I read the update on Tounge tuning gears and heard that the one guy got a spun bearing. I bet his car was heavily moddified though. To where my car will probably never go past Stg 2, if that. I dont rag on my car (banging gears or racing/track events) But I do get in it (while in gear) at times. Change my oil every 3K w/ Castrol synthetic 5w-30. But I have heard stories, and Dont want that to happen to me $$$$$ So how can I avoid this situation all together.

Please give as much info as possible.
Thanks
Ryan

First...

Luck?

Regular oil changes, no high revving?

Patrick

First...

Luck?

Regular oil changes, no high revving?

Patrick


High revving means what? I thought the WRX 2.0L was a rev happy motor. Although I never take it past 6K= pointless

High revving means what? I thought the WRX 2.0L was a rev happy motor. Although I never take it past 6K= pointless

no need to bounce off the rev limiter is what they mean.

check your oil OFTEN and do not let it get low. too much oil means it blows past seals and leaks, too little means spun bearing. better to err on the side of a little too much.

Best thing is to make and save money in case it happens for a plan B.

Otherwise, use common sense while driving and your car should last you a billion or so miles

no need to bounce off the rev limiter is what they mean.

check your oil OFTEN and do not let it get low. too much oil means it blows past seals and leaks, too little means spun bearing. better to err on the side of a little too much.

I have never and never will go near the rev limiter. I dont know exactly what rpm it is, but like I said before, my subie will never go past 6K. On the oil thing, the manual says 4.8 qts, but is it alright to put in the full 5.

Thanks for the replies everyone, I appreciate it
Ryan:devil:

allways check your oil level and use no less than 10-30 especially in the summer :)

knock on wood, ive taken my car up to, and bounced off the limiter many times and no problems. I take it up to 7200 almost every gear until I hit the speed limit.

allways check your oil level and use no less than 10-30 especially in the summer :)

My plan is: 5w-30 in the winter and 10w-30 in the summer. Even thought the oil cap says 5w-30. 10w-30 in the summer wont hurt anything, will it??

My plan is: 5w-30 in the winter and 10w-30 in the summer. Even thought the oil cap says 5w-30. 10w-30 in the summer wont hurt anything, will it??

The owner's manual has a little chart with temperature versus oil weight in it. I don't remember the exact numbers off the top of my head, but 10w-30 should still be in the heart of the envelope.

It was my engine that spun the bearing! I run Motul 300V 15w50 oil ... as I think it is one of the best on the market. My car has been extremely modified..... from maxing out a stock TD04 (315 wtq/ 285 whp on c16) to VF34 to rotated 50 trim, and T04R! The engine has had a very hard life ... even before I owned the car! I run the car extremely hard... very frequently.
The bearing failure had nothing to do with the gearset, I just wanted to make that clear!
I have a 2.5L just about ready to go in :)
-Dan
Andrewtech Automotive

My plan is: 5w-30 in the winter and 10w-30 in the summer. Even thought the oil cap says 5w-30. 10w-30 in the summer wont hurt anything, will it??
i know the manufacturer says 5-30 in the winter and 10-30 in the summer
but doesnt anybody else know that the motor runs at almost the same exact temp reguardless of the time of year???
mine is always ,,,,, summer , winter , fall , whatever 189-191 degrees:confused:

the only thing i can imagine it helpin outon is at engine startup

i know the manufacturer says 5-30 in the winter and 10-30 in the summer
but doesnt anybody else know that the motor runs at almost the same exact temp reguardless of the time of year???
mine is always ,,,,, summer , winter , fall , whatever 189-191 degrees:confused:

the only thing i can imagine it helpin outon is at engine startup


cold startup is apparently the most damaging time for an engine, so even though a bearing might go out at higher rpm, the damage could have started much sooner. oil that is too thick can be just as bad as very thin oil, same reason 15w-50 isn't a subaru recommended oil.

makes good sense ^^^^^^^
yea im starting to consider 10-30 bc apparently MOBIL 1 runs very thin when hot

A number of ways to take out bearings besides low oil.

Low level detonation you can't hear that constantly hammers the bottom end. Its why you should have some sort of electronic listening device instead of trusting someones tune/fuel etc.

Oil pickup line could be cracked

Cornering hard without a baffled sump causing pump to run dry

Poor quality oil (motul is very good as its ester based)

Cooking your oil causing breakdown.

Changing down gears suddenly without rev matching causing a very sudden increase in revs.

The list goes on I'm tired

Has anyone heard of/used Lucas Synthetic Oil Stabilizer? Supposed to help with cold starts and just wondering if anyone has ran it in their engine?

i think common sense is what will keep bearings good. the only people I have seen bearings betray are the ones that live on the rev limiter.

0w30 GC all day everyday!!

A number of ways to take out bearings besides low oil.

Low level detonation you can't hear that constantly hammers the bottom end.



Very Good Point! IMO, detonation is probably the most common reason for rod bearing failures. I am not impressed with the factory ecu's logic for knock correction, at all.

I used to run the syn. oil stabilizer in my 99 honda prelude a few years ago and it helped with the cam follower noise i had around idle and seemed to have made the motor run a tad smoother at high rpm (8500 ish) is what i took it up to on a very normal basis and never had any problems except the one time i missed 4th and went to 2nd but all it did was bend a couple valves. But i have been running mobil 1 syn. In my 03 wrx and the motor spun a bearing and threw a rod through the top of the block a couple weeks before christmas. highest i would ever go with it though was 6500 simply cuz it didnt make any power after that. and i would rev match and everything when downshifting. As for the 2.0L being a rev happy motor, not true in my opinion which is why im saving up for a EJ207 because i like having room when downshifting when i drive spritively and will be swapping in some ra gears at the same time, hoping to have it running the the end of summer.

i think common sense is what will keep bearings good. the only people I have seen bearings betray are the ones that live on the rev limiter.

guess i better start saving :lol:

i know the manufacturer says 5-30 in the winter and 10-30 in the summer
but doesnt anybody else know that the motor runs at almost the same exact temp reguardless of the time of year???
mine is always ,,,,, summer , winter , fall , whatever 189-191 degrees:confused:

the only thing i can imagine it helpin outon is at engine startup

That's the whole point, the first number in the viscosity rating is for a cold engine, one that's just being started up. The second number is operating temperature. Thats why people change to 10w-30 in the summer, so the oil won't be as thin on start-up. Otherwise, both 5w-30 and 10w-30 will have the same viscosity once up to operating temperature (which can take up to 10 minutes btw).

Castrol synthetic 5w-30

LOSE. That stuff offers less protection at high temps than M1 5W30.


0w30 GC all day everyday!!

WIN.


How to not spin a bearing:
- Don't run crap oil. This *includes* needlessly thin stuff like M1 5W30 & 10W30, along with Castrol Syntec 5W30 and 10W30. Those are decent oils, but they aren't good enough (IMO) to deal with our oiling demands under harsh conditions. Stick with oils that meet ACEA A3 specs... generally speaking, this is NOT an oil that says "energy conserving" in the rating circle.

- Prime the oil pump before you first start the car after an oil change. This may be completely unnecessary, but I *have* heard some people's cars make nasty noises when they start their car without priming the pump first. Yank the IGN fuse and crank the starter in 10 second intervals until the oil pressure dummy light on the dash stays off.

- Don't run a crap tune. Detonation beats up bearings.

- Don't run crap oil.

- Don't run crap oil.

I use castrol 5-40 all year.

M1 5-30 has been shown to break down and thin out too quickly. 30w is too thin for spirited driving.

I've been running German castrol with good success (i've got 93K). and i take my car to 7000RPMs all the time. maybe i'm just lucky?

^^ aren't the Subaru dealerships running 30w with their oil changes?

Their selling performance cars with civic oil?

OUTRAGE! :lol:

I need to learn how to do oil changes on my own. My dealership gave me a hard time last time, and I'm starting to not like the quality of work i'm hearing from dealerships.

After all, it's simply more business to them if your car breaks down and has to go back in for repair...

Bastards.........

^^ aren't the Subaru dealerships running 30w with their oil changes?

Their selling performance cars with civic oil?

OUTRAGE! :lol:

I need to learn how to do oil changes on my own. My dealership gave me a hard time last time, and I'm starting to not like the quality of work i'm hearing from dealerships.

After all, it's simply more business to them if your car breaks down and has to go back in for repair...

Bastards.........

Changing oil is easy. I bet that the first time you do it you spill some on the garage floor, I did:lol:

I need to learn how to do oil changes on my own.


:confused::huh:

Change it yourself. Then you know it was done right!

Changing oil is easy. I bet that the first time you do it you spill some on the garage floor, I did:lol:


I changed mine the other day and got a little to excited when I let go of the drain plug. I splattered oil all down my arm on the floor and on to my shirt. Fun times

There are already many many threads about oil, so I won't re-start this. I run 5-50 Castrol. Have 108 K miles on my car. So far so good.
I also have an oil temperature gauge. I watch it every morning, and every time I drive the car. First the coolant temperature goes up and about only 2 minutes later, several miles later, does the oil temperature start to register.
I only start to drive hard the car, after the oil is warmed up.
I tried mobil1 in the winter, 5 w30. It did warm up roughly 2 minutes before the castrol. In the summer however, it carried a higher temerature than the castrol. Even at the track, the castrol stayed at just below 90 degrees celsius.
As was said before, many considerations are taken when an oil is reccomended. Gas mileage is one of them, maybe even the Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle status, that our cars are certified to.
If you drive your car hard, you may want to consider other oils than 10-30 as well.
Just as a note, I agree with what ws said about the cold engine wear, so I do see a benefit from minimizing wear with a quick warming oil. But high temperature protection is important too.

As far as the engine running always at the same temperature, I think the engine coolant is running at the same temperature, due to thermostat, radiator and fan. The oil temperatures don't always follow the same. Maybe with an oil radiator? I know that we have an oil heat exchanger.

I have never and never will go near the rev limiter. I dont know exactly what rpm it is, but like I said before, my subie will never go past 6K. On the oil thing, the manual says 4.8 qts, but is it alright to put in the full 5.

Thanks for the replies everyone, I appreciate it
Ryan:devil:

never going near the rev limiter........

wheres the fun in launching :(



(I'm joking, but when I drift my 350z at beaverun all you hear is rev limiter along with all the other nissans.... boo on subaru if you're not allowed to do it in fear of spinning a rod bearing)

I changed mine the other day and got a little to excited when I let go of the drain plug. I splattered oil all down my arm on the floor and on to my shirt. Fun times

i know lol first time I did it I didnt know it would squirt out THAT far, cause the drain plug is at an angle, totally missed the oil catch

i know lol first time I did it I didnt know it would squirt out THAT far, cause the drain plug is at an angle, totally missed the oil catch

:lol: Same here. Thats why I always wear old cloths

Changing oil is easy. I bet that the first time you do it you spill some on the garage floor, I did:lol:

+1

I think everyone experiences this the first time :lol:.

Quick tip to Noob's, Make sure the car is cool.

I have heard some horror stories b/c people drive, park, jack, drain oil = burn:eek:.

^^^It's better to change oil while warm, it drains easier. I did 50 oil changes on my wrx so far and never burned myself.

i must say i dont like M1 cause it fried my turbo my oil seals let go...i use castrol syntec and lucas oil stabilizer now...but im still running my blown turbo for another week

any one know of an even better oil? id like to get something highend

spun bearings to avoid it good oil, good tune, check oil make sure level doesnt drop.

^^^It's better to change oil while warm, it drains easier. I did 50 oil changes on my wrx so far and never burned myself.


Warm Good, Hot Bad.

---------------------------------------

I use Royal Purple in my WRX. It is expensive but I think its worth every penny.

Also, the Fumoto oil drain valve makes things a lot easier. No replacing washers, no tools required besides a filter wrench.

Here's how my EJ22T bearings failed.

-old oil; approx 3000miles on non-syn motor oil
-low coolant; engine temp rose a little
-150k miles on ORIGINAL engien bearings

all of this plus high revs does NOT mix well.
To keep from spinning a rod bearing, have good oil, good colaing andgood oil pump. Make sure your bearing are fresh and if you plan on running the engine hard, replace them with new bearings. I put in NEW bearings after this failer and the engine is rev happy once again. I take my revs to 7k prms because the power just keeps on going w/ my EVO3-16G-8cm. Not all setups have power all the way. I ported my heads.

NEXT on the list to keep away from spining bearings are:
new crank, 12mm oil pump.
I plan on rebuilding my '99 2.2L NA with internals. POSSIBLY closing the deck too.

what's the difference between GC 0w30 and Castrol syntec 5w30/10w40/5w50? does GC run any better or just has more protection?

I also have an oil temperature gauge. I watch it every morning, and every time I drive the car. First the coolant temperature goes up and about only 2 minutes later, several miles later, does the oil temperature start to register.
I only start to drive hard the car, after the oil is warmed up.


I live by my oil temp and pressure gauges. In the morning it takes several miles to get the oil above 160F and I don't get into the throttle until it's there.

Once the car is warm I don't really pay too much attention to the RPM, except to stay out of the rev limiter. A stock motor is not going to make any power up there anyway, so what's the point.

My current WRX has about 109k miles and runs great, as did the RS before it. Amsoil 5W-30 was/is used in both cars. I used Mobil1 10W-30 in my truck and did not like the burn off.

Also, I just got an oil analysis back from my last oil change, which was about 6500 miles of use, and they said that the oil looked excellent and I should push the next run about 9000 miles and send them a sample. I have always run between 6000 & 9000 without any problems and pay close attention to my oil levels. Also, I do a ton of highway miles.

^^^It's better to change oil while warm, it drains easier. I did 50 oil changes on my wrx so far and never burned myself.


hows ur car running with 130k and stg 2???
still good . or what?:confused:

MOTUL 5W-30 is Jesus Juice. But that's just my opinion.... Anyways, yes, GOOD oil and FULL oil are two of the best preventative measures.

nobody here likes Redline oil???

I use 5w40(Rotella miss spelled probably but its walmart brand) all year round and have had no problem. 111k on the engine.

what's the difference between GC 0w30 and Castrol syntec 5w30/10w40/5w50? does GC run any better or just has more protection?


Gc 0w30 is just that. Great startup protection, 30w when hot. From what I read, a 30w is too light for us. I use 5w40 Castrol all year.

nobody here likes Redline oil???


I do.. I use Redline and AMSOIL is almost everything I own and it's worked well so far. IMO, between what I have researched and also experianced first hand, these are some of the best oils available....

i must say i dont like M1 cause it fried my turbo my oil seals let go...i use castrol syntec and lucas oil stabilizer now...but im still running my blown turbo for another week

any one know of an even better oil? id like to get something highend

spun bearings to avoid it good oil, good tune, check oil make sure level doesnt drop.

Warm Good, Hot Bad.

---------------------------------------

I use Royal Purple in my WRX. It is expensive but I think its worth every penny.

M1-I have never heard anything good about it. Mobil was bought buy a nother company and the new company changed the formula. Search spun bearing and watch how much M1 comes up=no,no. I used Royal Purple for my first oil change after I bought the car(original owner used it) when I was changing out the old RP, I spilled some on the ground. So 3 days later I go out in the garage and the oil spot disapeared:huh: That tells me that the viscosity or something in the oil is not that great 5w-30. I will not use it again. I have talked to many people that say that for race applications (RP) is good, but for a daily driver it doesent hold up. Now I use Castrol Synthetic 5w-30 and will continue to do so.

MOTUL 5W-30 is Jesus Juice. But that's just my opinion.... Anyways, yes, GOOD oil and FULL oil are two of the best preventative measures.

At $10 a qt it better be. ENOS is a good oil, but like $10 qt as well

nobody here likes Redline oil???

Heard good things, but I can never find it. And I am not ordering oil over the internet.

Has anyone heard of/used Lucas Synthetic Oil Stabilizer? Supposed to help with cold starts and just wondering if anyone has ran it in their engine?

the stuff is crap and been discussed. look at these results
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm

+1 for an external knock detection device, ie knocklink, good oil and good tune ftw!

Hmm I've been running RP for almost a year now and it seems to work great. Does anyone know of any bad info. about RP? :confused:

I'm the 2nd (American/westerner) to own my car, and i don't know how many owners its had before the guy i got it from-
but the previous owner who had it for a few years ran Royal Purple 10-40 and Subaru filters, nothing else, with regular beatings. She still runs great, pulls hard, and doesnt burn/leak a drop of oil. I will continue to use RP 10-40 and Suby filters.

Hmm I've been running RP for almost a year now and it seems to work great. Does anyone know of any bad info. about RP? :confused:

I didnt like it from when it spilled on my garage floor (used oil) and then 3 days later the spot disapeared:huh: Maybe its just me, but for some reason that didnt settle with me very well

I have been using RP for years. Since about 1995. I did the original dyno testing of this oil and was contracted by them to test it. This oil does make hp and it has a nice addative package. However, RP is thinner then stated on the bottle. This is one reason why it makes power. There are many tests of new and used RP(and other oils) on oil forums on the net. Based on that data it seems that RP is about about 50% lighter than stated. A 5W typicaly tests at 2W. A 10W at 4 or 5W. Redline oil is another that seems to be thinner then stated. Keep this in mind when running RP oil.

I can tell you that Subaru engines do not like thin oil. This becomes clear when you run thin oil by the oil in the intercooler, intake pipes and or catch can. Also these engines will tend to use the oil up much faster. A 0W oil is a horrible choice. The 5W is better. I have found that 10W oil is about perfect for most climates and you will have minimum burning and spillage into the intake tract. A sure way to hurt the bearings is to run a 15 or a 20W oil. This oil is simply to thick and does not flow well enough. Especialy at high RPMs.

Clark

Redline oil is another that seems to be thinner then stated.
Aside from Amsoil Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30, Redline 5W30 is the only other 5W30 that I'm aware of that meets ACEA A3 specs (high-temp high-shear > 3.5). It is definitely *not* a thin 5W30, especially in comparison to stuff like Mobil1 5W30 or Castrol Syntec 5W30.


A 0W oil is a horrible choice. The 5W is better. I have found that 10W oil is about perfect for most climates and you will have minimum burning and spillage into the intake tract. A sure way to hurt the bearings is to run a 15 or a 20W oil. This oil is simply to thick and does not flow well enough. Especialy at high RPMs.

Why are you mentioning the cold weight and "high RPMs"?

In a perfect world, 0W30, 5W30, and 10W30 are all the same thickness at operating temp... the problem is twofold:
- the "30" indicates a thickness range, not an absolute value
- the manufacturers rate their own oils

The German-made 0W30 Castrol is a great example of an oil that is good all around... 0W for cold starts, and a good 30W for protection at normal operating temperature (HTHS > 3.5).

Obviously, for racing/severe conditions a thicker oil should be considered (e.g. 0W40, 5W40, 5W50, etc.)

Gc 0w30 is just that. Great startup protection, 30w when hot. From what I read, a 30w is too light for us. I use 5w40 Castrol all year.

Everyone should take a visit over to http://www.bobistheoilguy.com and check out the UOA ("used oil analysis") forums. I've been (re-)educating myself on oil over the past few weeks, but the from the UOAs I've seen, GC 0w30 "elf juice" is actually almost a 40 wt by its measured viscosity, and it is extremely shear-stable so its viscosity doesn't break down over higher miles. It is highly coveted, and it's back in stores (I found some at autozone over the weekend after months of absence -- I bought 10 quarts). I won't touch anything that says "energy conserving" (even 5w40) anymore -- as noted above, go ACEA 3. Castrol does have a 5w40 "European Blend" but I was told (though I need to search some UOAs) that it is not as good as the GC.

I posted a UOA last week (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1444003) for Redline 5w40 that had 250 or so track miles on the first sample and an extra 100 or so for the second sample. It show almost zero decrease in viscosity over the entire period. Driving full-out on the banking at Pocono on a hot day, the temps remained largely 100c or below and EGTs were in good shape. I've got a case of it in the garage now.

Ted

Great factual info xx99!

Most Castrol Syntecs are made in N. America. The 5/10W30 are typical Energy Conserving xW30's (oils with the Starburst logo) that have a low High Temp High Shear that favors fuel economy over protection. Syntec 0W30 (http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/p,q/pds_syntec_usa.pdf) (aka GC, aka German Castrol) is made in Germany, is a different formulation and meets tougher High Temp High Shear specs (BMW, VW, European ACEA A3). And you won't find many xW30's as thick as GC at operating temp.

At one time Syntec 5W40 sold in the U.S. was made in Belgium and was a different formulation. Oils in Europe cannot be called synthetic unless they are Group IV or higher. Syntec xW40's and 5W50 contain a lot of Viscosity Index Improvers, and that's the first thing to break down in an oil.

I've seen uoa's posted here on Syntec 10W40 where it sheared down to a thinner viscsosity at 3,000 miles than my runs of 8,000 miles on GC.

And more great info by Wombat North.


Low level detonation you can't hear that constantly hammers the bottom end. Its why you should have some sort of electronic listening device instead of trusting someones tune/fuel etc.

Oil pickup line could be cracked

Cornering hard without a baffled sump causing pump to run dry

Poor quality oil (motul is very good as its ester based)

Cooking your oil causing breakdown.

Changing down gears suddenly without rev matching causing a very sudden increase in revs.


-Dennis

As for redline, it sounds like your favorite and thats great. However. I personaly tested a 5w at 2 weight and when posted about it dug up strings of people that confirmed that redline oil is lighter that stated. This was 3 or 4 years back. Maybe they changed the forumulation. I would still not run it though. We had three big end bearing failures on JDM 2.0 engines and all three ran Redline. When speaking to redline engineers they told me NOT to run the oil in the SUbaru motors again! They suggested I run there 20/50!

I am aware of oil specs weights and measures. I have been testing oil since 1995 and worked in the Fluid lab doing the actual testing for some of those years :)

My advice is to not fall into the trap of HOT and Cold Viscosity ratings. The oil is only one weight and it has an addative that makes it Multi viscosity. The truth to the matter is that this addative hurts performance of the oil and the wider the range the more multi visc addative. Hence the reason that 0-50w is a horrible choice for these engines.

Gotta run tune an STI... Be on later.

Clark


Aside from Amsoil Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30, Redline 5W30 is the only other 5W30 that I'm aware of that meets ACEA A3 specs (high-temp high-shear > 3.5). It is definitely *not* a thin 5W30, especially in comparison to stuff like Mobil1 5W30 or Castrol Syntec 5W30.




Why are you mentioning the cold weight and "high RPMs"?

In a perfect world, 0W30, 5W30, and 10W30 are all the same thickness at operating temp... the problem is twofold:
- the "30" indicates a thickness range, not an absolute value
- the manufacturers rate their own oils

The German-made 0W30 Castrol is a great example of an oil that is good all around... 0W for cold starts, and a good 30W for protection at normal operating temperature (HTHS > 3.5).

Obviously, for racing/severe conditions a thicker oil should be considered (e.g. 0W40, 5W40, 5W50, etc.)

As for redline, it sounds like your favorite and thats great. However. I personaly tested a 5w at 2 weight and when posted about it dug up strings of people that confirmed that redline oil is lighter that stated. This was 3 or 4 years back. Maybe they changed the forumulation. I would still not run it though. We had three big end bearing failures on JDM 2.0 engines and all three ran Redline. When speaking to redline engineers they told me NOT to run the oil in the SUbaru motors again! They suggested I run there 20/50!

I am aware of oil specs weights and measures. I have been testing oil since 1995 and worked in the Fluid lab doing the actual testing for some of those years :)

My advice is to not fall into the trap of HOT and Cold Viscosity ratings. The oil is only one weight and it has an addative that makes it Multi viscosity. The truth to the matter is that this addative hurts performance of the oil and the wider the range the more multi visc addative. Hence the reason that 0-50w is a horrible choice for these engines.

Gotta run tune an STI... Be on later.

Clark

Were you were running RL 5W30 in a modified JDM engine?

Redline uses little or no Viscosity Index Improvers in their multi-viscosity oils (http://www.redlineoil.com/products_motoroil.asp?productID=2&subCategoryID=1&categoryID=1). "These synthetics have a natural multigrade property which allows our chemists to avoid bulking up an oil with unnecessary additive packages."

I think a virgin oil analysis by an indepdent lab will show you that the specs quoted on their web site are pretty accurate. http://www.redlineoil.com/pdf/4.pdf
Scroll down for RL VOA's. (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=478127#Post478127)

TedMeyer's post is an example of a good tune and a good oil. :) He has the best advice in this entire thread, IMO.

-Dennis

Oil pickup line could be cracked

Cornering hard without a baffled sump causing pump to run dry

Poor quality oil (motul is very good as its ester based)

Cooking your oil causing breakdown.

Changing down gears suddenly without rev matching causing a very sudden increase in revs.

Anyone know who makes a good baffle for our sump? I do a lot of hard cornering and don't want to risk starvation (again).

Don't WRX motors take 10W-40? I thought using a different viscosity oil is bad. I use Motul 10W-40 300V Chrono (AU$150 for 5L)

I agee with a lot of the things mentioned here. Other things I've always believed were:
- Going past 6000rpm on a stocker is useless
- don't bounce off the limiter
- I've always thought using the wrong viscosity oil can lead to spun bearings
- Don't bash the gearbox and avoid sudden revving

other than that, the EJ motor is quite REV happy! :D


Owen

Australia

^^^

The above is proof that US spec's are idiotic to recomend 5x30 weight oils, if the poster above is stateing that his requirements are 10x40 for an austrailian variant WRX from the factory.

Now I understand it may be hotter in AU (depending on location), but it cant be far from weither down south in the US.

Ive seen this same info from other across the pond nasioc members.

Bunch of bogus crap to make cars meet min requirements for emisions and MPG, meanwhile it causes engines to fall apart sooner. Creating more emisions because of blow by or burning oil because of shot rings because of the lack of lubrication.

Hey,

Yep, all Subarus here in Australia run on 10W-40 viscosity oil. I live in Sydney and sometimes it gets pretty cold here. but the 10W-40 still does it wonders. Honestly, the car is only cold for what... the first 5-10 minutes? after that, once you are in normal operating temperatures, that's what matters most.

My mate has a WRX Evo 5 Club Spec (GDA WRX) and he spun his big-end bearing cause of the wrong viscosity oil (used 5W-50 instead of the recommended 10W-40). He ended up doing a 2.5L MY07 STi bottom-block conversion and retune to his car >_< !!

AU Spec WRX are as follows:

MY96-MY98 GC8 WRX
- GC8 Classic look
- 2.0L turbocharged

MY99-MY00 GC8 WRX
- new crystal headlights & foglamps
- newer front bar & grille
- 2.0L turbocharged 160kW

MY99-MY00 GC8 WRX (Version 5 & 6)
- no DCCD
- 2.0L turbocharged 206kW

MY01-MY02 GDA WRX (bugeye)
- no DCCD
- 2.0L turbocharged 169kW (AVCS)

MY01-MY02 GDA WRX STi (bugeye)
- no DCCD
- 2.0L turbocharged 190kW (AVCS)

MY03 GDB WRX (peanut eyes)
- no DCCD
- 2.0L turbocharged 169kW (AVCS)

MY03 GDB WRX STi (peanut eye)
- no DCCD
- 2.0L turbocharged 195kW (AVCS)

MY04-MY05 GDB WRX (peanut eye)
- Series 2 centre console
- no DCCD
- 2.0L turbocharged 169kW (AVCS)

MY04-MY05 GDB WRX STi (peanut eye)
- DCCD!
- 2.0L turbocharged 195kW (AVCS)

MY06 GDBF WRX (pignose or hawkeye)
- no DCCD
- 2.5L turbocharged 169kW (AVCS - more torque - same power)

MY06 GDBF WRX STi (pignose or hawkeye)
- DCCD
- 2.5L turbocharged 206kW (AVCS)

MY07 GDBF WRX STi (pignose or hawkeye)
- DCCD
- 2.5L turbocharged twin-scroll 245kW (AVCS)


>_< that's off the top of my head - took me ages to type!


Owen

Australia

^^^

The above is proof that US spec's are idiotic to recomend 5x30 weight oils, if the poster above is stateing that his requirements are 10x40 for an austrailian variant WRX from the factory.

Now I understand it may be hotter in AU (depending on location), but it cant be far from weither down south in the US.

Ive seen this same info from other across the pond nasioc members.

Bunch of bogus crap to make cars meet min requirements for emisions and MPG, meanwhile it causes engines to fall apart sooner. Creating more emisions because of blow by or burning oil because of shot rings because of the lack of lubrication.
Subaru of America was only 2 mpg's above the minimum for government CAFE mpg requirements in 2006, so don't expect it to change.

At least they do list other grades in the owner's manual, but most people seem to ignore this information. Just look at the "5W30 is on the cap" comments.

The other thing about Aussie, Euro, etc. oil is even their typical 5W30's are better than ours. There is 5W30 Mobil1 and Syntec in the UK that meets Euro ACEA A3 specs. Some of the few that meet it here are Syntec 0W30 (GC) and Mobil1 10W30 High Mileage. People write those off because they think the 0W30 is too thin and High Mileage oil is a gimmick.

-Dennis

penzoil platinum synthetic ftw

Were you were running RL 5W30 in a modified JDM engine?

Redline uses little or no Viscosity Index Improvers in their multi-viscosity oils (http://www.redlineoil.com/products_motoroil.asp?productID=2&subCategoryID=1&categoryID=1). "These synthetics have a natural multigrade property which allows our chemists to avoid bulking up an oil with unnecessary additive packages."

I think a virgin oil analysis by an indepdent lab will show you that the specs quoted on their web site are pretty accurate. http://www.redlineoil.com/pdf/4.pdf
Scroll down for RL VOA's. (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=478127#Post478127)

TedMeyer's post is an example of a good tune and a good oil. :) He has the best advice in this entire thread, IMO.

-Dennis

Hi Dennis. Thanks for the reply. Yes. I ran Redline oil In JDM 2.0 EJ207 engines. V7's and V8's. We had Bearing failures including my own spec C engine :( After testing we found the viscosity was very low. This prompted me and others to test new oil and found the Viscosity was lower than stated. After sending all this to Redline and talking to an engineer we where told NOT to run this oil in these tight clearance engines. It was suggested for us to run the 20W50 Redline. I refused to do that so we switched oil and with that switch the bearing issues never showed up again. Old M1 worked perfectly in those engines in the 10W. Not sure what else to say other than this was about 3 to 4 years back. Formulation might have changed. I dont know.. I was a die hard Redline oil fan before this happend.

To me its simple. Let the engine tell you what it wants to run by checking usage and testing the oil. Thats what I do. I was real happy with the old M1 :) Today I run what I can find most of the time. That normaly includes Valvoline synth with a bottle of VSOT added in. This never burns off and tests great in my 2.5ltr/JDM head engine. My Bro's 2.35ltr Axis stroker motor likes Castrol Synth the best. Other oils seem to blow out on the driveway during cold starts (loose pistons) or disapears in short order. This Piston slap is much softer with the castrol so he runs it.

To me its clear on the choice of weight and an EJ motor. A 0w or some 5W oils will burn of and or fill your intake pipes with oil. 10W40 almost never burns off and does not fill the catch can. 20W increases the Piston slap noise and pegs the oil pressure gauge. I think most will find that a good 10W40 or 10W50 oil will be best in the 2.5 engine.

Clark

That normaly includes Valvoline synth with a bottle of VSOT added in.
VSOT is another gread idea for more bearing protection. Especially for people that run girly-man energy conserving oils. :D

-Dennis

To me its clear on the choice of weight and an EJ motor. A 0w or some 5W oils will burn of and or fill your intake pipes with oil. 10W40 almost never burns off and does not fill the catch can.
Clark

I've been running GC 0w-30 for 15k miles and have had zero oil burn off and no oil in the intake pipes.

I have heard others say that you should NOT switch oil brands. Find one and stick with it. Any truth to this??

Also, the Fumoto oil drain valve makes things a lot easier. No replacing washers, no tools required besides a filter wrench.

Plus one (http://www.quickoildrainvalve.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=F105)

http://www.quickoildrainvalve.com/photos/F105-2.jpg

Plus one (http://www.quickoildrainvalve.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=F105)

http://www.quickoildrainvalve.com/photos/F105-2.jpg

Have you ever tried taking the valve out after all the oil has stopped dripping to see how much oil is still left in the oil pan? Its more than I'm comfortable with.

The only way I will suggest that valve is to pour a half quart or so of oil into the crank cae with it open after its stopped draining. This will flush the rest of the oil out. Its a huge waste though.

Clark

so i take it im slowly stabbing my car to its death using quakerstates high mileage with Slick 50 10-30w huh?

:(

im at 115,000 and to tell u the truth im scared s-less of the day the engine goes...

right now i have a small leak on the passanger side valve cover

and smoke after warm up from the tail pipe which i think is caused by the old turbo

other then that all seems fine...

dont buy a subaru :lol: J/K

Dennis, Ted or anyone else that knows... Do you know what the ACEA E7-04 specs are? I can't find any information on it, but this oil I just picked up, Lubrication Engineers Monolec Ultra 8800 15w40, has that rating. It is a parafin based blend. I was using about 1 quart every 2500 miles or so on GC, so I wanted to try something different. I'll post the UOA when I do it, but that'll be in at least 4800 miles :). I've heard good things about this oil, just haven't seen any analysis of it yet.

I like all that oil info, but ......it doesn't tell me what woudl be a good general brand and weight to use...I'm not dumb but I don't wanna to spend hours reading stuff on oil to decide what would be best to use..

what's the cliff notes?

some 1 post a vote on what every one uses..
id like to see what is most """popular""" vs. what is being said after all this debate

so i take it im slowly stabbing my car to its death using quakerstates high mileage with Slick 50 10-30w huh?

:(

im at 115,000 and to tell u the truth im scared s-less of the day the engine goes...

right now i have a small leak on the passanger side valve cover

and smoke after warm up from the tail pipe which i think is caused by the old turbo

other then that all seems fine...


get that valve cover seal replaced you could catch on fire if the oil sits on your exhaust. I just got mine replaced because the heat from the uppipe causes premature wear on that side of the motors valve cover. get it fixed.

I have run both the 5W-30 Redline and 5W-30 Mobil one with no problems. I have a very tight engine and almost never burn any oil, so the light weight oils work well for me. I've run the Royal Purple Racing oil and you could tell the oil was a bit too light, (engine was noiser).
Mobil 15-50W quiets the engine down a lot but it also makes the engine sluggish and especially in cool weather was obviously too thick. I have a batch of Mobil 0W-40 which will go in on my next oil change here in the spring, as its specs look a bit better than the 5W-30.

As Clark said, let the engine tell you what it likes. If it is burning it like a diesel, your running too light an oil for your particular engine. The best way is to use an oil pressure gauge to see what oil viscosity in your normal driving conditions gives you proper oil pressure of at least 10 psi/1000 rpm across the board. If you are seeing hot oil pressures significantly higher than that you are running too thick of an oil and putting the engine at risk due to lack of oil flow. If you are significantly lower than 10 psi/1000 you are running too thin of an oil.

For near stock cars, simply stick with a quality brand in the recommended viscosity ranges in the owners manual. Don't get carried away with ignition advance if you are tuning. Forget about additives like Slick 50 they have been repeatedly shown to be of marginal if not negative value.

Lastly use a bit of common sense and don't flog the crap out of your engine on a daily basis on the stock oil and expect it to live to 150,000 miles. Don't let it over heat, and watch your oil level and you will probably have years of trouble free service.

Larry

The only way I will suggest that valve is to pour a half quart or so of oil into the crank cae with it open after its stopped draining. This will flush the rest of the oil out. Its a huge waste though.

Clark


Wow, thanks for the advice.

My engine loves Shell Rotella T synthetic 5w-40. This is a heavy duty oil used in diesel trucks... not some ***** energy conserving oil.



Its designed to not shear down:

http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=rotella-en&FC2=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/press_release_2006/zzz_lhn.html&FC3=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/press_release_2006/cj-4_intro_1006.html

As Clark said, let the engine tell you what it likes. If it is burning it like a diesel, your running too light an oil for your particular engine. The best way is to use an oil pressure gauge to see what oil viscosity in your normal driving conditions gives you proper oil pressure of at least 10 psi/1000 rpm across the board. If you are seeing hot oil pressures significantly higher than that you are running too thick of an oil and putting the engine at risk due to lack of oil flow. If you are significantly lower than 10 psi/1000 you are running too thin of an oil.
With an oil pump like ours, won't the relief valve in the pump determine the minimum oil pressure?

Once it's *fully* warmed up, at just about anything above 2k RPM, my oil pressure gauge sits steady at just under "6" (read in 100kPa) ... so, let's say 5.85, which is right at 85psi... right what I *think* the relief valve is set to.

I'm currently running Redline 5W30, and I am of the opinion that Mobil1 5W30, Castrol 5W30, and Royal Purple 5W30 are all too thin for my needs.

Yes the relief valve pops off at 85 psi so as long as the oil pressure hits that max pressure near redline your doing good. If you are running a thicker oil and hitting pop off pressure at 3K - 4K rpm, you are losing flow and actually reducing lubrication and cooling due to oil flow.

Larry

I have used Mobile 1 5-30 since the first 5k miles. I use "0" oil between 5K changes. That includes over 100 dyno pull's, over the last year. I make a point of bringing the engine temp. up to normal before flogging it. Most engine wear takes place at initial fire-up, do to oil starvation, but a horizontal engine should leave some oil in the cylinders.

my engine has 110k miles on it. i got it at 40k. ever since i changed my oil every 3k with m1 and i drive hard all the time. first 10k miles i had it was stock. then went stealthback and accessport for 50k. now im at 10k with a vf39 running 277whp and still drive it as hard as i always had. not saying m1 the best. but under my conditions i havent had a problem with it, besides a occational court low

IF you want to step things up a bit, Buy the Canton mecca oil Filter. I have used them for years. The big advantage is that this filter does not bypass the oil. It filters all the oil, all the time. Metal Can type filters have a valve that bypasses the oil when oil pressure rises. The CM filter also has an anti drain back valve which keeps oil in the filter.

http://www.cmfilters.com/spin-on.cfm

CLark

Yes the relief valve pops off at 85 psi so as long as the oil pressure hits that max pressure near redline your doing good. If you are running a thicker oil and hitting pop off pressure at 3K - 4K rpm, you are losing flow and actually reducing lubrication and cooling due to oil flow.
Unfortunately, most people don't have an oil pressure gauge... but the few I have seen behave *very* similarly to mine, even with the use of something like M1 5W30. Only their pressure will start to fall off once it gets *really* hot.


The problem I have with the 10psi/1000rpm thing is that it is not a "Subaru" rule... that's just some general idea that has been repeated over and over, long before the WRX was even sold in the States.

Why is the recommended oil something like a 5W40 or 10W40 overseas, but *our* recommended oil in the U.S. is "energy conserving" 5W30?

Why is the recommended oil something like a 5W40 or 10W40 overseas, but *our* recommended oil in the U.S. is "energy conserving" 5W30?

Probably because car manufacturers are being pressured by the government to lower mpgs, and that's something that lowers it and doesn't cost anything.

Probably because car manufacturers are being pressured by the government to lower mpgs, and that's something that lowers it and doesn't cost anything.
Yes, but why does the idea of running thicker oil ALSO go against what Larry (hotrod) is saying about having 10psi/1000rpm ? According to that [general] rule, using oils like 5W40 or 10W40 would put "the engine at risk due to lack of oil flow".

I would have to run a ridiculously thin oil to meet the rule of 10psi/1000rpm. Based on that, I am about ready to dismiss that rule as being something that just gets repeated enough to become fact.

just switched from MOBIL 1 5w30 to German Castrol 0w30(synthetic)
i think itll be muuuuuch better!

IF you want to step things up a bit, Buy the Canton mecca oil Filter. I have used them for years. The big advantage is that this filter does not bypass the oil. It filters all the oil, all the time. Metal Can type filters have a valve that bypasses the oil when oil pressure rises. The CM filter also has an anti drain back valve which keeps oil in the filter.

http://www.cmfilters.com/spin-on.cfm

CLark

Isn't the whole purpose of the bypass to allow oil to .... bypass? Dirty oil is better than NO oil. The purpose of the bypass is to save your $3000 engine from a fouled or plugged $5 filter. Maybe i'm missing something. Does this Canton mecca filter protect the engine (or its oil flow) in a different way?

thanks
-theo

The problem I have with the 10psi/1000rpm thing is that it is not a "Subaru" rule... that's just some general idea that has been repeated over and over, long before the WRX was even sold in the States.

It is a good rule of thumb that has been used for over 1/2 a century.
If you take the stock max oil pressure pop off pressure of 85 psi divide by 7 for a red line of 7000 rpm you get 12.1 psi/per 1000 rpm as the highest design oil pressure your engine will ever see at redline. Since that is the nominal range, and engineers always build in a safety factor, you can quickly see that with a small cushion for hot oil temps or excessive load, that Subaru designs around the 10 psi/1000 rpm minimum safe oil pressure rule too.

Larry

i know the manufacturer says 5-30 in the winter and 10-30 in the summer
but doesnt anybody else know that the motor runs at almost the same exact temp reguardless of the time of year???
mine is always ,,,,, summer , winter , fall , whatever 189-191 degrees:confused:

the only thing i can imagine it helpin outon is at engine startup


Once summer comes around, I plan on running a 160 degree thermostat, as well as 10w30

Dennis, Ted or anyone else that knows... Do you know what the ACEA E7-04 specs are?
Use Google. :p

It's a heavy duty diesel oil spec.

ACEA pdf. (http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/pub/070308_ACEA_sequences_2007_LD_and_HD.pdf)

-Dennis

It is a good rule of thumb that has been used for over 1/2 a century.
EXACTLY.

...and what were the bearing clearances being used 50 years ago, compared to what we see in a bone stock Subaru motor today?


You said this earlier:If you are running a thicker oil and hitting pop off pressure at 3K - 4K rpm, you are losing flow and actually reducing lubrication and cooling due to oil flow.
...and I'm hitting ~85psi before 3k RPM. Based on what you said, I *should* consider a thinner oil than my current 5W30!.... but, overseas, Subaru recommends a *thicker* oil than what I'm currently using.

Understand my confusion?

...and I'm hitting ~85psi before 3k RPM. Based on what you said, I *should* consider a thinner oil than my current 5W30!.... but, overseas, Subaru recommends a *thicker* oil than what I'm currently using.

Understand my confusion?

Is that "hot oil pressure"?
It is oil flow not pressure that keeps your bearings alive.

In the Oil FAQ there is a link you need to read!
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=499177 <-- oil FAQ

http://63.240.161.99/motoroil/index.html <--- link that explains what I am saying.

EXACTLY.

...and what were the bearing clearances being used 50 years ago, compared to what we see in a bone stock Subaru motor today?

The clearances in the Subaru engine are designed around the same rule of thumb, they are tighter but the recommended oil viscosity is also lower, the two go hand in hand.

Larry

so everyone has me scared of spinning a bearing I'm running M1 now and want to switch to royal purple or amsoil/redline (expensive$$$). I'm currently burning a little m1 every 2k and would like to see that come to a stop. I don't thrash on my car but I drive it in a spirited mannar, what would you guys recomend?? I don't like that someone said that RP is thinner than rated so I'm looking at amsoil or redline maybe.

http://63.240.161.99/motoroil/index.html <--- link that explains what I am saying.

Cliff's Notes - Dr. Haas, a surgeon, uses Redline 5W20 in a grocery getter Ferrari in Florida. :) Remember that the smaller the oil sump (e.g. 5 qts vs. Ferrari size), the harder the car will be on oil.

Don't forget that you can have thin oils with a high High Temp High Shear like RL 5W20. That might be ideal for some applications where you want the quickest possbile flow of a thin oil, but with a high HTHS. RL's 5W20 has a higher HTHS than most xW30's. Their xW30's are even higher.

-Dennis

Is that "hot oil pressure"?
It is oil flow not pressure that keeps your bearings alive.

In the Oil FAQ there is a link you need to read!
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=499177 <-- oil FAQ

http://63.240.161.99/motoroil/index.html <--- link that explains what I am saying.



The clearances in the Subaru engine are designed around the same rule of thumb, they are tighter but the recommended oil viscosity is also lower, the two go hand in hand.

Larry
I'm still not quite getting the answer I'm looking for...

I'm convinced that our recommended oil is 5W30 because of mileage/CAFE/etc. This is bolstered by the fact that Subaru recommends the use of thicker oils overseas.

*someone* is wrong. Is it the medical doctor in FL who thinks that everyone should be running 5W20, or is it Subaru for recommending 5W40 and 10W40?

Dennis. What do you think about ELF and Total oils? A local shop in town (goodspeed) sells both. I read the pamplets that came with the oils and was told that both are made by Elf. I was told that Elf is marketed towards Europeans and Total to Japanese. Total lists an oil Designed For SUbaru engines. Yesterday I was there tuning a couple Bugeyes and one had 101,000 on it. They changed the oil to the total Energy 9000 and the engine ran super smooth and made no valvetrain noise. Its not super expensive for a high quality oil. I might switch to it and the do an oil test to see how its doing.

CLark

I'm still not quite getting the answer I'm looking for...

I'm convinced that our recommended oil is 5W30 because of mileage/CAFE/etc. This is bolstered by the fact that Subaru recommends the use of thicker oils overseas.

*someone* is wrong. Is it the medical doctor in FL who thinks that everyone should be running 5W20, or is it Subaru for recommending 5W40 and 10W40?

I believe someone mentioned that even in our owner's manuals it is recommended running a thicker oil (40 weight) for severe use. I don't have an owner's manual or I'd check.

Based on what I've read on NASIOC and BITOG, and after looking at a bunch of UOAs, I'm going to run GC or Redline during warmer months when I'll be at the track and/or stressing the engine more. (I'd only use 0w30 GC because the UOA viscosity tests show GC is basically almost a 40-wt to start with and it has better viscosity stability than most-any oil... drain it after 5000 miles and it's still almost a 40 wt.) Pennzoil Platinum full-synth also seems to perform very well -- that's probably the only energy conserving oil I'll ever use again. Rotella also has many, many adherents -- I'd try that if it was readily available near me. I encourage everyone to go take a look on BITOG, have your own oil analyzed (and share with the group) and form your own opinion. I'm just a noob, but have been up late reading about this (much to my wife's chagrin).

i know the manufacturer says 5-30 in the winter and 10-30 in the summer
but doesnt anybody else know that the motor runs at almost the same exact temp reguardless of the time of year???
mine is always ,,,,, summer , winter , fall , whatever 189-191 degrees:confused:

the only thing i can imagine it helpin outon is at engine startup


correct might run a little hotter in the summer but not much. its the cold start that kills the bearings the best thing to do is keep the car in a garage during the winter and use 5w30 if possible move to where theres no winter :banana:

I run 10w30 in the winter and 10w40 in the summer but I'm also pushing 500whp on pump gas stock motor.

Dennis. What do you think about ELF and Total oils? A local shop in town (goodspeed) sells both. I read the pamplets that came with the oils and was told that both are made by Elf. I was told that Elf is marketed towards Europeans and Total to Japanese. Total lists an oil Designed For SUbaru engines. Yesterday I was there tuning a couple Bugeyes and one had 101,000 on it. They changed the oil to the total Energy 9000 and the engine ran super smooth and made no valvetrain noise. Its not super expensive for a high quality oil. I might switch to it and the do an oil test to see how its doing.

CLark

Which viscosity did they put in? I was looking around and found this: http://www.elfcanada.ca/index.cfm?fuseaction=main.display&Content=AutomotiveProductOverview
They say Subaru for the 10w50.
Just curious, as my bugeye has 103,000 on it and I'd like it to continue to last... even with its new found power. The only good thing about my higher mileage is that I have put all of it on, and I know I've changed the oil every 3k, but I've never put anything other than 5w30 in it.

Isn't the whole purpose of the bypass to allow oil to .... bypass? Dirty oil is better than NO oil. The purpose of the bypass is to save your $3000 engine from a fouled or plugged $5 filter. Maybe i'm missing something. Does this Canton mecca filter protect the engine (or its oil flow) in a different way?

thanks
-theo

I think your missing the point Theo. The metal can type filters do not filter the oil all the time. The reason is that the filter media and size of that media cannot flow the full volume of oil the oil pump is producing. So the valve opens and lets oil bypass the filter media so it does restrict the flow of oil to the engine. There is a differential pressure drop over the filter and this valve minimizes this. The CM filter flows enough oil for a Semi truck in volume and it will hold four times the pressure. This is called a Full flow filter. It has no by pass. It has next to zero pressure drop, flows more oil, its easier on the oil and it never bypasses the oil. Your oil is flowing clean at a high volume. Another benifit is that the CM filter element is good for at least 10,000 miles. Most run them to 15,000 before changing the internal filter element. You simply drop the oil, put fresh oil in and go on. If you change the CM filter element before 10,000 miles you are just throwing money out. I run them at least two oil changes.

Clark

Dennis. What do you think about ELF and Total oils? A local shop in town (goodspeed) sells both. I read the pamplets that came with the oils and was told that both are made by Elf. I was told that Elf is marketed towards Europeans and Total to Japanese. Total lists an oil Designed For SUbaru engines. Yesterday I was there tuning a couple Bugeyes and one had 101,000 on it. They changed the oil to the total Energy 9000 and the engine ran super smooth and made no valvetrain noise. Its not super expensive for a high quality oil. I might switch to it and the do an oil test to see how its doing.

CLark
Clark,
They have a lot of praise for Elf oils on bitog. Here's a recent link (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1088341#Post1088341). There are other threads in the Euro oil forum but the search function is a little buggy.

In general folks there like Euro oils because, like German Castrol, Euro oils are true synthetics if they are labeled "Full Synthetic" (as opposed to Group III oils). Also like GC, they have an xW30 that meets ACEA A3 specs. Not that you're looking for an xW30. :D
http://turbofrogperformance.com/Products/Engine/ELF_Oil.htm


And regarding my comment on Ferrari oil sump size, here's a thread on bitog (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1092526) that talks about sump size vs. oil life.

-Dennis

I am going to run the Elf next change and my friend is going to run the Total. We will report back. We stopped into the catipllar Dealer and got an oil sample bottle. He ran Castrol Synth in his Axis race motor and we are going to test it. It seemed to be the best so far in that motor. Most Catipllar tractor dealers have an oil lab onsite by the way.

Clark

knock on wood, ive taken my car up to, and bounced off the limiter many times and no problems. I take it up to 7200 almost every gear until I hit the speed limit.

You mean 2nd? :lol:

I was recently just running amsoil 20w 50 series 2000 racing oil in my wrx.

I ran it during a few winter months. I know it is dumb to use that weight oil in the winter, but it was free, and i figured i would give it a try.

It took slightly longer on a very cold morning start to make some oil pressure, so i would cold crank the motor to make pressure first.

After the car was warmed all the way up the oil pressure would drop to 50 at idle like it would any other weight i have used before.

I just changed my oil today and after 3000 miles the oil literally looks brand new. its not even close to black in color. it was a nice brown color. there wasnt any visible metal flakes in the oil aswell.

And just to make sure i didnt ruin anything i ran a compression test and got 150's across the board. and this is with a 300whp car with 67k miles on it.


I just put in germal castrol 0w30 today, i have heard so many good things about it i figured i would give it a try.

if i like this over the summer im going to go find some 10-50 in the german castrol. of try elf oils.



needless to say the 2.0L is a tuff fuking motor!

I just put in germal castrol 0w30 today, i have heard so many good things about it i figured i would give it a try.

if i like this over the summer im going to go find some 10-50 in the german castrol. of try elf oils.

"German Castrol" is only available in N. America as 0W30. Unless you get the pricey Castrol sold at BMW dealerships.

-Dennis

Lol at this thread.

I spun a bearing in my 240SX motor, KA24E. I reused a timing chain cover from a junked motor. I had no idea what killed the other motor. The old motor had apparently broken its timing chain guide and rubbed a hole in the water passage of the timing chain cover. So when I fired up my freshly rebuilt (stock) motor, water got into the oil. No oil pressure resulted in my spun bearing. So what killed the old motor, killed mine.

I was pissed to say the least.

"German Castrol" is only available in N. America as 0W30. Unless you get the pricey Castrol sold at BMW dealerships.

-Dennis


ya i know, i was planning on trying and finding it off line or going to a bmw dealership and checking it out. its like im on a quest for the perfect oil for my car. i havent used the same oil twice

certainly an interesting thread. just curious, and this question is aimed at AZScoobie because of his experience with jdm motors, what kind of motor oil and weight would you recommend for my setup?

v7 sti motor
gt35r on meth
oil cooler

oil has always made me paranoid...

anyone else can feel free to chime in as well.

found this article i thought was extremely interesting, anyone interested in oils should definitely give this a read through.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/faq.php?faq=haas_articles

Dr. Haas a 550 hp twin turbo Bentley that will be getting Renewable Lubricants Inc. 0W20.
Some posts by him on bitog:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1132989&fpart=2 (scroll down)
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1135311#Post1135311

The sumps on his cars are so big that he takes out several samples for analysis and doesn't even add new oil. Let us know when you plan to follow his lead. :)

-Dennis

I was using M1 5w30 and 10w30. That stuff is *MAGIC* b/c it magically disappears out of my f'ing engine!!!

Not burning, no leaks, just eats it up. Others have described similiar experiences. I just bought 8qt. of GC 0w30 yesterday and will be changing to that this weekend. I hear great things so we'll see. ;)

Maybe I'm reading something wrong, but Dr. Haas is a doctor? Not somebody that went to.. say an engineering school?
I am not sure that I agree with the science behind some of the statements that he makes.
In fact I'd like to see which assumptions he made in modelling the thermodynamic transformations of the lubricating system.
I am speculating that much can be talked about:
Cavitation of the oil pump at high RPM in "thinner" oil, heat exchange rate between the hot metal surfaces and oil, in increased oil flow or for "thinner" oil, variation of volume vs pressure. I wonder if the oil "accelerates" when you rev up, or it dampens the changes into a practically constant speed, due to the viscosity.
At clod start up, the thicker oil pressure-wave from the oil pump start-up might travel faster than the thin oil. This although the thinner oil may travel in a higher volume (flow).

A hotter reading of oil temperature can mean a cooler engine, within limits.
The lubrication system is probably well modelled as an open system. Meaning, the pressure develloped at the pump gradually decreases to ambient pressure by the time the oil returns to the oil pan.
The oil pressure reading is therefore taken at a point where the manufacturer feels that the reading is relevant to the flow.

I disagree with his views about 10w60, from a historic perspective. Alfa Romeo was specifying 10W60 even for non-racing applications, back in the 90's.
Also, in my experience with Italian technical litarature translated into English, sometimes the phrasing is translated in a confusing manner.
I speculate that the translation of the Ferrari spec for 10w60 was probably .. for racing and in hot climate.. not... for racing in hot climate.

Dr. Haas is a physician and surgeon. He graduated from the University of Florida with a degree in biochemistry with honors. He studied motor oils since high school where he did independent studies on this topic. He studied the properties of viscosity.

-Dennis

A surgeon with a degree in biochemistry and an interest in oil and motor related stuff.
I can see how on this board we may have Engineers with a life-long interest in motors, with a degree in Mechanical/automotive engineering, who knows, some who may have even worked in the industry and designed motors (not me).
Or tested them extensively in, or out of cars.
How many of us are our own Subaru mechanics, yet this does not become some sort of academic introduction.
To me Dr. Haas is probably a nice person, a fellow car lover, but only one of many qualified to speak about oil and engine related things.

i just think that its an interesting perspective. Keep in mind he studied flow mechanics of human blood. Obviously ALOT more complex is blood in comparison to oil. I am sure some of the theories go hand in hand.

i've been running ams oil 5-30 but i think i'm going to start running 10-30

Here's a UOA on Redline 10W40. (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1501907&referrerid=767).

-Dennis

It was my engine that spun the bearing! I run Motul 300V 15w50 oil ... as I think it is one of the best on the market. My car has been extremely modified..... from maxing out a stock TD04 (315 wtq/ 285 whp on c16) to VF34 to rotated 50 trim, and T04R! The engine has had a very hard life ... even before I owned the car! I run the car extremely hard... very frequently.
The bearing failure had nothing to do with the gearset, I just wanted to make that clear!
I have a 2.5L just about ready to go in :)
-Dan
Andrewtech Automotive

I"m in the same boat as you. I am prity shure i spun a bearing in my 02 wrx. the motor is tight and barley cranks over

I'm not sure that, by example, if you compare a course in Mechanical Engineering, of Fluid Dynamics with a course one can take in The School of Medicine about the mechanics of human blood, we're talking the same cathegory of heavy lifting as far as mathematical apparatus and modelling theory.


No surgeon can build cars and no engineer can do surgery, if you want a quick logic connection, because while I aggree that the human body is a much more complex system than any car, we are BUILDING the car and trying to accomodate and help the body heal itself and function properly.

This person is probably a well informed enthusiast. There are trained proffessionals around here...And they may be enthusiasts as well.

Ultimately, it's upto every individual to believe this or that person.

(End of hijack)

I continue to run Castrol 5w50, have now 110 k miles, with PPP3, dynoed 216 WHP, some track time too.

0w30 GC all day everyday!!

I agree.