I just picked up a spare USDM 2.0 Block for absolutely nothing today and I'm starting to dream up some builds, however I've never had to think about it at this point.

I'm not a drag racer at all and I'm interested in a responsive and durable motor. What is popular and why for this displacement ? Im looking to spool larger turbos (perhaps as large as a GT30R) with this with good respose with an overall goal of roughly ~350 - 400 whp

Will overboring help ? Will upping the compression ratio with forged internals help ? Is the compression ratio dependant on the piston or the connecting rod ? What do you suggest for headwork and cams?


Sorry for the broadness of my question, but I'm very open to any sort of suggestion at this time.

if you wanna run a 30R to be responsive, that means keeping the motor at high rpm's. So head work will be a needed given, as will a built block. I'd keep bore as minimal as possible for clynder wall strength OR sleeve it and take it to 96mm.
compression ratio does help spool too and responsiveness.

Address oiling as well...if you have any particular questions, feel free to PM/email me or just post in the thread.

Forged Internals and a 18G or VF22 will get you in the power range, but not the response. Get some V8 heads hook up the AVCS and get a big 16G. You will be just over 300hp but will have good response. And while your at it you might as well get the block turned into a full closed deck instead of semi-closed. And for compression I would say 8.5:1 is pretty standard and good. If you could make 8.75:1 you would be the prime zone for pump gas. And of course there is always stroking it, which helps on the low end. And compression ratio is dependent on a lot of things, piston shape, rod length, crank stroke, head gasket thickness, combustion chamber design and size amongst them.

But this is all my opinion on how to do the build, except the compression ratio factors.

I'm not really looking for a journal bearing turbo for this engine to be quite honest. I'll be focusing soully on response and acceleration , but I need more top end than a 16g can give me. Therefore I'll be looking into GT series turbo's or other ball bearing options, but making sure I dont select something too large to maintain the response I'm looking for. Im in the process of 16g'ing my stock 2.0L at the moment and riding that out for a while. This is a side project for a later time.

I was curious though, what kind of options do I have for good piston / con rod options ?
I have to have the block at least slightly overbored to correct a score in a wall of one of the cylinders.

Now what would be required to up the compression to say 8.5 utilizing the stock crank ? Is the stock crank up to hp levels of approximately 400whp if proper main and rod bearings are used (cosworth for example) ? Is it even possible to get that kind of compression changing only rods / pistons , or would the crank have to go ?

In response to Homemade, thanks for offering to help out with some information, makes my life alot easier and I'm sure I'll learn something.

How would you adress oiling issues ? Cosworth high volume pump's or something of that nature ? How expensive is it to sleeve a subaru block ? I dont want to make this a $100,000,000 dollar build, so im curious on some of my options.

Now onto the heads , should I pnp a set of stock wrx heads ? What kind of cam would you suggest? Should I be looking into oversize valves ?

Thanks again for your time guys!

PS: Can someone give me a referral to a known engine builder aswell ? I'd like to talk directly to them about things such as sleeving , boring honing etc.

im building my 2.0 as well and have gone through all the above. I ended up with forged 2618 je pistons with an 8.5:1 compression. I used eagle rods and acl race bearings. I also am hoping to spool a gt30 and get reasonably good response. Headwork is where its at. You will need cams and springs to reach the rpms you will need to make this work. Look up treystoys, japslpr, hectowrx, dug-e-fresh, and mikaust. they are all spooling big turbos with a 2.0 (although some with a jdm 2.0). As for oiling, I went with the 11mm oil pump from the 2008+ sti and extra clearance on the bearings. This way I can move more oil at the same pressure. The JDM 2.0s run the 10mm pump and cosworth makes an affordable 10mm pump. They also make an uber-expensive oil pump. Dont forget the fuel system!

From experience I can tell you this will be expensive and you need to spend alot of money on the heads. Good luck!

im building my 2.0 as we speak. biggest thing is getting enough oil. i am using the revised 2005 crank with the extra oil hole and the 10mm pump im hoping this will work well.
my build consists of 07 sti cams, v8 sti springs, bc valves +1mm on intake stand. on exhaust, then the block is acl race bearings, eagle rods, and wiseco pistons. ill be using arp head studs and a cometic head gasket .040 (builder recommends), and that will put my compression 8.8:1 from what the calculator i used is saying.

right now ill be using a t518z with the 8cm hotside hoping later to upgrade to a bigger turbo gt30 at least. hopes and dreams of a twinscroll.

good builders gruppe-s, raw performance, then there are a few local non big shots just depends on where you are from.

yes pnp heads are going to be a must with oversized valves itll help a lot. a lot of people are running 264s or 272s its up to you on how right you want your graph

you are getting a lot of good advice...one thing I will say is work on cooling the oil and getting a good pan too. Use the larger oil pan, not the small STi pan.

Also with the smaller bore and if you opt, run a longer rod (lots of great gains here for the high rpm motor) you can get some killer quench gains and take full advantage of higher CR. Look at the Spec C if you think I'm smoking crack...that or F1 engines.

Keep the suggestions and info coming if you don't mind guys, I'm compiling a list of things I'll need to put this together and I'll post it up when I'm done. Then if you guys don't mind we can review that and revise.

Thanks alot!

PS: Post some suggestions on good builders / machine shops. The first thing I have to do is rebore my block and get it ready for some pistons

don't touch the block until the pistons are in hand...

I've gotten tired of doing builds and machine work for people trying to rush things and then requiring backsteps or big PITA's to correct what rushing has caused...

Right I forgot that the bores should be done specifically when pistons are in hand.

What kind of turbo would you guys suggest I do with this sort of motor ? Keeping in mind I want a broad powerband.

Considdering :

Slightly overbored, approximately 8.5 : 1 compression forged pistons
PnP'd head's w/ STi Cams or some 264's
max of 8000 rpm redline

im in the process of the same thing, i have a block and im waiting to get a lil more money up before i dig to deep,i pretty much want the same thing, 400whp adn 8k redline, i have thought about the sti stroker kit, to make it a 2.1 but after much tought i think im goint to do with stock bore, all forged, and try to get 8.5-8.8-1 compressior so i have more power out of boost, which hopefully will limit the turbo lag, and i have thought about it, and i want mid and top end power, which has leans me more towards the 264's than the 272's but i still have more looking to do before i decide, and i agree with everyone else, get some bigger valves. and some good port work so you can hold that power all the way up to the high rpms, and not have any problems

What kind of turbo would you guys suggest I do with this sort of motor ? Keeping in mind I want a broad powerband.

Considdering :

Slightly overbored, approximately 8.5 : 1 compression forged pistons
PnP'd head's w/ STi Cams or some 264's
max of 8000 rpm redline

How broad of a powerband? I've seen the Tomei turbo (basically a TD05 20G) spool around 4K on a stock EJ207, and make power all the way through 8200.

Personally, I'd do a 30R of some type...it would narrow the powerband a bit, but be quite a bit stronger up top. Smaller cams (264's) would help with the low end/midrange, spool, and help keep the power through redline.

you should deffinatly look into twin scroll , there are thread on here of twinscrool gt30's spooling under 4k on motors, creating tons of power, i think full race has a gt35 the spools faster that a reg gt30 and produces alot more power

you should deffinatly look into twin scroll , there are thread on here of twinscrool gt30's spooling under 4k on motors, creating tons of power, i think full race has a gt35 the spools faster that a reg gt30 and produces alot more power

On 2.0's? That'd be sick.

I'll bet but have you seen the pricetag on some of the full race stuff ? WOW lol.

I've got some mild fab skills so i was thinking of making my own rotated mount turbo, but if you guys are saying 30R 's im extatic. I know what they can put out overall, I'm just hoping that I can maintain a useable powerband.

Would Sti cams be better for spooling up the turbo than some 264's ? Would oversized valves help spool or only hinder it ? Again, I'm not looking to break some WHP record with this motor, just have something very fast for the road course, while maintaining a strong 3700 rpm and up powerband.

i think 264's, not to much on what the size of the sti's would be, but i think the 264's are bigger, correct me if im wrong, but that would give you more midrange, which is daily driving, which is what mine will be for, and im just talkinga bout the turbo, they are expensive, i dont think i would go with there exhasut set up, but i do hear that there 1.5 scroll does add some nice gains with bigger turbos, it is roatated, did know if you wanted to go that route, but the gains would be tremendous, with a turbo of that size that can spool up under 4k, and you may look at the borge warner turbos, they have a s256 or something like that that is twin scroll and suposed to make mad power, but i think they may be oil only, not water cooled, you would have to look into it some more.


i am definitely subscribed since i need all the info i can get for my build pretty soon

I'll bet but have you seen the pricetag on some of the full race stuff ? WOW lol.

I've got some mild fab skills so i was thinking of making my own rotated mount turbo, but if you guys are saying 30R 's im extatic. I know what they can put out overall, I'm just hoping that I can maintain a useable powerband.

Would Sti cams be better for spooling up the turbo than some 264's ? Would oversized valves help spool or only hinder it ? Again, I'm not looking to break some WHP record with this motor, just have something very fast for the road course, while maintaining a strong 3700 rpm and up powerband.

A properly setup 30R can be very, very usable on a 2.0.

It's all in the design of the cams...going from my stock cams, which are roughly the same as the STi cams to larger ones, (Tomei cams) that aren't too large, I actually gained a lot of driveability and power down low, not to mention spool.

Oversized valves equate to more airflow, so that will only help. I have no doubts you can get what you're looking for with a cammed 30R setup. Keep in mind there is the GT3071R (47lb/min) and GT3076R (52lb/min), so there are options there as well.

would you guys recommend .62 for quicker spool with a setup like this or should i forget it and go with an .82

For a fast spooling big turbo on a EJ20, I'd run a twinscroll 30R....that's the easy part...
now for some crazy talk
for the heads, I'd do port work (of course) and oversize the intake valve but and for the exhaust valve, its sizing would pend flow numbers (stock or not). I'd run a shorter duration (relative), very agressive lift intake cam to try and help control the valve timing at TDC and BDC with the longer rod ratio. Then running a larger duration exhaust cam to help carry the top end rpm. The smaller duration intake cam but with lots of lift to help breath fresh air and close close to BDC, should help to reduce spool time.

Again this is all some crazy bizarre and off the cuff thinking...

Personally I love a bigger A/R on a smaller high rpm motor...once you get past the lag, the powerband is amazing!!

so wait, get a big lift shor duration intake then a big lift longer durations exhaust cam? do you have an example? 272 intake 264 exhaust?

again the twinscroll setups are just too much money for my budget. I will utilize a rotated mount 30r setup with everything possible heat wrapped and coated, but thats as far as I go. I think 8.5 : 1 comp with 264's and a rotated 30r driving a 6 speed would make a suitable time attack car for my needs.

The key is the redline I believe. I need something that can safely rev up to 8000k all day. What rods / pistons do you suggest as far as a bottom end that can take that kind of abuse ? can the stock crank deal with this kind of punishment ?

I think you may potentially be building something that will not meet your expectations. Typically a 2.0 + 400whp = a total dog in regards to spoolup and response. Most go with a 2.0 because they want lots of RPM, not spoolup and torque.

Comparing a 16g and .63 GT30R are two turbochargers that are worlds apart in characteristics. Also the reality is that ball bearing turbochargers do not spoolup any quicker than journal bearing turbochargers under any real world comparison so get that out of your head ;)

I would say you would be best off with a bolt-on turbocharger. A FP Green or our GT49 will hit 20 psi by about 4000-4200 rpm and will make 350-375 whp. A 30R rotated kit will likely not get there until 4600-4800 rpm. It sounds like you're on a reasonable budget so these will fill your needs. Now if you want to stretch your RPM to 8500-8800 rpm then a GT52 or a 30R will still give you a fat powerband.

Compression helps with spoolup but not as much as you think. It helps more with off boost acceleration and throttle response. Displacement and stroke are what really make the difference in spooling a turbocharger. For sub 400 whp you could use stock STi rods, Element Rods, etc which should fit within your budget, either STi cams or "STG2" type cams with valve springs, and 8.5:1 pistons. Keep in mind the stock cams will spool the turbocharger quickest.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

for that i say go with some forged rods, if you only looking for 400 maybe max 500 there is nothing wrong with eagle, and they are around 315 to your door, also there are some venders that have deals where you can get eagle rods, and wiesco pistons i think for lik 769 shipped which is a heck of a deal, those are great pistons by the way, i had them in a dirt track car and they handled that abuse they can take anyting. the crank will be ok, but you will want to get it cross drilled for better oiling, or see if you can find a V8 or V9 crank they are cross drilled, and nitride coated, and get some good bearing, i tink ACL is the brand that i have been looking at and have herd great things about

again the twinscroll setups are just too much money for my budget. I will utilize a rotated mount 30r setup with everything possible heat wrapped and coated, but thats as far as I go. I think 8.5 : 1 comp with 264's and a rotated 30r driving a 6 speed would make a suitable time attack car for my needs.

The key is the redline I believe. I need something that can safely rev up to 8000k all day. What rods / pistons do you suggest as far as a bottom end that can take that kind of abuse ? can the stock crank deal with this kind of punishment ?

That compression, and those cams will work well. Which 6-speed ratio will you be using?

The stock EJ207 seems to be able to take a hell of a lot of abuse, while revving to 8K. On a 205, I'd go with Wiseco pistons/Carillo rods...just my preference, that seems to work very well. I'm not too well versed on stock 2 liter cranks, but I know the stock crank from the STi can take a lot. I'd try and locate an EJ207 crank and have it cross drilled/nitride treated.

The additional oil holes in the JDM Spec C cranks are good and typically aftermarket cross drilling of the crank has caused nothing but problems due to the inability to maintain adequate oil pressure at high rpm. This has been a common issue and you can read about it as there is a thread many pages long on this forum.

No need to drill the crank or swap to the Spec C crank. As mentioned the OEM crank is fine as is, even to 8500 rpm (as long as you can maintain high oil pressure).

The quality of a "built" motor has more to do with the building process than it does the parts being used. The parts matter but even with great parts you can end up with a bad motor if it's not assembled to an optimal specification given it's usage.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

for that i say go with some forged rods, if you only looking for 400 maybe max 500 there is nothing wrong with eagle, and they are around 315 to your door, also there are some venders that have deals where you can get eagle rods, and wiesco pistons i think for lik 769 shipped which is a heck of a deal, those are great pistons by the way, i had them in a dirt track car and they handled that abuse they can take anyting. the crank will be ok, but you will want to get it cross drilled for better oiling, or see if you can find a V8 or V9 crank they are cross drilled, and nitride coated, and get some good bearing, i tink ACL is the brand that i have been looking at and have herd great things about

I agree with ACL for bearings too...didn't see your post before I made mine. :lol:

Compression helps with spoolup but not as much as you think. It helps more with off boost acceleration and throttle response. Displacement and a shorter rod ratio are what really make the difference in spooling a turbocharger.

fixed it for you....an all to unexplained and mis-spoken conception that is misleading to many. I do agree with everything else you've said though.

I'd personally build it to have a powerband from 4500-8500...30R with some healthy head/cam work. Or I can get you to have those high rpms with about 15% more displacement ;)


The quality for the build is what makes it reliable and last for the most part...the parts that are used can make all the difference in how that powerband looks...and if you use crappy parts, well you get what you paid for. I've personally seen too many failed eagle rods, both import and domestic.

I'm also doing a 2.0 build, well sort of. All of this has been recommended to me, so I don't take credit for the plans. I'm doing an ej207 short block but only because I can get a really good deal on one, an ej205 will work just fine from what I'm told. I'm planning on rotated, not sure whether I'm doing a 30r or 35r just yet. I'd love to do twinscroll but I don't know who to go with on that. They're so f'ing expensive. Either way, even without twinscroll I should be able to spool a 30r by early to mid 4s and power all the way to at least 8k. I almost went with a 2.5 hybrid until I talked to someone about a stroker and I'm very glad I did. So far everything I've read has said stroker for the win. If I was on a budget I'd do sti cams, 1mm over valves, sti crank, good rods, good pistons, 12mm pump, and a decent turbo. That'd give you the stroke to spool, good internals, and good power.

My build:
ej207 short block
Better crank, same stroke as an STI, just better oiling (turns it into a 2.12 liter or something like that)
Slightly longer rods
JE pistons (IIRC around 8.5:1, depending on a few things)
ej205 heads (so I can reuse all my stuff)
Ported exhaust ports on the heads
1mm oversized valves
Don't know exact cams yet, probably something around a 272
STI buckets to get rid of the shims
Springs, retainers, etc
12mm oil pump with the guts polished so it doesn't stick
ACL bearings
Regular WRX oil pan
All OEM gaskets etc.

Oh and if the builder wants to speak up I'll let him. I don't want to put his name in here in case I said something stupid or so he doesn't get 10,000 PMs about it. I'm sure he'll post if he wants to give advice.

see i thought about that, basicly most people just use sti crank, sti rod length cut its a touch longer, and special pistons, my thing is i dont know how much pistons are so i have shyed away from it, but that is what got me started about this build in the first place

The pistons I'm looking at are custom made by JE. They have all the coatings and bells and whistles. You can get them custom made for pretty much whatever you want. I think they'll end up being about $750-$800. You can get some for cheaper than that I'd imagine.

yea, see that was the problem with going the route, i think there is another brand that makes them now that has the special ones for it, i know weisco makes them for the EJ22 with sti crank and rods

The pistons I'm looking at are custom made by JE. They have all the coatings and bells and whistles. You can get them custom made for pretty much whatever you want. I think they'll end up being about $750-$800. You can get some for cheaper than that I'd imagine.

yes, the piston prices pend on what rings and pins you choose too ;)

who would i contact to start getting some pricing?

Find a motor builder in your area if you want one. Maxwell Propulsion is who is building my block and giving me guidance. If you definitely want a 2.0 and are thinking possibly about doing stroker I'd give Maxwell Propulsion a call. There are so many benefits to the stroker, I think it'll be a really strong motor. Search and give him a call and he can give you the run down on all the cool stuff. They keep the great top end of the 2.0 but you get a fully built motor that, because of the stroke, will spool a turbo almost as well as a 2.5.

yea i deffinatly will look around and call and see what i can find out, i plan on getting the internals balanced at a shop down the road that does great work, the do alot of the drag cars around here, and they said they can balance they rotating assimbly to within .001 or a gram for about 200-250 so i deff want that, and i plan on running a vf37 with a complete work out and 20g wheel by deadbolt, atleast to start. i think i will have to look around for my 1st gear with the lowend power that 2.1 with the high compression will be making. thanks for all the info keep us updated on how things go, i am going to try to keep a write up with pics and all for mine, may post on here or scoobymods

Max Propulsions is my good buddy Dom, which he and I do the same things but now he's in Washington and I'm in Virginia...We actually typically end up discussing customer builds and share benefits, tips and new designs with one another ;)

So Dom will definately have you taken care of it you go to him. For my customers I design each piston based on head (combustion chamber voluem and shape) and what compression height (rod and stroke options) and then order them...options for coatings from JE, Swaintech or WPC treatment (only for the skirts and pins of pistons).

sounds sweet, the one thing is that im trying to do this on somwhat of a budget

hope your budget is around 5k

about 2k and i bet i cak keep it under 2500, my friends works at a shop and does porting and polishing and such

well it sounds like you have a plan...good luck to you....contact maperformance for parts...they got me really good deals and free shipping

Really labor and machine stuff does cost a lot. For parts you can stay decently cheap if you try. STI crank, rods, pistons, and bearings for the short block plus whatever machine work. Cams and if you can afford them valves and retainers and stuff. It really depends on how much you can reuse.

pistons for a 2.1 need to be custom, as far as I know...is there a supplier of them for those doing a lower cost build?

i thought there was, i thought i saw them on one of the threads here, i will look around and see what i can find

pistons for a 2.1 need to be custom, as far as I know...is there a supplier of them for those doing a lower cost build?

Oh sorry, my post came out wrong. I didn't mean to use STI rods and pistons. I was just saying for a low budget he could use the STI crank, and then some aftermarket rods and pistons. The STI pistons definitely wouldn't work AFAIK.

from what i have read you could use the 2.5 crank forged 2.5 sti length rods, and forged pistons that are the same as the 2.5 just 92mm instead of 99.5, because you will need the wrist pin closer to the top of the piston

I'm going to have a set of forged pistons from an ej207 really soon that I won't be using. I wonder if those would work on your block. They are just the stock forged ej207 pistons. The block is being split because it has rod knock but the pistons and holes should be ok. I wonder if reusing is a no-no or if they'd be ok. If they'd work I'll make it even more likely that you'll meet your budget :P.

well if you dont mind, could you take some pictures and send them to me, i dont know where they take the measurement from though, also i hear that 207 has a higher compression ratio, like 8.7 or something, i wounder if that is from the pistons if so, i could just use those and some new rods and that might make exactly what i want

Cool. I don't have the block yet and I don't know exactly what's causing the knock. According to the seller it's very minor, though. The last block I split that had knock had spun 3 bearings. If it's something like that again then the pistons should be fine. I'll let you know when I get them, they could save you some serious money. You can get a new STI crank for I think around $350 and then just some rods and the bottom end would be good. I'll include wrist pins and rings with the pistons too, if you take them. I don't need them.

cool, and even if it wont work, i can just use then and build a 2.0, but i do know someone that can cut pistons, he does like relief cuts for valves and stuff, depending how much metal need taken off and how much is there i may be able to trim some off, maybe homemade can get me a measurement of what i would need, if he will give that info out, so i will know what the measurement has to be, also can i ask where you got the block? just the classifieds? if i could find one, i would have the stronger block, but it would probably cost to much

hey homemade, you were wondering if they make off the shelf pistons for the sti stroker kit, well i was informed a minute ago

"You need pretty much ANY 2.5 crank (79mm throw) and matching rods. Then get custom 2.0 pistons. There are off the shelf stroker pistons by Mahle for sure (have used them myself) and Arias (have them) and I think Wiseco."

by Reddevil, im asking him if he knows any part numbers, if he does it will make it much easier ad cheaper

hey huge question for ya, does your 2.0 have crank and rods and pistons? i have a 2.5l block that needs a line bore in my garage and all the internals... but here is the thought. take a 2.5l and put the 2.0 internals in there and have a 2.3l and rev to the world. then sell the 2.0 short block casing or scrape it at a junkyard. that would be an awesome set up! oh yes and get some head work done. but my build is no where near 2500, in total i have dropped 9300 in my car since i got it in june, but my engine build alone between block and heads its costed me right at 3900

the one thing wrong with that is the bore on the 2.5 is 99.5, the bore on the 2.0 is 92mm, whis means you would have to get diff pistons, i have read about tha but dont know how to make it work but also you would have such a big quench area between the piston cap and cylinder head, you would havelike a 2.0-1 compression ratio but i know somewhere it can be done

hmm there is a guy on here that runs it. its amazing! but that is true. hmm well i have the internals if you want/need em, though the crank has one scared journal from the thrown bearing.
either way you are looking at different or custom pistons.
i think the biggest thing is just get a good solid short block and the biggest thing is your heads with some larger valves and a higher rpm band.

either way with a 2.0 being able to rev to 8k and the turbo spools at 4k thats 4k of turbo or a 2.5l that revs to 7k but yet turbo spools at 3 or 3500 thats 4k-3500 rpm of boost.

I have designed all the parts for that 2.35 to work properly with the correct quench height...not sitting 2mm in the hole with drastically lower compression ratio numbers ;)

you have done it all, i am coming to find you are a great source for knowledge on here,



thats what im hoping 8k on a 2.1L it will be great pulling all the way up, aslong as i get it all balanced right, i guess this will be close to my dream of a jdm V7 sti lol this one will be leagal

you have done it all, i am coming to find you are a great source for knowledge on here,

well, I wouldn't say that by any means...those that I haven't done, I've done a lot of reading and number crunching on...

I use to get bored in class or work and would work out different specs, dimensions and then pro and cons for different motors. From that brief selection, more in-depth work started...and then motor builds from the best of those worked out on the computer.

see thats how i am, between here and scooby mods, which in about 8 months i have become one of the top people, i have always had facinations with engine, been working on them since i could remember, and im always thinking of ways to make things the best, and design new stuff, i have been looking into this for about as long as i have had my car

ok well i looked into and found the mahle, weisco, and aeris stroker pistons, mahle and weisco run the same price as regular ones, but weigh less, i think the weisco are 331grams, but for some reason the weisco do not come with coating on rings, but it you look at the pistons for the older 2.0 they come in a 92.5 (.020 bore) for stroker they are coated and with rings, looks like im going to give them a call and ask them about it, and how much extra to get coated, and get the rings for it.

thought this would be cool to help people who dont know figure out what there engine displacement will be

http://www.tunercalcs.com/displacement-from-bore-and-stroke.html

Even though they don't come with coatings are you said, I am a huge fan of Wiseco pistons...just a lot of good results locally.

yea thats what im leaning towards, and at 469.99 with free shipping, i dont think i can really pass that up, but no rings is what gets me? how you sell a piston with no rings

Even though they don't come with coatings are you said, I am a huge fan of Wiseco pistons...just a lot of good results locally.

And I hate them from an engine building perspective...that and I don't like the aluminum/forging they use.
Every set of Wisecos that I've had to use in a build have required noticable more grinding to balance piston weights. On a current build, I had to stop trying to balance the pistons because they were that far out...Wisecos are pretty much last on my buy list.


Of the three companies you mentioned, Mahle would get my money. Reallistically Nick Diblassi @ JE would be getting a call and a fax with my custom piston order...

ok in that case maybe i will be going with mahle, expecialy if they have rings and the option of coating, also, it supprises me that JE doesnt make the piston and a ready to sell instead of a custom one, i was thinking back in like 03 or something when they first did this build and found out about it, they used JE.

cool, and even if it wont work, i can just use then and build a 2.0, but i do know someone that can cut pistons, he does like relief cuts for valves and stuff, depending how much metal need taken off and how much is there i may be able to trim some off, maybe homemade can get me a measurement of what i would need, if he will give that info out, so i will know what the measurement has to be, also can i ask where you got the block? just the classifieds? if i could find one, i would have the stronger block, but it would probably cost to much

Yeah I got it from a vendor actually, DS1 motorsports. They sold me an assembled ej207 short block for $500. It has rod knock but the block itself should be good, which is all I'm after. It's shipping today or Monday so I should have it soon. I was going to go ej205 but brand new they're about $800 and I didn't want to go used if I was going ej205.

Yeah I got it from a vendor actually, DS1 motorsports. They sold me an assembled ej207 short block for $500. It has rod knock but the block itself should be good, which is all I'm after. It's shipping today or Monday so I should have it soon. I was going to go ej205 but brand new they're about $800 and I didn't want to go used if I was going ej205.

Great guys to work with...see a lot of good 207 builds from them too.

Yeah I talked to him for a few minutes and he said they actually just built a stroker for someone last week. They won't be doing any of my build but I'm at least buying the block from them. They are good friends with the guy I bought a lot of my sti drivetrain from, too. I'm really happy I got that block, I think a stroked ej207 is something you don't see a lot of and should be a really solid and fun build. So many new questions though, it's about time for a new thread.

lol wow i will have to talk to them, i would really rather have a 207, it may much my build back because of the extra cost, and i know its basicly just a 205 with extra support, but then if i decided to go for like say 500-600whp it could handle it, who did you speak with if you dont mine, and do you have a number i can contact them at?

bring on the new tread,

This is sweet, I like that there are a few of us doing these. There's really not much information on them, not as much as a hybrid or something like that. I'm learning a ton from everyone and it's turning into a great project.

DS1's website is http://www.ds1motorsports.com/. They have contact info on there. I bought the only shortblock he had, but when I talked to him he said he had an ej207 long block that had something wrong with it. He's going to take it apart so you might call him to see if you can get the shortblock from that one. He sells the heads separate for quite a bit because they're such good heads, so you can probably get just the short block. I actually searched ej207 in the classifieds and found a post from a couple of months ago where he was trying to sell the shortblock I bought on sale and no one ever picked it up for some reason. With how hyped up the ej207 is I thought for sure someone would have jumped on it. Either way, give him a call and see if he'll have that shortblock out and you can hopefully grab it from him.

lol wow i will have to talk to them, i would really rather have a 207, it may much my build back because of the extra cost, and i know its basicly just a 205 with extra support, but then if i decided to go for like say 500-600whp it could handle it, who did you speak with if you dont mine, and do you have a number i can contact them at?

bring on the new tread,

Just give Dylan a call...number, as posted above, is on the site.

alright i will deff look into it, if i can ever get the stuff i have for sale sold i will be able to start buying parts sooner, and i wonder if he would be willing to sell just the block, i will ask, there was a guy not far from me had a 207 that he was selling for 150, because where the oil filter goes the stud it screwed on to broke off, but said he had a guy that would make one for 100, i will look back into that too

here are the options for pistons
http://www.importperformanceparts.net/imports/mahlepowpak-subaru.html
http://www.importperformanceparts.net/imports/wisecopistons_subaru.html

i just called mahle and they were very helpful, the gentleman that answered the phone was more that willing to look up all my questions, he gave me the part number for the 2618 alloy, he recommended that if you are going to push over 25psi to go with that instear of the 4032, the part number is SUB193642T16 make sure you tell them the T16 not I16 they dont have any in stock but will around the begining of the year, they are also coated and come with rings, so i will be going with mahle since weisco are not coated and do not have rings, he also said run about .003-.0035 clearance, which when the coating wears off will be .0035-.004, which yes will give you piston slap at start up, but once the engine gets warm will go away

Comparing a 16g and .63 GT30R are two turbochargers that are worlds apart in characteristics. Also the reality is that ball bearing turbochargers do not spoolup any quicker than journal bearing turbochargers under any real world comparison so get that out of your head ;)

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com (http://www.elementtuning.com)


Thanks for all of your info Phil its pretty helpful, but I always thought Ball Bearing turbo's did spool quicker than journal bearing. Could you shed some light ? What is the true benefit of bb turbo's then ? does boost come on faster after having to lift ? (I.E Between shifts) Any other pro's and cons ?

Perhaps I'm looking into turbo's that are too large for my purpose though. I am looking for a responsive car and I do realize I would be better off using a 2.5L block. However I dont really need MASSIVE power. Maybe I should start looking at smaller turbos like 20g' Green, etc.


Thanks again for all the reply's keep em coming!

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