Well, iv decided to buy a project car for the spring/summer to have some fun and possibly go somewhere within the sport of drifting or autocross. I didnt say i will so calm down everyone. Im torn between the two because i love both but i have only participated in one autocross event, iv drifted a little with some of my friends cars and i really like them both. Im just not sure which one i should do lol. Im ownderign if anyone here does any of them and which one is cheaper. I know both of them will need alot of money but im just wondering how much $$$ ill be expecting to pay for events, tires, parts and etc. If anyone competes in either could you just give me some advice?

Drifting will be far more abusive to the car. I can't quantify that, but the difference in tire budget should be obvious.

-Mike

autocrosses will probably be easier to come by-and probably cheaper if you're worried about the price.

autocrosses will probably be easier to come by-and probably cheaper if you're worried about the price.

What do you mean easier to come by? My local track has more drift events scheduled then autocross lol if that what you mean.....

what do u want to do?

hahaha i would love to do both lol....if i were to get into autocross what cars should i be looking at for a good performance

What do you mean easier to come by? My local track has more drift events scheduled then autocross lol if that what you mean.....

The track doesn't schedule autoxes. Those are usually handled by a local club. And not only that, the need for a 'track' doesn't exist with auto-x. Just any large parking lot is fine.

Since you're in TriState, check out http://www.autox4u.com for the club that may be closest.

--kC

hahaha i would love to do both lol....if i were to get into autocross what cars should i be looking at for a good performance

I guess the question is just how much do you want to spend? I'm assuming you're not interested in the stock classes. The 1989 Honda Civic Si in STS is one of the cheapest ways to get a car that could win at Topeka. Of course, if you go with a cheap RWD car, you could both autocross and drift. I figure you'd need a class that lets you swap diffs, so that means STX/STU or stepping it up to Street Prepared. A CSP Miata shouldn't be too heavy on the wallet, or an STX 240SX (a chassis that won Nationals one year in STS). An E36 BMW could also be a good STX/drift car. Actually, a stock S2000 could maybe do both.

If you do both, obviously there will probably be compromises in one or the other. Probably two different damper/alignment settings will be required. But, unless you are thinking about no kidding taking a run at a national championship, you might as well go for cheap RWD fun and learn both. Seat time is seat time, after all.

Why not give karting a try? For the price of a drift\auto-x car build, you can get a used race kart and possibly a hauler as well (any full size truck or delivery van will do). I've been karting for about three years now and hands down you get the most seat time for the money in this sport. I've done time trials and autocross and neither comes close to the rush you get from wheel-to-wheel kart racing.

I guess the question is just how much do you want to spend? I'm assuming you're not interested in the stock classes. The 1989 Honda Civic Si in STS is one of the cheapest ways to get a car that could win at Topeka. Of course, if you go with a cheap RWD car, you could both autocross and drift. I figure you'd need a class that lets you swap diffs, so that means STX/STU or stepping it up to Street Prepared. A CSP Miata shouldn't be too heavy on the wallet, or an STX 240SX (a chassis that won Nationals one year in STS). An E36 BMW could also be a good STX/drift car. Actually, a stock S2000 could maybe do both.

If you do both, obviously there will probably be compromises in one or the other. Probably two different damper/alignment settings will be required. But, unless you are thinking about no kidding taking a run at a national championship, you might as well go for cheap RWD fun and learn both. Seat time is seat time, after all.

Id like to win some championships, but if i were to do both what cars should i look at for both lol. I dont think that a 240sx or a 180 would be a good decision for auto x

A 240SX could be a great ST or STX car, probably with a lot of the same mods you'd use on a drift car. (The setup would be different obviously) It would mean staying with just bolt ons as far as engine mods go though.

I'd get a miata, buy parts from these people:

http://www.flyinmiata.com/

Do you think you'd enjoy autocross? I did it for awhile and once I started hitting the track, well I just don't any more. I just don't have the obsessive, detail oriented mindset needed to do well in an Autocross.

If I wasn't hip deep in subaru's, I'd love to get another miata.

Drift... s13's are easy to come by and cheap money, and u can swap anything you heart wants into them..

buddy has an s13 with an SR20, I had an RB20DET in mine a while back, which if ur in the MA area you might see rolling around, I have seen various LS-x Swaps from Corvettes, VQ series motors.. there is alot you can do with them.

Even the stock KA24DE is bullet proof, and they are 50/50 weight distribution stock.

Some food for thought

If you want to spend time working on a project car then go with drifting.

If you want to spend time working on your driving then go with autocross.

I'd get a miata, buy parts from these people:

http://www.flyinmiata.com/

Do you think you'd enjoy autocross? I did it for awhile and once I started hitting the track, well I just don't any more. I just don't have the obsessive, detail oriented mindset needed to do well in an Autocross.

If I wasn't hip deep in subaru's, I'd love to get another miata.

miata ftw! or KC's civic he's selling, uber cheap I might add.

Im just finishing up building a spec miata, and some friends are trying to get me to take it to a couple drift days. The shells are cheap, parts are cheap, there's a huge community to use for resources and knowledge. and they feel fun as hell to drive even though they are slow

Where is the rallycross option?

Where is the rallycross option?

No rallycross that I'm aware of in this area.

autocross would have my vote. At least in my area, its a more common sport then drift events lol.

Autocross.. for practicality.

If you want to do both... start with autocross. The driving skills you'll gain there will pay dividends with whatever you want to do after that.

Rallycross is the best compromise of both IMHO.

You get to slide around the place and a driver does not need the best equipment to win.

Rallycross is the best compromise of both IMHO.

You get to slide around the place and a driver does not need the best equipment to win.You don't need the best equipment in auto-x either, but there *is* much less sliding. :)

--kC

+1 for autocross because it's more practical. It costs less and you can do it in a daily driver. Plus, the competition is more rewarding as it doesn't require judging.

Set aside your budget for a tow vehicle, trailer and gas/lodging for events. Those will easily be more than the cost of your first car, be it autoX or drifting.

What's that? you say you can't afford a tow vehicle and a trailer? Then the decision is simple to stick with autoX as the risk of causing enough damage to a drift car to make it undriveable is MUCH higher than it is to an autoX car.

Can you even setup a car to do both competitively?

I might be biased, but how about a 4th gen Camaro or TransAm :) They make very competitive ESP cars. Just don't set them up wrong like I did and end up in SM.

Not sure how much a good limited slip differential for autox like T2R or Auburn would be in drifting since those diffs are made for you to help gain traction. In drifting you don't want traction.

So who here has every driven or built a drift car? Who here actually knows what it takes to build a drift car? What kind of set up is required? Or how much abuse it actually sees?

Drifting will be far more abusive to the car. I can't quantify that, but the difference in tire budget should be obvious.

-Mike

True. You have to watch out for overheating (radiator doesn't get any air when you're sideways and newbs usually bounch off the rev limiter) as well as collision if you tandem.

autocrosses will probably be easier to come by-and probably cheaper if you're worried about the price.

Unless you want to be competitive, then getting that 1-2% advantage means getting more expensive parts or fabbing it yourself. You also have to make sure it's class legal

I guess the question is just how much do you want to spend? I'm assuming you're not interested in the stock classes. The 1989 Honda Civic Si in STS is one of the cheapest ways to get a car that could win at Topeka. Of course, if you go with a cheap RWD car, you could both autocross and drift. I figure you'd need a class that lets you swap diffs, so that means STX/STU or stepping it up to Street Prepared. A CSP Miata shouldn't be too heavy on the wallet, or an STX 240SX (a chassis that won Nationals one year in STS). An E36 BMW could also be a good STX/drift car. Actually, a stock S2000 could maybe do both.

If you do both, obviously there will probably be compromises in one or the other. Probably two different damper/alignment settings will be required. But, unless you are thinking about no kidding taking a run at a national championship, you might as well go for cheap RWD fun and learn both. Seat time is seat time, after all.

Miata is not necessarily a good choice, especially if it's NA. The 1.6 models have weak rear ends, the 1.8 is better. However, the short wheel base and low power makes it very difficult to drift. E36 could work, but would need work to get more angle. The steering rack is a bit long I believe. The S2000 is no good because of the electronic steering rack. It varies the input as the ECU detects slip which makes it very hard to predict unless you swap in a FD RX-7 steering rack. Different damper/alignment is not required, but different spring rates will help. Agreed on the whole seat time angle though.

Why not give karting a try? For the price of a drift\auto-x car build, you can get a used race kart and possibly a hauler as well (any full size truck or delivery van will do). I've been karting for about three years now and hands down you get the most seat time for the money in this sport. I've done time trials and autocross and neither comes close to the rush you get from wheel-to-wheel kart racing.

Karting can get just as expensive to be competitive. Although it is a blast. Teaches you a lot more about driving inputs than a car.

A 240SX could be a great ST or STX car, probably with a lot of the same mods you'd use on a drift car. (The setup would be different obviously) It would mean staying with just bolt ons as far as engine mods go though.

There is no need for a different set up, although by doing so, it will obviously help it perform more for one or the other. You can build a dual-purpose S13/14 with little changes.

I'd get a miata, buy parts from these people:

http://www.flyinmiata.com/

Do you think you'd enjoy autocross? I did it for awhile and once I started hitting the track, well I just don't any more. I just don't have the obsessive, detail oriented mindset needed to do well in an Autocross.

If I wasn't hip deep in subaru's, I'd love to get another miata.

Miata will be great for autocross. Can be built to work well for drifting, but needs power.

If you want to spend time working on a project car then go with drifting.

If you want to spend time working on your driving then go with autocross.

:rolleyes: Either way you'll spend time wrenching and driving. And you can't really auto-x on the street ;):o Not that I condone that kind of driving. :p

autocross would have my vote. At least in my area, its a more common sport then drift events lol.

I agree. Autocrosses can be found every weekend. Drift Days are not so common, and usually more expensive.

Set aside your budget for a tow vehicle, trailer and gas/lodging for events. Those will easily be more than the cost of your first car, be it autoX or drifting.

What's that? you say you can't afford a tow vehicle and a trailer? Then the decision is simple to stick with autoX as the risk of causing enough damage to a drift car to make it undriveable is MUCH higher than it is to an autoX car.

You don't need a tow vehicle. We have plenty of guys here in the midwest that drive 4-6 hrs to an event, beat the crap out of their cars, then drive back home. Just make sure you keep spare tie rods.

Can you even setup a car to do both competitively?

I might be biased, but how about a 4th gen Camaro or TransAm :) They make very competitive ESP cars. Just don't set them up wrong like I did and end up in SM.

Not sure how much a good limited slip differential for autox like T2R or Auburn would be in drifting since those diffs are made for you to help gain traction. In drifting you don't want traction.

You can build a car to do both easily. You actually DO want traction for drifting. It just depends on traction vs. power. Traction helps you get SPEED.

In drifting a 1.5 way diff can be used although 2 ways are preferred. But the best diff in the business is OS Giken which are all 1.5 ways (although you can modify the lock timing on the decel)

The main difference I can think of between a good, fun auto-x car and good, fun drift car is the gearing. In auto-x, you usually want a taller 1/2 gearing so you don't have to constantly be changing gears. In drifting, you just want to stay in the powerband as much as possible.

People think drift cars use stiff rear spring rates and stiff rear bars to get the rear to come out, but that's not the case, that'll lead the car to spinning. Our sponsored drift cars use an 8k/5k spring rate. Our sponsored grip cars use 12k/10k. So contrary to what people think, drift cars don't work better with stiff rear suspension.

Also their alignment settings are -3~3.5 F camber, -2~3 R camber. 7 front caster. 0 toe. So can work for both auto-x or drift.

Earl

I can say with all confidence drifting is undisputedably more expensive then auto x. The most simple reason being is drifting has walls!!! If you make a tremendous mistake in drifting your going to find a wall, or have an off at high speed sometimes in the gravel trap and roll. Or if your in a huge space on a flat lot and you go for a tandem run (if only in practice even) you will find another car and hit it. If there are hay barrels there you will hit them. If theres a fence you will hit it!!!

I have a very close friend who has been drifting on a very high competition level for closing in on about 7years now, and I've aided his and my numerous friends that compete in drifting for just as long. I've had my hand in at least more then half a dozen of the cars they built.

Drifting breaks everything!!! Transmissions, clutches, differentials, various suspension bit's, and very frequently ego's.....LOL

If your looking to do the sport on a high level of competition, it will take an immense amount of dedication to achieve, and most that try will not make it. (not trying to rain on any parades but this is the truth). It's a viciously competitive sport!! Most of the drivers running at the Formula D level have either enormous bank accounts or are heavily backed by sponsors.

Those that are not have a tremendous amount of dedication to what their doing, and sacrifice many things to be able to do it.

I would say unequivocally Auto x is a more affordable sport to partake in. Even if you have developed your car to a very high level and invested boat loads in it, there will never be any total write off kind of accidents as there is in drifting ( I have a friend that is on his fourth Rx7 shell now, and he is by no means a untalented driver that wrecks all the time LOL....).

Not trying to discourage you from trying it, but just letting you know that if you intend to take it to a high level what to expect.

What happened to the Time Attack car you were running Earl? Are you going to do any of the Redline events this year?

Well any how I wish you the best in whichever you try to pursue!!!

-Anthony

There's a guy that comes to my autox events with a 240sx that does both drift and autox. He's pretty good at both. He does get a little squirley in sweeping turns though. You would REALLY need to know how to drive the car both ways.

We get quite a few drifters at our AX's ... practicing gripping. Drifting is seriously frowned upon at SCCA auto crosses. On the other hand, if you see a National Solo Champ like (CS) Ryan Buetzer ... you would say he's ... drifting a lot of the time ... when he's not up on two wheels.

http://images45.fotki.com/v1199/photos/4/43793/6490498/_MG_2633-vi.jpg

John Stimson Photo

I've been known to drift at some autoxes....

http://photos-e.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-snc1/v376/6/125/671713749/n671713749_953620_4592.jpg
2005 SCCA Solo National Championships.

Autox will teach you precision car control at the limit, at a safe environment. It teaches you how to place your car within inches (sometimes within an inch) of an obstacle, one that won't harm the car should you be a little off.

Get some autox time under your belt to where you can place the car where ever you want, whenever you want. Not only will it teach precision, it will teach you what you can do to NOT beat on your car and still perform precision driving. And then... go drifting.

--kC

We get quite a few drifters at our AX's ... practicing gripping. Drifting is seriously frowned upon at SCCA auto crosses. On the other hand, if you see a National Solo Champ like (CS) Ryan Buetzer ... you would say he's ... drifting a lot of the time ... when he's not up on two wheels.


Very true. It's never cool when "that guy" treats an autocross like a drift practice session.

The clock is the only thing I want to be judged by

I had high speed track driving before Autocross. I didn't like autocrossing as much because you're not at threshold braking, cornering like high speed track. Autocross just didn't allow me to drive at my full potential. I did do a drift event with my car. THAT was fun!

I'd say, practice your grip driving, one you learn the limits, you can break the limits!

Preparation of your car involves a bit of work. EVERYTHING major mechanical part must be working well and should not have any problems. Little things can be hazardous. I bring ALL my tools with me whenever I go to an event. Worse case is having an STi axle snapping on my on a lunch 1.5hours from home.

If you love it, save the $$ and just DO IT!!! I costs me a lot to setup the car, but I make the most out of it when I'm at those events. Make your $$$'s worth!!

if you want to compete then auto-x will be the way to go. but if you want to have pure stupid fun you should still give a few local drift events a shot. you will learn new skills that other types of driving just can't teach and it will help you in those other disciplines.

What happened to the Time Attack car you were running Earl? Are you going to do any of the Redline events this year?

Well any how I wish you the best in whichever you try to pursue!!!

-Anthony

Hey Anthony, I'm still building my car and plan on doing as many east coast events as possible. And I do agree that Formula D is all about money. You need lots of it. But it's also the same with any form of pro driving. US professional drifting is meh to me. But we're trying to get back to the grassroots driving over here in the Midwest so hopefully that goes well.

I didn't like autocrossing as much because you're not at threshold braking, cornering like high speed track.
What?

Look to yourself if you aren't threshold braking while auto crossing! I can't speak for other regions, but here in Southern CA we are blessed with some really large lots where we put up some pretty fast corners. It's pretty thrilling to be able to safely go thru said fast corners at and above the limit ... instead of worrying about balling up your car at a track.

Sitting next to last years SS National Champ Gary Thomason while he finely drifts a Z-06 at the high end of 2nd gear was more exciting for me then smoothly motoring around Willow Springs at 155 mph in a C6 Z-06 because we couldn't afford to really get to the limit on the track.

http://images115.fotki.com/v680/photos/4/43793/3302187/GaryFineDrift-vi.jpg