http://www.scca.com/documents/Fastrack/09/03/09-fastrack-march.pdf

Per the SPAC, the following set of listing changes is proposed for member feedback:
- Subaru WRX STi (’04-’07) BSP
- Subaru WRX and STi (‘08+) BSP, separate line from above



Interesting bits for the Tech Bulletin

Stock: Per 12.4, port-installed options provided by the factory are considered to be the same as those installed on the factory
production line. (ref.. 08-712)

Stock: Effective immediately upon publication, the following new listing is added: Nissan 370Z BS

Street Prepared: Per the SPAC, the “Subaru WRX” listing in ESP is clarified to read: “Subaru WRX (except STi) (’02-’07)”

Prepared: Per the PAC, the following new listings are added and are effective immediately upon publication (ref. 08-467):
Factory Five Mk3 Roadster & Challenge Car XP
Factory Five Type 65 Coupe XP
Factory Five GTM Supercar XP
Superformance MKIII XP
Superformance GT40 MKII XP
Superformance Shelby Cobra Daytona Coupe XP
Mosler MT900S & MT900R XP

Per the SPAC, the following set of listing changes is proposed for member feedback:
- Subaru WRX STi (’04-’07) BSP
- Subaru WRX and STi (‘08+) BSP, separate line from above


:unamused:


Get your letters ready...

:unamused:


Get your letters ready...

Ready? No. Today. Get them in today. They only allow less than a week for member comment to come in. Sometimes even less than that.

--kC

Wow! Definitely writing a letter on this today...

I will write a letter as well. I think it's a mute point, however, because there will be more traditional esp drivers that write than wrx owners.

If your given the choice, making the 08+ wrx's also rans in BSP is far better than making all wrx's also rans in bsp. If that is the case I think you'd start with a sti.

They're concerned with the VF52, thats it.

Right or wrong? IDK. That's the way I see it.

Today, I'm indifferent. :)

edit: if I'm reading it correctly the tech bulletin takes effect immediately, correct?

Phil, you may wish to reconsider your opposistion to moving them to bsp.;)

If your given the choice, making the 08+ wrx's also rans in BSP is far better than making all wrx's also rans in bsp. If that is the case I think you'd start with a sti.

They're concerned with the VF52, thats it.
Greg,

When you put it that way, I'd have to agree. I definitely wouldn't want to see all WRXs become also-rans in BSP. :diaf:

I would also agree that the turbo in the '09 WRX (VF52) is concerning many...

I would also agree that the turbo in the '09 WRX (VF52) is concerning many...
I don't know about "many," but definitely it is concerning a vocal group of drivers.

I need to win the lottery. :unamused:

Karen

And for the vast hoards of Saab Sonett owners, you're welcome!

14) Street Prepared: Effective immediately upon publication, the following new listings are added: Saab Sonnet (’68-’74 all) FSP (ref. 08-732)

Nice to see they managed to spell Sonett wrong.

Chris H.

And for the vast hoards of Saab Sonett owners, you're welcome!

14) Street Prepared: Effective immediately upon publication, the following new listings are added: Saab Sonnet (’68-’74 all) FSP (ref. 08-732)

Nice to see they managed to spell Sonett wrong.

Chris H.

:lol:

Also, can someone point out rule 14.10.6? I can't find it anywhere.

Do you think anyone who makes rules actually ever even considers driving a car before classifying it? For god's sake, you can park a 08+ WRX and tell it's not a BSP car :lol:

Are the 08+ WRX and 08+ STI listed on the same line? Could make for some interesting update/backdate magic.....

-Mike

Phil, you may wish to reconsider your opposistion to moving them to bsp.;)

humbug!!!

Are the 08+ WRX and 08+ STI listed on the same line? Could make for some interesting update/backdate magic.....
That's how the proposal has them listed. So, if the proposal goes through, yes, that would allow for UD/BD between the two.

edit: if I'm reading it correctly the tech bulletin takes effect immediately, correct?
Greg,

That's how I'm reading it as well...
Street Prepared: Per the SPAC, the “Subaru WRX” listing in ESP is clarified to read: “Subaru WRX (except STi) (’02-’07)”
So only an '02-'07 WRX could show up to run in the ESP class currently.

Are the 08+ WRX and 08+ STI listed on the same line? Could make for some interesting update/backdate magic.....

-Mike

That's how the proposal has them listed. So, if the proposal goes through, yes, that would allow for UD/BD between the two.

Yep, Yep. I'm an idiot.

KC, rule 14.10.6 is an obscure rule that explicitly disallows you from calling to light any and all infractions, shortcomings, or tom-foolery by the scca or any of it's govering agents.

For god's sake, you can park a 08+ WRX and tell it's not a BSP car :lol:
Well, in stock form yes. If the '08+ WRX and STI are on separate lines, besides the WRX tranny issue, how would these cars be different in SP trim?

I haven't written my letter and could swing either way. I'm looking for more info...
Are the 08+ WRX and 08+ STI listed on the same line? Could make for some interesting update/backdate magic...Agreed. This is the way I'm starting to lean.

Per the SPAC, the following set of listing changes is proposed for member feedback:
- Subaru WRX STi (’04-’07) BSP
- Subaru WRX and STi (‘08+) BSP, separate line from above

That's not how I read it. Seperate line. So no interesting UD/BD

KC spelled it out in the 3 sentences.
When it says "separate line from above," that doesn't mean the '08 WRX and '08 STI are on separate lines from each other, only a separate line from the '02-'07 STi.

edit : oooooo, greg with the ninja edit! ;) :lol:

That's how the proposal has them listed. So, if the proposal goes through, yes, that would allow for UD/BD between the two.

Would there even be that much advantage to the ud/bd allowance? I'd imagine once you're done adding diffs and such the weight would be pretty similar, with the biggest difference being transmission.

I read through the threads on sccafourms about this a while ago and found it entertaining how threatened the esp guys were getting about the 09, even though I haven't heard of anyone seriously considering it.

It will be interesting to see how things shake out this year with mccanixx and others making serious efforts at the class. No offense to the esp old guard, but I'm looking forward to you guys shaking things up.

No offense to the esp old guard, but I'm looking forward to you guys shaking things up.
+12345 :devil::devil::devil:

I'd like to see either Little, McCance or Brooks at the of ESP in '09!!! :cool: :cool: :cool:

KC, rule 14.10.6 is an obscure rule that explicitly disallows you from calling to light any and all infractions, shortcomings, or tom-foolery by the scca or any of it's govering agents.:furious: <-- I swear Nick should just rename this to :kC:

--kC

Would there even be that much advantage to the ud/bd allowance?


Actually, the big thing I had in mind was having an STI without the doofy fenders. Hehe.

I read through the threads on sccafourms about this a while ago and found it entertaining how threatened the esp guys were getting about the 09, even though I haven't heard of anyone seriously considering it.


Probably because, as someone else said, one look at the 09 and everyone knew it wasn'g going in ESP.

-Mike

:furious: <-- I swear Nick should just rename this to :kC:

--kC


:confused::confused:

:eek::eek:

:huh::huh:

:furious::lol::lol:


toooooooooooo funny.....

OK...My question is......Where is the Mazdaspeed in all this...:unamused: there must be some V8 Guys *really* scared of this one.....to put a 09 WRX in the same class as a STi???? Do they realize how much money it would take to make an 09 WRX competitive in BSP???? OMG...wait *lightbulb* nevermind....

Does the STi 6-speed still require a shift to 3rd for 60MPH? I think the WRX 5MT will probably add a little more advantage to the STi guys in BSP if they're going to be on the same line - I wonder if the BSP-is-dead-because-of-the-rally-cars guys are paying attention.

Anyone who thinks the 09+ WRX should stay in ESP probably isn't paying attention. But this rule is missing a really really key part. Presumably, they do not want the newly-labelled '09 Impreza GT dropping down to Impreza NOC line in SP.
-N

EDIT: I just sent my letter.

By the way, am I the only one who didn't receive email notification of this FastTrack? I normally do.
-N

By the way, am I the only one who didn't receive email notification of this FastTrack? I normally do.
-N
Same here. I normally get an e-mail notification, but I've recv'd nothing yet.

I can definitely understand their reasoning for this change. A 2002 WRX with the '09 motor would be fun to see though. :D

I didn't get mine either. i just happened to be on another forum where a RR guy said it was out.

--kC

I can definitely understand their reasoning for this change. A 2002 WRX with the '09 motor would be fun to see though. :D

Well, if that was their concern, they could just put the '09 WRX on a separate line from the earlier models. Then, you couldn't put an '09 motor in an '02 WRX in SP. The concern bringing this up is that an '09 WRX in SP trim is essentially no different from an STi in SP trim.
-N

Touche, didn't think about the fact of just putting them on a different line in SP.

Just got my comments logged: 09-098
They are on top of these today it seems.
-N

I have NOT written my letter but need to asap. I'm still undecided which way to go. Part of me says:

1) Keep the '08+ WRXs in ESP on their own line until they're proven to be an overdog in the class

2) Put the '08+ WRX in BSP on the same line as the '08+ STI.

I'm leaning towards #2...

I have NOT written my letter but need to asap. I'm still undecided which way to go. Part of me says:

1) Keep the '08+ WRXs in ESP on their own line until they're proven to be an overdog in the class

2) Put the '08+ WRX in BSP on the same line as the '08+ STI.

I'm leaning towards #2...
My solution was to keep the '08 WRX in ESP with the 09+ Impreza GTs. That way, they aren't as lonely in ESP on their own line. But the '09 WRX and '08+ STi can both play together in BSP, on the same line.
-N

Interesting Neil. Thanks!

-Chike

Wow - I sent my letter in at 11:25am, got my log book # back from Harmer at 11:45am!!!

Well, if that was their concern, they could just put the '09 WRX on a separate line from the earlier models. Then, you couldn't put an '09 motor in an '02 WRX in SP. The concern bringing this up is that an '09 WRX in SP trim is essentially no different from an STi in SP trim.
-N

Put the '09+ on the same line in BSP and you can create lighter STis that maybe can keep up with the EVOs...maybe? I guess now the brakes are somewhat free anyway...but you can downsize to the base model brakes AND make them out of AL. Just as a for example...I see the newest WRXs as an acceptable sacrifice to allow the subaru power to have more of a chance to keep up with the mitsu's!!! :D

intersting.. .the audi RS4 is now in ESP...

intersting.. .the audi RS4 is now in ESP...
Yeah, but that thing weighs 3,900lbs stock. With SP mods, you could probably trim 400-500lbs tops, but you're still stuck with a porker.

Just sent my letter for you *SP guys.

5) Street Touring: 14.10.6 should read: “All vehicles must comply with the EPA tailpipe emissions test requirements as a minimum.”
Which requirements would those be again? :diaf:

(All they did was make it say "All vehicles" instead of "All ST vehicles", I know)

The only people that really get hurt by the SP proposal, I think, are the 08 WRX people, and they can update/backdate anything they need to be competitive. If this means that the 02-07 WRX will be (relatively) safe in ESP it sounds good to me. It'll be a while before we start seeing any seriously prepped 08+ cars I think.

Prepared: Per the PAC, the following new listings are added and are effective immediately upon publication (ref. 08-467):
Factory Five Mk3 Roadster & Challenge Car XP
Factory Five Type 65 Coupe XP
Factory Five GTM Supercar XP
Superformance MKIII XP
Superformance GT40 MKII XP
Superformance Shelby Cobra Daytona Coupe XP
Mosler MT900S & MT900R XP

It was an error in the fastrack. These are supposed to go out for member comment, not classed immediately.

--kC

Hey....guess what...I got an email comfirmation that the new fastrack is out..:lol: :rolleyes:


Bill

Hey....guess what...I got an email comfirmation that the new fastrack is out..:lol: :rolleyes:


BillYeah, I just found mine too. :)

+1 more :)

I guess the pony car guys did scream loud enough after all :) I guess we'll leave it to the 02-07's (maybe the 08?) to clean up

question- does the tech bulletin mean that of right now both the 08/09 WRX are officially in BSP (only 02-07 WRX's in ESP)?

if not, what does the tech bulletin mean? :)

The tech bulletin means that currently the 08/09 is not classed in SP unless it falls under a catch all for an SP class.

They clarified that the current listing is only for the 02-07 cars but did not create a new listing for the 08/09. the BSP thing is just a proposal right now so the 08/09 WRX is not eligible for BSP under that. I would suggest writing a letter and asking to see.

thanks- wow not even a current class to compete in :(

Yeah, I agree. Not having the '08 being classed through this 'clarifichange' is their typical shenanigans.

--kC

Yeah, I agree. Not having the '08 being classed through this 'clarifichange' is their typical shenanigans.

--kC

Where is your letter? I mean we did it because it makes no sense to have the 08 in ESP for one year if its gonna move to the same line as the 09+ cars. Is it worth it to spend all that money to run the car for you know at most one year? Are we screwing anyone with this change? If there's a problem let us know.

why not leave "WRX" as is for ESP (rescind the tech bulletin), let the SEB decide to move it (the 08/09) to BSP based on the comments it receives- right now it can't be run in either the way I read it

Here's my take on things...

The WRX was listed in ESP as 02+. (Edit: Actually... just "WRX" which means every WRX)
The '08 came out in '07.
The clarifichange comes out for March stating ESP is only 02-07. Doing this counts as a classing CHANGE that was never put out for member comment since the '08 had been out and classed in ESP for over a year already.
It did not, was not, need to be specifically classed.

So, what we have here is a rule change that was never put out for member comment.

However, also under tech bulletins was the prepared classings that were supposed to be out for member comment and not effective immediately... this very well could be the same thing. I have an email out to find out.

KC

Here's my take on things...

The WRX was listed in ESP as 02+. (Edit: Actually... just "WRX" which means every WRX)
The '08 came out in '07.
The clarifichange comes out for March stating ESP is only 02-07. Doing this counts as a classing CHANGE that was never put out for member comment since the '08 had been out and classed in ESP for over a year already.
It did not, was not, need to be specifically classed.

So, what we have here is a rule change that was never put out for member comment.

However, also under tech bulletins was the prepared classings that were supposed to be out for member comment and not effective immediately... this very well could be the same thing. I have an email out to find out.

I sent an email to Doug. It looks like there was an oversight for the revised listing ('02-'07 on one line, and '08+ on another line), and that the '08-'09 is in ESP through '09. Even if it stays in ESP, it will be on a line separate from the earlier WRXes.

Karen

I sent an email to Doug. It looks like there was an oversight for the revised listing ('02-'07 on one line, and '08+ on another line), and that the '08-'09 is in ESP through '09. Even if it stays in ESP, it will be on a line separate from the earlier WRXes.

That sounds fair to me. Glad to see it was just an oversight/mistake in the fastrack listing.

I sent an email to Doug. It looks like there was an oversight for the revised listing ('02-'07 on one line, and '08+ on another line), and that the '08-'09 is in ESP through '09. Even if it stays in ESP, it will be on a line separate from the earlier WRXes.

Karen

Yeah. I have no big issue with that either, as long as it takes effect as a rule change for '10, not for '09 since... both cars, expecially the '08, have been out and legal in the class already under ESP -> WRX and on the same line. If they wanted to change anything, it could/should be '09+ on the separate line. Then I have no defense. But the '08? Not an oversight. Nothing was done for it for well over a year in any Fastracks. That's essentially a rule change, and not a clarification.

Everyone sees the writing on the wall anyway and taking '08 parts for your '02-'07 may not be the best thing to do... since there's a request for comment at moving them to BSP.

I think the '08 is compatable for ESP along with the Impreza GT. It's the '09 that *can be* moved to BSP should the membership wish. On top of that, the '08 should be on the same line and when the GT comes... could/should read IMHO:

'02-'08 WRX and '09+ Impreza GT... all on the same line.

--KC

That sounds fair to me. Glad to see it was just an oversight/mistake in the fastrack listing.
Agreed. That's awesome. Hopefully this will all be clarified in the next Fastrack.

got an email back from the SEB stating the same thing- basically an oversight- 08/09 in ESP for the time being

Well at least I could compete locally with an ESP index in street tire for a (half)year and be competitive if(when :lol:) I can't stand my camberless car and mod myself out of the class. Damn car is turning into an underdog already.....STU(not a chance), BSP(pulease, and not at my budget).