title should read "spot" not sop ops!

I wanna replace my stock fog lights with the new hella 500ff lights and since they are only available in driving pattern and I'd be mounting them in the stock postion for my 2003 wrx wagon with 55w bulbs, will it be ok to wire them up to my stock fog switch (which is wired to be able to have fogs on with either highs or low beams) and have them on in town with my low beams on? I figured with them being so low I'd be fine and won't blind anyone, thoughts?

No, it's illegal and incredibly a$$-hole-ish. (stupid ******* profanity filter)

Driving beams project light forwards into the eyes of other drivers, regardless of how low they are on the car. The only way to make them not do this is to point them at the ground, which defeats the point of having them. If you want to run driving lights, they need to be slaved to the light-stalk/high-beam switch. If you want to have lights that are on with your lows, they need to be fog pattern. In most states, lights that are on with your lows are limited to no higher than ~24" off the ground and can throw absolutely no light farther than ~20' in front of the frontmost point of the car. If you want lows, 500 Fogs are going to be everything you need.

The stock wiring will be able to handle it no problem... only thing is the Hella driving lights are REALLY bright and will blind oncoming traffic even if they're aimed low. My brother put Hella 500 driving lights in place of the stock fogs on his 02 WRX and blinds everyone when they're on, so he rarely uses them (and they're aimed very low). The plain 500 drivings are probably 3 times brighter than the high beams... i couldn't imagine how bright the FF500's would be.

If you really want driving lights, I'd definitely recommend having them wired in with the high beams as a courtesy to other drivers. If you want to put something in the stock location and not mess with the wiring, Hella 500 fogs would be perfect and not blind anyone.

the ff500 replace the 500 series lights from hella, they are just a newer design like the ff1000 the housing and glass is a little better and more consistant pattern.

the ff500 replace the 500 DRIVING lights from hella, they are just a newer design like the ff1000 the housing and glass is a little better and more consistant pattern.
Fixed that for you. There's no 500FF fogs yet.

Well should I mount them to my stock location or make a light bar? I like having fog lights but the stockers are bot really that effective. Theres more deer and furry woodland creatures than inclimant weather in my area, so I'm leaning towards the stock location, with DIY mounts. ANyone got pics of their DIY mounts for bugeyes?

If you need lights for driving in fog or snow at low speed, then you need fog lights. If you need lights for seeing animals on or near the to the road when driving at speed, then you need driving lights. In general, fog lights should be positioned wide and low (like the stock position) while driving lights should be positioned high and tight. However, putting driving lights in the holes for stock fogs isn't _that_ bad of a location, it's just not ideal.

SO I guess I'll fab up my own kartboy type mounts, should I use 1/8 aluminum? Or thicker?

If I use the hella harness/wiring kit can I put some 100w bulbs in there without melting anyhting?

if you do a search on my name u can see pics of them installed on my bugeye.. I have a fs/ft thread ..they are bright but aimed low and they don't blind oncomming trafic. I just made my own brakets.

So if you can't use the ff500s, Are the Hella 500 Fog lamps a worthwhile upgrade over the stock fog lamps?

So if you can't use the ff500s, Are the Hella 500 Fog lamps a worthwhile upgrade over the stock fog lamps?


the hella 500ff are the equivalant of 500 fogs just in a driving pattern.

from reading, i'm under the impression that there is both a Driving and Fog 500

SO I guess I'll fab up my own kartboy type mounts, should I use 1/8 aluminum? Or thicker?

If I use the hella harness/wiring kit can I put some 100w bulbs in there without melting anyhting?

The traditional 500s cannot dissipate enough heat to safely and consistently run 100W bulbs. ESPECIALLY inside the bumper. You will eventually crack the lenses. There's no data on wither the FF500s can run 100W bulbs long term or not.

So if you can't use the ff500s, Are the Hella 500 Fog lamps a worthwhile upgrade over the stock fog lamps?

Yes, the 500 Fogs are very good, especially for the money. You have to go to the ~$150 Hella Micro DE Fogs or the ~$200 Hella Rallye 3000 Fogs to beat them.

the hella 500ff are the equivalant of 500 fogs just in a driving pattern.

No, this is absolutely not true. The Hella FF500s are an redesigned/upgraded version of the Hella 500 Driving lights. Honestly, they're such a big change fom the 500s that the FF500s really should have gotten a new number along with the
"FF" designation. The Hella 500 Fog lights are a TOTALLY different product and there is no new version of them at this time.

from reading, i'm under the impression that there is both a Driving and Fog 500

The old-style Hella 500s came in Fog, Amber Fog, and Driving. The new style Hella FF500s ONLY come in Driving.


OK, there seems to be confusion here about what pattern people want. Here's something I wrote up a while ago to help someone understand beam pattern:


Beams break down into a couple of broad categories.

Fogs are obvious. They're a wide, flat, even beam with a very sharp front cut off. They are designed not to project any light up (so as not to dazzle you or oncoming traffic) and do not project light far enough ahead to actually drive by at anything much above idle. They're not really a whole lot of useful for anything other than horrid weather. They can also kind of be a poor man's cornering beam.
http://www.rallylights.com/hella/hella%20images/4000_Fog_Lux_sm.jpg



Cornering beams are designed to throw light almost straight sideways and only slightly to the front to illuminate very tight corners. These solve the problem of you looking out your side window into the hairpin yet your headlights are pointing the same direction as the car (aka, into the forest). Cornering beams may actually throw more light to the sides than they do on-axis, resulting in huge amounts of light off to either side of a straight road.
http://www.rallylights.com/hella/hella%20images/74809_Lux_xl.jpg



Driving beams (and I'm lumping Euro beams in with them) throw a medium-broad light to both sides of the road, but concentrate the majority of the light well down the road away from you. There's a definite hot spot, meant to enhance your central vision, allowing you to see obstacles farther down the road, thus allowing you to travel more safely and faster. They also have a broad enough side throw, though much dimmer than the central spot, that the ditches, fence rows, treeline, etc along both sides of the road are illuminated so you can spot animals about to run into the road. The majority of rally drivers now use these exclusively, possibly with cornering beams. If you get only one beam type, get these.
http://www.rallylights.com/hella/hella%20images/74807_Lux.jpg



Pencil beams are the previous generation of racing technology. They're the archetypal spotlight. They throw an extremely narrow, extremely focused beam and throw light an extremely long way down the road (upwards of 2mi in some configurations). They are entirely useless without supplemental driving beams because they're so narrow they won't light up the entire width of the road. They're just for spotting a treeline, downed tree, cliff, or cow WAY WAY WAY ahead of you when traveling at great speed. Most racing has switched away from pencil beams to driving beams as driving beams have become better and better at lighting up the distance.
http://www.rallylights.com/hella/hella%20images/74802_xl.jpg


To put this into a Subaru perspective, here's the stock 05 low beams:
http://siriusphoto.com/forum_posts/headlights/series2_lows.jpg

Here's the stock 05 lows and highs together:
http://siriusphoto.com/forum_posts/headlights/series2_highs.jpg

Here's all the stock lighting with the FF1000s:
http://siriusphoto.com/forum_posts/headlights/series2_all.jpg

Here's just the FF1000s by themselves so you can get an idea of their beam spread:
http://siriusphoto.com/forum_posts/headlights/series2_ff1000.jpg



As you can see, the FF1000s, being the low end of the Rallye line, don't project too much farther than the stock high beams. However, they DO make things at the limit of the stock high beams much more visible AND they also illuminate a much wider path than the stock high beams do. While it simply flipping the 1000s on and off while the high beams are on won't result in a "Holy **** that's amazing!" moment, you will, after driving for 30 minutes, realize that you are WAY more relaxed and WAY less tired than you've ever been before while driving at night. It would be hard to overstate the increase in driver comfort and reduction in driver strain associated with these lights even though a quick flick on and off won't instantly impress. Also, they increased WIDTH of the illumination makes driving at night in the country MUCH safer. They allow you to fully visualize both sides of the road, across the ditch, and all the way back to the treeline/corn row for a good 200-300yds in front of you. This makes it MUCH, MUCH easier to avoid hitting animals.

No, this is absolutely not true. The Hella FF500s are an redesigned/upgraded version of the Hella 500 Driving lights. Honestly, they're such a big change fom the 500s that the FF500s really should have gotten a new number along with the
"FF" designation. The Hella 500 Fog lights are a TOTALLY different product and there is no new version of them at this time.

I was only thing to say that they are the same in size and mounting configuration, I didn't mean they were identical.

I was only thing to say that they are the same in size and mounting configuration, I didn't mean they were identical.

Ah, gotcha, sorry for going off on you then.