<sorry for the cross-post from openecu.org, but there's so much more traffic here i figure i might get more help :) >

flashed my otherwise stock 2005 5mt saabaru to stage 1 using this rom (http://www.plasmatize.com/osecuroms/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16&sid=743ea99690cde856103b942e80629b45) from openecu.org.

drove around town for 40mi or so, then on the fwy for about 50mi before creating this log (http://rock925.com/c337/enginuitylog_20071228_103550.csv) (rt click, save as ;)) wot, 3rd gear pull, 76 brand premium gas (92 octane in oregon i think).

as the rpms hit 6k the injectors are at 99%. that seems too high to me. any thoughts? anything else stand out from the log that i should look into?

thanks!
-scott

Cold weather = denser air =more fuel needed.Normal http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/search.php?searchid=12115286

so you're saying i have nothing to be worried about? or it's normal in cooler weather & i need to make some adjustments to the map? it's not as if the nw is really ever very cold--or hot :)

your link was to a search, not an actual thread, but i did read some good info by searching some more. i also learned i can search on idc--duh.

could you post the thread you were referring to? or the search tems for me?

i also learned how to attach logs inline, if anyone else cares to look ;)

afl ct el rpm fbkc flkc iam it idc iat kc adv mrp maf toa mph
2.2 189 1.12 3692 0 0 15 19 23.63 46 6.5 0.44 68.96 100 50
1.81 189 1.8 3780 0 0 15 14 49.19 46 8 7.11 114.38 100 50
-0.49 189 2.11 3882 0 0 15 14 61.28 46 6.5 12.48 137.03 100 50
-0.49 189 2.1 3991 0 0 15 14 61.31 46 7 13.06 136.69 100 51
-0.49 187 2.17 4105 0 0 15 14 65.68 46 6.5 14.07 148.8 100 51
-0.49 187 2.19 4240 0 0 15 14.5 68.74 46 6.5 14.07 152.22 100 53
-0.49 187 2.21 4380 0 0 15 15.5 70.84 46 6.5 14.07 158.69 100 53
-0.49 187 2.22 4512 0 0 15 16 74.59 46 7 14.36 165.86 100 56
-0.49 187 2.26 4618 0 0 15 16.5 78.81 46 7.5 14.51 172.73 100 56
-0.49 187 2.24 4711 0 0 15 16.5 80.1 46 8 14.65 176.58 100 60
-0.49 187 2.27 4826 0 0 15 17.5 83.67 46 8.5 14.65 180.42 100 60
-0.49 187 2.28 4973 0 0 15 17.5 88.06 46 8 14.65 191.73 100 62
-0.49 187 2.28 5102 0 0 15 19 88.89 46 7.5 14.51 192.11 100 65
-0.49 187 2.27 5162 0 0 15 19 90.29 46 7 14.36 195.85 100 65
-0.49 187 2.24 5353 0 0 15 20 91.72 46 7 14.07 197.71 100 68
-0.49 187 2.21 5430 0 0 15 21 92.68 46 7.5 13.64 198.46 100 68
-0.49 187 2.17 5506 0 0 15 21.5 91.62 46 8 13.35 198.83 100 72
-0.49 187 2.18 5656 0 0 15 22.5 95.32 46 8 13.2 205.4 100 72
-0.49 187 2.16 5738 0 0 15 22.5 95.48 46 8 13.06 204.04 100 75
-0.49 187 2.13 5901 0 0 15 23.5 95.43 46 7.5 12.91 205.8 100 75
-0.49 187 2.1 5971 0 0 15 23.5 96.81 46 7 12.77 208.6 100 78
-0.49 187 2.11 6043 0 0 15 23.5 99.27 46 7 12.77 214.6 100 78
-0.49 187 2.08 6172 0 0 15 24 98.76 45 7.5 12.77 212.6 100 80
-0.49 187 2.04 6203 0 0 15 26.5 97.93 45 7.5 12.77 215.4 100 82
-0.49 187 2.02 6276 0 0 15 26.5 99.07 45 8 12.77 216.6 100 82
-0.49 185 1.99 6394 0 0 15 27 97.62 45 8 12.77 213.4 100 85
-0.49 185 1.97 6527 0 0 15 27 98.96 45 8 12.91 213 100 85
-0.49 185 1.95 6550 0 0 15 27.5 98.61 45 9 13.06 212.2 100 87
-0.49 185 1.93 6690 0 0 15 28.5 98.5 45 9 12.91 214.2 96.08 87

sorry for being such a newb to this. i wish enginuity was up so i could read more background stuff...

-scott

u need a pump and injectors or just turn down the boost a few PSI. Don't run your injectors near 100%. 90-94 is what I aim for in the cold.

Injectors from the factory rarely run on the plus side of 8x% DC, simply for the fact that overheating and early failure of the injector will ensue. Solution: larger displacement pump with appropriate injectors.

Rich

u need a pump and injectors or just turn down the boost a few PSI. Don't run your injectors near 100%. 90-94 is what I aim for in the cold.

Well, even the stock ecu will push over 100% duty cycle at times. IDC is a rough calculation anyways.

That said, I'll say I've logged up to 118% duty cycle, YIKES! I'm not stock and dialed back the boost. But, even at that high duty cycle AFRs were spot on and I saw no knock correction. So I think there might be a little headroom.

I now see 104% on a regular basis and have had no problems. (I have new injectors ready to be flow tested btw)

Best not to chance things though, I'm prepared to pick up a new short block when the day comes ;)

fulham do you have a wideband?

If you were running super rich your duty cycle would be high.

Yeah like Smoby said if this map leans out after a fill up or two it will run lower IDC's so go easy on it for like 150 or 200 miles and then check it again.

Smoby -- no i dont have a wideband. i was looking at this as a "getting my feet wet exercise" by going to stage 1, then i'd start getting things like a wideband and experimenting more. guess i sure am getting my feet wet :)

jordanretro1223 -- i filled up with shell v-power today. i trust that more than the 76 gas i got right off i-5, so i'm hoping things will improve. of course i'm going snowboarding tomorrow which will mean driving 50 mi & gaining 3000' elevation (and temps < freezing at the top). guess i'd better take things super easy. pity i cant log on the way, but i'm not leaving my laptop in the parking lot...

otherwise--i wonder how many others have installed the osecu stage1 on stock cars and aren't logging at all :confused: can't believe i'm the only one driving around in cold dense air, especially with all the subarus in the nw.

the map shows a target boost of 15.47@4800, and i'm at 14.65, and down to 12.84@6800, and i'm at 13@6600, so i'm not even hitting target.

i don't really want to go to bigger injectors & pump at this stage...guess it's time to start learning how to play with the map :p

thanks for all the help!

You should be fine with the stock injectors at that IDC, even at stage 2 levels. There are some threads on this if you search.

Also if that is a 3rd gear log, you'll hit a little higher boost in 4th, so don't expect to get exactly whats on your table in 3rd gear. So tune accordingly.

From logging, my map/car likes Shell 93 the least. IAM gets killed every time I use it. Your results may vary, but I suggest trying different gas.

it is all normal. ive seen way too many threads of injectors running over 95% even over 100% iono how thats possible.

well we only have shell 92 on the west coast so maybe that's better than the 93 :). actually i plugged enginuity in & it's still at an iam of 15 so doubt it has helped much. chevron will be next...the last few tanks were 76. or maybe costco or arco should be next? haha!

it is indeed a 3rd gear log. i dont dare do a 4th.

just because people run at 100% idc doesnt mean it's good...i'd rather lose a little power and have money to spend on things other than a new engine! i know what you mean though--i'm sure subaru has plenty of leeway built into the thing. we all have our comfort levels i guess.

-scott

Make sure you have a clean fuel filter.

I believe when I was dyno tuned, my filter was clogged.

I am a bit surprised at a target boost of 15.47 psi you are out of fuel.

My '03 didn't max out the injectors until 18-19 psi in 3rd gear at 6500 rpm+, and that was on a clogged fuel filter.

Patrick

did a couple more logging runs. all in all i'm happier with these logs. the idc is still on the high side, but not crazily so, and i rarely get up over 6k in daily driving anyway. it was slightly warmer, so that may have something to do with it, but i have a feeling the map has more miles on it now, and it may like the shell gas better than the 76 i got from a sketch station right off i-5. i'll probably try chevron next.

first run:

Time rpm el fbkc flkc iam it idc kca mrp maf wgdc toa TDC mph afc afl ct iat
0 2028 0.17 0 0 15 13.5 2.6 0 -10.59 12.98 0 8.24 3 29 0 4.83 189 46
302 2096 0.87 0 0.35 15 31 12.07 0 -0.29 43.08 5.88 100 3 28 -2.34 4.35 189 46
605 2057 1 0 0.35 15 35 13.61 8 0.58 35.89 20.78 100 3 29 0 3.91 189 46
909 2171 1.07 0 0.35 15 31.5 14.82 8 1.6 39.98 36.08 100 3 29 0 1.76 189 46
1214 2258 1.12 0 -2.46 15 26 16.37 5 2.76 42.59 47.84 100 3 29 0 1.76 189 46
1517 2333 1.19 0 -2.46 15 22 17.92 5 3.48 47.65 62.75 100 3 30 0 1.76 189 46
1823 2404 1.28 0 -2.46 15 18 20 5 4.5 53.34 74.9 100 3 30 0 1.46 189 46
2127 2500 1.35 0 0.35 15 19.5 21.16 8 5.66 57.77 89.41 100 3 31 0 1.03 189 46
2429 2584 1.45 0 0.35 15 19 23.71 8 6.53 64.85 81.18 100 3 31 0 -1.27 189 46
2733 2726 1.57 0 0.35 15 18.5 26.75 8 7.84 74.08 80.39 100 3 34 0 -1.27 189 46
3037 2813 1.72 0 0.35 15 18.5 31.81 8.5 9.14 83.47 80.39 100 3 35 0 -1.27 189 46
3344 2960 1.87 0 0.35 15 17.5 37.89 8.5 11.32 94.14 80.39 100 3 35 0 -1.27 189 46
3645 3098 2.01 0 0.35 15 15.5 43.62 8 13.2 105.42 80.39 100 3 37 0 -1.27 189 46
3949 3221 2.06 0 0.35 15 14 46.73 7 14.07 113.6 80.39 100 2.32 40 0 -1.27 189 46
4252 3375 2.1 0 -0.7 15 14 50.4 6 14.22 118.35 80.39 100 2.2 40 0 -1.27 189 46
4556 3534 2.16 0 -0.7 15 11.5 53.7 5.5 14.36 128.18 80.39 100 1.99 43 0 -1.27 189 46
4863 3678 2.16 0 -0.7 15 12 58.06 5.5 14.22 133.57 80.39 100 2.11 46 0 -1.27 189 46
5164 3809 2.16 0 -0.7 15 12.5 59.31 5.5 14.22 140.01 80.39 100 2.06 46 0 -1.27 189 46
5469 3978 2.14 0 -0.7 15 13 59.47 5.5 14.07 141.81 80.39 100 2.06 49 0 -1.27 189 46
5772 4096 2.15 0 -0.7 15 13 64.66 5.5 14.07 144.54 80.39 100 2.95 52 0 -1.27 189 46
6075 4280 2.16 0 0 15 14 67.57 6.5 14.07 151.24 80.39 100 2.02 52 0 -1.27 189 46
6384 4396 2.17 0 0 15 14.5 70.34 6.5 14.07 162.6 80.39 100 1.97 55 0 -1.27 189 46
6684 4554 2.19 0 0 15 15.5 73.83 7 14.07 165.21 80.39 100 1.73 55 0 -1.27 189 46
6990 4667 2.22 0 0 15 16 77.65 8 14.36 173.78 80.39 100 1.39 58 0 -1.27 189 46
7295 4804 2.24 0 0 15 17 81.99 8.5 14.65 177.97 80 100 1.04 61 0 -1.27 189 45
7598 4931 2.26 0 0 15 18 85.2 8 14.8 184.75 78.04 100 0.89 61 0 -1.27 189 45
7900 5098 2.26 0 0 15 17.5 88.1 7 14.51 190.61 76.86 100 1.31 64 0 -1.27 189 45
8206 5219 2.22 0 0 15 19 89.07 7 14.36 193.98 75.29 100 1.33 67 0 -1.27 189 45
8509 5330 2.2 0 0 15 19.5 89.83 7.5 13.93 198.46 75.29 100 1.31 67 0 -1.27 189 45
8814 5466 2.15 0 0 15 20.5 90.06 8 13.2 195.47 75.29 100 1.64 70 0 -1.27 189 45
9119 5597 2.13 0 0 15 21 90.74 8 13.06 197.8 75.29 100 1.73 73 0 -1.27 189 45
9422 5734 2.13 0 0 15 22.5 92.96 8 13.06 203 75.29 100 1.62 73 0 -1.27 189 45
9725 5841 2.11 0 0 15 23 93.46 7.5 12.91 207.8 75.29 100 1.52 76 0 -1.27 189 45
10028 5919 2.08 0 0 15 23.5 93.45 7 12.62 209.8 75.29 100 1.48 78 0 -1.27 189 45
10332 6024 2.07 0 0 15 23.5 95.1 7 12.77 208.6 75.29 100 1.31 78 0 -1.27 187 45
10633 6132 2.04 0 0 15 24 95.5 7.5 12.62 211.4 75.29 100 1.27 81 0 -1.27 187 45
10939 6318 2.02 0 0 15 26 97.05 8 12.62 212.2 74.51 100 1.1 83 0 -1.27 187 45
11244 6318 1.99 0 0 15 27 95.7 8 12.62 212.2 74.51 100 0.89 83 0 -1.27 187 45
11548 6421 1.96 0 0 15 27 97.26 8.5 12.77 210.2 74.51 100 0.66 86 0 -1.27 185 45
11867 6499 1.94 0 0 15 27.5 97.05 8.5 12.91 212.2 74.51 100 0.54 86 0 -1.27 183 45
12157 6660 1.92 0 0 15 28.5 96.62 9 12.91 208.6 74.51 100 0.42 88 0 -1.27 183 45
12462 6726 1.9 0 0 15 28.5 97.58 9.5 12.91 210.6 74.51 100 0.31 89 0 -1.27 181 45
12765 6818 1.86 0 0 15 29.5 97.45 9.5 12.91 209.8 74.51 100 0 89 0 -1.27 180 45
13068 6830 1.85 0 0 15 30.5 94.71 9.5 12.91 210.2 74.51 100 0.24 91 0 -1.27 178 45
13373 6900 1.82 0 0 15 30.5 97.14 9 12.91 211.8 74.51 100 0 93 0 -1.27 178 45
13676 6970 1.8 0 0 15 30.5 96.65 9 12.91 210.6 74.51 100 0 93 0 -1.27 176 45
13979 6938 1.73 0 0 15 29.5 91.76 8 12.62 207.4 65.1 0 0 95 0 -1.27 174 45



2nd run:

Time rpm el fbkc flkc iam it idc kca mrp maf wgdc toa TDC mph afc afl ct iat
0 2024 0.94 0 0 15 33 11.66 3.5 -0.15 4.39 0 0 3 29 0 0.29 190 48
303 2074 1.02 0 0 15 34 14.16 7.5 1.02 35.03 9.02 100 3 29 0 1.9 198 48
610 2158 1.1 0 0 15 29.5 15.2 7.5 2.32 36.74 20.78 100 3 28 0 1.46 198 48
912 2235 1.16 0 -2.81 15 23.5 16.21 4.5 3.34 39.84 36.08 100 3 28 0 -0.59 198 48
1217 2325 1.23 0 -2.81 15 20 17.85 4.5 4.5 44.55 50.98 100 3 29 0 -0.59 198 48
1520 2398 1.34 0 -2.81 15 18.5 19.95 7 5.37 46.15 62.75 100 3 30 0 -0.59 198 48
1824 2478 1.43 0 -0.7 15 17 22.2 7 6.67 55.15 78.04 100 3 30 0 -1.27 198 48
2127 2577 1.54 0 -0.7 15 16.5 25.29 8 8.13 59.97 87.84 100 3 32 0 -1.27 198 48
2434 2702 1.67 0 0.35 15 17.5 28.82 8 9.29 66.61 81.18 100 3 34 0 -1.27 196 48
2736 2832 1.85 0 0.35 15 16.5 35.04 8.5 11.17 76.95 81.18 100 3 34 0 -1.27 196 48
3042 2933 1.98 0 0.35 15 15 39.42 8 13.2 90.74 81.18 100 3 36 0 -1.27 196 48
3346 3071 2.06 0 0.35 15 14 43.89 7 14.36 97.33 81.18 100 3 39 0 -1.27 196 48
3650 3227 2.06 0 0.35 15 14 47.5 7 14.51 105.77 81.18 100 2.09 39 0 -1.27 196 48
3953 3380 2.08 0 0.35 15 13.5 49.17 7 14.36 111.05 81.18 100 1.88 41 0 -1.27 196 48
4257 3514 2.12 0 0.35 15 12.5 53.23 6 14.22 118.08 81.18 100 1.97 41 0 -1.27 196 48
4560 3637 2.13 0 -0.35 15 12 55.86 6 14.07 125.91 81.18 100 2.13 44 0 -1.27 196 48
4863 3755 2.14 0 -0.35 15 12.5 58.48 6 14.07 132.43 81.18 100 2.2 47 0 -1.27 196 48
5167 3908 2.14 0 -0.35 15 13 60.03 6 14.22 135.59 81.18 100 2.16 47 0 -1.27 196 46
5473 4026 2.11 0 -0.35 15 13 61.83 6 14.22 140.03 81.18 100 1.04 50 0 -1.27 196 46
5776 4157 2.12 0 -0.35 15 14 63.86 6.5 14.07 141.08 81.18 100 1.95 53 0 -1.27 196 46
6080 4293 2.15 0 0 15 14 67.77 6.5 13.93 148.19 81.18 100 2.04 53 0 -1.27 196 46
6383 4412 2.19 0 0 15 14.5 70.58 7 13.93 155.43 81.18 100 2.13 56 0 -1.27 196 46
6686 4596 2.17 0 0 15 15.5 74.51 7.5 14.22 162.6 80.39 100 1.85 58 0 -1.27 194 46
6992 4688 2.17 0 0 15 16 77 8 14.51 165.68 80.39 100 1.55 58 0 -1.27 194 46
7297 4876 2.18 0 0 15 16.5 80.61 8.5 14.51 173.09 80.39 100 1.25 62 0 -1.27 194 46
7599 4993 2.2 0 0 15 17 83.08 8 14.36 176.58 80 100 1.27 64 0 -1.27 194 46
7903 5071 2.2 0 0 15 17.5 85.46 7 14.07 185.38 78.43 100 1.35 64 0 -1.27 194 46
8206 5183 2.19 0 0 15 18 87.35 7 13.93 187.62 76.86 100 1.55 67 0 -1.27 194 46
8510 5319 2.17 0 0 15 19 88.51 7 13.78 190.24 75.29 100 1.83 67 0 -1.27 194 46
8813 5435 2.13 0 0 15 20 88.12 8 13.49 193.6 75.29 100 1.55 70 0 -1.27 194 46
9119 5584 2.12 0 0 15 21 90.54 8 13.2 194.72 75.29 100 1.73 73 0 -1.27 194 46
9421 5690 2.11 0 0 15 21.5 92.26 8 13.06 196.22 75.29 100 1.46 73 0 -1.27 194 46
9756 5805 2.08 0 0 15 22.5 92.88 7.5 12.91 201.85 75.29 100 1.52 75 0 -1.27 194 46
10029 5905 2.07 0 0 15 22.5 93.22 7 12.77 200.73 75.29 100 1.35 78 0 -1.27 194 46
10333 6024 2.05 0 0 15 23.5 93.81 7 12.77 205.8 75.29 100 1.38 78 0 -1.27 194 46
10640 6178 2.03 0 0 15 24 96.2 7.5 12.77 207 75.29 100 1.19 80 0 -1.27 192 45
10943 6244 2.01 0 0 15 26 95.92 7.5 12.62 207.4 75.29 100 1.12 83 0 -1.27 192 45
11245 6302 1.97 0 0 15 27 95.46 8 12.77 207.8 75.29 100 1.06 83 0 -1.27 192 45
11551 6410 1.94 0 0 15 27 94.36 8 12.77 210.2 75.29 100 1 85 0 -1.27 192 45
11854 6482 1.92 0 0 15 27 95.42 9 12.91 205.8 75.29 100 0.71 87 0 -1.27 190 45
12157 6660 1.9 0 0 15 29 96.62 9 12.91 207 75.29 100 0.52 87 0 -1.27 190 45
12464 6732 1.87 0 0 15 29.5 97.66 9.5 12.91 209 75.29 100 0.43 89 0 -1.27 189 45
12765 6812 1.85 0 0 15 30 97.36 9.5 12.91 211 75.29 100 0.37 91 0 -1.27 189 45
13069 6880 1.83 0 0 15 30.5 96.88 9.5 12.91 211.16 75.29 100 0 91 0 -1.27 187 45
13375 6951 1.79 0 0 15 30 96.38 9 12.91 209.8 75.29 100 0.28 93 0 -1.27 187 45
13678 6976 1.79 0 0 15 30 96.74 9 13.06 211.4 75.29 100 0 93 0 -1.27 185 45
13981 6906 1.71 0 0 15 30 88.4 8 12.91 210.2 75.29 100 0 94 0 -1.27 183 45


flkc is nothing to be worried about at that rpm, right? it's just the map has learned that it needs to dial back a bit at lower rpms? (sorry i'm still trying to understand everything!)
<continued>

<continue>
what i still don't like is the low mrp. here's a screenshot of my map.
http://rock925.com/c337/targetboost.jpg

think i need to check my wastegate arm? i'm not even seeing 15psi...

one other question: sounds like the lc-1 is the best wbo2 to get for enginuity purposes, right?

i'll replace the fuel filter. i'm sure it's the original, the car only has 30,000mi.

thanks!
-scott

I suggest reading some tuning guides or books.

You need to charge the Boost target, and wastegate tables to really change boost.

lc1 is nice, but ive had nothing but problems with mine. It's been at innovative for 2+ weeks now.

Yes tighten the wastegate arm a few turns and log. While I used one of ev8siv maps for stage 1 on my car, I didn't like his targets of 16.4 psi on the stock dowpipe. I dialed it back to 15.6 to be safe. I ran the map for 6+ months and did a compression test and all the numbers were rock solid in the 140s. From the logs, it looks like the map is pretty safe on your car... I wouldn't worry about the IDCs. But keep logging, that is always a good thing.

Isn't the FLKC still bad because it is detecting knock?

I am learning too...I thought all knock was a bad thing. Like the column should be zeros...

What is IDC?

Patrick

IDC is Injector Duty Cycle. in effect how close to capacity the injector is getting. you really dont want to be at 100% because after that the injector is unable to provide additional fuel but the turbo is still pushing additional oxygen in there. that'll lead to a lean condition and eventually melt some part of your engine.

there has been discussion that you can run over 100% IDC, and some people see that on their logs, but IMHO it's just really not a good idea to get up there.

as the air temp cools down, the air becomes denser and you can pack ever more into the cylinder. that means you need some overhead on IDC at normal temperatures for your area, so that when it is cold out you don't go >100%.

i dont feel comfortable enough discussing FLKC, so someone should give both of us a good overview of what it is :)

-scott

You can bump up the base fuel pressure,rescale the injectors and end up with some extra headroom for free.

IDC is Injector Duty Cycle. in effect how close to capacity the injector is getting. you really dont want to be at 100% because after that the injector is unable to provide additional fuel but the turbo is still pushing additional oxygen in there. that'll lead to a lean condition and eventually melt some part of your engine.

there has been discussion that you can run over 100% IDC, and some people see that on their logs, but IMHO it's just really not a good idea to get up there.

as the air temp cools down, the air becomes denser and you can pack ever more into the cylinder. that means you need some overhead on IDC at normal temperatures for your area, so that when it is cold out you don't go >100%.

i dont feel comfortable enough discussing FLKC, so someone should give both of us a good overview of what it is :)

-scott

Ah yeah...thanks.

Patrick

Just an FYI. I hit 106% DC this morning and AFRs started to drift toward 12.5:1. I let off. ;)