Tough Times at the 2008 STPR
Story by Jeff Zurschmeide, Photos: Rally America

http://subieclub.com/uploads/1207095601/gallery_2_2_471.jpg

For a replay of Driving Sports' Live coverage of STPR 2008, click here (http://www.drivingsports.com/blog/stpr-08-live-broadcast.html). Live coverage sponsored by Perrin Performance (http://www.perrinperformance.com/), NASIOC and Subiesport Magazine (http://www.subiesport.com)

If the Rally America teams thought their trials and tribulations were safely left behind in Oregon, they received a rude awakening at this week’s Waste Management Susquehannock Trail Performance Rally. “Waste management” was an appropriate name for the event, as the destruction tour that is the 2008 Rally America season continued at full throttle.

Starting from the top of the seed list, Subaru Rally Team USA arrived with two new 2008 STI hatchbacks. The new rally machines showed up straight from the shop, apparently without much testing time to shake the bugs out. This may prove to be the team’s undoing for the year, because before the paint was even dry the rear suspensions on both cars failed in spectacular fashion.

The early season juggernaut of Ken Block and Alex Gelsomino sputtered to a halt in Oregon with a DNF, and faltered again on stage 2 in Pennsylvania. According to rally control reports, the rear lower control arms failed and left the former points leaders stranded by the side of the road. This ended their national hopes for the weekend, but the veteran rallyists came back to contest the regional event the next day. Oregon Trail winner Travis Pastrana and co-driver Derek Ringer experienced similar troubles on stage 2, but made it back to service for repairs and were not time-barred.

But any joy in the Subaru team pits was short-lived, as Pastrana/Ringer rolled their brand new rally car on stage 4 first thing the following morning, and the car caught fire. As if that wasn’t enough, Ringer was slightly injured while setting out the warning triangles. The red cross was displayed, ending the stage competition and any hopes of salvaging this weekend for SRTUSA. Ringer was reportedly treated and released.

Stage 4 also took a bite out of several other top teams. Andrew Pinker and Robbie Durant had trouble with burnt intercooler hoses, Tanner Foust and Chrissie Beavis also had engine problems, as did Kyle Sarasin and Mikael Johansson during the first day’s stages. Luckily, all were able to keep going. Rally America points leaders Andrew Comrie-Picard and Marc Goldfarb did some damage to the rear end of their Mitsubishi Evo, and they were also able to continue at a reduced pace.

The next several stages were no kinder to the competitors. Among the many who fell by the wayside were Dave Mirra and Alexander Kihurani, the unofficial “third car” of SRTUSA. The two went off the road on stage 7. Comrie-Picard/Goldfarb’s Mitsubishi Evo blew its engine on stage 8. Sarasin/Johansson also succumbed to their earlier mechanical difficulties. Among those cars still running, Antoine L’Estage and Nathalie Richard in their unique Hyundai Tiburon, Foust/Beavis, and Pinker/Durant were all facing mechanical issues of one kind or another, and limping along towards the finish.

The storm of trouble bypassed one car. The Hankook Tire Subaru WRX of Matt Johnson and Jeremy Wimpey earned two back-to-back Production GT titles in 2006 and 2007, and this team has been looking to move up the standings in Open class this year. As the rally wore on to the end, they were sitting third behind L’Estage/Richard and Foust/Beavis. Given the induction problems on both of the leading cars, Johnson/Wimpey had a real shot at the top spot this weekend.

But at the last service, L’Estage/Richard were able to get a replacement turbo installed, which did not quite fix their problems, but allowed them to bring home their second win of the season, having previously won the season opener Sno*Drift rally back in January. Foust/Beavis finished the rally hot on their heels, just 17 seconds behind. Johnson/Wimpey turned in a strong third place finish 1 minute and 51.6 seconds behind the leader. Pinker/Durant finished in fourth place, 4 minutes down. Fifth place went to the 2006 Mitsubishi Evo IX of William Bacon and Peter Watt, 4 minutes, 43.2 seconds behind L’Estage/Richard.

In Production GT, the 2004 Subaru WRX of Stephan Verdier and Scott Crouch was missing from this event - still suffering from damage sustained at Oregon Trail. The 2002 WRX of Patrick Moro and Mike Rossey ended the weekend with top honors in the class, followed by Robert and Mariusz Borowicz, also in a 2002 WRX. The remaining national PGT teams of Jaroslaw Sozanski and Bartosz Sawicki, Heath Nunnemacher and Kim DeMotte, and Travis and Terry Hanson all failed to finish the Susquehannock Trail.

http://www.rally-america.com/thumb.php?pic=2505&max=600

Group 5 honors went to John Conley and Karen Wagner as the sole surviving entry in that class. Group 2 was won by Silvio Alva and Benjamin Slocum in their 1994 Nissan Sentra SE-R, followed by Don Conley and Heidi Nunnemacher in a 1998 Volkswagen GTI. There were no Production class entries in the national race.

Looking over the stage-by-stage results, the second place team of Foust/Beavis won six of the 13 total stages, and finished second on three more. The winning team of L’Estage/Richard won only two stages, but finished second on four more stages, and finished third on four stages. Pinker/Durant won three stages, and Sarasin/Johansson won a single stage. Block/Gelsomino won stage 8 as a regional entry, followed by the remarkable regional entry of Adam Markut and Christopher Gordon in a 1993 Eagle Talon. Johnson/Wimpey placed third on 5 stages, consistent with their podium finish.

The outstanding characteristic of this rally was its unpredictability - both overall and on any given stage. With Pastrana/Ringer out of the picture and Block/Gelsomino coming and going, this was anyone’s race to win. The stage-by-stage results are less consistent than in any rally in the past several years - a team might be in first place on one stage, then at the bottom of the pack on the next. And there’s a good reason for that.

The 2008 season has been harder on the equipment and less predictable than the same rallies last year because the level of competition in Rally America rises each year. Every year there are more teams capable of running at the top of the chart, so each team has to raise its game to stay at the front. Rally racing is already run on the ragged edge of control, so more teams find the far side of that edge on every stage at every event.

It was only two months ago that Ken Block and Alex Gelsomino seemed destined to dominate the 2008 championship, but that prediction now looks older than a Mitt Romney campaign poster. Yet Pastrana currently sits second by a single point, and Block/Gelsomino are third by just 3 points. Comrie-Picard/Goldfarb have barely managed to hold their lead, but their DNF in Pennsylvania is profoundly frustrating. “Don’t ask me how I feel. It’s complicated. Rally car racing is one of the toughest motorsports there is. Every team has its share of difficulty in a season and now we’ve had ours. We’ll be back on the podium at the next rally,” said Comrie-Picard after the race.

As the summer draws near, invitations are being finalized for August’s X Games competition near Los Angeles, California. Twelve teams will be invited to compete. As last year’s podium finishers, Foust/Beavis, Pastrana/Ringer, and Block/Gelsomino are automatically invited back. Six other teams leading in the overall points will also get invitations, including Comrie-Picard/Goldfarb, Johnson/Wimpey, L’Estage/Richard, Sarasin/Johansson, Moro/Rossey and Conley/Conley. A wildcard team will be selected at next month’s New England Forest Rally, and then Rally America officials will issue the final two invitations at their discretion. Pinker/Durant certainly deserve an invitation; they just cannot seem to catch a break this spring.

Now attention shifts northward along the Atlantic seaboard, where the next event on the Rally America calendar is the New England Forest Rally on July 11-12. Travis Pastrana and Christian Edstrom won this rally last year, followed by Antoine L’Estage and Nathalie Richard. With Subaru Rally Team USA’s bad luck and L’Estage’s magic touch this year, it could be time for a new face at the top of the standings.

o geez:rolleyes:

nutterz!

You bring a car that ugly, you better at least win.

Hopefully they just need to be sorted out. Even though they're ugly, they're OUR ugly.

That totally blows man.

We get this brand new car that is suppose to be uber better and what happens?
The suspension falls off the back and some how our vet rally drivers roll one....

I am starting to loose faith in Subaru...

the cars did very well when running....

sounds like they have an issue with the strength in the rear suspension parts that needs to be addressed.


Like I didn't see that coming. The stock rear suspension has been the source of a lot of suspension slop from the articles I've read.


must say I'm surprised with how well ken and travis are performing.

To all the naysayers: This was really the first test of the new platform. How can you speak so poorly without proper testing and so forth. Of course there will be problems the first couple times out. Look at most new model year cars, the whole first year is just working bugs out of the new car.

Why should it be any different for rally cars?

I have no doubt the new car will do very well once they get them sorted.

I took this video while following Pastrana back to service on Friday. When they say suspension failure, they are not kidding:

Pastrana's Suspension Drama (http://www.intertrick.org/nasioc/images/stpr_08/mov/pastrana_broken_1/)

http://www.intertrick.org/nasioc/images/stpr_08/picts/STPR_Day_1_3.jpg

new subarus are garbage!.. ugly what happened to that focus? hehe j/k i know its a wrx

my internet explorer, ironically crashed after attempting to post this: :mad:

that hatchback design has been the heart of ridicule, rally and race catastrophe, discomfort, noise, crazy handlng, pretending to be fast, because its like looking over a short hood at 60mph...

and subaru reincarnates it...

of all the lack of documentation of thier good vehicles, self extinctive bizarre of said good designs...all thier little secrets...all thier true evolution...why why why is that car design back on earth...
I know japanaese is out of touch with large communication..but this leap and bound into futuristic is simply retarded and backwards. For a regular persons sake, I am glad it is pros getting to test it to max, and possibly hurt themselves. (it is thier jobs, really)
crazier than 5 main bearings, and an egr valve ...

that blows. But I'm sure once all the bugs are worked out it will be an excellent rally car.

And there was much fail...but hope for future success.

crazier than 5 main bearings, and an egr valve ...

5 main bearings is better. END OF STORY. I'm so sorry you can't get over the switch, but I think it's about time to bury the damn hatchet. It's been almost 20 years since the EJ-series first appeared.

Block and Gelsomino were in their '07 car in Oregon, that article makes it sound like the new hatches were here. They definitely didn't have them at the special stages at PIR and I highly doubt they were just brought out for the woods on Sat and Sunday.
Block and Gelsomino had their night lighting set up come off the hood, go under the front tires right before a right hand turn so they couldn't brake, and they slammed head on into a 4 ft diameter boulder. The car still ran, they backed it up and finished the stage, which was super short at barely over a minute.
I would have liked to see the hatches here, that's for sure.

That's funny Pat Richard had no problems in his Rocket Rally built 08 STi over a week ago.

http://www.flatovercrest.com/2008/05/richard-takes-w.html

That's funny Pat Richard had no problems in his Rocket Rally built 08 STi over a week ago.

http://www.flatovercrest.com/2008/05/richard-takes-w.html


Added some more links to the Canadian build cars.

http://s235.photobucket.com/albums/ee99/jay911_50/Rocky%202008/?action=view&current=DSC00150.jpg

I also believe three of their (Rocket Rally) cars place in the top three

You bring a car that ugly, you better at least win.

Hopefully they just need to be sorted out. Even though they're ugly, they're OUR ugly.

LOL - true. Sounds like they didn't end up working out all of the bugs yet...

The new Scoobs seem to be doing alright for Petter Solberg and Chris Atkinson. Petter took second in Ultimate Acropolis Rally, after "going easy" to get a feel for the car. I'm not really into the new design either, but I think it was necessary to stay competitive in the WRC. It seems to be a change forced by the track.

my internet explorer, ironically crashed after attempting to post this: :mad:

that hatchback design has been the heart of ridicule, rally and race catastrophe, discomfort, noise, crazy handlng, pretending to be fast, because its like looking over a short hood at 60mph...

and subaru reincarnates it...



Tell that to Citroen and Sebastian Loeb and the C4 hatchback he has won 4 championships with. ;)

The rear suspensions on the VT cars aren't factory Subaru. That's why no one else with the same chassis had those problems. VT car made the rear suspension on their 08's.

That's funny Pat Richard had no problems in his Rocket Rally built 08 STi over a week ago.



That is not entirely accurate.

The RR cars are doing really well but during the Rocky Mountain Rally Pat's new car blew out the rear brakes completely. Apparently they started on fire and had had to be removed caliper and all. This was on the first day in the first couple of stages. Pat ended up running with no rear brakes for the rest of the day and I believe the second day as well.

He still ended up placing really well even with no rear brakes :lol:

The new Scoobs seem to be doing alright for Petter Solberg and Chris Atkinson. Petter took second in Ultimate Acropolis Rally, after "going easy" to get a feel for the car. I'm not really into the new design either, but I think it was necessary to stay competitive in the WRC. It seems to be a change forced by the track.

Take a look at the WRC car's rear suspension :D New skin, old style suspension.

Take a look at the WRC car's rear suspension :D New skin, old style suspension.

Yep. If Subaru's new 'trunk space saver' suspension keeps failing, I wonder what they'll do with the production car.

I've heard some terrible terrible things about the new suspension out at the Rallyx. Nearly uncontrollable, and completely unstable - theres so much horizontal play in the suspension.

WOW! You are correct mbs627. They are using the old strut setup on the WRC car.

http://www.intertrick.org/nasioc/images/old_suspension.png

that blows. But I'm sure once all the bugs are worked out it will be an excellent rally car.



Looks like they need to work-in some bugeye and work-out some focus.

Looks like they need to work-in some bugeye and work-out some focus.


:lol:

:confused:
"Ringer was slighty injured setting out the caution triangles"

...did he trip or was he clipped by a car?

:confused:
"Ringer was slighty injured setting out the caution triangles"

...did he trip or was he clipped by a car?


Hey was hit by a passing Mistu

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-10/423426/driverunamused.jpg

I hope you guys are right.

I mean Ken and Travis both said they like the new cars after driving them, but maybe that was just press to support their team, who knows.

What I want to know is why there is no footage of what happened to Travis that made his car roll.

Any thoughts on whats wrong with our dual whishbone suspension?

But they did the hatchback desgin because we are getting our butts kicked at WRC to Citroen (sp?) and dumb Ford Focus's.

At least we get to test the bugs out in America and not the WRC eh?

WOW! You are correct mbs627. They are using the old strut setup on the WRC car.

http://www.intertrick.org/nasioc/images/old_suspension.png

It's rumered that Pat's suspension was also modified, maybe someone with first hand knowledge can chime in...

What I want to know is why there is no footage of what happened to Travis that made his car roll.

Because 95% of every rally occurs outside of eye, camera and video sight.

WOW! You are correct mbs627. They are using the old strut setup on the WRC car.

http://www.intertrick.org/nasioc/images/old_suspension.png


oh yeah, I saw that screen shot on GT5 :rolleyes: , unless you have an actual picture of suspension from a 2008 WRC car (not a mock up at SEMA) as evidence, your rebuttal is a :sadbanana: .

Don't mean to be a jerk but you're citing a "rendering" , of the 2008 WRC model.

oh yeah, I saw that screen shot on GT5 :rolleyes: , unless you have an actual picture of suspension from a 2008 WRC car (not a mock up at SEMA) as evidence, your rebuttal is a :sadbanana: .

Don't mean to be a jerk but you're citing a "rendering" , of the 2008 WRC model.

Umm you do know that Subaru released pictures of their WRC rally car already and that is a crop from a side picture of the car...

Right?

In any case I have heard from a good source that the WRC car uses the old style suspension with a custom subframe because of weakness issues with the new suspension in the rear. I bet VT built that stuff after hearing the same thing. They just didn't get it right. But, they will. You can bet on it.

I'd hope they would use the old rear suspension.

poor 08's

I guess red bull doesn't give you wings! j/k Poor subie...rally strong man!

As reported in Subiesport, the rear suspension of the WRC2008, appears to be McPherson Strut. You can clearly see it in a photo we published last month. We will also have more shots of the car in the next issue.

i agree, the new sti looks like a focus, hahaha. but i'm not too worried. i have faith in subaru. they'll pull it together. they obviously just have to work out all the kinks first. but ken block is the ish.

oh yeah, I saw that screen shot on GT5 :rolleyes: , unless you have an actual picture of suspension from a 2008 WRC car (not a mock up at SEMA) as evidence, your rebuttal is a :sadbanana: .

Don't mean to be a jerk but you're citing a "rendering" , of the 2008 WRC model.


A... Render this dude:

http://www.intertrick.org/nasioc/images/shipment-of-fail.jpg

:lol::lol::lol:



That shot is form the www.swrt.com page and it is absolutely NOT a rendering, its a real photo. It was a screen capture that was cropped, resized and darkened for this post.

P.S. GT5, LOL! I spend my time driving the real thing...

I hope you guys are right.

I mean Ken and Travis both said they like the new cars after driving them, but maybe that was just press to support their team, who knows.

What I want to know is why there is no footage of what happened to Travis that made his car roll.

Any thoughts on whats wrong with our dual whishbone suspension?

But they did the hatchback desgin because we are getting our butts kicked at WRC to Citroen (sp?) and dumb Ford Focus's.

At least we get to test the bugs out in America and not the WRC eh?


Just like every time they come out with a new STI, Peter Solberg says that the new car is gong to bring the WRC championship back to Subaru.

The amount of fail in this thread is simply amazing. Sadly the Subaru following has been on a downturn since the WRX was released in March of '01.

Isnt this to be expected?? Its a brand new layout! Sure its a bummer, but its a new car!

Sorry guys...but it had to happen :D


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3020/2582328266_decb477b68_o.jpg


I love the way that the struts through the vent pieces (or lack thereof) on the hood make the car look like it is trying to roll over (at least to me).

lol...this is too much fun.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3024/2582361232_3698dec299_o.jpg

OK then:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/fredsmithh/priceless.jpg

As posted above, the rear suspension parts that failed were non-stock pieces that were installed by Vermont SportsCar. They replaced the new ones with factory parts for the second day, which was why the rear suspension was not an issue for those stages.

And yes, the WRC car is running on rear struts for now until Prodrive can get enough development time into the double wishbones.

I don't think it's fair to say the layout of the rear suspension is going to be a handicap. Time will tell, once those building the new rally cars learn how to exploit them to their fullest potential.

oh yeah, I saw that screen shot on GT5 :rolleyes: , unless you have an actual picture of suspension from a 2008 WRC car (not a mock up at SEMA) as evidence, your rebuttal is a :sadbanana: .

Don't mean to be a jerk but you're citing a "rendering" , of the 2008 WRC model.

Sure, he picked a poor picture to use for that, but thats no reason to jump on him pal. Anyone that watches WRC coverage knows what suspension swrt is using. Not sure what your problem is, bud.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/tzedek/115345605.jpg

I have hundreds more if need be.

I accept that shipment of fail.

My bad, I misread your response to be sarcastic, then you posted a picture I mistook as a rendering. I even went to SWRT and even those look a little too refined.

and thanks for posting the above picture for some obvious clarification for me.

Steve

I saw this car on it's way back to Vermont Sports Car. Last Sunday the truck was refueling just east of lake george NY and knowing what must be inside I pulled right in. He opened the back up to show it to me. I was asked not to go posting it up but I knew it would be here eventually. Pretty nice guys from V.S.C.

I drove past his car fresh off the roll since we transitted that stage after his incident. It looked pretty mean in person. We rolled our car in the 7th stage along with several others, there was a lot of attrition this past weekend at STPR, but I cant wait until next year!

I never liked the new look of the 2008 STI rally car to begin with, Im kinda glad it failed. Its time to bring back the old design.

We were the first team (primitive racing car #233 Eklund/Price)to run the new '08 STI hatch @ Olympus and OTR.

AT OTR I found the lower trailing arm bolts literally falling out!!! I locited and rechecked them constantly...

However...that is part of rally racing you always find something broken, or stuff falling off the car...we always nut/bolt chk. during services...we usually find something...

Keep up the good work man! None of us will ever have a chance of destroying a brand new Rally Car like that? But, I have money to begin with so it's OK. Think about a simple man and trying to upgrade his vehicle, being married with children.:diaf: Just get a little fired up to see somebody handed a Rally Car because of his status and then total it. Its OK. If you are a Celebrity you can do what **** you want too when you want too.

well this showing of epic fail, is detouring, I'm still making my way up to LSPR (Michigan's Upper for those that don't know) its not the most brutal place, but if snow gets added in these cars will really be getting tested in the suspension and traction categories. so lets look to the end of the season, to see where everything plays out at. only then will we know is the new car is bust or ready to win again.

From 2000-2004 F1 Ferrari won 5 World Championships not by revolution but by evolution. I think the new Impreza platform is too revolutionary. They will most likley spend the season trying to sort out this mostly new piece of kit and end up retro fitting parts to help the cause. hope things are better next year.

That is not entirely accurate.

The RR cars are doing really well but during the Rocky Mountain Rally Pat's new car blew out the rear brakes completely. Apparently they started on fire and had had to be removed caliper and all. This was on the first day in the first couple of stages. Pat ended up running with no rear brakes for the rest of the day and I believe the second day as well.

He still ended up placing really well even with no rear brakes :lol:

Thats not accurate either. His brakes caught fire on the transit to first stage (We stopped and loaned the tools for him to remove calipers before first stage).

http://www.flatovercrest.com/2008/05/attrition-hits.html#more

Ideally, for gravel, the cars should have struts. There isn't any way to get the travel necessary out of a multilink setup. There currently isn't (or never has been besides the Evo WRC Step II) one WRCar using anything but mcpherson struts all around.
On the other hand, plenty of cars in CZ, PL and Italy are using the 08 in Group N with great success against maximum group N spec Evo IXs. Evos also have limited rear travel as well but the arms have been revised over the last 10+ years for minimal gains.

The recap video of STPR for SRT-USA has been posted.

http://www.rally.subaru.com/videos.html

Maybe it will clear up some of the lingering questions.

The recap video of STPR for SRT-USA has been posted.

http://www.rally.subaru.com/videos.html

Maybe it will clear up some of the lingering questions.

WOW.
Thanks Dan.

Good video.
Pretty much clears up what happened.

The rear suspension was too weak and looks like it was badly bent on Pastrana's car and much have broken off on Blocks car.

Man that roll that Pastrana did was intense.
Took a turn too wide and hit the outside that dragged him back in.
Man that roll cage held up very well.

A shame that they both got DNFs but like they said was still good for testing.

Keep up the good work man! None of us will ever have a chance of destroying a brand new Rally Car like that? But, I have money to begin with so it's OK. Think about a simple man and trying to upgrade his vehicle, being married with children.:diaf: Just get a little fired up to see somebody handed a Rally Car because of his status and then total it. Its OK. If you are a Celebrity you can do what **** you want too when you want too.

Y'know, this slam on Travis Pastrana is really unfair.

The man is a professional rally driver - he's paid to take the car he's given and drive it at 10/10ths - as hard as he can - and to win rallies in it. That's a skill that he has demonstrated time and again.

And Pastrana doesn't crash any more than other rally drivers. He's fast, consistent, serious, and very very good at what he does. I'm just a reporter and regional-level co-driver, but you can ask his competitors if you don't believe me.

So, "handed a rally car because of his status" - yeah, absolutely. It's not like he's a TV actor or a singer - he's a two-time national champion driver being trained for world rally competition. That's his status.

Do I wish I had Pastrana's job? Absolutely. Although, as a co-driver, I'd rather ride with Pastrana than try to drive it myself.

I've interviewed Pastrana on several occasions and have always found him to be warm, friendly, and down to earth. I've seen the man DNF his car and within an hour, he's out signing autographs with a smile - taking time to take care of the people who come to see the rally. That's a professional doing his job.

Point is, Travis Pastrana is successful in his job because he works hard at every aspect of it.

Rally on,

Jeff Zurschmeide

I'm sure the bugs will be sorted out soon enough. The new Sti is a good machine, but it is not a well built machine. I like the new style and no I don't have any issues, and I do like change. In my opinion the engineers need to slow down and think before they slap parts together just to get their product out there in the mix.

Go Subi
Xander

The #199 car SOA is moving from dealership to dealership in SoCal is different than the mock they used last year. The new version is the real deal. Full roll cage, sparco seats, gutted interior. Plus it's nice & dirty :devil:

The engine bay appears stock. It's running Cusco struts on the front & the double wish on the rear....

Because 95% of every rally occurs outside of eye, camera and video sight.

And 99% of all statistics are made up on the spot... ;)

~ Chris

And 99% of all statistics are made up on the spot... ;)

~ Chris

That would only be correct 75% of the time. :p

In the Subaru.com/rally site I'm stand behind Ken BLock at the very end when he is getting interviewed wahooooooooooooo ;)

Again thanks for the shirts to the guys who shot that video!

I accept that shipment of fail.

My bad, I misread your response to be sarcastic, then you posted a picture I mistook as a rendering. I even went to SWRT and even those look a little too refined.

and thanks for posting the above picture for some obvious clarification for me.

Steve

I think I just crapped myself. Did a 'specialist' just take the high roa....wait.....rereading.....yep, he did.

You, sir, get a :banana::disco:

I think advancement is a pretty critical part of WRC development, both for the racing and for the street cars. I'm glad subaru is trying to improve on their old designs, I don't want them to be like chevy who tries to use the same design for 40 years. Even if some parts didn't quite do the trick, hey, there's always next model year!

I took this video while following Pastrana back to service on Friday. When they say suspension failure, they are not kidding:

Pastrana's Suspension Drama (http://www.intertrick.org/nasioc/images/stpr_08/mov/pastrana_broken_1/)

http://www.intertrick.org/nasioc/images/stpr_08/picts/STPR_Day_1_3.jpg


oh wowowowow:eek::eek::eek:

my internet explorer, ironically crashed after attempting to post this: :mad:

that hatchback design has been the heart of ridicule, rally and race catastrophe, discomfort, noise, crazy handlng, pretending to be fast, because its like looking over a short hood at 60mph...

and subaru reincarnates it...

of all the lack of documentation of thier good vehicles, self extinctive bizarre of said good designs...all thier little secrets...all thier true evolution...why why why is that car design back on earth...
I know japanaese is out of touch with large communication..but this leap and bound into futuristic is simply retarded and backwards. For a regular persons sake, I am glad it is pros getting to test it to max, and possibly hurt themselves. (it is thier jobs, really)
crazier than 5 main bearings, and an egr valve ...

Holy cow, what a moron!! :lol: No, maybe he's right... inverting the hatch into a trunk will fix EVERYTHING because it has SOOOOO much to do with suspension failures. :rolleyes:

At this point I'm beginning to believe they're paying Pastrana to crash test cars. :lol: I keed I keed!

I never liked the new look of the 2008 STI rally car to begin with, Im kinda glad it failed. Its time to bring back the old design.

:rolleyes:

I'm sure bringing back the old (just as ugly) design will alleviate all the suspension issues..... that'll definitely happen... :rolleyes: idiots!

I never liked the new look of the 2008 STI rally car to begin with, Im kinda glad it failed. Its time to bring back the old design.

The 07 rally car had so many problems...

Greetings from Subaru Rally Team USA
This will be the new Username of the team for NASIOC. If there are any questions regarding the team, please feel free to PM.

There will be a post shortly containing official spectator locations and directions for the NEFR at the top of the NESIC page.

The official guide will be posted to www.newenglandforestrally.com (http://www.newenglandforestrally.com/) in PDF form by the weekend.This guide will also be in circulation at the event.

Thanks for everyone's support, and we hope to see you at the New England Forest Rally.
-Dan
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I like the new design, I have been hoping for a hatch STi for a while now (not that I can afford one). Everyone complained about the 06's as well, and now everyone likes them. I think people should just be happy we have a STi in the states,, and start to accept change.
I support Subaru all the way, do I think they should do a few things differant, absolutely, but I am not an engineer, and I do not rally professionally, so maybe it is hard to understand those decisions.

I think it is sad those 08's were ccrashed, but like they said, there has to be some testing. I am sure SWRT will get the bugs worked out, and we will be dominating again soon.

Travis and Ken are good drivers, if you think you can do better, than start going to SCCA rally events and get a sponcer. Prove it.

BTW which channel does the rallies come on? I have not seen rally in years.

I'm not too worried about the 08. Anyone that watches some WRC has seen a suspension broken similarly...rough stages seem to do that. I think its funny that this thread seems to just fuel the 08 hate. Don't worry everyone I'm sure SWRT will work out any kinks in the new cars...or rather they have to or they won't be competitive.

And as far as the person who was ****ting on Travis...so I suppose Tommi Makkinen and Carlos Sainz don't deserve to drive WRC cars because they have wrecked a few in their quest for driving as fast as possible to get a victory for the team? :unamused:

ouch @ front page pic.

Well hell at least they can grab some cheap replacement cars from Mazda i.e. the 3. :)

We were the first team (primitive racing car #233 Eklund/Price)to run the new '08 STI hatch @ Olympus and OTR.

AT OTR I found the lower trailing arm bolts literally falling out!!! I locited and rechecked them constantly...

However...that is part of rally racing you always find something broken, or stuff falling off the car...we always nut/bolt chk. during services...we usually find something...

Yeah sure checking for suspension bolts backing out is always the first thing I am looking at service.:rolleyes: Check yes but expect them to even to be able to?

It's not and hell having seen Paul bend more control arms on his old car than anyone else I know, it's not been concern over the bolts coming out previously - name the last time you saw a GD loose arm front or back because the bolt backed out. If you are having to do so now, that points to a problem with the design that is also likely to be an issue with road cars - that sort of bolt should be designed to NEVER come out due to a number of design features. There should be features in the placement, bolt and nut to ensure that cannot happen

Does anyone serious believe the BS being spun about this new chassis and rally?

If it truly was intended for that, then the WRC cars would be running the same style suspension but they are not because they would not be competitive.

The current suspension was there solely for the purposes of the road car and rear seat/trunk space.

Now Grp N and similar are going to have to live with it. Even the open class cars here are going to have to live some of with it.

If VRT believe the stock parts were up to it they would have used them. On the old cars we changed the struts yes but how many had to change the rest of it to be able to race? You could be more that competitive with the stock arms.

But a non-parallel, pre-bound double wishbone suspension with limited travel is not rally suspension and was never intended to be.

I stand by with the asbestos suit from the '08 fanboy replies.