I searched so if it's a repost I apologize.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/12/12/aa.collector.cars.future/index.html

The STi hatch won't be a collector car, neither will a lot of the cars on that list.

^You can say that all you want, but I bet few people thought that Oldsmobile or Buick would have collector cars. There's only so many Sti's being built so stock one's will be worth some money in 30 or so years, just like the Supra's, RX-7's, and NSX's are right now.

A 2004 STi, no mods, low miles will be a collectable for sure.

good. when my unmolested 08 is older i will have something worth selling

I agree with everything on that list except for the S5.

The STi hatch won't be a collector car, neither will a lot of the cars on that list.

Yeah.. just like the Nomad didn't become a collectors car. :rolleyes:

The STi hatch won't be a collector car, neither will a lot of the cars on that list.

:unamused:

Dodge Charger Superbee? :lol:

I think very few cars on that list will actually be "collectible". Low production numbers alone does not a collectible car make.

I agree with everything on that list except for the S5.


Totally agree, if any Audi would make that list, I'd say TT or R8, the TT was the only car in the lineup that has any semblence of a soul or following, even the S line went to bankers and lawyers instead of enthusiasts for the majority of cars sold.

But at the rate that STI's are dropping off the radar thanks to impounds, confiscations, thefts, strips, accidents, etc., I'm pretty sure the STI will be on the endangered list pretty soon.

A 2004 STi, no mods, low miles will be a collectable for sure.

:rolleyes:

Totally agree, if any Audi would make that list, I'd say TT or R8, the TT was the only car in the lineup that has any semblence of a soul or following, even the S line went to bankers and lawyers instead of enthusiasts for the majority of cars sold.

Yup. Replace the S5 with an R8 for sure.

I think the list should read more like this:
(These are all current production cars, excluding $100k+ cars)

Ford Mustang Bullit
VW GTI (A pioneer of the dual clutch movement)
Challenger SRT8
Solstice GXP
STI w/ BBS (Why the **** did they offer it w/o?!)
Evo MR
1 Series (say what you want!)
Z06, ZR1
GTR
Porsche Cayman S
Z71 Suburban (Do you really think these will be around in 30 years?!:lol:)

To be honest we will never know untill 30 years from now. I doubt the people who bought a 240Z back in the day thought that it would be a collector car a few decades later

Dodge Charger Superbee? :lol:

I think very few cars on that list will actually be "collectible". Low production numbers alone does not a collectible car make.
You missed something if you think the only thing those cars had going for them was low production numbers.

I'd expect all the EVOs and STis to be collectors, but we'll see.

I think the list should read more like this:
(These are all current production cars, excluding $100k+ cars)

Ford Mustang Bullit
VW GTI (A pioneer of the dual clutch movement)
Challenger SRT8
Solstice GXP
STI w/ BBS (Why the **** did they offer it w/o?!)
Evo MR
1 Series (say what you want!)
Z06, ZR1
GTR
Porsche Cayman S
Z71 Suburban (Do you really think these will be around in 30 years?!:lol:)


i don't think the bullitt's of today will be worth much in the future. the '00 cobra r had much more going for it and it's not even doing very well for resale value. now, it's only been about 8 years but still. the '95 r's have seen some increase in value but that could be because you needed to be an official racer to be able to get one at the time.

the current bullitt's and mach's have their neet pieces (suspension, cobra motor in the mach, etc) but i'm not sure they have the ability to become a collectors item in the future.

the KR may have that potential but it would definitely take 30 years to get any kind of roi considering the mark ups that dealers were putting on them.

^ I was strictly thinking of current production cars. No doubt the R's and such will be collectables.

:rolleyes:

I'm sorry. "and beyond!" will be "the car".

^You can say that all you want, but I bet few people thought that Oldsmobile or Buick would have collector cars. There's only so many Sti's being built so stock one's will be worth some money in 30 or so years, just like the Supra's, RX-7's, and NSX's are right now.

http://www.fquick.com/images/articles/2621.jpg


Every once in awhile, a car company creates something special. The U.S. version of the STi? Perhaps...

I like the '04.

No way is the Bullshi..err, bullit on that list. It's a poorly re-hashed remake of an original. It has what? 10 extra hp for 3grand more? Yay!

You can't trust CNN for car related ANYTHING. The only thing news companies (except for Fox) are good for is liberal propagandist bull****

You can't trust CNN for car related ANYTHING. The only thing news companies (except for Fox) are good for is liberal propagandist bull****.
Thanks, Rupert.

The STi hatch won't be a collector car, neither will a lot of the cars on that list.

If Subaru gives up on the currently body style for 2010: I'll bet money it will :)

You can't trust CNN for car related ANYTHING. The only thing news companies (except for Fox) are good for is liberal propagandist bulls-h-i-t.

I'm not really a political person but hell yeah to this :D

hatchback collectible, that alittle hard to believe!

I think you guys are missing the point.

collector car

In 20+ years, people aren't going to buy an 04 or 08 STi and do a frame up restoration so they can take them to car shows and display them in garages. That is what a collector car is, something that has a lot a value and is almost too valuable to drive.

I totally believe that they will be desirable and people will want them, especially if performance goes the way of the dodo in 30 years.
People will buy them as a cheap fun car to drive, but not a collector car.

In 20 years our STis will be about like Dodge GLHs. You'll never see an STi selling for more than its original sticker price.

I can see a 04 STI stock (including radio delete) with low miles making some money down the road. I can also see the 07's (both limited and regular) sti's bringing some money as they were the last of the "boyish" styling so to speak. Other then that and maybe a handful of the yellow bugeye's that werent sold in masses might be worth something.

You can't trust CNN for car related ANYTHING. The only thing news companies (except for Fox) are good for is liberal propagandist bulls-h-i-t.

:lol::lol::lol:

Yeah, gotta have at lease one to spew out conservative propagandist garbage.

I think you guys are missing the point.

collector car

In 20+ years, people aren't going to buy an 04 or 08 STi and do a frame up restoration so they can take them to car shows and display them in garages. That is what a collector car is, something that has a lot a value and is almost too valuable to drive.

I totally believe that they will be desirable and people will want them, especially if performance goes the way of the dodo in 30 years.
People will buy them as a cheap fun car to drive, but not a collector car.

In 20 years our STis will be about like Dodge GLHs. You'll never see an STi selling for more than its original sticker price.


I agree with you for the most part(like 98%). The 04 STi if kept in great shape and low miles and all that junk could be worth at least very close to MSRP. It was said to be the best kept secret in automotive history up to its unvieling. All STi numbers released before Detroit were for the JDM car. No one expected 300/300. I remember the ooohs and aaahs and the flashes as those numbers came out of his mouth.

All those saying USDM, 04 STI is special and will become collectors car because it's 04 are on crack. A strong one.

Everything about it is worse than 05-07. Weaker wheel bearings, crappy wheel lug pattern, narrower wheels, less reliable synchros, weird gearing, worse DCCD controller, poorly performing suretrac front diff, weak rear clutch diff....

All those saying USDM, 04 STI is special and will become collectors car because it's 04 are on crack. A strong one.

Everything about it is worse than 05-07. Weaker wheel bearings, crappy wheel lug pattern, narrower wheels, less reliable synchros, weird gearing, worse DCCD controller, poorly performing suretrac front diff, weak rear clutch diff....

thats why i dont buy it either..

All those saying USDM, 04 STI is special and will become collectors car because it's 04 are on crack. A strong one.

Everything about it is worse than 05-07. Weaker wheel bearings, crappy wheel lug pattern, narrower wheels, less reliable synchros, weird gearing, worse DCCD controller, poorly performing suretrac front diff, weak rear clutch diff....


04 was unique though. 05-07 share interiors, STi emblems, and that little rear "fender flare". I am sure I am missing something. IF it were to become a collector car, the 04s uniqueness wins out. That or the limited 07.

The 2004 STi won many awards including the Readers Choice award in Road & Track, beating the Porsche GT3. It was the long anticipated first STi in the USA. The 2004 model broke boundaries and raised the bar. Weather it has a "crappy lug pattern" as a collectable won't matter. This was the model year that was on every car magazine cover in 2004. As a collectable, the fact that Subaru offered more/better standard features on the STi since 2004 is moot. Of course they did as most cars evolve. As a collectable too, it must have low miles and be stock. It will not be a daily driver at all and the less than performance it may have from newer years will not matter.........of course this is just my opinion as I can't see the future.

The fact they put the SMART on that list disqualifies the list. Are Honda CRX and Chevy Chevettes desirable as collectibles. Yes, for 2-3k for a mint condition. The whole concept is wacked. Anything is collectible. Valuable is another story. Desirable another.

The 2004 STi won many awards including the Readers Choice award in Road & Track, beating the Porsche GT3. It was the long anticipated first STi in the USA. The 2004 model broke boundaries and raised the bar. Weather it has a "crappy lug pattern" as a collectable won't matter. This was the model year that was on every car magazine cover in 2004. As a collectable, the fact that Subaru offered more/better standard features on the STi since 2004 is moot. Of course they did as most cars evolve. As a collectable too, it must have low miles and be stock. It will not be a daily driver at all and the less than performance it may have from newer years will not matter.........of course this is just my opinion as I can't see the future.

My 05 LGT MT wagon is far more unique than any year STI! :lol:

Keep the faith, old wagons are the rage now.

My 05 LGT MT wagon is far more unique than any year STI! :lol:

+1

I would love to buy a new one for my wife but they are not made any more. Bone head move Subaru!

Keep the faith, old wagons are the rage now.

:lol: I don't expect mine to become collectible. However, I bought a spare one just in case.

In 2030 if there are any 2008's that still have paint left on the sides, they'll be worth MILLIONS !!! :D

What's interesting is, most luxury or higher end cars don't retain there value over time. The cars people want, are the cars they didn't or couldn't get when they were younger.

So I would disagree with most of the cars on the list except the STI as well as the Evo (which should be on the list). Also, believe it or not, I think there will be a collectors market for the SRT4, Integra Type R, and possibly the last 3 generations of the M3 (the current one will not be hot later). Basically cars that are targeted to a younger crowd with a price tag to match.

Paint on a Subaru is too crappy for one to ever be collectible.

One other thing to remember, the STi wasn't some revolutionary car in 2004. It was not some new car that no one had ever seen. We got excited about the 04 STi because they brought it to the US. The rest of world doesn't care about our 2004 STi.

One other thing to remember, the STi wasn't some revolutionary car in 2004. It was not some new car that no one had ever seen. We got excited about the 04 STi because they brought it to the US. The rest of world doesn't care about our 2004 STi.

Are a lot collector cars sold to overseas buyers?

I absolutely think that Japanese cars, including Imprezas, can be collector's cars in the future. It isn't common now, but yeah I can see it later on.

What it comes down to is how many people are committed enough to keeping and maintaining a car for 25 years. :)

The problem I see is not if the car is good. The problem is that who in their forties is going to look back and say, boy those souped up econo boxes were the ****, I always wanted one. I think I will go find one. Also, since the youth lust after them now, most are beat to death, so finding that pristine garage queen is not going to be easy. That may lead to some increased value but I think the guy that finds one will be looking to mod it, just like the Supras. That is what makes them have value, the tuners know they can make huge power with them.

I would think that the older RS's would be more collectible in the long run. Fewer made, here before the pocket rocket craze really took off with the '02 WRX, etc.

That's not to say that either one will be hugely collectible.

What about the bi-turbo S4, 2000-2002. That was an amazing car (since I owned one myself). That was an amazing car for the enthusiast!!

The big problem with cars like the bi-turbo S4 is that while they're collectible for someone wealthy enough to keep them running, they'll never be popular among the lower middle class because of all the rare proprietary parts.

One of the reason we believe the current crops of Subarus and Evos will be so popular down the road is the incredible mix of available parts, ease to repair and widespread adoration.
I would think that the older RS's would be more collectible in the long run. Fewer made, here before the pocket rocket craze really took off with the '02 WRX, etc.

That's not to say that either one will be hugely collectible.

I'm disappointed to see them selling so cheaply right now, especially since I own one. It had seemed like their value had stalled for a few years, but then it started dropping again. Even unique moderately powered cars like the 2.5RS will not fare well when there is a horsepower war going on. It's really frustrating because in many situations.. my RS is just as fast as, or faster than, my WRX (tight autocross, twisty backroad, etc).. but most people would rather buy a beat-to-hell '02 WRX than a '01 2.5RS in good shape. :unamused:

Seriously, folks.. if you've got the choice and you want a sporty car, pick the RS. It doesn't feel as fast but it is when things get technical, thanks to the throttle response and impressively flat torque curve. Drag racers should just buy a Mustang, IMO.

weird gearing, worse DCCD controller, poorly performing suretrac front diff, weak rear clutch diff....

1. The wierd gearing? How about all the other STis that came with the same gearing?

2. Yes, the DCCD controller has been improved slightly over the years. Wouldn't you expect them to do that?

3. Poorly performing suretrac? It does the same damn thing that the newer helical front diffs do! You get on the throttle, it applies lock, you let off the throttle it unlocks.

4. Weaker rear clutch diff? What? Since when?

The only really legitmate problem you posted was the weak wheel bearings. At the end of the day the '04 STi is just as fast as all the rest. So just how important are all these little nit picks?

The STi hatch won't be a collector car, neither will a lot of the cars on that list.


Epic Fail.

1. The wierd gearing? How about all the other STis that came with the same gearing?

This was comparision to all 04-07. 07 *and 08-09) has a better gearing. 04-06 is JDM short ratio gearing with mismatched taller 5-6.


3. Poorly performing suretrac? It does the same damn thing that the newer helical front diffs do! You get on the throttle, it applies lock, you let off the throttle it unlocks.

Helical performs better, 05+ STIs understeer less than 04. Suretrac supposedly is the culprit. It does not work as smooth as helical unit.


4. Weaker rear clutch diff? What? Since when?


Again reference to 07 that came with much superior Torsen. The stock clutch lsd according to rally builders experts (Rallispec) is set up very mildly in stock form.

This was comparision to all 04-07. 07 *and 08-09) has a better gearing. 04-06 is JDM short ratio gearing with mismatched taller 5-6.

Ok, so how does that make the '04's gearing "wierd" when several other production years come with it?


Helical performs better, 05+ STIs understeer less than 04. Suretrac supposedly is the culprit. It does not work as smooth as helical unit.

Have you actually driven either of these cars in anger before? Do you know what happens in my '04 when I push the pedal through the floor coming out of a turn? The car rotates, big time. If you're not quick with the counter steer you have to go straight to opposite lock to reign it in, or you're going to loop it.

The '04 STi does not have an understeer problem that has anything to do with the front differential. If anything it might actually be a tad too tail happy on the throttle.

The "understeer" that people sense in the STi when hitting the throttle isn't understeer at all. When the front differential applies lock the car wants to go in a straight line because it's reducing the front axles ability to rotate at separate speeds. All you have to do is turn the steering wheel more and keep your foot on the throttle. The Suretrac works *extremely* well.


Again reference to 07 that came with much superior Torsen. The stock clutch lsd according to rally builders experts (Rallispec) is set up very mildly in stock form.

So what you're actually saying is that the '04, '05, and '06 STi's are all crap because the '07 came with revised gearing (that isn't faster at the drag strip) and a different rear differential?

The only thing you've said that I strongly agree with are the wheel bearings. Otherwise the '04 is just as strong, fast, and entertaining as all the rest. If anything the '04's might even be the most entertaining because they're the most oversteery of the bunch due to it's marginally less sophisticated DCCD system and rear biased torque split.

Think whatever you want. Based on the fairly long list of improvements in later years, I'd stay away from 04 if I was in the market for GD STI.

Are a lot collector cars sold to overseas buyers?

It depends on what model of car. European collectors are not interested in American muscle cars which are the current rage in the USA. But they do like
pre 1973 Porsche 911s and 356s and even VWs from the 50s and 60s since these cars rusted away to nothing if they had been kept in Europe. British sports cars from the USA are very popular in England and are seen as something of a bargain even after shipping due to the value of the dollar to the pound and euro.

In May of this year, in an auction at the Ferrari factory, actor James Coburn's former 1961 Ferrari 250 GT SWB Spyder California sold for $10,894,400. Like I said, depends on what model of car.

The problem I see is not if the car is good. The problem is that who in their forties is going to look back and say, boy those souped up econo boxes were the ****, I always wanted one. I think I will go find one. Also, since the youth lust after them now, most are beat to death, so finding that pristine garage queen is not going to be easy. That may lead to some increased value but I think the guy that finds one will be looking to mod it, just like the Supras. That is what makes them have value, the tuners know they can make huge power with them.

This is was the case, then why are the muscle cars from the '60's worth so much money?

Think whatever you want. Based on the fairly long list of improvements in later years, I'd stay away from 04 if I was in the market for GD STI.

You're right, I would too... because the wheel bearings suck and in order to fix the problem you have to buy a lot of parts. I got a whopping two track days out of mine before I had to do something about them. Otherwise the '04 model is a solid car.

The problem I see is not if the car is good. The problem is that who in their forties is going to look back and say, boy those souped up econo boxes were the ****, I always wanted one. I think I will go find one. Also, since the youth lust after them now, most are beat to death, so finding that pristine garage queen is not going to be easy. That may lead to some increased value but I think the guy that finds one will be looking to mod it, just like the Supras. That is what makes them have value, the tuners know they can make huge power with them.

If this was true. Then why are muscle cars from the '60's worth so much money?

I'm disappointed to see them selling so cheaply right now, especially since I own one. It had seemed like their value had stalled for a few years, but then it started dropping again. Even unique moderately powered cars like the 2.5RS will not fare well when there is a horsepower war going on. It's really frustrating because in many situations.. my RS is just as fast as, or faster than, my WRX (tight autocross, twisty backroad, etc).. but most people would rather buy a beat-to-hell '02 WRX than a '01 2.5RS in good shape. :unamused:

Seriously, folks.. if you've got the choice and you want a sporty car, pick the RS. It doesn't feel as fast but it is when things get technical, thanks to the throttle response and impressively flat torque curve. Drag racers should just buy a Mustang, IMO.

Yeah, I sold mine and miss it. The speed3 is fun, but the RS had more soul.

Honestly, though, it's as good of a candidate for being collectible as the STi/I if not moreso. It was out there before the pocket rockets really got here. They say that the WRX created this subcompact revolution of sorts, but the RS set the foundation for the WRX.

If this was true. Then why are muscle cars from the '60's worth so much money?

You want the simple answer? Because a considerable number of middle aged geezers in their 50s and 60s (ie baby boomers) say they are and back it up with large amounts of disposable income. The complicated answer involves psychology and nostalgia and gazing back fondly on an era (the 60s) which in reality really wasn't the nirvana it's made out to be. I know since I am one of those geezers but don't care about muscle cars or reliving my youth. Once was enough. Are they worth the money? I don't know. Obviously they are to the people that buy them. How do you quantify or place value on recapturing your youth or reliving (through the much distorted perspective of time) your past ?

You want the simple answer? Because a considerable number of middle aged geezers in their 50s and 60s (ie baby boomers) say they are and back it up with large amounts of disposable income. The complicated answer involves psychology and nostalgia and gazing back fondly on an era (the 60s) which in reality really wasn't the nirvana it's made out to be. I know since I am one of those geezers but don't care about muscle cars or reliving my youth. Once was enough. Are they worth the money? I don't know. Obviously they are to the people that buy them. How do you quantify or place value on recapturing your youth or reliving (through the much distorted perspective of time) your past ?

I know that has a lot to do with it, but I think that maybe a big part of it is more simple... people may simply like the look and feel of the old cars compared to the newer ones they might be inclined to purchase as fair weather weekend toys.

The STi hatch won't be a collector car, neither will a lot of the cars on that list.

Epic Fail.:rolleyes:

Did you even read the article? The original article talks about the hatch being the collector version. The thread is talking more about the 04 and some of the classic STis.


My thoughts on muscle car collectibles...
One reason folks are in love with the muscle cars is that until recently, there was no modern equivalent. A huge engine in a stripped down car is hard to find nowadays. I totally agree with what was posted above, nostalgia has a lot to do with it. Older guys now have the disposable income to go get the cars they never had as a young man. You also find a lot of classic car buyers looking to replace the muscle car they had. They had a monster car in the 60s, but got married, had kids, sold the car (before anyone knew they would be valuable/collectible) and got more sensible transportation. They always missed their old GTO and in their mind, no modern car can live up to the memory of it. After the kids are gone and he has some extra money, he goes searching for memories of his youth and in an attempt to recapture it, he buys the car he loved from 40 years ago.

The fuel crisis in the early 70s killed the muscle car off quickly. The car world didn't phase them out, they were killed off by gas prices, unleaded gas, the clean air act and insurance rates. That left buyers missing the cars and created a demand and lust that still remains. The current energy/environmental movement might do the same thing. If cars like the STi, EVO, Mustang, etc are suddenly killed by mileage requirements and environmental concerns, you will see the same kind of demand.

Also, the older cars are easy (relatively) to restore. They are mechanically simple, I can't imagine trying to restore a modern car 40+ years from now. Airbags, ABS, traction control, electronics, sensors and gizmos galore will be tough to find and restore.

Restoring current cars in 40 years will seem as simple as restoring the cars from the 60s today. Just as guys today want to relive their past by buying 60s muscle cars, the same mindset will happen in about 30 or so years with the muscle cars of today. The same thing that drives the prices of the classics today, desirability, performance, scarcity... will drive the prices next year and 30 years from know. One thing to consider today is the video game effect. This created a lust for cars like the EVO and STi long before they made it to the US.

03/04 cobra is already listed as a collectors car on edmunds