Let me start off by saying WOW and WOW

Getting tip in Dialed in is like driving a brand new car out of boost...

Absolutrely NO hesitation - NO LTFT's anymore...

Anyway went out and logged:
Engine Speed
Throttle open angle
LC1
Boost Error
Tip In (%)

Laid it out vs. time in Airboys spreadsheet and went to town. Started off at a idle/free rev and since I'm a nut and my Boost Targets pretty much are dead on (rarely EVER have any boost error, other than a 2k WOT pull)
Got my basis going with the free rev.

Out to my secret area (closed course - The only life I was endangering is mine and random wild animals that may or may not get in my way)

Started a 2k 2nd gear steady throttle to WOT stab (very short stabs as I only needed a log till the AFR's settled down, almost all of them were this way)

Repeated this in 2nd at 3k, 4k, 5k, 6k. When I got my Engine Speed additive dialed in - I went to 5th gear and did the same (only 1k 2k 3k 4k) for load puproses (big change)

This caused a bit of boost error to come into play - dialing in boost error additive and tweaking engine speed additive and straight tip in additive created a wonder driving experience for the drive home.

I can now row gears like a bone stock honda - no more 15-1 or 16-1 or even once in a while 17-1 afr spike on tip in. No more crazy Short Term Fuel corrections (up to about 10% was the max) No more hardcore rich dips on tip in, in some spots..

My favorite part is I can take off from a stop and go 1-2-3-4 shifting at about 2k rpms as quickly as I want and there is no hesitations or surging that used to be there.. Don't get me wrong, it was pretty easy to drive before, but now its amazing. I spent about an hour playing with it, reflashed about 4 times during the whole "tune session.

I do have my maf dialed in very close - that also helped quite a bit as well..

If you haven't spent time on your DD on this and want a smooth drivable out of boost drive - consider this...

-jerod

If only the 04 ROMs had the engine speed compensation for Tip in. All we have is boost error but that can not accomodate for it all.:mad:

nope boost error was used the least...

Great post JSarv. I did adjust tip-in very crudely after I installed my DW750s, but I need to get them spot on and this looks to be a very easy way of doing so :)

I will definately be doing this once I have OL MAF scaled.

So Jsarv I am interested what did you do to tweak those tables.... In other words what were you shooting for.These tables come basically zeroed out stock so I am wondering what we are trying to dial them in to do add tip in, take it out? Add tip in until we don;t have a lean spike on tip in?

Yea correct my tip in so there are no lean or rich spikes...

Basically going WOT it flatlines in higher gears instead of dropping REAL rich and then coming back lean...

In lower gears going rich real fast because boost is coming on real fast...

do you still get the rich dips when you go from zero throttle(deep vaccum, AFTRS in the low 20's) and then come back on throttle, you know, as if you lifted on the freeway to slow down?

Yea... Not as bad though... The quicker the lift (higher throttle to 0) i actually have almost no rich dip..

but light throttle lifts it goes rich, as tip in is tip out and if I add anymore tip in to that area my tip out is fine, but my tip in is stupid rich..

Give a little here take a little there kind of deal.

I'm still working on it, I had it a little rich in a spot yesterday and got a huge afterfire and shotgun pop everytime I shifted.

^^Wife was behind me and said there was a flame that rolled around about everytime..

Cool but not so much..

-Jerod

JSarv,

Can you provide more detail to how you got your Engine Speed additive dialed in? I assume that would be "Tip in Enrichment Compensation (RPM)" on the 08? How close would it be using AF Sensor #1 and not a wideband?

What injectors and can you post up the tables for us to see? Im curious to know your final values in the tip-in enrichment table.

Not close truthfully - Your AF sensor goes limp after 0 psi of boost.

Bosch ID1000's

yea I'm not on my laptop but I can later :)

Interested in seeing the tables

WTF why did Subaru decide to get rid of the Tip in compensation based on RPM for the 04s then put it back in for later models? It makes tip in harder to tune without it.

probably because the RPM comp is never used as part of the factory tune for the ECUs that have it (i.e. never any compensation)

Ive only ever seen them zero'd out as well. Unfortunate, as it would really help with tip in control with larger injectors.

Still waiting to see jsarvs tables

Sorry - this is just a current map - I changed alot of things when I installed my Perrin Big Maf - Haven't had time to mess with it lately..


http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/8711/tipin.th.jpg (http://img41.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tipin.jpg)

Looking at that pic, your RPM comp tables are zero and your tip in doesnt take effect until a 14% tip in change occurs.

Sorry - this is just a current map - I changed alot of things when I installed my Perrin Big Maf - Haven't had time to mess with it lately..


http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/8711/tipin.th.jpg (http://img41.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tipin.jpg)

Looking at that pic, your RPM comp tables are zero and your tip in doesnt take effect until a 14% tip in change occurs.


You got all of that from this?:confused:

haha - that picture was definately not up when I posted...

thats what its currently set at as I put the Perrin Big maf on and was going WAY rich on tip in - I dailed a bunch of things back - I do get tip in enrichment @ around 8% throttle after a couple of the compensations...

but light throttle lifts it goes rich, as tip in is tip out [...]

I thought Tea Cups / Merchgod said that's not the case?

Can we get a sanity check please?

You got all of that from this?:confused:

yeah...

You got all of that from this?:confused:

Yea. :D

I thought Tea Cups / Merchgod said that's not the case?

Can we get a sanity check please?
The tip-in enrichment, as defined in RomRaider/Ecuflash, only relates to a positive changes in throttle. However, there is separate logic having nothing to do with this tip-in enrichment (other than the similar behavior of additional on-time of the injectors), which is related to lift-throttle before injector shut-off. You will not be able to impact this, however, in any way, tuning the current set of tables, but it is something I could add in the future after further analysis.

good post, very inresting

Out of curiosity, what does LTFT mean?

Out of curiosity, what does LTFT mean?

Long Term Fuel Trim

Ok so I've been working on it again with crappy results..

I go lean on 15-20% throttle changes - its almost like my ecu isn't applying the tip in for my actual throttle change.

2nd what determines fueling JUST after tip in? I stay in closed loop - and I go way way rich just after tip in...

So lean on tip in and rich after... GRR..

I can make the lean spike go away but then I'm retarded rich right after tip in (like 10's at part throttle)

I don't understand it completely..

-Jerod

This is why you need to log the front AFR sensor as well as STFT. The wideband only sees the aftermath of what the fuel correction has done, so if you see a lean spike on the WB its probably because you went too rich on initial tip in and it pulled fuel to compensate and vise versa.

Tip-in is a pain in the ass that I have never been able to nail down, partly because it takes forever and I havnt been able to put that much effort into it.

I can make the lean spike go away but then I'm retarded rich right after tip in (like 10's at part throttle)

I don't understand it completely..


It's my understanding that tip-in is VERY short-lived, too transient to show up in data logs. The dip after tip-in must be something else entirely.

There's a fairly widely held belief that it just takes a while for the air rushing past the MAF to show up at the cylinders, due to pressure rise in the intercooler and charge pipes.

I have a suspicion that it may also involve fuel sticking to the backs of the intake valves then getting blown off at higher airflow. I've been meaning to do some logging to see if I can come up with an evidence for or against that theory. http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/xtau.htm