Looking ahead at the tires available to us for the SCCA ST* Solo classes for the 2009 season.

I think there’s only three choices:

1. Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD07
2. Bridgestone Potenza RE-01r
3. Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec

I run STX. I’ll campaign the Dunlop in 245 40-17 shaved to half tread for 2009. Ran the Bridgestone for 2008 shaved half tread. Loved it.

TireRack has the Dunlop rated the same for dry as the Yokohama both better than the Bridgestone.

Kumho Ecsta XS is legal and is fast on the West Coast. I'd actually go ahead and remove the Neova from your list, it is slower than the others in testing and cost an arm and a leg.

Kumho Ecsta XS is legal and is fast on the West Coast. I'd actually go ahead and remove the Neova from your list, it is slower than the others in testing and cost an arm and a leg.

Remove Bridgestone, too. The Dunlops are far superior in everything but treadwear.

3 choices? I count 7 that should be out before April:

Bridgestone Potenza RE-11
Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 StarSpec
Hankook RS-3
Kumho XS
Nitto NT05
Toyo R1R
Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD08

I thought Yoko is redoing the Neova for 2009. Even still it would have to be give r-comp performance for me to pay the crack prices they ask for them.

The RE-11 looks promising, and I'd like to see what the Kuhmo does.

Bingo.

3 choices? I count 7 that should be out before April:

Bridgestone Potenza RE-11 Can't wait to see more data
Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 StarSpec Great tires
Hankook RS-3 Need more data
Kumho XS Need more data
Nitto NT05 Meh
Toyo R1R Probably my rain tires
Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD08 Crack prices

You want 235/40/17 on WRX, not 245/40/17... shorter gearing.

mmmmmmmmmmmmm Star Specs

You want 235/40/17 on WRX, not 245/40/17... shorter gearing. Hrmm, the WRX that won Nationals was on 245/40/17's...

As BrianGT stated, there are 7 possible options for next year. The Dunlop is the proven tire at this point, and where I would place my bet if I needed tires in February/March with a small budget. Luckily, I'm getting some nearly used up Dunlops that should get me through to mid/late May and let others do all the testing on the new stuff. But for cost/performance, I think its going to be either the Dunlop or the Bridgestone RE-11 as the tires to have next year, with the RE-11 getting the nod, especially with all their ST* support.

IIRC, some super secret tire testing was done with the RE-11 and Dunlop, with the RE-11 hinted at to be the better tire. Unfortunately, I don't think the "official" outcome of that test was revealed.

Yoko's...yeah, sorry I don't have a money tree in my backyard. ;)

Hrmm, the WRX that won Nationals was on 245/40/17's...

Really - that hack McCance was on 245's? In that case, I'll shut up:D

I'd still love to try a 245/35/17. I would be a bit nervous of running out of gear on a faster course.

that hack McCance was on 245's?...
Made me laugh. Nice.

I'd still love to try a 245/35/17. I would be a bit nervous of running out of gear on a faster course.
I think only the Toyo's are even proposed to come in 245/35/17. I'd run the Dunlop in that size if it was offered. So it's either 245/40 or 235/40.

You want 235/40/17 on WRX, not 245/40/17... shorter gearing.

its the height of the wall not the width that affects the gearing

But for the same height (i.e., 40 in this case), a wider tire is taller. The "40" is a ratio to the width. ;)

its the height of the wall not the width that affects the gearing

And a 235/40 is shorter than a 245/40... go look it up.

hmm, always thought only the wall height played the role in that, I stand corrected

hmm, always thought only the wall height played the role in that, I stand corrected

The "wall height" that you refer to is actually the aspect ratio, which is the ratio of the sidewall height to the width of the tire. Wider tires with the same aspect ratio will have a taller sidewall than a more narrow tire.

EDIT: wikipedia article on how do decode tire labelling: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire_code

Its 40% of 235 vs 40% of 245 i believe correct me if im wrong

I think only the Toyo's are even proposed to come in 245/35/17. I'd run the Dunlop in that size if it was offered. So it's either 245/40 or 235/40.

I was very temped to give those a try this last season. That's if they were available.

Tire competition is fun! Here's some pictures of/links to some of the newer tires.

Hankook Ventus RS-3

http://citytireonline.com/SEMA08/HankookRS3_1.jpg

Advan Neova AD08

http://citytireonline.com/SEMA08/YokoNeovaAD08_2.jpg

(Above two from http://citytireonline.com/news/)

Bridgestone RE-11

http://www.bridgestone.co.jp/info/news/img_news/20071219_01.jpg

Image from here (http://www.bridgestone.co.jp/info/news/2007121901.html). There's a (p)review here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNxGFknd7HM). My Japanese skills are really basic, but I'm pretty sure they're saying it's good. :)

As mentioned, there's some people running the Kuhmo XS where it's still warm. Any more info? I also think the NT05 could be decent, but Nitto needs a better size selection (not to many in 17s listed, but lots of 20s?).

I'm waiting until spring to pick one. My money is on the RE11 right now

some links

http://www.racingtireguide.com/autocross-street-tires.html

http://4g63vim.wordpress.com/2008/02/13/bridgestone-re-11-to-replace-re-01r/

I'm probably going to go with the Star Specs since they are a lot cheaper then the RE01Rs/RE11s, but I know that the RE11 will probably be the better choice. Guess I'll have to see how baller I am around March when I get a set.

Toyo R1R anyone? when I wanted to run my miata in ST thats the tire I was looking to run

any info on the RS3's? they look like a fun tire

I like my star specs. :D Far superior to the azenis and Kumho MX. I will reserve judgment on the Kumho XS until I can run some. The Yokes are way overrated and way overpriced.

No dog in the fight but,

I think alot will be dictated by any contingency program. Tires that are fast and pay are the ones to have.

The Yoks were worth it when they paid to win on them, kinda cancelled out the price.


For a fat Subaru.
Run the Toyos if you can afford lots of sets

Dunlops are currently the best for the money. Even if they do wear odd.

Current bridgestones suck for our cars (I did not like them), Fiedler and King would probably disagree ;) They couldn't have paid me to run them this year. Although they're raving about the re-11's. According to bridgestone (nationals trailer guys) themselves the blind testing they did this year in Wisconsin was with the Jap spec compound which will probably not be seen in the U.S.

Kuhmo IDK but results look promising. And based on their prior ability to deal with heat they might be the ones you'd like to take into a pro-solo challenge.

Hankook may get it right...minus teh gay embelishments

Nitto I don't think they understand our little ST* market.

Yoks-----overpriced with no contingency

So now you guys have 7 tires to test? Yep I'd agree ST* classes are cheaper.:lol:

my.02
Greg

I just noticed the Nittos are 200 treadwear. I don't know if these will really be a factor. Did anyone run NT-01s in ST* ?

My limited impression of the Toyo R1Rs are that they don't last so long, but are pretty good dry and great in the wet. But, I've never run these on a Subaru, so...

I'm removing my boost controller and dropping into STU next year where I belong (from BSP, where I was most certainly not prepared). I plan on 245/40/17 Star Specs this season, which will be a welcome relief coming from Sumitomos :lol:. They've gotten stellar reviews and come highly recommended. I hope Santa can fit them down the chimney...

FWIW, I drive an Evo VIII

No dog in the fight but,

I think alot will be dictated by any contingency program. Tires that are fast and pay are the ones to have.

The Yoks were worth it when they paid to win on them, kinda cancelled out the price.


For a fat Subaru.
Run the Toyos if you can afford lots of sets

Dunlops are currently the best for the money. Even if they do wear odd.

Current bridgestones suck for our cars (I did not like them), Fiedler and King would probably disagree ;) They couldn't have paid me to run them this year. Although they're raving about the re-11's. According to bridgestone (nationals trailer guys) themselves the blind testing they did this year in Wisconsin was with the Jap spec compound which will probably not be seen in the U.S.

Kuhmo IDK but results look promising. And based on their prior ability to deal with heat they might be the ones you'd like to take into a pro-solo challenge.

Hankook may get it right...minus teh gay embelishments

Nitto I don't think they understand our little ST* market.

Yoks-----overpriced with no contingency

So now you guys have 7 tires to test? Yep I'd agree ST* classes are cheaper.:lol:

my.02
Greg

Just a couple of notes to add to yours. :)

- The Dunlop Z1s wear great and more evenly if you get them shaved. Full tread is good for very wet conditions though.

- From what I've seen heavy AWD cars destroy and overheat the Toyo R1Rs.

- Agree with your opinion on the Bridgestones. :D

- Don't know why the Kumho's heat tolerance would be good for Pro challenges? It's only 2 runs at a time for a total of~60 sec, and you can spray/cool between rounds.

- The Nitto's rubber felt very hard @ SEMA.

Rick

I have not had much problem with uneven wear on my star specs. Yes, they wear the outside shoulders on the fronts,but other than that they have been wearing fine.

I really liked the OEM bridgestones on my 04 Sti (RE070). So much so I bought another set - and they were expensive. They have been eclipsed by more modern tires, though.

I agree with your take on the R1Rs - though they do work great on my friends Lotus.

Just a couple of notes to add to yours. :)
- Don't know why the Kumho's heat tolerance would be good for Pro challenges? It's only 2 runs at a time for a total of~60 sec, and you can spray/cool between rounds.
Rick

That was just based on what I've experienced. The deeper you get the less time you have. Once core temperature is up you could put them in bathtubs and after the first 2 corners it's back to push city. This is only compounded if you have a dual driver ST* car that both drivers make it in the challange.

I found each run was progressively slower as understeer increased. I would like a tire that could deal with higher temps better.

YMMV:)

And I realize I'm a non-challenge winner talking to a challenge winner.;)
Greg

That was just based on what I've experienced. The deeper you get the less time you have. Once core temperature is up you could put them in bathtubs and after the first 2 corners it's back to push city. This is only compounded if you have a dual driver ST* car that both drivers make it in the challange.

I found each run was progressively slower as understeer increased. I would like a tire that could deal with higher temps better.

YMMV:)

And I realize I'm a non-challenge winner talking to a challenge winner.;)
Greg

True, I was a second driver at a hot Pro and the tires (Yoks) started hot and got worse. Too bad they don't go back to the 2+2 run format.

At the cooler SoCal national events in Feb - March, the car gets faster with more runs. :p

Rick

I motion that ST have a spec tire. Say the................hey, RE92. :D

I motion that ST have a spec tire. Say the................hey, RE92. :D

:lol: :lol: :lol:

--kC

I motion that ST have a spec tire. Say the................hey, RE92. :D

I thought autocross was supposed to be fun though? :lol:

No dog in the fight but,

I think alot will be dictated by any contingency program. Tires that are fast and pay are the ones to have.

The Yoks were worth it when they paid to win on them, kinda cancelled out the price.


For a fat Subaru.
Run the Toyos if you can afford lots of sets

Dunlops are currently the best for the money. Even if they do wear odd.

Current bridgestones suck for our cars (I did not like them), Fiedler and King would probably disagree ;) They couldn't have paid me to run them this year. Although they're raving about the re-11's. According to bridgestone (nationals trailer guys) themselves the blind testing they did this year in Wisconsin was with the Jap spec compound which will probably not be seen in the U.S.

Kuhmo IDK but results look promising. And based on their prior ability to deal with heat they might be the ones you'd like to take into a pro-solo challenge.

Hankook may get it right...minus teh gay embelishments

Nitto I don't think they understand our little ST* market.

Yoks-----overpriced with no contingency

So now you guys have 7 tires to test? Yep I'd agree ST* classes are cheaper.:lol:

my.02
Greg

I would disagree with your Bridgestone comments for sure! (I might be biased though)

When I drove on the Toyos at the Milwaukee test, all I can say is awful. It felt like I was on my snow tires or something. They obviously work on the light Civics, but our cars are way too heavy.

-Colin

So Colin, I'm assuming you think the RE-11 will be THE tire for next season? :p

Of course I do! ;)

-Colin

Will Dunlop offer contingecy for 2009? Kumho paid out for pro and tour events in 2008, so that must attract drivers.

So did Bridgestone.

I've never remembered Dunlop to pay out contingency for anything.

--kC

It's nice to have all of those choices, perhaps the competition will create lower prices.
I hope hankook stiffened up the sidewall on the rs-3.
I'm praying that I have bought my last tire for street touring(other than for actual street driving) though.....the mini might actually be done for the upcoming season. :crossing fingers:

I hope the RE-11 works good on heavier cars, as Bridgestone kicks ass with all of their support to the solo community!

I have been hearing tons of good things about the star specs... all tires in this bracket have grip but there are some other good points that i have been reading in realation to the stars.

- Tire wear is good
- Consistent performance under load with changing tire temps too

It's nice to have all of those choices, perhaps the competition will create lower prices.:lol:

Make some 13" nice street tires! :( lol really limited market

I hope the RE-11 works good on heavier cars, as Bridgestone kicks ass with all of their support to the solo community!

This is what I'm hoping as well. I really want to run the Bridgestone, I just hope the tire is as good as the support. Any pricing out for these yet?

Make some 13" nice street tires! :( lol really limited market
agreed. Especially 175/50 r13. There are a lot of older, smaller cars that would absolutely rip if there was a 13 inch tire from this category.

With info from this thread, and other forums, I've narrowed my choices down to two:
1. Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec
2. Bridgestone Potenza RE-11
The deciding factor will be how long my current RE-01r's last. They're already past the first set of wear bars and the shoulders are rounded off. When the shoulders start to cord if the RE-11 isn't out it's the Star Spec.

I don't understand why you would want to narrow anything with so little data out there. Does your season start earlier out there?

Out West, the season never ends....

Stupid winter. :mad:


But then again...have you ever autocrossed in the snow/ice? Winter season can be fun on occasion. :D

I don't understand why you would want to narrow anything with so little data out there. Does your season start earlier out there?
Las Vegas Region
Last event of our 2008 season is scheduled December 14th.
First event of the 2009 season is scheduled January 17th.

We Solo Year round. July, August, and September we drive at night.


But then again...have you ever autocrossed in the snow/ice? Winter season can be fun on occasion. :D
I thought we called that rallycross? :D

Not when it's on asphalt. ;)

...I'd actually go ahead and remove the Neova from your list, it is slower than the others in testing and cost an arm and a leg.


I know my opinion is small with so much response, but I had to comment on this. Based on my limited track experience, not racing, I have found the AD07 to be the more progressive, grippier, and and faster tire between the RE01R and the AD07. Wear seemed very similar, but overall I felt I could push and feel the limit better with the AD07s, and wet performance was noticeably better on the track with the Advans as well.

They are expensive though, and all cars will be set up different with the drivers style and preference differing as well.

I thought we called that rallycross? :D

Actually, ice races sanctioned by SCCA are now handled only under rallycross.

3 weeks until the April 30th cutoff... think we'll see the AD08 in time?

3 weeks until the April 30th cutoff... think we'll see the AD08 in time?

yup ;)

yup ;)ok, I'll play along... so, what have you heard? ...we need 225/45/17 ....tirerack tacking preorders?

I motion that ST have a spec tire. Say the................hey, RE92. :D

I thought we had one back in the day...wasn't it known as the Azenis? :p

It's nice to have all of those choices, perhaps the competition will create lower prices.
I hope hankook stiffened up the sidewall on the rs-3.
I'm praying that I have bought my last tire for street touring(other than for actual street driving) though.....the mini might actually be done for the upcoming season. :crossing fingers:

The RS-3s seem to be available now on TireRack. Has anyone tried them?

Either I can't read or they don't have a size that I like...seems to skip from 225 to 255 in 17"? :confused:

-Biggly

Just flipped through the new issue of GRM and they tested the ST* tires. All the tires were shaved to 3/32. The only problem they ran into in the test was that the tires weren't all available in the same size (testing was done on a civic with 15x7.5f/15x7r wheels), but here are the times from the test on their auto-x:

Falken Azenis RT 615 (205/50/15)
mean: 35.302
quickest: 35.125

Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec (195/55/15)
mean: 35.209
quickest: 35.061

Toyo Proxes R1R (205/50/15)
mean: 34.522
quickest: 34.452

Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R (195/50/15)
mean: 34.478
quickest: 34.430

Bridgestone Potenza RE-11 (205/50/15)
mean: 34.266
quickest: 34.238

Kuhmo ECSTA XS (205/50/15)
mean: 34.170
quickest: 34.030

I don't know how well those times transfer up to the bigger sizes or what you can make from them since the RE-01r and Star Specs were a narrower size. Just thought I would share.




Also, I run 225/45/17 in ST and will be in need of a new set of tires to replace my Falkens in a few months. I guess it's now down to the Star Specs, Ecsta XS, and RS3's since the Bridgestones are out of my budget. Anyone have any experiences with the Kumho's or RS3's yet?

Heh, not only that, but the Dunlops were the tallest tire in the test. Tall tires on a Civic = death. You thought it was torqueless before...

Not that it matters. Bridgestone and Toyo pay, so that it what will be run after everyone's '08 tires give out.

I don't know if the Tire rack specs are correct or not but it says that the AD08 weighs 19lb. vs. 26lb. for the RE-11 and Star Spec. Could be a pretty significant difference.

I disagree with running tires because of contingency. When it comes down to nationals i dont care who pays out. I'll be on the fastest tire period.

All I know is i'm glad i moved to a class where i only have two tires to choose from.

-Wong

Also, I run 225/45/17 in ST and will be in need of a new set of tires to replace my Falkens in a few months. I guess it's now down to the Star Specs, Ecsta XS, and RS3's since the Bridgestones are out of my budget. Anyone have any experiences with the Kumho's or RS3's yet?

get the xs, i've been running 'em on my rs for a few months now. good predictable grip, they're fast & tolerate heat well plus they're the cheapest of the tires you mentioned ;)

It depends on WHY the tire is heavier. If it is because of a stiffer sidewall (which is often the case), it can equate to quicker times, despite the weight penalty.

I don't know if the Tire rack specs are correct or not but it says that the AD08 weighs 19lb. vs. 26lb. for the RE-11 and Star Spec. Could be a pretty significant difference.

I don't know if the Tire rack specs are correct or not but it says that the AD08 weighs 19lb. vs. 26lb. for the RE-11 and Star Spec. Could be a pretty significant difference.
wow

my AD08's should arrive tomorrow, I'll try and weigh one (full tread) and compare it to my worn out Z1's... (225/45/17)

I don't know if the Tire rack specs are correct or not but it says that the AD08 weighs 19lb. vs. 26lb. for the RE-11 and Star Spec. Could be a pretty significant difference.Look a little harder and you'll see all the sizes are just filled with generic data and the correct data is pending.

Look a little harder and you'll see all the sizes are just filled with generic data and the correct data is pending.
*ding* - the tire rack people said on bimmerforums that they'll update the info when they get it.

Bridgestone is running a Rebate Program ... just got my 205/50/15 RE-11's ... delivered from The Tire Rack ... $525.76 ($45.76 shipping) ... but we get $100 back.

There is also an earlier thread on the GRM Test ...

Roadway tire is cheaper on RE-11's as of 4/09. I got a set of 245/50's for $802 shipped. There's a $100 rebate on them as well. I hate to bust on Tirerack but they wont price match.

^What in the world are u putting 245/50's on?

Roadway tire is cheaper on RE-11's as of 4/09. I got a set of 245/50's for $802 shipped. There's a $100 rebate on them as well. I hate to bust on Tirerack but they wont price match.

Rebate expired 4 days prior to post... :(

OK all. Final decision needs to be made:

$800 Stones, $600 Dunlops, $600 Kumho ????????????

Contingency? Stones.
Not fast enough for that? Dunlops.

Isn't the Stones $100 discount still going on?

We were disappointed with the feel of our new RE11's compared to the Dunlops. They have gotten better as they wore in ... seemed to take about 20 runs between my co-driver and myself. I still think the Dunlops feel more predicable and progressive at the limit. The Dunlops were terrific under braking ... the RE11's are starting to feel pretty good. But ... this is on a Miata. But local ST Champs like Max H and Rick J love their Dunlops and don't seem like they're going to change. You would think they would be going after Contingencies.

It seems to me from all the reports I've seen is that the Dunlops are good for heavier cars (2700lb+) and the stones for lighter cars ( < 2700 lbs)

--kC

Likely true ... I was surprised that our new RE11's sidewalls are a bit soft. Even in our Miata we were pumping them up to 39/36. I believe Andy Hollis has even been in the 40's with his light Civic. With the Dunlops we were using 35/32.

OK all. Final decision needs to be made:

$800 Stones, $600 Dunlops, $600 Kumho ????????????

Dunlops on your fatty!


my .02

OK all. Final decision needs to be made:

$800 Stones, $600 Dunlops, $600 Kumho ????????????

Giving up on the Toyos that easy!?!?

The choice is yours...im sure you have seen all the data and results thus far this year. Dunlops are proven, Stones and Kumho not so much. All 3 are def capable of being fast.

Because Colin did so poorly on soft Bridgestones last year. ;)

Well, he was on the stiffer RE-01Rs, but he has mentioned on this forum that he likes the RE-11s as well. But many of the drivers that have driven both have said the RE-11s are a little softer and not as sharp, but the overall grip is better.