This is a summary of important SCCA Auto-X (Solo II) rules, with a special emphasis on classes that the 2.5 RS and the WRX can run in, listing which popular mods are allowed in which class. It should answer the most common question, but it does not replace the official rule book (http://www.scca.com/Solo/Index.asp?IdS=002EDA-ECBBCD0&x=050|070&~=), which contains the full details for all the points mentioned here, plus many more rules. There is also a number of links to additional valuable resources at the end of this post.

Last modification: March 24, 2005 (update with 2005 rules)

Classes

Which class you are running in is decided by the car model you drive, plus a category depending on the modifications you make to your car. With increasing levels of modifications, a logical progression is from Stock category (cars with no or minimal modifications) over Street Touring, Street Prepared to Street Modified. There are categories beyond Street Modified (Prepared, Modified) that are not within the scope of this document.

The possible classes for a 2.5 RS are:

Stock: GS
Street Touring: STS (STX, STU)
Street Prepared: DSP
Street Modified: SM


The possible classes for a WRX are:

Stock: DS
Street Touring: STX (STU)
Street Prepared: ESP
Street Modified: SM


The possible classes for an STi are:

Stock: AS
Street Touring: STU
Street Prepared: BSP
Street Modified: SM
Prepared: FP


The possible classes for a Forester XT are:

Stock: DS
Street Touring: STU
Street Prepared: ESP
Street Modified: SM


The possible classes for a Legacy 2.5GT are:

Stock: DS
Street Touring: STU
Street Prepared: ESP
Street Modified: SM


One essential principle is common to all the rules: If a modification is not explicitly authorized by the rules, it is not allowed, no matter how trivial it seems.

Stock Rules (DS, GS)

The following modifications are allowed in stock class:

Port installed options: rear spoiler, diff protector, armrest extension (specifically allowed in February '03 FasTrack, the general rules allow factory options only).
Appearance, comfort and convenience options, e. g. gauges, alarms, turbo timers, shift knobs.
Removal of spare tire, tools and jack.
Harness (seat belts cannot be removed).
Any DOT approved tires (see rules for restrictions), including R-compounds, of any size (no modification of fender well).
Wheels (stock size only, offset within 0.25" of stock).
Wheel spacers (resulting offset within 0.25" of stock).
Lug nuts.
Brake pads, speed bleeders.
Shocks that maintain stock ride height, can be adjustable. See rule book for details!
Front sway bar.
Different alignment using factory adjustments (no camber bolts).
Spark plugs.
Air filter element can be removed or replaced.
Cat-back exhaust.


STS Rules

All modifications from the Stock rules are allowed, except for:

Tires only up to 225 width, and at least 140 tread wear rating.


In addition, the following modifications are allowed:

Remove air condition.
Pedal covers.
Seat (fully upholstered seating surface, must weight at least 15 lbs).
Removal of factory emblems (debadging).
Rolling of inside fender lip.
Addition of body kits.
Replace rear wing and bumper covers (wings up to 8 square feet).
Wheels up to 7.5" width, any diameter.
Cross drilled and/or slotted brake rotors (standard size).
Brake lines, e. g. stainless steel.
Air ducts for brakes.
Disabled ABS (not removed).
Shocks (fewer restrictions than stock). No electronic adjustment, like Tein EDFC!
Springs (can be height adjustable, e. g. coilovers).
Any suspension bushings, non-metallic.
Any differential mount bushings, non-metallic.
Any subframe mount bushings, non-metallic.
Adjustable camber plates (caster adjustment allowed).
Camber bolts.
Adjustable front control arms (only if no front camber plates or camber bolts are used). Must have non-metallic bushings, spherical bearings are not allowed.
Adjustable rear lateral links (only if no rear camber plates or camber bolts are used). Must have non-metallic bushings, spherical bearings are not allowed.
Rear sway bar, mounts, end links
Strut bars (not triangulated).
Battery, relocation of battery (to trunk).
Air Intake.
Headers.
Reprogrammed ECU or piggyback that controls ignition and fuel by modifying inputs to ECU.
Short-throw shifter.
Crankshaft and accessory pulleys.
Engine mounts (non-metallic).


STX Rules

All modifications from the STS rules are allowed. In addition, the following modifications are allowed:

Tires up to 245 width.
Wheels up to 8.0" width.
Brake rotors (diameter equal or larger than factory, ferrous or aluminum alloy).
Brake calipers (original attachment point).
Brake dust shield modifications to accomodate alternate rotors and calipers.
Uppipe (can be catless).
Turbo-back exhaust. Must contain at least one (high-flow) cat placed not more than 6" after the original exit of the last factory cat.
ECU reprogramming. Map must have unaltered factory boost maps.
Piggyback, see STS. No changes to boost control are permitted. Examples of allowed devices: Vishnu Unichip, Cobb Unichip without Boost Control Unit, Apexi S-AFC. Examples of illegal devices: TurboXS Unichip (controls boost), UTEC (acts as a standalone for timing control).


STU Rules

All modifications from the STX rules are allowed. In addition, the following modifications are allowed:

Wheels of any width (tire width still limited to 245 for AWD vehicles).


Street Prepared Rules (DSP/ESP)

All modifications from the STU rules are allowed, except for:

Removal of factory emblems (debadging).
Body kits (only front and rear spoiler allowed).
Non-standard brake rotors and calipers.
Front control arms and rear lateral links.


In addition, the following modifications are allowed:

Some updating/backdating with parts from different model years, see rule book for details.
Modification (e. g. rolling, cutting) of fenders for tire clearance. Adding of fender flares.
Seat (fully upholstered seating surface).
Remove seatbelt for replacement with harness that meets safety restrictions.
Any steering wheel.
Front spoiler.
Rear spoiler.
Removal of radio/stereo.
Any DOT approved tires (see rules for restrictions), including R-compounds, of any size.
Wheels of any size and offset.
Cross drilled and/or slotted brake rotors (ferrous, standard size, no two-piece).
Brake cylinder.
Fuel injectors and pump.
Intercooler (including hoses).
Intake water injection.
Turbo-back exhaust (no cats required).
Clutch (metal).
Flywheel (metal).
Shifter and shift linkage, e. g. short throw shifter.
Transmission mounts (non-metallic).
Differentials.
Standalone engine management for non-turbo car (?).
Port matching (see rule book).


Street Modified

Consult the rule book for details of the Street Modified rules. Street Modified inherits all allowances from Street Touring and Street Prepared. The following does not attempt to list all additional modifications that are legal in this class, it just lists a few popular mods that are common in Street Modified, but not allowed in Stock, Street Touring or Street Prepared:

Certain replaced body parts: e. g. carbon fiber hood, fenders.
Larger hood scoop, hood scoop splitter.
Removed rear seats.
Suspension control arms, lateral and trailing links.
Metal bushings, subframe bushings.
Different/updated turbo.
Blow-off valve.
Intercooler water spray (?).
Any kind of boost control (MBC, EBC).
Any other changes to boost control, like the popular resistor mod.
Engine management systems that modify boost, e. g. Unichip with boost control unit, as sold by TurboXS and Cobb, UTEC, or reflashed ECU with altered boost maps.
Standalone engine management.
Internal engine modifications.
Engine transplant with different Subaru engine.
Different/updated transmission.
Steering rack.


Beyond Street Modified

Consult the rule book for Prepared and Modified categories. The following list is just a reminder of a few popular mods that are not allowed in Stock, Street Touring, Street Prepared or Street Modified, they will put you into Prepared/Modified classes where you will be competing with race cars:

Replaced body parts not allowed in SM: e. g. trunk lid, STi bumper beams (?).
Weight reduction not explicitly allowed in SM: e. g. gutted interior, removed heater, wipers, lights.
Tires that are not DOT approved (racing slicks).
Anti-Lift Kit (relocates suspension mounting points).
Braces other than strut tower braces: triangulated braces (V-braces), lower arm braces.


Not Allowed In Any Class

The following are not allowed in any class:

Nitrous (bottles not allowed on event sites for safety reasons).


Uncertain Mods

No clear rules are currently available for the following popular mods:

Ground wire mod.


Common Questions


Can I run 17" wheels in Stock on my WRX? They are a factory option!
No, the 17" wheels are a dealer installed option, and are not allowed in Stock.
Why is my XYZ mod illegal? I ran with it all year, and tech never said anything!
Tech inspection is only responsible for checking if your car is safe. Properly classing your car is your own responsibility. Unless somebody files a protest, nobody will check if you have illegal mods for your class. Even if nobody ever protests, many people think that running with illegal mods is unfair and shows a lack of respect for your fellow competitors.


Additional Resources

Official rule book (http://www.scca.com/Solo/Index.asp?IdS=002EDA-ECBBCD0&x=050|070&~=) (available for download)
FasTrack (http://www.scca.com/Garage/Index.asp?IdS=00300B-2BED0C0&x=090|005&~=) (official SCCA publication containing latest rule changes)
Solo II information on SCCA web site (http://www.scca.com/Solo/Solo.asp?IdS=002EDA-ECBBCD0&x=050|010&~=)
Rules on moutons.org (http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/) (partly outdated)
Rules in table form (http://www.sff.net/people/dburkhead/prepcompare.htm) (seems to have a few mistakes)
Rule and car setup information at subrew.com (http://www.subrew.com)
SCCA Forums (http://www.sccaforums.com) (message boards)
Solo2.org (http://www.solo2.org) (message boards)

you sure ALK leaves you in Smod?

I was thinking modified suspension pick up points put you in prepared?

Great work...

For reference, I have asked these questions from a member of the SEB, Charlie Davis.


brake rotors. Currently in SP you cannot change the rotors or calipers unless it is available under the update/backdate rules. there is a proposal to change this for next year to allow the use of cross drilled and slotted rotors of the same diameter as stock.
I have been told that you cannot change the engine mounts unless available under update/backdate rules.
NO hardened gear sets or dogbox trannies. If you can't order it from the factory, can't do it.:( (where is the STI typeRa when you need it?)
Offset bushings are generally not allowed except when the ratio of metel to bushing material does not change.
No aluminum lower control arms. Sorry, has to be a factory installed item.
NO ALK!!! The ALK kit is not even legal for SM.:mad: Why? it changes the orientation of the lower control arm to provide more caster. This change in suspension geometry is not allowed in SM or SP.
replacment seats. In the STS/STX class, you can replace the seats with aftermarket units as long as it reclines. In SP and SM, go for it. you can use any seat you want as long as it's padded.

Originally posted by ellisnc
you sure ALK leaves you in Smod?
No, I'm not. That's why the title of that sections says "SM and Beyond". The SM rules look quite different from the S/ST/SP rules, and I must admit that I never even read the rules for Prepared and Modified. The idea of that section was really to list a few common mods that might bump you into an unexpectedly high class. I'm not qualified to explain SM rules, and it wasn't the goal. If somebody wants to build an SM/P/M car, they'd better get very familiar with the rule book before they even start.

Chris: Thanks for the remarks, I might have to check about some of these things another day. Just quickly:

I mentioned the STi engine mounts according to this STX rule: "Alternate motor mounts and/or engine locators (bobble struts) sold by the vehicle's manufacturer or their Motorsports subsidiary or affiliate (Chrysler/Mopar, Toyota/TRD , Honda/Mugen, etc.) are allowed."

STX has more generous rules for seats that STS: "Alternate driver and front passenger seats are allowed, but they cannot be constructed of a solid outer shell and must have a suspended bottom cushion and be fully upholstered." Note that they don't have to be reclining.

One thing IMHO about modding past DS and STS. If you do those, you might as well throw yourself in SM and have fun. In CP and whatnot you usually have few competitors and if someone has a REAL CP car you will get your arse kicked.

GREAT Job on the rules though!

Excellent job, sir; appreciate the time and effort. This ought to help a lot of people.
Len

Great job. Very clear and well organized reference for anyone who is unsure where they fit or contemplating additional mods. Thanks for your work.

After reading another thread, I have a question. Are data acquisition systems legal for auto-x? I don't recall seeing any mention in the rule book and I'm not sure this is really considered a mod. I'm not sure how useful it would be on an autocross course but it would be very nice for track days. I suppose you could just remove it for autocross . . .

TheWRX... I think Chris' list is referring to SP rules where things in STX cannot be carried over to SP (Additional items to add to your exclusion list... and they are all correct, none of the things Chris listed are legal in SP).

Also, I think there should be a note for STX that the rear differential mount is NOT considered a 'tranny' mount. (Reference April FasTrack for SP)

One thing IMHO about modding past DS and STS. If you do those, you might as well throw yourself in SM and have fun. In CP and whatnot you usually have few competitors and if someone has a REAL CP car you will get your arse kicked. Or STX on your way to SM as you can do Engine & Tranny Mounts and have unlimited brakes, yet don't have the cost of sticky race tires. :D

After reading another thread, I have a question. Are data acquisition systems legal for auto-x? Yes. As long as they are secured when running and when going through tech, make sure they know about it and they can see it secured. Things like GEEZ! paved the way for those types of systems.

Great job on the listing. :)

--kC

Can we make this a sticky?

oh yeah, bump...

Edited with minor updates for:

add "no rear differential mounts" in STX
add brake calipers in STX
tried to clarify seat regulations in STX and SP
no engine and transmission mounts in SP
mention transmission upgrade in "SM and Beyond"


Thanks to everybody for the positive response! Yes, I was hoping that this could be made STICKY.

Bump.
Yes.
Sticky....

Originally posted by TheWRX
Street Modified and Beyond
Larger hood scoop.


I've been running in the wrong group all along ...

Yup, don't try a larger scoop in stock or STS(X). Thats a illegal flow mod. You might be able to get away with it in STX but you will get yelled at for running something like that in stock class.

How about making this thread STICKY ? Great job of clarifying the rules that someone posts a question about, every other day or so.

DAMN, I'm gettin the ALK for my car.... so I gotta run in the modifieds....oh HELL NO!

Maybe I can make it look STOCK and no one will complain :)

I KNOW its not polite to be in the wrong category...but HELL, I'm a newbie and want to at least have a little experience before I jump into a higher category....plus I never compete for points and if I ever did, then I would run in the right category.

Originally posted by DDMan
DAMN, I'm gettin the ALK for my car.... so I gotta run in the modifieds....oh HELL NO!

Maybe I can make it look STOCK and no one will complain :)

I KNOW its not polite to be in the wrong category...but HELL, I'm a newbie and want to at least have a little experience before I jump into a higher category....plus I never compete for points and if I ever did, then I would run in the right category. That's just the wrong attitude. You know the rules and you wish not to abisde by them. Very nice.

If you're not going for points and just against yourself, then it doesn't matter what class you're in. :)

The thing to think about is... you have someone who's worked really hard to prep his car for the class, and is going for class points. Then you show up in your wrong classed car. If you finish AHEAD of them, you have now robbed them of their rightful points, because if you were classed right, then you shouldn't have been there in the 1st place. And if that one time you run you take enough points away from them to trophy at the end of the year? NOT a good idea.

Run in the class you belong in. Then you can compare your times to that in the class you WANTED to run in to figure how competitive you are.

You said yourself, you're not going for points... but what about the other people that are? Run in the proper class and you don't have to worry about taking points away from people.

--KC

Maybe I missed it, but it's worth noting that removing the intake silencer on the WRX is enough to put you into STS(X) as well.

Even though my car is bone stock otherwise, including the super-sticky RE92's:rolleyes: , my Kartboy shifter and "snorkellectomy" put me into STX. Doesn't seem fair, somehow! But "rules is rules"...

Excellent post. I also vote to make it a sticky.

Originally posted by BruceC
Maybe I missed it, but it's worth noting that removing the intake silencer on the WRX is enough to put you into STS(X) as well.
It's part of the general principle that probably can't be emphasized enough: If it's not listed as permitted, it's not allowed. And it doesn't say anywhere in the stock rules that you can remove 10(?) pounds of plactic from your air intake system.

The STX index is only very slightly higher than the one of DS, so unless you want to run race tires, it's a great class to run in if you like to make a few small mods to your car. It will probably require more $$$ to get your car really competitive on a high level in STX, but as long as your driving skills still need work, I wouldn't worry about that.

"snorkellectomy" definitely wins the prize for word of the day!
:lol:

I couldn't agree more with KC about bending the rules. Sure, if you're running in local events, and you're at the bottom of the rankings, most people won't care if you have an ALK on your car. But where do you draw the line? The next guy might be a little faster than you, and have more significant mods, is that still ok? There is a simple way to avoid these kinds of questions, which is by following the clear line that is given by the rule book.

Rule 13.10 A says "The engine air filter element may be removed or replaced. A replacement element which is taller than standard may not be used to hold the air cleaner cover open. No other components of the air induction system may be removed, replaced or modified"

With this rule, it means that you cannot modify the "snorkle". It might not be fair if you have a stock WRX with RE92s and a modified "snorkle". Then again you don't have a stock WRX anymore though :p :p

Anyways, think about it this way. I have a DS WRX with any and ALL allowable mods on it. Lets say that you would put the same mods on yours but also modify the "snorkle" and then beat my by 0.01 of a second. (I've seen margins like that and smaller all the time). Would it be "fair" then though? I think the "snorkle" is good enough for a few hundreths around a 60 seconds autox course. With margins of victory in the tenths and sometimes thousands every little rule should be followed.

I understand if you are new at autoxing and have something like a modified silencer and a short shifter, ask your competitors in your local class if they mind. Most of the time they won't unless you beat them. If you finish DFL then no big deal, but if you beat someone who has a totally stock car it becomes unfair.

-Tom
thats how I REALLY feel :lol: :lol: :lol:

Might want to clarify that body kits in STS means bumper covers, lips, spats,spoilers, etc. Light weight hoods and trunk lids have specificially been disallowed in fasttrack updates.

Also if your body kit is completely CF (as in a obvisious weight reduction attempt) you can be protested.

Originally posted by DDMan
DAMN, I'm gettin the ALK for my car.... so I gotta run in the modifieds....oh HELL NO!

Maybe I can make it look STOCK and no one will complain :)

I KNOW its not polite to be in the wrong category...but HELL, I'm a newbie and want to at least have a little experience before I jump into a higher category....plus I never compete for points and if I ever did, then I would run in the right category.


You're a jerk if you do that... If you don't care about points then what difference does it make what class you run in and where you finish in it? It probably doesn't make that much of a difference because you're probably such a slow driver that you'll always finish out of the points in D-stock anyway where Type R's will kick your ass. :mad:

actually sometimes it's more fun to run in a different class than all your Suby buddies because then you can watch them all drive later.

First off, I ran in GS...I have a 2.5.

And I KNOW its not polite, and next auto-x I WONT run in GS. At my first auto-x I had:

CAI (PDM intake)
Kartboy shifter and bushings
cat-back Magnaflow exhaust
20mm WRX rear swaybar

I was quite a bit out of the rules, but I think I learned alot. Next auto-x I will have the ALK and Lightweight pulleys. I will probly run in either STS or DSP (dunno which as of now)

The cool thing is that everyone I know should also be running in that class (who WAS running in stock categories last time).

Ill start being more fair, and sorry if I pissed anyone off :(

DDman,

the ALK kit puts you out of STS and DSP. Run if you want but be prepared to be protested.

I just found out that a friend of mine (PaulC) lost 2nd place because of a 240zx running a SR20T motor just 'cause he wanted to run with his friends. Now this guy was warned before he gridded, but still he managed to piss off more than his share of STS competitors running for points.

the only mod that puts you out of ESP which is what the WRX is classified in as far as I know is the ALK

but with your mods you'll probably get ripped up there anyway so feel free...:rolleyes:

what's the big deal with the ALK anyway, you can tune most of the understeer out of the car with roll bars and coilovers. And brake dive increases with it installed. I've heard it's a good mod but it's going to cause you a lot of headaches if you autocross your car that often.

I can almost promise you more than one person saw this thread here that will be at your next event and will protest you and they'll throw you right into Modifieds.

rules are rules, yeah you can't run with your friends... then don't do that mod, or take it off for every event.

now I have a question about the Cusco underbraces

can I run one in S Mod?

"Subframe connectors are allowed, but each connector must be attached individually without any lateral components attaching the two longitudinal frame rails. Subframe connectors may be bolted or welded"

or does this rule prohibit it? or is this rule talking about a subframe connector on like a Body on Frame car that connects the subframe together with the frame rails?

Originally posted by ellisnc
now I have a question about the Cusco underbraces

can I run one in S Mod?

"Subframe connectors are allowed, but each connector must be attached individually without any lateral components attaching the two longitudinal frame rails. Subframe connectors may be bolted or welded"

or does this rule prohibit it? or is this rule talking about a subframe connector on like a Body on Frame car that connects the subframe together with the frame rails?

you run in SM. The impreza does not have any SP legal subframe connector that I am aware of. But if you run a moostang, you can use the subframe connector from the convertable on the coupe under the update backdate rules.

also, if you have one of those cusco V braces on the rear struts that will also put you in SM.

Seriously tho...

A good set of shocks alone could out-do the ALK that Im gonna install. I plan on keepin the stock suspension, and even WITH the ALK in STS or DSP I shouldnt be causing too much trouble in terms of points. Some ppl are just pissy, and personally out of the 100 ppl who actually GO to the auto-x (CSCC) all the Subaru ppl could care less cuz about 60% of the ppl AT the auto-x are there just for fun.

If I knew points mattered, then I would worry, but I dont even think there are season points or anything with the auto-x ppl I run with. I honestly believe that the CSCC auto-x's are for fun only.

You never know who might be reading this. CSCC huh? Well, I will be at Hollywood Park Sunday too. And I run for points. But then I am in STX anyway. But there ARE guys who could throw the book at you! I WON'T say anything, but I will watch. And I strongly suggest you ASK the folks in STS before you do what you are saying you will. My year started off great the 1st event (in the rain), but now I am getting punted by a Prelude (Vince Wong) and an E30 //M3 (Robert Puertas). But I will NOT put any mod on my car that they can protest. If I win, I want it to be fair and square, otherwise it is a HOLLOW victory.

So, if you want the ALK on, and you say you are just running for FUN, then enter in the X Class, time only. You won't be stealing anything away from anyone in that class. Please be considerate of others. Also, if you are knowingly cheating, and then someone protests you, I will not stand by idly if you start bad mouthing them or SCCA on here cause they caught you. You would be bringing it upon yourself.

Damn, you guys jsut love ripping ppl apart.

If there WAS a class that I could run in that was time only, then I would...but there are none.

I don't know if it was mentioned or not. In STX you can run big brake kits and the PreCat on the WRX can be removed for a straight pipe like Shiv's up-pipe.

Midwayman:
As for the body kits. If I was to put on CF bumper covers. They can't do crap. That is all within the rules of body kits, but you can't replace or modify the bumper beams, fenders, hood and hood plates, trunk lid for lighter material. You can pull off that trim on the edge of the fender opening and bend that lip up but you can't flare OUT the fender..

One thing that can be done in STS since the introduction of the 2002 RS. Since it's in the same line in the SP rules as the 98, 99, 00 and 01 RS's (all it says is Impreza 2.5RS in the rules).You can update-backdate. You can remove the fog lamps and rear spoiler since it's not standard on the 02 RS. Remove the cruise control (not standard in the 98 RS) and replace your dual stage brake booster for a single that comes in the 98 RS.

ALK, NO!
not in STS, STX and SP.
Like DDMan, "A good set of shocks alone could out-do the ALK that Im gonna install." So there is really no need for it.

If you have questions about the rules for STS and STX and would like a great place to discuse it. Check out the STS/STX mailing list at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/streettouring/
Most of the big name drivers in STS post here.

Patrick Lipsinic
Kartboy Kustoms/ Falken Tires
MY00 Impreza 2.5RS BRP Sedan
SoloII STS #3

Damn, you guys jsut love ripping ppl apart.

No I don't. But do you like cheaters? Would you like someone to rob you of points? Would you want the embarrasment of being caught and publicly humiliated? Trust me, it might not stop there! You could be published in SCCA's Sports Car magazine for it.

Now here is another example. How many still like playing Counterstrike online anymore? With all the cheaters (using bots, the see through walls video driver, etc . . . ) now, many honest players have left the game. Some servers try to scan your HD for cheat files, and the game company makes patches - but then the cheaters overcome those too. So EVERYONE looses! Or take Delta Force Landwarrior? Cheaters have ruined that game so bad, there might never be another one made again! Now we are not only talking users who have lost some enjoyment in life, but companies who are loosing money. IS THAT FAIR?

What would be an honest thing to do, is to be open and ask ALL the guys in your class if they will allow you to use the ALK. They might. But, the rules are THE SAME for EVERYONE. Why is it that you can't play by them? We do. Thousands of us do.

If there WAS a class that I could run in that was time only, then I would...but there are none.

If you are talking Los Angeles Cal Club SCCA, there is "X" class which is time only. Your argument holds no water if that is where you are talking about.

If you have questions about the rules for STS and STX and would like a great place to discuse it. Check out the STS/STX mailing list at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/streettouring/
Most of the big name drivers in STS post here .

Gee, does that really include me Pat??? :)

Why doesn't the factory short shifter count as a factory installed option? I could see a Kart Boy SS but why the subaru one? TIA

Originally posted by quickgtp
Why doesn't the factory short shifter count as a factory installed option? I could see a Kart Boy SS but why the subaru one? TIA

the only way to argue it is if your car is yellow.:D The yellow WRX's came from the factory with the short shifter installed. everything else is a dealer or port installed option. that is the key. In order to be approved for stock the part needs to be installed at the factory, not at the port or dealer.

I don't know if it was mentioned or not. In STX you can run big brake kits and the PreCat on the WRX can be removed for a straight pipe like Shiv's up-pipe. Not in the rules...yet. No fastrack on it.

actually the Febuary fastrack (http://www.scca.org/news/fastrack/02-02.pdf) says that brakes (rotors and calipers) are un-restricted but must use original mounting points.

You may be able to squeak by the cat rules on the precat if you can verify (under protest ) that the cat in the down pipe is within 6" of the precat factory location:p

Since when did camber bolts become legal in STS? :confused: The way I understand it is that the use of "crash" or "camber" bolts must be listed as an authorized method from the manufacturer. And as far as I know Subaru does not list these types of bolts as a method for acheiving correct camber on a "tweaked" car. Therefore they are illegal.

Please correct me if I am wrong...

So what's the logic with the rule about debadging? Don't tell me its for weight saving ... :confused:

Originally posted by ChrisW
actually the Febuary fastrack (http://www.scca.org/news/fastrack/02-02.pdf) says that brakes (rotors and calipers) are un-restricted but must use original mounting points.

You may be able to squeak by the cat rules on the precat if you can verify (under protest ) that the cat in the down pipe is within 6" of the precat factory location:p

OOps I meant to remove the bit in the quote about the brakes. I was meaning to say the rules about the Uppipe/downpipe being removed/replaced are not published yet. SOrry.

(I have 4 pots and bigger brakes on my car. :D )

--kC

Originally posted by bemani
So what's the logic with the rule about debadging? Don't tell me its for weight saving ... :confused: It's an old rule that's been in the books since the beginning. You *can* do it in STS/X. :) Stock.... no. And it CAN be considered a weenie protest, but if you're debadged and you're in 1st, and the car in 2nd wants to be 1st, you CAN get called on it and lose.

I was speaking to a friend about it this past weekend. He attend a national event recently and finished mid-pack. He could have ended up in 3rd out of something like 18 by protesting all the debadged cars in front of him. Just wouldn't have made any friends. :)

--kC

Originally posted by Opie
Since when did camber bolts become legal in STS? :confused:
I don't know if they are. It didn't become clear to me from the rule book, and when I asked for clarification here, I didn't get a definitive answer. At least one web site I checked said that they were legal.

I know about the rule saying that they are legal in Stock if they are authorized by the shop manual, which I understand is not the case for Subaru. So they are illegal in STS/STX? What about SP?

What puzzles me, what is the big deal about the crash bolts, when real camber plates are allowed?

rear camber plates are allowed becuase of the struts used on the rear of the impreza (WRX, RS).

crash bolts are not allowed by the stock rules under 13.8

in SP it should be ok, I think 14.8.F allows for the use of crash bolts and offset bushings to set the alignment.

Originally posted by ChrisW
the only way to argue it is if your car is yellow.:D The yellow WRX's came from the factory with the short shifter installed. I have never heard this before, and can assure you my car did not have a short shifter.

Paul

Originally posted by Snowphun
I have never heard this before, and can assure you my car did not have a short shifter.

Paul

really?


huh... I have known two people that had yellow WRX's. Both had factory installed short shifters, I saw the factory invoice on one of them, and the short shifter was listed as a factory installed option.

The only difference between yellow and the other colors was the factory spoiler was required. That's it.

Paul

I love the fact that my stupid BOV alone puts me straight into Street Mod:lol:
The classifications are sooo dumb....I'm sure they did their best in inventing them but seriously cmon now. So I took my BOV and boost controller off for an AutoX yesterday...and I got put in STS because I have 17's. Now I find out I shoulda been in STX because the WRX has a turbo...but I wanna put my boost controller back on so that puts me into SM. Oh well...I'll have them swap my class to SM next time.

BTW I was only beat in STS by a highly modded M5...so much for following the rules...its 2 liters too big in engine size and ineligible for STX even...it should have been in SM or some prepared class i guess. The wheels are 2 inches too wide for STX. Well I must say this is very discouraging since it was my first SCCA event.

-Mike

There are many cars where a BOV is used as a "sort of" boost control. For example the 2G Eclipses. The stock BOV SUCKED. You could get another psi or two by putting on a 1G BOV. That wouldnt be fair....

Intake is stock....thats it...its easy

:D

Also if you were getting beat by a car that was wrongly classed, why did you not ask him to put himself in the correct class???

-Tom

Originally posted by trhoppe
There are many cars where a BOV is used as a "sort of" boost control. For example the 2G Eclipses. The stock BOV SUCKED. You could get another psi or two by putting on a 1G BOV. That wouldnt be fair....

Intake is stock....thats it...its easy

:D

Also if you were getting beat by a car that was wrongly classed, why did you not ask him to put himself in the correct class???

-Tom

tom,

while I totally agree with your argument. this 2nd Gen DSM deficency was corrected in either the March or April fasttrack. Starting next year the compressor bypass valve (aka BOV) is covered by the update backdate rules.:D We can't let those old sckewl F-bodies have too much of an advantage.:lol:

while I totally agree with your argument. this 2nd Gen DSM deficency was corrected in either the March or April fasttrack. Starting next year the compressor bypass valve (aka BOV) is covered by the update backdate rules. We can't let those old sckewl F-bodies have too much of an advantage. I don't think that's been agreed upon yet. They've submitted that for members comments. :)

Originally posted by KC
I don't think that's been agreed upon yet. They've submitted that for members comments. :)

yep, my bad. As a former DSM owner, it doesn't matter anymore:cool:. I feel much better in the land of blue

If I just have Larry's intake on my RS can I run in stock? It just replaces the air filter with a K&N and uses that crappy tube. I don't even remember what the stock air box looks like cause my dad did this mod while the car was his.

I can't compete with the guys in STS who have coilovers. :(

you can run stock but not legally...

maybe no one will care though, worse things have happened though like people trying to run D-stock with ALK's :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Sprchrd
If I just have Larry's intake on my RS can I run in stock? It just replaces the air filter with a K&N and uses that crappy tube. I don't even remember what the stock air box looks like cause my dad did this mod while the car was his.

I can't compete with the guys in STS who have coilovers. :(

ITs the DRIVER not the COILOVERS! Many ppl with coilovers probably don't know how to set them up anyway. Concentrate on your driving skills and you will be suprised!!!!

Originally posted by japriljr


ITs the DRIVER not the COILOVERS! Many ppl with coilovers probably don't know how to set them up anyway. Concentrate on your driving skills and you will be suprised!!!!

Thats true...Just by learning the feeling of the car in the corners and how hard to push it...I gained 3 sec, almost 4. Driving smooth is driving fast. Concentrate on how your driving before thinking your car needs a ton of upgrades.

This should help most of you. Its a download PDF file, so you need to have Adobe installed.

Novice Class Helper (http://www.scca-milwaukee.org/Solo/carmodandclassification.pdf)

When the drivers are all good thats when I look at mods. I was only 1-2 seconds off the guys that had coilovers and if you guys don't think that makes a difference over the stock suspension then you're crazy. There is only so far you can push it. And making generalizations about, "they probably don't know how to set them up anyway" is dumb.

edit - z3 coupe, thanks for that link. What it says there would make me legal for stock. It's just the air filter element that is changed and a tube that sticks down in the fender that runs up to it. I want to see something that says, "removal of the stock air box."

Here's the rule: SCCA 13.10 Engine and Drive Train
"The engine air filter element may be removed or replaced. A replacement element which is taller than standard may not be used to hold the air cleaner cover open. No other components of the air induction system may be removed, replaced or modified. "

The filter element is the filter panel itself that resides IN the box.

You can replace JUST the filter. The last part of the rule where they explain "No other components" means the box that contains the filter cannot be removed or modified.

Even on that pdf file it says... "Changed air filter element in STOCK airbox?" Do you have your complete stock airbox without adding anything or taking anything off? If so, then it's stock. If you have done any modifications to the stock airbox, it's no longer stock. :)

--kC

All this talk of protesting... Frankly, I doubt few here can get the most out of their car consistently enough to be beat by an illegal mod (such as debadging, ALK, short shifter). And if you protest someone for their car being debadged, chances are you'll get laughed at by the protest committe because its gives you no performance advantage what so ever. They will certainly not disqualify them for it. And on to the ALK, if someone shows up with it in STS, I wouldn't protest it. Why? Because caster adjustment is legal, maybe the way they're going about it is illegal but the end result is legal. You'd get the same result with camber/caster plates. Personally, I'd rather beat them out on the course than in some committe.

Just my tuppence.

Mark

OK, so for STX I understand that the hood scoop
cannot be changed and the IC cannot be changed.
Does that imply that the stock IC hoses cannot be
changed to silicone ones either?

Reto?

Originally posted by Tangmere
All this talk of protesting... Frankly, I doubt few here can get the most out of their car consistently enough to be beat by an illegal mod (such as debadging, ALK, short shifter). And if you protest someone for their car being debadged, chances are you'll get laughed at by the protest committe because its gives you no performance advantage what so ever. They will certainly not disqualify them for it. And on to the ALK, if someone shows up with it in STS, I wouldn't protest it. Why? Because caster adjustment is legal, maybe the way they're going about it is illegal but the end result is legal. You'd get the same result with camber/caster plates. Personally, I'd rather beat them out on the course than in some committe.

Just my tuppence.

Mark Whoa back it up here a second... this thread is discussion of THE RULES. Not... "What can I get away with."

This thread was set up to discuss what rules there are, what mods are legal, and what mods will throw you into a different class.

This talk of protests will happen on a national level (Tour/Pro/Championship... where the rules should be followed) Local levels it's run what ya brung. :)

If you wish to start another thread of 'I don't think that's right just because I did this' go right ahead. That's not what this thread is for. This is supposed to be a thread if someone has a question about a certian item TO BE CLASS LEGAL, then we'll help them figure it out.

Just that if we tell you that your parts throw your car into a different class, and you disagree, please remember.. we don't write the rules and many of them we agree are silly. :D

--KC

icelatte, you are correct. IC hoses will put you in Street prepared.

KC,
Did you even read my post? Where does it say I'm doing anything illegal and trying to get away with it?

Mark

Being that the flavor of SM rules are to allow the more common street modifications, we might be successful in petitioning to make the ALK legal.

How would one go about this?

icelatte, you are correct. IC hoses will put you in Street prepared.
Can't you change your hoses in STOCK class?
Silicone replacement hoses are permitted as alternate components, provided they meet the requirements of section 13.0 with regard to size, shape, location, and performance equivalence.

uhhm those hoses are NOT legal in stock class.

they are ONLY allowed if they are IDENTICAL and I mean friggin IDENTICAL to stock. The Samco hoses aren't even close to being stock so they are not allowed.

-Tom

Bummer... I may even actually get my IC hoses one day (go look at Samco Hose Group Buy... only 5 months late).
The main bonus for me with the IC hoses is how much easier it makes putting the silly IC back in. The stock hose blows when replacing the IC. Oh well, another compramise for goofy SCCA rules.

Originally posted by ChrisW
crash bolts are not allowed by the stock rules under 13.8

in SP it should be ok, I think 14.8.F allows for the use of crash bolts and offset bushings to set the alignment.
Then they should be ok for STS, too, 17.8.F in the STS rule has the same wording as 14.8.F in the SP rules.

Original post updated with changes to STX rules (wheel width, exhaust).

Moderators: Any chance of making this sticky, please? This was started in response to a request for a new sticky about Auto-X rules after the old one became victim of an accident.

Originally posted by TheWRX
Moderators: Any chance of making this sticky, please? This was started in response to a request for a new sticky about Auto-X rules after the old one became victim of an accident.

Mods?

ttt

Originally posted by TheWRX
Original post updated with changes to STX rules (wheel width, exhaust).

Moderators: Any chance of making this sticky, please? This was started in response to a request for a new sticky about Auto-X rules after the old one became victim of an accident.


any moderators listening?


ttt

so, if some guy comes in and races in a local event (no points or anything) and beats you, should you 'protest' and if so what is the 'official' way to go about it.... i don't care that he has a short throw shifter, w/ a snorkelectomy as long as he is finishing BEHIND me, but once he starts beating me, then we have issues.......

exactly...

there was this guy running an ITR with a straight pipe this weekend that was really loud... I mean louder than the Mustangs and everything else out there. He was running STX... had he been in my class and won it with me finishing 2nd I'd protest him.

I felt like if he can do that, I'm just going to let my downpipe exit under the car and not worry about a muffler...

I mean what's the point... on an ITR you'd gain like maybe 2 hp by doing that:rolleyes:

I felt like if he can do that, I'm just going to let my downpipe exit under the car and not worry about a muffler...

I mean what's the point... on an ITR you'd gain like maybe 2 hp by doing
Well you can do that if you want as long as it exits after the last cat (in DS anyways) and thats what I do and a lot of drivers do. It gains you a few HP and it also saves 30-40lbs off the car. Thats a LOT.

Check this out, I use this as my reasoning, these are the CS results from last years national championship.

3T 193 Randy Chase 52.102

4T 195 Randy Noll 52.109

5T 92 Barry Ott 52.121

6T 141 Glen Hernandez 52.163

7T 72 Lee Piccione 52.166

The difference in 7th and 3rd was 6 hundreths of a sec. Thats 10 lbs taken off the car, much less then the 30 or 40 gained by dropping a cat back.

-Tom

yeah I realized this after I clicked submit and was too lazy to change it.

About the muffler: You can replace the muffler in any class. The rules are very vague about noise. "Any car deemed by the Event Chairman or his designated representative to be excessively loud shall not compete without acceptable modifications installed on the car." I think some regions have firmer noise restrictions.

This thread is intended for rule questions. If you want to start a discussion about if/when/how to protest, it might be better to start a new thread.

That being said: Pages 70-75 of the rulebook explain protests. I would go to an event official, they will at least be able to point you in the right direction. Each event has a protest committee, at our events the list of members is posted on the registration truck. If it's nothing major, especially at a local event, I would just go to the driver, and talk to him. I personally believe that it's always best to resolve issues in a constructive way if it's possible, and a protest might well result in bad blood.

All of my mods seem to fit into the DSP except two listed below, could someone help me out. I have full STi drivetrain mounts, this includes motor+tranny+pitch stop+diff mounts, and my rear seat is removed/with lap belts so the dont clank around on the metal. which class should I be running, DSM?

PLEASE HELP, thanks.

Chris.:confused:

Originally posted by subyguy2
All of my mods seem to fit into the DSP except two listed below, could someone help me out. I have full STi drivetrain mounts, this includes motor+tranny+pitch stop+diff mounts, and my rear seat is removed/with lap belts so the dont clank around on the metal. which class should I be running, DSM?

PLEASE HELP, thanks.

Chris.:confused:

The diff mounts are not legal in Street prepared. It looks like your either in Street mod, or possibly one of the prepared classes.

Yup, SM looks to be it for you.

Oh well, doesn't affect how much fun Ill have, DSM it is. :D
Thank you guys for responding, I run this Sunday. second autocross!

Chris.

Street Mod is not a "category" like Street Prepared and Stock. This means it is just one big catch-all class. There is a Modified category that is classed AMod - EMod.

Cool, I just went to check out the rules, I looked at SM and SM2. Looks like Im in SM:) . Rear seat removal allowed, diff mounts allowed, weight minimum 2,400 for AWD under 3 liters, and all of the allowances from Street Touring and Street Prepared carry over. Sweet. Thanks for everyones help.

Chris.

Best of all R-compound tires...!
I run the new Ecsta V700 and they are awsome!
STX will take a while to develope...Racing against some real(read experienced) competition in SM is the way to go for now!
last race...2nd place(by .098sec) to a fully prepped SS Camaro with a whole heck of alot of MOTOR !!!
Ran in the top 10's fast times all day! 22nd on the PAX!out of 126 cars!
tailout

Originally posted by tailout
Best of all R-compound tires...!
I run the new Ecsta V700 and they are awsome!
STX will take a while to develope...Racing against some real(read experienced) competition in SM is the way to go for now!
last race...2nd place(by .098sec) to a fully prepped SS Camaro with a whole heck of alot of MOTOR !!!
Ran in the top 10's fast times all day! 22nd on the PAX!out of 126 cars!
tailout

see, that my arguemnt for ESP. You can beat those moostangs and F-bodies in ESP. It's been done without the help of the rain:D

the problem is just about anything you do to our motor puts you in SM... IC hoses, boost controller, ECU, decat

I was just checking our results page...there were only like 11-12 times faster than mine...
22nd on the PAX...does SM have a tough index?
tailout

Quick ? My cats are shot right now, and I was thinking of replacing it with a random tech hi-flo. I currently run DSP in local events. Will the hi-flo cat move me out of DSP and into SM or not?
I'm not really worried what class I run because I only do it for fun.
I just want to know the class in case I go to an SCCA event.

Later
Matt

Originally posted by ellisnc
the problem is just about anything you do to our motor puts you in SM... IC hoses, boost controller, ECU, decat


no no no.... only the boost controller and ECU replacement would put you in SM.

If you use the Vishnu stage 0 without the boost controller, it's ESP legal (the pullys are questionable, but you should be ok)

ttt

ChrisW,
Read the last sentance on this page from an article by one of our local hot shoes...
http://www.alscca.org/solo2/tips.shtml

I just thought that was funny.

:D :lol: I like his spelling better than mine:D

I need some opinions...

Based upon the brake rules can you modify the pedel assembly (throttle, brake & clutch)

looking at the rules, it's not clear. My plan to remove/hack and or otherwise modify the brake system depends on my ability to modify the pedel assembly. My plan is to remove the brake booster, in case your interested.

why you might ask.... ever try LFB while under boost?:eek:

the fall back plan (read: the most likely senario) would be to add a vaccuum resevior in front of the brake booster.

But still, can we modify the pedel assemby in the rules for street prepared?

Chris,

http://moutons.org/sccasolo/Rules/sp.html#s146

That's a good question. The ruling says you CAN remove the brake booster. Whether the resulting product of doing this is legal or not is unclear.

IMHO, modifying the pedal assembly is not legal. The ol' "if it doesn't say it" rigamarole.

If your intent is local events, who cares? National events is where you may fall into problems. Big block guys in ESP don't like getting beat by turbo 4-bangers. ;)

--KC

well, my intent is the nationals...


I think I can, I think I can, I think I can....:D

A couple of friends of mine entered the national tour in atwater. They didn't do to well, but it gave me a good indication of the level of compitition.

the question of the day is, in the street prepared rules, can I pull another 2 seconds on average? maybe. especially with more seat time.

bump.

this should be sticky.

Well folks, come on out and help! On the StreetTouring mailing list, there is talk that STX needs to do well this year (its 1st year????), or it might not last till the next! This, next to SM, are the BEST classes to put modified WRX's in! It was darn near made for us. I will make another post just for this. The word needs to get out there!

Originally posted by ChrisW



no no no.... only the boost controller and ECU replacement would put you in SM.

If you use the Vishnu stage 0 without the boost controller, it's ESP legal (the pullys are questionable, but you should be ok)

Huh :confused: I thought Vishnu stage 0 deleted a cat in the up pipe and I thought you couldn't do that in ESP?

Joe

Originally posted by veloLexus
Huh :confused: I thought Vishnu stage 0 deleted a cat in the up pipe and I thought you couldn't do that in ESP?
That's fine in SP. Rule 14.10.E: "Emission control devices may be modified or removed." And maybe 14.10.H: "Exhaust manifolds and muffler systems are free, except that they must be quiet and terminate behind the driver."

The cat-less uppipe is even legal in STX now, after the latest rule revisions.

I have a question on ECU replacement under street prepared.

This is not just a subie question but in general, can you replace the ECU with an aftermarket unit (direct replacement or by a chip)?

I am under the impresison that you can't and such a replacement would put you in SM. The reason I ask, is because aparently, some of the ESP members are running chipped cars at the recent national tour in atwater, CA.

I know that piggyback ECU's like the S-AFC and the unichip are legal, but a ECU replacement?:confused:

So the aluminum A-arms put me in SM or SP or what?

Where do you guys get all of this info, from the rule books($$) or is there somewhere online with this stuff?

Also, where would STi trailing and lateral links put me(they've got pillow ball mounts instead of bushings)

And, kartboy endlinks(aluminum and smaller than stock...(change of location of sway bar...?))

Dan

Originally posted by Zahnster
So the aluminum A-arms put me in SM or SP or what?

Where do you guys get all of this info, from the rule books($$) or is there somewhere online with this stuff?

Also, where would STi trailing and lateral links put me(they've got pillow ball mounts instead of bushings)

And, kartboy endlinks(aluminum and smaller than stock...(change of location of sway bar...?))

Dan

the control arms would put you into DSP...

I think the links would either put you into DSP or straight DP...

We get all this info straight from the rulebook :)

http://www.scca.org/news/index.html#comp_regs

The endlinks for the swaybar should be ok to use for SP class.

The Sti links should be ok for SM as long as you are not changing geometry.

I think SM would be the class for you!

-Tom

Originally posted by Zahnster
So the aluminum A-arms put me in SM or SP or what?

Where do you guys get all of this info, from the rule books($$) or is there somewhere online with this stuff?

Also, where would STi trailing and lateral links put me(they've got pillow ball mounts instead of bushings)

And, kartboy endlinks(aluminum and smaller than stock...(change of location of sway bar...?))

Dan

I asked Charlie Davis (SEB board member) the same question.

Anything that cannot be ordered on the car from the factory will put you out of street touring or street prepared. If you can order it and demonstrate that the part is on the factory build sheet or invoice then it is legal for street prepared or street touring.

the aluminum lower control arms and STI suspension bits should be good for street mod.

The kartboy endlinks should be SP and ST legal.

Originally posted by ChrisW


I asked Charlie Davis (SEB board member) the same question.

Anything that cannot be ordered on the car from the factory will put you out of street touring or street prepared. If you can order it and demonstrate that the part is on the factory build sheet or invoice then it is legal for street prepared or street touring.

the aluminum lower control arms and STI suspension bits should be good for street mod.

The kartboy endlinks should be SP and ST legal. Ummm Can you clarify this there champ? :)

The car is delivered with lower control arms, just not with the specific aluminums ones. What you just said above as such a blanket statement is totally untrue for the person just reading this thread and want's to get into STS and auto-xing. Your phrase "Anything that cannot be ordered on the car from the factory will put you out of street touring or street prepared." would invalidate any modifications done at all on a car... because no car comes from the factory with things like adjustable coilovers, endlinks, etc....

You may want to make that a little clearer. :)

--kC

Has anyone asked about the legality of the Samco Turbo Inlet hose for STX? I'm not 100% certain which way it falls. It's after the MAF, but before the turbo.

Originally posted by KC
Ummm Can you clarify this there champ? :)

The car is delivered with lower control arms, just not with the specific aluminums ones. What you just said above as such a blanket statement is totally untrue for the person just reading this thread and want's to get into STS and auto-xing. Your phrase "Anything that cannot be ordered on the car from the factory will put you out of street touring or street prepared." would invalidate any modifications done at all on a car... because no car comes from the factory with things like adjustable coilovers, endlinks, etc....

You may want to make that a little clearer. :)

--kC

Ok, yeah, it may not be too clear. Thanks for pointing that out KC.

If you could order a WRX with aluminum lower control arms installed at the factory, then it would be legal.

Basically, if it can't be installed on the car while it's built on the assembly line, you can't install it on your car and call it a "factory item" even though it has factory part numbers.

Now when ever we get the STI over here, and assuming the STI has the aluminum lower control arms along with the other suspension bits that we all want to use in STX, STS, or ESP, then these parts would fall under the update backdate rules.

I am not sure how the update backdate rules apply to the stock classes.

OrionF, the samco turbo inlet hoses might be considered part of the intercooler system. I checked my service manuals and it's not clear to me if the inlet hose is considered part of the air intake or intercooler system. If it is part of the air intake, then it should be legal as part of a cold air intake.

The following rules are in question

13.10-a The engine air filter element may be removed or replaced. A replacement element which is taller than standard may not be used to hold the air cleaner cover open. No other components of the air induction system may be removed, replaced or modified.

and 17.10-b Alternate air cleaner enclosures up to carburetor or throttlebody. This does not allow any changes to intercoolers.

If you have put on the samco Y pipe for the intercooler, then your definately out of ST and into SP or SM.

Originally posted by ChrisW

OrionF, the samco turbo inlet hoses might be considered part of the intercooler system. I checked my service manuals and it's not clear to me if the inlet hose is considered part of the air intake or intercooler system. If it is part of the air intake, then it should be legal as part of a cold air intake.

The following rules are in question

13.10-a The engine air filter element may be removed or replaced. A replacement element which is taller than standard may not be used to hold the air cleaner cover open. No other components of the air induction system may be removed, replaced or modified.

and 17.10-b Alternate air cleaner enclosures up to carburetor or throttlebody. This does not allow any changes to intercoolers.

If you have put on the samco Y pipe for the intercooler, then your definately out of ST and into SP or SM.

I'm fully aware of the IC hoses and any IC changes and BOV being illegal. I'm wondering if we'd be able to clarify it as part of a CAI since it is part of the only outside air source coming into the car. The IC 'Y' hose feeds the TB but is excluded as a change to the IC. I would definitely argue the Turbo Inlet as being part of the 'alternate air cleaner enclosure' as any CAI could be made to include this particular hose.

autox class question for wrx


can i use a alk in esp/stx/sm if i DONT use the "square gold pieces" that changes the controller arms angel?

i thought just using the circular bushing would help a bit since the stock ones are squishy...yah im talking like im 5, sorry.

Yes, replacing just the bushings in the stock control arm mounts is perfectly legal.

It's the replacement brackets that are illegal, not the bushings.

Sean
www.subrew.com

1) How about DIY Intercooler Water Sprayers ? If not allowed, is pulling the fuse enough to satisfy? 2) How about Icing of Intercooler before run?

Originally posted by Mark B.
1) How about DIY Intercooler Water Sprayers ? If not allowed, is pulling the fuse enough to satisfy? 2) How about Icing of Intercooler before run?

nope... Can't have the IC sprayers installed and expect to run in STX or ESP, even if you pull the fuse.

Icing the intercooler is Ok, but takes lots of ice.

Revisiting the Aluminum Control Arm(ACA) issue. In Suspension forum:
http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=2020557

We've been discussing how this affects AutoX classing and he's saying the ACA is just as bad as the ALK since the pieces that come on it are basically an ALK. If the ALK is not legal in SM, that pushes on into prepared right? Is prepared like SM without seperation or is there actually D Prepared?

P.S. Great rules site here if only the SCCA site filled the gaps better. Guess it's all about selling their rule books. http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/index.shtml

I'll be contacting a couple people to resolve the differences in the ACA mount and the OEM CA mount tonight.;)

We'll get to the bottom of this yet!:)

I want to find out for myself as I'd LOVE to get the STi kit and install everything but the metal bushings.

It looks like the matter has been cleared up. The ACA does not include an ALK. The part it replaces is identical, but the bushing is different(much harder). As explained in the thread I linked to immediatly above.

The Whitelane ALK is the only ALK.

Zahnster,

the next question is: Are there any changes to the gemoetry of the suspension? If there are changes to the caster, camber then you might not survive a protest in STX or ESP.

Assuming you have installed the ACA, and there are no changes to the alignment settings (from the ACA replacement) then it looks like a good SM upgrade.:D

The Metal piece highlighted in the thread is identical. The only difference is the bushing inside. As far as the ACA itself. Again I think it's all about stiffness. It does not offer any more castor than stock. The only camber changes are whatever you can wring out of the eccentric bolt on the front struts.

-So I guess a question is with the ACA are you in SM or can you still be in STX?

Originally posted by Zahnster
-So I guess a question is with the ACA are you in SM or can you still be in STX?

that, my friend, is the question of the day...:confused: I would tend to think that my earlier post on this thread is relivant.

Since you can't order it as a factory option, my first reaction would be no; for the same reasons we can't use STI suspension bits in STX or SP.

Hopefully I am wrong.;)

We need an STi so we can update/backdate :-)

SM it is then. Forgot that we already covered that earlier.

I read the faq thing first, but I saw no mention of camshafts.
I ordered the cobb tuning street camshafts. What class will that put me in?
my other mods are:
17X7.5 in rims
Intake
rear anti-roll bar

Is the Subaru made short throw kit legal for the stock catagory?

The cams will put you into SM. Cams are an item that are quite restricted in SCCA Autocross. Can't even change them in Street Prepared classes.

Chris H.
www.subrew.com

Originally posted by Gravelstar
Is the Subaru made short throw kit legal for the stock catagory? No, not legal for stock. It's dealer installed.

I thought this had been resolved. Its installed at the PORT, which is owned by SoA - thus is FACTORY installed. And is also on the window invoice from SoA. Its the Kartboy that is for sure not legal.

port installed options are considered the same as dealer installed options.

Has anyone ever gotten an actual verdict from Howard, or seen this in print in Fast Track???

port employees = SoA
dealer mechanics = dealer

So where does port installed have anything to do with the dealer? Not one dealer's folks have touched the car. The cars are shipped here pretty much bare bones, and what is missing from the factory invoice is installed here. Part of this is to conform to the National Content laws requiring X amount of parts being from the country it is being shipped to and sold in (USA in this situation).

What about aftermarket clutches and lightened flywheels? I haven't been able to find any info on their legality (I'm interested for STS), I hope this doesn't fall under the "If it doesn't say it can be replaced it can't" rule.

Brood

Originally posted by Brood
What about aftermarket clutches and lightened flywheels?
Street Prepared. Not allowed in STS.

Street Prepared. Not allowed in STS.

Would either one of these put you in street prepared, or just one of them?
What about aftermarket clutches and lightened flywheels?

So What About Fuel????

Hey, folks, here's a new one- in STX, what, if any, are legal options for fuel?

3.6 (A) says "Stock class vehicles will use service station pump fuel only. Pump fuel is defined as that which is Federally approved for use on public highways. This does not allow racing-type fuels which are available at service station pumps."
3.6 (B) then says "Street Prepared, Prepared, and Modified class vehicles may use any grade of gasoline. Gasolines consist entirely of hydrocarbon compounds. Gasoline may contain antioxidants, metal deactivators, corrosion inhibitors, and lead alkyl compounds such as tetraethyl lead. Oxygen and/or nitrogen bearing additives are prohibited except for those present in service station pump fuel."

So, what about Street Touring classes?? How to interpret the silence in the fuel rules for STS/X? Both the ST and SP start with references to Stock Class (ST-"all the Stock category allowances and the modifications that follow...", SP-"all allowable modifications in Stock Category are allowed....may only be modified in excess of Stock...rules in the following ways...".)

Specifically;
-what about racing gasoline available at a service station pump?
-what about various commercially available octane enhancers??

I suspect somebody has run this by the SEB, but there's nothing in the Appendix F Clarifications....

Len

What this means IMHO is that in stock class you cannot run leaded gas. You have to buy gas that is approved for use on public highways. You cannot buy 116 octane turbo blue, but you can buy the 104 unleaded thats available at some BP and Sonoco gas stations because that gas, says right on the pump, IS intended for use on highways.

-Tom

Originally posted by Brood
What about aftermarket clutches and lightened flywheels? I haven't been able to find any info on their legality (I'm interested for STS), I hope this doesn't fall under the "If it doesn't say it can be replaced it can't" rule.

Brood

If it is aftermarket, and not specifically written in the rules, then the part in question is not allowed.

So, for Street Touring (STS, STX) no lightened flywheels, no aftermarket clutches

Is it legal in Street Mod to slot the front strut towers to achieve *caster* adjustment?

I know it's legal to slot the oem mounting holes to achieve camber adjustment, but I don't know about caster.

Austin,

should be ok under rule 14.8-D
14.8.D
On vehicles with strut-type suspensions, adjustable camber plates may be installed at the top of the strut, and the original upper mounting holes may be slotted. The drilling of holes in order to perform the installation is permitted but the center clearance hole may not be modified. Any type of bearing or bushing may be used in the adjustable camber plate attachment to the strut. The installation may incorporate an alternate upper spring perch/seat and/or mounting block (bearing mount). Any ride height change resulting from installation of camber plates is allowed. Caster changes resulting from the use of camber places are permitted.

It clearly states that you can slot your upper mounting holes. your only limitation is the hole for the strut top cannot be modified, but the holes for strut top studs can be slotted.

I've read that rule... but I still don't see it as clear cut. It would not be a "caster change resulting from the use of camber plates"...

It seems to me the rule is implying that you are only allowed to slot the strut top mounting holes to achieve camber adjustment. The only place it mentions caster is to say that any caster added as a byproduct of using camber plates is OK, but not that you can slot the mounting holes *specifically* for caster adjustment.

Not that I'm argueing with you... but I'd hate to drill my strut towers and then find that I'm bumped out of SM for it...

This answered alot of my questions. I will stop modding my car now I have gone way to far already. Had to take off the BOV and boost controller to stay in STX. I am a novice I will learn how to drive now. Only cosmetic things for me like leather seats that wont bump me any classes right.

GREAT Natasha Talarico, and welcome to our addiction :)


I will stop modding my car now I have gone way to far already. Had to take off the BOV and boost controller to stay in STX.

This is exactly why I have been trying to push for SoA, SCCA, and the local Dealers to communicate. That way, IF a new Sube owner wants to mod their cars, the dealer at the local level is informed of what is what - meaning ASK the new owner what he wants to do with his car. And if there is any remote possibility that he may AutoX it, then help guide him with legal mods. That way, you never have to say you spent the $$$$, and now have to remove it, you look more informed, and the person never comes back at you for wasting his money. Sure, it is the responsibility of the owner to know what he is doing - but how many out there really know what AutoX is? They only know the drags and illegal street racing. So we have got to work together to help :)

By dealer do you mean the place that I bought the car. The way the Subaru is voiding warranties I would lie anyway and say that I only plant to drive the car on Sundays to and from church.

Natasha

yes, yes. on sundays to and from church.
that's what we ALL do in here. only drive subies on sundays to and from church....

What confusion this all is, huh? SoA gives a FREE SCCA membership with purchase of a WRX, SoA sponsors SCCA Solo II and PRO Rally, SoA gives contingency money out for wins in classes (not yet STX, but STS which DOES use mods!!!!), many, and I mean many dealers are dead in the water if they do not have a mod department (some, like Irvine and Renick even have a spearate department just for mod parts!!!!!!) - and yet they wantonly void warranties left and right???? ****

But seriously, if the dealers were knowledgeable about AutoX (instead of ONLY catering to the illegal street racers or draggers), then the new owner can mod his car within the rules and not have wasted money on mods he now has to remove.

**** I had a problem with my BMW Z3 Coupe and BMW by the way. When I bought it in to have the heater resistor replaced, as well as the reat hatch struts, the BMWNA rep was there. He rudely interupted my service writer and told him he wanted to talk to him. Turns out he saw my stickers on the window (SCCA and BMECCA), and flipped out! Voided my entire car! Like an AutoX would make the resistor and hatch struts fail???? But what Mr Jerk did not realize, was that I WAS a member of BMWCCA - and if he voided my car for AutoX, then that would make EVERY BMW that did a BMWCCA AutoX or DE void as well! And you think BMWCCA would get by with just picnics or show cars??? So I got on the horn and made a noise. My car DID get taken care of then. But now if us Sube owners could get something going like BMWCCA, then we too would have some clout.

Later, when the dust settled, I heard the rest of the story. That rep was having a real bad day. He was there to see a brand new M5 with a blown trans, and a BRAND NEW E46 //M3 with a blown motor for warranty work. And get this - both cars owned by the SAME GUY! So needless to say, by the time he saw my car . . . . .

I am currently looking for info reguarding the replacement of the stock radiator with a performance radiator as well as new hosing.

I am already in ESP with my WRX.

Thanks

Originally posted by SHObaru
I am currently looking for info reguarding the replacement of the stock radiator with a performance radiator as well as new hosing.

I am already in ESP with my WRX.

Thanks

Should be perfectly legal for ESP.

I'm sorry Chris, Thanks for playing...Originally posted by ChrisW


Should be perfectly legal for ESP.

There is no allowance for radiator replacement in Street Prepared catagory.

WRXster,

I am not disputing your statement, but are you sure about that?

I know of several people that have competed in both national tours and pro-solo events with aftermarket replacement radiators.

oops,

my bad, car in question is a moostang, and the 93 cobra R came with a aluminum radiator.:rolleyes:

With respect to dealer and/or port installed options, the rulebook has this to say;

12.4 Standard Part

"An item of standard or optional equipment that could have been ordered with the car, installed on the factory production line, and delivered through a dealer in the United States. Dealer-installed options or deletions (except as required by factory directives ), no matter how common or what their origin, are not included in this definition. This definition does not allow the updating or backdating of parts."

I don't think a clarification from Howard is necessary, the rules plainly state that unless the part was installed on the factory production line, it is not a legal standard part. The port of delivery is not the factory production line.

Also, going way back to the beginning of this thread; both the Impreza RS and WRX are legal for E Prepared under the Subaru catch-all.

Also also, SM2 would be a possible class for both Imprezas, if they were underweight for SM. ( And I bet you could get a turbo'd RS under the applicable 2600 pound minimum weight, if you tried. ) If you're too light for SM2 ( 2300 lbs ), you'd go to EM ( 1700 lbs ) then AM.
At which point your car would consist largely of paper mache.

I am pretty sure last year you couldnt have headers. But is this true for this year??

Would a full MRT headerback exhaust system be legal in STS for a my01 RS - or would I need to add another cat?

Thanks,
-justin

Originally posted by Blindeye_03
I am pretty sure last year you couldnt have headers. But is this true for this year??

Would a full MRT headerback exhaust system be legal in STS for a my01 RS - or would I need to add another cat?

Thanks,
-justin

AFAIK, headers have been legal since last year or before (my brother was in STS last year as well, and had headers).
Anyway, headers are legal for replacement in STS, but not cats. You cannot touch the cats in STS, period. It's not just that you have to have some, you must leave the stock cats in place. So, you can replace everything between the cylinder block and the cats (headers), and everything after the cats (midpipe, can), but must leave the stock cats in place. Did i mention that you can't touch the stock cats? ;]

I mention it so much 'cause i wanted to do the MRT as well. There is an allowance in STX for replacement of cats with high performance models, i think. Someone here knows more about that, z3coupe maybe?

[edit: left out words here there]

Originally posted by jeddy


AFAIK, headers have been legal since last year or before (my brother was in STS last year as well, and had headers).
Anyway, headers are legal for replacement in STS, but not cats. You cannot touch the cats in STS, period. It's not just that you have to have some, you must leave the stock cats in place. So, you can replace everything between the cylinder block and the cats (headers), and everything after the cats (midpipe, can), but must leave the stock cats in place. Did i mention that you can't touch the stock cats? ;]

I mention it so much 'cause i wanted to do the MRT as well. There is an allowance in STX for replacement of cats with high performance models, i think. Someone here knows more about that, z3coupe maybe?

[edit: left out words here there]

So, what if you welded two subaru OE cats onto the MRT header and midpipe?

This is one thing about sts that bothers me. Its not like a highflow will give THAT much more power over stock cats.

Im guessing that Borla headers will bolt up to the OE cats.

thanks,
-justin

Headers have been allowed in STS since its creation. If you placed the cats EXACTLY in their stock location you could get away with it in STS. And yes, the Borla header bolt up to the OEM cat.

Originally posted by Crosser
Headers have been allowed in STS since its creation. If you placed the cats EXACTLY in their stock location you could get away with it in STS. And yes, the Borla header bolt up to the OEM cat.

The MRT are equal length and beautiful :(. I guess I might go to SM. BAH. I dont understand SCCA.

STX is alot like STS.

STX allows mods to the cats, whereas STS doesnt. Does this make sense? Or am I the confused one?

-justin

Originally posted by Blindeye_03


So, what if you welded two subaru OE cats onto the MRT header and midpipe?

This is one thing about sts that bothers me. Its not like a highflow will give THAT much more power over stock cats.


Another thing i wanted to do. =]

I know it sounds crappy, but "them's the rules", so we live with em until they change. There are a lot of mods that "don't give that much more power" that are still not legal: removing hood vent/scoop plates is a good example.

I'm actually at the point where i've stopped thinking about buying stuff, because i'd have to compromise to stay in STS. Since i'm not ready to move to SM yet, and i'm really happy with how my car handles and performs right now (and it's competitive as it is), i just decided to stop buying and stay in STS.

Sorry I am late. . . . . .

STX new rule allows removal of 2 out of our 3 cats, and the one remaining can be put anywhere on the car. But it does have to at least meet Fed smog. I am working with Ian at PDE on building an STX legal system at this moment.

But also, has anyone read the latest Fasttrack? There is a blur in there that says something about deleting 2 lines concerning the PULLEY rule. So maybe we CAN use the UD pulleys now???

Could you elaborate on that blurb? There is a statement saying that about allowing any pulley in SP now, nothing about STS/STX however. I was wondering about the legality of a lightened stock-sized pulley in STX.

bump

thanks to the mods making this a sticky!:)

to the moderators,

thank you!!

ChrisW -

On page IN-2 of the Subaru Manual on CD, the piece the Samco replaces is listed as the 'intake duct'.

I'm not sure of the legality of posting the pic from the PDF, but the inlet hose is clearly listed as part of the Air Intake. If a cold air intake system is legal, then I see no reason why the Samco hose shouldn't be legal as well.

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on this.

Orion

Originally posted by orionf
ChrisW -

On page IN-2 of the Subaru Manual on CD, the piece the Samco replaces is listed as the 'intake duct'.

I'm not sure of the legality of posting the pic from the PDF, but the inlet hose is clearly listed as part of the Air Intake. If a cold air intake system is legal, then I see no reason why the Samco hose shouldn't be legal as well.

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on this.

Orion

Orion,

It sounds to me like it's legal. I will ask one of the SEB board members this sunday about the legality of the part for STX. I don't want to say it's legal and then find out it's not... that would suck

i have a completely stock wrx, do i need a 3pt harness to race or can i use the regular seatbelt? and im under 21 where do i go about finding a waiver to have my parents sign?

i have a completely stock wrx, do i need a 3pt harness to race or can i use the regular seatbelt? and im under 21 where do i go about finding a waiver to have my parents sign?

For auto-x, a regular seatbelt is fine.

The only reason that someone upgrades to a 4 or 5 or 6 pt harness is so they are just a little more tightly wrapped in their seat without moving around too much.

As far as age, if you're over 16 and have a valid license, sign up for SCCA's Speed Freakz. All the info and forms are here: http://www.speedfreakz.org/index.html

--kC

Originally posted by ChrisW


Orion,

It sounds to me like it's legal. I will ask one of the SEB board members this sunday about the legality of the part for STX. I don't want to say it's legal and then find out it's not... that would suck

Thanks! Here's a reminder bump.

I asked about the air inlet hose. STS rule 17.10.B states any air cleaner enclosure up to the carburator or throttle body can be used. Well the closest we can come to the throttle body in the WRX is the turbo.

There needs clarification by the SEB on this matter, but the general sense is that it would be legal as long as it does not modify any emissions equipment.

That's pretty much what I thought. The Samco piece has all the hose attachment points so there's no emissions changes at all.

Any chance that the Y pipe might fall into this as it's the hose that connects to the throttle body?

Please help me class my 02 WRX SW.

Here's what I have.

Springs & swaybars
Rear camber bolts
CAI
Catless up-pipe
Under-drive pulley
Short shifter
Samco inlet & IC hoses
Tires - 17's with street rubber or 16's with either street or Kumo
STi engine & tranny mounts

I'm unclear if it fits into STX or ESP.

Please PM me with what you think, keep the threads count down :)

Thanks in advance,

Shaun

sparks,

your in ESP because of the IC hose. Everything else looks good for STX.

Orionf, not a chance. the Y pipe is connected to, and part of, the intercooler.

The autox rule makers take a really dim view on turbo mods.

Originally posted by ChrisW

Orionf, not a chance. the Y pipe is connected to, and part of, the intercooler.

The autox rule makers take a really dim view on turbo mods.

just checking.;)

OK, I've been auto-xing for several years now (year 2000 Southwest Division STS champion :) ). I put a set of Cobb cams in and basically haven't raced since due to a blown center diff. This entire thread neglects the two classes that the traditionalists should be running in... prepared and mod. Looking at the rules posted in the orig. post (http://www.sff.net/people/dburkhead/prepcompare.htm it says that cams are allowed in prepared classes??? Since when? I thought that cams were an immediate EM/SM jump. Please advise. As for SM, I personally think its a joke... conebasher, 'nuff said. How can a cusco v-brace, or high flow cat, or a little more valve lift be expected to compete with 400+ turbocharged AWD hp? SCCA opened a can of worms and doesn't know how to handle it. So I'm debating if I want to compete this weekend, EM (chief competition is an RX-3) or SM (conebasher). hmmm how bad do I want to get wooped by? Well, it was fun while it lasted but I can't justify the thousands of $$ I'll need to get competative again (center diff, rear lsd, brakes, wheels/tires, weight reduction, bushings). ARGH :monkey: :monkey: :monkey:

IMHO, there are 2 ways to autocross.

1) Do it for fun. Take whatever parts you have on your car, class yourself accordingly and go out and just have fun

2) Do it to win. Plan your mods on what the rules are. PERIOD. Every other race organization has to do that as well.

-Tom

I understand that, but (and a big but), there is too much disparity between certain mods and the classes you get bumped into. IMHO, SCCA needs to reclass everything from the ground up. First, for all the newbies, stock class should not be allowed race tires right off the bat. Second, there needs to be a common sense approach to the classes, similar to IT/GT rules...

on street tires...
Street stock A,B,C...(shocks, non-adj; catback; panel filter)
Street touring A,B,C...(essentially same as current, basic boltons, adj suspension, upgraded stock size brakes)
Street prepared A,B,C...(unlimited suspension, brakes, minor internals (deck milled true, port matching, minor cam profile changes, clutch/fw), boost changes (FI), fuel trim changes, etc)
Street Mod A,B,C... (just about everything else but still on street tires!)

On R-compounds
Stock A,B,C... (see above)
Touring A,B,C... (see above)
Prepared A,B,C... (see above)
Mod A,B,C... (see above, less street tires)

This way all cars are re-classed accross the board to prevent protests based on "well in *blank* class we could do this". Factors in the new technologies such as traction control, ABS, stability control, etc. When the current system was set up there weren't that many cars that could/would race. Now it seems like every Fasttrack dorks with the rules so much that I, personally, just gave up trying to keep up.

This way you end up having 56 classes! That is WAY too many.

I'm not sure I'd change anything in regards to the auto-x classes. You either pony up the money to build a prepped car or you just go out there and have fun. Otherwise, don't put the modification on the car. I'm just out to have fun...for now.

I need a rule clarification concerning the STi lateral/trailing links. I have these now and I've run one event in STX with them and nobody complained, although they knew about it. Even though the description of them says they are pillow-ball mounts, I'm not sure they are in a traditional sense. To start, the links are identical to the stock ones except for the bushings, and the pink paint on them. They aren't lighter/stronger/etc. They are exactly the same dimensions. The question is, they don't seem to use spherical bushings. From my rules interpretation the bushings are the same as long as they work via compliance and not spherical movement. The bushings in the STi kit, while much beefier, still work via compliance, there are no moving parts or metal on metal interactions in them. You put a screwdriver through the bushing and pull it in one direction, it snaps back to center. They are sandwhiches of rubber/metal, like having one bushing inside another, to stiffen them up. That's usually considered a pillow block. I have pillowball upper mounts in which the movement is dictated only by the spherical joint, which stays in place if you say move it. The STi links aren't like that at all... Okay that was long but it's my story and I'm sticking to it for now. :) .

Now the endlinks that come with the kit _are_ spherical, but the rules say swaybars and their method of attachment are unlimited.

Phil

TR, I don't think its all that different from today's local/regional optional classes. In the past what, 4 yrs, they've added STS, STR, STX, SM, SM2, "tire" class. I've seen many variations of these in different regions as well. ST and SM are going to expand into classes, they have to with the new cars coming down the pipe (AWD Focus?, Evo?, STI?, Mondeo?, GTO?, etc). Personally, I think the Mini and Mini S will obliterate what ever classes they goes into, they're freakin roller skates. I'm tired of novices disappearing after their first or second season because they're not competative without a PAX index. Rather than option a tire class, why not offer it as a full up class? As for 56 classes, we've got (dont have my rule book handy) 49 now, not counting junior cart, novice Pax or tire class Pax. Really what's the difference other than working smarter?

In our Region, Cal Club, we have 2 STREET TIRE classes:

SK1 (SS, AS, FS)
SK2 (BS, CS, DS, ES, GS, HS)

And there are always 15+ cars in each - and are larger than our regular stock classes! Only class bigger, is STS. But as for STX, we have been getting more and more Sube folks in it, so it getting up there too. Just got to beat Vince's Prelude or Rob's //M3 someday.

Ah ha, you see it is getting a little too crazy. I say put cars together with similar handling/power capablities, let folks run on street tires competetively but get rid of the friggin Pax indexes. If you can't run against someone and win on your driving skills, why bother. IMHO Pax seems like a shady way to win.

I think PAX needs to be around to compare drivers.
I will get smoked by a Z06 on raw time, but I might be a better driver and PAX will reflect that.

Some cars have a better PAX so their drivers will be "faster", but its not a perfect world so you will always have that.

-Tom

True, but I don't think its right to exclude the street tire folks from head to head classed competion (ST excluded). Personally I enjoy running on street tires a little more than R-compounds because it forces me to hit my braking points and control my corners that much more.

Originally posted by BOY
True, but I don't think its right to exclude the street tire folks from head to head classed competion (ST excluded). Personally I enjoy running on street tires a little more than R-compounds because it forces me to hit my braking points and control my corners that much more.

That's why I think they should make everyone run on street tires. I never understood why "stock" classes get to run on race tires to begin with.

Phil

refer to previous post...

and AMEN. Look, I love SCCA, I love auto-x (have having a blown diff, but thats another story). What gripes my goat is not that I'm now in a class that I'm not competative in... that was my choice, its that the system needs to be overhauled so folks can back to racing. And this talk of kicking the scoobies out of STS :lol: cracks me up, its called the "subaru touring, street tire" class isn't it? ;)

One thing that can be done in STS since the introduction of the 2002 RS. Since it's in the same line in the SP rules as the 98, 99, 00 and 01 RS's (all it says is Impreza 2.5RS in the rules).You can update-backdate. You can remove the fog lamps and rear spoiler since it's not standard on the 02 RS. Remove the cruise control (not standard in the 98 RS) and replace your dual stage brake booster for a single that comes in the 98 RS.


First off, I just read the whole thread, and it's an hour later. :)

I want to talk about TopDog's comments (quoted above).

Is this true (for a 2001 Impreza RS competing in STS)? I can legally remove the spoiler and fog lights and run a hose or pipe down to the inlet for my intake if I so chose? I know in theory it's legal, but I thought you could only do this if they were the same bodystyle/chasis? The 02 RS is a different chasis, so is it allowed?

what's the verdict?

That's why I think they should make everyone run on street tires. I never understood why "stock" classes get to run on race tires to begin with. If you think that should be the rule, please define street tire!!

SCCA understands street tire as "DOT approved to be driven on public highways"

We cannot run on slicks! We are running on street tires. Sticky street tires, but they ARE street tires.

-Tom

Originally posted by trhoppe
If you think that should be the rule, please define street tire!!

SCCA understands street tire as "DOT approved to be driven on public highways"

We cannot run on slicks! We are running on street tires. Sticky street tires, but they ARE street tires.

-Tom


Fine, I'll restate my opinion as a minimum treadwear rating, but I have a feeling you understood what I meant. I know people that would like to run in their stock classes instead of an indexed class that lumps all the cars together, but they can't afford wheels/tires to do so. It's something that turns them away from autox. If R-compound tires went away in autox it wouldn't be a horrible thing. The SCCA doesn't call R-compound tires "Street Tires", they call them R-compound or "DOT Legal" competition tires. That's why most regions have "street tire" classes that exclude the use of r-compound tires. That may be to dissuade people from actually using them on the street, I don't know.

So how do you set a "treadwear" rating. The 140 rating that SCCA uses right now is BS. Look at Falken Azenis! They are lower then 140, but are labeled as 200. Since the "treadwear" is arbitrary, tire companies can call them whatever they want.
Hoosier and Kumho, if outlawed, would magically make 160 treadwear tires, that were as sticky as their race tires.

How hard is it to afford a second set of wheels and race tires? A set of good street tires costs as much as a set of race tires. You won't be killing your street tires if you are racing on the race tires which will make your streets last longer. It will probably even itself out costwise in the end (unless you are trying to win nationally, that is a WHOLE different ballgame)

SCCA understands street tire as "DOT approved to be driven on public highways"

We cannot run on slicks! We are running on street tires. Sticky street tires, but they ARE street tires.

Sure they are DOT street tires . . . if you consider a holographic tread to be REAL tread, and last for more than a 5 minutes drive on a highway.

Perhaps, what is needed is not just a (cheat) treadwear rating limit . . . . how about like back in the old days where there used to be a mileage guarantee? That way, if the mfgr says it lasts 30K miles, and they rate the tire at 200TW - then it had better BE a 200TW.

for stock classes, can you have a cat-back exhaust. Because I've been told that you cannot.

Wondering what class I am supposed to run in - here are my mods:

Cobb intake
Stromung muffler
ProECM
f/r Whiteline endlinks
20mm rear sway bar
Cobb shifter, Cusco shifter bushings
STi engine/ trans mounts
rear spoiler from a coupe
stainless steel brake lines
WRX front rotors, Legacy rear rotors

next month or two -- KYB AGX & MRT springs (with STi topmounts?)

I'm just planning on having fun and learning the next year or so, but then I'd like to start winning 1st place trophies ;) , so I'd like to stay legal for a class that my car can be competetive in. I'd be fine with putting the stock rotors back on for autox and either selling the bigger rotors, or just putting them on when I go to the mountains or whatever.

Please advise.

Thanks,

Kevin Allen

Originally posted by luna sea
for stock classes, can you have a cat-back exhaust.
Yes.

Kevin, your car is close to STS, but you have a couple of problems. The larger brake rotors and the engine/tranny mounts would bump you out of there. As far as I can see, you could actually run STX. That's not a bad class as long as you're in it for the fun. While the index is higher, it's probably less competitive in many areas because it's a fairly new class.

I ran an autocross this past sunday, and there was only one STX (a WRX wagon), which got bumped into E stock. I was running in DSPN, and got a 1st place trophy :cool: . But I really need to work on my driving and my car to be competitive in anything else. I don't want to just go out to have fun and get my ass kicked by everybody else forever, but it's gonna be like that for a while. :rolleyes:

I'm thinking I'd like to run DSP, since I'm out of STS - I could take the brake rotors back to stock for autoX, but I WILL NOT put the damn stock engine and trans. mounts back on the car. Period. Plus, my time for the last autoX would've put me within 0.5 sec of 2nd place (but about 2.5 sec away from 1st).

It looks like I'm legal for DSP; am I missing anything?

Thanks.

Actually, I DID miss something, and just went back and found out why I might not want to be in DSP - R compounds. Or will I be okay with Azenis Sports? They grip a lot better than anything else I've ever driven on, but I've never driven on Kumho V700s, either...

I plan to get some 17 X 7.5 wheels eventually, but right now I'm using stock wheels with stock size Azenis. Or would I be better off getting another set of 16X7 wheels, and using 215/45/16s for autoX?

Kevin

:confused:

The way I understand the rules, larger brake rotors and engine/transmission mounts are not legal in SP. I remember hearing that te brake rules in SP might change, but I'm not sure if/when this is going to happen. So if you want to keep the engine mounts, your choices are STX or SM.

While Azenis have better grip than most street tires, R compounds should still be significantly faster. A guy was posting comparisons of running Azenis and R compounds on the same car and same course a while ago, you can probably find the thread if you do a search. I seem to remember that he got about a 1 second difference on a 60 second course.

You're forgetting EP and EM. Check the results of your local club and you might be suprised to find that EM times aren't always that fast (in fact, if the "big boys" don't come out to play the times are often right at, and sometimes slower than, STS). I was too tired to make tech but I went to the race anyway to watch... I'm kicking myself for not running, the turnout was low and I would've had a good chance in both classes even on Ecsta's.

Okay I emailed Howard Duncan about the pink sti trailing/lateral links and the vagueness of the rule that I thought might make them legal. Well it turns out they had a lengthy discussion about the rule and they are definitely not legal. The rule was aimed at solid/live axle vehicles and not vehicles with idependent/multi-link rear suspensions. The rule reads:

17.8.D which reads:

Addition or replacement of suspension stabilizers (linkage connecting axle or De Dion to the chassis which controls lateral suspension location) is permitted. Traction bars or torque arms may be added or replaced. A Panhard rod may be added or replaced. Methods of attachment and attachment points are unrestricted.


After the SEB discussion they determined that linkage in an independent rear suspension would be classified as control arms, which can't be legally replaced in STX or SP. I believe there are replacement STi GrpN bushings for everything but it would require a bushing press to get them in/out. So basically I have a very well prepped STX car (pretty much everything minus headers), so my choice is either put the stock lateral/trailing links back on or spend another $4-5k on making a semi-competitive SM car... not all that difficult of a choice...

Phil

Originally posted by dwx
Okay I emailed Howard Duncan about the pink sti trailing/lateral links and the vagueness of the rule that I thought might make them legal. Well it turns out they had a lengthy discussion about the rule and they are definitely not legal. (snip) so my choice is either put the stock lateral/trailing links back on or spend another $4-5k on making a semi-competitive SM car... not all that difficult of a choice...

Phil

Bummer, Phil. If it's any consolation, if you have to sell the pinkies, you'll be able to do so in a heartbeat.

Kevin

Well Phil,

FWIW, I got the same response when asking about the pink stuff for SP as well.

The BOV and ALK that I just ordered will put me in SM...

Fine with me!

Come and get some you punks!!

Originally posted by MrAceman
The BOV and ALK that I just ordered will put me in SM...

Fine with me!

Come and get some you punks!!

No, you're beyond that. ALK's are not legal for SM. Say hello to a prepared class!:eek:

...they will put you into Street Modified or beyond:


Any kind of boost control (MBC, EBC).
*Blow-off valve.
Engine management systems that modify boost, e. g. Unichip with boost control unit, as sold by TurboXS and Cobb.
Different/updated turbo.
Different/updated transmission.
Replaced body parts, e. g. carbon fiber hood, or STi bumper beam.
Larger hood scoop.
*Anti-Lift Kit.

Maybe it's my lack of terminology... I thought SM = Street Modified

...they will put you into Street Modified or beyond:


Any kind of boost control (MBC, EBC).
*Blow-off valve.
Engine management systems that modify boost, e. g. Unichip with boost control unit, as sold by TurboXS and Cobb.
Different/updated turbo.
Different/updated transmission.
Replaced body parts, e. g. carbon fiber hood, or STi bumper beam.
Larger hood scoop.
*Anti-Lift Kit.

Maybe it's my lack of terminology (since I've never actually BEEN to an auto-x yet:()... I thought SM = Street Modified:

Originally posted by MrAceman


Maybe it's my lack of terminology (since I've never actually BEEN to an auto-x yet:()... I thought SM = Street Modified:

Yes, SM = Street Modified. Read through the whole thread and you'll find the info on why the ALK is NOT legal for SM, SP, or ST classes. The section you quoted was a preliminary listing that didn't get corrected.;)

Note: a good set of coilovers would eliminate the need for an ALK.

So, I've got the STi suspension (with all of the STi/SPT bushings installed), STi short shifter, rims and tires. What category would I be in? And if I replaced my bushings to OEM, what category would I fall back to?

Bushing replacement is legal in STX. If you have the complete setup then the part that puts you into SM are the AL front control arms. If you put the stock control arms on you'd be in STX.

Originally posted by dwx
Bushing replacement is legal in STX. If you have the complete setup then the part that puts you into SM are the AL front control arms. If you put the stock control arms on you'd be in STX.

Correct to a point. The Metal bushings in the STi/SPT kit are NOT legal for STX.

Just checked rule book, they are legal for SM.

Originally posted by dwx
Bushing replacement is legal in STX. If you have the complete setup then the part that puts you into SM are the AL front control arms. If you put the stock control arms on you'd be in STX.

I've got the wagon set up, so no control arms. I guess I would be STX if I ever got off my ass and went to a meet. Thanks for the quick response.

Originally posted by orionf


Correct to a point. The Metal bushings in the STi/SPT kit are NOT legal for STX. I'm not even sure of SM legality for them.

When did the SPT kit get metal bushings? I thought they were just from the GrpN bushing kit, which are still compliant bushings? You can use any bushings you want in SM, suspension is basically free as long as you use stock mounting points.

Phil

Originally posted by dwx


When did the SPT kit get metal bushings? I thought they were just from the GrpN bushing kit, which are still compliant bushings? You can use any bushings you want in SM, suspension is basically free as long as you use stock mounting points.

Phil

I stand corrected. Metal bushings are legal for SM. They are not legal in STS/STX. My apologies.

The bushing kit in the Dealer available STi kit has metal bushings. It has since day one.

What class would I be in if I installed coilovers in my otherwise stock WRX?

Coilovers would put you in ESP (if you want to run race tires) or STX if you run street tires. Myself, I like the idea of being able to drive to an event on the same tires I compete with, thus STX was an easy choice for me. It also allows many "common" mods- ie intake, exhaust (must retain one cat or replace w/ a high flow), any wheels up to 8' in width, sway bars, upgraded brakes and many more (including coilovers that you mentioned). Truely a "street" class that is well suited to the WRX.

Big Sky

Originally posted by z3coupe
Has anyone ever gotten an actual verdict from Howard, or seen this in print in Fast Track???

port employees = SoA
dealer mechanics = dealer

So where does port installed have anything to do with the dealer? Not one dealer's folks have touched the car. The cars are shipped here pretty much bare bones, and what is missing from the factory invoice is installed here. Part of this is to conform to the National Content laws requiring X amount of parts being from the country it is being shipped to and sold in (USA in this situation).

Has there been a resolution to this one yet?

Originally posted by z3coupe
Has anyone ever gotten an actual verdict from Howard, or seen this in print in Fast Track???

port employees = SoA
dealer mechanics = dealer

So where does port installed have anything to do with the dealer? Not one dealer's folks have touched the car. The cars are shipped here pretty much bare bones, and what is missing from the factory invoice is installed here. Part of this is to conform to the National Content laws requiring X amount of parts being from the country it is being shipped to and sold in (USA in this situation).

Has there been a resolution to this one yet?

Has there been a resolution to this one yet?
What specific part is in question here?

Originally posted by orionf


I stand corrected. Metal bushings are legal for SM. They are not legal in STS/STX. My apologies.

The bushing kit in the Dealer available STi kit has metal bushings. It has since day one.

Ok I found a FAQ on the suspension kit which reads:


What materials are they made of? All the bushing materials remain the same although the material properties are modified with the exception of the rear cross member rubber bushing which is changed to steel.

They are on the left. The previous circle was for the ALK debate.

Originally posted by z3coupe
Has anyone ever gotten an actual verdict from Howard, or seen this in print in Fast Track???

port employees = SoA
dealer mechanics = dealer

So where does port installed have anything to do with the dealer? Not one dealer's folks have touched the car. The cars are shipped here pretty much bare bones, and what is missing from the factory invoice is installed here. Part of this is to conform to the National Content laws requiring X amount of parts being from the country it is being shipped to and sold in (USA in this situation).

Originally posted by grumbly



Has there been a resolution to this one yet?

The bottom line is, port installed options are considered dealer installed options. If it can't be installed on the factory assembly line, it can't be considered a factory installed part despite the extra part installed at the port. Typically the parts installed at the port are diff protectors, the rear wing, stereo equipment, and other dealer options.

Originally posted by ChrisW
The bottom line is, port installed options are considered dealer installed options. If it can't be installed on the factory assembly line, it can't be considered a factory installed part despite the extra part installed at the port. Typically the parts installed at the port are diff protectors, the rear wing, stereo equipment, and other dealer options.

Then what is the legality of the STI short throw shift kit?

Originally posted by grumbly


Then what is the legality of the STI short throw shift kit?

The ST rules explicitly cover short shifters, so this is ok. Things like wings and front lips are ok as well, since ST rules specifically allow new wings and bumper covers.

I thought that the problem items (port-installed) are the STi clutch, 17" wheels (for Stock class), etc. Things that are not specifically allowed by rules, but which are often referred to as factory options.

Originally posted by jeddy


The ST rules explicitly cover short shifters, so this is ok. Things like wings and front lips are ok as well, since ST rules specifically allow new wings and bumper covers.


Ok but what about stock? There seems to be conflicting information runnig around about exactly where the shifter is installed.

Originally posted by grumbly


Ok but what about stock? There seems to be conflicting information runnig around about exactly where the shifter is installed.

Not stock class legal. It's not installed at the factory.

You know.. i knew i had seen this before.. matter of fact i even asked this exact same question before.

Look at these threads here (http://forums.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=149521) and here (http://forums.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=142527).

We now have conflicting information folks. Seems everyone in this thread believes that the Port is part of the dealer. People in the other thread (the ones listed above) site Howard Duncan as saying its legal. Do we have specific information one way or the other on which it is?

Port installed options are SCCA legal. My short shifter was port installed and is legal. Sti Clutches and 17" wheels are not installed at the port, but by the dealer. Therefore those are dealer installed options and not legal for stock. The big disconnect seems to be not understanding what options are truly port installed.

Port installed options are considered dealer installed options. IMHO, Howard Duncan is partially correct. The short throw shifter as installed on the limited edition yellow WRXs is installed at the factory not at the port. So if you have a yellow WRX and you have the short throw shifter (some don't aparently:rolleyes:, the one I drove did, and the shifter was on the factory invoice) then it should be legal.

Originally posted by orionf
Read through the whole thread and you'll find the info on why the ALK is NOT legal for SM, SP, or ST classes. The section you quoted was a preliminary listing that didn't get corrected.;)
The intention of the "SM and beyond" section is that it lists modifications that are not allowed in Stock, ST or SP. Some of them will put you into SM, others even beyond that (Prepared). It was never meant to suggest that all those items were allowed in SM. Maybe I should try to find a better title and explanation (suggestions welcome!), it seems like it's confusing people in its current form.

Originally posted by ChrisW
So if you have a yellow WRX and you have the short throw shifter (some don't aparently:rolleyes:, the one I drove did, and the shifter was on the factory invoice) then it should be legal.

So by the update backdate rule you can install the sti short throw shifter kit in to a car that didnt have it? Or do you need to pant the car yellow as well? :lol:

Next time you are at a SCCA event ask them and they will tell you the short throw shifter is legal if it is shown on your invoice. There are many D stock WRX's out there running the short throw and I have heard of none of them having any problems. Port installed is not dealer installed. The 17" rims are a perfect example.

There are many D stock WRX's out there running the short throw and I have heard of none of them having any problems Maybe, but none of them are winning. Unless you are winning on a national level you arent going to be protested for something like a short shifter. The only ruling for it is that it is NOT legal. Run it if you want, but don't do it at nationals if you are planning on winning. IMHO that is.

So by the update backdate rule you can install the sti short throw shifter kit Yes you can, but you can only update/backdate in ESP so it doesnt matter :lol:

Originally posted by trhoppe
The only ruling for it is that it is NOT legal.
Where was this ruling made? Is it in the fasttrack? So far all i have seen is speculation on both sides (port is owned by subaru = factory, port is not the factory = dealer).
Yes you can, but you can only update/backdate in ESP so it doesnt matter
Ok I guess I referenced the wrong rule. Im not sure of the exact terminology because I don’t have a rule book on me but from http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/ the first bullet under solo:

Anything available on the exact model and year of your car as standard or optional equipment, as installed on the factory assembly line (nothing available only dealer-installed is allowed), plus Standard OEM identical replacement parts.

So this brings us back to the first point. Is the port considered factory or not? Im not trying to be a dick about it but i would like to resolve this nagging little point once and for all.

I believe the rear spoiler would have the same problem in Stock if it weren't for the fact that it is a port installed piece and therefore factory.

The short throw shifter as installed on the limited edition yellow WRXs is installed at the factory not at the port. So if you have a yellow WRX and you have the short throw shifter (some don't aparently, the one I drove did, and the shifter was on the factory invoice) then it should be legal.

Well, MY shifter was on the factory invoice in type, not added as hand written or on the dealer's addon sticker. Oh, and it is BLUE, not Yellow.

I think the first message that lists "any brake rotors and calipers" as being legal is actually wrong. STS (and thus STX) allows...

1) Cross drilled or slotted brake rotors, same size and type as standard (so you can't use just any rotors, they have to be the same size as stock).

2) Alternate DOT approved flexible brake lines

3) Air ducting that goes forward only and does not modify the body.

There is no specific mention made with regards to changing the calipers therefor changing the calipers in STX is not allowed (unless I missed a blurb in a FasTrack).

Does anyone have any information to suggest otherwise?

Thanks, Joe

Originally posted by veloLexus
I think the first message that lists "any brake rotors and calipers" as being legal is actually wrong. STS (and thus STX) allows...
STX allows all modifications from STS, plus a list of additional modifications. One of them is: "Brake rotors and calipers are unrestricted, but must attach to the original attachment points."

Originally posted by TheWRX

STX allows all modifications from STS, plus a list of additional modifications. One of them is: "Brake rotors and calipers are unrestricted, but must attach to the original attachment points."

(in the voice of that Sesame Street character) NOPE nope nope nope nope nope nope nope :lol:

I've got ya on this one. Calipers are NOT allowed in STX, I don't even think they're allowed in Street Prepared either.

Joe

Reply from Howard follows__________________
Joe,

Your interpretation is correct. This sounds like wishful thinking on
someone's part.

Howard Duncan
SCCA Director of Program Development
303-779-6622, FAX 303-694-3654
1-800-770-2055


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Ciarcia [mailto:veloimpreza@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 3:44 PM
> To: hduncan@scca.org
> Subject: Clarification on brake calipers in STX
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I've been informed that STX allows the replacement of
> brake calipers providing they mount to the factory
> attachment points. I quickly (and not very thoroughly)
> scanned FasTrack to see if there were any ammendments
> to the rules allowing brake calipers in STX but I
> didn't come across anything. My interpretation of the
> rules from the rule book is that one may not change
> the calipers (just the rotors providing that the
> rotors are the same size or smaller than stock). Can
> you set me straight?
>
> Thanks, Joe
> San Francisco Region SCCA
> #360 D-Stock
> Subaru WRX

Maybe Howard was mistaken???

If you look at http://www.scca.org/news/fastrack/02-02.pdf
The February Fastrack, Item #8 under STX and I quote
"Brake rotors and calipers are unrestricted, but must attach to the original attachment points"

Make sure you are 100% correct before doing the "nopenopenope" thing :rolleyes:

-Tom

"Maybe Howard was mistaken???"

(Sesame Street character) Yep, yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yepyepyepyepyepyepyepyep!!!!!

Ya know... when you posted that link I started reading it and I remembered reading that FasTrack... fortunately I did a sloppy job of reading it. :D

Well that's good news because I think better brakes would be very useful in shaving some time off of a 60 second technical course. :alien: :alien: :alien:

Joe

Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't get in here yesterday or I would have pointed to the fastrack.

I run the STi 4-pots on my car. :) I'd hate to have my season stripped away or Todd Meade's (IT-R) season stripped away. :D

--kC

Originally posted by veloLexus
I've got ya on this one. Calipers are NOT allowed in STX, I don't even think they're allowed in Street Prepared either.
Others already posted the link to the Fastrack issue. The rules page at moutons.org (http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/) (link is also in the original post) is normally a good place to find detailed rules. The STX rules are at the bottom of the Street Touring page (http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Rules/street_touring.html). It doesn't look like they were updated with the latest changes (exhaust) though.

You're right about SP, updated calipers are not allowed there. SP does not inherit the STX rules, unfortunately.

It really bites that SP doesn't allow calipers. I would think that an SP class is the next logical step after street touring. I imagine that once I get hooked on better brakes I won't want to give them up.

Joe

Prepared class brake question see Section 15.6B?

The SP brake issue is not that bad. Next year we can use any rotor (cross drilled or slotted) as long as it's the same size.

so far I have been pretty satisfied with nothing more than upgraded brake pads.

Ok here is another debate that we've had locally that concerns brakes. If you are using a front caliper with custom brackets is it legal or not?

Originally posted by dwx
Ok here is another debate that we've had locally that concerns brakes. If you are using a front caliper with custom brackets is it legal or not?

no, you have to use the stock mounting points for ESP and stx. In SM it should be OK.

Originally posted by ChrisW


no, you have to use the stock mounting points for ESP and stx. In SM it should be OK.

Well the question was to whether a custom bracket is part of the caliper or part of the car. What if you had some calipers with brackets welded to them, making them part of the caliper? How is that different than ones that are bolted? I emailed Howard about it, let's see if he just says brakes aren't legal for STX. :)

as far as I know, you have to use the stock mounting points for the calipers.

The conservative view on this is that brakets to move the caliper are illegal. If the brackets were/are part of the caliper, then I would say go for it.

Was there any resolution as to whether or not the UD pullies are legal in STX?

Thanks, Joe

And, while I have everyone's attention what classes are brake master cylinder brackets allowed in? I'm guessing no go for STX, ESP is probably okay as changing the master cylinder is allowed and a bracket could be considered as part of the hardware for mounting a new bracket.

Thanks, Joe

And now to really go for the gold... I understand camber plates are legal in STX how about cambe/castor plates?

Okay, that's all for today. I promise :lol:

Originally posted by veloLexus
Was there any resolution as to whether or not the UD pullies are legal in STX?

Thanks, Joe

As far as I am aware of, they are illegal for Street touring (STX, STS), legal for Street prepared (DSP, ESP).

Brake bracket, unknown about STX, in ESP it is legal.

Camber caster plates are legal for STX I believe.


your welcome
your welcome
your welcome

Originally posted by veloLexus
Was there any resolution as to whether or not the UD pullies are legal in STX?

Thanks, Joe

Unfortunately half way through the season it was determined they were not legal. I visited w/ Howard (awhile back) and he thought for next year the SEB would loosen up on this issue and have it legal for STS and STX- as this is a very common mod for almost all vehicles. As usual (ie the cat issue) the more we let them know (phone calls, letters, emails) the more likely it will succeed.

Big Sky

Well Big Sky (Mike), there is even more going on now too! Seems that STAC suddenly are saying it was their "INTENT" to make STX an AWD/Turbo class, thus now want to move the RS into STX. Hmmm, this is the first I had ever heard that said! I only remember that STX was made so that the new WRX could have a street touring class to play in! Guess they would have to change STS to STC(ivic) from now on! Cause that is pretty much what will be in there.

Hi Rocky. I've also heard that we'll be joined by our RS brethern- they're not real happy either- at least the ones I've talked to. Are they going to kick out the TT also?

I was reading the stock class rules on silicone hoses and I have a
question. Does replacing a stock intercooler hose setup on a 2002 Subaru WRX with Samco silicone hoses take the car out of D-Stock? From what I understand, it is a legal modification. PLMK.

Does replacing a stock intercooler hose setup on a 2002 Subaru WRX with Samco silicone hoses take the car out of D-Stock? Yes. The Samco IC hose provides a performance advantage. This rule is for vacuum hoses and radiator hoses and such that will NOT provide any performance advantage. If the silicone hoses were EXACTLY the same as stock, you could replace them.

-Tom