Hey guys, I'm trying to order some Auto-X magnets so

a) I look like less of a newb on Sundays and
b) so I never again have to attempt taping my car with painters tape in the rain:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3115/3396930591_3fae7595ea_b.jpg

Anyway, I was hoping I could maybe visualize what the different letter sizes looked like. Could you guys post up what size numbers you run and maybe a pic?

It seems like standard is 8", but that sounds small (twss). I don't want to order some numbers and end up with little sissy numbers.

-Matt

why dont you go try them out with your painters tape and measure the height of what you think looks right?
that seems like the simplest way, or borrow someone's numbers at the next event

^ winnar.

but fwiw, these are 9" numbers.

http://premium1.uploadit.org/austinpike//STI_505_DF.jpg

SCCA rules say #s shoudl be at least 8" tall, 1.5 inch stroke. Class letters should be 1/3rd to 3/4th the size of numbers, matching font, adjacent to, and at least 4" tall with 1/2 inch stroke.

Also, contrasting colors. Grey/Silver, Red/Black, Silver/white, etc = no-no.


Jon K

and, what the heck.. this is a write-up I did for my local SCCA region last year...



What defines a racecar?

Is it a roll bar? No, Police cars have those.

Stickers showing off the parts you have on the car? Nah, show cars have those in spades.

Want to know?

Drive a car by a school bus full of elementary school kids and they will let you know when.

So when is it?

It’s when the number dominates the car.

There is a reason why the #3 is synonymous with Dale Earnhardt Sr. Why when I say “the #43” and you think of Richard Petty. It’s why the #14 has been reserved for the use of AJ Foyt in IndyCar racing.

So it stands to reason that if you want your car to work as a competition vehicle when autocrossing you should have very visible numbers on the side of it. (Oh.. and it’s in the rules as well.)

The SCCA Solo Events rule book has an entire section on numbers, and even a clarification in the appendix.



So let’s break down Section 3.7 – VEHICLE IDENTIFICATION:



SCCA National Solo Rules wrote:
3.7.A: All vehicles must display numbers and class letters on both sides, which must be readable by Timing & Scoring, Course, and Grid workers at all times.


What this means is what it says - All cars must have numbers and class letters on both sides, and they must be able to be read by timing and scoring along with course workers. “Able to be read” is defined more in depth later.



SCCA National Solo Rules wrote:
3.7.B: Only one set of numbers and class letters may be visible while the vehicle is running.


This means that you can’t have another set of numbers on the car.. like “14ES” if you are registered as “14ASP”



SCCA National Solo Rules wrote:
C. Class shall be represented by the upper-case abbreviated form rather than be spelled out. Ladies’ classes shall be indicated by the letter “L” following the class letters. (Example: “BSPL” instead of “B Street Prepared Ladies”).

Hey.. that one is even spelled out for you. I am not going to bother explaining. (I will mention that I have seen something like, “45 TIR” for street-tire classes. Which, by the rules doesn’t work. (sorry no picture of that)



SCCA National Solo Rules wrote:
D. Numbers and class letters should be positioned next to each other. All letters and numbers must be on body panels, not on windows. All numbers and class letters must use the same typeface and the same color, and this color must provide adequate contrast to the background color (see Appendix F for examples).

Let’s break this one down, because it seems to be one of the more misunderstood…

Numbers and class letters should be next to each other. Adjacent to. Not numbers on the door and letters on the window, or fenders, or, well.. anywhere else.

http://www.racerjon.com/pictures/miscshots/autoxnumbers/bad003_poorclassletters.jpg
Where are the class letters? Is XP the sponsor or the class? See the problem?


All letters and numbers must be on body panels, not on windows.

http://www.racerjon.com/pictures/miscshots/autoxnumbers/bad002_window.jpg
This doesn’t work.


All letters must have matching typeface (font) and color: See the example above with the “XP” not having a matching typeface just adds to the confusion.


Colors must provide contrast to the background color. Dark colors on a dark color doesn’t work, light colors on a light car doesn’t work… (As I have heard said, red is dark, black is dark.. so red and black doesn’t work)

http://www.racerjon.com/pictures/miscshots/autoxnumbers/bad008_badcontrast.jpg
I hope I don’t have to explain this example, and even though it was probably put on by tech, it still doesn’t work – this is why tech should have some purple masking tape.


http://www.racerjon.com/pictures/miscshots/autoxnumbers/bad007_notenoughcontrast.jpg
At least the class letters are ok.. but white on silver.. yea.. that’s just not working.


http://www.racerjon.com/pictures/miscshots/autoxnumbers/bad005_stillnotenoughcontrast.jpg
This one didn’t pass tech at the 2008 SCCA Solo National Championships – so if you THINK it might work, you might want to go one extra step to be sure.

http://www.racerjon.com/pictures/miscshots/autoxnumbers/bad006_whatwashethinking.jpg
A really bad example...



SCCA National Solo Rules wrote:
E. Numbers must be a minimum of 8" high with a 1.25" stroke. Class letters must be a minimum of 4" high with a 0.75" stroke. In all cases, the height of the class letters must be between 25% and 75% of the height of the numbers. Stroke width must be at least 10% of the height. (See Appendix F.)

This one is the one you get to do math with. When we work tech at national events, this is where we come out with little rulers and such.

Don’t let anyone ever tell you size doesn’t matter. (At least in the case of numbers on racecars) The bigger it is, the easier it is to read. Notice these example pictures are kind of small – I did that on purpose. If you want a good test, take a picture of your car, resize it to thumbnail size. Show it to someone who has never seen it before for less than one second. If they can’t tell you what number it is, go back and order new numbers. (If you haven’t ordered numbers yet.. well.. make sure you wont have to order new ones, they can be expensive)

http://www.racerjon.com/pictures/miscshots/autoxnumbers/bad001_classtoolarge.jpg
Example one.. class letters too large. It is readable, but it isn’t right, and at a glance it is good to have the different sizes.

http://www.racerjon.com/pictures/miscshots/autoxnumbers/bad004_toosmall.jpg
Think this one will pass my thumbnail test?



For reference, here is the image used in the SCCA Appendix:

http://www.racerjon.com/pictures/miscshots/autoxnumbers/rule_image.jpg



SCCA National Solo Rules wrote:
F. The “1” on two-driver cars and the “L” on Ladies class cars are subject to all of the above requirements with regard to placement, color, size, and stroke.

We also see this one violated at local events. I will dig up some pictures and update the thread.. Essentially though, putting the “L” or “P” or “T” somewhere far away from the number and class letters doesn’t help anything..



SCCA National Solo Rules wrote:
G. Karts may use numbers and class letters of reduced size provided that the following conditions are met: 1) Numbers must be displayed on the front and rear in addition to both sides; 2) Class letters must be on both sides; 3) In no case may the numbers be smaller than 6" in height with ¾” stroke, using a high-contrast color and background.

This one explains the rule for karts.. so it won’t apply to most of us. But you see there is still a lot of attention paid to being able to see the number.



more to come...

Finally, some good examples:

To prove that it can be done in tape – good size, correct ratio for numbers:letters.. the stroke isn’t really enough, but for a local event, it isn’t horrible:
http://www.racerjon.com/pictures/miscshots/autoxnumbers/good002_goodtape.jpg

Dark numbers on a light background:
http://www.racerjon.com/pictures/miscshots/autoxnumbers/good004_dark-on-light.jpg

Light numbers on a dark background:
http://www.racerjon.com/pictures/miscshots/autoxnumbers/good007_light-on-dark.jpg

More light numbers on a dark background:
http://www.racerjon.com/pictures/miscshots/autoxnumbers/good005_light-on-dark.jpg



Of course, sometimes you don’t want to have a lot of different numbers and letters to keep track of, so you want a single-piece number plate – here are a couple that work:

http://www.racerjon.com/pictures/miscshots/autoxnumbers/good003_singleplate.jpg

http://www.racerjon.com/pictures/miscshots/autoxnumbers/good006_singleplate.jpg



So hopefully that helps…

Take this time to make sure your numbers are ok. Remember, you can’t have an SCR-SCCA annual tech without SCCA Nationals-spec numbers. Make sure that you are not the cause of a numbers-related delay or scoring problem.

Then, once you get them right, drive by an elementary school and watch the kids pointing and cheering.



Jon K

http://tinyurl.com/d53ykn

9", I think...

Jon,

Can you send me the file, or can I cut and paste to my forum (with your full credit of course, and region)? I'd like to put that on our forum. That is an excellent writeup!

--kC

KC,

That would be cool.. that's a BB-code write-up, so the file is just that, but I can send you the code version if you want.


Jon

Do you want me to re-host the images?

--kC

Do you want me to re-host the images?

--kC


Eh.. up to you, I am not getting such a massive amount of traffic is matters, so you can boost my hits :-) If it becomes a problem, I will say something. (but I dont anticipate it becoming an issue)


Jon

Also.. there is a line in there about not getting the SCR annual tech without rulebook-legal numbers.. you can edit that if you want/need as well.


Jon

I just picked up some nice meatballs from here

http://www.izoomgraphics.com/index.php?main_page=page_autocross

http://www.izoomgraphics.com/images/products_ax/number_lemans_set.gif

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3616/3397672878_c19457e070_b.jpg


10' I think I am going to play around with placement a little.

damn doulble post

I just picked up some nice meatballs from here

http://www.izoomgraphics.com/index.php?main_page=page_autocross

http://www.izoomgraphics.com/images/products_ax/number_lemans_set.gif
Yep, those look great on the STi...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3424/3397744990_bfff22d8fc_b.jpg

Curse you for posting that and reminding me how good those meatball numbers look on the STi. Makes me want to get a set to replace my current ones.

http://solberg.umd.edu/STi/2008/autox/wdcr/03.29.09/2.jpg

^^ got those from RallyDecals.com years ago.

RallyDecals.com is the finest online establishment established online!

Heres mine..:)

http://www.scoobysouth.net/BL19.jpg

blah5

8"



http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o291/TubeDriver/pete5.jpg

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o291/TubeDriver/NVCCTrack_028-1.jpg

Mine are bigger than yours (in my best whiny voice)

16" numbers, 4 or 5" letters from iZoom.

http://i334.photobucket.com/albums/m416/clintonracing/JULYTTBMP.jpg

Ooooh... those 16" numbers look nice!

What defines a racecar?

Is it a roll bar? No, Police cars have those.




Police cars have a cage that is a divider and not a roll bar. They are not designed to offer roll over protection.

8" numbers on meatballs from the link I posted above

http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu4/mla163/IMG_2294cleanedup.jpg?t=1239068528

ok, I just wanted to show off my new magnets

Police cars have a cage that is a divider and not a roll bar. They are not designed to offer roll over protection.

It worked ok as one I saw on a couple of rolled over georgia patrol cars... :D

(They used to to training at Roebling Road Raceway.. there were some messed up ones every once in a while)


Jon

FWIW, I ended up going with the 12" numbers and couldn't be happier!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2443/3584514362_2cb52dd0d7_b.jpg

-Matt

10" numbers with 5" letters

http://www.autoxphotos.com/thumb.asp?size=640&path=gallery%2FSteel%20Cities%20SCCA%2F2009%2F5%2E 24%2E09%20Bob%20K%2FPicture%203570001scca%2EJPG

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3606/3481277762_f90e186fe4.jpg

8" - 4"... looks smaller than advertised. Even more so when the dirt gets over them.