I have been searching high and low for engine management solutions for my '93 Turbo-Leg for some time now. I have found expensive options (Autronic SMC (Plug and play, but no IAC control) and SM4 (even more $$, but loaded), somewhat untested "low cost" options (Megasquirt MS2), and low dollar options (PP6 - limited timing control and less configurable for large MAF/injectors) or just a Apexi AFC.

Now, knowing that the Autronic 94-96 wrx SMC board plugs into the T-Leg harness, I am assuming that a Apexi PFC made for a EJ20G (and/or K??) will also have the proper pin-outs and be relatively P&P :confused:
I think it could be done by acquiring the MAF and 440 injectors from said EJ20_, then starting with a base map from the same EJ20_. (Maybe a couple wires for the ignitor would need attention as well...?)

Does anyone know if this could be done (PFC on a EJ22T)?? I know there are some PFC experienced folks around these parts.

Thanks,
Chad

BTW, my '93 has a catted 3" TBE (CES), custom AWIC, and VF12 (very similar to a 16G) as main power mods

I know that it is possible to run an ej20g on a 2.2t ECU. I dont see why the powerfc the other way wouldn't work. Why not try to find a set of heads and intake manifold from a 20g/k and run that? I'm trying to buy the manifold along with injectors and just run phase-1(96-99)2.5 DOHC heads.

Because we are both looking for engine management solutions, I'd like to throw another one out there, the unichip. Does anyone know of a reputable tuner in the pacific northwest that can work with these?

YOu would need to address the fact that the PFC is 4 channel coil on plug ignition while the Ej22t is two channel wasted spark coil pack.

If you convert the ignition it would be plug and play. You could even scale the MAF and injectors in the PFC to use your stock Ej22t stuff.

I *believe* that you could even use a few diodes to join the 4 channels into 2 and use the stock ignition. This is in fact a pet project of mine but I haven't researched it far enough to know for sure. I'm sure somebody with a electronics background could give a quick answer if they were presented it.

The PowerFC will plug onto the EJ22T plugs if it's EJ20G specific. You need to put pinned wires, TWO of them onto the connector.

They are the TWO WIRES that are UP. in the picture, they are the 7th/8th wires that are to the RIGHT of the brown wire, TOP row. The WHITE/RED and RED/BLUE wires are the TWO extra wires I added to bunch. I forgot which pinouts, lazy me! lolz
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b121/FuJi_K/My%20swap/th_IMG_5809a.jpg (http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b121/FuJi_K/My%20swap/IMG_5809a.jpg)http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b121/FuJi_K/My%20swap/th_IMG_5808a.jpg (http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b121/FuJi_K/My%20swap/IMG_5808a.jpg)

http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~v/ecupins/
F47.8 and F47.9 are the other two cylinders

what about greddy emanage

Chad,
I think you need to get head before you get EM. My swapped '91 put down 170whp at Super with the stock Ej22T ECU. That was with an Ej20G and a measily little td04. I converted the EJ20g to run with the wasted spark ignition. It ran 12psi all on it's own with no adjustment for boost control. AFR's were near perfect. It really was quite surprising how well it did. I don't think the Ej22T ECU gets enough credit.

So, my advice would be to find some EJ20G heads with manifold and injectors and install those. After you've done that, if you want to push it further, then you will be all ready to use the Ej205 coils with their built in ignitor and THEN install the PowerFC. Right now, I think it's a cart before the horse thing. You can't push a rope. You've got to pull it.

ps. I've got a new car. It has no horn, which is why you haven't noticed me. Teal '93 Impreza wagon with 5 spoke goldies. I still pass you on 95th a couple times a week. Watch for the shocker... ;)

ps. I've got a new car. It has no horn, which is why you haven't noticed me.

Hahaha. I make alot of noise at people when I want them to see me. I can't stand not having a horn in my ride.

Chad,
I think you need to get head before you get EM.

amusing typo

amusing typo
EM = eventually married?
:sadbanana:

Yeah, the "get head" comment was golden.... :)


Anyways - Thanks for the inputs. I know the EJ20G heads would be a good upgrade and would allow for more tuning options. My thought was to push the current mechanical setup via EM before moving into the head/manifold, mainly due to the engine only having 103,xxxmi - I'd rather upgrade the heads when the stockers are futher down the mileage road.

Now that might not make sense. But After seeing Johns (Klienkid) VF12/Autronic equiped, stock head/cam, EJ22T car put down 300wtq and ~220whp, I was aiming at EM as the next way to get more power.

I need to get to Super for a basline myself. IB 165-170whp and >200wtq (maybe 220...)


I need to look into Fuji K's post ^^^ more to see if I can decipher what it means, but it looks promising!

-Chad

Fuji's pic is showing where to add the 3rd and 4th ignition channels into the harness. If your keeping the Ej22T heads and the wasted spark ignition, you still need to deal with getting a 4 channel ECU to drive 2 channels of ignition.

I've got a thread on LegacyCentral on this now. Hoping to get a few electronics minds in the game. I'll post here if an answer appears.

Cool. I've been looking into some of the threads related to using a EJ20G ECU on a T-Leg over on L-Central as well.

Outside of the 2 vs. 4 coil issues, it sounded like there was a strange interaction between the EJ20G ECU and the EJ22T IAC. Some who had tried it (using the jdm ecu)had idle issues, but I KNOW that other have run the EJ20G IAC with a EJ22T ECU (like Matt ^^). You would think that if it worked one way it would work the other....


grrrr electronics :D haha - mechanical things make more sense in my head, but tuning goes a LONG way toward making power


Other options mentioned above:
Unichip - virtually no one tunes them anymore and apparently you need a special licenced program to do so...
Emanage - have read both good and bad things. It is cheap, and appears to have lots of features - but it is rarely used in Subaru land (unlike the PFC or Autronic)

amusing typo

Twasn't a typo...:devil::banana::disco::alien:

Cool. I've been looking into some of the threads related to using a EJ20G ECU on a T-Leg over on L-Central as well.

Outside of the 2 vs. 4 coil issues, it sounded like there was a strange interaction between the EJ20G ECU and the EJ22T IAC. Some who had tried it (using the jdm ecu)had idle issues, but I KNOW that other have run the EJ20G IAC with a EJ22T ECU (like Matt ^^). You would think that if it worked one way it would work the other....


grrrr electronics :D haha - mechanical things make more sense in my head, but tuning goes a LONG way toward making power


Other options mentioned above:
Unichip - virtually no one tunes them anymore and apparently you need a special licenced program to do so...
Emanage - have read both good and bad things. It is cheap, and appears to have lots of features - but it is rarely used in Subaru land (unlike the PFC or Autronic)

We've got a local Autronic expert here in CO. And he's a great guy as well. Not cheap, but a great solution. I am working on a car that's going 6 cylinder twin turbo and it's what we've chosen for the project...

I'll bump in this thread as well, as I want an EM solution that is going to work, and not really be a half ass'd approach.

If the PFC will allow tuning of the fuel & timing maps in the EJ20, I don't mind swapping to a 4-channel ignition system.

Ultimately I would like retain the stock ECU functionality, but have the ability to control/modify the following parameters within the ECU:

-Fuel
-Timing
-Boost
-Fuel cut

Would the PFC allow for these things?

yes its a standalone

Matt - Yeah, I know Harvey is the Autronic MAN. Which makes that route very tempting....

hmmm, $900-1000 (used PFC w/ commander) and "fumble" through some install woes and some tuning (and/or pay for a few hours of tuning) - though tuning would be fun too for me :) - learn some new flippin' skills

OR

~$2200 for a SM4 + smart adaptor ($???) and have a great tune done by Harvey (relatively fast)

Both also require injectors, and a WB O2. The PFC would need a new MAF too ('cause mine is at the limit - hence why I am looking for EM). The PFC is winning in my book. (I have a house to "mod" as well so $$ is a consideration, but like Josh I don't want to half-ass the EM and not have the results I want.)



Josh - I do believe that the PFC has ultimate control of all those variables. From my limited searching it sounds like the EJ20G guys can do just about anything with it.


And Matt - I saw the green wagon on goldies last week. My eye to brain connection happened just as you were passing by... I'll be on the lookout!

~$2200 for a SM4 + smart adaptor ($???) and have a great tune done by Harvey (relatively fast)

And Matt - I saw the green wagon on goldies last week. My eye to brain connection happened just as you were passing by... I'll be on the lookout!

Have you spoken directly to Harvey about your needs? I only ask because he personally owns a '94 SS that he's going to want to make into a monster. He has a certain motivation to go through this process and get it dialed and sorted out. As such, he may be in a position where he provides quite a bit more of his personal time to the project than he will bill you for. And once he does one, he's got base maps of some sort. This only lets him push into the market further. Of course, I don't speak for him and can promise nothing, but I am just saying that a serious conversation with the man is in order because it might surprise you where the cost really comes out and you may have made some erroneous assumptions...

Yeah, I saw the recognition. Since I launched out on my own, I am not always on 95th at the same time everyday, but I make it to town most days...

Matt,

No I haven't spoken with him about this in particular, so you are right, I am making some big assumptions (which may be wrong). I did get some basic Autronic info from him in the EM forums, but no specifics on cost, etc....I just figure that, like everything else, it costs more than you think and takes longer than you want.

But I will talk with him. At least chat with him via PM's or the like.


I'll PM you about your entreprenuerial endevours...

I see the Unichip piggyback popping up, in relation to the PowerFC.
I had the Unichip, and now I have the PFC, and it's no comparison.

PFC has a Datalogging function (tru the FC-Datalogit= aftermarket mapping hard/software)

PFC is a true standalone, while the UC only alters signals.Problem is, for example,timing
You can only add or subtract from the base number, but you get no information what that basenumber actually is.

The PFC has real-time mapping.
Datalog, change, and just click update.Done.
The Unichip is way more awkward
Datalog,stop, write a new program, flash, restart and test.
If it isn't good, redo all of the above, while with the PFC you can map on the fly.

And even better, If you look around (The UK,,for example) prices are more near the 650-700 dollar mark.

Same about the OEM mapping hard/Software.
Way to expensive, and only available tru authorised dealers.
Luckily some Newzealand company cracked it, and offer their own interface (http://www.fc-datalogit.co.nz/ )
Costs way less, does more, and is available to everybody who wants it.

Josh - I do believe that the PFC has ultimate control of all those variables. From my limited searching it sounds like the EJ20G guys can do just about anything with it.

I talked to one of the local subaru tuners down here in Houston. They have a pretty good reputation, so I would more then likely use them. I do think stand alone is probably the way I'm going to have to go to get the functionality I want. I'm working on making a list of the inputs & outputs for the stock ECU so I can get an idea of how many additional outputs whether PWM or just on/off I may need to retain some of the stock ECU's functionality/drivability.

The tuner down here suggested I look at Link, Autronic, and Haltech. He did mention that the world wide distributor for Autronic quit recently, so finding Autronic products may become more difficult, plus he mentioned their customer support was so-so.

I'll be doing some homework on the various models for Link, Autronic, & Haltech, and will have to look into the PFC as well. Definitely keep us posted on anything you find out. I don't want to say money is no issue, but I don't mind spending a little extra to get a better solution.

It's done. I've now got a EJ20G Power Fc running an otherwise stock Ej22t. 2 channel ignition and wasted spark coil are untouched.

It was a bit of a hassle to research and figure out, but in the end the solution was suprisingly simple and elegant.

Thread here : http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=35093

How-to thread will be posted on Legacy Central soon.

Nice!!!

didnt read all, will wen have time, but pfc isnt 1000 for used, i'd sell you a new one for that much. lol
just get the ecu it self and datalogit, that would be 1000, or ecu it self and get it tuned, you would be able to mess with it though. i got ver2 new pfc with commander :) rare...i know