I came across this article while searching the web and found it pretty interesting and straight forward. It is written by a guy that probably owns a shop and has been in the auto industry for a while. It reinforces things mentioned on NASIOC that some members perceive as 'dealership garbage'. I thought the article was interesting because just about everything mentioned in the article has been mentioned on here, only for someone to say "you work for a dealership, you have to say that". It shows that the rules are the same across the board, not matter what vehicle make you are talking about.

The only issue I had with the article is where he mentioned wear and tear items are not covered under the basic warranty. With Subaru, they are.

I am going to save this article and reference it whenever someone gives me 'garbage' again....:lol:

Read on:

http://autos.aol.com/article/auto-repair/_a/new-car-warranties/20080131145909990001

This guy also writes some other pretty interesting stuff, also mentioned on NASIOC:

http://autos.aol.com/auto-repair

I particularly like this article:
http://autos.aol.com/article/auto-repair/_a/choosing-a-auto-repair-shop/20070508093009990001

And I like where he mentions:

Finally, I'd like to comment on the importance of building relationships. When customers and repair shops take the time to build relationships over a cup of coffee, watching families grow up, exchanging gifts during the holidays, or perhaps sharing the loss of a mutual acquaintance ... trust and mutual respect grow.

Crappy article: Furthermore, there are a few service personnel that abuse the system by "sliding things in under the wire," covering repairs under warranty that don't quality.

This is just from the first three paragraphs.

I tend to discount any "professional" writing that is not proofread.

Clicking spell-check on MS Word is not proofreading. When some dumb-ass like myself, from the back woods of the Carolinas, can easily find an error in a published article, it is pretty sad.

That aside, the article is a masterpiece of the obvious.

Of course you are not "entitled" to anything under a factory warranty, except what is set forth in the conditions of said warranty. A warranty is a contract, just like any other, and has terms and conditions.

This is why it is called a "limited warranty."

Other crappy article:"Cars are lasting longer and people are driving them further, meaning more repairs."

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't lasting longer mean less repairs? Where's the proof that today's cars are "lasting longer?" My 1979 BMW 320i went for over 300,000 miles, and lived until ~1995. I still see lots of old cars on the road. I wish I could get paid to spout bull crap like this guy. Certain manufacturer's cars may be lasting longer, but Hondas, Toyotas, Mercedes, BMWs, etc., have always had excellent longevity.

SOTC

I am sure that he is not the one that typed it into the website. I have also seen typos and mispellings in things written by professionals, but to discredit their knowledge because of it is dumb. Besides, I meant this article to be seen as someone not associated with a dealership or brand saying the same things that are said on here and are seen as bull.

You may know what a 'limited warranty' is, but not everyone does, hence the link to the article.

Lasting longer, the way he is saying it, is saying that people are taking care of their cars and spending money to fix them, rather than buying new cars. People with the names you mentioned have always taken pretty good care of their vehicles, hence they last longer.

I have dealt with a few people that think they are entitled to something free under a warranty and even beyond the warranty.

Case in point, a customer had her windshield replaced in 2004 and we paid for it when she bought the car(had a crack in it). She dropped it off with us and it was a sublet where a reputable glass shop did the work.

Fast Forward to 2008.

The glass is leaking where the sealant is. The car is 22k out of warranty and well beyond the glass shops warranty(12 months warranty). She is demanding that it be free and covered because she did not get to chose who fixed it(I told her that wouldn't change the warranty period or policy and that we use that shop being they are very good). We told her the glass shops policy and then she demanded we pay for it. She has spent little to no money with the us in 4 years.

She was told by management that we are not covering it.

Well, I'm not with a dealership and I enjoyed the article. Sure, most of the stuff in there is stuff I've learned/read on here by folks like you Rexy, and Hondaslayer and Blackfang. But it seems that when you say it (especially to someone that is having a problem) you get poo poo'd as just being a loyalist to a dealership. Here is someone that is posting an article based on warranty facts - - and it just supports what you all have been saying for the past few years on here. Maybe sticky that along with the header in this thread!

bf - I certainly wouldn't consider a replacement windshield failing due to materials or workmanship after only 4 years reasonable or acceptable. Even "good" shops will occasionally make mistakes, or perhaps there was a defect in the frame that caused both windshield problems. I'd want to see at least some contribution from the dealership, perhaps a 50/50 split or free labor. The specific warranty/policy of the glass shop doesn't really matter to the consumer in this case, since that's a dealership-to-vendor issue.

bf - I certainly wouldn't consider a replacement windshield failing due to materials or workmanship after only 4 years reasonable or acceptable. Even "good" shops will occasionally make mistakes, or perhaps there was a defect in the frame that caused both windshield problems. I'd want to see at least some contribution from the dealership, perhaps a 50/50 split or free labor.

The original glass was replaced due to a crack in it from a rock when the customer bought the car. Now the sealant they used it leaking water and it is well beyond 3/36k and 3 years beyond the glass shops warranty period.

Here is my question. Why should the dealership pay to have a part replaced when
A. it is out of the factory warranty
B. it is out of the glass shop who fixed it and administers there warranty
C. when the customer has spent less than $150 in 4 years at that dealership
D. When they demand it be completely free

Again, the customers warranty is a contract, and the customer is beyond that contract term. They think they are entitled to it to be free when they really aren't.

The specific warranty/policy of the glass shop doesn't really matter to the consumer in this case, since that's a dealership-to-vendor issue.
It is a customer to glass shop warranty issue, maybe not to the consumer, but that is not what will get it fixed. Just because a car is brought to the dealership and a glass shop fix it, doesn't mean the dealership is responsible for any warrantable repairs. It is up to the people who make that repair and administer that work once the factory warranty runs out.

The same is if you buy a brand new car and want an aftermarket GPS installed in your car and the sales dept hires an aftermarket shop to install it. It is not the Service Dept nor SOA(who has Zero to do with the installation or supply of that part) who should warranty that part if it fails. It is the shop that supplied it and installed it. Same goes with glass when a glass shop that replaces your glass. Would there be a difference if they came to your house? Of course not.

No dealership would gladly pay for this repair 4 years beyond the repair and 3 years beyond the warranty period. Even more so when the customer isnt a service customer.

bf - I agree "D" above is unreasonable given "C"; IMHO "B" doesn't matter one way or the other (as I said, that's an issue between dealership and vendor -- the customer is a customer of the dealership, not of the vendor).

I also agree that there is no *legal* requirement for the dealer to pay.

My thinking is that a properly made and installed windshield should last decades without leaking, barring external damage (actually, I've never heard of a non-defective windshield or install leaking, even on older cars), so something was badly wrong with the windshield or install in question. Unless rectified, this (correctly) reflects poorly on the dealership's reputation for quality service.

IMHO, a smart quality dealership would back its work by sharing the cost of the fix rather than see its reputation hurt. Since 4 years have gone by, that won't be 100% -- maybe 50%, maybe just parts or something similar. If it had been 8 years instead, I'd say maybe 10%. This shouldn't be a big hit to the dealership, since errors/defects like this shouldn't happen very often at a quality dealership; if they do, then the dealership isn't a quality dealership and all bets are off.

Since the dealership had a subcontractor perform the actual work, as the dealership I'd hold the glass shop responsible for most of the discount given on the current fix, since the shop was the one that messed up and has an ongoing beneficial relationship with the dealership; if it refused, I'd consider that as evidence the shop had little confidence in its own work, and would think about looking for a new subcontractor if they wouldn't see reason.

Again, the customers warranty is a contract, and the customer is beyond that contract term. They think they are entitled to it to be free when they really aren't.
Exactly right! However, sometimes it's not the smart play to be a stickler on the contract. From the description, I think this is one of those times.

Just because a car is brought to the dealership and a glass shop fix it, doesn't mean the dealership is responsible for any warrantable repairs. It is up to the people who make that repair and administer that work once the factory warranty runs out.
When the dealership arranges the repair/install, they take on some responsibility to stand behind it. Similarly, if your auto insurance company specifies which repair shop to use for a covered repair, they take on responsibility to back the quality of that repair.

The same is if you buy a brand new car and want an aftermarket GPS installed in your car and the sales dept hires an aftermarket shop to install it. It is not the Service Dept nor SOA(who has Zero to do with the installation or supply of that part) who should warranty that part if it fails. It is the shop that supplied it and installed it.
I'd be pissed if the dealership didn't also stand behind the GPS shop's work -- after all, they were the ones that chose the GPS shop, not me.

No dealership would gladly pay for this repair 4 years beyond the repair and 3 years beyond the warranty period. Even more so when the customer isnt a service customer.
Maybe not. If that's true, then there's a big opportunity for someone to start a high-quality dealership out there.

We will agree to disagree:)

I agree armand1. if they really cared about the reputation of that dealership they would have fixed it. How much could it really cost? The benefit of having a happy customer should be far more important that and hour or 2 of labor. It doesn't really matter how much money that person spent at your dealership. This was work you performed that was obviously not up to par with factory work.

If she came back 10 years later, that would be a different story.

I agree armand1. if they really cared about the reputation of that dealership they would have fixed it. How much could it really cost? The benefit of having a happy customer should be far more important that and hour or 2 of labor. It doesn't really matter how much money that person spent at your dealership. This was work you performed that was obviously not up to par with factory work.

If she came back 10 years later, that would be a different story.

Like I mentioned before and many do not understand where we come from.
Our reputation is just fine whether we ate that repair or not. Cost wise, you are looking at $350-450 ballpark that the dealership would pay for(which is more than what the customer has spent with the service dept after 4 years).

The benefit of a happy customer and how much they pay doesn't matter? I am sorry but it does matter how much a person spends at a service shop if you are looking at free repairs or compensation beyond a warranty period. If you are a regular customer who comes in all the time for service and build a relationship with us, chances are when you need us, we will go the extra mile for you to help you out. However, when a customer has spend that little with your business, there is no benefit in covering this because they are not a customer to begin with.

However, this was work not done by the dealership at all, but by an outside glass shop who is not covering the repair being it is beyond their warranty coverage. There is no reason why the dealership should pay 100% of the repair when they never made the repair to begin with and the car is outside of the warranty period by both SOA and by the glass shop who made the repair.

If they were willing to pay some of it, I am sure management would have helped, but they wanted it completely free.

In Alberta we have laws that state reasonable useage. This lady should get nothing, she got more than alot of people get out of a windshield and its outside warranty.

However, this was work not done by the dealership at all, but by an outside glass shop who is not covering the repair being it is beyond their warranty coverage.

That is one of the big sticking points... From a dealer perspective, it is out of their hands as you mentioned. But as a customer, I really don't care who did the work or who you subleased it to. It was the dealers responsibility to fix a pre-existing condition in this case. The vendor THEY chose to do the work possibly did sub standard work. Someone else mentioned it, but they are a customer of the dealers, NOT of the glass vendor. I've noticed this trend in other industries also, including corporations that will not even take responsibility for other groups INSIDE their own organization. Try calling qwest to talk about a DSL issue. You will be transfered more times than you can count between their ISP/network and wiring POTS departments.

If you pass one thing on to the next person down the line, why stop there? Auto mfg's could pass nearly every single item down the line if you wanted to get technical enough. (ECU fries, well that is siemens problem for manufacturing the CPU chip. paint flaking after 20k miles, well go after dupont, subaru just uses their paint.) A customer would have literally thousands of individual manufacturers for a single vehicle.

its interesting that tires and audio are singled out like they are, and the article mentions that briefly. Maybe because those are generally two items that the manufacturer doesn't relabel? In Subaru's case, what is the difference between the tires and the clutch? Neither is made by subaru, they both are made by well know 3rd party manufacturers. Why do we need to do warranty claims for the tires to bridgestone, but clutch claims go to subaru?

its interesting that tires and audio are singled out like they are, and the article mentions that briefly. Maybe because those are generally two items that the manufacturer doesn't relabel? In Subaru's case, what is the difference between the tires and the clutch? Neither is made by subaru, they both are made by well know 3rd party manufacturers. Why do we need to do warranty claims for the tires to bridgestone, but clutch claims go to subaru?

Tires carry their own warranty by the tire manufacturer and Subaru has no control over that. They use their tires because Subaru does not make their own. That is not just Subaru, that is every car manufacturer. I believe that is something the tire company decided they want to deal with. Subaru can't warranty a tire that has been replaced on a car and have really no way of knowing if it has.

... she got more than alot of people get out of a windshield ....
Do you see a lot of leaky (not broken) windshields up there?

... However, when a customer has spend that little with your business, there is no benefit in covering this because they are not a customer to begin with.

Short term, you are right. Long term, it could hurt the reputation of your business, depending on how many times the customer retells her little saga. Part of the "fun" of running a business is deciding which is more important in a given case. :sadbanana:

... I believe that is something the tire company decided they want to deal with. ...
Yes, the tire companies pretty much consider supplying OEM tires as advertising, so they want to keep their brand name in the customer's awareness. The tire warranty can also serve as a marketing tool, since the customer needs to go to a local authorized tire dealer for a claim, and might even decide to replace the other, non-defective tires while he/she is at the shop.

Was the replaced/repaired windshield OEM Subaru glass? Does Subaru even make their own glass? I know Honda windshields are stamped "Honda" and aftermarket glass doesn't always fit correctly. More likely the glass shop changing the windshields uses cheap products and crap glass. I've had my fair share of windshields replaced from stone chips, etc by my insurance company. But they only pay to have the car put "back to whole". I would figure if SOA originally paid to have the windshield replaced, they would have used OEM glass, and OEM sealant just like they use on the assembly line. Seems like maybe they took the cheap route? IMO they should have stood behind their original product, replaced it with another OEM product, and they should stand behind the new one. After all, the customer paid for Subaru parts, including the windshield, not Safelite or Ryans, when they bought the car.

Customer has paid for nothing the entire time. We paid for it.

The only time I have ever dealt with a dealership/manufacturer when I felt I was entitled to something was with my current WRX. With less than 2000 miles on the engine it developed a cylinder one and three misfire and I did rather demand they replace (rather than repair) the engine. I paid for a new car and I felt I was entitled to a new car.

To their credit the people at Stohlman and Matt Snow were absolutely fantastic in handling the situation. I cannot comment on them highly enough.

Customer has paid for nothing the entire time. We paid for it.

What I meant was the customer paid for the parts, as a whole, when they originally bought the vehicle. If the replacement windshield and sealant are not OEM parts, it is my opinion that SOA decided to take the cheap way out of the situation, hoping everything would be fine and they could "sweep that customer under the rug", if you will. But it didn't end up being fine, and now they should have to bite the bullet and fix it properly. Like the old saying goes, "do it right the first time, or don't do it at all".

What I meant was the customer paid for the parts, as a whole, when they originally bought the vehicle. If the replacement windshield and sealant are not OEM parts, it is my opinion that SOA decided to take the cheap way out of the situation, hoping everything would be fine and they could "sweep that customer under the rug", if you will. But it didn't end up being fine, and now they should have to bite the bullet and fix it properly. Like the old saying goes, "do it right the first time, or don't do it at all".

SOA has nothing to do with this. In fact, they rarely get involved with anything on the dealership service level unless their is a problem or concern with a warranty repair or a customers concern.

All the parts were OEM when they were replaced. The glass shop got the parts from our parts dept and they did the work on our lot.

SOA has nothing to do with this. In fact, they rarely get involved with anything on the dealership service level unless their is a problem or concern with a warranty repair or a customers concern.

All the parts were OEM when they were replaced. The glass shop got the parts from our parts dept and they did the work on our lot.

So why is it leaking? A windshield should last the life of the vehicle, apart from having to be replaced due to a crack from a rock chip, etc. Have you had other issues with windshields leaking after replacement? Maybe the guy who did the install botched it in some way. There obviously is a problem that needs to be addressed. You should hold the installer accountable in this case.

So why is it leaking? A windshield should last the life of the vehicle, apart from having to be replaced due to a crack from a rock chip, etc. Have you had other issues with windshields leaking after replacement? Maybe the guy who did the install botched it in some way. There obviously is a problem that needs to be addressed. You should hold the installer accountable in this case.

The repairs are also several years outside of warranty, if it was improperly installed it should have leaked from the get go, not 4 + years down the road.

So why is it leaking?
I already posted on here why it was leaking.

A windshield should last the life of the vehicle, apart from having to be replaced due to a crack from a rock chip, etc. Have you had other issues with windshields leaking after replacement? Maybe the guy who did the install botched it in some way. There obviously is a problem that needs to be addressed. You should hold the installer accountable in this case.
Like Hondaslayer mentioned, if they did the repairs wrong, it would have leaked right away or still sooner than 4 years.

A part should last a certain time frame, but they always don't do they? Sealant is not an exception to the rule. There is a warranty period, the car is 3 years past their period.

A repair can certainly be partially botched so the problem doesn't show up for a number of years. The proper question is: did the failure happen within the observed range of failure times of factory-installed windshields?

A repair can certainly be partially botched so the problem doesn't show up for a number of years. The proper question is: did the failure happen within the observed range of failure times of factory-installed windshields?

If it did, why would you wait this long to bring it up?

Actually this started happening the past few weeks.

Like I mentioned before and many do not understand where we come from.
Our reputation is just fine whether we ate that repair or not. Cost wise, you are looking at $350-450 ballpark that the dealership would pay for(which is more than what the customer has spent with the service dept after 4 years).

The benefit of a happy customer and how much they pay doesn't matter? I am sorry but it does matter how much a person spends at a service shop if you are looking at free repairs or compensation beyond a warranty period. If you are a regular customer who comes in all the time for service and build a relationship with us, chances are when you need us, we will go the extra mile for you to help you out. However, when a customer has spend that little with your business, there is no benefit in covering this because they are not a customer to begin with.

However, this was work not done by the dealership at all, but by an outside glass shop who is not covering the repair being it is beyond their warranty coverage. There is no reason why the dealership should pay 100% of the repair when they never made the repair to begin with and the car is outside of the warranty period by both SOA and by the glass shop who made the repair.

If they were willing to pay some of it, I am sure management would have helped, but they wanted it completely free.

First off, I had the exact same thing happen with my Pontiac Grand Am, and the dealership covered the part of the cost that the window repair company would not after they admitted faulty workmanship.

Second, if you didn't cover it at least partway, I'd spend the money elsewhere and never again with your dealership, and I wouldn't buy another car there for giving no assistance after someone you referred me to as reputable did a lousy job with the windshield.

Third, what work is actually done by the dealership? Other than mechanical failures that you guys only cover under warranty, everything a dealership does is overpriced repair. It isn't the customer's fault that you are incapable of repairing the window or that you had to send it to a company that didn't do it right the first time. That was your dealership's call, not the customer's. You chose the way to fix it, and in the end, it is costing the customer more money because the decision you made didn't work out. If you got sued, you'd probably pay 1/2.

Think about what you're saying..."If you spent money, we'd take care of you, but since you don't, we don't care...and the warranty says we don't have to."

A repair can certainly be partially botched so the problem doesn't show up for a number of years. The proper question is: did the failure happen within the observed range of failure times of factory-installed windshields?

Kinda like wetsanding and clearcoat failure...or improperly seated gaskets, belts, pulleys, etc.

First off, I had the exact same thing happen with my Pontiac Grand Am, and the dealership covered the part of the cost that the window repair company would not after they admitted faulty workmanship.
What one establishment does, doesn't mean the industry is standard.

Second, if you didn't cover it at least partway, I'd spend the money elsewhere and never again with your dealership, and I wouldn't buy another car there for giving no assistance after someone you referred me to as reputable did a lousy job with the windshield.The money was never spent here to begin with in 59,000 miles. 2 oil changes and a state inspection doesn't classify someone as a good service customer.

Third, what work is actually done by the dealership? Other than mechanical failures that you guys only cover under warranty, everything a dealership does is overpriced repair. It isn't the customer's fault that you are incapable of repairing the window or that you had to send it to a company that didn't do it right the first time. That was your dealership's call, not the customer's. You chose the way to fix it, and in the end, it is costing the customer more money because the decision you made didn't work out. If you got sued, you'd probably pay 1/2.It is not our fault that we do not do those kind of repairs. That is like going to the doctor and he refers you to a specialist because they specialize in that kind of treatment. Are you faulting the doctor? Your post implies that.

Most dealership sublet that kind of work to glass shops being they have the proper tools and experience to do the job, just like upholstery. It is not the dealers fault they don't do that work and they certainly should have to pay for a repair that is well beyond any warranty even when the sublet shop is saying no, it is not covered and beyond our warranty period and even when the customer IS RELUCTANT TO EVEN PAY 50%.


Think about what you're saying..."If you spent money, we'd take care of you, but since you don't, we don't care...and the warranty says we don't have to."Ask yourself this. You own a business, would you fork over $350-500 of your own money to pay for a repair that was never done by you, when the customer rarely ever comes to your establishment for your business, knowing you will never see them again unless it is for something free? Now keep in mind we see this often when people come in and expect something for nothing even when they are beyond warranty. In your case to be fair, are you willing to pay for repairs or replace something for every single person that is in that scenario for free that walks in? I am willing you look at it on a case by case basis.:)

That is one of the big sticking points... From a dealer perspective, it is out of their hands as you mentioned. But as a customer, I really don't care who did the work or who you subleased it to. It was the dealers responsibility to fix a pre-existing condition in this case. The vendor THEY chose to do the work possibly did sub standard work. Someone else mentioned it, but they are a customer of the dealers, NOT of the glass vendor. I've noticed this trend in other industries also, including corporations that will not even take responsibility for other groups INSIDE their own organization. Try calling qwest to talk about a DSL issue. You will be transfered more times than you can count between their ISP/network and wiring POTS departments.

If you pass one thing on to the next person down the line, why stop there? Auto mfg's could pass nearly every single item down the line if you wanted to get technical enough. (ECU fries, well that is siemens problem for manufacturing the CPU chip. paint flaking after 20k miles, well go after dupont, subaru just uses their paint.) A customer would have literally thousands of individual manufacturers for a single vehicle.

its interesting that tires and audio are singled out like they are, and the article mentions that briefly. Maybe because those are generally two items that the manufacturer doesn't relabel? In Subaru's case, what is the difference between the tires and the clutch? Neither is made by subaru, they both are made by well know 3rd party manufacturers. Why do we need to do warranty claims for the tires to bridgestone, but clutch claims go to subaru?

But the glass shop is not part of the dealership. If the customer was concerned about the warranty on the glass, she should have discussed it at the time it was installed. But "what she thinks", and "what should be" do not matter, the warranty is what it is.
I work at a Subaru dealership, and we DO NOT do glass work. We do have a reputable company that we subcontract too (most often we just refer customers to them), and it is no different here. The contract is between the glass shop, and the customer..... the dealer has nothing to do with it.
Why does a company strive to make it's customers happy? So they come back and spend money THAT IS THE ONLY REASON. "Happy customers", and your "reputation" don't matter for **** if the people don't come back to spend money. So if a person has already proven themselves to not be a "loyal customer", then there is no reason for the dealership to spend money from their own pocket to retain them.
Now, here is something to ponder. Let's say that the dealership has a technician that is excellent at installing windshields and they do all their own glass work. Did you know what the warranty would be (at any subaru dealership in the country) if subaru glass, molding, and sealant were all used, and installed by a subaru technician?..................... ONE YEAR!!! Standard Subaru parts warranty, same a if you had a dealer replace a door lock switch. So, with that in mind, why would the dealer offer to cover a repair, that they don't perform themselves, for a longer period of time than they would be obligated to, if they did it themselves? Doesn't pass the logic test now does it?

Offering a "50/50" split is never worth it as a business. If the customer is still pissed off when they leave because they had to pay 50%, then why bother spending 50% for them in the first place? If you are a customer, and you legitimately believe that you are not responsible, why would you settle for paying 50%? You are either in the right, or in the wrong, and if you are in the wrong, then you should pay 100% to have it repaired. By accepting a 50/50 split as a customer, you are essentially telling that dealership "Hi, I am a money grubber, I took a shot, and it worked."

Why are clutches covered by Subaru and tires are not? A few reasons:

*A manufacturer may "choose" to have a clutch produced by someone else, if they feel that it is more cost effective, but a manufacturer cannot choose to make their own tires.

*AFAIK, only the clutch disc is made by exeedy, the rest by Subaru.

*Their are no federal regulations that regulate clutch discs, there are a **** ton for tires. Because of regulations placed on tires, it is legal to hold a tire manufacture accountable for the tire directly. But since no legislation exists for clutch discs, a manufacturer cannot pass the responsibility onto the clutch manufacturer.

Tires are a bad example, because for the most part they are the only thing that comes from the factory that the manufacturer is not responsible for in any way. But just because Kenwood makes headunits for Subaru, does not mean that Subaru makes you call Kenwood if yours breaks (but Kenwood is the one that has to pay for the repair)

But since we are not talking about a factory installed windshield, all of the above is irrelevant. Someone else installed it, and the warranty terms were set forth at the time of installation, and just because she didn't ask, or wasn't told, doesn't mean that it is anyone else's fault but hers.


Mike

SOA has nothing to do with this. In fact, they rarely get involved with anything on the dealership service level unless their is a problem or concern with a warranty repair or a customers concern.

+1.

If the car is out of warranty, their level of "care" is only skin deep.

"Food for thought": If the vehicle is out of warranty, the dealership is under no obligation to perform an out of warranty repair, even if Subaru agrees to cover it. Your only recourse as a customer is to take it to another dealer. This is specifically outlined in the contract between the manufacturer and the dealer. ;) .

But the glass shop is not part of the dealership. If the customer was concerned about the warranty on the glass, she should have discussed it at the time it was installed. But "what she thinks", and "what should be" do not matter, the warranty is what it is.
I work at a Subaru dealership, and we DO NOT do glass work. We do have a reputable company that we subcontract too (most often we just refer customers to them), and it is no different here. The contract is between the glass shop, and the customer..... the dealer has nothing to do with it.
Why does a company strive to make it's customers happy? So they come back and spend money THAT IS THE ONLY REASON. "Happy customers", and your "reputation" don't matter for **** if the people don't come back to spend money. So if a person has already proven themselves to not be a "loyal customer", then there is no reason for the dealership to spend money from their own pocket to retain them.
Now, here is something to ponder. Let's say that the dealership has a technician that is excellent at installing windshields and they do all their own glass work. Did you know what the warranty would be (at any subaru dealership in the country) if subaru glass, molding, and sealant were all used, and installed by a subaru technician?..................... ONE YEAR!!! Standard Subaru parts warranty, same a if you had a dealer replace a door lock switch. So, with that in mind, why would the dealer offer to cover a repair, that they don't perform themselves, for a longer period of time than they would be obligated to, if they did it themselves? Doesn't pass the logic test now does it?

Offering a "50/50" split is never worth it as a business. If the customer is still pissed off when they leave because they had to pay 50%, then why bother spending 50% for them in the first place? If you are a customer, and you legitimately believe that you are not responsible, why would you settle for paying 50%? You are either in the right, or in the wrong, and if you are in the wrong, then you should pay 100% to have it repaired. By accepting a 50/50 split as a customer, you are essentially telling that dealership "Hi, I am a money grubber, I took a shot, and it worked."

Why are clutches covered by Subaru and tires are not? A few reasons:

*A manufacturer may "choose" to have a clutch produced by someone else, if they feel that it is more cost effective, but a manufacturer cannot choose to make their own tires.

*AFAIK, only the clutch disc is made by exeedy, the rest by Subaru.

*Their are no federal regulations that regulate clutch discs, there are a **** ton for tires. Because of regulations placed on tires, it is legal to hold a tire manufacture accountable for the tire directly. But since no legislation exists for clutch discs, a manufacturer cannot pass the responsibility onto the clutch manufacturer.

Tires are a bad example, because for the most part they are the only thing that comes from the factory that the manufacturer is not responsible for in any way. But just because Kenwood makes headunits for Subaru, does not mean that Subaru makes you call Kenwood if yours breaks (but Kenwood is the one that has to pay for the repair)

But since we are not talking about a factory installed windshield, all of the above is irrelevant. Someone else installed it, and the warranty terms were set forth at the time of installation, and just because she didn't ask, or wasn't told, doesn't mean that it is anyone else's fault but hers.


Mike

+1 and on the second post which I also forgot about as well.

Tires are a bad example, because for the most part they are the only thing that comes from the factory that the manufacturer is not responsible for in any way. But just because Kenwood makes headunits for Subaru, does not mean that Subaru makes you call Kenwood if yours breaks (but Kenwood is the one that has to pay for the repair)

This is true for Subaru, but not all manufacturers...(about the radios). Some manufacturers do require you contact the manufacturer of the radio

...
Ask yourself this. You own a business, would you fork over $350-500 of your own money to pay for a repair that was never done by you, when the customer rarely ever comes to your establishment for your business, knowing you will never see them again unless it is for something free?
If the repair was (a) done in my business's name, and (b) the repair was botched resulting in failure well before its expected lifetime, both of which seem to be the case here, I'd split the cost with the customer (depending on time since repair and how long the repair should normally last). Of course, I'd be looking to my glass sub to make me at least partially whole. If I'm sending a lot of business his way, he shouldn't have a problem with that.

... In your case to be fair, are you willing to pay for repairs or replace something for every single person that is in that scenario for free that walks in? I am willing you look at it on a case by case basis.:)
To me, the two key things to look at are: (a) how good a customer is he/she and (b) was the repair clearly defective (i.e. failed *well* before expected). If neither (a) nor (b), then probably not. If *either* (a) OR (b), then probably so, at least partially.

If the repair was (a) done in my business's name, and (b) the repair was botched resulting in failure well before its expected lifetime, both of which seem to be the case here, I'd split the cost with the customer (depending on time since repair and how long the repair should normally last). Of course, I'd be looking to my glass sub to make me at least partially whole. If I'm sending a lot of business his way, he shouldn't have a problem with that.


To me, the two key things to look at are: (a) how good a customer is he/she and (b) was the repair clearly defective (i.e. failed *well* before expected). If neither (a) nor (b), then probably not. If *either* (a) OR (b), then probably so, at least partially.

I have already agreed to disagree.

You would give away the farm because you are coming from a customers standpoint. I have a different approach as I am coming from a Service standpoint in regards to a business that makes money and weighing all avenues like customers loyalty, policy and procedure's.

Regardless of the outcome, we still have a well reputable Service Dept. I take care of my good service customers because I have earned their business. Those that never come in, most likely won't get taken care of, but it is a case by case basis. You have to remember, What good is taking care of out of warranty repairs for free to those that never spend money with you when you end up pissing off those that are regular customers that may need help or a break but can't help them because you have helped those that never come in. You have to know when and when not to take care of good customers and those that are not good customers.

... We do have a reputable company that we subcontract too (most often we just refer customers to them), and it is no different here. The contract is between the glass shop, and the customer..... the dealer has nothing to do with it.
If you just refer the customers, you're 100% right. If you subcontract the work (i.e. take the customer's money yourself), then you're the one responsible to the customer.

... Why does a company strive to make it's customers happy? So they come back and spend money THAT IS THE ONLY REASON.
Not exactly: you want both your customer *and other people your customer talks to* to come back and spend money at your business.
... So if a person has already proven themselves to not be a "loyal customer", then there is no reason for the dealership to spend money from their own pocket to retain them.
This can be penny-wise but pound-foolish. As long as your current interaction with the customer doesn't change their attitude & behavior regarding your firm, you're right. However, if by spending some money you can improve their (and their friends', colleagues', acquaintances') attitude toward you, or prevent it from getting worse, maybe that's worthwhile. Depends on the situation, likely cost, etc.
... So, with that in mind, why would the dealer offer to cover a repair, that they don't perform themselves, for a longer period of time than they would be obligated to, if they did it themselves?
Because if they didn't, people might start to think that maybe all repairs done/arranged by the dealer would fail much sooner than those done/arranged at other repair shops. (or at least that seems like a logical possibility to me...)

... Offering a "50/50" split is never worth it as a business.
And yet, the practice is widespread. Are so many so wrong?
... You are either in the right, or in the wrong, and if you are in the wrong, then you should pay 100% to have it repaired. By accepting a 50/50 split as a customer, you are essentially telling that dealership "Hi, I am a money grubber, I took a shot, and it worked."
You might want to look up the concept of "pro rata." ;) Responsibility and time in service are often not either 100% or 0%.

From what I understand the dealership would be the customer in this case as they paid for the repairs prior to the customer taking delivery of the vehicle.

That is correct Hondaslayer. We paid for all the parts and work. Customer brought the vehicle by the next day after she took delivery, dropped it off to her salesmen and he gave it to the glass shop where they did the work.

I think WR and I are thinking of this from the point of view of the woman as the customer, as she bought the car from the dealership. In any case, the horse we're beating is not only dead, but fossilized by now, so I'll sign off this thread. Thanks to bf, hs, and rg for insight into how things look from the dealership side of the counter! :banana:

The only time I have ever dealt with a dealership/manufacturer when I felt I was entitled to something was with my current WRX. With less than 2000 miles on the engine it developed a cylinder one and three misfire and I did rather demand they replace (rather than repair) the engine. I paid for a new car and I felt I was entitled to a new car.



And you did indeed get a new car. Did you purchase a new car that was 100% guaranteed to never develop a problem? Hmm, I don't know of any car with that kind of wording in the advertising. A car with 2000 miles on it is a used car. Luckily, it was still covered under the factory warranty. If you read your warranty agreement, the manufacturer will repair whatever goes wrong (within certain limitations, of course). You do not have the right to "demand" any kind of repair. If you could, why not just "demand" a new car?

actually....I was within my rights to demand a new car as I was over the VA lemon law period of 30 days in the shop AND three attempts to fix the same problem. But all I ever wanted from the start was my car running as it should! And the wonderful folks at Stohlman delivered that. I haven't had the problem happen since they replaced the engine.

actually....I was within my rights to demand a new car as I was over the VA lemon law period of 30 days in the shop AND three attempts to fix the same problem. But all I ever wanted from the start was my car running as it should! And the wonderful folks at Stohlman delivered that. I haven't had the problem happen since they replaced the engine.

+1
He is right.

If you just refer the customers, you're 100% right. If you subcontract the work (i.e. take the customer's money yourself), then you're the one responsible to the customer.

Maybe in construction, but not in this industry. It all comes down to what I type, and what you sign on the repair order when you pick up the vehicle.


Not exactly: you want both your customer *and other people your customer talks to* to come back and spend money at your business.

This can be penny-wise but pound-foolish. As long as your current interaction with the customer doesn't change their attitude & behavior regarding your firm, you're right. However, if by spending some money you can improve their (and their friends', colleagues', acquaintances') attitude toward you, or prevent it from getting worse, maybe that's worthwhile. Depends on the situation, likely cost, etc.

To a point, a dissatisfied customer can be an excellent opportunity to create a loyal customer. But when you do this day in and day out, you can almost tell in the first 10 seconds of your interaction if that is possible or not. You have to remember that in order to convert them, they had to have had a bad experience in the first place. Some people (many on this board) will NEVER frequent a dealership no matter how well they are treated. So when someone is an anti-dealer fan boy, why do them a favor? After all, more often than not on here, when a dealer does something nice for someone it is never viewed as "man that's a great dealership" it's viewed as "haha, I won".

So when you have identified a customer as being one of these types, why do anything more than what you are legally and ethically required to do?


Because if they didn't, people might start to think that maybe all repairs done/arranged by the dealer would fail much sooner than those done/arranged at other repair shops. (or at least that seems like a logical possibility to me...)

That is an irrational and illogical thought, and you know it. But proves my point that some people are incapable of rationally interaction with other humans. To actually believe what you just said, would put you in the category of "not worth our time or money"........... No amount of excellent customer service and/or money can fix crazy.

And yet, the practice is widespread. Are so many so wrong?

Yes, I believe that they are.


You might want to look up the concept of "pro rata." ;) Responsibility and time in service are often not either 100% or 0%.

Sure, when it comes to tires. But since there is no clear and defined life span of windshield adhesive, the concept can't apply in this case. I've seen windshields leak after hard collisions, even when the airbags do not deploy, should the dealership pay for that too.

Again, the fact of the matter is the vehicle is way out of any warranty what so ever. If your new Subaru windshield develops a water leak at 37k, it is not covered under warranty. Why should a dealership take on more responsibility than the manufacturer would?

You seem very confident in your knowledge of what other people are thinking. Since you're wrong at least about the irrationality of my comment and about the life span of windshield adhesive, you may wish to reconsider that (over?)confidence. ;)

OK, now I'm really done with this thread. :banana:

Maybe in construction, but not in this industry. It all comes down to what I type, and what you sign on the repair order when you pick up the vehicle?Not true, there are lots of things that you can type that would not hold up to even the most routine legal scrutiny.

You seem very confident in your knowledge of what other people are thinking. Since you're wrong at least about the irrationality of my comment and about the life span of windshield adhesive, you may wish to reconsider that (over?)confidence. ;)

OK, now I'm really done with this thread. :banana:

Hardly. My statements are made from experience, I do this for a living every day. Everyone for the most part falls into a certain personality type, and the faster you can identify what "type" they are, the smoother the interaction will be.

The "control" in the big experiment is "me", so as long as I am consistent on the initial interaction, it's not hard to figure out what kind of person they are from commonalities I've observed in similar situations (Yes, over the years I have pissed a lot of people off, it is only learned "the hard way"). It comes down to "Intuition", and it's really the only difference between a successful Service Advisor/Salesman/General Manager, and one who only lasts a few months. Hard work, and automotive knowledge has nothing to do with it, it helps, but if people don't like you as a person then it doesn't really matter how much you know, or how hard you work.

In all seriousness, there is a wonderful book that deals with "split second decisions", it's called "Blink", by Malcolm Gladwell. It's not a "self help" book, and it won't tell you the "how" of rapid cognition........it just confirms things that you already know, but didn't know why you knew them. ;-) <----- the premise of the book.


Mike

Not true, there are lots of things that you can type that would not hold up to even the most routine legal scrutiny.


Again, we come back to "Rational and reasonable"..........Jesus what is it with you guys. Of course if I write "Customer agrees to allow us to remove one finger for every day he is late in returning the loaner car..." it would not hold up.

However, a statement such as:
(Just an example, and only partially representative of the thread topic)

"Windshield replacement was performed as a one time only "good will" repair. Customer agrees to accept responsibility for the damage to the windshield, and acknowledges that it was not due to a manufacturers defect, or the negligence of XXXXX Subaru. Customer agrees to assume all responsibility for any future damage to the windshield, seal, and windshield trim, regardless of cause. Customer fully understands that there is no warranty expressed or implied in relation to this repair, and accepts the vehicle in "As is" condition. Customer absolves XXXXXX Subaru, Subaru of America, and XXXXXX Auto Glass, of any responsibility, financial or otherwise; should the windshield and/or any of it's associated parts fail at any time after delivery to the customer."

Please initial here to confirm that the above statement has been read and is understood______

Can, has, and will stand up in court, and is VERY common in the industry when performing good will repairs.


The whole situation comes down to communication, and understanding of previously agreed upon terms.


Mike

Again, we come back to "Rational and reasonable"..........Jesus what is it with you guys. Of course if I write "Customer agrees to allow us to remove one finger for every day he is late in returning the loaner car..." it would not hold up.We can only read what you are writing, and you never said "reasonable" you said "anything". Those are hugely different terms.

The whole situation comes down to communication

Yes, and yours apparently sucks.

On another note: if my dealer ever did any work, good will or not, and it didn't have warranty, I'd find another dealer.


This is thread is becoming a great example why the buying public often views dealerships as organizations who are devoted to interfering with your initial purchase, warranty work, and locating parts.

We can only read what you are writing, and you never said "reasonable" you said "anything". Those are hugely different terms.



Yes, and yours apparently sucks.

On another note: if my dealer ever did any work, good will or not, and it didn't have warranty, I'd find another dealer.


This is thread is becoming a great example why the buying public often views dealerships as organizations who are devoted to interfering with your initial purchase, warranty work, and locating parts.

Sorry for assuming you were rational. :rolleyes:

Interfering? How is anyone interfering with anything? People come to me for service, I don't run out and stand in front of their car in traffic. So dealerships just "get in your way"? Cool, I'll tell that to the next customer that walks through the door. I'll make sure to remind them that they can always fix it themselves and that we will just get in the way......that will go over reaaalll well. As far as warranty work goes, the denial of a specific repair is simply a measure of CYA for a dealer. If we perform a repair and Subaru later determines that it was abuse and not a defect, who do you think gets stuck with the bill?..... it should be you, but 99.999% of the time it's the dealer. When I tell someone "no", it's because I don't want the cost of the repair taken out of my paycheck after the fact should it go sour, not because I want them to pay for it. In that case, I don't care if you're upset. If you don't like what your dealer tells you, call Subaru.

So if you had a problem with your car, and your car was out of warranty, you would rather "cut off your nose to spite your face", than accept a free repair that has no warranty? Maybe your perspective is skewed as to what I am talking about, and when I would put a statement like that on a repair order. So I'll give you another example.

Let's say you bring your vehicle in for a timing belt replacement, and when we take the belt off we find all the idler pulleys and belt tensioner pulley have shot bearings. We tell you (and show you) that it WILL fail shortly if they are not replaced. You tell us not to replace them, and tell us to put the new belt on anyways. So, should we offer any warranty what so ever on the work performed, knowing that failure is imminent? Would any business in any industry offer a warranty on a similar situation?...........NO


If you can't understand where I'm coming from after this, then you simply have a problem with the concept of "personal responsibility"...........because nothing is EVER your fault now is it? ;)


Mike

Sorry for assuming you were rational. :rolleyes:Why should I think you're rational? I don't know you from a hole in the wall.

Interfering? How is anyone interfering with anything? People come to me for service, I don't run out and stand in front of their car in traffic. So dealerships just "get in your way"? Cool, I'll tell that to the next customer that walks through the door. I'll make sure to remind them that they can always fix it themselves and that we will just get in the way......that will go over reaaalll well.First, buying a car is much to complicated. You have a vehicle, I have a excellent credit, and it still takes two days of ****ing around with "well my manger..." bs. If I buy 30k worth of custom industrial equipment, I get much better service.

Second, My now local dealership charges 700 dollars for the 60k mile service on my 05 WRX. Plus a premium for the platinum plugs. I consider that a reaming for a glorified oilchange. So I did it myself

Third: Everything went great until I discovered that Subaru changed the location of fuel filter on the 05, but failed to update their docs properly. NAPA didn't have one for in the fuel tank location. I figure the dealer would have one, nope: "we never changes those, do the one under the hood". (PS, none under the ****ing hood!) Then it took them three orders, and two weeks to ****ing order the part, all the time telling me I was wrong. I finally canceled the order, and bought one online. I can accept that I failed to have the filter on hand, I can't accept that they never change the fuel filter contrary to SoA instructions. And that they failed to order it three times.

As far as warranty work goes, the denial of a specific repair is simply a measure of CYA for a dealer. If we perform a repair and Subaru later determines that it was abuse and not a defect, who do you think gets stuck with the bill?..... it should be you, but 99.999% of the time it's the dealer. When I tell someone "no", it's because I don't want the cost of the repair taken out of my paycheck after the fact should it go sour, not because I want them to pay for it. In that case, I don't care if you're upset. If you don't like what your dealer tells you, call Subaru.Let me put this to you clearly. I don't give a **** about your paycheck. I care about the warranty I paid for. If I have to call SoA to have my warranty enforced, you've lost a customer. Permanently.

So if you had a problem with your car, and your car was out of warranty, you would rather "cut off your nose to spite your face", than accept a free repair that has no warranty? Maybe your perspective is skewed as to what I am talking about, and when I would put a statement like that on a repair order. So I'll give you another example. No, I would take it, but I would find another dealer for my paying work. When I bring my work to a dealership, I expect to pay a premium, why? Because I except the work to be done at a better level than most shops, and I expect the customer service to be much better. If it's not, I can save my self the money and take it down the street. I expect my dealership to stand behind their work, and their subcontractors work. I don't care what you wrote on the contract, weaseling out of responsibility is just poor business practices.

If you can't understand where I'm coming from after this, then you simply have a problem with the concept of "personal responsibility"...........because nothing is EVER your fault now is it? ;)I can certainly appreciate that my problems can be created by my actions. I've broke stuff on my truck, and taken to the dealship with "please fix ASAP, call me with the bill" and happily paid. Why? Because I understand how a good business relationship should work.

I can see that you don't understand where I'm coming from, which puts you about average for my experince with dealerships.

My whole take on the situation is whether or not you are a "good" customer. If you repeatedly come back to the same dealer over and over again to have work performed, you get treated like royalty. Why are these "good" customers coming in so often? Oil changes? Ok so thats 3 times a year, and then once for the annual safety inspection. Assuming that you get 2-3 years out of a set of brakes, what else could they possibly be paying for? Now I'm talking about a brand new car. I can understand if someone is bringing their 10 year old car in several times a year to have things fixed, but why at that point, when the car is "nickel and dimeing" them, wouldn't you suggest maybe purchasing a new vehicle? Oh possibly because you'd be losing your commission? I know thats how service advisors make a decent living at their job. Long hours standing behind a desk, answering the phone all day, and selling replacement parts and services that aren't quite always needed. I'm not saying you're lying or being dishonest, but come on, would you really truly have the job performed if it were your vehicle? I'd gamble and bet on "no". I like MKTOPSIDE's example of showing the customer the worn pulleys, but how does the customer know that those pulleys are from their car? A dealership always has old worn out parts lying around everywhere, any day of the week. I wasn't shown my "worn" clutch when my car was in for the tranny repair. A clutch going bad in only 25,XXX miles is ridiculous. The service manager at the dealer I had the repair done at told me the clutch disk is only covered by the 12/12,000 warranty. Subaru doesn't have such a warranty as far as I know (and as per say the SOA rep I dealt with on the phone). He said it wasn't covered under the initial wear items warranty because it was worn evenly. So how exactly is it covered then at all? If I go out and smoke my clutch the first week I have the vehicle, I stand a better chance of having it covered? It certainly wouldn't be worn "evenly" then. I just don't understand how brake pads are covered, which should wear evenly, but a clutch disk isn't? It sounds like a whole lot of double talk if you ask me. Now I do give SOA some credit as they refunded the cost of the clutch replacement, minus the sales tax (which is still irrational in my thinking). But I shouldn't have to call the corporate office. The dealers should know and understand the warranties themselves, better than the customer, who probably only reads it when they have a problem with the car. Sorry for the rambling. I'm just getting a little P.O.ed at the brainwashing some of you service advisors must have gone through. And maybe since MKTOPSIDE is so in depth to understanding the human psyche, he should get a job teaching psychology at a university, or charging hundreds of dollars an hour to have people lie on his couch. There's one h*ll of a commission for ya.

My whole take on the situation is whether or not you are a "good" customer. If you repeatedly come back to the same dealer over and over again to have work performed, you get treated like royalty. Why are these "good" customers coming in so often? Oil changes? Ok so thats 3 times a year, and then once for the annual safety inspection. Assuming that you get 2-3 years out of a set of brakes, what else could they possibly be paying for?
You are correct. However, many also come in for the services too(15k,30k,etc). I have a few customers that have put 20k+ on their car in a year. I also have a lot of customers that religiously bring their car in for all the services as well.

Now I'm talking about a brand new car. I can understand if someone is bringing their 10 year old car in several times a year to have things fixed, but why at that point, when the car is "nickel and dimeing" them, wouldn't you suggest maybe purchasing a new vehicle? Oh possibly because you'd be losing your commission?You would be surprised at the amount of customers that prefer to keep their cars. I regularly see 150-250k Subaru's. When I get a few cars that have a big estimate and they have already invested a good amount into the car, I suggest they talk to a sales manager. However, I have seen some customer's continue to put money into a car that isn't worth it. Each customer is different and some choose to keep it for their own reasons. Some, I have referred elsewhere because they can get that for cheaper. Contrary to your belief some of us advisors are actually honest and decent people. Maybe I should nickel and dime your profession?

I don't lose my commission, because if he trades it in, the used car dept still has to fix it:D Customer gets a new car that comes back for more services. It is a win-win.

I know thats how service advisors make a decent living at their job. Long hours standing behind a desk, answering the phone all day, and selling replacement parts and services that aren't quite always needed. I'm not saying you're lying or being dishonest, but come on, would you really truly have the job performed if it were your vehicle?You really know huh?:lol: We don't make as much as you think, but we can make a decent living. Some weeks are good some are bad, but we all are not pulling in mad money. Have you ever been a service writer at a dealer or let alone a repair shop? If you have never done my job, then I suggest you do not tell us advisor's how our job is. I am willing to say you made more money this week than I did.;)

I'd gamble and bet on "no".I have every service done on my Legacy, Cobra and Z/28 at the miles it is supposed to have it at. I do my own work on my Cobra and Camaro being it is out of warranty and both are modded. That reminds me, it is time to replace my plugs and fuel filter on the Cobra again.The Legacy my techs do the work here.

I like MKTOPSIDE's example of showing the customer the worn pulleys, but how does the customer know that those pulleys are from their car?I would venture to say that if they are still on the car, it is theirs:rolleyes::lol:

A dealership always has old worn out parts lying around everywhere, any day of the week. I wasn't shown my "worn" clutch when my car was in for the tranny repair.Maybe because they are like us..the trash gets taken out daily. We throw our parts away if the customer does not want them back.

A clutch going bad in only 25,XXX miles is ridiculous.So is tearing one up at 6500 miles and lying about how it happened.

The service manager at the dealer I had the repair done at told me the clutch disk is only covered by the 12/12,000 warranty. Subaru doesn't have such a warranty as far as I know (and as per say the SOA rep I dealt with on the phone). He said it wasn't covered under the initial wear items warranty because it was worn evenly. So how exactly is it covered then at all? If I go out and smoke my clutch the first week I have the vehicle, I stand a better chance of having it covered? It certainly wouldn't be worn "evenly" then. I just don't understand how brake pads are covered, which should wear evenly, but a clutch disk isn't? It sounds like a whole lot of double talk if you ask me. Now I do give SOA some credit as they refunded the cost of the clutch replacement, minus the sales tax (which is still irrational in my thinking). But I shouldn't have to call the corporate office.The dealers should know and understand the warranties themselves, better than the customer, who probably only reads it when they have a problem with the car. Sorry for the rambling. I'm just getting a little P.O.ed at the brainwashing some of you service advisors must have gone through.I thought we hashed this out when that occured? I remember telling you that dealer was wrong because the clutch is covered under the 3/36k in the wear item warranty. Again, you got bent over by a service advisor that did not know his job. Plain and simple. That doesn't mean all of us are that way.

You seem to have a lot of anger and are sending it our way assuming alot of things. Maybe a lack of a way in handling it? I don't know. I love how I am brainwashed:rolleyes:, but then again I have been told that before when I was in the Marines so I am getting used to it.:p

And maybe since MKTOPSIDE is so in depth to understanding the human psyche, he should get a job teaching psychology at a university, or charging hundreds of dollars an hour to have people lie on his couch. There's one h*ll of a commission for ya.So should you as you know a lot about us:p

I think I have posted enough in this thread and have said my peace.:)

So you are a "bad" customer at the Ford and Chevy dealer? I hope one day you get penalized by one of them, as so many of us have been penalized for doing the work/service ourselves and being labeled "a bad customer".
I've stated before the only other poor experience I've had with a dealer is Toyota. I guess I'm just not use to being treated like my money isn't green enough, or my time isn't worthwhile. I have a 99 Integra. I only visit the dealer if I happen to need parts. But I still get treated like royalty when I pull onto the lot, just taking a look around at the new cars, and when ordering my parts (which by the way only take 2 days to get if they aren't in stock, no matter what day of the week you order them.) Same goes for Honda. I NEVER have service done at the dealer. I buy parts, do the repairs myself, but am still treated with respect and dignity when I walk in. I'm not cast aside for someone who spends possibly every last cent they have to fix their car (which usually doesn't happen with Hondas). And I'm sure my profession has nickel and dimed you. It's what the huge mindless corporation I work for does best, unfortunately.

So you are a "bad" customer at the Ford and Chevy dealer? I hope one day you get penalized by one of them, as so many of us have been penalized for doing the work/service ourselves and being labeled "a bad customer".
I've stated before the only other poor experience I've had with a dealer is Toyota. I guess I'm just not use to being treated like my money isn't green enough, or my time isn't worthwhile. I have a 99 Integra. I only visit the dealer if I happen to need parts. But I still get treated like royalty when I pull onto the lot, just taking a look around at the new cars, and when ordering my parts (which by the way only take 2 days to get if they aren't in stock, no matter what day of the week you order them.) Same goes for Honda. I NEVER have service done at the dealer. I buy parts, do the repairs myself, but am still treated with respect and dignity when I walk in. I'm not cast aside for someone who spends possibly every last cent they have to fix their car (which usually doesn't happen with Hondas). And I'm sure my profession has nickel and dimed you. It's what the huge mindless corporation I work for does best, unfortunately.

First of all, there is a difference, your vehicle is WAY out of warranty, and like stated above, both the Cobra and Z28 are too. BUT, you are both considered 'good' customers because you buy the parts from the dealer. They know you when you come in, and treat you like 'royalty' because they know you spend money there, even though it is not in service.

My whole point of starting this this thread was to try to clear up alot of the misconceptions people have about dealers, service advisors and techs, but it looks like that probably won't happen because opinions will never change.

Oh, and I too and tired of being stereo-typed into being a money-grubbing-sell-parts-you-don't-need-don't-know-what-you-are-talking-about service advisor. People that think that really need to go visit some of these 'discount chain' stores and see what someone like that is really like.

First of all, there is a difference, your vehicle is WAY out of warranty, and like stated above, both the Cobra and Z28 are too. BUT, you are both considered 'good' customers because you buy the parts from the dealer. They know you when you come in, and treat you like 'royalty' because they know you spend money there, even though it is not in service.

My whole point of starting this this thread was to try to clear up alot of the misconceptions people have about dealers, service advisors and techs, but it looks like that probably won't happen because opinions will never change.

Oh, and I too and tired of being stereo-typed into being a money-grubbing-sell-parts-you-don't-need-don't-know-what-you-are-talking-about service advisor. People that think that really need to go visit some of these 'discount chain' stores and see what someone like that is really like.

This thread really has proven your point though.....


In other news, I saw Leroy today, he has nothing but good things to say about you Kelly :D


-Ben

I have nothing against any service advisor, or any person for that matter, untill they do me wrong. I have been tossed aside, had my orders lost and screwed up, waited weeks for my parts, and treated like overall **** by my local dealership. If I go to the dealership where I bought my car, the service is amazing (though its over an hour away). I get the parts I order prompty and get great service. So it all depends on whos working there I guess. Plus, I'm only 19, so I think that may play into it as well.

Oh, and I too and tired of being stereo-typed into being a money-grubbing-sell-parts-you-don't-need-don't-know-what-you-are-talking-about service advisor. People that think that really need to go visit some of these 'discount chain' stores and see what someone like that is really like.

The Meineke guys in Bordentown are the first place I go for all my cars.

Your smack talk about them is FAIL.

Oh and they don't charge enough money to pay for a secretary at the desk who does not know how to wrench. But every dealer I've been to charges enough money to pay a secretary. I'm sorry, "service advisor." That tells me something. They are too expensive for me. :lol:

Oh, and I too and tired of being stereo-typed into being a money-grubbing-sell-parts-you-don't-need-don't-know-what-you-are-talking-about service advisorLook around at your peers, not just in your dealership, and tell me that you don't see lots that exact behaviour. It only takes a small amount for the consumer to become skeptical, and a cynic. You can't blame us given the experiences we've all had.

Look around at your peers, not just in your dealership, and tell me that you don't see lots that exact behaviour. It only takes a small amount for the consumer to become skeptical, and a cynic. You can't blame us given the experiences we've all had.

And have you? Or is this another case of "I heard"

And have you? Or is this another case of "I heard"I've already posted my most recent issues in this thread.

I've already posted my most recent issues in this thread.

Really now? I read all of your posts and did not see a single post where you had a problem with a service advisor (which is what is being discussed)


Why should I think you're rational? I don't know you from a hole in the wall.

First, buying a car is much to complicated. You have a vehicle, I have a excellent credit, and it still takes two days of ****ing around with "well my manger..." bs. If I buy 30k worth of custom industrial equipment, I get much better service.

Second, My now local dealership charges 700 dollars for the 60k mile service on my 05 WRX. Plus a premium for the platinum plugs. I consider that a reaming for a glorified oilchange. So I did it myself

Third: Everything went great until I discovered that Subaru changed the location of fuel filter on the 05, but failed to update their docs properly. NAPA didn't have one for in the fuel tank location. I figure the dealer would have one, nope: "we never changes those, do the one under the hood". (PS, none under the ****ing hood!) Then it took them three orders, and two weeks to ****ing order the part, all the time telling me I was wrong. I finally canceled the order, and bought one online. I can accept that I failed to have the filter on hand, I can't accept that they never change the fuel filter contrary to SoA instructions. And that they failed to order it three times.

Let me put this to you clearly. I don't give a **** about your paycheck. I care about the warranty I paid for. If I have to call SoA to have my warranty enforced, you've lost a customer. Permanently.

No, I would take it, but I would find another dealer for my paying work. When I bring my work to a dealership, I expect to pay a premium, why? Because I except the work to be done at a better level than most shops, and I expect the customer service to be much better. If it's not, I can save my self the money and take it down the street. I expect my dealership to stand behind their work, and their subcontractors work. I don't care what you wrote on the contract, weaseling out of responsibility is just poor business practices.

I can certainly appreciate that my problems can be created by my actions. I've broke stuff on my truck, and taken to the dealship with "please fix ASAP, call me with the bill" and happily paid. Why? Because I understand how a good business relationship should work.

I can see that you don't understand where I'm coming from, which puts you about average for my experince with dealerships.


All I see there is bitching about the price of a "glorified oil change" (coolant flush, brake flush, spark plugs etc, yeah, glorified oil change)

Bitching about negotiating the price of a car (it is a negotiation, there's going to be give and take)

The closest gripe I can see is where the parts dept (and what does that have to do with a service advisor again?) did not order a filter for you, which begs the question, did you pre-pay it? Special order parts typically need to be pre-paid or they do not get ordered.

All I see there is bitching about the price of a "glorified oil change" (coolant flush, brake flush, spark plugs etc, yeah, glorified oil change)700 bucks, and they wouldn't have even changed the fuel filter, because they never do. That was the single most complicated part. The whole thing, minus the brake fluid change, took me 4 hours, and I don't have the experince, tools, and I had to pull the rear seat.

And the "don't replace the filter comment was directly from the service adviser. You don't think this is a problem? It's listed right in the manual, and the service instructions that I found on the internet.

Bitching about negotiating the price of a car (it is a negotiation, there's going to be give and take)It's about the whole experince, and I'm certainly not alone. From the going back and forth about the cost of car 20 times, to saying no to 60 "adders" after explicitly stating what I want, then signing 18 docs that say you turned down undercoating, etc. I knew what I wanted, I bought what I wanted, and the dealer does all they can to get me to buy something else.

The closest gripe I can see is where the parts dept (and what does that have to do with a service advisor again?) did not order a filter for you, which begs the question, did you pre-pay it? Special order parts typically need to be pre-paid or they do not get ordered.No, I did not prepay. they stated they would order it multiple times on the phone. They never asked for upfront cash.

am I to understand, from your response, that my experince is "nothing to gripe about"? I find that highly insulting.


And don't think that I can't critise my own peers, I look in my field, and I'm depressed about the image and customer service my "compatriots" are known for. But instead of telling our customers to "suck it up", we've emphasized our customer communication, responsiveness, and dedication to quality products. Thanks to that, we have some very loyal repeat customers.

Look around at your peers, not just in your dealership, and tell me that you don't see lots that exact behaviour. It only takes a small amount for the consumer to become skeptical, and a cynic. You can't blame us given the experiences we've all had

Behavior like that is not tolerated at my dealership, either in service, sales, parts, finance, etc.....you would be immediately fired. Search "Mastro Subaru" and see what you find. I understand that some dealerships allow this to go on, but you can't put the majority of us in the bunch with the minority.

And the "don't replace the filter comment was directly from the service adviser. You don't think this is a problem? It's listed right in the manual, and the service instructions that I found on the internet.

If you do have an 05 and the filter is in the tank, it is a non-maintenance filter and only gets replaced if the fuel pump is replaced seeing it comes with the pump. Looks like they were trying to save you money

I used to rail against the pricey major services at my dealership, but finally I realized that it's not like we're forcing this down the customer's throat. If they don't want all of the additives and fuel injector services and all that jazz they can opt out of it and just pay us for an oil change, tire rotation, coolant flush, and transmission fluid change. No big deal.

Behavior like that is not tolerated at my dealership, either in service, sales, parts, finance, etc.....you would be immediately fired. Search "Mastro Subaru" and see what you find. I understand that some dealerships allow this to go on, but you can't put the majority of us in the bunch with the minority.Untill I get to know you, I have to suspect that you are like the minority, lest I get ****ed. I had a good relationship with my previous dealership, and the one before that. This dealership sucks, and the Subaru dealership in my hometown was moved from a good dealer to ****ty dealer.

If you do have an 05 and the filter is in the tank, it is a non-maintenance filter and only gets replaced if the fuel pump is replaced seeing it comes with the pump. Looks like they were trying to save you moneySo the maintenance schedule in my manual is incorrect then? Either way, once I had the damned thing out, I wasn't going to put back an old filter. So I tried to buy a new filter. Multiple times.

Well, I've been reading this thread with interest, amusement and a bit of shock at the bitterness. Wow -- for an industry of folks that don't care about the customer, are 'money grubbing' you know what's, how the heck do you explain the dedication of folks like RexyGirl, Hondaslayer, and a host of other's that spend time on an enthusiast website - when they are on their own time, sharing info, giving advise, 'giving an insider's perspective', usually to people that are not even anywhere near their dealerships? It can't affect their bottom line or help increase their earnings - -- - - -. So, tell me you money grubbing Service Advisors -- how are you increasing your income on this forum? There has to be something profitable in it for you!! I mean, you wouldn't be doing it because you are good people that actually give a dam* about your line of work!!! So, what's in it for you?? (seriously - thanks for sharing the article Rexy and for the great info. exchange Honda, et al)

I'm in with my dealer. I have purchased 2 new cars there in 18 months. I brought my legacy gt in with the clutch toasted. There were small other problems too, abd I asked about the clutch and the cost. They said it would be a regional call. And that the guy would be in 2 weeks. So 4 days later they call and say soa has agreed to do it as a one time deal free of charge. My car had a 3" turbo back and cobb tuner on it. So they noted it and covered it. But the service, sales and parts ppl and I are on first name basis. I do have my cars serviced there. I also do all my warranty work there. So while they didn't have to. They did take care of me. After the clutch was removed they said the rep would have denyed it. So I lucked out.

But at first I felt they owed me something. But now I see how it all works.

There are alot of misconceptions at the dealership level as to what is covered and what is not. I know that Subaru has made changes to warranties over the years, I.E., wear items used to be one year warranty only. But after a certain year (2002?) wear items became 3 year warranty items. So sometimes dealers dont educate themselves (or SOA doesnt educate them), and they provide misinformation.

At the same time, very few consumers truly understand what warranty is and how it works and when it doesnt cover repairs. There are so many consumers that view warranty as something that is more like an insurance policy and that they are entitled to it when they really arent. Its just pure ignorance and failure to hold oneself accountable for the repairs that are their own responsibility.

Thats my $0.02. And no, I do not work for any dealership, SOA, or even in the auto industry.

Why should I think you're rational? I don't know you from a hole in the wall.


So you assume everyone you meet and talk to is irrational? "Superiority complex" have we?


First, buying a car is much to complicated. You have a vehicle, I have a excellent credit, and it still takes two days of ****ing around with "well my manger..." bs. If I buy 30k worth of custom industrial equipment, I get much better service.

Then come in with a cashiers check and see how long it takes. Your inability to effectively and expeditiously negotiate should not, and cannot be the fault of every car dealership in America.


Second, My now local dealership charges 700 dollars for the 60k mile service on my 05 WRX. Plus a premium for the platinum plugs. I consider that a reaming for a glorified oilchange. So I did it myself

:rolleyes:

Are you serious? I mean, for real....

What any mechanic charges is never based on "how long will this take the customer" because most customers don't work on their own cars. Do an experiment, get a list of everything that your dealer does on a 60k (if you can't, I will be happy to e-mail it to you). Then take that list, and call around and get itemized quotes from corporate chains like Jiffy Lube, Merchants, Pep boys, etc, as to what they would charge for the same exact thing. Don't cheat and omit what you think is not needed. I know the results, I do it once a month to make sure we are competitive.... In fact, most times we are close to 30% cheaper (and yes we charge $700 for a 60k)


Third: Everything went great until I discovered that Subaru changed the location of fuel filter on the 05, but failed to update their docs properly. NAPA didn't have one for in the fuel tank location. I figure the dealer would have one, nope: "we never changes those, do the one under the hood". (PS, none under the ****ing hood!) Then it took them three orders, and two weeks to ****ing order the part, all the time telling me I was wrong. I finally canceled the order, and bought one online. I can accept that I failed to have the filter on hand, I can't accept that they never change the fuel filter contrary to SoA instructions. And that they failed to order it three times.

Already explained..... you're wrong.


Let me put this to you clearly. I don't give a **** about your paycheck. I care about the warranty I paid for. If I have to call SoA to have my warranty enforced, you've lost a customer. Permanently.

It doesn't really matter if you care or if you don't. If I am involved, it is a factor to me. Since it is a very real concern for me, I will do things "by the book" to cover my ass, because if it gets kicked back I pay for it. If that means losing a customer, so be it

Hey, call SOA all you want, in fact, it would make things easier. SOA can give me an "auth#", which means I will get paid. If you expect a service provider IN ANY PROFESSION to put their livelihood on the line for you, then you are really asking too much. Just put all of your "dealership/service advisor" hate aside for a moment and think of the base logic of the situation. We all go to work to make money, customers pay us money. If a customer takes money away, then why go to work? It has nothing to do with being "money grubbing", (with all your ideology aside) it has to do with compensation for my time.


No, I would take it, but I would find another dealer for my paying work.

So again, how are we wrong? This takes us back to the original topic of discussion of this thread. If you are going to take it else where anyways, why help you out in the first place?


When I bring my work to a dealership, I expect to pay a premium, why? Because I except the work to be done at a better level than most shops, and I expect the customer service to be much better.

I can argue this point till the end of time, and trust me I can argue longer and better about this topic than probably anything else. You might be able to prove that oil changes, and "standard" repairs are slightly cheaper, but when you get into complicated issues and real problems..... dealership is cheaper every time. But, here is just one thing that pretty much trumps all else:

Does Midas have service loaners?


If it's not, I can save my self the money and take it down the street. I expect my dealership to stand behind their work, and their subcontractors work. I don't care what you wrote on the contract, weaseling out of responsibility is just poor business practices.

If that is true, then what would you call "weaseling out of a contract"?
Think about your answer carefully....... because you may have just lost at the internetz :lol:


I can certainly appreciate that my problems can be created by my actions. I've broke stuff on my truck, and taken to the dealship with "please fix ASAP, call me with the bill" and happily paid. Why? Because I understand how a good business relationship should work.

I can see that you don't understand where I'm coming from, which puts you about average for my experince with dealerships.

No, I see where you are coming from. You have an "entitlement complex", with communistic undertones. You believe that "If someone else can pay for it, they should, AT ALL COSTS."...... or you will throw a temper tantrum :diaf:


Mike

My whole take on the situation is whether or not you are a "good" customer. If you repeatedly come back to the same dealer over and over again to have work performed, you get treated like royalty. Why are these "good" customers coming in so often? Oil changes? Ok so thats 3 times a year, and then once for the annual safety inspection. Assuming that you get 2-3 years out of a set of brakes, what else could they possibly be paying for? Now I'm talking about a brand new car. I can understand if someone is bringing their 10 year old car in several times a year to have things fixed, but why at that point, when the car is "nickel and dimeing" them, wouldn't you suggest maybe purchasing a new vehicle? Oh possibly because you'd be losing your commission? I know thats how service advisors make a decent living at their job. Long hours standing behind a desk, answering the phone all day, and selling replacement parts and services that aren't quite always needed. I'm not saying you're lying or being dishonest, but come on, would you really truly have the job performed if it were your vehicle? I'd gamble and bet on "no". I like MKTOPSIDE's example of showing the customer the worn pulleys, but how does the customer know that those pulleys are from their car? A dealership always has old worn out parts lying around everywhere, any day of the week. I wasn't shown my "worn" clutch when my car was in for the tranny repair. A clutch going bad in only 25,XXX miles is ridiculous. The service manager at the dealer I had the repair done at told me the clutch disk is only covered by the 12/12,000 warranty. Subaru doesn't have such a warranty as far as I know (and as per say the SOA rep I dealt with on the phone). He said it wasn't covered under the initial wear items warranty because it was worn evenly. So how exactly is it covered then at all? If I go out and smoke my clutch the first week I have the vehicle, I stand a better chance of having it covered? It certainly wouldn't be worn "evenly" then. I just don't understand how brake pads are covered, which should wear evenly, but a clutch disk isn't? It sounds like a whole lot of double talk if you ask me. Now I do give SOA some credit as they refunded the cost of the clutch replacement, minus the sales tax (which is still irrational in my thinking). But I shouldn't have to call the corporate office. The dealers should know and understand the warranties themselves, better than the customer, who probably only reads it when they have a problem with the car. Sorry for the rambling. I'm just getting a little P.O.ed at the brainwashing some of you service advisors must have gone through. And maybe since MKTOPSIDE is so in depth to understanding the human psyche, he should get a job teaching psychology at a university, or charging hundreds of dollars an hour to have people lie on his couch. There's one h*ll of a commission for ya.

First off, before I start I feel the need to bring this to your attention:
par·a·graph /ˈpærəˌgræf, -ˌgrɑf/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[par-uh-graf, -grahf] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a distinct portion of written or printed matter dealing with a particular idea, usually beginning with an indentation on a new line.
2. a paragraph mark.
3. a note, item, or brief article, as in a newspaper.
–verb (used with object)
4. to divide into paragraphs.
5. to write or publish paragraphs about, as in a newspaper.
6. to express in a paragraph.
[Origin: 1515–25; earlier paragraphe < Gk paragraph marked passage; see para-1, graph] "


I like MKTOPSIDE's example of showing the customer the worn pulleys, but how does the customer know that those pulleys are from their car? A dealership always has old worn out parts lying around everywhere, any day of the week.


At some point and time, you have to give up the adolescent and paranoid mindset of "everyone is out to get me". "Could" they be someone elses parts.....sure, or they could be yours. Take a look around and take the big picture into account, why would I put my job one the line, and expose myself to the legal ramifications of showing you someone else parts, if I got caught? That's a lot of liability for a $600 repair.

If your logic holds true, how do you know I am doing anything to your vehicle at all? You might as well assume that I am stealing your credit card number when I ring you up. And that we are only asking for your address so that we can come burglarize your house. What I'm trying to say, is if you are going to be a paranoid individual, then you might as well jump in with both feet and be suspect of everything.......at least you would prove interesting to deal with if that were the case.

I'm just getting a little P.O.ed at the brainwashing some of you service advisors must have gone through.

::::Sigh:::: More paranoia...... It's not a global automotive conspiracy, and if you sat in the chair all day, your perspective would be different. Until then, may I suggest a

http://www.cynical-c.com/archives/bloggraphics/kutcherside.jpg

To protect you from the "waves".

And maybe since MKTOPSIDE is so in depth to understanding the human psyche, he should get a job teaching psychology at a university, or charging hundreds of dollars an hour to have people lie on his couch. There's one h*ll of a commission for ya

It's all about being able to identify "patterns" in peoples behavior.....nothing more. But thank you for the vote of confidence in my abilities ;)

Mike

At the same time, very few consumers truly understand what warranty is and how it works and when it doesnt cover repairs. There are so many consumers that view warranty as something that is more like an insurance policy and that they are entitled to it when they really arent. Its just pure ignorance and failure to hold oneself accountable for the repairs that are their own responsibility.



You hit the nail on the head with that one. :)

[/thread]

So you assume everyone you meet and talk to is irrational? "Superiority complex" have we? I don't have a superiority complex, that seems to be your department. I have a cynical outlook on life, and to date it's served me very well. I don't "trust" business and people I don't know, and that though is already being reinforced by this thread. Then come in with a cashiers check and see how long it takes. Your inability to effectively and expeditiously negotiate should not, and cannot be the fault of every car dealership in America. I got the price I wanted, it just took to damned long to get there. I didn't need the cashiers check, because I qualified for SoA's low interest plan. Or are you suggesting I pay more in the long run, to deal with dealers less?What any mechanic charges is never based on "how long will this take the customer" because most customers don't work on their own cars. Do an experiment, get a list of everything that your dealer does on a 60k (if you can't, I will be happy to e-mail it to you). Then take that list, and call around and get itemized quotes from corporate chains like Jiffy Lube, Merchants, Pep boys, etc, as to what they would charge for the same exact thing. Don't cheat and omit what you think is not needed. I know the results, I do it once a month to make sure we are competitive.... In fact, most times we are close to 30% cheaper (and yes we charge $700 for a 60k)I have the itemized list, it's in the car manual, and I did look around, it would have been cheaper. But I did it myself for the experince. I certainly didn't include extra services, such as fuel system cleaning.Already explained..... you're wrong.No, not explained, and I'm certainly not wrong. It's stated, quite clearly, in my owners manual and my.subaru.com to change the fuel filter. So either my dealership is wrong, or SoA is wrong. Either way, they kept insisting their was one under the hood.

And it still doesn't cover the fact they failed to order it for 2 ****ing weeks, and lied to me about it. Are you going to continue to ignore that fact?
It doesn't really matter if you care or if you don't. If I am involved, it is a factor to me. Since it is a very real concern for me, I will do things "by the book" to cover my ass, because if it gets kicked back I pay for it. If that means losing a customer, so be it.

Hey, call SOA all you want, in fact, it would make things easier. SOA can give me an "auth#", which means I will get paid. If you expect a service provider IN ANY PROFESSION to put their livelihood on the line for you, then you are really asking too much. Just put all of your "dealership/service advisor" hate aside for a moment and think of the base logic of the situation. We all go to work to make money, customers pay us money. If a customer takes money away, then why go to work? It has nothing to do with being "money grubbing", (with all your ideology aside) it has to do with compensation for my time.Clearly we have a difference of expectations. I expect professional, responsive work. You expect to CYA. I have no problem compensating people for their time; I have problems with ****ty attitudes, incompetence, and arrogance. If providing warranty work is putting your income at jeopardy, it sounds like your business arrangements need to be reviewed.

I don't have a hate for service advisor's, or dealerships. I have had a very good relationship with some dealerships, the Chevy dealership is in my college town was great, as the previously mentioned subaru dealerships. I trust them and they give me value for the work. So again, how are we wrong? This takes us back to the original topic of discussion of this thread. If you are going to take it else where anyways, why help you out in the first place?I'm not talking about the start of this thread, I'm talking about your comment that you can and will remove any and all implied warranty on a service contract. That's not what I consider "standing behind your work", even if it was a good will item.
I can argue this point till the end of time, and trust me I can argue longer and better about this topic than probably anything else. You might be able to prove that oil changes, and "standard" repairs are slightly cheaper, but when you get into complicated issues and real problems..... dealership is cheaper every time. But, here is just one thing that pretty much trumps all else:

Does Midas have service loaners? If you are using Midas as your metric, you're off.



If that is true, then what would you call "weaseling out of a contract"?
Think about your answer carefully....... because you may have just lost at the internetz :lol:



No, I see where you are coming from. You have an "entitlement complex", with communistic undertones. You believe that "If someone else can pay for it, they should, AT ALL COSTS."...... or you will throw a temper tantrum :diaf:


MikeAre you seriously this ****ing ignorant? "lost at the internetz", "entitlement complex", "throw a temper tantrum"? It's not entitlement for me to expect professional service, competent work, responsiveness, and a warranty when I'm paying for it. I've never, ever, insulted or yelled at a service adviser, receptionist, or parts clerk, even when my car had been sitting for two weeks because of someones utter incompetence. I'm just going to take my business elsewhere in the future. And considering the state of the economy and where many auto manufactures are going, I would think this behaviour would concern people.

And we get to the part where I explain why I didn't assume you were a rational person: "communistic undertones"? You're ****ing loopy. I pay for the service, there is nothing communistic about it.

RexyGirl has been the only one in this thread, that has attempted to address my issues in any way shape or form. She even understand that other dealerships do employee people that exhibit the characteristics I'm complaining about. Everyone else thinks telling me I'm wrong, will gloss over the fact that the dealer ship ****ed up multiple times.

I certainly know who I would use for service in the future, given the choice.

If you go in expecting poor service, you're going to get poor service.

The advisors on here just don't get it. Us non-advisors have all been burnt at a dealership before, by shaddy advisors, *****ty salesmen, and a tech doing a half @ssed job. So it will take an exceptional service experience, from an exceptional advisor (which I'm sure you all are) to change our opinion of how the dealer system is suppose to work. I unfortunately have yet to experience the positive visit to a Subaru dealer. I've only been to two, and there are two more within reasonable driving distance, so hopefully one of them will end up working out. (should I insert a new paragraph here MKTOPSIDE?) I'm glad you advisors take your jobs and work seriously. Your customers, and the Subaru enthusiasts that are able to visit your dealerships are truly lucky.

Oh, we get what you are trying to say, but you also have to look at it from our perspective.

Day in and day out, we see people walk thru our door expecting us to basically hand over repairs with a smile because of something stupid that a customer did/n't do and expect to walk out without paying a dime. People have learned to believe that a dealership only exists to repair vehicles under the manufacturers warranty. Forget that they are there to make money too.

People don't understand that you get what you pay for. At a dealership you are paying for the certified tech, that has the knowledge to work on your specific vehicle, the advisor that knows about your vehicle and it's history, and the references available to the technicians from the factory, the people that built the car. At an independent, you are getting someone usually right out of school, or someone that has been working in a jiffy lube place for a while, that has no real knowledge of specific vehicles, and only has basic knowledge of how a car works. They normally get their 'references' from word of mouth or from what Joe at XXX shop's cousin told him happened on a car similar to this one that was about 3 years older. They are salemen, to a degree, because they are there to sell you work on your vehicle, often work you don't need. A dealership, or at least a good one, will recommend what is needed on your vehicle, show you why it is needed and tell you how soon it needs to be done and the consequences if it is not.

Perfect example: A customer came in today complaining of a vibration. Approx. 2 months ago, we advised the customer she needed a clutch after she complained that it was slipping. After giving her a quote, she decided it was too expensive and went elsewhere to save $100.00. Sounds great, at least that's what she thought. She took the vehicle to an independent repair shop that apparently had never replaced a clutch on a car like hers. (It wasn't a Subaru). Little did she know that the shop called us for information on how to do it, got the parts from us and marked them up higher than our estimate, and did a crappy job of repairing the clutch. Now, her vehicle sits in our shop, with a vibration, because the tech failed to properly install her axle and it almost fell out. She is now looking at a repair bill with us, over the $100.00 she thought she saved, to repair the mistakes of someone else. And to top it all off, she somehow thinks it's all our fault!!!

Every day we see what you people don't. We see where people try to save money by going to Joe Schmoe's shop only to be burned and return to us, or sometimes that shop actually brings the car to us because they don't know how to fix it. We have seen independent repair facilities overcharge customers for work using aftermarket parts and shady work ethics. Just yesterday we had a Baja come in with a noisy power steering pump, which supposedly happened after an independent shop just replaced his power steering belt a few hours earlier. We told him that the belt was still old, and didn't look like it had been replaced. I asked him if he had a copy of the receipt to make sure he was charged for the repair, which he told me was in his door pocket. I cried from laughing to see that he spent over $489.00 to have the belt replaced, (which wasn't done), the plugs and wires replaced, and oil change and a tire rotation. The reason I was laughing is because for $429.00 he could have had his 30,000 mile service done with us, with OEM parts, and had alot more done for his money. There was no air filter, fuel filter, brake flush, coolant flush, cabin air filter, transmission or differential service. And he went there because he though he was going to save money. He first went in for a basic oil change, which by the way, is more $$ than ours. Not only that, his battery had so much corrosion on it because it was leaking, the cables were damaged and the battery was about to fail . (We tested it for him, free of charge). The shop failed to tell him that and he was shocked when he saw it. And he thought he was saving money...again, he ended up in our shop.

I'm not saying there aren't competent independent shops out there, because there are, my husband works for one. But customers don't do their research and don't realize they get what they pay for. Saving that $50.00 on a repair might end up costing them $150.00 a few miles down the road. Does it always happen that way, no, but it happens ALOT more than people think or care to believe.

I understand that independent shops are out to make money too, but they usually do it at the expense of the customer. They could care less whether you come back. They get you in, get as much money as they can out of you (According to JD Powers, the average 'jiffy lube' oil change ends up costing a customer $79.00 with add ons the customer usually doesn't need) and then let you go out the door, possibly never to return. Have you ever listened to the fast talking at the end of the "99.00 brake special" commercials on the radio? "Extensive additional services are often recommended at at substantial additional cost" I kid you not, it says that....how do they know what you need from you driving down the road listening to the radio? Because they recommend it to everyone, all the time, whether you need it or not.

Like stated in the article, the original topic of this thread, dealerships are out to form a relationship with you. From the time you buy the car, to the time you trade it in, they want to take care of your vehicle. Is it going to cost you money sometimes? Of course, otherwise why open the dealership everyday? But, by performing a relationship with a customer, the customer becomes comfortable with the dealership, the dealership knows the vehicle and everyone is happy. Thats how you create good or exceptional customer service.

Exceptional service is something that should not only be expected, but earned. Unfortunately, in todays world, people think that companies 'owe' them because they bought their product, no matter what that product may be. If you come in to my shop, expecting me to hand you a new engine when you can't provide maintenance receipts, I will, literally, laugh in your face.

I never used to be like that. When I first started in this business, and I started at the bottom, filing RO's and then cashiering, I used to think that you had to do whatever it took to make the customer happy, and that the more you gave them for free, the happier they will be. I was wrong! Those customers ending up wanting more, costing me and the company more money, and they weren't any happier because their expectations just kept going higher. Now, I have learned to take each case and evaluate it. And you know what? I say no more often and don't kiss as much ass make more money!!! I have learned to weed out the 'bad apples' and take care of the customers that take care of us.

The main reason why I wrote this thread is because I wanted some of the people on here that think service advisors and dealerships have a 'script' that they go by are completely wrong. The article was written by someone outside a dealership (he actually owns an independent, I think) that knows how a business, of any kind, is supposed to work. He clarifies and backs up what some of the service advisors on here have been saying for a long time, only to be told we are idiots and SOA has us brainwashed.

Like I stated before, I know there are advisors out there that work in dealerships that can be real jerks, but if they keep up their way of thinking and work ethics, they will be out of a job, because dealerships are changing and most manufacturers will not tolerate people like them working for dealerships.

I don't have a superiority complex, that seems to be your department. I have a cynical outlook on life, and to date it's served me very well. I don't "trust" business and people I don't know, and that though is already being reinforced by this thread. I got the price I wanted, it just took to damned long to get there. I didn't need the cashiers check, because I qualified for SoA's low interest plan. Or are you suggesting I pay more in the long run, to deal with dealers less?I have the itemized list, it's in the car manual, and I did look around, it would have been cheaper. But I did it myself for the experince. I certainly didn't include extra services, such as fuel system cleaning.No, not explained, and I'm certainly not wrong. It's stated, quite clearly, in my owners manual and my.subaru.com to change the fuel filter. So either my dealership is wrong, or SoA is wrong. Either way, they kept insisting their was one under the hood.

And it still doesn't cover the fact they failed to order it for 2 ****ing weeks, and lied to me about it. Are you going to continue to ignore that fact?
Clearly we have a difference of expectations. I expect professional, responsive work. You expect to CYA. I have no problem compensating people for their time; I have problems with ****ty attitudes, incompetence, and arrogance. If providing warranty work is putting your income at jeopardy, it sounds like your business arrangements need to be reviewed.

I don't have a hate for service advisor's, or dealerships. I have had a very good relationship with some dealerships, the Chevy dealership is in my college town was great, as the previously mentioned subaru dealerships. I trust them and they give me value for the work. I'm not talking about the start of this thread, I'm talking about your comment that you can and will remove any and all implied warranty on a service contract. That's not what I consider "standing behind your work", even if it was a good will item.
If you are using Midas as your metric, you're off.



Are you seriously this ****ing ignorant? "lost at the internetz", "entitlement complex", "throw a temper tantrum"? It's not entitlement for me to expect professional service, competent work, responsiveness, and a warranty when I'm paying for it. I've never, ever, insulted or yelled at a service adviser, receptionist, or parts clerk, even when my car had been sitting for two weeks because of someones utter incompetence. I'm just going to take my business elsewhere in the future. And considering the state of the economy and where many auto manufactures are going, I would think this behaviour would concern people.

And we get to the part where I explain why I didn't assume you were a rational person: "communistic undertones"? You're ****ing loopy. I pay for the service, there is nothing communistic about it.

RexyGirl has been the only one in this thread, that has attempted to address my issues in any way shape or form. She even understand that other dealerships do employee people that exhibit the characteristics I'm complaining about. Everyone else thinks telling me I'm wrong, will gloss over the fact that the dealer ship ****ed up multiple times.

I certainly know who I would use for service in the future, given the choice.

Nope, you do have an entitlement complex. You can call me arrogant all you want, you can tell me that I have a ****ty attitude towards customers, you can hold me accountable for something that some dealership in your neck of the woods screwed up, but I have a WHOLE WALL full of awards and get a nice check every month for providing excellent service to my customers. The fact that they keep coming back, is enough to tell me that I'm doing something right. ****, search my name on this website, you'll see the same thing.

So when it comes down to it, you are simply out of your element, and your talking out of your ass.

Mike

The advisors on here just don't get it. Us non-advisors have all been burnt at a dealership before, by shaddy advisors, *****ty salesmen, and a tech doing a half @ssed job. So it will take an exceptional service experience, from an exceptional advisor (which I'm sure you all are) to change our opinion of how the dealer system is suppose to work. I unfortunately have yet to experience the positive visit to a Subaru dealer. I've only been to two, and there are two more within reasonable driving distance, so hopefully one of them will end up working out. (should I insert a new paragraph here MKTOPSIDE?) I'm glad you advisors take your jobs and work seriously. Your customers, and the Subaru enthusiasts that are able to visit your dealerships are truly lucky.


:rolleyes:

It would be a step in the right direction. However, your last post was close to unreadable due to it's size.

I'm sorry that you have had bad experiences in the past due to poor service. But that does not entitle you to special treatment from myself, or other advisors. I have accepted the fact that I am a polarizing individual, a lot of people love me, and quite a few hate me. But since I can't be everything to everbody, I just try to focus on the ones that appreciate the service I provide. And I'm certainly not going to change a thing to accommodate the ones with serious trust issues.

If you can't put the past in the past, and give someone else a try with an open mind, you will ALWAYS have a bad experience.

Mike

I certainly didn't include extra services, such as fuel system cleaning.

Again, you are comparing "apples to oranges" when you omit things because "you don't feel they need it". When it comes down to it, are you as nothing more than a "hobbiest", qualified to make that decision? You are aware that SUBARU recommends it's induction service every 15,000 miles, aren't you? What would you base your decision to not perform that service on? Have you ever seen the copious amounts of carbon that build up in a Subaru engine. Is this something that I do on my car?...... HELL YES, and often!! Go buy a bottle of "seafoam" or "Berrymans CHEMTool" and run it slowly through a vacuum port at idle..... then do an oil change afterwards. The results speak for them selves.

The purpose of what I asked you to do was not to argue what you think the vehicle needs, it was to illustrate that you are not going to be saving any money on a 60k, by going to an aftermarket shop, if an identical service is performed.




And it still doesn't cover the fact they failed to order it for 2 ****ing weeks, and lied to me about it. Are you going to continue to ignore that fact?

Because it has nothing to do with me, and does not represent anything more than an isolate **** up by a parts dept that I have no relation to.


Clearly we have a difference of expectations. I expect professional, responsive work. You expect to CYA. I have no problem compensating people for their time; I have problems with ****ty attitudes, incompetence, and arrogance. If providing warranty work is putting your income at jeopardy, it sounds like your business arrangements need to be reviewed.


Every single industry out there, that provides warranty service on behalf of the manufacturer of a product, has to follow that manufacturers rules, or their income in put in jeopardy. They all have to cover their ass. You are angry, because your "entitlement complex" has lead you to believe that you have purchased an "insurance policy" against your own stupidity, and it bothers you that there are times where a dealership, and a manufacturer are legally and ethically within their right to tell you "NO!"


I don't have a hate for service advisor's, or dealerships. I have had a very good relationship with some dealerships.....

That's surprising!



I'm not talking about the start of this thread, I'm talking about your comment that you can and will remove any and all implied warranty on a service contract. That's not what I consider "standing behind your work", even if it was a good will item.


I never said that "I will" remove anything. I simply was trying to convey the fact that if a subcontractor performs work for us that we are not set up to perform, I will state clearly on the repair order the terms of the contractors warranty, and that all warranty claims are to be directed to them. The examples given were just that, examples of how something such statements are worded.



"lost at the internetz",

Sore loser.

I've never, ever, insulted or yelled at a service adviser, receptionist, or parts clerk, even when my car had been sitting for two weeks because of someones utter incompetence.

Nor would you have any right to. As you were the one to disable your car not them. You should have had the part in hand before starting the work.


I'm just going to take my business elsewhere in the future.

And that is your right as a consumer.


And considering the state of the economy and where many auto manufactures are going, I would think this behaviour would concern people.

Cars don't take into account the state of the economy when they break down. It effects us very little....... especially when the aftermarket IS NOT CHEAPER. Our business actually goes up a bit in bad times, as people are less likely to buy a new car when confronted with a large repair bill. When you car is broken, you have three choices, "fix it", "buy a new one", or "stop driving".


And we get to the part where I explain why I didn't assume you were a rational person: "communistic undertones"? You're ****ing loopy. I pay for the service, there is nothing communistic about it.

You don't pay for any service because you "Do it yourself for experience". I called you a communist because you expect to be "taken care of" when something breaks regardless of cause.

If you go in expecting poor service, you're going to get poor service.

TRUTH!

The customers who receive the best customer service are not just lucky. They are treated well because they are excellent customers. When you treat someone the way you want to be treated, and understand that there are things that are beyond their control, they tend to reciprocate.


Mike

...The benefit of a happy customer and how much they pay doesn't matter? I am sorry but it does matter how much a person spends at a service shop...

Sorry man, but a windshield leaking on a fairly new car, barring any external damage, is not really an acceptable install job.

This is what's wrong with modern business practices. In business, you can do a couple of things in this instance. You do well for customers and there's a decent chance that they come back to buy another car years down the road... I am in manufacting quality control and I deal A LOT with warranty claims, I know this from first hand experience. You piss them off and don't stand behind your work when it's a resonable request? You lost their potential future business and you loose business to anybody that they know, because people go to their friends and rant/complain about it for a few days straight.

There was a time when business was governed by the customer... It went like this: the seller would do their best to keep and gain customers not "we'll see how much the customer wants us to sell this to them in the future by seeing how much they work for it."

I worked for an appliance sales/service place once that had cusomters who had been going there for literally 40 and 50 years. Would they call in to spend money there every 2 months? No. But guess what? All of their friends, aquaintances, and kids, would call in for service too saying, "Hey, I'm looking to get my washer fixed and Bob Anyjoe said you guys would take of me." Word of mouth and happy customers make for very effective local advertisement.

You take care of any reasonable request out of a customer, or you likely loose the customer. If the average windshield lasts 20 years without leaking, then assuming it hasn't been damaged by a rock or something, you should probably help somebody out if their's goes in 4... If nothing else, just out of basic ethics. But these days mom and pop operations rarely exist anymore, and the folks who work for big faceless corps. could care less about your plight if it doesn't fall within the required numbers. It's really a shame that so few people understand this stuff anymore.

If the average windshield lasts 20 years without leaking, then assuming it hasn't been damaged by a rock or something, you should probably help somebody out if their's goes in 4... If nothing else, just out of basic ethics.

I can respect where you are coming from, and I won't go back and rehash the "value" of performing work on a car that you will probably never see again.

Speaking directly about your statement quoted above, it still leaves the door open to some questions. What is the statistical life of an automobile windshield and seal? Besides conjecture, can you find any information that can shed some light on that? And what is the expected life of a windshield (how long can you drive it every day before it is cracked from a rock)?

At some point after enough time has passed, you have to disregard the claim that something was installed incorrectly. All but the most egregious "incorrect installs" are actually VERY hard to "prove" on most parts of a vehicle, especially if it's been years since the repair was made. For all the OP knows, that may not be the same windshield that was installed by the dealership.

Where I am going with this, is where does a business draw the line? At what point do you think it is acceptable to absolve yourself of any responsibility for the failure of a component.

Let's say my dealership sold a used car that had two cracked tail lights when it was traded in. We replaced them with new tail lights to pass state inspection. Now, 4 years later they are filled with water, and the customer wants new ones. We didn't make the lights, we just installed them, and the Subaru parts warranty has long since expired. Could they have been installed wrong? who knows.... the customer says so. Do you think that we should replace the lights for any reason?

Where do you draw the line..?

I am more interested in finding out where everyone thinks that line should be, than arguing about it. I guess to help prove my entitlement complex theory.

"If you give a mouse a cookie.............."


Mike

Sorry man, but a windshield leaking on a fairly new car, barring any external damage, is not really an acceptable install job.

This is what's wrong with modern business practices. In business, you can do a couple of things in this instance. You do well for customers and there's a decent chance that they come back to buy another car years down the road... I am in manufacting quality control and I deal A LOT with warranty claims, I know this from first hand experience. You piss them off and don't stand behind your work when it's a resonable request? You lost their potential future business and you loose business to anybody that they know, because people go to their friends and rant/complain about it for a few days straight.

There was a time when business was governed by the customer... It went like this: the seller would do their best to keep and gain customers not "we'll see how much the customer wants us to sell this to them in the future by seeing how much they work for it."

I worked for an appliance sales/service place once that had cusomters who had been going there for literally 40 and 50 years. Would they call in to spend money there every 2 months? No. But guess what? All of their friends, aquaintances, and kids, would call in for service too saying, "Hey, I'm looking to get my washer fixed and Bob Anyjoe said you guys would take of me." Word of mouth and happy customers make for very effective local advertisement.

You take care of any reasonable request out of a customer, or you likely loose the customer. If the average windshield lasts 20 years without leaking, then assuming it hasn't been damaged by a rock or something, you should probably help somebody out if their's goes in 4... If nothing else, just out of basic ethics. But these days mom and pop operations rarely exist anymore, and the folks who work for big faceless corps. could care less about your plight if it doesn't fall within the required numbers. It's really a shame that so few people understand this stuff anymore.

The horse is dead and many of the other advisors have also spoken the same as what I have.

BTW, SOA also has taken the same stance and referred the customer to the glass shop that performed the repairs 4 years ago.

Nope, you do have an entitlement complex. You can call me arrogant all you want, you can tell me that I have a ****ty attitude towards customers, you can hold me accountable for something that some dealership in your neck of the woods screwed up, but I have a WHOLE WALL full of awards and get a nice check every month for providing excellent service to my customers. The fact that they keep coming back, is enough to tell me that I'm doing something right. ****, search my name on this website, you'll see the same thing.

So when it comes down to it, you are simply out of your element, and your talking out of your ass.

MikeHoly ****, you're just a complete ass about this whole thing. This all began because you posted some hyperbole about what you can do as the service advis0r, and I called you on it. You went to maximum butthurt, and haven't backed down.

Again, you are comparing "apples to oranges" when you omit things because "you don't feel they need it". When it comes down to it, are you as nothing more than a "hobbiest", qualified to make that decision? You are aware that SUBARU recommends it's induction service every 15,000 miles, aren't you? What would you base your decision to not perform that service on? Have you ever seen the copious amounts of carbon that build up in a Subaru engine. Is this something that I do on my car?...... HELL YES, and often!! Go buy a bottle of "seafoam" or "Berrymans CHEMTool" and run it slowly through a vacuum port at idle..... then do an oil change afterwards. The results speak for them selves.

The purpose of what I asked you to do was not to argue what you think the vehicle needs, it was to illustrate that you are not going to be saving any money on a 60k, by going to an aftermarket shop, if an identical service is performed.





Because it has nothing to do with me, and does not represent anything more than an isolate **** up by a parts dept that I have no relation to.



Every single industry out there, that provides warranty service on behalf of the manufacturer of a product, has to follow that manufacturers rules, or their income in put in jeopardy. They all have to cover their ass. You are angry, because your "entitlement complex" has lead you to believe that you have purchased an "insurance policy" against your own stupidity, and it bothers you that there are times where a dealership, and a manufacturer are legally and ethically within their right to tell you "NO!"



That's surprising!




I never said that "I will" remove anything. I simply was trying to convey the fact that if a subcontractor performs work for us that we are not set up to perform, I will state clearly on the repair order the terms of the contractors warranty, and that all warranty claims are to be directed to them. The examples given were just that, examples of how something such statements are worded.



Sore loser.



Nor would you have any right to. As you were the one to disable your car not them. You should have had the part in hand before starting the work.



And that is your right as a consumer.



Cars don't take into account the state of the economy when they break down. It effects us very little....... especially when the aftermarket IS NOT CHEAPER. Our business actually goes up a bit in bad times, as people are less likely to buy a new car when confronted with a large repair bill. When you car is broken, you have three choices, "fix it", "buy a new one", or "stop driving".



You don't pay for any service because you "Do it yourself for experience". I called you a communist because you expect to be "taken care of" when something breaks regardless of cause.You're ****ing nuts.

Nope, you do have an entitlement complex. You can call me arrogant all you want, you can tell me that I have a ****ty attitude towards customers, you can hold me accountable for something that some dealership in your neck of the woods screwed up, but I have a WHOLE WALL full of awards and get a nice check every month for providing excellent service to my customers. The fact that they keep coming back, is enough to tell me that I'm doing something right. ****, search my name on this website, you'll see the same thing.

So when it comes down to it, you are simply out of your element, and your talking out of your ass.

MikeHoly ****, you're just a complete ass about this whole thing. This all began because you posted some hyperbole about what you can do as the service advis0r, and I called you on it. You went to maximum butthurt, and haven't backed down.

Again, you are comparing "apples to oranges" when you omit things because "you don't feel they need it". When it comes down to it, are you as nothing more than a "hobbiest", qualified to make that decision? You are aware that SUBARU recommends it's induction service every 15,000 miles, aren't you? What would you base your decision to not perform that service on? Have you ever seen the copious amounts of carbon that build up in a Subaru engine. Is this something that I do on my car?...... HELL YES, and often!! Go buy a bottle of "seafoam" or "Berrymans CHEMTool" and run it slowly through a vacuum port at idle..... then do an oil change afterwards. The results speak for them selves.

The purpose of what I asked you to do was not to argue what you think the vehicle needs, it was to illustrate that you are not going to be saving any money on a 60k, by going to an aftermarket shop, if an identical service is performed.

MAINTENANCE DETAILS
Vehicle: 2005 IMPREZA WRX SEDAN
Interval: 60000miles / 60 month service

Action Description
Inspect Drive belt(s) [Except camshaft]
Inspect Camshaft drive belt
Replace Engine oil
Replace Engine oil filter
Perform Replace engine coolant and inspect cooling system, hoses and connections
Recommended Performance Replace fuel filter and inspect fuel system, hoses and connections
Replace Air cleaner element
Replace Spark plugs
Inspect Transmission/Differential (Front & Rear) lubricants (Gear oil)
Inspect Automatic transmission fluid
Replace Brake fluid
Inspect Disc brake pads and discs, front and rear axle boots and axle shaft joint portions
Inspect Brake linings and drums
Perform Inspect brake lines and check operation of parking and service brake system
Inspect Clutch operation
Inspect Steering and suspension
Recommended Inspection Front and rear wheel bearing lubricant
Perform Rotate and Inspect TiresThat's how I decided what to do with my car

Because it has nothing to do with me, and does not represent anything more than an isolate **** up by a parts dept that I have no relation to.You're the one that's arguing that I have an entitlement complex for expecting **** to be ordered when they say it is.
Every single industry out there, that provides warranty service on behalf of the manufacturer of a product, has to follow that manufacturers rules, or their income in put in jeopardy. They all have to cover their ass. You are angry, because your "entitlement complex" has lead you to believe that you have purchased an "insurance policy" against your own stupidity, and it bothers you that there are times where a dealership, and a manufacturer are legally and ethically within their right to tell you "NO!"You clearly don't understand what I'm saying. If I have a valid warranty claim, and I have to call SoA to get my warranty enforced, that's your fault. I've not once said that I expect the warranty to cover anything other than manufacturing defects, within the time or mileage alloted. You are are the one claiming differently.
That's surprising! Of course it is to you, you've already convinced yourself that I'm saying something different than what I've written.
I never said that "I will" remove anything. I simply was trying to convey the fact that if a subcontractor performs work for us that we are not set up to perform, I will state clearly on the repair order the terms of the contractors warranty, and that all warranty claims are to be directed to them. The examples given were just that, examples of how something such statements are worded.If I sub my work to a contractor, I deal with all the warranty issues myself. I expect the same for anyone else.
Sore loser.:rolleyes:
Nor would you have any right to. As you were the one to disable your car not them. You should have had the part in hand before starting the work.So it's my fault, they were incompetent? That's rich.
And that is your right as a consumer.You sure that's not communistic?
Cars don't take into account the state of the economy when they break down. It effects us very little....... especially when the aftermarket IS NOT CHEAPER. Our business actually goes up a bit in bad times, as people are less likely to buy a new car when confronted with a large repair bill. When you car is broken, you have three choices, "fix it", "buy a new one", or "stop driving".You're not the only choice.



You don't pay for any service because you "Do it yourself for experience". I called you a communist because you expect to be "taken care of" when something breaks regardless of cause.You're ****ing nuts. I never, ever, have said that I expect the problem to be taken care of regardless of the cause. Please, put that strawman away.

Holy ****, you're just a complete ass about this whole thing. This all began because you posted some hyperbole about what you can do as the service advis0r, and I called you on it. You went to maximum butthurt, and haven't backed down.

Are your feelings hurt? or have you reached the end of your rope and have resorted to name calling?



That's how I decided what to do with my car

Again, you are missing the point. You state that "repair shop X" is cheaper than the dealer for a 60k." Cheaper for what exactly? If you want to rail on the dealership for charging to much, then you have to compare exactly what they are charging for, to another shop regardless of weather you think it needs it or not. We are talking about "cost" not "need". It's a very simple concept.

I don't care what you service on your car, it's your car. I go home at 6pm and work stays at work. If you are stuck on the side of the road all night..... I won't care again until 7am. So, service what you want.... IT'S YOUR CAR (and your still learning anyways, right? ;) )



You're the one that's arguing that I have an entitlement complex for expecting **** to be ordered when they say it is.
You clearly don't understand what I'm saying. If I have a valid warranty claim, and I have to call SoA to get my warranty enforced, that's your fault.


I'll leave this one at this. By the time I tell you "This is not a defect in materials or workmanship"...... all the required phone calls have already been made, "I's" have been dotted "T's" have been crossed and SOA is well aware of the situation in it's entirety, and I am simply relaying their decision on the matter. If you can convince them to pay for it from their, awesome.



I've not once said that I expect the warranty to cover anything other than manufacturing defects, within the time or mileage alloted.

Yes, you claim that the windshield that "blackfang" was talking about should be replaced even though the warranty period had expired years ago.



You are are the one claiming differently.
Of course it is to you, you've already convinced yourself that I'm saying something different than what I've written.

:diaf:



If I sub my work to a contractor, I deal with all the warranty issues myself. I expect the same for anyone else.

So do you warranty things that went out over coverage years later?



So it's my fault, they were incompetent? That's rich.


Nope, it's your fault that your car was down.

"Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance......."

May be annoying to hear, but holds true for SOO many things. I bet you'll never intentionally disable your car again without the replacement part in hand.


You sure that's not communistic?


:rolleyes:


You're not the only choice.


Nope, I'm not. But then again, if you live in my area, you would never be a customer of mine in the first place now would you? Because you do things yourself and you just "know" that dealers are too expensive. I can pretty much guarantee that my core customer base will not go somewhere else. Why not? Because consistency is more important to consumers than price (and that assumes that my prices are through the roof, which they are not.)



You're ****ing nuts. I never, ever, have said that I expect the problem to be taken care of regardless of the cause. Please, put that strawman away.

So now "cause" matters? I thought that a dealership should just repair stuff to win over customers because that's what someone who cares about their customers would do......


Out......Of.......Your.......Element......

But it's ok, I look forward to hearing you cry some more.

Mike

LR, there's no use trying to argue with him. He "knows" what others are thinking, so relating evidence and others' experiences doesn't matter. It's all good though, as it helps us all decide which dealerships to patronize; I'd go to rg's and hs's (and jh's if he had one :banana: ).

LR, there's no use trying to argue with him. He "knows" what others are thinking, so relating evidence and others' experiences doesn't matter. It's all good though, as it helps us all decide which dealerships to patronize; I'd go to rg's and hs's (and jh's if he had one :banana: ).


It would be nice if that were a factor here, but apparently dealerships are "too expensive" and Midas is a viable alternative.

Wait, I'm sorry, I must have misunderstood, were you referring to which dealership LR will go to, only when the repair is going to be covered under warranty? After all, he made that VERY clear on the previous page. ;)


Mike

yeah SOA try anything to void your warranty!!!

MK, I wouldn't have thought that "us all" would be so hard for you to interpret. Perhaps it's those psychic powers messing things up... :D

yeah SOA try anything to void your warranty!!!

As has been covered many times before, short of Flood, Fire, or Totaled in an accident, no one can "Void" your warranty.

SOA most of the time will give the benefit of the doubt to the customer as to weather or not the problem was a defect or abuse. But sometimes the cause of the problem is so obviously abuse that you couldn't really expect any manufacturer to cover it. By and large they are pretty good, not many manufacturers warranty all wear items to 3/36k.

Mike

yeah SOA try anything to void your warranty!!!
Actually that is incorrect. They have covered plenty of things that shouldn't have been. In addition to that I have covered a lot of repairs where the other dealer in town tried to void because they are not mod friendly and felt every mod is an automatic reason to void a claim. I am different where if the mod doesn't cause the failure and we can't prove it did, then it's covered.

You would be surprised at what SOA will do for a customer. many here see just the bad and not the good.

MK, I wouldn't have thought that "us all" would be so hard for you to interpret. Perhaps it's those psychic powers messing things up... :D

Since this conversation has been primarily between LR and I, I wouldn't see why "us all" would even be a factor, unless "us all" has the same personality issues that LR has (which he admitted earlier that he a cynical person that assumes that everyone is incompetent until they prove to him that they are not). If that were the case, I would be happy if "us all" went somewhere else. Thankfully, it is not.

As "hondaslayer" inferred earlier, the "customer" sets the tone of the interaction. People who are polite, and treat others the way they want to be treated, draw out the best in service providers. People with personality problems, who create an adversarial relationship off the bat, draw out the worst. LR and I would most likely have a very "cold" and "to the point" interaction if he were to bring his vehicle to me...... where as you and I would probably get along great.

I am actually a nice guy, and have always had nothing but positive face to face interaction with other NASIOC members..... I always go out of my way to take care of people from the site, just let me know your from NASIOC and were good to go.

Mike

Since this conversation has been primarily between LR and I, I wouldn't see why "us all" would even be a factor, ...
Maybe because you quoted my post (that included the "us all" wording), rather than any of LR's? I think your "polarizer" must be turned on...

Maybe because you quoted my post (that included the "us all" wording), rather than any of LR's? I think your "polarizer" must be turned on...

I quoted your post because it was a snide comment directed at me. However, if you read the entire post it should be fairly easy to see that nowhere did I say anything that should scare anyone with a legitimate warranty or service issue away.

The only way I could see someone who would otherwise bring their vehicle to me, going somewhere else because of what I wrote; would be if they were trying to "pull one over" on SOA (or they are just hyper sensitive and I scare them :o ). But, I can think of only one person who posts (or used to post) on this site, who's repair was not covered by Subaru due to abuse.

YMMV

Mike

Are your feelings hurt? or have you reached the end of your rope and have resorted to name calling?You're the person that started out with the names, the :diaf:, and in general made this a personal attack, not me. Don't go crying because I'm treating you in like kind.
Again, you are missing the point. You state that "repair shop X" is cheaper than the dealer for a 60k." Cheaper for what exactly? If you want to rail on the dealership for charging to much, then you have to compare exactly what they are charging for, to another shop regardless of weather you think it needs it or not. We are talking about "cost" not "need". It's a very simple concept. I compared "apples to apples", and I've state exactly what whole time. I said "60k service", not "60k service plus a bunch of extras". Because you don't seem to understand what Subaru dictates in the manual, doesn't mean that I don't.
I don't care what you service on your car, it's your car. I go home at 6pm and work stays at work. If you are stuck on the side of the road all night..... I won't care again until 7am. So, service what you want.... IT'S YOUR CAR (and your still learning anyways, right? ;) )I go to places that do care about my car, and If I spend the time on the side of the road. I'll leave this one at this. By the time I tell you "This is not a defect in materials or workmanship"...... all the required phone calls have already been made, "I's" have been dotted "T's" have been crossed and SOA is well aware of the situation in it's entirety, and I am simply relaying their decision on the matter. If you can convince them to pay for it from their, awesome.So you're arguing a different statement than what I've made, yet another strawman.Yes, you claim that the windshield that "blackfang" was talking about should be replaced even though the warranty period had expired years ago.Quote me. Just try to show where I said that. :diaf::rolleyes:That maturity is showing againSo do you warranty things that went out over coverage years later?We warranty things that we sold, we don't pass that along to the customer. I've never claimed otherwise. Nope, it's your fault that your car was down.

"Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance......."

May be annoying to hear, but holds true for SOO many things. I bet you'll never intentionally disable your car again without the replacement part in hand.Is this really your business attitude? When someone else's poor planning brings them to my door, I take that as an opportunity to make a new repeat customer. Apparently you like to gloat.

And I've never claimed it was their fault I failed to have the part on hand. I hold them responsible for failing to do even the most rudimentary part of the job. A fact that you seem to be ignoring, much like the rest of your arguments.:rolleyes:You're the one that seems to have the poor understanding, I thought I would help you out.
Nope, I'm not. But then again, if you live in my area, you would never be a customer of mine in the first place now would you? Because you do things yourself and you just "know" that dealers are too expensive. I can pretty much guarantee that my core customer base will not go somewhere else. Why not? Because consistency is more important to consumers than price (and that assumes that my prices are through the roof, which they are not.) If I was in my previous town, I would have done the work through my dealership, as it would have been cheaper. That's why I went to them first, but I thought I would try if for that price. I would have certainly gone back for other work, until my last experince. Instead, I'll go to another dealership, or an independent.So now "cause" matters? I thought that a dealership should just repair stuff to win over customers because that's what someone who cares about their customers would do......I never claimed other wise.
Out......Of.......Your.......Element......Clearly not, as you've been wrong about the technical issues, and have shown that you are willing to ignore your customers.
But it's ok, I look forward to hearing you cry some more.And you complain about my comments and "name calling"?

You're the person that started out with the names, the :diaf:, and in general made this a personal attack, not me. Don't go crying because I'm treating you in like kind.

I have pretty thick skin, so it doesn't "really" bother me, but for arguments sake, I never called you an "ass" like you did.


I compared "apples to apples", and I've state exactly what whole time. I said "60k service", not "60k service plus a bunch of extras". Because you don't seem to understand what Subaru dictates in the manual, doesn't mean that I don't.


No, you are not comparing "apples to apples". If you say the dealership charges $700 for a 60k, and that includes a bunch of extras; that does not negate the fact that those "extras" are reflected in that $700 cost. Now if you could get a price quote from the dealer on ONLY the items you would like to have performed, and then compare that to the prices of another shop, that would be "apples to apples".




I go to places that do care about my car, and If I spend the time on the side of the road.

I care about my "customers", who take my advice, and trust us to keep their car running. Now if I recommend a bunch of work to someone and they decline it because they feel it is "not needed", and then they break down as a result of the work not being performed.......well, you made your bed, now you have to lie in it.



So you're arguing a different statement than what I've made, yet another strawman.Quote me. Just try to show where I said that.


"I expect my dealership to stand behind their work, and their subcontractors work. I don't care what you wrote on the contract, weaseling out of responsibility is just poor business practices."

So if the warranty period is stated on the repair order, and you sign the repair order, and the failure happens outside of the time period that was stated......... well, no sense in rehashing it, there's your quote.

:rolleyes:That maturity is showing again

:rolleyes:


We warranty things that we sold, we don't pass that along to the customer.


What do you sell, and how long do you warranty it/them for? I would have a hard time believing that you warranty your products forever. Some things do have a lifetime warranty, but there are still exceptions. Even "SnapOn tools" doesn't warranty all of their tools forever.

I've never claimed otherwise. Is this really your business attitude? When someone else's poor planning brings them to my door, I take that as an opportunity to make a new repeat customer. Apparently you like to gloat.

You are not one of my customers, nor have you ever brought your vehicle to me for service, nor am I speaking in the name of my company. What I say to you has no bearing on, nor does it reflect upon how I treat a paying customer. I guess you have a problem with people speaking honestly?


And I've never claimed it was their fault I failed to have the part on hand. I hold them responsible for failing to do even the most rudimentary part of the job. A fact that you seem to be ignoring, much like the rest of your arguments.You're the one that seems to have the poor understanding, I thought I would help you out.

No, I'm not ignoring it. Yes, it seems like they ****ed up. But, sometimes mistakes happen, and "sometimes" the customer plays a big part in those situations due to poor communication. I wasn't there, so I can't say what happened.

It's illogical to assume that every dealing with that particular parts dept would be as bad...... or else they wouldn't be in business. Are they still in business?

Is it fair to hold the actions of the parts dept against the entire dealership? My parts dept here ****s things up all the time, it's not my fault, and I have no recourse, and no control over it and I'm the one that has to make excuses for them and take care of a pissed off customer. So short of threatening to quite, or threats physical violence, their ain't a whole hell of a lot that I can do.

I would bet you $100 that if you had towed your car in to service, you would have had it back within a day.



If I was in my previous town, I would have done the work through my dealership, as it would have been cheaper.

WHOOAA WHOOA WHOA........ are you.....actually admitting..... that there is a dealership that is "cheaper" than an aftermarket shop......HOLE-E-****...

Now I'm gonna gloat. :D


Clearly not, as you've been wrong about the technical issues, and have shown that you are willing to ignore your customers.


Anytime you want to have a "Technical battle royal" just let me know, and while were at it, we can expand that topic to all vehicles not just Subarus. I'll put my money where my mouth is, here's a start:
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/3227/asecertik0.th.jpg (http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asecertik0.jpg)

You have a "perspective" on what kind of customer service you would like to receive. But other than that, your knowledge of how SOA, their dealerships, their warranties, and their vehicles, seems to be limited to what you read on here. Now that's not a bad thing, nor do I really hold it against you. I'm sure that you know far more about what you do than the customers that you sell to, and I'm sure that from time to time you have to deal with "that guy" who thinks they they know your job and your product better than you do.


I don't ignore my customers, but I won't bend over backwards for irrational and illogical people.


And you complain about my comments and "name calling"?

Yes, because I haven't called you any names.

You are WAYYY to sensitive.

I have pretty thick skin, so it doesn't "really" bother me, but for arguments sake, I never called you an "ass" like you did.You did tell me to "die in a fire" which is pretty ****ing offensive, if you ask me. No, you are not comparing "apples to apples". If you say the dealership charges $700 for a 60k, and that includes a bunch of extras; that does not negate the fact that those "extras" are reflected in that $700 cost. Now if you could get a price quote from the dealer on ONLY the items you would like to have performed, and then compare that to the prices of another shop, that would be "apples to apples".Read what I wrote. They quoted me 700 bucks for just the 60k service, no other extras. No fuel cleaner, no hand-job, nothing. it was 700 bucks for what I listed from the manual. Except for the fuel filter, of course. I care about my "customers", who take my advice, and trust us to keep their car running. Now if I recommend a bunch of work to someone and they decline it because they feel it is "not needed", and then they break down as a result of the work not being performed.......well, you made your bed, now you have to lie in it.I feel that I should be able to do the service, as recommended by Subaru of America, and be secure. So if the warranty period is stated on the repair order, and you sign the repair order, and the failure happens outside of the time period that was stated......... well, no sense in rehashing it, there's your quote.ing performed.......well, you made your bed, now you have to lie in it.Lets review your quote, shall we.
"Windshield replacement was performed as a one time only "good will" repair. Customer agrees to accept responsibility for the damage to the windshield, and acknowledges that it was not due to a manufacturers defect, or the negligence of XXXXX Subaru. Customer agrees to assume all responsibility for any future damage to the windshield, seal, and windshield trim, regardless of cause. Customer fully understands that there is no warranty expressed or implied in relation to this repair, and accepts the vehicle in "As is" condition. Customer absolves XXXXXX Subaru, Subaru of America, and XXXXXX Auto Glass, of any responsibility, financial or otherwise; should the windshield and/or any of it's associated parts fail at any time after delivery to the customer."

Please initial here to confirm that the above statement has been read and is understood______This, is what I am talking about. Any work, weather it is good will or not, should be covered by a warranty in my opinion. This is the weaseling I've been talking about. I never once said that any work should be covered for any reason, which is why you can't quote me saying that. :rolleyes:Hey, your actions, not mime. What do you sell, and how long do you warranty it/them for? I would have a hard time believing that you warranty your products forever. Some things do have a lifetime warranty, but there are still exceptions. Even "SnapOn tools" doesn't warranty all of their tools forever.I never claimed we did lifetime warranty. What we do is provide warranty coverage, through the terms of the contract, for every item or service we resell. Our customers would be seriously disapointed in us if we sell them a product, then refer them to the manufacturer for any warranty work. We deal with those issue, which is why we have a markup. If we do not want to deal with those issues, we refer them to the company, and let them make the purchase. You are not one of my customers, nor have you ever brought your vehicle to me for service, nor am I speaking in the name of my company. What I say to you has no bearing on, nor does it reflect upon how I treat a paying customer. I guess you have a problem with people speaking honestly?Honesty is acknowledging what I've been writing, not attempting to argue another factor. No, I'm not ignoring it. Yes, it seems like they ****ed up. But, sometimes mistakes happen, and "sometimes" the customer plays a big part in those situations due to poor communication. I wasn't there, so I can't say what happened.

It's illogical to assume that every dealing with that particular parts dept would be as bad...... or else they wouldn't be in business. Are they still in business?

Is it fair to hold the actions of the parts dept against the entire dealership? My parts dept here ****s things up all the time, it's not my fault, and I have no recourse, and no control over it and I'm the one that has to make excuses for them and take care of a pissed off customer. So short of threatening to quite, or threats physical violence, their ain't a whole hell of a lot that I can do.Yes, you are ignoring, and minimizing the impact of their performance. Even now you consider it "illogical". And I certainly believe that the performance of one part of the company reflects on the rest.
I would bet you $100 that if you had towed your car in to service, you would have had it back within a day. But I shouldn't have to, I should be able to order a part from them and have confidence that it will arrive. WHOOAA WHOOA WHOA........ are you.....actually admitting..... that there is a dealership that is "cheaper" than an aftermarket shop......HOLE-E-****...

Now I'm gonna gloat. :D If you would review what I've been saying since the beginning, you would realize I've been saying this all along. Reading, as they say, is fundamental.



Anytime you want to have a "Technical battle royal" just let me know, and while were at it, we can expand that topic to all vehicles not just Subarus. I'll put my money where my mouth is, here's a start:
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/3227/asecertik0.th.jpg (http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asecertik0.jpg)
I'm not here to have a battle royal, I'm here...hell I don't know why I'm here anymore. I would hope that you have a vastly superior technical knowledge of Subarus or other cars. I'm only repeating the information that I have.

You have a "perspective" on what kind of customer service you would like to receive. But other than that, your knowledge of how SOA, their dealerships, their warranties, and their vehicles, seems to be limited to what you read on here. Now that's not a bad thing, nor do I really hold it against you. I'm sure that you know far more about what you do than the customers that you sell to, and I'm sure that from time to time you have to deal with "that guy" who thinks they they know your job and your product better than you do.

I don't ignore my customers, but I won't bend over backwards for irrational and illogical people.Of course my knowledge is limited, but it is informed by experince as well. I know how good dealerships treat their customers, why would should I except anything less?
Yes, because I haven't called you any names.

You are WAYYY to sensitive.I'm not sensitive at all, you're the one making a big deal about names, and not realizing that your behaviour can be just as insulting.

You did tell me to "die in a fire" which is pretty ****ing offensive, if you ask me.

OHHHH ****...... :diaf: "Die In A Fire"....... Ooopps.... my bad. I for real, no bull****, thought that was some sort of extreme temper tantrum emoticon......... who makes an emoticon called "die in a fire". Sorry about that.




Read what I wrote. They quoted me 700 bucks for just the 60k service, no other extras. No fuel cleaner, no hand-job, nothing. it was 700 bucks for what I listed from the manual. Except for the fuel filter, of course.

Now that right there.......man..... If we could get some chick to do that all day #1: I would be RICH as ****, #2: chaffed as ****, #3: I guess I would officially be a pimp.

Ok, well $700 is a bit high for that without the extras. I will say though, when a customer starts itemizing a 60k service, there is a point that it becomes all "a la cart" and not a big package deal anymore.... then it can start getting expensive. But I have no problem if someone doesn't want any additives, it's just not going to be all that much cheaper.



I feel that I should be able to do the service, as recommended by Subaru of America, and be secure.

Yes, you should be. BUT, just because the book says to change something at 30k, doesn't mean that yours might need to be changed at 20k. Auto trans fluid is a good example.


Lets review your quote, shall we.
This, is what I am talking about. Any work, weather it is good will or not, should be covered by a warranty in my opinion. This is the weaseling I've been talking about. I never once said that any work should be covered for any reason, which is why you can't quote me saying that.

"Should be", but there are plenty of cases where it's not appropriate. SOA does it all the time when they do a "one time good will" replacement of a trans that was damaged by abuse. They basically say, "you know this was ALL your fault buddy, so this was your one chance". So again, I ask you Where do YOU think "the line" should be drawn, when it comes to a companies/manufacturers liability. If you think SOA's policy of not warrantying a good will trans replacement because the first one was abused is no ethical, how long do you think it should be warrantied for? It's not a loaded question.




Hey, your actions, not mime.

:rolleyes:



What we do is provide warranty coverage, through the terms of the contract,

This takes us back to what I said above. If a product has a 1 year warranty, and a customer brings one back 3 years later and expects it to be covered, do you feel obligated to do it?


Our customers would be seriously disapointed in us if we sell them a product, then refer them to the manufacturer for any warranty work. We deal with those issue, which is why we have a markup.

Why would they be upset (especially when told upfront "if this breaks you have to call the people that made it)? When your Xbox360 red rings, do you take it back to Best Buy? No, it goes to microsoft, and Best Buy most certainly charges a markup. Why make yourself an unnecessary middle man?



If we do not want to deal with those issues, we refer them to the company, and let them make the purchase.

What do you sell?



Honesty is acknowledging what I've been writing, not attempting to argue another factor.


Yes, you are ignoring, and minimizing the impact of their performance.
Even now you consider it "illogical". And I certainly believe that the performance of one part of the company reflects on the rest.

Then you'll always have bad experiences. I can liken your logic system to that which perpetuates racism, "I was robbed by a ***** man, so all ***** men are criminals". I do think it is illogical. Sure, one dept can ruin a relationship with a customer, but to say that an entire dealership is incompetent because the actions of one employee in one dept makes no sense. Is the company that you work for so small that the owner assures that no one ever ****s up? Have you ever had a coworker that was a retard, that just seemed to never get fired? It happens, it's life, but to judge a whole group by the actions of one or a few people.......


But I shouldn't have to, I should be able to order a part from them and have confidence that it will arrive.

How do you know that there wasn't a delay in shipping? How do you know it didn't have to come from japan? There are a lot more factors at play than just the guys behind the counter, and I bet that by the time you walked in the door, you had already taken your car apart. What would have happened if when you walked in to order the part they said "Sorry sir, national backorder 6 month wait"? Would you still have held it against them?

You have a case of "The shoulds".... "Should be this...", and "should be that...". What you have to remember about life, is it's not fair, and no one is going to look out for your own interests like you will, and there is almost NEVER a situation (regardless of how something "should be") that you couldn't have had the foresight prevent. "P,P,P..P,P,P,P"..... would have made your entire issue a moot point, and you probably still would have a good relationship with them.

You see, I have to deal with SOA's retardation on a daily basis. Their parts train screw ups, mis-labled boxes, damaged products...etc...etc...etc. And I'm the one that has to make up an excuse for someone half way across the world, so that I don't loose a customer. So you're talking to someone that knows all about failed expectations when ordering parts........but you know what? I'll never buy another type of car as long as I live. The "good", just overshadows the "bad" that much.




I'm not here to have a battle royal, I'm here...hell I don't know why I'm here anymore.

To argue with me during the slow hours of the day......;)


Of course my knowledge is limited, but it is informed by experince as well. I know how good dealerships treat their customers, why would should I except anything less?


Cause "you got hate in your heart", and you want to let it out.




I'm not sensitive at all, you're the one making a big deal about names, and not realizing that your behaviour can be just as insulting.

:diaf::diaf::diaf::diaf::...hahahaha j/k

... You are aware that SUBARU recommends it's induction service every 15,000 miles, aren't you? ....

Have I missed something? I don't recall this from the service manual.Had a '02 WRX now have a LGT.

Have I missed something? I don't recall this from the service manual.Had a '02 WRX now have a LGT.

Your vehicle has an external fuel filter in the engine bay, his does not....it's located in the fuel tank

Starting in 05, fuel filters are located in the tank.

:diaf::diaf::diaf::diaf::...hahahaha j/k

Can we just hug it out, or something? You're interfering with my workload! :mad:







;)

Have I missed something? I don't recall this from the service manual.Had a '02 WRX now have a LGT.

It's a relatively new thing. I would say within the past year.

Mike

Can we just hug it out, or something? You're interfering with my workload! :mad:







;)

Hummmm.......... :::goes to look for "mansechts" emoticon:::

;)

Mike

Speaking of warranty I think I have a problem here. My husband and I bought a Subaru Legacy in Dec 2007. Car is working great no problems. I don't work so I don't drive the car that often. I barely have 5000 miles since december. I have not driven the car in maybe 3 days or so until yesterday afternoon when I noticed the windshield was cracked in one line from the eged up until almost the middle of the windshield. When I parked the car last Thursday night there were no cracks on the windshield(car is always parked in the garage).

So I called my dealer today explained the situation and he basically told me that the warranty covers only if it is a stress crack. Nowhere on the windshield you can see a chip of any size so I know the car has not been hit by anything. To me this looks more like a stress crack from heat maybe(even though I really avoid parking the car in direct sunlight I don't have to.

The service department tells me to take a ball point pen and run it through the crack. If the pen stops where the crack is then it is not stress crack. To me this is bunch of you know what. If it is a stress crack it can happen anywhere.

Yesterday I did some research on the net(that's how I found this forum) and I came across few threads talking about cracked windshields(not due to debris hitting them) so I am wondering if this is a wide spread problem with Subarus and the manufacturer is trying to blame the owner for it.

Does anyone else have the same problem?

So I called my dealer today explained the situation and he basically told me that the warranty covers only if it is a stress crack. Nowhere on the windshield you can see a chip of any size so I know the car has not been hit by anything. To me this looks more like a stress crack from heat maybe(even though I really avoid parking the car in direct sunlight I don't have to.

The service department tells me to take a ball point pen and run it through the crack. If the pen stops where the crack is then it is not stress crack. To me this is bunch of you know what. If it is a stress crack it can happen anywhere.

Actually that is the proper procedure to determine a point of impact on glass. That is also how insurance companies and glass shops do it as well. You should bring the car in to them and have them look it over and ask them to see if their is a point of impact. If they can't find one, they should submit for approval from SOA.

Yesterday I did some research on the net(that's how I found this forum) and I came across few threads talking about cracked windshields(not due to debris hitting them) so I am wondering if this is a wide spread problem with Subarus and the manufacturer is trying to blame the owner for it.

Does anyone else have the same problem?

Yes it can happen as I have seen it, but if their is a Point of impact than that rules out the stress crack. I have seen both.

Speaking of warranty I think I have a problem here. My husband and I bought a Subaru Legacy in Dec 2007. Car is working great no problems. I don't work so I don't drive the car that often. I barely have 5000 miles since december. I have not driven the car in maybe 3 days or so until yesterday afternoon when I noticed the windshield was cracked in one line from the eged up until almost the middle of the windshield. When I parked the car last Thursday night there were no cracks on the windshield(car is always parked in the garage).

So I called my dealer today explained the situation and he basically told me that the warranty covers only if it is a stress crack. Nowhere on the windshield you can see a chip of any size so I know the car has not been hit by anything. To me this looks more like a stress crack from heat maybe(even though I really avoid parking the car in direct sunlight I don't have to.

The service department tells me to take a ball point pen and run it through the crack. If the pen stops where the crack is then it is not stress crack. To me this is bunch of you know what. If it is a stress crack it can happen anywhere.

Yesterday I did some research on the net(that's how I found this forum) and I came across few threads talking about cracked windshields(not due to debris hitting them) so I am wondering if this is a wide spread problem with Subarus and the manufacturer is trying to blame the owner for it.

Does anyone else have the same problem?

It only takes a small chip, sometimes the size of a pencil dot to start a crack. The crack might not happen right away, but can start from extreme temperatures or even going over a bump.

Contact your insurance company. You might not even have to pay a deductible to have it replaced, depending on your state and coverage and it might not count as a claim against your insurance.

Also, research on here about windshield cracks and you will find alot of information. Also, for a speedier response, post in the correct thread or start your own.

I can respect where you are coming from, and I won't go back and rehash the "value" of performing work on a car that you will probably never see again.

Speaking directly about your statement quoted above, it still leaves the door open to some questions. What is the statistical life of an automobile windshield and seal? Besides conjecture, can you find any information that can shed some light on that? And what is the expected life of a windshield (how long can you drive it every day before it is cracked from a rock)?

At some point after enough time has passed, you have to disregard the claim that something was installed incorrectly. All but the most egregious "incorrect installs" are actually VERY hard to "prove" on most parts of a vehicle, especially if it's been years since the repair was made. For all the OP knows, that may not be the same windshield that was installed by the dealership.

Where I am going with this, is where does a business draw the line? At what point do you think it is acceptable to absolve yourself of any responsibility for the failure of a component.

Let's say my dealership sold a used car that had two cracked tail lights when it was traded in. We replaced them with new tail lights to pass state inspection. Now, 4 years later they are filled with water, and the customer wants new ones. We didn't make the lights, we just installed them, and the Subaru parts warranty has long since expired. Could they have been installed wrong? who knows.... the customer says so. Do you think that we should replace the lights for any reason?

Where do you draw the line..?

I am more interested in finding out where everyone thinks that line should be, than arguing about it. I guess to help prove my entitlement complex theory.

"If you give a mouse a cookie.............."


Mike

Right, that's exactly the problem in warranty service, the line can be very blurred somtimes... And in general if a customer is polite and willing to meet halfway or be reasonable, things will turn out better for them than if they're being rude about. I'm a human being too and I've worked in service before, so I know how that is.

The reason I used the term "your should probably help" is because I wasn't there to judge and I don't the situation in its entirety. Maybe the customer really was rude and trying to hide something, in which case, blackfang was ok.

You sort of have to be the judge I guess. Sometimes fluke things happen outside of warranty, and you cut folks some slack. Sometimes they're complete asses about it or they're obviously hiding something, and then you can say "sorry, it's out of warranty, can't cover it."

You just have to remember that cutting somebody some slack even once can mean return business from them and new business from the people they talk too. I just think it's really sad that a lot of larger businesses these days treat the customer as if it's some sort of priviledge to have the opportunity to pay for their services.

The horse is dead and many of the other advisors have also spoken the same as what I have.

BTW, SOA also has taken the same stance and referred the customer to the glass shop that performed the repairs 4 years ago.

Hey, I'm not saying you were entirely wrong. I've just seen customers get kind of screwed on warranty issues before. Warranty periods are not always even completely reasonable. A 1 year warranty on windshield install is kind of shy of what I would expect because windshield install jobs tend a to last a really long time if done properly. My windshield was changed almost 2 years ago and there was no warranty on physical damage to the glass or seal, but a lifetime warranty on install workmanship (no clue how well they would honor it though). Hell we haven't had a really good rain storm in almost a year here, I might not even know if my windshield was leaking!

The reason I used the term "your should probably help" is because I wasn't there to judge and I don't the situation in its entirety. Maybe the customer really was rude and trying to hide something, in which case, blackfang was ok.


Hey, I'm not saying you were entirely wrong. I've just seen customers get kind of screwed on warranty issues before. Warranty periods are not always even completely reasonable. A 1 year warranty on windshield install is kind of shy of what I would expect because windshield install jobs tend a to last a really long time if done properly. My windshield was changed almost 2 years ago and there was no warranty on physical damage to the glass or seal, but a lifetime warranty on install workmanship (no clue how well they would honor it though). Hell we haven't had a really good rain storm in almost a year here, I might not even know if my windshield was leaking!

Yes but she demanded it was to be free for her period! When you rarely ever come in for service you are really not seen as a loyal customer(as it has been stated) and when you refuse any kind of help from the management meeting you somewhere in the middle or some type of offer to help and tell us you will not pay a penny, then of course you are told no. The dealership said no as did SOA.