I searched for various ECUs and obviously found lots of information but I think it needs to be compiled into one thread. I'm planning on going to an aftermarket ECU and I have basically two choices: Haltech E6K or Link2 (looking for an ECU in their price range). I cannot afford TEC-II or anything like that but I think we should compare everything in this thread. Maybe get some pros/cons as well.

Also, I have an automatic if that matters...
My goals: a good 10psi from my T28, nothing too serious or crazy just a cool little street machine. I would like to start autocrossing once my car is tuned (i dont like to push it until EGTs and everything are well taken care of...well duh :rolleyes: ). I would also like to take it to the race track at least once a year. So I dont need a powerful ECU but a modest one that I can play with fuel, ignition, etc. And I'm not totally sure how I'm going to do fueling, i dont think ill need the extra injectors or just get bigger beefier ones.

Also, I'm not a huge motorhead. I have never gone crazy with tuning and have never played with timing before. Thus, I would like a user friendly ECU that will not overwhelm me.

If maybe I missed a thread in my search, can you please direct me to it?

The AEM ecu looks like the way to go :)

It can do anything and everything, and I've seen it going for around $1350 ....

I actually have been planning a day where I can sit down and do an ECU comparison dissertation-type report. It's driving me nuts as well, the Haltech E6K was the top contender, now the AEM system is looking pretty interesting, and Andrew@AMR has piqued my interest in a Link 2 setup as well. The major advantage of the Link2 is that it can basically plug in to the stock sensors, whereas the Haltech needs a few either recalibrated (PITA) or swapped, and the AEM... well, who the hell knows, there is very little info out on it. The AEM doesn't have nearly as many correction maps, though, and here in the land of "can't decide what weather we want" it can go from 10°F and snowing to 60°F and clear in a single day. :rolleyes:

The advantage I see to the Haltech is that I have a few locals that have them in their RX7's that have tuned them for a while and know what they're talking about with them, I also like the software very much (available on www.haltech.com ), as intricate as it is, I can understand it pretty easily.

The Link software (available for download on www.carmodifications.com ) is pretty decent, though it's better run at mid resolutions (looks like crap at 1280x1024). Its a bit tougher as you have to enter actual numbers into the entries to tune, but it's pretty self-explanitory once you get into there. The advantage to the system is the auto-tune mode that will actually tweak your map for you once you get it close, though I'm unsure how good it actually works. The program also has a cool 3D graph showing your corrent map as well... just eyecandy, but still nice. :)

The AEM system, like I said, has fewer correction maps, though I know it will have more of a following considering they are catering to a plug & play market. The software (available from www.aempower.com ) is tough to get into, and it's tough to modify as well considering you HAVE to use the mouse to manipulate most of the graphs. The one interesting thing in there is the individual cylinder fuel and timing trim controls... I'm fairly impressed, though it wouldn't make me buy the ECU as I wouldn't use that - I would tune to the conservative side of full potential anyway.

None of them have plug-in applications for the RS, though. I don't particularly want to hack the crap out of my harness any more then it has been (ITC, voltage clamp, O2 sim...), so that is a big factor for me. I have been considering installing a set of plugs a few feet from the ECU that mate together that would allow me to create an interruption harness, or a complete other harness for an ECU if it controls everything... still thinking about that one... Fortunately I have time to think as I won't have enough money for a while to buy everything I will need. :-/

The ONE thing that is making me particularly interested in the Link2 is that it has knock-based timing control as well. Not sure if the AEM does, but I know the Haltech does not (yet).

I have no opinion of the TEC-II unit, as it is too expensive and replaces far too many sensors for my liking. I could care less about the crank resolution factor. The biggest thing that bothers me about that unit is that you pay all that money and (I've heard) you still need to pay for software upgrades.

Thanks for the replies guys. I would really like to hear someone on the Link2's auto-tuning capabilities and how good it is.

Again...all of these work well with automatics right? The TCU takes care of everything anyways correct?

About five months ago I was talking to someone at Perrin Subaru, whoever they are, about the Haltech E6-K. They are a licensed dealer so I took their word for everything. The guy I talked to said that if I decide to buy a Haltech I might want to double check since they were optimistic a plug and play version would be out soon. This is all I know, so if someone wants more info then contact these people.

For sure, I want an ECU that is a piggyback, not a stand alone. For some reason I just like having the Subie ECU deal with the AC, etc.. I hardly know anything about this new Link 2 ECU, though it sounds pretty nice from what I have read. Also for me it is important that an ECU retain a great deal of the stock sensors, as switching all of them out is sure to be a nightmare.

Although its not a replacement ECU, lets not forget about the GReddy E-Manage system. I think someone on the board is running right now with some success.

Graham

When we discuss aftermarket ECUs and price we need to be sure to include everything that would be needed besides the ECU. For example some have add on modules for everything (Link comes to mind) so what began as in inexpensive ECU ends up being almost as much as other more expensive brands.

I find it interesting when people say the Tec-II is too expensive, then spend $1400 on a wolf/link/etc., $250-$400 on a boost controller, $450 on injectors, $100 on spark plug wires, etc.

The way I look at it by the time you add boost control, aftermarket large injectors, knock control, laptop or handheld unit capabilies to adjust things the price evens itself out pretty well across the board.

I think the primary concern should be who can tune it, and how hard it is too find someone to assist when you run into a problem, rather than price. If you save $200 but the only person who can help you tune is on the other side of the country it isn't worth it in my opinion.

When/if I ever make the plunge to standalone/parallel ECU's it will be based almost 100% on how good the support from the vendor/maufacturer/etc. can help with problems. I know of several peoples who can't get simple issues resolved due to access to tuning gurus. Adding an ECU should make the car more drivable than before, which isn't always the case.

I have no idea what the best system for AFI Imprezas is, so I am not endorsing any one system over others. I think depending on the situation people can be happy with any of them Wolf, Link, MoTec, Tec-II, Haltec, etc.

Just babbling, don't mind me. :)

Regards,

Aaron

PS when I reread this it sounds like I am advocating the Tec-II, but really I don't know if that would be my first choice...

I've used the TEC-II quite extensively and love it. It provided all the capabilities I needed for my 2.5RS-T. I think one of the biggest advantages of the TEC-II is that it comes with a high output direct fire ignition. I can honestly highly recommend this ECU.

I am, however, going to go with the AEM ECU for my Supra. Nick, the AEM ECU uses all the stock sensors. You just pick an input (ie. MAP, MAF, AFM input), tell it the voltage range and whether it's linear or not. If it's not linear, you can program in a custom map (ie. of what 3.5V vs. 4.5V means for that particular sensor). Then you're done and can use the stock sensor. The beauty of it is, you can use *any* sensor you want. The unit doesn't care about whether it's a MAP, MAF, or AFM. There are a TON of progammable inputs and outputs for the unit...I love it :-) Plus, it does come in plug n play for my car.

The AEM ECU does have knock-based timing control as well.

If you look at the AEM ECU, without ever using it, it looks to be an amazing ECU similar to MoTec. Now whether it will actually work as advertised is another matter. I'm keeping my fingers crossed :)

Jason, the designer, has said that the Supra version is the next to be released, then the 3000GT version, then the WRX version. Don't know the actual timetable for the Mitsu and the Subie though.

The E6K doesn't impress me at all. Perhaps it's because I've never used one, but I don't like the software and it seems underfeatured (ie. no knock-based timing retard).

Sean

Ever think of having your stock ECU re-programmed.

Check out the link for Japanese-Automotive in the Group Buy section.

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=154448

I'm hoping to get a Haltech under $1k (shouldn't be too hard, shop cost is like $950 for new), I can get an IAC solenoid to be used as a boost controller with the unit (believe it or not! :) ), and I've got a set of 440's that I bought for $275. That should be all I need for the setup, I will of course spend more doing the wiring and making it all clean, but that is the way it goes and shouldn't be more then a few hundred bucks. There is also a Haltech hack to use the nitrous feature to do knock retarding, maybe a small circuit and a relay to make that work. *shrug*

I agree though, the AEM does look impressive when you're just looking at the program. We shall see what becomes of it all...

Nick, where are you getting the Haltech for under 1k?

I was just playing aroudn with AEM's software and what I found interesting is it has a whole Menu just for Automatic Tranny controls. which is very nice to see for me.

The AEM software sort of seems overwhelming for me. maybe its sort of hard for me to udnerstand it without it demoing it self. the Link software is a little more simplistic. I would like to see how the haltech feels. The haltech wasnt that bad actually. I thought it was rather easy to get to what I what I wanted to see. of couse...playing with a bunch of numbers that mean nothing and actually tuning it with it connected to your car is completely different. I would like to hear from you guys which you feel is more user friendly, or why you prefer X over Y.

*ping*
I think it's funny how the folks with aftermarket engine management conveniently disappear from the AFI forum :p

I've already been working on a comparison of all the engine management units that may be useful for the AFI Impreza. I am angling more toward the Haltech, TEC-II, and the new FJO one (http://www.fjoinc.com/automotive). I do have some insight on the Haltech on a turbo RS (duh). There will be a write-up on my website when I hammer out some details and schematics on some things (and when my server decides to stop crashing because of my CGI scripts).

We replaced the stock ECU and out the E6K box under the passenger floorboard (just needed a few spacers to give it some more room). We chopped the OEM harness and the Haltech harness and wired everything from the Haltech right into the stock harness inside the cab. We didn't really want to spend all that time feeding wires through the firewall and wrapping them all up when Subaru did an OK job of that at the factory. You wouldn't believe how simple it was to actually get it installed and running (at least in retrospect). If we knew then what we do now it would have been a breeze.

Issues:
1. The E6K won't work with the CA-spec Imprezas because of the crank trigger. It will work with the odd 6-tooth trigger and cam angle sensor combo.

2. You will need to install the GM intake air sensor somewhere. I tapped it on to the intercooler opposite the BOV; seems like a good place for it, and practical.

3. You will need to find (or make your own) thread adapter for the GM coolant sensor if you want to replace the stock coolant sensor (and not have to tap a new hole in your coolant line). The GM sensor is larger, but if done right you can custom make an adapter to get it on there and working. Or rip the guts out of the GM one and replace the OEM sensor guts with those. Many options available.

4. You will have to modify your stock IAC stepper motor to emulate a GM 4-wire motor. This is FAR easier than it sounds. Trust me, this one gave us a lot of grief, then we went back to basics and realized how simple the solution was.

I haven't done the fine tuning (still running a bit rich and retarded) but I have been able to start her up these past few days with the temps reaching below 0°F. I do let it warm up since I don't have the tuning optimized for really cold running, but she does idle up cold. Also I will be using the leftover bypass air control solenoid that mounted on the right front strut tower to act as a boost controller. Pretty cool, huh?

I'll post some more info here tomorrow about the Haltech. If you have any questions shoot 'em at me and I'll try to answer.

~Garrett

Andrew - I don't know, but I am looking for a used unit at the same time. Hopefully I can find something, though it's nearly a needle in a haystack type setup. I think AU companies sell them for around $950-ish though, it's just a trick of getting them shipped, etc.

Garrett - The GM air sensor you are talking about is air temp. right?

What exactly is involved with modifying the IAC? Sounds like a couple of wires needed to be split and re-run...

The rest of it sounds like a piece of cake... well, other then cutting & splicing the entire harness together. :lol: Still thinking of using my connector idea for that one, I really liked how Apex thought ahead and did the same sort of setup with the ITC.

So, of all these ECUs, what ones have a really good "adaptive" feature? You know how the stock ECU remembers when it changes the fuel and timing. If it senses knock, it retards the timing, and keeps it this way for a time. Rather than just sensing knock, chaning the timing, and then just going right back to the regular setup. I guess I'm asking about closed-loop operation.

this is taken from this thread: http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=138815

this is to help combine info into this thread... Skidd, you were discussing this with AMR and the Link2 and i think it would be good to quote it for this thread.


Skidd: So is the AutoTune feature kinda like the "Adaptive" functionality of the stock ECU? You know how the stock ECU remembers changes it makes to timing and fuel when knock or something is detected. And over time, the stock ECU will revert back to it's base maps. IS that basically what the AutoTune of the LInk does? It's makes daily changes over time in the event of a bad batch of gas, or a radical change in altitude.

AMR MOD: Yes, that is exactly what it does.

I would also like to add this little info for the 4EAT folks: The E6K can lockup the torque converter. The AEM has a special menu just for auto trannies. What exactly it does I'm not sure. I didn't find info on AEM's site about it.

Andrew, the AEM ECU can control all aspects of an automatic transmission. The plug n play version of the unit comes complete with auto tranny support for the particular car. If you have a stick, then the inputs and outputs used for the auto tranny features become programmable inputs and outputs you can use for whatever you wish :)

Sean

thats cool. i just dont know if i relaly need the feature. the 4eat already performs well for me. when you mash the gas it changes the gear and shifts at redline anyways. besides, i always tell it when to shift ;) can it control the line pressure or anything of that nature?

Here is some technical information about the AEM unit:

http://www.supraforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21445

The inputs and outputs listed there are for the MKIV Supra, but the IOs for the WRX will be very similar.

Sean

No WRX here ;)

thanks for that link though. looks rather nice for the auto tranny. but then again i dont really need to control it, it would just be icing on the cake.

Yeah, you'd have to use the universal (race) version of the AEM ECU. If you *did* use the AEM unit to control your tranny, you could probably do some cool things like wire up an analog knob to control front/rear torque bias :) Or you could program a sport mode and a normal mode, switchable via a button. Or you could use two inputs for manual upshift and manual downshift (tiptronic style :)).

That's just me speculating since I haven't used the ECU yet...but I bet all of those could be done.

Sean

that would definitely be cool. it could be a little knob with a button next to it to lockup the converter.

do the Race versions cost more than the other version?

8 - The Subaru IAC is a 6-wire stepper, or at least it was on my car. Two wires are power and 4 are ground. What we did is disconnect the two constant power leads and used the 4 grounds as the 4-wires that a GM stepper has. Someone posted a website with some good info about stepper motors in general that got us to realize this could be done. We also found a GM stepper motor that is exactly the same size and fit of the stock Subaru motor, but we don't know what the application is an thus don't know where it came from (yet). But yes, the hardest part about the installation is all the cutting and sodering of all the wires under the floorboard. And the air temp sensor is for the intake air charge temp. There is a coolant correction map AND an intake air temp correction map. Was watching the outputs from those sensors and the coolant sits at about 170° on the highway and the intake air charge has been around 10° in the cold weather lately. Correction maps have been working wonders.

I'll have to read into the AEM unit. I don't plan on changing ECUs anytime soon though. The Haltech may not have knock detection (yet) but I think a J&S is still the way to go for that option. This new ECU from FJO looks pretty cool though. 3D mapping is something that would have made tuning just a little bit easier.

Speaking of tuning an AWD load-bearing dyno is suggested for tuning. We road-tuned mine and it wasn't too terribly difficult. You do need someone riding shotgun with the laptop who knows a bit about what's involved in tuning or has Haltech experience.

The Haltech has lots of input/output options, but limited to about 6 IOs to use. Contrary to what some think you don't have to lose AC or cruise when you install a new ECU. The cruise is autonomous and doesn't even need an ECU. The Haltech can do the AC signal intercept if you want, but I'm going to use the AC switch in the car as the master. I'll have to be the one responsible for turning the AC off when I want the power back, not the ECU. There is a simple circuit for an RPM output which I did. Get a trim knob from Haltech to help tune but if you want it connected all the time then make your own because the Haltech one is ugly. I'll be using the boost control feature soon and as soon as I get a better gearset I'll be using the flat shift switch :devil:

~Garrett

Yes, the race version costs more. I don't know the pricing on it though.

Sean

Hey, thanx for that post there Andrew.
As you can tell, one of my biggest concerns is how any aftermarket ECU works in closed-loop mode, and what it does with any adjustments it finds. Everything I've read about the LINK2 and it's "Auto-Tune" feature has been very promising. For most of the other systems, I can't find too much info on what happens in closed-loop mode. Plus... And please correct me if I"m wrong... but doesn't the LINK2 accept a wide band o2 sensor? Thats a pretty big plus for operating in closed-loop mode.

The TEC-II, TEC-III, AEM, and Link2 all offer auto-tune functionality. Unless I'm missing something, they can all use wideband O2 sensors as well.

What's the voltage range and linearity properties for wideband O2 sensors?

Sean

Wideband is 0-5v and the curve can be different depending on the controller box that is used with it and the type of sensor.

The Haltech does have closed loop operation and I am using it currently. Works pretty much the same as the OEM ECU did. There are some correction parameters you need to enter, but it's pretty simple. So if you want closed loop operation with the Haltech I can say it works just fine. I am also currently using the Haltech to run the fans and the idle. The idle still needs some tweaking for cold running but works fine when warm.

~Garrett

According to the Electromotive install instructions, the TEC-II can only read a narrow band o2 sensor (0-1v).

Skidd, that's right...now it's flowing back to me. The TEC-II accepts a 0-1V input and multiplies it by 5 to get a 0-5V range for programming. I wonder if you can use a 0-5V wideband sensor with a firmware upgrade (WinTEC 2) or something....

Sean

I just found a site online that had some pricing for the Plug and Play and Race versions and they were chraging the same for both (1350). Don't know if thats a good deal or not but just thought id share my findings of equal price. maybe it was a typo?

The problem is, the AEM is still not available. I spoke with them yesterday, and they said they were hoping for "..around the end of March.."
Being in the electronics/software field, I know what that means.. :(

The race version should be available right now. The plug n play versions are awaiting completion. And I know what you mean...when they say March, it probably means May/June. :(

Sean

I exported the fuel map data from the Haltech into a 3D map. It's easier to look at it in 3D Quicktime mode to rotate it and zoom in and stuff (not to mention the colors are a lot better) but I thought I'd post an example here. Besides, I was kinda proud of my accomplishment in creating it :D

Let's see if it works...

I just thoguth I'd bump this with this tidbit of info. The AEM unit will NOT be able to control the automatic tranny since the 4EAT has a TCU that controls it. So I also doubt that the Haltech can handle locking up the converter as well.

So in the end, I am going with the Link2.

Andrew - I'm not sure why any external channel couldn't handle outputting a voltage to the solenoid for the converter lockup... I will have to ask a buddy of mine that has been doing some 4EAT testing about it.

maybe im wrong (hopefully) about the lockup converter part, but the AEM and shift points etc. will not work with the 4eat.

I am really like'n how the Link2 is looking. the TEC-II is cool and all but a bit much for a low boost system I am planning to run eventually.

edit: i am talking about the Link ecu.

i had the opportunity to watch skywalker and christoph7...whatever the rest of the numebrs are to his name tune Chris' WRX. they used the same software that we would use and it looked to be pretty nice. i dont know if otehr software does this, but the Link's software lights up on the MAP according to what the car is doing. i watched as they started up the WRX and the squares on the MAP lit up according to what the car was doing. hope that made sense. i thought that was pretty cool when it comes to tuning stuff. helps you pinpoint problems in the map without guess work.

Has anyone heard anything about the Microtech units? I found a place that does plug-n-play units for RS's... just want to research it a bit more.

Bump. What are people's thoughts on current ECU's now? :)

Eric

The LinkPlus is in my car right now. Haven't tested it out yet as we are still waiting on a couple minor parts to finish up some mods to my car.

Originally posted by Andrew
The LinkPlus is in my car right now. Haven't tested it out yet as we are still waiting on a couple minor parts to finish up some mods to my car.

Was it easy to install? what features does it have? do you have to change any sensors like the MAP sensor? does it have boost retard or knock sensor retard? let me know a bit about it :) What did you pay? Thanks

Eric

was it easy to install? all i did was take the harness, plug it into the stock harnass and then the Link. run a vac line (which i havent done yet ;)) and BOOM, done :)


http://www.carmodifications.com/Link_Poducts_files/products-index-link-linkplus.htm

Originally posted by Andrew
was it easy to install? all i did was take the harness, plug it into the stock harnass and then the Link. run a vac line (which i havent done yet ;)) and BOOM, done :)


http://www.carmodifications.com/Link_Poducts_files/products-index-link-linkplus.htm

So for $1,270 I can have an ECU that works with my EJ22T engine and stock MAP sensor without using a voltage clamp? Sounds to good to be true

Eric

1270 if you dont want to pay for a harnass, or if they dont make it yet.

so youll probably be splicing wires, etc. not fun and very long.


also the LinkPlus does not work with low impedence injectors. but im still using low impedence injectors (RC 550s). how? by just adding a resistor to the injector lines. I can give a part number for the resistors if anybody needs it.


my response was a little vauge before i believe... you take the 3 (3 for my 2000 anyways) plastic prong things from the wires, and connect them to the optional Link harnass which then connects to the Link itself.

Yes, LinkPlus is real easy.

Their loom is plug and play.

You need to run a vacuum line into the unit. Simple. Disconnect the cruise control vacuum line from the intake, and run it through the hole in the firewall where the A/C water line goes. You can run both w/no fear of compressing the vacuum line if you use some metal piping to run the vacuum line through. Works like a charm.

The Link cannot use a wideband O2 sensor.

It's best to relocate the rear narrow band O2 sensor to the pre-cat location for best results, though I've run it in both location and didn't see any issues.

Other than the vacuum line, which is by no means hard, it's very simple to install the Link.

The S/W interface is marginal, but I find this true for all ECU products I've looked at. It's obviously IMO S/W written by H/W people. ;)

Note that Big Al, winner of the East Coast shootout, runs a Link and is making some serious power in his WRX.

- Steve

Wow, who dug this up? :)

I now have a Haltech E6K in my car and it's running pretty well. Wiring it up wasn't quite as bad as people would think, though it's definitely not an amateur job. The hardest part so far was the idle air control, and I think I've got that pretty much settled right now thanks to help from a few others on the board with the system as well.

Oddly enough, I'm still trying to work on a ECU comparison for a FAQ here on the board. Once that is done, I've been told an ECU forum will be opened. Finding time to work on it right now is just hardly an option, though. I've already put 5-6 hours into it and I'm just not sure it's the right way to do it on this board as noone is worried about options here and there - they just want to know if it's PnP and if it'll suit all their needs on their vehicle. If it works with a Subaru, it'll work with a Subaru. There might be a small exception for the H6 guys, but they are few and far between at this point.

Well now that we have the proper wiring for idle control it hopefully won't be a hassle for those putting the Haltech in their car in the future ;)

I've been running the Haltech for 8 months now? Haven't had any troubles with the actual ECU other than errors on my part in the tuning which were fixed. There are some things that don't run exactly OEM but then that's why I got an aftermarket ECU in the first place.

If you do make an FAQ on ECUs it may be easier just to make a grid or something comparing options of all the ECUs with each other. Not everyone cares about PnP, I sure didn't else I would have spent a little more for a Vishnu TEC-II. With enough support almost any ECU can be simple to put in, and with those adapter plugs you have it can be all the simpler for people who don't want to be splicing wires.

~Garrett

hurry up nick...

(yosemitie sam) ya mule, ya ya ya ya (/yosemitie sam)

Sorry for bumping the age old thread but it's in the right area :)

is the Link Plus good for one who wants to Turbo the EJ18?

No way can I see it being 100% Plug & Play.