Does anyone know the maximum amount of timing the engine/equipment can handle? I notice that the stock map has a max of 42.XX so I have not gone over that, but I find my car wanting more than this in certain areas...Can I keep going?

To answer this question you need to understand what the timing is actually doing.

In simplistic form:

The ideal is for the explosive force to occur just after TDC but the spark takes time to create this full combustion. Hence giving it some advance to give it time to ignite fully.

If this explosion happens too early the piston will still be travelling upwards and will cause det, too late and the piston will be 'running away' from the force of the explosion so the power will be wasted.

With std pump fuel you will find approx 25 degree (depending on compression, fuel and other factors) of total timing advance at high revs to give the fuel time to ignite for the piston to go past TDC. At lower revs, this advance will need to be less (maybe 14 degrees at 4000) for the same time to elapse.

Timing on low load sites such as the 42 degrees you mention is more about emissions than power.

I'm more concerned with low loads(less than 1.13g/rev) and mid RPM(2800-5000).

Are you saying 42 is too low or too high for more power? I have tried to drop it, but it turns into a little FBKC monster. maybe I need to go more...but the EGT's go higher quicker.

Have you logged to see how many time to see you are in the 2800-5000 at low loads?

That is part throttle / closed loop / cruise mapping.

There is another thread in here about timing on cruise and most of us seem to run 39-42 degrees of timing there but I really dont spend too much time on this area apart from to make sure it is running . Power is higher up the load range and in open loop and certainly not at 42 degrees of timing.

Have you logged to see how many time to see you are in the 2800-5000 at low loads?

That is part throttle / closed loop / cruise mapping.

There is another thread in here about timing on cruise and most of us seem to run 39-42 degrees of timing there but I really dont spend too much time on this area apart from to make sure it is running . Power is higher up the load range and in open loop and certainly not at 42 degrees of timing.

yes, everytime I drive the car I log.

I guess 42 is the max for now.

I run 58 degrees of timing at cruise...

I run 58 degrees of timing at cruise...

interesting.

what kind of load do you see?

.22 .40 .54 .70 1.0
800 15.86 22.54 22.54 21.13 14.45
1200 27.11 39.06 33.09 28.16 17.61
1600 36.95 47.50 42.23 38.01 26.40
2000 45.04 54.88 51.72 48.91 30.97
2400 45.04 55.94 58.05 55.94 35.54
2800 45.04 54.18 56.99 54.88 34.84
3200 45.04 51.02 52.07 52.42 36.25
3600 45.04 47.85 49.26 50.66 37.30
4000 45.04 46.80 47.85 47.85 38.36
4400 45.04 45.74 45.74 45.74 39.41
4800 45.04 45.04 45.04 45.04 39.41
5200 45.04 43.98 43.98 43.98 39.41
5600 45.04 43.98 43.98 42.93 39.41
6000 45.04 43.98 43.98 42.93 39.41
6400 45.04 43.98 43.98 42.93 39.76
6800 45.04 43.98 43.98 42.93 40.46
I arrived at this after a lot of logging with my car. Your car may vary...

Interesting...

Columns below 1.0 have 0 advance. I forgot to include 7200 rpm:
.22 .40 .54 .70 1.0
800 15.86 22.54 22.54 21.13 14.45
1200 27.11 39.06 33.09 28.16 17.61
1600 36.95 47.50 42.23 38.01 26.40
2000 45.04 54.88 51.72 48.91 30.97
2400 45.04 55.94 58.05 55.94 35.54
2800 45.04 54.18 56.99 54.88 34.84
3200 45.04 51.02 52.07 52.42 36.25
3600 45.04 47.85 49.26 50.66 37.30
4000 45.04 46.80 47.85 47.85 38.36
4400 45.04 45.74 45.74 45.74 39.41
4800 45.04 45.04 45.04 45.04 39.41
5200 45.04 43.98 43.98 43.98 39.41
5600 45.04 43.98 43.98 42.93 39.41
6000 45.04 43.98 43.98 42.93 39.41
6400 45.04 43.98 43.98 42.93 39.76
6800 45.04 43.98 43.98 42.93 40.46
7200 45.04 43.98 43.98 42.93 41.17

Columns below 1.0 have 0 advance. I forgot to include 7200 rpm:
.22 .40 .54 .70 1.0
800 15.86 22.54 22.54 21.13 14.45
1200 27.11 39.06 33.09 28.16 17.61
1600 36.95 47.50 42.23 38.01 26.40
2000 45.04 54.88 51.72 48.91 30.97
2400 45.04 55.94 58.05 55.94 35.54
2800 45.04 54.18 56.99 54.88 34.84
3200 45.04 51.02 52.07 52.42 36.25
3600 45.04 47.85 49.26 50.66 37.30
4000 45.04 46.80 47.85 47.85 38.36
4400 45.04 45.74 45.74 45.74 39.41
4800 45.04 45.04 45.04 45.04 39.41
5200 45.04 43.98 43.98 43.98 39.41
5600 45.04 43.98 43.98 42.93 39.41
6000 45.04 43.98 43.98 42.93 39.41
6400 45.04 43.98 43.98 42.93 39.76
6800 45.04 43.98 43.98 42.93 40.46
7200 45.04 43.98 43.98 42.93 41.17

Is yours a 2litre wagon?

2.0L w/ 147,000+ miles on it.

have you done any compression checks lately?

what is the response like over stock? this is confirming that my car wants more, or will atleast run with more....I thought I was on the edge a few days ago becasue of FLKC being almost nothing with cold IAT...I thought it would ping like a mother when it went up 20 degrees...but nothing. it wants more :)

My last compression test came up clean. Also, notice how rapidly the timing drops off as I reach a load of 1.0. At no point do I have abnormally high timing under boost.

I actually based this map off one of the newer 2.5 maps. I noticed that it had much more timing in the cruise area than the earlier years so I tried that on my car. It responded well, so I added more timing. My exhaust is free flowing and I have 1 step colder plugs so you may not be able to go as high. I'm also running 15.3 AFR in closed loop.

My last compression test came up clean. Also, notice how rapidly the timing drops off as I reach a load of 1.0. At no point do I have abnormally high timing under boost.

I actually based this map off one of the newer 2.5 maps. I noticed that it had much more timing in the cruise area than the earlier years so I tried that on my car. It responded well, so I added more timing. My exhaust is free flowing and I have 1 step colder plugs so you may not be able to go as high. I'm also running 15.3 AFR in closed loop.

what kind of EGTs are you getting in closed loop?

My last compression test came up clean. Also, notice how rapidly the timing drops off as I reach a load of 1.0. At no point do I have abnormally high timing under boost.

I actually based this map off one of the newer 2.5 maps. I noticed that it had much more timing in the cruise area than the earlier years so I tried that on my car. It responded well, so I added more timing. My exhaust is free flowing and I have 1 step colder plugs so you may not be able to go as high. I'm also running 15.3 AFR in closed loop.

that's probably because the 2.5L motor NEEDS more timing.

running leaner than stoich will require more timing as well, but i've never seen anyone run as much as you. have you checked to see if it's actually making more power/getting better fuel economy?

also, why not run any advance so that it can pull timing if there is any fine learning knock correction?

Fuel economy tests showed an improvement. The peak of the timing is right around 55 mph steady cruise. EGT's are around 1275F 6" from the ports.

As for no advance below 1.0 load, I was getting a lot of false knock from my noisy engine (it's got good compression but it is old) and solid endlinks. If it's knocking at load that low, then I've got other problems...

also, why not run any advance so that it can pull timing if there is any fine learning knock correction?

because you put unnecessary strain on the bottom end. also, knock learning isn't active below a certain load. you could be doing awful things to your motor and the ecu wouldn't stop you.

because you put unnecessary strain on the bottom end. also, knock learning isn't active below a certain load. you could be doing awful things to your motor and the ecu wouldn't stop you.

you can change the load point...but looking back, i was confussed, so nevermind