I assume they're very new, but FP has a HTA GT35R that everyone is going crazy over. It apparently spools much faster and makes just as much power. Does anyone know anymore info on this? Can you get this turbo in a 1.06 housing, instead of a .82 GT35R?

I can't figure it out by the information listed on FP's site. It gives you a price if bought through them and an option to send your existing garrett turbo to them and upgrade it to the HTA compressor wheel for $450.

Link:

http://store.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FP&Product_Code=NTGT3582HTA

any info would be absolutely great!

Thanks.

Im planning on this turbo or a GT30/40. I only hear good things too. Should be interesting.

Between Conversations with Geoff at Full Race and a gentleman at FP I have gleaned this information.
This turbo still uses standard GT35R center cartridges and exhasut housings.
Apparently they use a billet machined compressor wheel. According to Forced performance it has a lower rotary inertia than a standard GT35R wheel, and due to the freedom afforded by 5 axis CNC machining has a shape that is hard to duplicate with casting. According to FP the compressor will move more than 70 LBS/Min efficiently also. Additionally any standard GT35R Exhaust housing will fit. I plan to put a divided 1.06A/R housing on when I get mine, oughta be interesting... Also as listed on the website they provide a slightly different compressor housing which apparently has a surge porting configuration which better lends itself to laminar flow than a stadard GT35R housing.

The HTA modification is only on the compressor side of the turbo. You can use whatever exhaust housing you want; .63, .82, or 1.06.

ok awesome information!

so I can run the 1.06 exhaust housing and just send them whole turbo to get the hta compressor wheel?

Does Full-race kits already come with this wheel, or no?

OT, but Adam, which exhaust housing do you run?

ok awesome information!

so I can run the 1.06 exhaust housing and just send them whole turbo to get the hta compressor wheel?

Does Full-race kits already come with this wheel, or no?

OT, but Adam, which exhaust housing do you run?

you'll probably have to send your turbo to FP after you recieve the full-race kit. to my knowledge FP is the only company that does this mod right now.

running the .82

ok awesome information!

so I can run the 1.06 exhaust housing and just send them whole turbo to get the hta compressor wheel?

Does Full-race kits already come with this wheel, or no?

OT, but Adam, which exhaust housing do you run?

FR kits do not come standard with HTA compressors.

no wonder it makes more power. it flow's more air.


duh.

*secret sauce compressor wheel*

Great thread D Money, I was actually reading and thinking about this the last 2 days,

I`am sending out my 35r this weekend, I`am not sure what to do though... It`ll be like 450 for the new compressor housing, and another 350ish for the 1.06 turbine housing,
so with shipping and other cost i`am looking at 1000 dollars...

what do you guys think sell the gt35r .82 and just buy a brand new one?

hmm do they make such a wheel for a GT40R turbo?? or is it only the 35R for now??

I'm running the HTA 35R 1.06 and have been happy with it. Spools a bit quicker than the standard 35R but has alot better response inbetween shifts.

Not sure if they are making a wheel for the 40R but I know they are coming out with a HTA37R and they already have a HTA FP Green which someone posted pictures of on nasioc.

I'm running the HTA 35R 1.06 and have been happy with it. Spools a bit quicker than the standard 35R but has alot better response inbetween shifts.

Not sure if they are making a wheel for the 40R but I know they are coming out with a HTA37R and they already have a HTA FP Green which someone posted pictures of on nasioc.


Id be defintately keen on the 40R wheel.. I wonder if they will sell the wheel separately??

I'm running the HTA 35R 1.06 and have been happy with it. Spools a bit quicker than the standard 35R but has alot better response inbetween shifts.

Not sure if they are making a wheel for the 40R but I know they are coming out with a HTA37R and they already have a HTA FP Green which someone posted pictures of on nasioc.

My buddy! lol

so this is the turbo you just got. I thought so, I couldn't remember, though.

Well you have the best knowledge so far, considering you've ran both. Would you suggest piecing it together or just buying a kit like UR or Full-race and sending the turbo to FP for the HTA compressor wheel and housing?

I know with just buying the turbo you'd have to get the elbow welded on like most of those kits already have done to accomidate the i/c piping.

Bump for more testing and information! Seems like this is the new way to go, almost as beneficial as the twin scroll setups as far as spool is concerned. Well atleast the graphs show....

I have sent a few emails asking if I could buy the HTA comp wheel separately but never got an answer.
It's not feasible for me to ship my turbo all the way to the US and back to Australia again.

I'd like to buy just the wheel and have it fitted locally.

I have sent a few emails asking if I could buy the HTA comp wheel separately but never got an answer.
It's not feasible for me to ship my turbo all the way to the US and back to Australia again.

I'd like to buy just the wheel and have it fitted locally.

agreed mate.. since im over in AUS also..

It's a wheel AND a compressor housing, but I'm guessing they won't sell it as parts. I've had a couple here and the difference is very dramatic when you hold a standard GT35R next to it.

It's a wheel AND a compressor housing, but I'm guessing they won't sell it as parts. I've had a couple here and the difference is very dramatic when you hold a standard GT35R next to it.

Agreed, but for those who plan on running full-race and UR kits, they will not have the elbow piece welded onto the turbo since it seems that the housing is replaced along with the compressor wheel.

If someone were to buy the turbo from FP directly for $1,699 would it even mate up to one of the known rotated kits made for a subaru. I'm not to familair wth it, that's why I ask.

Agreed, but for those who plan on running full-race and UR kits, they will not have the elbow piece welded onto the turbo since it seems that the housing is replaced along with the compressor wheel.

If someone were to buy the turbo from FP directly for $1,699 would it even mate up to one of the known rotated kits made for a subaru. I'm not to familair wth it, that's why I ask.

You could put a silicon elbow on the turbo, I have a UR kit and my compressor housing does not have the elbow welded on.

Agreed, but for those who plan on running full-race and UR kits, they will not have the elbow piece welded onto the turbo since it seems that the housing is replaced along with the compressor wheel.

If someone were to buy the turbo from FP directly for $1,699 would it even mate up to one of the known rotated kits made for a subaru. I'm not to familair wth it, that's why I ask.

The hotsise obviously would mate up. Also the oil and water would be identical. The only question would be the compressor housing, and how similar it is . I personally dont think that there would be any significant fitment issues.

The hotsise obviously would mate up. Also the oil and water would be identical. The only question would be the compressor housing, and how similar it is . I personally dont think that there would be any significant fitment issues.

Yeah, the compressor housing might be the issue although it seems like it could be fixed either way.

You could put a silicon elbow on the turbo, I have a UR kit and my compressor housing does not have the elbow welded on.

Yes, but when you run their intercooler kits it routes the piping in a different way so it all mates up accordingly. I was also thinking that about a silcone coupler off the turbo to mate with the piping or just get the elbow welded on.

Yeah, the compressor housing might be the issue although it seems like it could be fixed either way.



Yes, but when you run their intercooler kits it routes the piping in a different way so it all mates up accordingly. I was also thinking that about a silcone coupler off the turbo to mate with the piping or just get the elbow welded on.
If you think about it, the compressor inlet has to be on the same centerline as a standard GT35R, because all the elements that locate it remain unchanged. Also, the inlet is still 4" like a standard 35R. The only way the inlet could vary is far away from the compressor face of the CHRA. Additionally, you can clock the turbo however you want, and the only difference could be the radius of the housing, which couldn't be too different because it is based of a standard 35R CHRA. I see this fitting any existing kit that mounts a standard 35R.

Noob question. Is 1.06 better than .82? I mean what are the different?

A 1.06 AR exhaust housing will have better power potential at the expense of boost threshold and transient response, while the .82 AR turbine housing will have less power potential, but a lower boost threshold and faster transient response.
Think of a small AR as holding your finger over a garden hose; the volume of flow goes down and back pressure goes up, however the velocity of the water increases. Whereas an unrestricted hose will flow more total volume with less back pressure and less velocity.

pretty excited for all you 35r guys, that 1.06 with the better spool will be nasty!!

Well thats interesting...the new compressor wheel that is.

A 1.06 AR exhaust housing will have better power potential at the expense of boost threshold and transient response, while the .82 AR turbine housing will have less power potential, but a lower boost threshold and faster transient response.
Think of a small AR as holding your finger over a garden hose; the volume of flow goes down and back pressure goes up, however the velocity of the water increases. Whereas an unrestricted hose will flow more total volume with less back pressure and less velocity.

You seem like a very knowledgable individual, so I ask you this.

As a guestimate, how many rpms of spool will one sacrafice with the 1.06 housing over the .82 housing? Also, how much more can one expect to make with the 1.06 housing versus the .82 housing?

I know you can't give me exact numbers, but just a general estimate would be great! I pretty much know just by reading and reading, I just wanted to get another opinion.

That is really hard to say. The closest thing I can give you to an answer is " about 3......." I can just tell you that a larger EX housing will allow you to run with less back pressure. I was worried about taking a hit with spool running a 1.06 housing so I went twinscroll 1.06, so I have no direct comparison.
Assuming your power level is not huge, IE 500+ I am not sure that going to a larger AR would be all too beneficial. However, it can help with maxing out horsepower on pump gas...

That is really hard to say. The closest thing I can give you to an answer is " about 3......." I can just tell you that a larger EX housing will allow you to run with less back pressure. I was worried about taking a hit with spool running a 1.06 housing so I went twinscroll 1.06, so I have no direct comparison.
Assuming your power level is not huge, IE 500+ I am not sure that going to a larger AR would be all too beneficial. However, it can help with maxing out horsepower on pump gas...

300 rpm-ish or so.....?

300 rpm-ish or so.....?

I just threw the number "3" out there to humor you;-) I am not sure as I have never ran a .63 AR turbine housing.

I just threw the number "3" out there to humor you;-) I am not sure as I have never ran a .63 AR turbine housing.

thats what I figured. ;)

You seem like a very knowledgable individual, so I ask you this.

As a guestimate, how many rpms of spool will one sacrafice with the 1.06 housing over the .82 housing? Also, how much more can one expect to make with the 1.06 housing versus the .82 housing?

I know you can't give me exact numbers, but just a general estimate would be great! I pretty much know just by reading and reading, I just wanted to get another opinion.

well from research i did....with the 35r on .82 on pump gas you are looking around 450-460whp...and i know there was a build that was making right around 500whp with the 1.06....the .82 will have a hard time making 600whp on c16 and the 1.06 will get you there and probably a touch over on race gas...

i believe spool is about 5500 for 25-30psi.... b/c most .82 are around 4700-4800 and you will be right around 5300-5500 rpms depending on boost level

This turbo has me interested too. It is 'closer' to gt30r spool with gt35r power. But it may only shine at really high boost. Also there is a big difference between the DB and AMS results:
http://www.amsperformance.com/store/images/35R_vs_HTA35R.JPGBoth are 2 liter Evos
http://store.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/graphics/00000001/full/35Rcomp-screenshot-logo.jpg

this is what ill prolly be doing. with a single outlet 1.06.

I still see a 40hp bonus in some areas as well as a bit of spool increase on the AMS graph. Looks worth it to me.

Anyone see how the HTA does on smaller exhaust housings like the .63 AR and .78 AR twin scroll housing (mine)?

that ams and David Buscher Graph is from evos, which isnt exactly the same world as subis, so its hard to judge the turbos performance off a different motor.. but if results hold equal between both platforms I`d say its a good deal!

I`d Like to see graphs of the .82 hta and 1.06 hta on a subi motor.. anyone have graphs of those yet?

Once I get my modded turbo back, I'll eventually be able to show graphs of a Std GT35R w/twin scroll .78AR vs. HTA GT35R w/twin scroll .78AR.

Once I get my modded turbo back, I'll eventually be able to show graphs of a Std GT35R w/twin scroll .78AR vs. HTA GT35R w/twin scroll .78AR.

Did you get yours up and running again? Did i miss results in the original thread?

well from research i did....with the 35r on .82 on pump gas you are looking around 450-460whp...and i know there was a build that was making right around 500whp with the 1.06....the .82 will have a hard time making 600whp on c16 and the 1.06 will get you there and probably a touch over on race gas...

i believe spool is about 5500 for 25-30psi.... b/c most .82 are around 4700-4800 and you will be right around 5300-5500 rpms depending on boost level

FWIW, I *only* put 390whp on 20psi with my 35r on 91 octane.

octane greatly effects those 450-460whp numbers you're quoting "on pump" :lol:

I also hit 20psi at 4166rpms, full boost a touch after that. 35r.82 gt turbine housing non surge ported compressor housing. stock long block.

I also *only* did 440whp on water meth, but I do believe there was a good bit more left in her. I wanted the stock motor to last me a lil longer. it has 32k on it now.

It's all in the turbo kit as a whole and the tuning.

tuning is key, as there are different severities of how aggressive or conservative it is. Having said that, NASIOC is home to the "conservative" tune. :lol:

Did you get yours up and running again? Did i miss results in the original thread?

Not yet. :)

I'm measuring valve-piston and valve-valve clearances at the moment. Heads will be on by this coming weekend. Motor in the following weekend. Theoretically.

It's a wheel AND a compressor housing, but I'm guessing they won't sell it as parts. I've had a couple here and the difference is very dramatic when you hold a standard GT35R next to it.

Do you have any side by side pics of the HTA GT35r Vs. Standard GT35r?

I am a bit puzzled by the results of the HTA mod.

By the look of it FP are fitted a BorgWarner extended tip compressor wheel, I may be wrong but it looks like it.
These compressors come into their own at high boost levels and are regarded by some to be far superior than the garrett wheels.

It was stated that the HTA comp wheel flows at 70lb/min which is more than the standard gt35 which is 65lb/min.
Normally by fitting a larger comp wheel it has the effect of acting as a brake on the turbine side of the turbo (more load for the turbine to drive).
Typically this results in a slower spooling turbo and slower response between gears.

I cannot understand how FP can run a compressor wheel that is larger than the original GT35 (it is claimed in an earlier post to be 70lb/min), and still have gained performance.

Based on the dyno sheets I would have expected the new comp wheel to be slightly smaller which would reduce load on the turbine, hence allowing it to spool up faster. This would indeed improve response, spool earlier and create a better balance between intake and exhaust manifold pressures.

Maybe its all in the design of the wheel, I'd love to see some actual specs of the comp wheel......a map would be great and it would answer a lot of questions.

FWIW, I *only* put 390whp on 20psi with my 35r on 91 octane.

octane greatly effects those 450-460whp numbers you're quoting "on pump" :lol:

I also hit 20psi at 4166rpms, full boost a touch after that. 35r.82 gt turbine housing non surge ported compressor housing. stock long block.

I also *only* did 440whp on water meth, but I do believe there was a good bit more left in her. I wanted the stock motor to last me a lil longer. it has 32k on it now.

It's all in the turbo kit as a whole and the tuning.

tuning is key, as there are different severities of how aggressive or conservative it is. Having said that, NASIOC is home to the "conservative" tune. :lol:


thats pretty good, yes, restricting flow has a huge part, and how aggressive you get it tuned, i was more or less talking about tunes that are on the aggressive side, but then again every motor is different and the head work that has been done, and the 91 oct was hurting ya

I am a bit puzzled by the results of the HTA mod.

By the look of it FP are fitted a BorgWarner extended tip compressor wheel, I may be wrong but it looks like it.
These compressors come into their own at high boost levels and are regarded by some to be far superior than the garrett wheels.

It was stated that the HTA comp wheel flows at 70lb/min which is more than the standard gt35 which is 65lb/min.
Normally by fitting a larger comp wheel it has the effect of acting as a brake on the turbine side of the turbo (more load for the turbine to drive).
Typically this results in a slower spooling turbo and slower response between gears.

I cannot understand how FP can run a compressor wheel that is larger than the original GT35 (it is claimed in an earlier post to be 70lb/min), and still have gained performance.

Based on the dyno sheets I would have expected the new comp wheel to be slightly smaller which would reduce load on the turbine, hence allowing it to spool up faster. This would indeed improve response, spool earlier and create a better balance between intake and exhaust manifold pressures.

Maybe its all in the design of the wheel, I'd love to see some actual specs of the comp wheel......a map would be great and it would answer a lot of questions.
As I recall it is a bit smaller ~2mm in Dia, and the cross sectional density is a bit less due to the nature of the blade design; which would explain why it spools faster. Then of course they say the fact that it is a machined and not cast piece that they can get better aerodynamic profiles which helps it move more air than a 35R wheel.

The compressor wheel diameter is 82mm for both standard GT35R and the HTA, according to each site (ATP Turbo and Forced Perf). I read that the HTA wheel is lighter, so has less inertia. If the overall design is more efficient, I can see how these factors can allow quicker spool and more power.

While checking in to the HTA, I stumbled across this pic/post:


http://www.picturehosting.com/images/dasani/dsc00153.jpg

Top left is a HTA35 and the top right is a GT35R. The HTA has the same exducer size. The inducer is about 3mm smaller. The hub of the wheel is half the size of 35R. This makes the blades much bigger. The wheel is much lighter because so much mass was removed from the hub and inducer diameter is smaller. This coupled with there being 14 blades instead of 12 allows the turbo to spool faster and move more air sooner. The turbine shaft doesn't have to spin as fast to move X amount of air so back pressure at the turbine is reduced.

The bottom two wheels are Mitsubishi 24V and 25G wheels. The 25G shares same traits as 35R, the 24V shares same traits as HTA35.

What does HTA stand for?

What does HTA stand for?

From what I've read, it's not an acronym for anything. It supposed to be just revision tracking letters that where used while working on the compressor wheel.


-D

Nice find Dasani!
If you don't mind me asking what size AR exhaust housing are you running on your rig? I know that you got a larger one than the standard APS kit includes because of back pressure, just wondering how large.

If you don't mind me asking what size AR exhaust housing are you running on your rig? I know that you got a larger one than the standard APS kit includes because of back pressure, just wondering how large.

I'm using a 1.06 A/R turbine housing.


-D

Sweet!!! The FP is selling a full GT3076HTA Turbo right? So the HTA compressor side is replaced with the????? What is the normal one? Is this still ball-bearing? When it comes to a turbo being changed with different parts I am confused.

They replace just the compressor wheel and compressor housing.

The rest of the center section, turbine wheel and exhaust housing remain the same.

I'm using a 1.06 A/R turbine housing.


-D
I will just chalk it up to the fact that great minds think alike, I have the same housing;-)
How many RPM's later was your boost threshold, and how was the transient response compared to the standard housing?

What does HTA stand for?

it stands for Hot Tight Ass :banana:

Sweet!!! The FP is selling a full GT3076HTA Turbo right? So the HTA compressor side is replaced with the????? What is the normal one? Is this still ball-bearing? When it comes to a turbo being changed with different parts I am confused.

I'll try to answer some of your questions.

Yes FP is selling a GT3076 HTA turbo:

http://store.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FP&Product_Code=NTGT3076HTA&Category_Code=Turbo-FP

Both the GT35R HTA and GT30R HTA turbos start off as standard Garret turbos. FP replaces the compressor wheel and compressor housing with the HTA wheel and their anti-surge compressor housing. This makes it a GT30R/35R HTA turbo.

If there is a "R" in the name of the turbo, then it is ball bearing. Yes the GT35R and GT30R are both ball bearing.

You should read the turbo tech on garrett's website, it's very informative:

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/tech_center.html

i am extremely anxious to see the results of the HTA upgrade. so far it seems as though the benefits are worth the money, which is really the question we all want answered.

i am currently running a ur gt35r on a 2.0l, so anything that can reduce spool time slightly is huge for me.

i am also curious to know how the new compressor reacts to surge, as i do not run a bpv/bov.

bump!

Quick question to anyone who can help!

Should I send my existing gt3582r to fp to get an HTA wheel/housing for $450 or purchase a new one for $1,699 and sell mine? What would an average GT3582R 1.06 sell for with 9k on it, no shaft play what so ever. THX in advance!

I would just send it in.... it will be basicly a brand new turbo after that.

but they don't touch the exhaust housing, wouldn't it be reccomended to replace the seals and rebuild the whole turbo? or no?

I need to call FP, too bad it's like pulling teeth to get in touch with someone there. Can anyone clarify, do they really put a whole new compressor housing on the turbo?

Are your seals bad, making you think you need a rebuild of your CHRA? If your turbo is in good shape, then just send it in for the new compressor housing & wheel and call it a day.

nah they're fine, just something someone reccomended to do since I was sending it out anyways.

Any idea what the turbo may be worth?

Then don't worry about the CHRA... They are not technically rebuildable anyway.

A used GT35R is probably worth between $900 and $1000, depending on condition and finding the right buyer.