While many of us here are fans of the 2008 STI and the improvements from the previous generation made to the ride, interior, and day-to-day livability, the new STI had some trouble backing up it's iconic pink badge at Virginia International Raceway.

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/features_classic_cars/the_lightning_lap_2008_feature/the_lightning_lap_2008/ll3_08_35/1657348-1-eng-US/ll3_08_35_gallery_image_large.jpg


The Lightning Lap, 2008 (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/features_classic_cars/the_lightning_lap_2008_feature+page-17.html)

What car—for the money—delivers the best combination of power, handling, and braking? That question is fundamental to the ongoing mission of this magazine and the core element of all our road tests. We should also point out that those traits are the key ingredients of a car’s fun-to-drive (FTD) quotient, something we value far more than cup holders and/or trunk volume.

But—and this is widely overlooked—the elements of FTD are also the key components of active safety, a vehicle’s ability to respond to and avoid an accident situation. The lane-change exercise, part of our comparison-test regimen, provides insight to this ability, but Lightning Lap delivers an indelible blueprint. Unless you’re a taxi driver in Baghdad, you might argue that no accident-avoidance situation goes on for three minutes, but of course our interest extends beyond dodging drivers whose text messaging overrides their attention to the road. We want to see how well a wide *variety of performance cars combine their various dynamic elements in absolute terms in a controlled environment.

The only real disappointment in this roundup, though, was the Subaru Impreza WRX STI. The new STI has a sophisticated all-wheel-drive system delivering lots of driver selectability, plus the 305-hp thrust of its turbocharged flat-four engine, which should add up to performance that’s at least on par with that of previous members of the STI series....

Click here to read the rest at CARandDRIVER.com
(http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/features_classic_cars/the_lightning_lap_2008_feature+page-17.html)

We are still having some server issues, here are the results and data from page 1: http://www.caranddriver.com/content/download/122224/1656509/version/1/file/The+Lightning+Lap%2C+2008+Results.pdf

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/features_classic_cars/the_lightning_lap_2008_feature/the_lightning_lap_2008/ll3_08_43/1657432-1-eng-US/ll3_08_43_gallery_image_large.jpg

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/features_classic_cars/the_lightning_lap_2008_feature/the_lightning_lap_2008/ll3_08_1/1656886-1-eng-US/ll3_08_1_gallery_image_large.jpg

impreza getting too big and wacky.

got excited, thinking this was about the 09.

who cares about the 08 anymore.

got excited, thinking this was about the 09.

who cares about the 08 anymore.


its the same car .. duh !

wat? we got car and driver here now?

wat? we got car and driver here now?
I know. We finally made it. :p

I was wondering if rigidity of the hatchback was going to hurt it at the track. It looks like it did, maybe Carlabs will come out with a massive X-Brace for the hatch to help it out. :). I am sure with a few modifications that the 08 STI will kick some real *** though.

08/09 STI's are total disappointment unless you wanted to buy fast corolla...

Holy crap! Car and Driver is posting on the board now?!?! God help us if Csaba Csere, John Phillips, or the rest of the bunch get bored and wander to the OT area!

On a serious note, I doubt anyone here is going to be surprised by the STi's somewhat mediocre showing; we all knew it was getting a little soft. Don't get me wrong- it's a fine car and I would love to replace my wagon with one, but it at least needs a firmer suspension before it becomes a world class performer.

Let's be realistic here folks- the '08 is potentially a better chassis that is being hampered by subaru's intentional detuning. Yes, I agree the steering is vague- that needs to be fixed, but the grip and performance of the car is completely obscured by the factory suspension bits. Subaru needs to bring over the Spec C now thay they've created this huge hole in their lineup so that they can win some "stock" comparos again.

Frank

Awesome, both Subaru of America and Car and Driver are on our forum now. :)

Car and Driver: I request a mini-ute comparison with the Toyota Rav4, '09 Forester XT Limited, Honda CRV, Hyundai Santa Fe, etc...

Im really shocked at the Cobalt SS's results. I didnt know they were nearly that fast

The Cobalt SS even beat the Evo

This test is just another one of many clearly showing how badly Subaru messed up the 08-09 STI.

Way too soft suspension leading to way too much body roll. Even my 05 STI has way too much body roll, but now in the 08-09 its much much worse.

Badly underpowered at just 305hp. Should be at the very least 350hp for the price they are asking. Seriously, if I can get a 300hp BMW 335 or 135 for the same price as a 300hp Subaru, something is way off.

No AYC. Thus understeer.

Slower steering ratio in America's STI than rest of world.

No twin scroll turbo in America's STI.

Ugly, cheap, crappy seats that ruin the interior of the car while the rest of the world gets beautiful and supportive Recaros. Recaros that not only are far more comfortable but make the interior look a lot better.

Way too heavy. The STI needs to drop at least another 100 pounds. Just give me 100 pounds less Subaru, you will be amazed what happens to those track times.

No DSG, but that's forgiveable as many people still want 6 speed manual.

And worst of all, WAY TOO EXPENSIVE. Like I said before, if G37's and 335's are the same price, with the same performance, something is seriously wrong. Who the hell would buy an STI over a 335 for the same price? The STI needs to be no more than 32,000. Anything more than that and it's no longer a good value. No one wants a 40,000 Subaru when you can get BMW's, Audi's, and Benz's at that price range!!

Hopefully comparos like this will give Subaru a kick in the pants to get the STI back to it's M3 beating glory days. Please Subaru, please get our beloved STI back to it's iconic heights, you are losing customers left and right. Oh, and fix those ugly ugly 90's style taillights! My God are those things ugly.

A front wheel drive Cobalt SS priced 10,000 less than an STI spanked it around a track! That is shocking, sad, and sickening. Subaru better have a monster in store for 2010 or the STI will die in America.

Holy Crap, we're up into th 190,xxx member numbers now.

The base STI is not a whole lot more than 32,000.. I paid 34k for mine. Price to value wise, it represents an incredible value. It is meant to be a rally car anyway, not a track car, although the track performance is EASILY FIXABLE without spending much coin.
Considering it's a much wider car, and bigger, it's 3373lbs is not exactly a huge increase over your 3263lbs on your 05, plus all the extras. Also, considering that it's the same weight w/ the BBS wheels as the BMW 1 Series, which is just slightly more expensive, additionally it is waaaaay lighter than the chunky R32 at 3547 lbs, or the Evo GSR at 3517!!!
And the chassis is stiffer than before, with less rear overhang on the 5 door. All of that means with a little suspension work you've still spent not a whole lot for an amazing rally or track car. Weekend warrior, and during the week you can still take your kids to school and they'll actually be comfortable in the backseat now.

This test is just another one of many clearly showing how badly Subaru messed up the 08-09 STI.

Way too soft suspension leading to way too much body roll. Even my 05 STI has way too much body roll, but now in the 08-09 its much much worse.

Badly underpowered at just 305hp. Should be at the very least 350hp for the price they are asking. Seriously, if I can get a 300hp BMW 335 or 135 for the same price as a 300hp Subaru, something is way off.

No AYC. Thus understeer.

Slower steering ratio in America's STI than rest of world.

No twin scroll turbo in America's STI.

Ugly, cheap, crappy seats that ruin the interior of the car while the rest of the world gets beautiful and supportive Recaros. Recaros that not only are far more comfortable but make the interior look a lot better.

Way too heavy. The STI needs to drop at least another 100 pounds. Just give me 100 pounds less Subaru, you will be amazed what happens to those track times.

No DSG, but that's forgiveable as many people still want 6 speed manual.

And worst of all, WAY TOO EXPENSIVE. Like I said before, if G37's and 335's are the same price, with the same performance, something is seriously wrong. Who the hell would buy an STI over a 335 for the same price? The STI needs to be no more than 32,000. Anything more than that and it's no longer a good value. No one wants a 40,000 Subaru when you can get BMW's, Audi's, and Benz's at that price range!!

Hopefully comparos like this will give Subaru a kick in the pants to get the STI back to it's M3 beating glory days. Please Subaru, please get our beloved STI back to it's iconic heights, you are losing customers left and right. Oh, and fix those ugly ugly 90's style taillights! My God are those things ugly.

A front wheel drive Cobalt SS priced 10,000 less than an STI spanked it around a track! That is shocking, sad, and sickening. Subaru better have a monster in store for 2010 or the STI will die in America.

Quoted for Truth, kids.

It may be crap to a lot of people who are going to use it for the track, but for me i love the change, its going to be a daily driver and cant wait to get it. I just love everything about it..I dont worrry about what magazines say, if i like it im going to get it.

While many of us here are fans of the 2008 STI and the improvements from the previous generation made to the ride, interior, and day-to-day livability, the new STI had some trouble backing up it's iconic pink badge at Virginia International Raceway.


:rolleyes:

That's ok....

Most people on the internets stopped taking C&D seriously after you ranked the M3 ahead of GT-R, on subjective grounds, that had nothing to do when comparing sports cars.

Nevermind, the fact the have been numerous comparos(from more reputable shows and magazines), on other race tracks where STI was nipping the heels of the EVO or beat it. Don't asked me what you guys did to make the STI finish 6s a drift of the EVO. I guess C&D must have brought back your special GT-R driver for the STI:lol:

Looks good.

Slower steering ratio in America's STI than rest of world.


Some truth, some exaggeration.

Iirc, the whole world gets the 15:1 rack, unless you get a spec C.

I'm pretty sure you can't get an equivalently equipped BMW for the same price as an STI. A 335xi, for example, is over 45k.

Frank

6 seconds slower than the Evo :(

At least the trap times and exit speeds were good?

It wouldn't surprise me if the 2009 wrx beat the current Sti. It did very well against the competition in the R&T comparo test, which included the Chevy.

The Sti needs a 20% proportional bump like the wrx just received. 365 hp is easily attainable and should be expected if the STi is going to top its competitors again.

Some truth, some exaggeration.

Iirc, the whole world gets the 15:1 rack, unless you get a spec C.

I'm pretty sure you can't get an equivalently equipped BMW for the same price as an STI. A 335xi, for example, is over 45k.

Frank

The whole world does NOT get the 15:1 rack. The "standard" STI in Japan has a 13:1 or 14:1 rack. I also think the European version is the quicker rack, not to mention the Europeans get those awesome special STI's like Japan.

Yes you can get BETTER equipped Mercedes, Audi's, BMW's, and Infiniti's for the price. I can get sporty german sedans with light years better interior and exterior, with same ballpark performance, for LESS. Look it up man.The STI is way too expensive for the sad performance it exhibits.

Just look at those terribly cheap, ugly seats in the STI(as opposed to the stunning Recaros the rest of the world gets).

The interior is clearly a big step down from the competition.

Even the Evo gets great seats for God's sake. Yes it has a cheap interior too and is overpriced but at least the Evo can throw it down on the track and kick some ass, unlike SOA's STI.

If Subaru of America wants to price the STI near 40 grand, it better be fast as all hell to compete with german engineering refinement and beauty. 95 percent of buyers would rather have the BMW, Audi, or Benz with vastly superior refinement and equal or slightly less performance for the same price!! I cannot say this enough, the new STI is way too expensive for the performance it offers.

It's embarrassing how bad the STI did on this comparo. The USDM car and it's price is just not worthy of the STI name. The car that is called WRX STI for near 40 grand should really be a 25 grand WRX when you consider its interior and performance numbers. What the STI should be(a massive performance bargain) does not exist anymore. Sad.

Subaru.....Please fix this car for 2010....Please fix this car for 2010.......Please fix this car for 2010........maybe if we all think it enough it will happen.

What setting(s) did you use for the DCCD and VDC systems? Im sure you used Sport#, but how about the rest?

Seriously....

C&D has had some major credibility issues over the last couple of years. Their opinions and peformance figures should be taken with a grain of salt.

You should view this as a piece of fictional advertisement. I hope NASIOC is getting paid by C&D.

:rolleyes:

That's ok....

Most people on the internets stopped taking C&D seriously after you ranked the M3 ahead of GT-R, on subjective grounds, that had nothing to do when comparing sports cars.

Nevermind, the fact the have been numerous comparos(from more reputable shows and magazines), on other race tracks where STI was nipping the heels of the EVO or beat it. Don't asked me what you guys did to make the STI finish 6s a drift of the EVO. I guess C&D must have brought back your special GT-R driver for the STI:lol:

well apparantly they drove it with the base wheels not the BBS, which do add a lot of unsprung weight.. the non-bbs wheels are rather heavy.

also, why do people keep saying it's a $40,000 Subaru. invoice is like 33.5k off the top of my head on the base one. yes if you LOAD IT UP WITH OPTIONS you can get STICKER to go to 40k but there aren't a whole lot of people paying $40,000 for these, most people are not getting the navi version, they are just getting either the base or the bbs package w/o nav.

well apparantly they drove it with the base wheels not the BBS, which do add a lot of unsprung weight.. the non-bbs wheels are rather heavy.


Also, it's the only magazine in the world that can consistently run a GT-R high 12s, in the quarter mile, without a reasonable explanation for the poor results.

Also, if my memory serves me correctly, they had a 4000 lb, live axel, Mustang Cobra lapping within a tenth or two of a 911 TT at VIR last year.

Must have brought out the "anit STIG" GT-R driver for that run as well:lol:

everything u guys are sayin is true. but oh man the cobalt has to be the big surprise

FYI guys, all the info saying that the 09 STI is the same car as the 08, is rumor. No one knows for sure yet. So stop trashing a car that the full story isnt even out yet.

Oh and BTW, the STI can be had for WAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY less than 40 grand.

You guys are leaving out the fact that you have to add a TWO THOUSAND dollar nav system to get to 40grand. A non BBS STI runs under 36 grand. Which is only about $1200 more than an 05 STI was.


But keep spewing loads and loads of crap without having done ANY research, or having ever sat in, let alone driven an 08 STI. Dont bother looking to see what they REALLY cost.

How do I know a bunch of you (not all, but most of the people in this thread) are bandwagon jumping idiots? Because you ACTUALLY BELIEVE C&D. Anyone with a brain has seen the pattern and has known for years that C&D uses test drivers with questionable (at best) driving skill.

Like their review of the 02 WRX that they could only manage a 15.4sec 1/4 mile run.
Meanwhile everyone else was knocking off 14.4-14.6s

But hey, dont bother ever DRIVING ONE for yourself, just swing from the nuts of a magazine. just like 3/4 of nasioc. Effing book mechanics and magazine racers.
Not a single one of that group has any idea what they are talking about. Go the hell back to the newbie forum and scream about BOVs making you run rich and CAIs making you run lean.

Oh and BTW, the STI can be had for WAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY less than 40 grand.

You guys are leaving out the fact that you have to add a TWO THOUSAND dollar nav system to get to 40grand. A non BBS STI runs under 36 grand. Which is only about $1200 more than an 05 STI was.


But keep spewing loads and loads of crap without having done ANY research, or having ever sat in, let alone driven an 08 STI. Dont bother looking to see what they REALLY cost.

How do I know a bunch of you (not all, but most of the people in this thread) are bandwagon jumping idiots? Because you ACTUALLY BELIEVE C&D. Anyone with a brain has seen the pattern and has known for years that C&D uses test drivers with questionable (at best) driving skill.

Like their review of the 02 WRX that they could only manage a 15.4sec 1/4 mile run.
Meanwhile everyone else was knocking off 14.4-14.6s

But hey, dont bother ever DRIVING ONE for yourself, just swing from the nuts of a magazine. just like 3/4 of nasioc. Effing book mechanics and magazine racers.
Not a single one of that group has any idea what they are talking about. Go the hell back to the newbie forum and scream about BOVs making you run rich and CAIs making you run lean.

Haahaha. I hope you are right man because the STI results are embarrassing.

You've got to agree with me on the seats thing though! :)

I think 36 grand is still too much to be honest. My 05 was 31,500 with BBS wheels and with the optional turbo guage. To me the 18" BBS wheels are the only way to go. The non BBS 17's are unacceptable and should not even be offered. Those wheels don't belong on an STI. So it is 36 grand at base config, complete with the worst stereo system in any car on the road regardless of price. To add a half decent sound system with NAV, its near 38 grand!

And for your info, I have sat in one, and driven one.

These numbers make it painfully clear that this "STI" is no longer the huge performance bargain it's predecessors once were. It's not the 30 grand car that's as fast or faster than 50-60 grand cars anymore, it's now the 40 grand car that is as slow or slower than 25 grand cars. That's basically what this test tells us.

I really hope you are right about these C&D results.

A quote from: "http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/features_classic_cars/the_lightning_lap_2008_feature+page-24.html"

[...]
The Rules

The Lightning Lap, 2008

The cars featured here are all unmodified production vehicles, but we did request models equipped with performance-enhancing options such as larger brakes, stiffer suspensions, and the best wheel-and-tire packages.
[...]

Clearly the STI was not rolling on the best wheels. But this does not really explain or excuse the less that stellar perfs of our beloved STI.
Personally, I still love the car. I've been hoping for a STI hatch or wagon in the US since 2004.

08/09 STI's are total disappointment unless you wanted to buy fast corolla...

I lol'd

\Let's be realistic here folks- the '08 is potentially a better chassis that is being hampered by subaru's intentional detuning. Yes, I agree the steering is vague- that needs to be fixed, but the grip and performance of the car is completely obscured by the factory suspension bits. Subaru needs to bring over the Spec C now thay they've created this huge hole in their lineup so that they can win some "stock" comparos again.

Frank

The base STI is not a whole lot more than 32,000.. I paid 34k for mine. Price to value wise, it represents an incredible value. It is meant to be a rally car anyway, not a track car, although the track performance is EASILY FIXABLE without spending much coin.
Considering it's a much wider car, and bigger, it's 3373lbs is not exactly a huge increase over your 3263lbs on your 05, plus all the extras. Also, considering that it's the same weight w/ the BBS wheels as the BMW 1 Series, which is just slightly more expensive, additionally it is waaaaay lighter than the chunky R32 at 3547 lbs, or the Evo GSR at 3517!!!
And the chassis is stiffer than before, with less rear overhang on the 5 door. All of that means with a little suspension work you've still spent not a whole lot for an amazing rally or track car. Weekend warrior, and during the week you can still take your kids to school and they'll actually be comfortable in the backseat now.

well apparantly they drove it with the base wheels not the BBS, which do add a lot of unsprung weight.. the non-bbs wheels are rather heavy.

also, why do people keep saying it's a $40,000 Subaru. invoice is like 33.5k off the top of my head on the base one. yes if you LOAD IT UP WITH OPTIONS you can get STICKER to go to 40k but there aren't a whole lot of people paying $40,000 for these, most people are not getting the navi version, they are just getting either the base or the bbs package w/o nav.

Oh and BTW, the STI can be had for WAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY less than 40 grand.

You guys are leaving out the fact that you have to add a TWO THOUSAND dollar nav system to get to 40grand. A non BBS STI runs under 36 grand. Which is only about $1200 more than an 05 STI was.


But keep spewing loads and loads of crap without having done ANY research, or having ever sat in, let alone driven an 08 STI. Dont bother looking to see what they REALLY cost.

How do I know a bunch of you (not all, but most of the people in this thread) are bandwagon jumping idiots? Because you ACTUALLY BELIEVE C&D. Anyone with a brain has seen the pattern and has known for years that C&D uses test drivers with questionable (at best) driving skill.

Like their review of the 02 WRX that they could only manage a 15.4sec 1/4 mile run.
Meanwhile everyone else was knocking off 14.4-14.6s

But hey, dont bother ever DRIVING ONE for yourself, just swing from the nuts of a magazine. just like 3/4 of nasioc. Effing book mechanics and magazine racers.
Not a single one of that group has any idea what they are talking about. Go the hell back to the newbie forum and scream about BOVs making you run rich and CAIs making you run lean.

Quoted for non-biased opinions. :lol:

"2008 STI Disappoints in (insert every test here)."

Personally the LL2 category of 30-60k is a bit ridiculous.

For the cost of an STI with $10,000 in upgrades you're still not into M3, S5, C63 or IS-F price territory.

Stock for Stock, sure the STI may seem weak next to those behemoths, but are we even comparing the same class of car here?

You can argue in favor for the Evo X and S2k, but really, I think the tests are a bit skewed.

You can argue in favor for the Evo X and S2k, but really, I think the tests are a bit skewed.

Yeah, they totally designed VIR for all cars, except Subies. :rolleyes:

I hope that subaru is looking at this... What the current STI is today, should have been the 2008 LGT STI and not the All or nothing WRX STI..

HEY SUBARU.. here's a brilliant idea.. put the current STI Drivetrain/suspension/engine in the LGT (where it belongs) and start the WRX STI from SCRATCH....

Yeah, they totally designed VIR for all cars, except Subies. :rolleyes:


C&D is not a reputable source of performance testing. It hasn't been for a while.

They've had a major gaffes in the past couple of years.

Don't let this crappy magazine "test" get to you guys. C&D is about as subjective as watching a commercial for X brand car.

It takes some balls to come on to enthusiast site and post lackluster results for a car which has in almost every other race course test, lap within a + or - 1-2s of an EVO and show a result that is 6s seconds slower then its truest competitor without a reasonable analysis.

The real story here is why C&D decided to post on NASIOC and why their test drivers suck.

What setting(s) did you use for the DCCD and VDC systems? Im sure you used Sport#, but how about the rest?


considering how subaru is getting flack for all the new impreza's, i don't think it should be a surprise.
personally i look at new subaru's and wish the company just died in 07. makes me feel stupid for wanting to be subaru loyal, especially since they destroyed every good model they were producing. there is absolutely nothing the new STI/WRX/Impreza or forester offer i would like. i don't like the add ons like navi or MP3 systems. when i think wrx/STi i think base model with lots of performance under it. i think mean looking.... not frames around the door windows so it don't clunk as loud not sideways mufflers or dual outlets, not gay clear tailights. not interior styling. I definately DON'T think hot hatch, i'm not from europe.

I just can't help but wonder if the people from subaru got hit by a bus and are now like arnie from "Whats eating Gilbert Grape".

C&D is not a reputable source of performance testing. It hasn't been for a while.

So your theory is that they go to the trouble of renting out a race track and organizing umpteen test cars, only to throw away the results and make up lap times for the purpose of making a certain brand look bad?

C&D is not a reputable source of performance testing. It hasn't been for a while.

They've had a major gaffes in the past couple of years.

Don't let this crappy magazine "test" get to you guys. C&D is about as subjective as watching a commercial for X brand car.

It takes some balls to come on to enthusiast site and post lackluster results for a car which has in almost every other race course test, lap within a + or - 1-2s of an EVO and show a result that is 6s seconds slower then its truest competitor without a reasonable analysis.

The real story here is why C&D decided to post on NASIOC and why their test drivers suck.

Please post up a link to all of these other reputable tests proving that C&D is wrong.

Blah... everyone knows stock 08's suck. I bet you spend 1k on that car and it owns everything in the test.

I couldn't have said it any better.
Subaru killed the Impreza for good.

I think we all knew they were doomed with the Kia style WRX :(

This test is just another one of many clearly showing how badly Subaru messed up the 08-09 STI.

Way too soft suspension leading to way too much body roll. Even my 05 STI has way too much body roll, but now in the 08-09 its much much worse.

Badly underpowered at just 305hp. Should be at the very least 350hp for the price they are asking. Seriously, if I can get a 300hp BMW 335 or 135 for the same price as a 300hp Subaru, something is way off.

No AYC. Thus understeer.

Slower steering ratio in America's STI than rest of world.

No twin scroll turbo in America's STI.

Ugly, cheap, crappy seats that ruin the interior of the car while the rest of the world gets beautiful and supportive Recaros. Recaros that not only are far more comfortable but make the interior look a lot better.

Way too heavy. The STI needs to drop at least another 100 pounds. Just give me 100 pounds less Subaru, you will be amazed what happens to those track times.

No DSG, but that's forgiveable as many people still want 6 speed manual.

And worst of all, WAY TOO EXPENSIVE. Like I said before, if G37's and 335's are the same price, with the same performance, something is seriously wrong. Who the hell would buy an STI over a 335 for the same price? The STI needs to be no more than 32,000. Anything more than that and it's no longer a good value. No one wants a 40,000 Subaru when you can get BMW's, Audi's, and Benz's at that price range!!

Hopefully comparos like this will give Subaru a kick in the pants to get the STI back to it's M3 beating glory days. Please Subaru, please get our beloved STI back to it's iconic heights, you are losing customers left and right. Oh, and fix those ugly ugly 90's style taillights! My God are those things ugly.

A front wheel drive Cobalt SS priced 10,000 less than an STI spanked it around a track! That is shocking, sad, and sickening. Subaru better have a monster in store for 2010 or the STI will die in America.

[QUOTE=Davenow


But hey, dont bother ever DRIVING ONE for yourself, just swing from the nuts of a magazine. just like 3/4 of nasioc. Effing book mechanics and magazine racers.
[/QUOTE]


lol :lol:

Subaru, Hint: When you're getting this much flack from your enthusiast website, it's a pretty good sign you did something wrong.

Now fire whoever you got to design those hideous taillights, and spend the money you were paying him to find a way to rip 200lbs out of the STi (psst... you can start with all those computerized gizmos we don't really want) then throw on bigger sway bars, stiffer suspension, and then put some seats in the thing that'll hold us in place for all the g's the car will now be pulling.

FYI guys, all the info saying that the 09 STI is the same car as the 08, is rumor. No one knows for sure yet. So stop trashing a car that the full story isnt even out yet.

Isnt there a member here on Nasioc with a 2009 STI, granted he's Canadian...but he still counts

Yeah, they totally designed VIR for all cars, except Subies. :rolleyes:

I think I was talking about $58k cars in the same bracket as ones that cost $38k.

But you already knew that.

Let's not argue; the 08 sti is a great daily and would be a logical step up from an 06 if it was ever so slightly tightened up a bit; which is what could happen for 09, if the WRX is any indication.

The STi is a great car, but the Cobalt SS is teh F4st4r!!!!

Seriously, for about 22k, that's one quick little bugger. might get a sedan to replace the Saabaru someday.

I think I was talking about $58k cars in the same bracket as ones that cost $38k.

But you already knew that.

The STi was slower than 12 of the 15 cars in its bracket. At least half of these cost well below $58k.

Why are the results skewed? C&D gave the same feedback as all of the other reviews I've read about this car. (Not including stories by biased Subaru owners.) I'm not trying to pick an internet fight here, and maybe I'm just wrong. Someone please provide a non-biased review and show me my opinion is wrong! I'm a Subie owner too, and I want to like the car!

I believe they drove the car incorrectly...If I recall, the STi beat out the evo by a few milliseconds on the top gear test track with the Stig. So they should have been able to have the results at least within a few seconds of the evo.

[...]I definately DON'T think hot hatch, i'm not from europe.[...]

You'd better get use to hatches (hot or not :)). And fast. That's one of the most useful and practical kind of body style out there. It's also very attractive when it's done right.
Besides, Subaru most likely went for a hatch body style to try regaining some competitive edge in WRC. And I'm not from Europe either (even if I have been heavily influenced by it ;)).

I hope that subaru is looking at this... What the current STI is today, should have been the 2008 LGT STI and not the All or nothing WRX STI..

HEY SUBARU.. here's a brilliant idea.. put the current STI Drivetrain/suspension/engine in the LGT (where it belongs) and start the WRX STI from SCRATCH....


yes! ive been thinking this for years. subaru needs to come up with a wider variety of tune-able engines and not just throw the STI engine in everything and call it good because frankly they havent changed the STI engine in 4 years and for some reason they keep throwing it into every 'new' car they want to advertise as a "sports car" when the prodrive P2 although it was a concept that car could have been just shy of a super car if subaru would (for the love of god) come out with a different tuning platform to build on other than the 300hp 2.5L turbo engine we have been hearing and seeing for years.

i am fed up with subaru sti's. and i will be until they decide to come out with something other than the cleshe 2.5l engine. however i am completely content with the boxer style engines i think it brings a very unique twist to subaru that they should not abandon (spelling?).

bottom line is that subaru messed up on the 08 sti.

I don't think Subaru messed up, but the STI clearly isn't the car it used to be. It IS softer and quieter, which makes it pretty nice to live with every day, for a lot of normal people. Perhaps Subaru will expand the world of STI owners this way.

I couldn't stand the way my 2008 STI felt like it was going to roll over in every corner, so I swapped out the stock suspension as my very first mod, in favor of Cusco coilovers.

I find the seats very comfortable, although they aren't much to look at, and they certainly don't look/feel expensive.

I think Subaru should reverse-engineer the Evo's active handling stuff and subsitute that for the DCCD stuff in the STI. I can't figure out my DCCD, and don't put in enough track miles to sort out the differences, so it's always in auto mode.

I'm not convinced the hatchback body is any less rigid than the old sedan. But I can't argue with C&D's description of the suspension. The stock suspension is WAY too soft for the race track, and I'm sure that's the main reason it got trounced.

As a supplier of aftermarket goodies, flaws in a new model are just an opportunity for me to sell people something to fix those flaws... :)

--Dan
Mach V
FastWRX.com (www.fastwrx.com)

WTB 22B remake for the next impreza makeover. :)

The whole world does NOT get the 15:1 rack. The "standard" STI in Japan has a 13:1 or 14:1 rack. I also think the European version is the quicker rack, not to mention the Europeans get those awesome special STI's like Japan.

Yes you can get BETTER equipped Mercedes, Audi's, BMW's, and Infiniti's for the price. I can get sporty german sedans with light years better interior and exterior, with same ballpark performance, for LESS. Look it up man.The STI is way too expensive for the sad performance it exhibits.

Just look at those terribly cheap, ugly seats in the STI(as opposed to the stunning Recaros the rest of the world gets).

The interior is clearly a big step down from the competition.

Even the Evo gets great seats for God's sake. Yes it has a cheap interior too and is overpriced but at least the Evo can throw it down on the track and kick some ass, unlike SOA's STI.



you are correct- Japan gets the 13:1, which does suck, although the BMW, Merc, and Audi all have 15:1 or slower racks. Europe and Australia get the 15:1, same as us. I guess there's no RHD 13:1 rack yet- that sucks.

ok, I looked it up (actually, I crossed-shopped the 335 when I bought my '08). A 335xi with just the sport package (to get 18" wheels) and cargo pass through (it is up against a wagon;)) has an msrp of 44, 110. That is without the 2k nav adder. So you have to pay $8k+ more to get the BMW's superior interior (but no leather- that's even more) refinement, and great stg2 whp. While the BMW is definitely a classy car, if I wanted that I would have bought it. But I didn't, I wanted a performance wagon, and when I'm done spending 50k on either car, I'll be faster in the subaru and still have a wagon.

But don't get me wrong, I'm all for subaru fixing the "stock" car, and there are many things I'm not happy about with the car, but let's keep this in perspective and not go flying off the handle any time someone says "08".

Frank

Oh, and while everyone's in their wish-list mode, I'd like a twin-turbo flat-6 STI based on the EZ30R engine. Thanks subaru- I know you're reading this.

It takes some balls to come on to enthusiast site and post lackluster results for a car which has in almost every other race course test, lap within a + or - 1-2s of an EVO and show a result that is 6s seconds slower then its truest competitor without a reasonable analysis.

The real story here is why C&D decided to post on NASIOC and why their test drivers suck.


He brings up a valid point. What was the point of C&D coming here to post this info...if it really was someone from C&D. I could understand if it were an article praising the STi and they wanted to give a shout-out to the fans of that crowd. But to come here and basically say "We tested your car against a bunch of others and it sucks"--what is the point? Even if their findings are based on accurate results/numbers, posting here makes no sense other than someone at C&D obviously wanting to stick their tongue out at us. If they're willing to do that, who's to say they aren't capable of producing biased test results. I don't read them enough to know much about them. I'm not accusing them of anything. But, for those of you who think it's far-fetched for the media to not have an agenda or a bias in the stories it produces, you're too niave for your own good. People in the media can and sometimes do twist or manipulate elements to make the story they want. How many of you would test the car you despise with the exact same open mindness that you would whatever model of STi you do prefer? Not everyone in the media is interested in the same level of fact and truth. I assume most you you remember how shockingly easy it was to crash into a GMC pickup truck and make it explode, because the evening news showed us how easily they captured it on video...

So some of you don't like the '08. Send your feedback to SOA with specifics. I would hardly consider the 08-09 the "Mustang II" of the Subaru world. (If any of you even know what the Mustang II was.) Seriously, though, can you blame them for trying something a little bit different? The automotive industry is completely uncertain at this point in history. What if the STi you don't prefer sold more units than previous models? I'm just saying, from a purely business standpoint, maybe it wasn't a bad thing to try. If the STi is truly as horrible and as big a failure as some say it is, don't you think Subaru will respond to that and change things up? Does anyone know how 08 sales numbers compare to previous models?

magazine editor trolling? :lol: that's a new one, but the reasons certainly are questionable.

What the crap?!? How did I not know about this? I live 45mins from the track and would've loved to have had the chance to see this.

Still waiting for the evidence that cd skewed the results...

subaru needs to read this.. GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARDS MORONS AND MAKE A REAL STI AGAIN!!!

Oh and BTW, the STI can be had for WAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY less than 40 grand.

You guys are leaving out the fact that you have to add a TWO THOUSAND dollar nav system to get to 40grand. A non BBS STI runs under 36 grand. Which is only about $1200 more than an 05 STI was.


But keep spewing loads and loads of crap without having done ANY research, or having ever sat in, let alone driven an 08 STI. Dont bother looking to see what they REALLY cost.

How do I know a bunch of you (not all, but most of the people in this thread) are bandwagon jumping idiots? Because you ACTUALLY BELIEVE C&D. Anyone with a brain has seen the pattern and has known for years that C&D uses test drivers with questionable (at best) driving skill.

Like their review of the 02 WRX that they could only manage a 15.4sec 1/4 mile run.
Meanwhile everyone else was knocking off 14.4-14.6s

But hey, dont bother ever DRIVING ONE for yourself, just swing from the nuts of a magazine. just like 3/4 of nasioc. Effing book mechanics and magazine racers.
Not a single one of that group has any idea what they are talking about. Go the hell back to the newbie forum and scream about BOVs making you run rich and CAIs making you run lean.

Quoted for truth, kids.

JasonCPS, quit talking out of your a$$. A 335i is nowhere close to costing the same as a STI. I know, I crossed shopped them. As posted earlier, add 8K to price of car to get your precious 335i. A 135i stripped is close to the price of a STI. Good luck finding a stripped version of a 135i without ordering one.

I paid 33,800 for my NEW BBS STI. If you factor in our crappy economy and inflation, you are actually paying less for the new car than a 2004 STI!

The seats are fine. Are they Recaro's? No, but they are vastly more comfortable than the bobble head spring seats they replaced. I would love to have the Recaros and if they decide to add them later, I will most likely order them IF they are comfortable enough for everyday use.

The car is more mature, more utilitarian and is just as fast as the old car. There have been several reviews that show this. I have owned 3 STI's and don't understand all the lies and half-truths that are posted on the interwebz about the 2008 STI?

For all of you that hate the hatch: TOUGH, ITS HERE TO STAY. SUBARU IS TRYING TO WIN A WRC CHAMPIONSHIP. THE SEDAN IS DONE. GET OVER IT.

Let's be realistic here folks- the '08 is potentially a better chassis that is being hampered by subaru's intentional detuning. Yes, I agree the steering is vague- that needs to be fixed, but the grip and performance of the car is completely obscured by the factory suspension bits. Subaru needs to bring over the Spec C now thay they've created this huge hole in their lineup so that they can win some "stock" comparos again.

Frank

That's man is right !!!

Oh and BTW, the STI can be had for WAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY less than 40 grand.

You guys are leaving out the fact that you have to add a TWO THOUSAND dollar nav system to get to 40grand. A non BBS STI runs under 36 grand. Which is only about $1200 more than an 05 STI was.


But keep spewing loads and loads of crap without having done ANY research, or having ever sat in, let alone driven an 08 STI. Dont bother looking to see what they REALLY cost.

How do I know a bunch of you (not all, but most of the people in this thread) are bandwagon jumping idiots? Because you ACTUALLY BELIEVE C&D. Anyone with a brain has seen the pattern and has known for years that C&D uses test drivers with questionable (at best) driving skill.

Like their review of the 02 WRX that they could only manage a 15.4sec 1/4 mile run.
Meanwhile everyone else was knocking off 14.4-14.6s

But hey, dont bother ever DRIVING ONE for yourself, just swing from the nuts of a magazine. just like 3/4 of nasioc. Effing book mechanics and magazine racers.
Not a single one of that group has any idea what they are talking about. Go the hell back to the newbie forum and scream about BOVs making you run rich and CAIs making you run lean.

Looks like someone owns an 08 STI:lol:

Lap times that actually matter and aren't terrible:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear_Test_Track#Power_Laps

I direct you to #57 and #58. Sorry but, I'll take the stigs driving over CnD.

Looks like someone owns an 08 STI:lol:

Mine cost me 35,8. Throw in a AVIC 700BT headunit which is better than stock and you're at 36,1. Yep, that's 40k! Nevermind they don't even have the BBS wheels on it.

As a supplier of aftermarket goodies, flaws in a new model are just an opportunity for me to sell people something to fix those flaws... :)

--Dan
Mach V
FastWRX.com (http://www.fastwrx.com)

Lol you DEVIANT! Now.. let me go to your website and see what I should buy :)

Lap times that actually matter and aren't terrible:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear_Test_Track#Power_Laps

I direct you to #57 and #58. Sorry but, I'll take the stigs driving over CnD.


^Agreed. I only look at CnD for pictures, nothing else :)

don't understand all the lies and half-truths that are posted on the interwebz about the 2008 STI?

On behalf of the internet, you caught us. We have totally fabricated the lies that the 2008 is ugly and does not perform better than every other car on earth. We have joined forces in a conspiracy with all other forms of media to smear this car to death. It is actually quite beautiful, and performs better than every other car on the planet, especially the previous STi models. We are sorry for hurting your feelings.

Also, from SRT USA, recent studies indicate that heavy, nose-plowing cars are the key to success in rally racing. In adition, the rear suspension on the new 08 STi is totally amazing, and we definitely will not replace it with the rear suspension from the older models. GO TEAM! ;)

Lap times that actually matter and aren't terrible:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear_Test_Track#Power_Laps

I direct you to #57 and #58. Sorry but, I'll take the stigs driving over CnD.

Let's compare and contrast that course layout with VIR... :lol:

Automobile Magazine must also be biased:

"When judged against its competitors, Fuji's fastest often comes up short, but its fans don't care."

"Subaru made the mistake of allowing us to drive the STI on two different racetracks (Japan's Fuji Speedway, below left, and California's Laguna Seca, above right) before we drove it on the street, so our initial impressions weren't positive. On a smooth racetrack, the STI is a one-trick pony - one that does a perfect impression of an understeering pig. Tightening the line with the throttle is an impossibility - the only way the STI's tail can be coaxed out is by way of a violent Scandinavian flick-rally-style, replete with a well-timed throttle lift..."

Isnt there a member here on Nasioc with a 2009 STI, granted he's Canadian...but he still counts

There are several of us in Canada with 09 STI's.
I have not had it at a track yet, I can't really speculate. I take that article with a grain of salt. This whole thread makes me laugh. I track all of my Sube's, but I don't leave any of them stock, so who cares. I've had 4 WRX/STI's in 7 years. The 08/09 STI's work just fine.

1) The 08 is not very attractive

2) The 08 is not very competitive

3) The 08 is not on my list for my next car

The whole "I could change X or Y and beat car Z" argument is STUPID. Could you make an 08 faster? Sure. Could you make it corner better? Sure. Could you make it look better? Unlikely.

If I hear one more person say that with 10k of mods they can beat a Ferrari/Porsche/BMW/insert real performance car here, I am going to explode!

Get over it. The 08 might be a MORE COMFORTABLE DAILY DRIVER, but I bet the # of people who buy an STI because they want a comfy DD is < 5%.

Subaru... time to snap back to reality

1) The 08 is not very attractive

2) The 08 is not very competitive

3) The 08 is not on my list for my next car

The whole "I could change X or Y and beat car Z" argument is STUPID. Could you make an 08 faster? Sure. Could you make it corner better? Sure. Could you make it look better? Unlikely.

If I hear one more person say that with 10k of mods they can beat a Ferrari/Porsche/BMW/insert real performance car here, I am going to explode!

Get over it. The 08 might be a MORE COMFORTABLE DAILY DRIVER, but I bet the # of people who buy an STI because they want a comfy DD is < 5%.

Subaru... time to snap back to reality


You are entitled to your subjective opinion.
The 08/09 STI is a very capable car and does not feel slower than any other USDM version. They all understeer and none of them run flat around corners.
Get over it.
I own a new STI. I've owned 3 others.
How many 08/09 STI's have you owned or driven?

If the Cobalt had only beaten the STI then I would be like "Oh Darn!" However...I just can't believe that it would beat the S2K, EVO X, Lotus, 135i and the STI.

I have to agree SUBARU again is dropping the ball. that's why i am sticking with my 05STI and not even considering another SUBARU any time soon. If i want a daily drive i will get 2009 Pontiac G8 GXP for the same price and call it a day.You get 402HP and decent ride. There is just too many daily driver cars out there for around 30K pushing more power then the STI and the STI i think was not build to be 100% daily driver. The Legacy is build for that but way underpowered as well. The EVO is again on my list as i do like DSG and i think that will be the future. Is time for SUBARU to move to 21st century and add some technology and power to the STI and then may be will get people to buy this car for MSRP not invoice or under invoice. I will gladly pay 40K for an STI with 370HP and DSG transmission better suspension and 18" BBS and that will be a bargain.Then no one will even talk about 335i or G37 being on there shopping list.

Please post up a link to all of these other reputable tests proving that C&D is wrong.

Find it yourself... It's quite easy...

Look up their 1/4 mile times for the GT-R and the M3 versus GT-R review.

Also, look up their last lightning lap where they almost managed to make a Mustang beat a 911 TT at VIR.

Try "Car and Driver bias" search, Google is your friend;)

He brings up a valid point. What was the point of C&D coming here to post this info...if it really was someone from C&D. I could understand if it were an article praising the STi and they wanted to give a shout-out to the fans of that crowd. But to come here and basically say "We tested your car against a bunch of others and it sucks"--what is the point? Even if their findings are based on accurate results/numbers, posting here makes no sense other than someone at C&D obviously wanting to stick their tongue out at us. If they're willing to do that, who's to say they aren't capable of producing biased test results. I don't read them enough to know much about them. I'm not accusing them of anything. But, for those of you who think it's far-fetched for the media to not have an agenda or a bias in the stories it produces, you're too niave for your own good. People in the media can and sometimes do twist or manipulate elements to make the story they want. How many of you would test the car you despise with the exact same open mindness that you would whatever model of STi you do prefer? Not everyone in the media is interested in the same level of fact and truth. I assume most you you remember how shockingly easy it was to crash into a GMC pickup truck and make it explode, because the evening news showed us how easily they captured it on video...



I can't think of one time that C&D has posted a comparo on another forum. What exactly does C&D gain from this?

They have their own forum and website. What exactly was the rationale behind the decision. I wish they had the balls to have posted their GT-R comparo on Nissan forum.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/scoop-letter-from-car-and-driver-to-nissan-leaked-to-ttac/


Scoop! Letter from Car and Driver to Nissan Leaked to TTAC

By Gary Powers
June 3, 2008 - 1,766 views



In the July issue of Car and Driver, the BMW M3 coupe beat the Nissan GT-R in a comparison test. I couldn't understand how this happened, or even why they'd be comparing the two, until I found a copy of this letter:

Dear Nissan,

You may have noticed (we hope someone does) that BMW's M3 beat your GT-R in our recent "Vision Quest" comparo. We want to apologize for this. Please don't feel bad. The GT-R really is a great car, as witnessed by the fact that we rated it higher than the Porsche 911 Turbo. But as BMW is secretly our parent company, they demanded that their M3 win any and all comparisons. As we are contractually obligated to have a BMW win at least four comparisons a year, well, it was your turn.

We did give Nissan the inside back cover and wrote a nice one-year update on the Altima. There are also a couple of complimentary articles about the Infiniti G35xS and the FX50S. Oh and by the way, that FX50S is an impressive ride, but you really need to do something about the silly "bionic cheetah" moniker that you've attached to it.

Anyway, rest assured that we feel very badly about placing the GT-R behind the M3. Even though the M3 is slower in the quarter mile, 0-60 and around a track, the BMW does have a bigger back seat and more usable trunk space.

Again, please take solace in the fact that your GT-R totally demolished the Porsche 911 Turbo, which is a worthless car. By "worthless" we mean it's an OK enough car, but Porsche doesn't spend enough money advertising in our magazine. When was the last time you saw a two-page ad for a 911 or an inside cover ad for the Boxster? I wish we could stop covering their lame cars altogether, but they've weaseled themselves into an important position in the automotive industry with all of their performance, history and heritage. So try as we might, we can't ignore them.

Enough about the third-place finisher, the over-powered 911 Turbo. We are here to apologize for that first place finish awarded to the M3.

If we were really honest, the M3 wouldn't have been in the comparison. It's in a totally different class than your GT-R. The thing is, our comparo is the first in a new series with cars competing out of their league. We think our advertisers (that's you!) will love this new marketing plan. It will give prestige to the lower end cars. Next month, a Nissan Rogue will beat the Porsche Cayenne. Just think how Nissan salesmen all over the country will be able to promote the Rogue as the "SUV that beat the Cayenne!"

The month after that, the Nissan Sentra will win against the Lotus Exige. Of course, we need to keep our journalistic integrity. So we'll use the base Exige vs. the Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V. The little Lotus won't stand a chance. I mean have you seen the back seat in an Exige? No, you haven't, because there isn't one. The trunk? Tiny! Rear doors? Nada! The Nissan Sentra is obviously the superior car. A lot of automotive reporting outlets don't have the courage to compare an Exige to a Sentra, but we think it's time–once again– to put your money where our mouth is.

If you think about it, this will work out better for Nissan in the long run. The GT-R can withstand a second place finish to the benchmark BMW M3. (Sorry, we're contractually obligated to put the word "benchmark" at least once every time we write about BMW, and technically we are writing about them.) Anyway, as the first year supply of your GT-R is sold out, what do you care? It's not as if someone's going to say, I WAS going to buy a Maxima, but now that the GT-R got beat by a Bimmer I'll buy a high-mileage 3-Series.

Bottom line (our first and only concern): we're truly sorry for the second place finish to the M3. We wanted to write it as a tie, but the Germans have no sense of humor. (Just imagine if we'd written "Every other manufacturer should give up on building their own cars and just make GT-Rs instead.")

But we don't want this article to damage our mutually profitable relationship. And if you want to be mad at someone, have you seen what that "The Truth About Cars" web site is saying about the GT-R's record around the ‘ring? The nerve of some people. Adiosu!

Yours sincerely,

Car and Driver Magazine

^^^ I can't believe somone took the time to make all that up. Impressive!

what is the purpose of a car?
you DRIVE it, not LOOK at it

you will NOT find any 335(i or XI or whatever below $40k, you think you do but you wont. not to mention ZR or GTR

can you drive your family out without getting off your car and flip your seat with any other "competitve" cars? except evo? bare in mind, the 335i sedan starting at 40k, thas STARTING, and the 328i closer to the STI price range has only 230hp. For detail http://www.bmwusa.com/Default.aspx

All you haters who talk crap about the new STI, how many of you have actually driven one? i did and i think its got more space for driver and the person behind the driver, interior is better, gauges are better when compare with 07, acceleration is not as aggressive as 07 due to the electronic control and the suspension is softer but i think its something acceptable. appearence, not as agressive than previous models, but with wider body, not bad at all.

are all those number reliable? i personally dont think lap time can judge a car's performance. besides performance is nothing unless you have tried it yourself. just like comparing a rifle and a SMG.

how many of you will track your daily driver? how many of you will/can push all the potential from you daily driven? to me a 08 sti is a car for peope who are mature enough to judge a car by its capability over apperance.

Find it yourself... It's quite easy...

Look up their 1/4 mile times for the GT-R and the M3 versus GT-R review.

Also, look up their last lightning lap where they almost managed to make a Mustang beat a 911 TT at VIR.

Try "Car and Driver bias" search, Google is your friend;)

What dooes that have to do with this? I asked for someone to post up reviews/test from another source that shows different results from C&D. Someone mentioned a tie between an EVO and STi on the Top Gear figure 8 course. I guess that's the best we've got.

Explain to me what C&D would gain by misrepresenting the Subaru performance, and show me the evidence that they did this. Then we can drop this. Right now I just feel like we've got the butt-hurt, can't handle criticism 08 fan/owner thing going on again.

What dooes that have to do with this? I asked for someone to post up reviews/test from another source that shows different results from C&D. Someone mentioned a tie between an EVO and STi on the Top Gear figure 8 course. I guess that's the best we've got.

Explain to me what C&D would gain by misrepresenting the Subaru performance, and show me the evidence that they did this. Then we can drop this. Right now I just feel like we've got the butt-hurt, can't handle criticism 08 fan/owner thing going on again.

The point I'm trying to make that after multiple a serious gaffes by C&D, no one takes their tests seriously anymore.

Why the hell did they decide to post this drivel off their website/forums on an enthusiast site for a particular model/brand. Something that they have never done before. Which raises some serious alarm bells in my head. Are they trolling for next comparo to sell more issues?

I'm trying to figure out their little game....

If you're looking for times when the new STI has beaten the EVO look at Best Motoring. They have had test where the JDM STI beat the EVO at Tsukuba. Also, the last season of Top Gear had the UK STI edging out the FQ 300 EVO.

I don't understand why Subaru can't sell us some different versions of the STi. (spec c anyone?) Sell a cushy one for the masses, and a lighter, tighter sprung, higher HP version for us? It seems the aftermarket engineers have no problem improving on the platform, so why can't the factory?

what is the purpose of a car?
you DRIVE it, not LOOK at it. :lol:

All you haters who talk crap about the new STI:
Yes, ALL of us who criticize are "haters."
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1377783

i personally dont think lap time can judge a car's performance.::lol::lol:

On behalf of the internet, you caught us. We have totally fabricated the lies that the 2008 is ugly and does not perform better than every other car on earth. We have joined forces in a conspiracy with all other forms of media to smear this car to death. It is actually quite beautiful, and performs better than every other car on the planet, especially the previous STi models. We are sorry for hurting your feelings.

Also, from SRT USA, recent studies indicate that heavy, nose-plowing cars are the key to success in rally racing. In adition, the rear suspension on the new 08 STi is totally amazing, and we definitely will not replace it with the rear suspension from the older models. GO TEAM! ;)

Glenn,

Lies:

1. The car is slower than previous models. Untrue- "this is the fastest STI we have tested" -edmunds It is faster around a track, through the slalom and goes from 60-0 braking in a shorter distance than the old model. It is not the greatest car on earth. I never said that.

2. The car is ugly. -Thats a subjective half truth, the previous generations win NO beauty awards. It will "grow" on everyone, and the next model will be "OMG its sooooooo ugly".

3. The car will not be competitive in WRC events. Not true, everyone at Prodrive, Petter Solberg, etc all say that this car has MUCH more potential than the previous outdated generation. Its up to them to make it a winner. I'm sure it has its fair share of issues, including the rear end setup, but the car is a step in the right direction for competing with Focus, and the C4. The car is not any more nose heavy than the previous generation. :rolleyes: The new car has much less overhang for negotiating narrow rally stages, IE Rally Japan, etc. They have also said the car is much more stable on stages and has been VERY reliable with no mechanical retirements thus far. Atkinson retired from the last rally, but it was his own driving that did that. I can go back and count the mechanical retirements with the previous generation, but a lot of you will be butt-hurt over it.

I'm not coming on here to say the 2008 STI is the best. It's not by any stretch. But it is absolutely comparable to the previous generations. It sill has the slow steering rack. It still understeers. It has a little more body roll. So buy a few aftermarket goodies, AND FIX IT. Big deal.

EVO magazine did a comparison between the new EVO X and STI, and guess who won? The STI. They also had a EDM model with the SAME 2.5 engine and 17" wheels. I trust their judgment a lot more than C&D. They have good drivers, and their reviews are almost always spot on. EVO magazine stated that you really had to push the car, and once you got past a point, the car really responded. I'm not sure C&D ever got to that point? Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. It's like someone said earlier, The Stig from Top Gear beat a EVO X around the track, gizmos and all. C&D was 6 seconds slower. Interesting.

I've owned 3 STI's. This is by far my favorite. Its easy to live with, more mature and is every bit as fast. The stock tune does suck, but it is something we have to live with to get it into the USA with our strict emission laws and to get a higher MPG rating on the window sticker. An accessport or equivalent fixes all of that. The seats are much more comfortable, the interior is more classy and has better interior materials. Recaros would be great, but for an everyday car, the seats are fine. Those of you that think the STI should just be a track car need to wake up. That is not going to happen, EVER.

IT'S A HATCH/WAGON. GET OVER IT.

IT HAS CLEAR TAILLIGHTS OHHHHH NO. WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO!!! OH NO! THEY HAVE RUINED THE WORLD! SUBARU HAS LOST ITS WAY! TOYOTA HERE WE COME! OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOO. :unamused:

:lol:

Finally some common sense.
We both have a similar background with these cars.
I like the new one as much as every other one I have had.
The new STI is a little more grown up and refined. Do you blame Subaru for wanting to build their brand and break into new demographics?

It may be crap to a lot of people who are going to use it for the track, but for me i love the change, its going to be a daily driver and cant wait to get it. I just love everything about it..I dont worrry about what magazines say, if i like it im going to get it.

Please do this every year, we'll all be waiting to buy the cars from people like you for 30-50% less than dealer costs when you realize "damn, i'm spending alot on a car that just got wooped by a Cobalt SS!"

That way, we can buy performance parts virtually on your wallet and dig this ****ty overpriced STI from it's grave so it's actually imprezive!

thx!

Subaru clearly is shooting for a different market with the '08. Who that market is, I have no idea! Someone who wants to pay close to 40k for a car that looks like an old Ford Focus, dissapoints as a track car, and has an interior far inferior to other cars in that cost bracket. Honestly I can say as a big Subaru FAN that I'd buy 6-8 other cars before the '08 STi.

Glenn,

Lies:

1. The car is slower than previous models. Untrue- "this is the fastest STI we have tested" -edmunds It is faster around a track, through the slalom and goes from 60-0 braking in a shorter distance than the old model. It is not the greatest car on earth. I never said that.

2. The car is ugly. -Thats a subjective half truth, the previous generations win NO beauty awards. It will "grow" on everyone, and the next model will be "OMG its sooooooo ugly".

3. The car will not be competitive in WRC events. Not true, everyone at Prodrive, Petter Solberg, etc all say that this car has MUCH more potential than the previous outdated generation. Its up to them to make it a winner. I'm sure it has its fair share of issues, including the rear end setup, but the car is a step in the right direction for competing with Focus, and the C4. The car is not any more nose heavy than the previous generation. :rolleyes: The new car has much less overhang for negotiating narrow rally stages, IE Rally Japan, etc. They have also said the car is much more stable on stages and has been VERY reliable with no mechanical retirements thus far. Atkinson retired from the last rally, but it was his own driving that did that. I can go back and count the mechanical retirements with the previous generation, but a lot of you will be butt-hurt over it.

I'm not coming on here to say the 2008 STI is the best. It's not by any stretch. But it is absolutely comparable to the previous generations. It sill has the slow steering rack. It still understeers. It has a little more body roll. So buy a few aftermarket goodies, AND FIX IT. Big deal.

EVO magazine did a comparison between the new EVO X and STI, and guess who won? The STI. They also had a EDM model with the SAME 2.5 engine and 17" wheels. I trust their judgment a lot more than C&D. They have good drivers, and their reviews are almost always spot on. EVO magazine stated that you really had to push the car, and once you got past a point, the car really responded. I'm not sure C&D ever got to that point? Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. It's like someone said earlier, The Stig from Top Gear beat a EVO X around the track, gizmos and all. C&D was 6 seconds slower. Interesting.

I've owned 3 STI's. This is by far my favorite. Its easy to live with, more mature and is every bit as fast. The stock tune does suck, but it is something we have to live with to get it into the USA with our strict emission laws and to get a higher MPG rating on the window sticker. An accessport or equivalent fixes all of that. The seats are much more comfortable, the interior is more classy and has better interior materials. Recaros would be great, but for an everyday car, the seats are fine. Those of you that think the STI should just be a track car need to wake up. That is not going to happen, EVER.

IT'S A HATCH/WAGON. GET OVER IT.

IT HAS CLEAR TAILLIGHTS OHHHHH NO. WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO!!! OH NO! THEY HAVE RUINED THE WORLD! SUBARU HAS LOST ITS WAY! TOYOTA HERE WE COME! OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOO. :unamused:

Thanks again for providing facts, and a non-biased opinion. You have won us all over with your long-winded post. I retract all previous statements. The C&D track results and article were clearly written as an attack on the Subie community, and should be taken as an isult by us all.

Lap times that actually matter and aren't terrible:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear_Test_Track#Power_Laps

I direct you to #57 and #58. Sorry but, I'll take the stigs driving over CnD.

Thats quite an impressive list.... The 08 STI beating out the EVO, Dodge Viper SRT-10, Aston Martins, Lotus' and the Honda S2000 just too name a few. I wouldn't be totally sold on how bad everyone makes the STI to be. All the haters should look at this list closely and ask yourself if the new STI is still a good bang for the buck.

Apparently it may directly effect the 20% of STI buyers who actually track the car.

Haters should actually DRIVE the car and get back to me... Let magazine racing die...

Honeslty, I have driven the 04, 06 and now own an 08 STI and this is by far the best built, best gripping STI to date!

Add some sway bars and there is NO body roll... Complain about body roll all you want but even in stock form it hits a point and stops and there is SO much grip. Compared to previous models the body roll is not bad, it just looks bad on the outside.

Subaru dropped the ball? You will never convince me of that, and thats not because I am biased being an 08 owner. As a Subaru owner I think they hit a home run with the car! I like every year STI and was only put off by the looks of the 08 but if you can see past that and see past all the conflicting reviews and drive the car it is a lot better than previous models.

I got mine in March and got the base model for less than 34k OTD!!!! It is not that more expensive than previous models. Sure if you want Nav... that wasn't offered before... The one argument is BBS but if you pay more than 36k OTD on this car your nuts right now.

I would rather compare prices in the REAL world and not MSRP... No one pays MSRP and if they do they are idiots or really don't care about throwing money down.

Thanks again for providing facts, and a non-biased opinion. You have won us all over with your long-winded post. I retract all previous statements. The C&D track results and article were clearly written as an attack on the Subie community, and should be taken as an isult by us all.
Finally someone has come to their senses. :alien:

Also, from SRT USA, recent studies indicate that heavy, nose-plowing cars are the key to success in rally racing. In adition, the rear suspension on the new 08 STi is totally amazing, and we definitely will not replace it with the rear suspension from the older models. GO TEAM! ;)

You are mistaken here. SRT USA uses the 08 rear suspension though it has been beefed up quite a bit. Unlike the World rally team who is still using the mac strut setup. I was very intrigued by this and checked it out Patrami's car at rally colorado a few weekends back.

This is why I don't leave OT. WAAY too much whining and sandy vaginas around here....08/09 is what it is. Take it or leave it. Subaru decided to broaden its fan base which up until now consisted of....us with a hint of lesbian. The time for brute power and go kart handling is long gone, replaced by refinement and quiet confidence. I don't like it, therefore I won't buy it. My 03 WRX is more than enough car for me right now. Stop complaining. You don't have the final decision. You think Subaru is going to ask a whiny forum of only 200k what they should do and then ACTUALLY do it? Seriously? :rolleyes:

FYI guys, all the info saying that the 09 STI is the same car as the 08, is rumor. No one knows for sure yet. So stop trashing a car that the full story isnt even out yet.

It's out in Canada. It's the same car. Well, the 09 gets a moon roof.

It's out in Canada. It's the same car. Well, the 09 gets a moon roof.

We don't really know that yet. It could have minor changes to suspension geometry and engine management. No one has torn one apart yet or explored the ECU.

This is why I don't leave OT. WAAY too much whining and sandy vaginas around here....08/09 is what it is. Take it or leave it. Subaru decided to broaden its fan base which up until now consisted of....us with a hint of lesbian. The time for brute power and go kart handling is long gone, replaced by refinement and quiet confidence. I don't like it, therefore I won't buy it. My 03 WRX is more than enough car for me right now. Stop complaining. You don't have the final decision. You think Subaru is going to ask a whiny forum of only 200k what they should do and then ACTUALLY do it? Seriously? :rolleyes:

Rack that!!
+12345:mad::unamused::mad:

You are entitled to your subjective opinion.
The 08/09 STI is a very capable car and does not feel slower than any other USDM version. They all understeer and none of them run flat around corners.
Get over it.
I own a new STI. I've owned 3 others.
How many 08/09 STI's have you owned or driven?

Admittedly I have not driven the 08. I owned an 04, and an 02 WRX before that.

I would not purchase the 08 on looks alone. Was the 04 the best looking car out there? No, but at least it had an aggressive look backed up by aggressive performance. I don't care if a car is the fastest in the world, if it's STILL UGLY then it loses major points. A squashed RX300 with mismatched proportions and rediculous cladding making it almost Pontiac Aztek-like. A true design failure in almost every sense of the word.

The fact it is so much less competitive compared to cars in its class further weakens the argument.

I cant believe im saying this. As a subaru mechanic, fan, and driver, Im actually glad to see that this car is FAILING!

Subaru needs to wise up and go back to its roots of reliable and fun cars and not try to entise BMW owners.

-Nick-

Haahaha. I hope you are right man because the STI results are embarrassing.

You've got to agree with me on the seats thing though! :)

I think 36 grand is still too much to be honest. My 05 was 31,500 with BBS wheels and with the optional turbo guage. To me the 18" BBS wheels are the only way to go. The non BBS 17's are unacceptable and should not even be offered. Those wheels don't belong on an STI. So it is 36 grand at base config, complete with the worst stereo system in any car on the road regardless of price. To add a half decent sound system with NAV, its near 38 grand!

And for your info, I have sat in one, and driven one.

These numbers make it painfully clear that this "STI" is no longer the huge performance bargain it's predecessors once were. It's not the 30 grand car that's as fast or faster than 50-60 grand cars anymore, it's now the 40 grand car that is as slow or slower than 25 grand cars. That's basically what this test tells us.

I really hope you are right about these C&D results.

These statements make it painfully clear that you believe what you read in these magazines. Find any "NEW" BMW, Mercedes, or any other "beautiful German car" that has 300hp and AWD for under $40k.

Admittedly I have not driven the 08. I owned an 04, and an 02 WRX before that.

I would not purchase the 08 on looks alone. Was the 04 the best looking car out there? No, but at least it had an aggressive look backed up by aggressive performance. I don't care if a car is the fastest in the world, if it's STILL UGLY then it loses major points. A squashed RX300 with mismatched proportions and rediculous cladding making it almost Pontiac Aztek-like. A true design failure in almost every sense of the word.

The fact it is so much less competitive compared to cars in its class further weakens the argument.



I don't live my life based on the opinion of one or two sources that can have opposite conclusions on every different day of the week.
Real world personal experience is the benchmark.
Don't take a couple articles as the final truth, that's just wrong.
I am lucky enough to have driven some of the most exciting cars in the world and I can tell you that results vary a great deal depending on conditions and who's behind the wheel and where there skills lie.
You take a Speed World Challenge driver who usually pilots an RSX and throw him into a new STI and I guarantee that he's not going to get it around the track as quick as let's say Peter Solberg or Travis Pastrana. The opposite can be said as well. After a few laps in my friends E30 M3 this summer, I hopped back in my Subaru and the car was a pig, mostly because I got used to the M3's lines and had to get back into the AWD groove and line.
And again, your opinion of the looks of the car is, well, your opinion.........

i love how everyone and their mom is solely concerned about how the out of the box performance..
i will easily admit that unfortunately, straight out the box the sti is a dissapointment.. it feels soft, heavy, muted and slow....

BUT....... have any of your people that bitch about them here (or in a magazine) experienced an 08/09 with a solid suspension set up, rubber and stg2 performance? the car trumps the outgoing version in a heartbeat.
it's really an amazing chassis when you take its blinders off....

My $.02: The results makes sense. They did soften the 08 STI to appeal to a wider audience who are looking for fun daily drivers - so of course it's not going to do as well at the track, but it's a far more livable car. I just wish they would be a little more honest about that strategy and offer UHPAS tires.

It seems to me the easiest fix is to offer low production a track version at about the same price, like an STI TR.

For the record, I traded my Acura on an 08 STI partly because they softened it - I'm not fooling myself, my car is going to spend 99.8% of the time commuting.

PS. I cross shopped with BMW - those who say you can get a 335 or even a 135 for the cost of an STI... good luck. All the cars on the lots around here were optioned to the hilt and there were long waits and no deals on ordering a stripper with the performance options.

^ that's always the excuse

"blow the warranty and this car rocks!"

i love how everyone and their mom is solely concerned about how the out of the box performance..
i will easily admit that unfortunately, straight out the box the sti is a dissapointment.. it feels soft, heavy, muted and slow....

BUT....... have any of your people that bitch about them here (or in a magazine) experienced an 08/09 with a solid suspension set up, rubber and stg2 performance? the car trumps the outgoing version in a heartbeat.
it's really an amazing chassis when you take its blinders off....



Right on!

Also, who the hell buys an STI for the warranty?

The STi was slower than 12 of the 15 cars in its bracket. At least half of these cost well below $58k.

Why are the results skewed? C&D gave the same feedback as all of the other reviews I've read about this car. (Not including stories by biased Subaru owners.) I'm not trying to pick an internet fight here, and maybe I'm just wrong. Someone please provide a non-biased review and show me my opinion is wrong! I'm a Subie owner too, and I want to like the car!

We can argue all day on this, but here are two non biased reviews:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSCcqcpvPjA

and

EVO magazine posted on IWSTI: http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2008-sti-discussion/135227-evo-magazine-june-2008-my08-sti-vs-evo-x-sst.html

PS. I cross shopped with BMW - those who say you can get a 335 or even a 135 for the cost of an STI... good luck. All the cars on the lots around here were optioned to the hilt and there were long waits and no deals on ordering a stripper with the performance options.

Absolutely quoted for truth. Good luck getting a BMW dealer to give you a car for under invoice and the buy rate on the financing. :lol:

This test is just another one of many clearly showing how badly Subaru messed up the 08-09 STI.

Way too soft suspension leading to way too much body roll. Even my 05 STI has way too much body roll, but now in the 08-09 its much much worse.

Badly underpowered at just 305hp. Should be at the very least 350hp for the price they are asking. Seriously, if I can get a 300hp BMW 335 or 135 for the same price as a 300hp Subaru, something is way off.

No AYC. Thus understeer.

Slower steering ratio in America's STI than rest of world.

No twin scroll turbo in America's STI.

Ugly, cheap, crappy seats that ruin the interior of the car while the rest of the world gets beautiful and supportive Recaros. Recaros that not only are far more comfortable but make the interior look a lot better.

Way too heavy. The STI needs to drop at least another 100 pounds. Just give me 100 pounds less Subaru, you will be amazed what happens to those track times.

No DSG, but that's forgiveable as many people still want 6 speed manual.

And worst of all, WAY TOO EXPENSIVE. Like I said before, if G37's and 335's are the same price, with the same performance, something is seriously wrong. Who the hell would buy an STI over a 335 for the same price? The STI needs to be no more than 32,000. Anything more than that and it's no longer a good value. No one wants a 40,000 Subaru when you can get BMW's, Audi's, and Benz's at that price range!!

Hopefully comparos like this will give Subaru a kick in the pants to get the STI back to it's M3 beating glory days. Please Subaru, please get our beloved STI back to it's iconic heights, you are losing customers left and right. Oh, and fix those ugly ugly 90's style taillights! My God are those things ugly.

A front wheel drive Cobalt SS priced 10,000 less than an STI spanked it around a track! That is shocking, sad, and sickening. Subaru better have a monster in store for 2010 or the STI will die in America.

line for line, i agree with your assessment.

probably the most disturbing implications of the detuning, the slow steering ratio, and the childish interior are what this says about SOAs analysis of the average american--namely that we "can't handle" the same car the the japanese markets get and that we're stupid enough to pay the exorbitant price. Wake up, Subaru is selling out, compromising their vehicle design to streamline manufacturing and maximize profit. And as per usual, aesthetics and performance suffer.

Glad I recognized the trend and got my 07 wrx wagon which IMHO sports much smarter and more robust styling-interior and exterior alike. I'm gonna drive it till the wheels fall off and then do the full STI conversion.

One last point, the only thing that stupid intelligent drive nob does is redirect a small amount of the exhaust into the cabin.

line for line, i agree with your assessment.

probably the most disturbing implications of the detuning, the slow steering ratio, and the childish interior are what this says about SOAs analysis of the average american--namely that we "can't handle" the same car the the japanese markets get and that we're stupid enough to pay the exorbitant price. Wake up, Subaru is selling out, compromising their vehicle design to streamline manufacturing and maximize profit. And as per usual, aesthetics and performance suffer.

Glad I recognized the trend and got my 07 wrx wagon which IMHO sports much smarter and more robust styling-interior and exterior alike. I'm gonna drive it till the wheels fall off and then do the full STI conversion.

One last point, the only thing that stupid intelligent drive nob does is redirect a small amount of the exhaust into the cabin.


Please tell me you've driven one, 'cause if not, you're just another hater driving a WRX.

I don't understand why Subaru can't sell us some different versions of the STi. (spec c anyone?) Sell a cushy one for the masses, and a lighter, tighter sprung, higher HP version for us? It seems the aftermarket engineers have no problem improving on the platform, so why can't the factory?

The American Subies aren't allowed to be as good as the Japanese Subies haven't you heard?!?!

Please tell me you've driven one, 'cause if not, you're just another hater driving a WRX.


I don't like it on looks alone. I'm not a hater by any means. I just disagree with this change in marketing that Subaru has made. I think it defies the spirit that has made these cars unique and a good value. And yes, I've driven lots of STIs.

I don't like it on looks alone. I'm not a hater by any means. I just disagree with this change in marketing that Subaru has made. I think it defies the spirit that has made these cars unique and a good value. And yes, I've driven lots of STIs.


You can't fault them for growing their business.
The new STI grew on me once I saw it in the flesh.
I've driven every generation of STI including JDM models and this is the best mainstream STI yet in my opinion.

I do respect your opinion;)

I hope the changes in store for the 2009 WRX are a harbinger of better things for the STi (if not 2009, then 2010). Although I will probably never be able to afford an STi, I think it should be a hardcore performer, with no changes needed to make it that way. Leave the "family-friendly, comfortable daily driver" role to the "Impreza GT" and 2.5i.

I'm also quite impressed by the Cobalt SS. I'd almost consider going back to GM for it. Ugh, now I feel dirty, LOL.

This test is just another one of many clearly showing how badly Subaru messed up the 08-09 STI.

Way too soft suspension leading to way too much body roll. Even my 05 STI has way too much body roll, but now in the 08-09 its much much worse.

Badly underpowered at just 305hp. Should be at the very least 350hp for the price they are asking. Seriously, if I can get a 300hp BMW 335 or 135 for the same price as a 300hp Subaru, something is way off.

No AYC. Thus understeer.

Slower steering ratio in America's STI than rest of world.

No twin scroll turbo in America's STI.

Ugly, cheap, crappy seats that ruin the interior of the car while the rest of the world gets beautiful and supportive Recaros. Recaros that not only are far more comfortable but make the interior look a lot better.

Way too heavy. The STI needs to drop at least another 100 pounds. Just give me 100 pounds less Subaru, you will be amazed what happens to those track times.

No DSG, but that's forgiveable as many people still want 6 speed manual.

And worst of all, WAY TOO EXPENSIVE. Like I said before, if G37's and 335's are the same price, with the same performance, something is seriously wrong. Who the hell would buy an STI over a 335 for the same price? The STI needs to be no more than 32,000. Anything more than that and it's no longer a good value. No one wants a 40,000 Subaru when you can get BMW's, Audi's, and Benz's at that price range!!

Hopefully comparos like this will give Subaru a kick in the pants to get the STI back to it's M3 beating glory days. Please Subaru, please get our beloved STI back to it's iconic heights, you are losing customers left and right. Oh, and fix those ugly ugly 90's style taillights! My God are those things ugly.

A front wheel drive Cobalt SS priced 10,000 less than an STI spanked it around a track! That is shocking, sad, and sickening. Subaru better have a monster in store for 2010 or the STI will die in America.
Exactly why Subaru will have to make some drastic changes in their lineup and start offering Legacy STI's that have Recaros and are not a joke in the power department. I am ready and willing to upgrade my 05 STI for a 10 or 11 Legacy STI but I have a sick feeling I will be looking elsewhere. Too bad because I was willing to spend 40-45 for a real sport/grand touring car from Subaru.

C&D is not a reputable source of performance testing. It hasn't been for a while.

They've had a major gaffes in the past couple of years.

Don't let this crappy magazine "test" get to you guys. C&D is about as subjective as watching a commercial for X brand car.

It takes some balls to come on to enthusiast site and post lackluster results for a car which has in almost every other race course test, lap within a + or - 1-2s of an EVO and show a result that is 6s seconds slower then its truest competitor without a reasonable analysis.

The real story here is why C&D decided to post on NASIOC and why their test drivers suck.

Reminds me.
I just saw a comparison yesterday for best car under 20k by C&D.
Impreza 2.5i was ranked 10th... I didn't think much to look over the whole thing but 9th was the Lancer GSR, just looking at the comparison made absolutely no sense.
The Impreza was faster, handled better, and barely any more expensive. The only complaints were 'exhaust is too loud' (yes, the stock exhaust), and the interior is cramped.

Somehow those two things combined are worth less points than a better 1/4 mile and track times.
Odd.

I cant believe im saying this. As a subaru mechanic, fan, and driver, Im actually glad to see that this car is FAILING!

Subaru needs to wise up and go back to its roots of reliable and fun cars and not try to entise BMW owners.

-Nick-

BMW owners buy cars that are good looking. Does anyone remember the 2004-ish Civic Si "egg" that was scrapped in a year after it sold horribly? Nobody has a taste for this look in the US. Bumping the WRX to 265 horse was the best move Subaru has made in a while, since this car needs to sell by performance / function.

I think the lesson in all this will be how accurate C&D is. How viable the test was, or why specifically it was not.

Stig did beat the Evo X around Top Gear's track. So this test at C&D does look suspect for sure. But the STI gets criticized for the same things by everyone all over the world. It's not a C&D conspiracy.

Stig's result however still doesnt quell the huge complaints about the car. Just imagine if it was done right. Imagine what Stig would have done with a properly done STI.

The STI can be fantastic from the factory, and right now, in America especially, it's not.

Subaru it's really simple. 100 pounds less, at least 50hp more, proper suspension, new taillights, and Recaros. Then we will see who will be the cover boy of all these mags next year. That STI is a dream I hope comes true for us all.

I think the lesson in all this will be how accurate C&D is. How viable this test was, or specifically why it was not.

Stig did beat the Evo X around Top Gear's track. So this test at C&D does look suspect for sure.

However Stig's result still doesnt quell the huge complaints about the car. Just imagine if it was done right what Stig would have done.

The STI can be fantastic from the factory, and right now, in America especially, it's not.

Subaru it's really simple. 100 pounds less, at least 50hp more, proper suspension, and Recaros. Then we will see who will be the cover boy of all these mags next year. That STI is a dream I hope comes true for us all.

x2
And about your cover boy comment, I can't agree more. If you take a look at any magazine, the new EVO X is plastered ALL over the place.
The EVO is the STI's most direct competition/rivalry, and it's all over the place, I rarely see STI's in ad's unless I'm reading a subiesport.

And again, your opinion of the looks of the car is, well, your opinion.........

It's not just my opinion. How has it been selling? Anyone have those sales figures? I can't imagine it has been anywhere close to a success.

It's not just my opinion. How has it been selling? Anyone have those sales figures? I can't imagine it has been anywhere close to a success.

Irrelevant... Evox's are sitting on the lots as well. At least close to 1800-2000 08's sold. You will not see sales figures, since they havn't broken up model sales since 2004. The economy is definately not catering to this car right now... Sales figures will not come close to telling the story :)

Wow, the Cobalt SS is almost what the Evo and STI once were. Cheap looking, psychotically fast (for an economy car) and a bargain track racer. I bet GM could take that one step further and make a Saturn Astra "Redline" AWD and really embarrass Mitsu and Subaru with it and build it for like $26k w/Brembos like the Cobalt SS.

Just to let you know, that with the employee pricing sale GM is doing, that Cobalt is like $21,500. Too bad the interior sucks to a level not seen since the 90s.

I hope Subaru looks at all the bed press and make some meaningful updates to the STI.

Irrelevant... Evox's are sitting on the lots as well. At least close to 1800-2000 08's sold. You will not see sales figures, since they havn't broken up model sales since 2004. The economy is definately not catering to this car right now... Sales figures will not come close to telling the story :)

Would you believe there are still brand new 2006 Evos sitting on lots? Right alongside 2009 models. That says a lot IMO. It won't be long before you won't be able to find an 08 WRX.

This dealership still has two 06 MRs for 35 and 36K asking price. I've heard there are several others around the country.

http://gmc.cardinaleway.com/new_inventory.htm?reset=InventoryListing

Would you believe there are still brand new 2006 Evos sitting on lots? Right alongside 2009 models. That says a lot IMO. It won't be long before you won't be able to find an 08 WRX.

This dealership still has two 06 MRs for 35 and 36K asking price. I've heard there are several others around the country.

http://gmc.cardinaleway.com/new_inventory.htm?reset=InventoryListing



:eek::eek::eek: wow!

Wow, the Cobalt SS is almost what the Evo and STI once were. Cheap looking, psychotically fast (for an economy car) and a bargain track racer. I bet GM could take that one step further and make a Saturn Astra "Redline" AWD and really embarrass Mitsu and Subaru with it and build it for like $26k w/Brembos like the Cobalt SS.

Just to let you know, that with the employee pricing sale GM is doing, that Cobalt is like $21,500. Too bad the interior sucks to a level not seen since the 90s.

I hope Subaru looks at all the bed press and make some meaningful updates to the STI.

The Subaru does not compete with the Cobalt, they are shooting for different markets.
I doubt that the typical STI owner will be cross shopping the Cobalt.
I know I'm not. The Cobalt is an impressive package, but it's not going to hurt STI sales, maybe just pride on the track;)
They are totally different cars. I still wouldn't buy one for $21 grand.
As for building an AWD Astra Turbo.......GM is not smart enough to make it happen.

It's not just my opinion. How has it been selling? Anyone have those sales figures? I can't imagine it has been anywhere close to a success.

The new 5 door body style is breaking sales records, sales have never been so good.

they need to go back to the two door GC8 idea... the STi should be a race inspired car not so hybrid family/want to be track car

Right on!

Also, who the hell buys an STI for the warranty?

dear dwight,

I see an overwhelming number of stock WRXs and STIs in relation to modified. Nasioc is only a small sampling of our Subaru community

So They're trying to say an 08 challenger has almost as much cornering grip and is faster on a road course than an sc elise:rolleyes:. Something seems wacky here. Who do they have driving these cars?

The Sti seems to out perform alot of other cars that are somehow still faster through the different sections.

The new 5 door body style is breaking sales records, sales have never been so good.

Link?

Link?



It's a well known fact, lot's of threads exist on it. Subaru sales in general are up with the new Impreza and Forester.
The new Impreza appeals to a broader market and sales have increased in North America since it's introduction.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1590009&highlight=2008+impreza+record+sales

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/11/01/069373.html

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/October2007/02/c7682.html

http://www.subaru.co.nz/About_Subaru/News/index.php?article=1088

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-7243440/Subaru-Reports-Record-Impreza-November.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/080903/new130.html?.v=10

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS170889+01-May-2008+PRN20080501

I hated every new Impreza since the GC when they first came out........but I still have ended up owning every single model sold in North America.

they need to go back to the two door GC8 idea... the STi should be a race inspired car not so hybrid family/want to be track car


I met an owner of a Subaru dealership the other day, and he told me there is a STI coupe in the works. Possibly for 2010. Anybody know about this?

I met an owner of a Subaru dealership the other day, and he told me there is a STI coupe in the works. Possibly for 2010. Anybody know about this?

Might have been referring to the 2-door coupe that Subaru is collaborating with Toyota on, but it doesn't sound like it will be an STI in the sense of a replacement for the WRC car. It could still get an STI version, but I would think it would be more like the Legacy S402 in terms of performance targets.

Frank

This was kind of a frustrating thread to read; there's a lot of hyperbole of all sorts being thrown in every direction.

I'm a 2008 STI owner as of last week, and wanted to throw a few things out there about my experience. I'm fairly OCD about big purchases like this, so I did do my homework and read a lot of these test comparisons prior to buying one.

To provide some back story, I came from an 04 WRX, and had a roommate that owned an 07 STI. I live in Utah; a state which I think does a terrible job at road maintenance given the harsh winters. I wanted a car that was more comfortable, faster, had more utility, and AWD.

The ride quality on my WRX wasn't bad, but I did want something a little quieter and wanted auto climate control. It was stage 1, and even despite that with 3 people in the car and the AC on in the 100 degree Utah July heat, it was fairly bogged down on the low end. The STI's ride quality was fine for short distances, but man that car could give you quite the beating. He ended up trading it in for a BMW 330i after about a year because of this (he had a long commute to work).

When I was shopping I was considering a few options. I did look at the EVO X, the 335xi, the RDX, the R32, and the A3 (similar to the R32). I was set on AWD; RWD wasn't a consideration for me in this state.

In the end, I had my reasons for the STI. Here were my thoughts on the others:

EVO X: better performance, similar ride quality, nice interior, but utility was non-existent. Have you seen the trunk on those things?

335XI: Sure, BMW's site says MSRP of $42k I think, but I couldn't find one for less than $46k sticker, and the dealers weren't interested in taking more than $500 off the price. Utility wasn't as good, but the ride quality was top notch and the engine was amazing. The interior was excellent.

RDX: good ride quality, excellent interior, excellent utility, good acceleration for the type of car it is. However, I felt it wasn't sporty enough, which is a direct consequence of being an SUV.

R32/A3: (R32) good utility/(A3) excellent utility (4dr vs 2dr), good ride quality, very nice interior, mediocre performance. Those cars are fairly heavy, and that 6 is not producing enough horsepower to compensate. I had concerns about the reliability of the VW/Audi brand as well, having owned a VW that had a lot of electrical problems.

And finally:

STI: excellent utility, good ride quality, excellent performance, good interior. The ride was more comfortable than previous years; better than my WRX. Four doors plus the hatch meant plenty of room. The power to weight ratio made it a pleasure to drive; had an excellent low end.

So, that's the way I felt about those cars. I'm never going to track the thing, but I could see how its short comings could be of a concern to someone who does want to track it and doesn't want to have to start doing suspension work immediately (it would need sways and bushings at the very least).

I know a few posts above me someone shared some links regarding sales. Making the claim that "Subaru is losing customers left and right" is off; everything I've read has said Subaru has seen a substantial lift in Impreza sales with the GR.

Also, I've seen several comparisons to the 135/335. I disagree on the similar price point opinion; in my experience BMW dealers are much less flexible on pricing, and it's rare that I've seen one on a lot that's anything close to the base model and base price. For me, AWD was a must, and if you want to talk about handling comparison, you need to compare the RWD version. The 335XI is NOT the same car as the I handling wise. The I cars have more of a sporty suspension than the XI, sports package aside. I've heard this from multiple dealers and owners who told me "if you're looking for traction and safety, get the XI, if you're looking for sporty, get the I." Having a test drive in an I and an XI made me feel the same way about the two drive trains.

If I lived in a climate where I felt I could get away with RWD, I probably would have leaned towards the 135 despite the lesser utility.

If I was going to track the car, I would have gone with the EVO X.

I know people have already argued about suggested modifications; here's my feeling on it. If you take a car that has a comfortable ride at the expense of sportiness and handling, it's not hard to make it more sporty and most people wouldn't complain if they were going to buy it. If you take a car that is sporty and try to make it more comfortable and the expense of handling, I think you end up looking like you took something away from it. I understand that argument goes directly against what Subaru has done to the STI, but I preferred that change and know I can make it sportier if I wanted to.

Anyway, so ends my rant. For me the car did the best job of filling each of my criteria for the price (BBS package, a few options for $35k). It's still competitive enough that I know it could throw down having some fun on a highway or a red light, and it's livable enough that I don't feel I'd need to buy a second car to complement it.

Man, did C&D join just to pee in our Cheerios? :lol:

If the Cobalt had only beaten the STI then I would be like "Oh Darn!" However...I just can't believe that it would beat the S2K, EVO X, Lotus, 135i and the STI.

Too bad the cobalt is so FUGLY---:rolleyes:

Lap times that actually matter and aren't terrible:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear_Test_Track#Power_Laps

I direct you to #57 and #58. Sorry but, I'll take the stigs driving over CnD.

thanks for the wiki link, i wonder if anyone looked down at #68 and #73 where everyones "way better" previous gen STi sits at. and wow its .2 and .9 seconds slower around a short technical track. now the only people i remember that ran the 08 STi slower than the pervious was the mag EVO from england and it was .2 seconds and it still beat the current evo. now can we all just hug and play nice?

I think I was talking about $58k cars in the same bracket as ones that cost $38k.

But you already knew that.
so whats the excuse for the cheaper cars owning the sti ie ms3 and cobalt?

thanks for the wiki link, i wonder if anyone looked down at #68 and #73 where everyones "way better" previous gen STi sits at. and wow its .2 and .9 seconds slower around a short technical track. now the only people i remember that ran the 08 STi slower than the pervious was the mag EVO from england and it was .2 seconds and it still beat the current evo. now can we all just hug and play nice?considering that they were not US spec STi's that data has no real pull in your market

I just want to know what tires were on the Cobalt.

considering that they were not US spec STi's that data has no real pull in your market

The STI tested on Top Gear has the same kit as the US Spec STI... The biggest difference is that they had 17" rims instead of 18" rims, not sure on tires and such but that would be the only notable difference.

It's a well known fact, lot's of threads exist on it. Subaru sales in general are up with the new Impreza and Forester.
The new Impreza appeals to a broader market and sales have increased in North America since it's introduction.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1590009&highlight=2008+impreza+record+sales

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/11/01/069373.html

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/October2007/02/c7682.html

http://www.subaru.co.nz/About_Subaru/News/index.php?article=1088

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-7243440/Subaru-Reports-Record-Impreza-November.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/080903/new130.html?.v=10

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS170889+01-May-2008+PRN20080501

I hated every new Impreza since the GC when they first came out........but I still have ended up owning every single model sold in North America.

Great links showing Impreza sales are up. Unfortunately that was not what we were discussing. I want to know how STI sales are doing. Granted, economic factors probably are hurting STI sales as well as EVO X sales, but a year over year trend analysis of both would allow you to somewhat account for economic factors and make a fairly confident conclusion as to how model year changes and product popularity have affected sales. My guess is STI sales have trended downwards, even if that trend is adjusted for the crappy economic conditions we currently are facing.

It's not just my opinion. How has it been selling? Anyone have those sales figures? I can't imagine it has been anywhere close to a success.


You were alluding to the fact that the new body style was ugly, I was pointing out that the general market seems to disagree with you.
The economy is down and the new Impreza is outselling past models.

Great links showing Impreza sales are up. Unfortunately that was not what we were discussing. I want to know how STI sales are doing. Granted, economic factors probably are hurting STI sales as well as EVO X sales, but a year over year trend analysis of both would allow you to somewhat account for economic factors and make a fairly confident conclusion as to how model year changes and product popularity have affected sales. My guess is STI sales have trended downwards, even if that trend is adjusted for the crappy economic conditions we currently are facing.

There were also a few remarks that Subaru was losing customers left and right as a direct consequence of the GR series, and I'm not sure they were directed solely at the STI. I'm not sure how STI sales are with the new model, but I know overall more people are buying the model than before, regardless of trim. If I see anything on IWSTI I'll reply to this post with it because I'm curious too.

The other fact pointed out earlier too was someone quoting C&D saying that they equipped the best wheel/tire packages on each vehicle, while the STI appears to have the stockers that add a total of 22lbs of unsprung weight. I don't know what the quantitative effect is that it would have on a lap time, but it couldn't be helping it.

The cobalt beat out the Evo as well---wtf!!!!!!!!!!! STI barely beat the Dodge Caliber---:(

http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/799/578349.JPG

OMG the sky is falling:rolleyes:

Whaaa whaaa flippin whaaa. all I hear is whaa whaa fat heavy slow rolls too much whaa whaa. I had an 05 and I now have an 08 I modded the crap out of the 05 cause it was too soft, rolled to much whaaa flippin whaa whaa. You guys arent being honest with yourselves.

Your gonna mod the ***** outta your cars regardless, your never going to be happen, your always gonna b*tch about the d*mn handling or slow 1/4 mile times.

Its called being a gear head isn't it great?

Now go whaaa flippin whaa whaa some more to justify spending money on mods.


The C&D review of all these cars is ridiculous btw...

considering that they were not US spec STi's that data has no real pull in your market

if you read my whole post i was pointing out how the 08 STi beat out the previous gen since everyone is complaining how much worse it is than what it is replacing and i just wanted people to look for them selves and see someone independent got results saying the new model is better. and also if your so smart tell me whats the diff in the 2? because the only thing i see if smaller rims and sitting on the right hand side, same drivetrain and weight.

C&D reviews are like "this car is obviously sub-par, it only had SIX cup holders!"

The 02 WRX must have been a failure with it's 1 and 1/2 cup holders :)

C&D reviews are like "this car is obviously sub-par, it only had SIX cup holders!"

Grain of Salt

I don't mod my STI.

I want it to be a fantastic performer like it used to be from the factory. Right now it is far from it.

It's getting beat by a Cobalt SS, and it only very nearly beat a Dodge frigging Caliber.

This test should be a massive wake up call for Subaru to fix the damn car. The STI is an embarrassment. Those hideous taillights, marshmallow suspension, and horribly ugly ineffective seats make the car the joke of the industry.

08 STI + New taillights + 100 pounds less + 50 more HP + Proper suspension + Recaros + $32,000 price with the 18" BBS's = Next year's media darling

I would much rather see a more basic STi. Less luxury items, electronics, weight, and a lower price. But my opinion seems to be in the minority.

I don't mod my STI.

I want it to be a fantastic performer like it used to be from the factory. Right now it is far from it.

It's getting beat by a Cobalt SS, and it only very nearly beat a Dodge frigging Caliber.

This test should be a massive wake up call for Subaru to fix the damn car. The STI is an embarrassment. Those hideous taillights, marshmallow suspension, and horribly ugly ineffective seats make the car the joke of the industry.

08 STI + New taillights + 100 pounds less + 50 more HP + Proper suspension + Recaros + $32,000 price with the 18" BBS's = Next year's media darling


Have you driven the car? It drives better than your 2005 model, trust me I know :)

I would much rather see a more basic STi. Less luxury items, electronics, weight, and a lower price. But my opinion seems to be in the minority.

Have room for one more in there? If Subaru brought a proper Spec-C here, I'd be seriously tempted to sell the Evo and get back into the Subaru camp.

Have you driven the car? It drives better than your 2005 model, trust me I know :)

It's only very slightly faster, and with much more body roll. Try taking the car for a spirited drive to try to impress your friends, then when they ask "why does this supposed awesome performance car tilt like a minivan in the turns", you can answer them with "it drives better".

Anyone remember when M3's were getting beat by STI's in the 90's? Ahhh the glory days. Now an M3 will hand an STI it's ass on a silver platter.

Have you driven the car? It drives better than your 2005 model, trust me I know :)

While that may be true, its relevance is questionable as the competition has raised to the challenge--as someone else posted, it was nearly beaten by a CALIBER for chrissake!! People want the car to be the giant slayer it once was, not comparatively milktoast and slightly better than the previous gen... .

This test is just another one of many clearly showing how badly Subaru messed up the 08-09 STI.

Way too soft suspension leading to way too much body roll. Even my 05 STI has way too much body roll, but now in the 08-09 its much much worse.

Badly underpowered at just 305hp. Should be at the very least 350hp for the price they are asking. Seriously, if I can get a 300hp BMW 335 or 135 for the same price as a 300hp Subaru, something is way off.

No AYC. Thus understeer.

Slower steering ratio in America's STI than rest of world.

No twin scroll turbo in America's STI.

Ugly, cheap, crappy seats that ruin the interior of the car while the rest of the world gets beautiful and supportive Recaros. Recaros that not only are far more comfortable but make the interior look a lot better.

Way too heavy. The STI needs to drop at least another 100 pounds. Just give me 100 pounds less Subaru, you will be amazed what happens to those track times.

No DSG, but that's forgiveable as many people still want 6 speed manual.

And worst of all, WAY TOO EXPENSIVE. Like I said before, if G37's and 335's are the same price, with the same performance, something is seriously wrong. Who the hell would buy an STI over a 335 for the same price? The STI needs to be no more than 32,000. Anything more than that and it's no longer a good value. No one wants a 40,000 Subaru when you can get BMW's, Audi's, and Benz's at that price range!!

Hopefully comparos like this will give Subaru a kick in the pants to get the STI back to it's M3 beating glory days. Please Subaru, please get our beloved STI back to it's iconic heights, you are losing customers left and right. Oh, and fix those ugly ugly 90's style taillights! My God are those things ugly.

A front wheel drive Cobalt SS priced 10,000 less than an STI spanked it around a track! That is shocking, sad, and sickening. Subaru better have a monster in store for 2010 or the STI will die in America.


Quoted for Truth, kids.

Well said, QFT

Everytime I see an '08 STI I am saddened by the guy behind the wheel who bought it (or probably their parents who bought it, or they bought it but live at home with their parents, lol)

It's only very slightly faster, and with much more body roll. Try taking the car for a spirited drive to try to impress your friends, then when they ask "why does this supposed awesome performance car tilt like a minivan in the turns", you can answer them with "it drives better".

Anyone remember when M3's were getting beat by STI's in the 90's? Ahhh the glory days. Now an M3 will hand an STI it's ass on a silver platter.

We would all LOVE to see the STI put down 350-400 hp stock from the factory to fight with the M3's of today, but without a major price hike thats not going to happen.

No matter what the STI looked like people would still gripe about it being too much. When a base model STI could be had for maybe 1500 more than the outgoing model. Despite looks being subjective Subaru did succeed in improving the platform for the 08 from the 06/07. Now did it keep up with the competition? Well, in Japan vs the EVOx, definately. The rest of the world?

Its a shame Subaru wasn't able to send spys into the competitions plans so they could have improved the model... Oh well...

I think it is still in line with the EVOx with the Evo slightly pulling away but what other cars is it really competing against? And no, you can't say BMW, Nissan etc... Completely different price bracket, although we would like to think that the new STI is so close in price now, it really isn't...

Again have you driven the car? Having driven an 05 to about 8/10's on a track compared to the 08, the 08 does not have THAT much more body roll, from the outside it is more apparent. The car reaches a point and just GRIPS so much more than the 05 chassis. To say it is lightyears ahead? Definately not, they are still close cars but overall I would have to say the 08 is an approvement.

What areas would make this car an instant "killer", two words SWAY BARS. A big 25mm front bar and 22mm rear completely changes the dynamic of the car. Which is why for 09 I am suprised they have not increased the sway bar size. Again, if you are driving this car with the base model rims (which I have at the moment) you are really losing out on some performance... these wheels weight a ton! Luckily its easy to shed at least 10lb per corner with new rims, or go with the BBS option.

Some of these tests have been with the base model wheels, definately will take a hit to the cars performance.

I don't understand why all the GR hate. Coming form an 03 and having driven each incarnation of STI in the states, I think they have come a long ways and I have loved each car, each step of the way.

Again, idiots in this thread... Show me a 40k dollar STI? No one in their right mind would have paid that for the 08 STI or any STI for that matter. Even the fully loaded could be had for 37k OTD max! Other brands are a lot more difficult to haggle price, BMW is a great example :)

Ok, idiots was harsh... misinformed?

I would much rather see a more basic STi. Less luxury items, electronics, weight, and a lower price. But my opinion seems to be in the minority.

I think it's a sizable enough minority to offer a lower production track version. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from most reactions I've seen here it seems people think the current car is not too far off from being a real performer... it's just a little too soft and a little too slow. I would think they could easily rip out about $2,000 worth of options (heck, the xenons would get you half way there) and dump the savings into suspension bits, a better tune and better wheels / tires.

Plus, dominating all the magazine comparos, especially against the hated Evo, has to be worth something in free publicity...

Then again, supporting 4 Impreza peformance models may be a hard pill to swallow.

Magazine reviews are fodder for discussions/rants like in this thread and that's about it.

I got an 08 STI specifically because it is softer. I would never have owned a previous version since this is my daily driver and I would prefer to make it to work each day without my spine being numb. The hatch also makes it much more liveable. If you don't like the new looks, that's your opinion. I didn't like the looks from mag pics either. I liked it much more in person. Go see one in person if you haven't. The interior is much nicer than previous versions as well even if you don't like the seats (which work fine for me).

I race a 240SX in SCCA. It's got a custom coilover setup with ohlin's shocks and a full spherical bearing suspension. I guarantee you it will handle better than most cars. Of course, it doesn't have an interior, has a full roll cage, a fuel-cell, etc, which doesn't make it a very practical car that most people would want. It also wouldn't be very driveable on anything other than a track.

Softening up the STI is going to make it appeal to more people. If you want to make it a track car go out and get the bits to stiffen it back up. Which do you think makes more sense: Making a car a little softer and then people who want to put in on the track can add the performance pieces or making it stiffer and then expecting people who want it as a daily driver to soften it up?

Most cars need pieces added to them to perform on the track. What Subaru could do is create a factory package that stiffens the car back up for those who think they need a stiffer car. I personally wouldn't want it, but it would be an option for those that do.

The sky is not falling.

David

This test should be a massive wake up call for Subaru to fix the damn car. The STI is an embarrassment. Those hideous taillights, marshmallow suspension, and horribly ugly ineffective seats make the car the joke of the industry.

08 STI + New taillights + 100 pounds less + 50 more HP + Proper suspension + Recaros + $32,000 price with the 18" BBS's = Next year's media darling

Please go away.

Again, idiots in this thread... Show me a 40k dollar STI? No one in their right mind would have paid that for the 08 STI or any STI for that matter. Even the fully loaded could be had for 37k OTD max! Other brands are a lot more difficult to haggle price, BMW is a great example :)

Ok, idiots was harsh... misinformed?

No, not really.....I think that word is pretty accurate.

When I bought my car, I wanted a high performance car with 4 doors. Not a comfortable, user friendly hatchback. The 08' STI, while improved in many areas, moved substantially away from what I was looking for. The price increased, the performance, relative to its competitors, decreased. They even went to a body style I dislike. I looked at a Mazda Speed 3, and aside from the fact that I didn't want FWD, I hated the way it looked.

I think Subaru changed the focus of what an STI is, and in the process lost some of the "king of the hill" reputation that the STI was. It's gone from being the all around fastest bang for the buck you could find to being a car that's not as fast as it's traditional competition, the EVO. At the same time, it's trying to cultivate a more refined image, to compete against cars like the BMW 335, and coming off rather poorly there, as well. It went from being a car that was great at everything performance wise, to being a car that excels at nothing, with the exception on having good cargo room for a small car. Godzilla turned into a Corolla. Except the real Corolla costs less and gets better gas mileage...

You can dog on Car and Driver if you'd like, but numbers don't lie. The STI fared poorly against it's competition. It fared poorly against cars that are supposedly below its level (yes, that Cobalt SS again by 5 seconds.) One bad shift and that Caliber is only 1.8 seconds behind.

I understand the tall cool glass of Haterade being served up by the 08' owners here, I feel your pain. You paid more and got comparitively less. That stinks. Having most a forum constantly bash on a car you love has got to really aggravate you. If that's the car you wanted, good purchase. Personally, if I were looking for a softer, more comfortable car I would have just bought a Legacy GT. If I were looking for an 08' model 5 passenger performance car in this price range (35k-40K) I would have test driven the Evo, and not looked at the Subaru models at all.

Again, idiots in this thread... Show me a 40k dollar STI? No one in their right mind would have paid that for the 08 STI or any STI for that matter. Even the fully loaded could be had for 37k OTD max! Other brands are a lot more difficult to haggle price, BMW is a great example :)

Ok, idiots was harsh... misinformed?
Maybe you were misinformed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/fredsmithh/STIpricing.jpg

With the wheels it should come with, navi thrown in, the nice looking grill, and a complete security system, so no one can easily steal your overpriced $40,000+ car. Feel free to swap the sport grill for Sirius ($398 option) or the armrest (a nice option I got with my 07') for a titanium shift knob if you prefer (It's rather nice, but pricey at $170) and you can still keep it over the $40K mark. A "fully loaded" STI costs more than 40K, maybe you can haggle it lower, maybe not.


I do agree with you, no one in their right mind would pay this much for this car.

I paid 35k out the door, BBS option, Wheel locks, extra rubber mats, no nav, (I don't want another woman telling me where to go i have enough at home thank you) Not PC? IGAF.

I believe most of the negative opinions on this silly thread is based on no first hand or at least minimum experience with the car.

So lets put our internet brass ones on for a minute, wait a minute, i got mine on, okay here goes, whoever lives in Norcal with a non 08 STi, that is relatively stock and no racing specific tires or slicks, tell me where you want to meet for an Autocross event. I'll let you drive this car, let me drive your older one, and we can then both see how the cars fare both our individual times in each seat, and how we drive compared to each other.


Gripin about roll is one thing, understanding your vehicle dynamics and driving it well is another.

This thread is like surfing here in Norcal, lots of wannabees in the water with pretty surfboards when its 3 foot and sunny out and the Whitesharks are in the Farallons, but come december/january when its 20 plus set waves and 48 degree water and our toothy friends are back in town where did all you point break heroes go?

Invite the car and driver folks out while your at it.

Driver not the car, flame on...

I got an 08 STI specifically because it is softer. I would never have owned a previous version since this is my daily driver and I would prefer to make it to work each day without my spine being numb. The hatch also makes it much more liveable. If you don't like the new looks, that's your opinion. I didn't like the looks from mag pics either. I liked it much more in person. Go see one in person if you haven't. The interior is much nicer than previous versions as well even if you don't like the seats (which work fine for me).



You would've saved a buttload of $$ and had the same DD experience if you had just bought the '09 WRX.

If I was going to spend ~$35K on an AWD, 300+hp car that can't deliver more than 25mpg on the highway, I'd head straight for the G37 store -- real paint quality, real interior quality, doesn't need a reflash to keep from self-destructing and will show its tails to the STI on the street/track.

I got an 08 STI specifically because it is softer. I would never have owned a previous version since this is my daily driver and I would prefer to make it to work each day without my spine being numb. The interior is much nicer than previous versions as well even if you don't like the seats (which work fine for me).

Softening up the STI is going to make it appeal to more people. Making a car a little softer and then people who want to put in on the track can add the performance pieces or making it stiffer and then expecting people who want it as a daily driver to soften it up?

Same thing here... In 2004, I ended up buying a 2004 S4 because for *me*, only the gold BBS were available wich I didn't liked. Also, there were pink logos everywhere, a huge rear wing, blue seats only with pink dots and the interior IMO was getting very hard seats, the ride was a hard one and it was not suitable for *me*. The 2008 is more of a sleeper, Xenon headlights wich IMO is way better than conventional lights, the seats are softer, automatic climate control... As many said in this thread, it's been analysed for sure by Subaru and I guess they've made those changes because they knew they would get more people in the STi that way with the trade-off of letting go a few ones that liked more the old design... It's really a personnal choice,

Sylvain

You would've saved a buttload of $$ and had the same DD experience if you had just bought the '09 WRX.

If I was going to spend ~$35K on an AWD, 300+hp car that can't deliver more than 25mpg on the highway, I'd head straight for the G37 store -- real paint quality, real interior quality, doesn't need a reflash to keep from self-destructing and will show its tails to the STI on the street/track.

The WRX performance afaik is not the same as the STi... Also, comparing a G37 to the STi is like comparing the G37 to the last generation Audi S5... The more you pay, the more you will get usually for your money...

Maybe you were misinformed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/fredsmithh/STIpricing.jpg

With the wheels it should come with, navi thrown in, the nice looking grill, and a complete security system, so no one can easily steal your overpriced $40,000+ car. Feel free to swap the sport grill for Sirius ($398 option) or the armrest (a nice option I got with my 07') for a titanium shift knob if you prefer (It's rather nice, but pricey at $170) and you can still keep it over the $40K mark. A "fully loaded" STI costs more than 40K, maybe you can haggle it lower, maybe not.


I do agree with you, no one in their right mind would pay this much for this car.


HAHA SUre if you want to pay MSRP... if your a moron. I got the base model for 34k OTD when the MSRP on that is 34995... Who pays more than Invoice for their cars? This was back in March btw... Maybe you can haggle? I think the answer is you can EASILY haggle. Now more than ever and even back in march.

What a terrible mistake this "new" version is.

They should have just improved the Hawkeye...........

Maybe you were misinformed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/fredsmithh/STIpricing.jpg

With the wheels it should come with, navi thrown in, the nice looking grill, and a complete security system, so no one can easily steal your overpriced $40,000+ car. Feel free to swap the sport grill for Sirius ($398 option) or the armrest (a nice option I got with my 07') for a titanium shift knob if you prefer (It's rather nice, but pricey at $170) and you can still keep it over the $40K mark. A "fully loaded" STI costs more than 40K, maybe you can haggle it lower, maybe not.


I do agree with you, no one in their right mind would pay this much for this car.


a) Nobody pays MSRP for their STI. Most people on IWSTI paid $500 under invoice for their 08's.
b) What does adding a bunch of options prove? Have you been to a BMW dealership lately? They charge and extra $550 for any color but white or black! Real world it's entirely possible to walk out the door with a $33K STI. There is no way you can get the BMW's everyone's saying you should get instead for anything approaching that.

Eitherway, I think the argument is silly. You can option out almost any car to the point it's no longer a rational purchase. Would you pay $56,000 for a 3 series without an M badge? You easily could without even resotrting to things like shiftknobs or sport grills. Doesn't diminish the car though. Same with the STI.

Well said, QFT

Everytime I see an '08 STI I am saddened by the guy behind the wheel who bought it (or probably their parents who bought it, or they bought it but live at home with their parents, lol)

Thank you for your well reasoned and meaningful contribution to the debate.

Glenn,

Lies:

1. The car is slower than previous models. Untrue- "this is the fastest STI we have tested" -edmunds It is faster around a track, through the slalom and goes from 60-0 braking in a shorter distance than the old model. It is not the greatest car on earth. I never said that.

2. The car is ugly. -Thats a subjective half truth, the previous generations win NO beauty awards. It will "grow" on everyone, and the next model will be "OMG its sooooooo ugly".

3. The car will not be competitive in WRC events. Not true, everyone at Prodrive, Petter Solberg, etc all say that this car has MUCH more potential than the previous outdated generation. Its up to them to make it a winner. I'm sure it has its fair share of issues, including the rear end setup, but the car is a step in the right direction for competing with Focus, and the C4. The car is not any more nose heavy than the previous generation. :rolleyes: The new car has much less overhang for negotiating narrow rally stages, IE Rally Japan, etc. They have also said the car is much more stable on stages and has been VERY reliable with no mechanical retirements thus far. Atkinson retired from the last rally, but it was his own driving that did that. I can go back and count the mechanical retirements with the previous generation, but a lot of you will be butt-hurt over it.

I'm not coming on here to say the 2008 STI is the best. It's not by any stretch. But it is absolutely comparable to the previous generations. It sill has the slow steering rack. It still understeers. It has a little more body roll. So buy a few aftermarket goodies, AND FIX IT. Big deal.

EVO magazine did a comparison between the new EVO X and STI, and guess who won? The STI. They also had a EDM model with the SAME 2.5 engine and 17" wheels. I trust their judgment a lot more than C&D. They have good drivers, and their reviews are almost always spot on. EVO magazine stated that you really had to push the car, and once you got past a point, the car really responded. I'm not sure C&D ever got to that point? Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. It's like someone said earlier, The Stig from Top Gear beat a EVO X around the track, gizmos and all. C&D was 6 seconds slower. Interesting.

I've owned 3 STI's. This is by far my favorite. Its easy to live with, more mature and is every bit as fast. The stock tune does suck, but it is something we have to live with to get it into the USA with our strict emission laws and to get a higher MPG rating on the window sticker. An accessport or equivalent fixes all of that. The seats are much more comfortable, the interior is more classy and has better interior materials. Recaros would be great, but for an everyday car, the seats are fine. Those of you that think the STI should just be a track car need to wake up. That is not going to happen, EVER.

IT'S A HATCH/WAGON. GET OVER IT.

IT HAS CLEAR TAILLIGHTS OHHHHH NO. WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO!!! OH NO! THEY HAVE RUINED THE WORLD! SUBARU HAS LOST ITS WAY! TOYOTA HERE WE COME! OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOO. :unamused:

What Subaru did to the Sti is nothing compared to what Chris Bangle (BMW Chef designer?) did to the BMW 5 series!

Personally I think the STi looks fine. The only thing I don't like about it is the front bumper... Too plain.

BMW owners buy cars that are good looking. Does anyone remember the 2004-ish Civic Si "egg" that was scrapped in a year after it sold horribly? Nobody has a taste for this look in the US. Bumping the WRX to 265 horse was the best move Subaru has made in a while, since this car needs to sell by performance / function.

The 2004-ish civic "bubble":rolleyes: ran for 4 years. I know, I owned one. It got stollen of course. Pretty funny how they hard to find, and easy to make go fast, and handle well for prices 10's of thousands less that new or previous generation WRX's and STi's. Open a grass roots and watch them win... Im not saying that they are the best car but im not saying that they are the worst either. I think Subaru needs to realize an STi badge doesnt mean that they are going to sell cars. The car needs to be smaller, less options, less traction control thingy's, and lighter to even compete.

a) Nobody pays MSRP for their STI. Most people on IWSTI paid $500 under invoice for their 08's.
b) What does adding a bunch of options prove? Have you been to a BMW dealership lately? They charge and extra $550 for any color but white or black! Real world it's entirely possible to walk out the door with a $33K STI. There is no way you can get the BMW's everyone's saying you should get instead for anything approaching that.

Eitherway, I think the argument is silly. You can option out almost any car to the point it's no longer a rational purchase. Would you pay $56,000 for a 3 series without an M badge? You easily could without even resotrting to things like shiftknobs or sport grills. Doesn't diminish the car though. Same with the STI.

Hell, you could even option out a Mini Cooper S into the mid 40's!

Once I get my financial feet back on the ground I will picking up an STI. And when it comes to performance...There is nothing a good tuner can't fix.

I had a bad accident in my 08 OBS...$11,000 in damages but the car saved my friends life for sure. That being said I could care less what some magazine says about 0-60 times or fast laps.

Please go away.

Somebody is sour about their overpriced car. ;) Calling people idiots because they demand that Subaru not rip them off makes you look like the idiot my friend. You are happy paying 35-40k for a car that gets beat by a 23k front wheel drive Chevy? I sure as hell would not be!

Remember, I am trying to fight for people like you too. Just imagine what your 08 could have and should have been.

The STI name has a lot to live up to, and it sure as hell is not living up to it right now.

Somebody is sour about their overpriced car. ;) Calling people idiots because they demand that Subaru not rip them off makes you look like the idiot my friend.

Remember, I am trying to fight for people like you too. Just imagine what your 08 could have and should have been. You are happy paying 35-40k for a car that gets beat by a 23k front wheel drive Chevy? I sure as hell would not be!

The STI name has a lot to live up to, and it sure as hell is not living up to it right now.

On this one, I don't really agree with you. The new GT-r is faster than almost every car twice and three times her price. Does that mean that if I have a 911 Carrera 4s, i've been ripped of by paying 115,000$CDN + nav + paint option + premium sound system instead of the 81,900$CDN GT-r (well, 89,900$ in 2009, price increase of ~8000$)... I think that even if the Cobalt is 23,000$ or whatever, you have a lot more things in the STi... Just like the 2004 S4 I had... I paid 72k CDN$ while the STi was about 46k CDN$ in 2004... I now have a STi and I never felt ripped off when I purchased my S4 and I must say wooow, two different world... (Just my 2 cents though)...

On this one, I don't really agree with you. The new GT-r is faster than almost every car twice and three times her price. Does that mean that if I have a 911 Carrera 4s, i've been ripped of by paying 115,000$CDN + nav + paint option + premium sound system instead of the 81,900$CDN GT-r (well, 89,900$ in 2009, price increase of ~8000$)... I think that even if the Cobalt is 23,000$ or whatever, you have a lot more things in the STi... Just like the 2004 S4 I had... I paid 72k CDN$ while the STi was about 46k CDN$ in 2004... I now have a STi and I never felt ripped off when I purchased my S4 and I must say wooow, two different world... (Just my 2 cents though)...

Yea but you can bet your bottom dollar Porsche engineers are working 24 hours a day 7 days a week to beat the Nissan GTR as I am sure many Porsche owners are furious.

I assure you Porsche will answer back.

And at least the GTR is a monster car with fantastic engineering, a car you would be somewhat proud to have your car compete with. Where as a frigging Cobalt SS is nothing but a front wheel drive Chevy with nothing special about it to note. It's embarrassing for the STI to be even considered with this car, let alone beat by it!

There is just no excuse for the STI's performance. Subaru should not call the car STI in its current form!

Worse yet, it looks like Subaru does not care to answer back their competition. It's sad for fans of Subaru, such as myself, to see the STI going from being a monster in the 90's to an overpriced pseudo performance car with average at best performance nowadays.

BMW owners buy cars that are good looking. Does anyone remember the 2004-ish Civic Si "egg" that was scrapped in a year after it sold horribly? Nobody has a taste for this look in the US. Bumping the WRX to 265 horse was the best move Subaru has made in a while, since this car needs to sell by performance / function.

Yes, the looks of a BMW are important. However, there are PLENTY of cars that look awesome, yet can't touch a BMW in terms of handling and "feel."

BMW buyers are as concerned with performance as they are looks. The ones who are not also opt for pretty 20" rims on their new 5 series, ruining the handling forever.

SOTC

Yea but you can bet your bottom dollar Porsche engineers are working 24 hours a day 7 days a week to beat the Nissan GTR as I am sure many Porsche owners are furious.

Most Porsche owners could care less. They buy for the brand and image, something that Nissan can't touch.


And at least the GTR is a monster car with fantastic engineering, a car you would be somewhat proud to have your car compete with. Where as a frigging Cobalt SS is nothing but a front wheel drive Chevy with nothing special about it to note. It's embarrassing for the STI to be even considered with this car, let alone beat by it!

The GTR costs $70,000. It is in a different league than a 35K STI!!!!! One suspect test from C&D and you are here *once again* to tell everyone how crappy the new STI is.

There is just no excuse for the STI's performance. Subaru should not call the car STI in its current form!

Can't disagree more. The car is faster than the previous generation in the slalom and brakes better.

Worse yet, it looks like Subaru does not care to answer back their competition.

The competition is the EVO. They are so close in performance its a tossup. Some publications prefer the Subaru, others the EVO. It is faster in a straight line than the EVO and is lighter. The EVO tends to be faster around a track and has better steering.

It's sad for fans of Subaru, such as myself, to see the STI going from being a monster in the 90's to an overpriced pseudo performance car with average at best performance nowadays.

You really are dense, aren't you? When was the Impreza STI a "monster" in the 1990's? The first USDM STI was in 2004! Right, I always feel my performance is "average at best" when driving around town. It is so hard to pass Camry's and Accords on the highway with the new STI.:rolleyes:

Congratulations for taking the honor as the first person on my ignore list.

a) Nobody pays MSRP for their STI. Most people on IWSTI paid $500 under invoice for their 08's.
b) What does adding a bunch of options prove? Have you been to a BMW dealership lately? They charge and extra $550 for any color but white or black! Real world it's entirely possible to walk out the door with a $33K STI. There is no way you can get the BMW's everyone's saying you should get instead for anything approaching that.

Eitherway, I think the argument is silly. You can option out almost any car to the point it's no longer a rational purchase. Would you pay $56,000 for a 3 series without an M badge? You easily could without even resotrting to things like shiftknobs or sport grills. Doesn't diminish the car though. Same with the STI.

I picked reasonable options, not absurd ones like STI tire stem caps and keychains. I picked the options I would like, and I think the car, optioned out like it is, could be considered "fully loaded." Even if you negotiate $1000.00 off the price, after taxes, it would be well over $40K out the door. That's why people refer to it as a $40,000 car. If you get no options, and buy a barebones one, then you will spend less. See the quoted post below, which isn't barebones, either. The issue was whether a "fully loaded" one cost more than $40k, and the answer is yes.

FWIW, the 135I starts at $35,600, not that far above the STI's sticker price. Red is available at no additional charge, and a nicely equipped one goes for $38525, including destination charges. The only thing you give up is back seat space (puts it out of the running for me.) You get a nicer looking car that goes faster...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/fredsmithh/135i.jpg


I paid 35k out the door, BBS option, Wheel locks, extra rubber mats, no nav, (I don't want another woman telling me where to go i have enough at home thank you) Not PC? IGAF.

I believe most of the negative opinions on this silly thread is based on no first hand or at least minimum experience with the car.

So lets put our internet brass ones on for a minute, wait a minute, i got mine on, okay here goes, whoever lives in Norcal with a non 08 STi, that is relatively stock and no racing specific tires or slicks, tell me where you want to meet for an Autocross event. I'll let you drive this car, let me drive your older one, and we can then both see how the cars fare both our individual times in each seat, and how we drive compared to each other.


Gripin about roll is one thing, understanding your vehicle dynamics and driving it well is another.

This thread is like surfing here in Norcal, lots of wannabees in the water with pretty surfboards when its 3 foot and sunny out and the Whitesharks are in the Farallons, but come december/january when its 20 plus set waves and 48 degree water and our toothy friends are back in town where did all you point break heroes go?

Invite the car and driver folks out while your at it.

Driver not the car, flame on...

OK, my brass ones are on, but I'm not in Cali, and mine isn't stock, so I'm out of the running. Here's the thing, though: The 08' STI isn't competing against 04-07 STi and STIs, it competes against cars like the 2008 Cobalt SS, the 2008 BMW 135, and especially the Evo X. And, it is losing ground. The 06 STi and the Evo IX were a close competition, usually a toss up. An 04 Sti would stomp an SRT-4, but now? The 2008 STI loses time and time again, it is faster and more capable than an earlier STI, but the competition has improved more.

Let's compare and contrast that course layout with VIR... :lol:


Now you are stating baseless info. First you asked for someone to prove the numbers are skewed. Now you are trying to compare tracks. What difference does it make what the track is. Point blank it beat the evo X, my 04 and my 05 could not have beat an evo 9 or 8 respectively. If you don't like the car fine. Now you are just trolling. Its an OGAR.

What is so hard for you people to grasp? Put a ****ty driver in a fast car with crappier tires than the rest and it's the cars fault?

Yea but you can bet your bottom dollar Porsche engineers are working 24 hours a day 7 days a week to beat the Nissan GTR as I am sure many Porsche owners are furious.

I assure you Porsche will answer back.

And at least the GTR is a monster car with fantastic engineering, a car you would be somewhat proud to have your car compete with. Where as a frigging Cobalt SS is nothing but a front wheel drive Chevy with nothing special about it to note. It's embarrassing for the STI to be even considered with this car, let alone beat by it!

There is just no excuse for the STI's performance. Subaru should not call the car STI in its current form!

Worse yet, it looks like Subaru does not care to answer back their competition. It's sad for fans of Subaru, such as myself, to see the STI going from being a monster in the 90's to an overpriced pseudo performance car with average at best performance nowadays.

Why do you have to put down the cobalt, that car happens to do well around the ring, and you don't know how hard engineers might or might not have worked on that car. Its a good car for the price apparently.

Somebody is sour about their overpriced car. ;) Calling people idiots because they demand that Subaru not rip them off makes you look like the idiot my friend. You are happy paying 35-40k for a car that gets beat by a 23k front wheel drive Chevy? I sure as hell would not be!

Remember, I am trying to fight for people like you too. Just imagine what your 08 could have and should have been.

The STI name has a lot to live up to, and it sure as hell is not living up to it right now.


You really are an idiot from another planet with no comprehension of the automotive world and market. My 09 does everything and more than your 05.
I've had more WRX's/STI's in the past 7 years than most people have cars in 15 years. You are delusional and easily swayed by a single article.

Props to GM for making a great, inexpensive well performing front driver. Good for them. The two cars do not compete in the same market or segment.
Some of us loyal WRX guys are now in our mid thirties and want something we can pick up clients and family in without looking like teenage boy racers.
I like the more civilized grownup feel of the new STI, which is why I have one.
Like I said before, most STI owners will not be cross shopping Cobalts.
The 08/09's work better than any other STI sold in North America. Stop trying to convince the people here that know better that they are crap.

Hey Bored2Fast, and mapleleaf, if you don't have anything semi-intelligent to say other than "you are an idiot", please keep it to yourself.

aaronmsadler, I wish that was the problem. But every test, in every mag, and on every show? Very noticeable understeer, and way too much body roll. Every review says the same thing. Just think if Subaru just fixes the damn thing. All the great reviews will sell the car more than any "Fraternity of STI" garbage. I don't see any new STI's on the road, all I see are 06-07's and a few 04's and 05's.

WRXLEP, the STI cars date back to the mid-late 90's in countries outside of the US. The STI's back then were able to equal or beat the M3 of it's time. An M3 that was more expensive than the STI. Look it up. Sorry that you thought the STI's began in 2004.

Why do you have to put down the cobalt, that car happens to do well around the ring, and you don't know how hard engineers might or might not have worked on that car. Its a good car for the price apparently.

You are right I should not put it down. The Cobalt deserves the credit for sure.

My problem is the STI should be the Cobalt SS of these tests, as fast as cars twice its price. What happened to front wheel drive car being the total opposite of fast track car? Now a Chevy front wheel drive rental with a turbo and tight springs is beating STI's!? Ouch.

I am not saying the STI is a crap car, not at all. It just needs to be cheaper, much faster, and with proper seats. All things very easily fixed from the factory. And NO, I dont want to mod the car to fix it. I want my warranty, and I want side airbags in my seats thank you.

You are right I should not put it down. The Cobalt deserves the credit for sure.

My problem is the STI should be the Cobalt SS of these tests, as fast as cars twice its price. What happened to front wheel drive car being the total opposite of fast track car? Now a Chevy front wheel drive rental with a turbo and tight springs is beating STI's!? Ouch.

I am not saying the STI is a crap car, not at all. It just needs to be cheaper, much faster, and with proper seats. All things very easily fixed from the factory. And NO, I dont want to mod the car to fix it. I want my warranty, and I want side airbags in my seats thank you.


Why can't people LIKE you understand that you can't get those trade offs without paying a LOT MORE for the car? You can't make the car faster, with proper seats, and lighter and stiffer etc (just going with all the comments I read not just yours) and make it cheaper at the same time. It doesn't work that way.

Subaru has admitted that the new Impreza/WRX/STI was built to appeal to a broader market, more specifically the "affluent man-child". What does the broader market want? A softer car with more luxuries.

In fact, Subaru advertised that the trunk could fit 2 full-sized golf bags. What? Excuse me? You would NEVER see a Subaru ad from the previous STI's advertising that it can fit golf clubs in the trunk! This goes to show that the car is softer. For a daily driver maybe that's not a bad thing. But I think Subaru could've made the base Impreza and WRX softer with more ameneties, but kept the STI as a hardcore 'racer' that could smash its competition (especially lower-priced FWD cars).

Why can't people LIKE you understand that you can't get those trade offs without paying a LOT MORE for the car? You can't make the car faster, with proper seats, and lighter and stiffer etc (just going with all the comments I read not just yours) and make it cheaper at the same time. It doesn't work that way.

Of course you can. Just look at the Cobalt SS. Its 23k and beats cars twice it's price, including the STI. If GM can do it, Subaru surely can and has done before.

^^^^^^ right on.:devil:

The WRX performance afaik is not the same as the STi... Also, comparing a G37 to the STi is like comparing the G37 to the last generation Audi S5... The more you pay, the more you will get usually for your money...

Sorry, but the logic of your post eludes me...

I paid 35k out the door, BBS option, Wheel locks, extra rubber mats, no nav, (I don't want another woman telling me where to go i have enough at home thank you) Not PC? IGAF.

I believe most of the negative opinions on this silly thread is based on no first hand or at least minimum experience with the car.

So lets put our internet brass ones on for a minute, wait a minute, i got mine on, okay here goes, whoever lives in Norcal with a non 08 STi, that is relatively stock and no racing specific tires or slicks, tell me where you want to meet for an Autocross event. I'll let you drive this car, let me drive your older one, and we can then both see how the cars fare both our individual times in each seat, and how we drive compared to each other.


Gripin about roll is one thing, understanding your vehicle dynamics and driving it well is another.

This thread is like surfing here in Norcal, lots of wannabees in the water with pretty surfboards when its 3 foot and sunny out and the Whitesharks are in the Farallons, but come december/january when its 20 plus set waves and 48 degree water and our toothy friends are back in town where did all you point break heroes go?

Invite the car and driver folks out while your at it.

Driver not the car, flame on...

Well said Sir !

FWIW, the 135I starts at $35,600, not that far above the STI's sticker price. Red is available at no additional charge, and a nicely equipped one goes for $38525, including destination charges. The only thing you give up is back seat space (puts it out of the running for me.) You get a nicer looking car that goes faster...

Um, you also give up AWD... kind of a big deal up here in the north is an expensive feature to add to a car. I think a better comparison would be the 335xi. And looks are subjective, personally I like the STI's styling better. I park next to a 135i and to me the proportions are weird.

I think the 135i is a better sports car, but it's also more expensive and less practical, and as stated before, I don't understand the point people are trying to make with "you can option the STI up to this price point" or "you could get this or that for the cost of a loaded STI." You could also NOT option out your STI and get it for what myself and a great many other people feel is a very reasonable price for a 305HP AWD wagon that's actually somewhat refined.

I think people should stick to the performance arguments instead of nitpicking over the price of a navigation system.

I grew up in Connecticut, and never had a problem driving without AWD... But it was a deciding factor to the STI for me, as well. The 335 is a better comparison, and if money were not a factor and I were looking for a car now, it would figure pretty high on the list.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter to me, because a wagon was not what I wanted. Neither was a 2 door RWD coupe. The only car left in this niche is the Evo at this point. I'm glad I got the car I wanted while Subaru still made it. I'm dissapointed at Subaru for so radically changing it, but would overlook the styling if the performance kept up with the competition, performance wise anyways.

They have made a more practical car, but was that really what the STI was originally supposed to be? They've given up the unstated mission statement of hardcore performance car and taken on the "more people will buy this" mentality instead. More people may, but most likely not the same people.

Really, just looking at this article, it boils down to this in regards to the STI:
1. If you want to go faster for less with 2 doors, buy a Cobalt SS.
2. If you want to go faster for the same money, and still have AWD and a back seat, buy an Evo.
3. If you want a wagon, spend more for less performance, but get the car you want. At least it's better looking and more capable than the Caliber. God help us if that thing surpasses the STI.

Ultimately, it's your choice. I think there will be this rift between 04-07 and 08+ STI owners that will be hard to cross. They are two different cars, designed for different buyers. I think I will always look a an 08 and be dissapointed for what it lost, and that you will always look at 04-07s and be dissapointed for what they didn't have.

Very astute observations reddoak... Agreed you don't need AWD in CT (I got along fine with FWD and traction control), but I think a 300HP RWD coupe would be a major PITA come winter.

Anyway, I don't see the 08 hate as a necessity, and as I said before the whole rigamorall about pricing, I think people are overreacting and Subbie could easily fix the issue by offering a stripped down track version alongside the current model.

Hey, last year everyone was crying in their beer about the death of the WRX, look how quickly they turned that around.

You really are an idiot from another planet with no comprehension of the automotive world and market. My 09 does everything and more than your 05.
I've had more WRX's/STI's in the past 7 years than most people have cars in 15 years. You are delusional and easily swayed by a single article.

Props to GM for making a great, inexpensive well performing front driver. Good for them. The two cars do not compete in the same market or segment.
Some of us loyal WRX guys are now in our mid thirties and want something we can pick up clients and family in without looking like teenage boy racers.
I like the more civilized grownup feel of the new STI, which is why I have one.
Like I said before, most STI owners will not be cross shopping Cobalts.
The 08/09's work better than any other STI sold in North America. Stop trying to convince the people here that know better that they are crap.

Man, if I was had those image concerns, I think that the new STI wouldn't even be at the bottom of my list--a giant hood scoop and a dozen pink badges don't exactly say "mature" to me... I'd have gone with the Spec b... .

xxxxx

xxxxx

xxxxx

08 STI owner:

Hey everyone, let's tell Subaru what a great car the STI is and that they should not change anything about it! You know what, let's have others pay 45k for the car next year with 100 more pounds, no more power, even softer suspension and a sunroof and hail it as a brilliant move into the upscale market! Faster BMW's, Audi's, Infiniti's, and Benz's for the same price be damned! Hell, even the 23k Chevy's that toast STI's around the track be damned! Subaru forever!! All hail the all knowing Subaru!! Fraternity of slow and overpriced STI forever!

Rational person:

Man the STI is how much now? Wow, waaaayyy overpriced and slow. The BMW and Benz we just looked at are sooooo much nicer for the same money!! What? It's slower than that 23k Cobalt rental car looking thing we saw passing the Chevrolet dealership? Wasnt monster performance the point of the Subaru? Guess not. Oh my God are those the taillights? Ugh. I'll take that BMW or Benz for sure. Even that Infiniti G37 was way nicer.

Sorry for the multiple posts there, I did not mean to do that. The site is not working well.

wow according to the article the hatch back is less rigid then the out going GD chasis??

what happened, it got beat by a g37

maybe this will prompt soa to maybe bring over the spec C

wow according to the article the hatch back is less rigid then the out going GD chasis??

what happened, it got beat by a g37

maybe this will prompt soa to maybe bring over the spec C

there is no evidence the new car is less stiff than the old car, although I wouldn't be surprised if the new car is about equal to or only slightly stiffer than the old car because Subaru did not make any claims this time around like, "the new frame is 30% stiffer than the old frame". To my butt dyno, the new frame exhibits less flex than my braced '02 wagon, so I would be surprised if the new frame is significantly less stiff than the old one.

Frank

Of course you can. Just look at the Cobalt SS. Its 23k and beats cars twice it's price, including the STI. If GM can do it, Subaru surely can and has done before.


I would NEVER... NEVER cross-shop a Cobalt with the STI... BMW 135i, EVOX maybe but even then I still chose the STI over the 135i because it was still over 10k less for the STI compared to the optioned BMW I wanted.

Go buy the Cobalt and let the door slam you in the ass on the way out :)

08 STI owner:

Hey everyone, let's tell Subaru what a great car the STI is and that they should not change anything about it! You know what, let's have others pay 45k for the car next year with 100 more pounds, no more power, even softer suspension and a sunroof and hail it as a brilliant move into the upscale market! Faster BMW's, Audi's, Infiniti's, and Benz's for the same price be damned! Hell, even the 23k Chevy's that toast STI's around the track be damned! Subaru forever!! All hail the all knowing Subaru!! Fraternity of slow and overpriced STI forever!

Rational person:

Man the STI is how much now? Wow, waaaayyy overpriced and slow. The BMW and Benz we just looked at are sooooo much nicer for the same money!! What? It's slower than that 23k Cobalt rental car looking thing we saw passing the Chevrolet dealership? Wasnt monster performance the point of the Subaru? Guess not. Oh my God are those the taillights? Ugh. I'll take that BMW or Benz for sure. Even that Infiniti G37 was way nicer.


Amusing... why are you still driving your 05 then? That thing is a Dinasour... Now the 09 STI is a 45k dollar car? Some of you guys are amazing! Let me know when you drive an 08 and have driven each US STI near the limit... For the money, I would still have the Subaru.

Since I MODIFY my car and a good majority of STI owners do that, I am not looking at magazine reviews to enhance my dick size. I just can't understand the overwhelming GR hate this forum dishes out. I appologize, I didn't know your 05 was Gods Chariot :)

law,

I am driving my 05 still because it is a wonderful car to drive. At the time I bought it, the STI was in comparison a very fast, inexpensive(30k), ugly but able car for the money. Now, the 08 in comparison to it's competition is slow and way too expensive(36-40k with BBS and terrible stereo).

I will say this, the 08 is definitely a much much better buy if you work on the car yourself, put in your own seats, don't care about warranty and airbags, and modify it. I am not going to argue there. But for me and many many others who don't mod, the STI in its current state is a terrible buy.

Amusing... why are you still driving your 05 then? That thing is a Dinasour... Now the 09 STI is a 45k dollar car? Some of you guys are amazing! Let me know when you drive an 08 and have driven each US STI near the limit... For the money, I would still have the Subaru.

Since I MODIFY my car and a good majority of STI owners do that, I am not looking at magazine reviews to enhance my dick size. I just can't understand the overwhelming GR hate this forum dishes out. I appologize, I didn't know your 05 was Gods Chariot :)

Don't let him get to you law. His posts are full of inaccuracies and he has no concept of reality.

Most of the haters haven't driven a Stage 2 2008 STI. I would be happy to take them for a drive to change their mind and show them alot of the grunt and rawness is still there. :devil:

BTW, 30,000 in 2005 is about 33,650 in 2008. I paid 33,812 for my car with 18" BBS wheels and fogs.

Don't let him get to you law. His posts are full of inaccuracies and he has no concept of reality.

No they are not. You just don't want to accept reality. All the reviewers everywhere are in a conspiracy, yea that's it, that's the truth. :rolleyes:

Most of the haters haven't driven a Stage 2 2008 STI. I would be happy to take them for a drive to change their mind and show them alot of the grunt and rawness is still there. :devil:

Don't you see that there are many people who DO NOT MOD or STAGE 2 their STI!! Why isnt that sinking in with you? The 08 STI, FROM THE FACTORY, is an embarrassment performance wise relative to it's competition. As I said in a post just before this one, if you are willing to mod the car and lose warranty, and lose airbags in the seats since you have to put in third party ones, then it's a whole different deal.

BTW, 30,000 in 2005 is about 33,650 in 2008. I paid 33,812 for my car with 18" BBS wheels and fogs.

Wow so that makes the Cobalt SS like 19-20k if it were out back then. Wow. That would have been one hell of a 19k car. See, that's what the STI used to be, what used to be it's undeniable charm. Equal or better performance for half the price of it's performance competitors.


Im done posting on this topic, too many people with their head in the clouds and unwilling to face the music and get Subaru to fix the car.

Of course you can. Just look at the Cobalt SS. Its 23k and beats cars twice it's price, including the STI. If GM can do it, Subaru surely can and has done before.

Beat me to the punch. +1

Oh trust me, no one is getting to me :) I just argue for the sake of arguing because its opinion vs opinion , a never ending battle!

I will not disagree that from the factory it could have been more, but an improvement over the outgoing model is all I could ask for with the price hardly going up.

As far as a "****ty stereo", it is still better than any other STI offering, which still isn't saying much. One of the first things to go in any of my Subarus I have owned has been the stereo and sway bars.

There are just as many people that DO mod their STI though :) If it was that bad no one would have bought it. The car does not need fixing... :) really it doesn't... I think the community needs to face reality when they are asking WAY too much. Be happy the US market still gets this gas guzzling Niche car...

No they are not. You just don't want to accept reality. All the reviewers everywhere are in a conspiracy, yea that's it, that's the truth. :rolleyes:



Don't you see that there are many people who DO NOT MOD or STAGE 2 their STI!! Why isnt that sinking in with you? The 08 STI, FROM THE FACTORY, is an embarrassment performance wise relative to it's competition. As I said in a post just before this one, if you are willing to mod the car and lose warranty, and lose airbags in the seats since you have to put in third party ones, then it's a whole different deal.



Wow so that makes the Cobalt SS like 19-20k if it were out back then. Wow. That would have been one hell of a 19k car. See, that's what the STI used to be, what used to be it's undeniable charm. Equal or better performance for half the price of it's performance competitors.


Im done posting on this topic, too many people with their head in the clouds and unwilling to face the music and get Subaru to fix the car.



The SRT4 is still faster.

Hey Bored2Fast, and mapleleaf, if you don't have anything semi-intelligent to say other than "you are an idiot", please keep it to yourself.

aaronmsadler, I wish that was the problem. But every test, in every mag, and on every show? Very noticeable understeer, and way too much body roll. Every review says the same thing. Just think if Subaru just fixes the damn thing. All the great reviews will sell the car more than any "Fraternity of STI" garbage. I don't see any new STI's on the road, all I see are 06-07's and a few 04's and 05's.

WRXLEP, the STI cars date back to the mid-late 90's in countries outside of the US. The STI's back then were able to equal or beat the M3 of it's time. An M3 that was more expensive than the STI. Look it up. Sorry that you thought the STI's began in 2004.


But Bored2Fast and mapleleaf are correct. You are an idiot and know nothing about the 08 STI to base you opinions off of. If you don't like being flamed when you make statements you cannot possibly logically support (except in your own head), then step away from the keyboard or find another site. Idiot. I mean seriously, where do you get your information? STi (with a little i) was invented in 1988. Not the mid 90s. It was invented in Japan. A Country...singular...Look it up.

Do you even know what understeer is or do you just read about it so you can complain? I love my 08. Its not stock, but I enjoyed it when it was. Granted, the reflash really woke the car up, but an accessport and some coilovers turn it into a totally different animal. I also have a JDM 1996 STi RHD V3. I've taken both to the track...Guess what, they both understeer! So whats your point about the earlier cars exactly?

You're probably one of those kids that thinks Vtec adds 100hp just because a magazine told you it does.

And for your information, Subaru has sold more 08s, proportionally, at this time in the year, than any other previous model. Just because YOU don't see them doesn't mean they aren't out there. I see them, everywhere, all the time in Austin.

The 08 does not suck. C&D does. They have for years now. I mean seriously, how does an M3 beat a GT-R?? :lol:

If my post offended you, I'm not sorry. If you are upset because people are jumping on you about your baseless rants, I'm not sorry. Do some research or you will continue to get flamed, because you deserve it.

I've also driven a colbalt. I can't seem to find the greatness or whatever it is you are ranting about. Its a decent car and I won't bash it but you are way off base with that one.

^^^ I can't believe somone took the time to make all that up. Impressive!

totally agree, if it was a business letter, do you really think it would be written that way?? :lol: i like the salesmen quotes "the suv that beat the cayenne," such bs, even if C&D's numbers arent consistent.

^^^^LOL what GumbieGC8 said....

JasonCPS, you were the one that stated that STI's were dominating in the 1990's. But we are in NORTH AMERICA. There was NO STI in NORTH AMERICA until 2004.

I am glad you are leaving this thread. Good riddance.

GumbieGC8 made a complete fool of himself and called me an idiot in the process.

The first STi hit the roads ALL OVER THE WORLD in 1994. Yes it was JDM spec BUT SOLD ALL OVER THE WORLD, except the US.

I KNOW MANY PEOPLE WHO DROVE EVOS AND STI'S WAY BEFORE THEY CAME TO AMERICA. You are the fool, not I.

SERIOUSLY, NASIOC is full to the rim with ignorant insulting people. I think the idiots on here are the ones who think every reviewer on the planet writes bad things about the STI because they want to.

Oh well.

And for your information, Subaru has sold more 08s, proportionally, at this time in the year, than any other previous model. Just because YOU don't see them doesn't mean they aren't out there. I see them, everywhere, all the time in Austin.

i agree.

they are softening the STi to SELL THEM, not to make everyone pissed off about body roll. jesus christ, dont people realize that subaru is a business, they make a product, and they want people to buy it. the mass public doesnt want a rock hard ride with a loud exhaust. the changes are also supported by AGING demographics, most dudes who had sick impreza's in mid 90's to early 2000's (when they were cheap, rough edged, sporty) are getting older (MORE disposable income>>luxury features aka nav leading to higher prices) and are loyal to the product due to previous experience, they probably have (or will be having) kids and are near their 30's, so they are directly pinpointing the people who want them. they want room for kids, comfy seats, non whiplash suspension setups, and fancy electro features and all that shhhh.
im 20, i wish the STi was 400 hp and just a frame and drivetrain with panels, should i be pissed off they changed it? no way! myself including my demographic doesnt have any disposable income, so why would they design it for me if i cant buy it. they will design it for people who have to money buy it. if you want a bucket with big power and good handling, buy a gc8 and swap an sti drivetrain, there you go, you got ur perfect STi.
the enthusiast is a minority percentage of the market, i dont know why people on here dont see that the market is NOT limited to NASIOC.

someone also mentioned the fact that SWRT (soob world rally team) is trying to stay competitive in WRC, and i support that argument as well. the ONLY sedan left last year in wrc was the subaru (before anyone freaks out, the mitsu isnt in wrc), its just an outdated design. and to all the haters that think the wagon is for wimps, get over urself, as far as im concerned its a perfect opportunity to build a sleeper, and bring ur hockey bag and snowboarding gear with you so u can destroy the same a-hole on the track, on the blueline, and in the park as well hahahaha

GumbieGC8 made a complete fool of himself and called me an idiot in the process.

The first STi hit the roads ALL OVER THE WORLD in 1994. Yes it was JDM spec BUT SOLD ALL OVER THE WORLD, except the US.

I KNOW MANY PEOPLE WHO DROVE EVOS AND STI'S WAY BEFORE THEY CAME TO AMERICA. You are the fool, not I.

SERIOUSLY, NASIOC is full to the rim with ignorant insulting people. I think the idiots on here are the ones who think every reviewer on the planet writes bad things about the STI because they want to.

Oh well.

I came back to see if you were going to post anything even remotely intelligent. Should have known you were gonna let me down.

I wouldn't have had to park your ignorant a$$ if you had based your opnion off of a valid magazine. C&D is the maxipad of the automotive literature industry. Just because you KNOW people with nicer cars than your doesn't doesn't mean you have anything even resembling knowledge of STI/STi.

Go back and read what I posted again. I'm focusing on C&D. I didn't say every reviewer...dummy. There are definitely some real issues with the STI, in every configuration. If you are so unhappy with the 08, don't buy one. Keep your boy racer, large wing, and giant hood scoop having 05. Or trade it in!! We don't care! Buy a BMW if you can afford it.

I thought you were leaving? If NASIOC if full of the people you described in your latest lackluster post, then please run along and play on the cobalt forum.

I'm done with you.

I am only reading JasonCPS posts via quotes....this is amusing!

GumbieGC8 made a complete fool of himself and called me an idiot in the process.

The first STi hit the roads ALL OVER THE WORLD in 1994. Yes it was JDM spec BUT SOLD ALL OVER THE WORLD, except the US.

I KNOW MANY PEOPLE WHO DROVE EVOS AND STI'S WAY BEFORE THEY CAME TO AMERICA. You are the fool, not I.

SERIOUSLY, NASIOC is full to the rim with ignorant insulting people. I think the idiots on here are the ones who think every reviewer on the planet writes bad things about the STI because they want to.

Oh well.


Actually you are an idiot...

STi was founded in 1988 and I also believe there was a 91 Legacy STi that was released. So technically he was partially right and you were completely wrong? So maybe you should check your history as well? :D

"C&D is the maxipad of the automotive literature industry."

hahahah

I hope the original poster who is from C&D sees that. It's pretty funny.

Im not going to bother responding to your comments, it's a waste of time.

Actually you are an idiot...

STi was founded in 1988 and I also believe there was a 91 Legacy STi that was released. So technically he was partially right and you were completely wrong? So maybe you should check your history as well? :D

Thats exactly what I told him!!! I wish he could read more analytically.

the 08 is stiffer. I read SOA literature about how it's so stiff, strut bars are unnecessary.

Actually you are an idiot...

STi was founded in 1988 and I also believe there was a 91 Legacy STi that was released. So technically he was partially right and you were completely wrong? So maybe you should check your history as well? :D

STi was founded in 1988, yes, but the first road going Impreza STi was in the 92 model year.

It's amazing how people want to argue facts. People want to call others idiots for stating facts that they think are somehow wrong.

What's funny is that most people in the thread agree with me! The only two guys who disagree keep posting! :)

STi was founded in 1988, yes, but the first road going Impreza STi was in the 92 model year.

It's amazing how people want to argue facts. People want to call others idiots for stating facts that they think are somehow wrong.

please stop attacking eachother over technicalities, its pretty ridiculous. get the point, and if u have already, stop posting.

thank you

STi was founded in 1988, yes, but the first road going Impreza STi was in the 92 model year.

It's amazing how people want to argue facts. People want to call others idiots for stating facts that they think are somehow wrong.

What's funny is that most people in the thread agree with me! Only two guys who disagree keep posting! :)

No one mentioned Impreza STi, we were just talking STi :) So Legacy STi beats out the Impreza :)

please stop attacking eachother over technicalities, its pretty ridiculous. get the point, and if u have already, stop posting.

thank you

Point of this thread is that

SRT4 Wins, everything else is a Fail!!

hahaha

I'm pretty sure if you deleted all the idiocy out of this thread you'd be left with about a post and a half worth of intelligent insight. I'm heading back to the regional forums and another STI forum where they instituted a ban on GR hating back in July... I never understood it until now. I'm guessing there have been at least 19 other threads almost identical to this since last fall.

I'm pretty sure if you deleted all the idiocy out of this thread you'd be left with about a post and a half worth of intelligent insight. I'm heading back to the regional forums and another STI forum where they instituted a ban on GR hating back in July... I never understood it until now. I'm guess there have been at least 19 other threads almost identical to this since last fall.

Thats why I am a happy member over at IWSTI ;)

Has anyone considered the amount of money C&D makes from companies advertising with them as a proportion relative to the reviews each vehicle recieves?
I would dare to say there is less subaru money coming their way. Regardless it has an impact on folks with no first hand or little knowledge about a specific vehicle. Obvious from this thread full of bible thumping conviction about how poor the STi is.

You all can believe what you want and again my offer is bring any car in a relatively stock form and lets share some seat time. In other words, F other peoples opinions lets establish our own opinions based on first hand experience instead of the ridiculous amount of speculation on this thread based on the goony fricken goo goos at C&D.

My god - it took people a year for people to figure out the 08 is rubbish?

Is this something that is still actually being debated?

Ughhh............

The same people were saying how great the 08 wrx was last year, and we all know how that ended....
The 08 STI is an embarrassment, and I trust that serious work is being done to rectify this.

I agree with you antimullet. I think I continue to bicker because I have had seat time in almost every US model year STI except the 07... Its a fact that most 08 owners that have come from previous year STI models don't regret the move.

Its also a fact that out of all the magazine reviews the times/reviews are VERY inconsistent across the board.

It would be great to bring some cars together, different brands and models and just have a go at it switching off between cars! We can dream!

My god - it took people a year for people to figure out the 08 is rubbish?

Is this something that is still actually being debated?

Ughhh............

The same people were saying how great the 08 wrx was last year, and we all know how that ended....
The 08 STI is an embarrassment, and I trust that serious work is being done to rectify this.

Amen! Intelligence and objectivity on NASIOC! Not just another brainless 08 defender!

Hey fastfreddy, look at the only people who defend the 08's. They all own ones. They don't want to accept that the car is a joke. They want to believe that every mag and TV show is in a conspiracy against Subaru.

Hey 08 owners, how does it feel pulling up to the traffic light next to the guy in the Benz C350 Sport Sedan who payed the same for his car as you did for your Subaru with worse performance, and seats and tailights that look like Subaru got them from Walmart.

I would take this car over a 2008 STI w/BBS and NAV, which is 39k, any day of the week:
http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/MBHome.html?#/vehiclesMenu/exploreOverview/?vmf=C350W&yr=2009&vc=C

Yea let's hear it 08 people, let's hear how your car is better than a C350 Sport. I would love to hear this. 99.5% of car buyers will take the Benz and in your hearts you know it too. What we need is not only for you to know it, we need Subaru to know this and to fix the car.

haha :)

I have never ran into an STI owner as narrowminded as you :)

Have you driven an 08? Lets talk once you do... There are MANY of us that have either tracked a previous gen STI or owned a previous gen STI that would never go back/want to go back. The fact that it is an improvement from the outgoing model is enough for me.

I can see it is not ENOUGH for everyone however and I can accept that. So many care TOO much about the competition and preceived impressions! We all bought the STI for a reason, no? Can't we all just get along? Considering looks are subjective, can't we commend Subaru for releasing a great new car? or Because it is not "up to par with the competition", we have to comdemn it? and Honestly, its not being BLOWN away in every review. This is the only review that I have seen so far with this BIG of a difference. Its a few parts short from being great, and those parts do NOT include ECU tuning or Exhaust modifications.

I would take this car over a 2008 STI w/BBS and NAV, which is 39k, any day of the week:
http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/MBHome.html?#/vehiclesMenu/exploreOverview/?vmf=C350W&yr=2009&vc=C

Yea let's hear it 08 people, let's hear how your car is better than a C350 Sport. I would love to hear this. 99.5% of car buyers will take the Benz and in your hearts you know it too. What we need is not only for you to know it, we need Subaru to know this and to fix the car.


Clicked on the link. That photo of the low-front angle looks like a Kia body with a Mercedes grille...Sorry, the appearance of that car is nothing special. I don't own any STi of any year, so I'm not defending them, but do you honestly think that C350 looks sportier than the 08 STi? Do guys under the age of 40 actually buy that car? I'd pick a Caddy CTS over that C350 hands down any day. That C350 performs great I'm sure, but man that's boring to look at for that price. Hey, I'm sure the oversized emblem in the grille gets guys a BJ tho... :p

people, people... everyone is trying to compare these benz's and beemers with the STi saying better this and more this, granted thats true, BUT THERE'S NO AWD!!!!! so there ya go, take ur comparo's and stick it up ur a$$ haha. lots of people dont live in arizona and cali where it never rains or snows. i got a soob because of awd and its pricetag, not because its a tuneable rice rocket for the track, its a rally car! get that thing sideways and dirty!!!

there is no evidence the new car is less stiff than the old car, although I wouldn't be surprised if the new car is about equal to or only slightly stiffer than the old car because Subaru did not make any claims this time around like, "the new frame is 30% stiffer than the old frame". To my butt dyno, the new frame exhibits less flex than my braced '02 wagon, so I would be surprised if the new frame is significantly less stiff than the old one.

Frank

yea umm the wagon isnt as stiff as the sedan. so im sorry i cant trust your butt dyno.. anyways it make sense if it is less stiff since its rear half is open with no bracing or added support on the rear strut towers.

yea umm the wagon isnt as stiff as the sedan. so im sorry i cant trust your butt dyno.. anyways it make sense if it is less stiff since its rear half is open with no bracing or added support on the rear strut towers.


It would be easier to say that the chassis is STIFFER than the outgoing model. There has been a lot said about the chassis refinement for 2008...

The new platform has more structural rigidity than the outgoing one.
What are you talking about? The 08/09's are not GC's, they are the best platform to date and will continue to get better like they do every new revision.
This whole thread makes me laugh so much. It's very subjective, just like the original post.
It's ironic that I canceled my C&D subscription last year and replaced it with R&T.

Amen! Intelligence and objectivity on NASIOC! Not just another brainless 08 defender!

Hey fastfreddy, look at the only people who defend the 08's. They all own ones. They don't want to accept that the car is a joke. They want to believe that every mag and TV show is in a conspiracy against Subaru.

Hey 08 owners, how does it feel pulling up to the traffic light next to the guy in the Benz C350 Sport Sedan who payed the same for his car as you did for your Subaru with worse performance, and seats and tailights that look like Subaru got them from Walmart.

I would take this car over a 2008 STI w/BBS and NAV, which is 39k, any day of the week:
http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/MBHome.html?#/vehiclesMenu/exploreOverview/?vmf=C350W&yr=2009&vc=C

Yea let's hear it 08 people, let's hear how your car is better than a C350 Sport. I would love to hear this. 99.5% of car buyers will take the Benz and in your hearts you know it too. What we need is not only for you to know it, we need Subaru to know this and to fix the car.

You're borderline trolling this thread.
Please stop and try to be a little more objective.
BTW, people are calling you an idiot because you are coming across that way.

SERIOUSLY, NASIOC is full to the rim with ignorant insulting people. I think the idiots on here are the ones who think every reviewer on the planet writes bad things about the STI because they want to.


Im not going to bother responding to your comments, it's a waste of time.


yes, and you seem to be one of the ignorant ones :) also no one is saying "every" just C&D because of there recent track record.

for not responding to people comments your sure responding to a lot of them still, hmm.. interesting.

...also thought you said you where not going posting here any more? oh well we can't all tell the truth all the time ;)

"now i say good day sir, i say GOOD DAY...."

from my understanding even the wrc group n car has been getting bad results.
but then again the competition has a slight advantage in suspension geometry. which ford,citroen,pugeot.all of which where a fwd,and none of which the manufacturer had ever intended to be awd.
short wheelbase platforms to begin with. leading to my point, the new impreza having more attributes from a legacy from prior years in wheelbase and many styling cues is what i think was subarus excuse for a new car that that didnt have to be built from scratch and using already existing platform... lego's. " hey, the legacy sales are doing far better than the impreza...i have an idea!"
subaru also needs to stop selling out.gm. toyota, thus more references
to small hatch/wagon designs like the matrix.
subaru doesnt care about winning races or catering to the die hard enthusiast. its all about the status quo.cha-ching.
in my opinion i see the gd as the last good subaru set-up. matching that of the 86 corolla's and early model nissans as far as nostalgic preference is concerned. brain fart. prodrive? didnt they make a bad ass car from some thing resembling an egg?hmm i wonder what happened with that....subarus gtr.p1 vs.gtr?
enough ranting.subaru has officially disappointed me with the lack of ftd and creativity in the new model. 05 gd ftw!