, the track condition and specific model iteration of the STi used for those times is crucial. I still pray that Subaru will bring us specialty models like a Spec C and Spec C RA, RA-R, etc. as I would be first in line, but I doubt they'll ever pull their heads out of the butts.

O5 FTW!

Were headed down hill now... :)

EVO / STI

2006 1:05:07 / 1:04:72

2005 1:04.88 / 1:04:17

2003 1:05:30 / 1:04:69

2001 1:05:17 / 1:06:56

1998 1:04:69 / 1:06:73

1996 1:07:00 / 1:05:92

1994 1:06:52 / 1:06:26

1992 1:10:90 / 1:07:99

Again, this data is not reliable because of differing climate conditions. The only way to see is to do a side-by-side comparo, which I think BM will do later.

HA! JDM 05 is the USA 06. ^_^ Hawkeye FTW.

In all seriousness, the track condition and specific model iteration of the STi used for those times is crucial. I still pray that Subaru will bring us specialty models like a Spec C and Spec C RA, RA-R, etc. as I would be first in line, but I doubt they'll ever pull their heads out of the butts.

you don't call the 06 hawkeye! :mad:
its the pignose! :banana:

O5 FTW!

Were headed down hill now... :)

EVO / STI

2006 1:05:07 / 1:04:72

2005 1:04.88 / 1:04:17

2003 1:05:30 / 1:04:69

2001 1:05:17 / 1:06:56

1998 1:04:69 / 1:06:73

1996 1:07:00 / 1:05:92

1994 1:06:52 / 1:06:26

1992 1:10:90 / 1:07:99



And AGAIN since you clearly haven't been paying attention.....the times from older test data(03-06) were using the Spec c's and RA-R's vs a "normal" 08 Sti. So unless you were being sarcastic, you are wrong 05 "normal Sti FTL.

The new 08 is clearly superior:banana:

Mike...

And AGAIN since you clearly haven't been paying attention.....the times from older test data(03-06) were using the Spec c's and RA-R's vs a "normal" 08 Sti. So unless you were being sarcastic, you are wrong 05 "normal Sti FTL.

The new 08 is clearly superior:banana:

Mike...

I think I really want the new STI because I can't afford it anymore! :lol:
:(

Here is a Best Motoring video recently posted to YouTube where an older STI and an EVO top the EVO X on the 5-lap race in Japan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK9S3kG3olc

And AGAIN since you clearly haven't been paying attention.....the times from older test data(03-06) were using the Spec c's and RA-R's vs a "normal" 08 Sti. So unless you were being sarcastic, you are wrong 05 "normal Sti FTL.

The new 08 is clearly superior:banana:

Mike...

the usdm sti was the closest thing to a spec-c out of japan.

From what I heard they overheated and killed the SST during the race. Like I said I still think when the SST EVO actual works correctly it will be faster than the STI around a track. While I think the EVO will eventually be faster around a track I still think the STI is a better car. If for nothing else than Mitsu's obvious lack of quality. When Subaru finally gives the STI DI I think it will be game over as far as performance goes. Unless Mitsu can bring themselves to put a bigger motor in the EVO.

JC

Why the "obvious lack of quality" statement towards Mitsu. I have owned several Subies and Mitsubishi's and I have not had problems with any of them. If you drive like an a**hat then virtually any car will break. Mitsubishi's quality in the last few years has gotten better, I don't think statements like "obvious lack of quality" qualify for Mitsu any longer. I'm not a fanboi either, I've owned MANY cars and in my experience Mitsu isn't giving up quality to Subaru.

Didn't want to start a new thread, so I'm going to post-whore this link everywhere: CARS.COM quicky-non-review video
http://www.cars.com/go/video/player.jsp?makeid=45&year=2008&modelid=408&location=CC_2008_Subaru_Impreza_QD_WS.flv&aff=latimes&aff=national

^^^ Worst one yet...

Another positive review of the seats. Nothing else interesting in that video though.

Didn't want to start a new thread, so I'm going to post-whore this link everywhere: CARS.COM quicky-non-review video
http://www.cars.com/go/video/player.jsp?makeid=45&year=2008&modelid=408&location=CC_2008_Subaru_Impreza_QD_WS.flv&aff=latimes&aff=national

Apparently Outbacks have SI-Drive? :rolleyes:

Apparently Outbacks have SI-Drive? :rolleyes:

they do.

Apparently Outbacks have SI-Drive? :rolleyes:

....Yes, as of MY2007.

....Yes, as of MY2007.

Whaaaaaaaaa...I always thought it was a Spec B thing. Why do the Outbacks get it and not the LGTs?

Whaaaaaaaaa...I always thought it was a Spec B thing. Why do the Outbacks get it and not the LGTs?

Legacy GTs got it in MY2007, also. I believe at this point all the turbo and 3.0R Legacies and Outbacks have SI drive.

It was debuted on the 2007 Spec B, though.