STU, BSP, ESP and most of DS have their own thread. It only seems fair :)

I tried to get a bunch of the relevant threads together here for newbies and such:

Rules: If it doesn't say you can, you can't

The Rules Sticky: Auto-X Rules: Read This First
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174189

STX General:

How would you do STX? (general advice thread)
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=822374&highlight=stx

Help me setup the STX Wagon!
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1111819&highlight=clarification

Listing of *ALL* STX legal mods with subjective priorities
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1181271

Tires:

235-40/17 vs 245-40/17 STX
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1314514&highlight=stx

Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R vs Yoko Advan Neova AD07s for STX
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=992127&highlight=stx

RE01R vs. Advan Neova
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1283791

Power mods:

STX, boost maps, dyno tuning, etc (STX-legal dyno plots as well as power discussion)
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=747498&highlight=stx

STX Power
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1396280&highlight=stx

How STX legal map makes power?
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1385632&highlight=stx

The Great Exhaust Clarification Debacle of 2007:

August clarification: ST* - the Throwdown - 2007
http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/255144.aspx

September Fastrack posted online - ST news
http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/259938.aspx

NASIOC clarification thread:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1309156&highlight=clarification

Post-clarification exhaust setup database:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1364415

Quest for STX-legal WRX:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1336541&highlight=stx

ST* - emissions legal or not?
http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/278185.aspx

Suspension setup:

STX swaybar and spring rate data
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1050075&highlight=stx

WRX in STX (flipping coilover springs question)
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=767766&highlight=stx

Faster with a stiffer front swaybar?
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=631444&page=2&highlight=jic

More camber, less stopping power?
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=849096&highlight=pyrometer

Other:

What essential go fast STX mod would you buy?
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=994978&highlight=stx



Also I figure folks can post their setups here and ask general setup questions like in the STU thread. Hope it's helpful. I will post mine at some point :)

john

Our setup is pretty much still what is listed on the teamsoloracer.com site. http://www.teamsoloracer.com/drivers/pjcroy.php It hasn't been updated in a while but the basics are there. Car is still for sale if anyone is interested in an essentially fully prepped nationally competitve car rather than doing the development themselves. Buy it for the cost of the car and less than 1/4 of the parts cost. :)

STX setup- Buy a really fast 1991 Honda Hatch Si, install front LSD, and win.

1/4 of the cost, just don't go to pro's

89's are lighter

awesome thread, john

My car's pretty much good to go felt great at the subaru challenge (#1 in pax), but I'm still working on getting it to comply to this emissions bull****.

K&N Typhoon short ram
Vibrant header and uppipe combo, coated inside/out and wrapped
Prodrive downpipe
Prodrive 3rd cat delete
straight pipe

BC Racing non-inverted coilovers 10K front/12K rear
Whiteline 24 MM front sway
Steering rack bushings
Goodridge stainless brake lines


17x8 Rota Boost with 245/40/17 RE01-R's
Hawker Odyssey Battery - PC 535

Alignment

-3.0 camber front
absolute 0 in the rear
Toe = I don't know.

Upcoming changes
-Emissions bull**** experimentation
-Hawk HP+ pads
-New rear rotors


That's really about it.

STX setup- Buy a really fast 1991 Honda Hatch Si, install front LSD, and win.

1/4 of the cost, just don't go to pro's

You stole that from Hoppe. It's in the second link :lol:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=822374&highlight=stx

How would you do STX?

91 Civic, STS mods, high flow cat, slip.

You have a 2005 WRX and a fairly decent budget.

doh!

-K&N Typhoon
-Intake hose
-parts bin turbo
-equal length header
-good downpipe with high flow
-straightpipe
-ECUtek

-swaybars/endlinks
-Koni double setup with custom housings/camber plates
-pimpy rear lateral links
-pimpy big brake kit thats lighter then stock with carbotech pads

-seats
-lightweight battery
-light 17x8 with your choice of 245/35/17
-seat time

-Tom

yes- we definitely deserve our own thread- thanks for doing so!

I've started on my "quest" for a STX legal exhaust- gutted my oe uppipe (the STi one I have now has no provision for the egt) today- not the most fun two hours I've had :)

Heard from several folks that the Prodrive catted downpipe on it's own will prevent the P0420, so I bought a used one (it's off to SwainTech) will be teamed w/ a Prodrive de-catted center pipe (fingers crossed)

I'm thinking about about a short turn down to bolt on for events- good idea????

stock air box w/ STi panel filter-> Samco MAF hose->Samco turbo inlet

My STX map could probably be improved, sounds like TopSpeed is highly thought of

Currently on SA Koni's w/ Tarmac springs (6/5k) and RCE front/GrP N rears- it's nice for a daily driver, but I hope to firm things up a bit probably 8/7k- looking at DA AST's, also looking at zzyzx's new EM's- I don't see myself in 10+k for some reason :)

current alignment is -2.8/-1.5 (caster is ~ .5 more + than oe) toe ~ 2mm out f/r, will probably try and go a little higher in front -3.2 ish

ride height is 355 front/345 rear (this is a wagon- so ~ 30mm lower than stock)

27mm WL front sway bar/22mm rear, Poltec sway links front/rear

Grp N pitch/engine/tranny/rear diff mounts, transverse/lateral/trailing bushings

Brakes are FHI 4/2 pots w/ Ferodo 2500's, if I can free up some $ am considering a lighter BBK up front

Wheels are Enkei ES Tarmacs 17x8 and just found a set of Neovas in 235/40/17, for "summer" daily driving Enkei RC-T4's 17x8 wrapped w/ undetermined tire- possibly Advan Sports

Would like to shed a few lbs w/ seats, just need to find that $ tree :D

I'm still working on the STX legal exhaust. I opted for a full APS turboback. I need to get back to my local shop and have them turn the CEL's back on so I can see whether or not it throws a code. I also need to gut a stock uppipe and put that back in so I have an EGT probe.

Outside of that, the car is as follows:
Suspension:
Ground Control housings, Koni 8611 dampers, Swift 7kg/mm front springs, Eibach 500lb/in rear springs, GC front and rear camber/caster plates
Whiteline 22mm FSB, 24mm adjustable RSB (set at softest)
Kartboy front and rear endlinks
Alignment = -3.25deg / -0.5deg camber f/r, 1.8mm measured toe out f/r, ride height set at 13.75" / 13.25" f/r (distance from hub center to fender)

Engine / power:
APS short ram
Crucial P&P&C headers (will be changing to GrimmSpeed as they are the new sponsor)
Stock gutted uppipe (in process)
APS turboback
GFB underdrive pulleys
AP w/custom tune (working on getting Doug from TopSpeed to make a trip to the midwest)
Makes 195hp and 198ft-lbs at the wheels (~45 more than stock).

Driveline:
TiC rear diff bushings
Kartboy outrigger bushings
TiC tranny x-member bushings
GroupN tranny mount
Kartboy shifter and all bushings

Brakes:
Cobb / Stoptech 332x32 BBK
BHP XPS pads up front
Carbotech Panther + in back
Stoptech lines front, goodridge lines rear
Motul RBF600 fluid

Wheels / tires:
Enkei RPF-1 17x8 +45
Yokohama Advan Neova 235/40R17 shaved to 5/32" (may switch to Toyo R1R just to test them)
Rota Torque 17x8 +48
Yokohama Advan Neova 235/40R17 full depth (daily driver / wet weather tires)

Weight savings:
Sparco Evo L driver's seat (w/ sliders and mounts)
Braille B2015 lightweight battery (15lb all-season version)

Added weight:
Takata 4-pt harness
STi corner splitters
Gauges, sending units, and a dash pod
Extra power outlet run inside the dash and over to driver's side for GPS unit
Will likely be adding the weight of a Traqmate data acquisition system


Car weighed in at 3260lbs w/ driver last summer when I had it aligned and balanced. That was with a rather full tank of gas and a driver than was 30lbs heavier. Setup was good enough for 1st and the Peru Nat'l Tour and 2nd at the Toledo Pro.

For other information that people may find useful...

I talked to both Kumho and Toyo on the phone yesterday. The Ecsta XS is still in testing. They set the benchmark bar with the Advan Neova and say the XS is doing very well. Unfortunately it isn't due out to market until late summer so it not an option this solo season. Toyo said they only have 7 sizes of the R1R in production right now. A 245/35R17 is NOT one of those sizes. They do not have any testing results that they plan to share. The simply said they are leaving testing to outside sources so the results are unbiased. All I could get from them was that they are very proud of this tire and happy with how it turned out.

I will be sticking with a 235 for the year. I'm not sure whether or not I'll be going with Yokohama, Toyo, or Bridgestone though. Yokohama and Bridgestone have proven performance. Yokohama has not yet renewed their contingency program for this year so their tires are getting less affordable. Toyo matched Bridgestone's contingency so they are looking better. I might have to buy a set and head to a test and tune to compare them to my current Advans.

how are the Neovas at full tread for the wet?

the contingency pdf has a check off for Yokohama, I've got an email into them- hopefully they are (will) be on board???

yokohama contingency note:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=20775753&postcount=10

made it a part of the AutoX Sticky..:)

how are the Neovas at full tread for the wet?

the contingency pdf has a check off for Yokohama, I've got an email into them- hopefully they are (will) be on board???

Talked to Jenny White yesterday. She updated the forms and removed Yokohama as an option. If they are indeed going to have a contingency program then I might have to hold off on the forms until they are updated again. It would be nice to stay with Yokohama for the year as I only have 1 event on that shaved set and the full depth ones are still in the basement waiting to be mounted next summer. I might get by with only one new set for the year.


At full depth they are pretty good, but I happen to like the 'kook R-S2 better in wet weather. Tread pattern is very similar, but the softer sidewall is a little more forgiving on the wet surface. Then again, I did go play in the rain on 1/32" depth, old, heat-cycled Advans last summer and was quite impressed with how well they did. Hydroplaning is still hydroplaning, but it still didn't seem to push wide or spin with standing water in most corners of the course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KilnGfwCz0o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmRkj1Abe8A

^ monsoon :D

never got a response back from Yokohama, will call this time

^ monsoon :D

never got a response back from Yokohama, will call this time

Monsoon is about right. 6-8" of standing water in some areas and it only rained for 15 minutes! MI weather is just so fun :unamused:

My setup (as of the end of last year):
Koni 1198's valved for Ground Control, in Ground Control housings
400 lb/in Eibach ERS (front)
450 lb/in Eibach ERS (rear)
Ground Control top mount camber/caster plates (front)
STi Grp N strut tops (rear)
Whiteline 27mm front swaybar w/ Kartboy endlinks
Cobb 23ish mm rear swaybar w/ Kartboy endlinks
Cusco rear strut tower brace
Alignment: -3.5 f, -1.2 rear
Ride height: 14" front, 14" rear

Engine/power:
PDE solid uppipe
TurboXS stealthback w/ Scoobysport muffler
Borla header
Samco inlet hose
K&N Typhoon
STX ProTune: 237 whp, 232 ft/lb
Odyssey PC680 battery

Drivetrain:
STi short shifter
STi Grp N engine mounts
STi Grp N transmission mount
Kartboy shifter bushing
Whiteline steering rack bushings (meh)
Redline Lightweight Shockproof fluid

Wheels/tires
17x7.5 JDM Ver7 STi wheels w/ RE070's
17x8 Enkei ES-Tarmac w/ ... ?

Brakes
StopTech 328x28 BBK (front)
StopTech H6 rotors (rear)
Hawk HPS pads
Super Blue

Other:
Lots of STi Ver7 rice (headlights, door cards, rear seats, cluster, grill, fog covers)
Sparco Evo seats

I had the raw times to snag the last trophy spot at the DC Pro, but hit the last cone on the damned course (after the finish line, doh). The car is definitely a lot more capable than I am.

In July the car weighed 3025 lbs w/o driver. My goal for this year was to drop that at least 50 lbs, more if possible.

Changes planned for 2008:
-Switching from big-ass Wings West spoiler to wingless
-New set of 17x8 RPF-1's w/ Direzzas (street/rain)
-Some new tires for the ES-Tarmacs (Yokos? Toyos? Waiting as long as possible on this one)
-TurboXS one-off two-cat turboback
-Spring rate / swaybar / ride height / alignment changes TBD.

With the 2007 setup and the Cobb rear bar at full stiff the car was plenty neutral but I was getting a lot of wheelspin at corner exit than I was with the bar at full soft. I am thinking about going to 500# front, 550# rear, and then swapping to the Cobb front swaybar (something like 23mm and ~8 lbs lighter) and running the rear bar on full soft. Any tweaking from there would be done with the alignment.

I don't know if 100 lb/in is enough to make up for the decrease in swaybar size, and if it is enough, I don't know if it will actually fix the wheelspin problem. It seems like very smart people disagree on the issue of whether achieving roll stiffness with bars and achieving roll stiffness with springs work out to be the same in terms of wheel lift/wheelspin. Cheapest/simplest option is to leave it alone, of course, which isn't that bad.

john

My setup (as of the end of last year):
Koni 1198's valved for Ground Control, in Ground Control housings
400 lb/in Eibach ERS (front)
450 lb/in Eibach ERS (rear)
Ground Control top mount camber/caster plates (front)
STi Grp N strut tops (rear)
Whiteline 27mm front swaybar w/ Kartboy endlinks
Cobb 23ish mm rear swaybar w/ Kartboy endlinks
Cusco rear strut tower brace
Alignment: -3.5 f, -1.2 rear
Ride height: 14" front, 14" rear

Engine/power:
PDE solid uppipe
TurboXS stealthback w/ Scoobysport muffler
Borla header
Samco inlet hose
K&N Typhoon
STX ProTune: 237 whp, 232 ft/lb
Odyssey PC680 battery

Drivetrain:
STi short shifter
STi Grp N engine mounts
STi Grp N transmission mount
Kartboy shifter bushing
Whiteline steering rack bushings (meh)
Redline Lightweight Shockproof fluid

Wheels/tires
17x7.5 JDM Ver7 STi wheels w/ RE070's
17x8 Enkei ES-Tarmac w/ ... ?

Brakes
StopTech 328x28 BBK (front)
StopTech H6 rotors (rear)
Hawk HPS pads
Super Blue

Other:
Lots of STi Ver7 rice (headlights, door cards, rear seats, cluster, grill, fog covers)
Sparco Evo seats

I had the raw times to snag the last trophy spot at the DC Pro, but hit the last cone on the damned course (after the finish line, doh). The car is definitely a lot more capable than I am.

In July the car weighed 3025 lbs w/o driver. My goal for this year was to drop that at least 50 lbs, more if possible.

Changes planned for 2008:
-Switching from big-ass Wings West spoiler to wingless
-New set of 17x8 RPF-1's w/ Direzzas (street/rain)
-Some new tires for the ES-Tarmacs (Yokos? Toyos? Waiting as long as possible on this one)
-TurboXS one-off two-cat turboback
-Spring rate / swaybar / ride height / alignment changes TBD.

With the 2007 setup and the Cobb rear bar at full stiff the car was plenty neutral but I was getting a lot of wheelspin at corner exit than I was with the bar at full soft. I am thinking about going to 500# front, 550# rear, and then swapping to the Cobb front swaybar (something like 23mm and ~8 lbs lighter) and running the rear bar on full soft. Any tweaking from there would be done with the alignment.

I don't know if 100 lb/in is enough to make up for the decrease in swaybar size, and if it is enough, I don't know if it will actually fix the wheelspin problem. It seems like very smart people disagree on the issue of whether achieving roll stiffness with bars and achieving roll stiffness with springs work out to be the same in terms of wheel lift/wheelspin. Cheapest/simplest option is to leave it alone, of course, which isn't that bad.

john

What about tweaking what you already have. Like going to the soft setting on the rear bar or even a stock rear bar if you have it and adjusting tire pressure and or shock setting. Just a thought!:D

At one point I had -3.5 f, -.8 rear, 27mm front bar and 17mm rear bar (before I bought the Cobb) and it was well balanced - better than it was when I ended the year and without the wheelspin issues. I was running more rake than when I ended the year though. I guess with the bar at full soft (effectively 21mm I think) I could run a bit more rake or a little less camber in the rear and hopefully get the same effect.

One other thing is that I don't have independent height/preload adjustments so the only way I can run less camber in the rear is to raise the rear a little bit. But you're right, the smart thing is to try tweaking things before $$'ing :)

john

One other thing is that I don't have independent height/preload adjustments so the only way I can run less camber in the rear is to raise the rear a little bit. But you're right, the smart thing is to try tweaking things before $$'ing :)

john

Use some camber bolts....

I have rear camber bolts (sorry, let them off the mod list)

Hmm...well, I'm at 0 in the rear with my bolts....

My guess is that I could easily get less if I had something with independent height and preload adjustments. I might have to go to a shorter spring of the same rate in order to get the results I'm after.

what's the general consensus (I'm sure there is no consensus :)) on intakes for STX? power to be had? heat soak issues?

what's the general consensus (I'm sure there is no consensus :)) on intakes for STX? power to be had? heat soak issues?

I have one. I didn't do a before and after comparison to see whether or not it makes a big difference. I know a lot of the STX competition I've run against at national levels has had some form of short-ram or CAI. I don't think you're losing anything over stock with the heat soak. You are losing a couple pounds worth of plastic crap though. And you get to hear the turbo spool up and it makes you smile...well it at least makes me smile.

I'll have to re-delve into the whole intake thing :)

I think the K&N made a bit of an improvement with throttle response. And it makes some noise, which is cool I guess. It wouldn't be a top priority, but I think Hoppe/Biggly made some good power with a typhoon and an inlet hose.

How important do you think front endlinks are? I'm using my stock bar and stock endlinks right now.

How important do you think front endlinks are? I'm using my stock bar and stock endlinks right now.

not necessary. The factory ones are hard enough - metal.

^sedan- wagon gets mushy "dogbones"

How important do you think front endlinks are? I'm using my stock bar and stock endlinks right now.

Stockers work fine on the sedan until you break one. Then you'll find that the stockers cost more each than a set of aftermarkets do. Don't buy the Poltecs to replace them with, ours will need to be cut off if I want to take that front sway off since the bolts are rusted to uselessness.

Don't buy the Poltecs to replace them with, +1. My 27mm Whiteline snapped a Poltec clean in half :lol:

john

I've had good luck w/ Poltecs front and rear- did snap a oe sedan link when I was running aluminum arms, the Poltecs held up fine

we don't use any salt on our roads (but we do have plenty of snow packed and icy roads :D) maybe that's part of it?

what links are you running now?

Kartboys... 1 season down so far with no problems.

Stockers work fine on the sedan until you break one. Then you'll find that the stockers cost more each than a set of aftermarkets do. Don't buy the Poltecs to replace them with, ours will need to be cut off if I want to take that front sway off since the bolts are rusted to uselessness.

Do what? I don't pay but like $25/endlink for the stockers. :confused: Mine have been through years of Hoppe-ism, Rankins-time, and even the occasional semi-offroad excursion because of me. Not to mention the 110k total miles. :lol:

Where are you buying your stockers from and which aftermarkets are you buying? Next time I buy one (Ok, I've bought 1 in like 3.5 years...didn't actually need to really, but figured I would) I'll look at an aftermarket set if they really are that much better. :)

-Biggly

I think the K&N made a bit of an improvement with throttle response. And it makes some noise, which is cool I guess. It wouldn't be a top priority, but I think Hoppe/Biggly made some good power with a typhoon and an inlet hose.

I think it's the best design on the market (at least that I know about.) It is definitely better than the APS one that went into the fender well, where if your filter was dirty it necessitated jacking up the corner of the car, removing a wheel, and then removing the fender liner. The K&N definitely has an advantage there.

I have the graph somewhere, would have to dig it up. But after a retune and the new intake setup (silicon hose too by the way) it did show an improvement that was notable.

Throttle response on my car will suck as long as I have the prototype/hacked headers and the separate wastegate tube downpipe. Wastes way too much heat and doesn't keep the exhaust moving as well as it could. I wouldn't mind going to a 2.5" exhaust of some sort to be honest; I'd get throttle response back with no actual power loss in the band. The throttle response and drivability would do wonders for autox. :)

edit: As for now, I just get back on the gas a few minutes before each significant corner that I need to dig out of in order to compensate... :p

-Biggly

edit: As for now, I just get back on the gas a few minutes before each significant corner that I need to dig out of in order to compensate...

Damn dude... Either your courses are HUGE, or your lag is BAAAAD.... :)

Main Entry: hy·per·bo·le
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin, from Greek hyperbolē excess, hyperbole, hyperbola, from hyperballein to exceed, from hyper- + ballein to throw — more at devil
Date: 15th century
: extravagant exaggeration (as “mile-high ice-cream cones”)



Exaggeration for effect man. But yes, my lag is really pretty bad. :)

-Biggly

Oh Jesus Christ.

http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/283202.aspx

They want to let the E36 M3 into STX.

john

and the RX8 by several of the posters- geez :(

I don't know why, but I posted to that thread

Oh Jesus Christ.

http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/283202.aspx

They want to let the E36 M3 into STX.

john

OH just wait a damn John Wayne minuite......... are they nuts. SCCA f'ing it up for the fun again good friggin job.

Yeah... let's take probably the most diverse ST* class and jam an overdog into it after it's been on the exclusion list for several years. Something something rules stability something something.

Yeah... let's take probably the most diverse ST* class and jam an overdog into it after it's been on the exclusion list for several years. Something something rules stability something something.

But why.. really is there any real reason to ask the exclusion to end? Are these guys just board or something.

The story of 'oh they wont be dominant any more because of the wrx' is BBOOOOBOOOOO.. that car is so much more affordable and available now and already dominant in the higher classes.

OH just wait a damn John Wayne minuite......... are they nuts. SCCA f'ing it up for the fun again good friggin job.

For the record, this was not brought up by the SCCA. This is a discussion on SCCAForums(not affiliated with SCCA) by members who are merely thinking out loud. Too much wieght is put into these "what if?" disussions on web forums. If you are worried about it, write a quick letter to the SCCA and explain why you don"t think such an idea is appropriate.

It's okay, take a deep breath, the sky is not falling.

James

Okay, "they want to let" was perhaps a bit overdramatic.

It came pretty close to the apparent end of the latest emissions thread (http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/278185.aspx), where I still haven't seen anyone explain why the STS/2 cars can do something that the EPA clearly considers tampering, but the STX/U cars can't.

I'm not sure about "too much weight for what ifs" though, at least in this case. I would think that if the threads go well / don't go well it would definitely influence what the STAC ends up recommending.

john

If you intend to run any national events and hope to win any contingency money, the tire decision for STX just got simplified. With Yokohama not providing contingency money this season and Toyo not having a "legal" tire to even try out, all roads lead to Bridgestone.


Anyone want some Advans? I have two sets to unload.

If you intend to run any national events and hope to win any contingency money, the tire decision for STX just got simplified. With Yokohama not providing contingency money this season and Toyo not having a "legal" tire to even try out, all roads lead to Bridgestone.


Anyone want some Advans? I have two sets to unload.

interested....pm'ed you to keep this on topic

If you intend to run any national events and hope to win any contingency money, the tire decision for STX just got simplified. With Yokohama not providing contingency money this season and Toyo not having a "legal" tire to even try out, all roads lead to Bridgestone.


What's the issue with Toyo's tire?

To be legal a tire has to be available in 4 diameters and 6 sizes. Toyo R1R is only available in 3 diameters. Unless they release something in a 16" diameter before the end of April, the tire isn't legal.

To be legal a tire has to be available in 4 diameters and 6 sizes. Toyo R1R is available in 3 diameters and 7 sizes.

....or available as OEM on a vehicle. This made the Neova legal before it was available in the required sizes.

For the record, this was not brought up by the SCCA. This is a discussion on SCCAForums(not affiliated with SCCA) by members who are merely thinking out loud. Too much wieght is put into these "what if?" disussions on web forums. If you are worried about it, write a quick letter to the SCCA and explain why you don"t think such an idea is appropriate.

It's okay, take a deep breath, the sky is not falling.

James

Thanks James. The BMW drivers got waxed by Fenter ;) and now they want changes to level the playing field. They are pretty vocal, just go look at the thread on SCCAforums. Well written letters to seb@scca.com are what get considered by the advisory committees. Comments on the forums are generally considered noise. Any changes would first go out for member comment and then would possibly be considered for 2009. The rules are already in place for 2008.

I think the letter writing thing is BS....I've written my share. I believe the rulesmakers are gonna do whatever the hell they want.

Thanks James. The BMW drivers got waxed by Fenter ;) and now they want changes to level the playing field.

Which would be all fine and dandy if he didn't also kick the asses of all the other WRX drivers too!

I think the letter writing thing is BS....I've written my share. I believe the rulesmakers are gonna do whatever the hell they want.
Back in the day, I actually used to get log numbers :(

I sent the chairperson of the SEB an email about signing up to write the Auto-Doug software. I hope they let me.

john

To be legal a tire has to be available in 4 diameters and 6 sizes. Toyo R1R is only available in 3 diameters. Unless they release something in a 16" diameter before the end of April, the tire isn't legal.

13.3.F which you are referencing doesn't apply to ST tires. "Tires must meet the eligibility requirements of the Stock category (excluding 13.3.F), with the following additional restrictions" The Toyo will be perfectly legal as long as they actually are sold by April 30th.

I think some 1R1's are already being sold

http://www.aimtire.com/typ_category.asp?ObjectID=6650

For the record, this was not brought up by the SCCA. This is a discussion on SCCAForums(not affiliated with SCCA) by members who are merely thinking out loud. Too much wieght is put into these "what if?" disussions on web forums. If you are worried about it, write a quick letter to the SCCA and explain why you don"t think such an idea is appropriate.

It's okay, take a deep breath, the sky is not falling.
I thought the same thing about the emissions crap on SCCAForums last June. Up until it became instantly official in July.

Tire question:

how good are the Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1's compared to the almighty Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R?

I'm currently running falken azenis rt615s, and planned on getting bridgestones, but I can get a much better deal on a set of dunlops. however, i don't see hardly anyone running the dunlops, just the bridgestones and yokohamas.

anyone have any testing of the dunlops? any articles comparing all of the above tires?

tirerack did a test w/ all three- Dunlop fared well

I think after the first tour event there may be more info on the Dunlop

tirerack did a test w/ all three- Dunlop fared well

I think after the first tour event there may be more info on the Dunlop

good to know.

maybe i'll get 'em just to be different :banana:

Ok, to bring this thread back, I've got a tire pressure question. I've got KYB AGX/Prodrive springs, -1.3 camber f/r, and 225/45-17 Falken Fk-452 tires. For a starting point, I'm going to run 42 psi front, 39 psi rear.

Let's say I do my first run and I want the car to rotate better, it's understeering badly, where do I begin to adjust? (aside from how I'm driving) With 39 psi in the rears, should I reduce that pressure in order to get the back end to "roll" more. Or am I thinking in the wrong direction here?

I have heard of people both overinflating and underinflating their rears to change balance. I don't know that one of them is more right than the other.

That said, more camber in the front would definitely help :)

I'd go with more air(46lb.+), it's kinder to the sidewalls.

I'd go with more air(46lb.+), it's kinder to the sidewalls.

Really? Well I'll take an airtank and play with the pressures. I've got 3 autocrosses in the next 5 days, so I'll see what works best.

+1 for going up in pressure to help with rotation.

There's alot of things you could do but this is the cheapest and easiest. That's alot of rear camber working against you. It recovers more easily but it harder to intiate rotation.

I don't know anything about your tires but you could also try coming down in the front by a pound each run until they roll to far.

I think most, at least I, run lower in the front than the rear.

Yeah, I like more pressure in back than up front. It seems like when you do get the breakaway at the rear, it's more catchable that way (to me, at least).

Wow, this thread hasn't been touched all season :)

How many runs are people getting out of their Neovas? I had mine shaved to 4/32" and with 101 runs on them (did a test and tune today, approx 24 runs) they still have plenty of tread and still feel pretty damn fast. The inner shoulders on the fronts took a beating today though because I didn't flip them halfway through (dumb, but I'm lazy).

I really love these tires!

mine are in the 200 run range w/ 10,000 miles of daily driving (started full tread)- I screwed mine up early trying to run some toe out w/ -3.0 of camber up front (I got away w/ this at -2.3-ish)- might be doable on a "weekend" only car, but not on a daily driver.

other than the uneven wear the toe out caused, these are wearing well and more importantly still sticking well :)

too bad Yoko pulled their contingency this year

I really liked Yoks when you got tires with a recent build date.
My last couple sets (bought in late 07 and early 08) had 2005 build dates, the difference is definitely noticeable.

They're coming out w/ a new street tire to replace the Neova I hear- anyone else hear anything on it

Yeah - I have also heard there will be a "new Neova" and that this time around we stand a decent chance of getting the smaller than 17" sizes. For now it's just a rumor, tho :)

It already sounds expensive. :diaf:

well the Kumho XS is officially available now (tirerack) and I heard a rumor (unsubstantiated) that at recent San Diego event they did VERY good. Anyone else hear anything?

It's more than a rumor.

Here's Stephen Yeoh's blog of that event. Stephen finished 3rd in STS at Nationals this year. The Kumho was used by Ken Motonishi (2 time STS national champ) on his own STS Civic. This doesn't say anything about the tires, only that Ken on the Kumhos was faster than Stephen on the Bridgestones (but the blog mentions some compromises made to his car).

http://yeohbaby.blogspot.com/2008/08/can-you-hear-me-now.html

Ken also ran the Kumhos on his Civic at a Los Angeles area night event the week before. On a 32-33 second course, he was only 0.1 seconds off from my STX time.

What size was he on?

215/45-16 at the night event. Not sure if he used those at the San Diego event, too.

well that's promising :)

I do know that what sometimes works for the lighter cars, doesn't always work for our beasts

hopefully there will be a few more reports from the "sunny places" over the winter :D

For anyone who hasn't stumbled into the Project Car forum, I have been documenting the last couple years worth of tweaks here (I'm still slow though):
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1594875

Criticism, profanity, etc all appreciated.

Hmm, curious as to how you guys have your cars setup for 2009 stx.

Hmm, curious as to how you guys have your cars setup for 2009 stx.

Pretty much the same as 2008. Waiting for the results from the first couple Tours, make a tire decision then and then start working on any changes needed.

Hmm, curious as to how you guys have your cars setup for 2009 stx.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1594875

No big changes, other than Greg's magic camber plates and new tires.

Bump! Move me to autocross :p

Well I guess I'll make my first post in this thread. Just got back from the Metro NY PCA autox down at Nassau Coliseum. This was my second ever autox in my STX WRX.

I'm not sure if anybody is familiar with their classing system for non Porsches , but I think it's pretty dumb. X1 is under 2 liters, X2 is 2-3.5 liters and X3 is 3.5 liters and above. Any kind of forced induction bumps you up a class. So I, with my stock motor WRX, was bumped to X3 with the Vettes and my cousin, with his built FD, was in X2 :mad: but whatever, it ain't the world championship.

The course could basically be divided into three columns, with three turnarounds. One of the more interesting features of the course was a "super slalom". One whole run down to a turnaround was a slalom! probably a good 100 or more yards of slalom. It was an alrite course, too many cones to hit tho, haha.

It was HOT in New York today. It easily hit 90-95 out there on the tarmac, so no rear issues with warming up the car after the first run. This was my first event with my WL camber plates. I was excited to dial in 3.5 degrees neg camber, but alas, the bottom plate wouldn't move. I didn't feel like messing with it before I even got any runs in, so I just shut the hood and got out there. First run was just a warmup. Second run I went off course (should have payed attention during the warmup lol) third run was basically another warmup. Now I felt pretty confident in the course at this point and I began to push a bit. Coming into the first turnaround, the car began to understear. Alot. Like, I was at full left lock and the car was still understearing.

Maybe I went in a bit too hot, eh? :lol:

So then the front tires finally caught grip about 15 yards before the next gate. While I was at full lock. Not a good situation. I probably owe a corner worker or two a new pair of pants. This happened at every turnaround.

So this was the first time I really experienced anything like this with my car. I was confused. I felt like she let me down. She had never acted this way. She always did exactly as I had asked, but now...I didn't know what to think. But there comes a time in every relationship when one must examine oneself and say...maybe...just maybe...its me. And I realized that this time, it was me.

I spent the whole rest of the day repeating the old adage slow in, fast out whenever I came to a turnaround. And, by the end of the day, it worked. During my second to last run, the rear end actually got loose a bit coming out of the first turnaround. I was able to carry so much more speed through the rest of the course when I went slow in and fast out.

I finished 10th in class, but it was an awesome experience. Can't wait to get out there next time.

And I did get the camber plates to slide. I think the extra camber really did help.

I'm not sure if anybody is familiar with their classing system for non Porsches , but I think it's pretty dumb. X1 is under 2 liters, X2 is 2-3.5 liters and X3 is 3.5 liters and above. Any kind of forced induction bumps you up a class. So I, with my stock motor WRX, was bumped to X3 with the Vettes and my cousin, with his built FD, was in X2 :mad: but whatever, it ain't the world championship.FWIW, technically, the engine is 1994 cc, slightly under 2 liters :p

I agree that the classing system at Porsche (and BMW) events for Subarus is not all that great.

Like, I was at full left lock and the car was still understearing.
This is a common thing when you are starting out - adding too much steering input, gas, or both, when the car is already plowing. At this point you need to use less gas or less steering (or both) until you have grip again.

It sounds like you had fun tho which is all that matters :)

FWIW, technically, the engine is 1994 cc, slightly under 2 liters :p

I agree that the classing system at Porsche (and BMW) events for Subarus is not all that great.


This is a common thing when you are starting out - adding too much steering input, gas, or both, when the car is already plowing. At this point you need to use less gas or less steering (or both) until you have grip again.

It sounds like you had fun tho which is all that matters :)

Yeah, I just read that same thing in Autocross Speed Secrets (yes, I'm a dork lol). It seems so counter intuitive at first, because if you're not turning where you want to turn on the street, the solution is to turn the wheel more and give it more gas! But it really does make sense. I just have to start thinking like an autocrosser :p

I can't wait to get out there again. It was so much fun. And I think its time to read through your entire thread BD, haha,

Sounds like you overdrove it quite a bit :lol:
However, from your description it sounds like you learned very quickly the things that cause bad problems (like just cranking on the wheel and giving it more gas to create more understeer.) Slow in fast out is an oversimplification, but it took me far more than 1 event to really get that into my head and driving habits, so the fact that you managed to make that much self-correction is a great sign indeed.

Indeed it's lots of fun, I wish I could make it to more events than I have in the past few years (I used to be quite an avid autocrosser.)

If you can go to any novice schools, or get someone who is really good to drive your car, those will be greatly beneficial.

When you feel the car plowing badly, BD is dead on: Less gas and less steering, then it will come back. Wait until you find the 'AHA!' moment of unwinding the wheel and feeling the car turning better with less steering input. :)

-Biggly

It's vividly in my memory. My roommate was driving my car two weeks ago, and it was the first time he had autoxed in 2 years and he was falling back on bad habits :)

I have WL adjustable 24mm sways front and rear. Do you think stiffening up the front bar would make the understear come on later?

Honestly, if I were you I would not adjust anything on the car. The more stuff you fiddle with now, the less your driving will improve. Unless the car is completely uncontrollable (i.e. dangerous somehow), don't touch anything after you set it for that day. Air pressure is OK. But try to keep the car consistent so that you can focus on changing yourself; the biggest variable. Then worry with the car tweaks later on. :)

edit: The more consistent you keep the car between events the faster you will learn and improve your driving skills. :)

-Biggly

I was wondering if there was a consensus on brake pads for STX. I don't want to upgrade the stock 03 calipers/rotors. I was using HPS's, but after 30k miles, the last autox ambient temps were over 85 degrees. I overheated them on my last run. I loved the initial bite when I first installed them but by now they have gotten very inconsistent. I have stainless steel lines and the fluid didn't boil.

I figure it is time for something new and there are a lot of choices out there. Seems like HP+'s are the easy choice, but there is also Carbotech, EBC, Performance Friction, Ferodo, Porterfield, and the list goes on. I've read a ton of reviews but nothing stands out to me. Some kill rotors, dust a lot, are noisy, some don't, etc. I have no ambitions on ever tracking this car other than autocross. It is my daily driver, so cold bite matters too.

I went from Hawk HPS to BHP XPS (basically in the same category as the HP+). I felt it was a noticeable difference. Since it's not a DD for me (usually) I didn't mind the dust/noise. The BHP's are 100% fine in the cold, can't speak for the HP+ though.

That said - even on hot days with lots of runs I never actually faded the HPS's. I did get them to smell like brake pads though :)

I went from Hawk HPS to BHP XPS (basically in the same category as the HP+). I felt it was a noticeable difference. Since it's not a DD for me (usually) I didn't mind the dust/noise. The BHP's are 100% fine in the cold, can't speak for the HP+ though.

That said - even on hot days with lots of runs I never actually faded the HPS's. I did get them to smell like brake pads though :)

BHPbrakes.com:

Welcome to our site
We are sorry to announce that due to circumstances beyond out control, Brake Horsepower Inc has permanently ceased operations and has started liquidating our assets.

:unamused:

They don't make pads for your calipers anyway :p

I was just saying that a pad of that genre (aggressive street/light track) made a noticeable difference for me in terms of braking feel, compared to the HPS. I am not sure what would make the most sense for you exactly. There's a thread in brakes/suspension about the Hawk DTC30, which is supposed to be in the same basic family and there are other pad suggestions in there.

Can we make this a sticky?

no only SP threads can be stickies :lol:

So I went out to the NYRSCCA event this weekend, again at Nassau. Got the camber plates working and dialed in the pressures throughout the day and the car felt great. I was mindful not to overdrive the car through the higher speed sections of the course, and when I did feel the from end start to slide, I just turned into the slide and let off the gas. It worked wonderfully. I was running low 46 second times all day until the last run when I managed a 45.4. That was good enough to earn me a second place out of 34 in novice class, and would have netted me a third place finish in ST*. I think I'm starting to get this :)