Sorry I haven't posted in a while but here goes....

First off thanx for all the great words and e mails about my car thank you all!! My car was shot last week for a feature in Super Street!!! They loved the car and took about 30 rolls of film. Hopefully, the car will be in Super Street in a few months!!

I added a few mods this last few weeks to try to get my wagon in the 11's.

First off I changed my vf23 for a vf30. I believe the extra power at the top will help a bit at the track. For street use I would stick with the 23 though guys it has much more "useable" power!!

We also added an inlet pipe that replaced the TINY stock one. This mod should definitely help out. For those of you that have done this mod you know how much of a joke that stock inlet pipe is. We installed the inlet pipe without taking off the manifold. It does make the install much easier if you remove the turbo prior to the inlet pipe install.

I also added an Afc by Apex. This mod was amazing in getting more low end power and leaning out the extremely rich condition all wrx's have. Remember all my fuel components as well as ecu are STOCK. I removed the little sun visor above the rear view mirror and mounted it there.....it looks excellent. Even with all my mods at high boost the mixture is still really rich. The afc helped out tremendously in getting a bit less of a rich mixture.

Next, I put my wagon on a bit of a diet losing about 150 lbs total.
I swapped the 18's for some lighter 17's and went with a real sticky meaty tire.

Well that's it for now.....I'm getting the car ready for Battle of the Imports this weekend in Virginia. We are taking our Civic race car and figured we'll take the Wagon and have some fun!!

Any I-club guys out there come say hello.

I'll keep you all updated and if anyone has ANY questions keep them coming...

e mail to me or through www.driversimage.com

Gregg

12.20 @ 114.....till this weekend ( I hope!)

tell me that you have yet to get injectors??? if you put a VF30 w/.o injectors i SURE AS HELL hope you are running a larger guel jet with the nitrous kit cause you are going to nEED it.

jeremy

Still running stock injectors.....even with the Nos it's still rich.

Gregg

Originally posted by wickedwrxwagon
Still running stock injectors.....even with the Nos it's still rich.

Gregg haha...sorry greg, i know better....good luck though

Are you monitoring fuel pressure? That kinda power seems to be stretching the limits of the 130lph(?) stock fuel pump.

very curious...

Do you have any pics of your car?

I would have thought with the VF30 you would be leaning the car out a bit at high boost. On, top of that you are pushing N20 through the system. Man, be carefull!:( I hate to hear about blown up WRX's.

Torch

Good luck Gregg!! You are a proven professional and have been building race cars for years.. Thanks so much for all your help with my setup!!! I will be posting my times soon, you will be very Surprised!!!! Much better then we talked about on the phone ;) :devil:




Rob

Originally posted by RobPA
Good luck Gregg!! You are a proven professional and have been building race cars for years.. Thanks so much for all your help with my setup!!! I will be posting my times soon, you will be very Surprised!!!! Much better then we talked about on the phone ;) :devil:




Rob proven professional?? how so?? by showing that with bolt ons and improper tuning and shot of nitrous corrects for all the flaws in tuning??

Originally posted by HndaTch627
proven professional?? how so?? by showing that with bolt ons and improper tuning and shot of nitrous corrects for all the flaws in tuning??
lol... I'm keeping out of this! When are you coming to visit me biatch! ;)

Eric

Originally posted by Imprezinator

lol... I'm keeping out of this! When are you coming to visit me biatch! ;)

Eric no comment my brotha ;) haha looks like end of august/early sept.

oh yeah, plenty of people have blown their cars up by just slapping them together...i myself and taking my sweet ass time, doing it right and doing it ONCE...i will have an indestructible powertrain when i am done.

jeremy

Originally posted by HndaTch627
no comment my brotha ;) haha looks like end of august/early sept.

oh yeah, plenty of people have blown their cars up by just slapping them together...i myself and taking my sweet ass time, doing it right and doing it ONCE...i will have an indestructible powertrain when i am done.

jeremy

I say do it quick, blow it up, then do it 3 more times! lol. J/K you are obviously a lot smarter than me! :)

Eric

Robpa......awesome dude I'm glad all my help paid off. I just hope you are not running quicker than me!!!

Anyways, my wagon is ready for The Battle so we'll see what happens. The factory pump fees the stock injectors just fine and there is no need for more fuel on my car at this point.

Torch...pics of the car at www.driversimage.com

Thanx for the kind words Rob..

Hndatch627.....Improper tuning hmmmmmmmm...The reason he said "proven professional" is because I spent hours on the phone helping him with all sorts of tuning issues. Obviously my help has made him happy. Sorry he is running stock injectors also.

12.20 @ 114 with IMPROPER tuning......

You say I need injectors well let's see about improper tuning....

Apex Egt............cool egt's
Apex A/F............shows rich air/fuel
Spark Plugs.......Extremely rich condition
$5,000 air fuel meter hooked up.......shows cars rich

Just curious why do I need injectors???? Please, I'd like to know which of these conditions points to a lean condition?

Hmmmmmmm let me run out and buy those 800cc injectors right now!!!!

I guess if I knew what I was doing my car would be fast.

Gregg

12.20 @ 114

Originally posted by wickedwrxwagon
Robpa......awesome dude I'm glad all my help paid off. I just hope you are not running quicker than me!!!

Anyways, my wagon is ready for The Battle so we'll see what happens. The factory pump fees the stock injectors just fine and there is no need for more fuel on my car at this point.

Torch...pics of the car at www.driversimage.com

Thanx for the kind words Rob..

Hndatch627.....Improper tuning hmmmmmmmm...The reason he said "proven professional" is because I spent hours on the phone helping him with all sorts of tuning issues. Obviously my help has made him happy. Sorry he is running stock injectors also.

12.20 @ 114 with IMPROPER tuning......

You say I need injectors well let's see about improper tuning....

Apex Egt............cool egt's
Apex A/F............shows rich air/fuel
Spark Plugs.......Extremely rich condition
$5,000 air fuel meter hooked up.......shows cars rich

Just curious why do I need injectors???? Please, I'd like to know which of these conditions points to a lean condition?

Hmmmmmmm let me run out and buy those 800cc injectors right now!!!!

I guess if I knew what I was doing my car would be fast.

Gregg

12.20 @ 114

Not doggin you but I would like to see a pic of those plugs.
Also, what O2 sensor did you hook your gauge up to. It just seems like a lot of power to be running through stock injectors.

Eric

i don't like to say i told ya so...but too many people have tried it...just as many have blown up....as i said, good luck. Hope for your sake she holds together and you don't become the next victim of a #3 big end failure...but then agian i know nothing about WRX's cause i don't own one. :rolleyes:

Oops. Double post

Oh boy the days of the Honda chat rooms are back......

Good night....

Gregg

12.20 @ 114

Ps the Apex A/F only works off of ONE of the two o2's.....mine is connected to the proper one.

You spent $5k on an a/f hookup??? I hope it is the A/F sniffer hookup that attaches to the Dynojet AWD dyno. We actually paid $6k for ours but I'm sure it is the same thing.

The reason I am hesitant is because I work with duty cycles and "hp/lb per hour" on injectors every day and am very aware of how what injector can handle what horsepower and I don't want to see you destroy an awesome engine. My EGT's were showing fine and my spark plugs looked awesome and guess what? This is what my piston looked like after it blew up! Even with what I thought was plently of injector!

I'm not trying to start a flame war. I'm just giving my opinion of what happens when you starting running lean regardless of what gauges tell you! I work with engines that create a lot of hp/liter every day and know what can happen!

Eric

Well, it won;t let me attach the file but trust me, IT IS BAD!

IMPREZ.....I understand what you are saying 100% and trust me if my car needed a bigger injector I would have them.

I have a pump and injectors ready to go......I just don't need them yet.

The A/F hookup I am referring to is a meter that we got from Australia that rally teams use to measure their A/F readings.

Thanx for the input and concern....I had a long talk with some of the biggest players in the injector industry and through our calculations a bigger injector is not necessary at this point!!

Gregg

12.20 @ 114

America's quickest wrx to date!!

Could that $5000 piece of equipment be the Subaru Scan-Tool that most Subaru Tech's have access to through their dealership?

Whats not to understand about the logic used to tune this WRX? Wet Shot N20, AFC, 3 different A/F monitors showing a Rich Condition. Why would you waste money on Injectors when you don't need them. From another perspective I'd rather be safe then sorry. I'm not the type that would wait until I am runny lean to get new FP and Injectors.

Brad

May I ask silly questions?

What is your A/F ratio at max boost?

What does everyone think it should be (i.e. what is the "perfect" A/F ratio for a WRX? 11:1?) ?

Thanks!

Gregg,
How many miles are on your car? Is this a trailered show car or a daily driver? I would imagine that if it doesn't see much driving outside the track that you would be able to safely get passes through without too much wear and tear on your engine. For all practical purposes I would imagine that as a rule of thumb that injectors be replaced with an upgraded turbo setup. Especially when running 16+ psi's. What amount of pressure are you running? I am not one to judge you as my car is not that hopped up yet and don't have first hand knowledge, but just curious as to why your findings differ from almost everyone else on this board that have gone through the same mod list - maybe minus the NOS. Much props to you if you are running this car like most of us as daily driver's with 10-15k miles a year.

Nirmit

Originally posted by HndaTch627
proven professional?? how so?? by showing that with bolt ons and improper tuning and shot of nitrous corrects for all the flaws in tuning??




Whatever :rolleyes: another internet know it all :) proven professional to the fact that gregg has been building race ready and street cars for years, and knows *** he is talking about... Im not going to give in and get into a little internet flame war with you because you need it to make yourself feel like you know it all. :devil:


Rob

What many people on this thread are failing to understand is that when you run NOS you can use really small main injectors b/c the NOS wet system can pump in mega fuel . . . its just a matter of screwing in a bigger NOS fuel jet till you get the right mixture

The issue is IF you want to have a nice running car OFF NOS and when your driving around from day to day

Now that he's going to the vf30 - i think he will find that the stock injectors will limit his usable HP output OFF NOS - - see www.turboxs.com for dyno sheets with vf30 with and without sti injectors for comparison

For me - the entire concept of having a car tunned only to run fast on the bottle is alien - however - to each his own

However - what people are saying about this guy - that he is running lean or dangerous with the stock injectors on a NOS wet kit is not accurate

IMHO - its the possibility of fuel puddling in the intake manifold - OR the possibility of the NOS not properly distributing to each clynder is the dangerous point to me - - - - a direct port injection system would be the safer approach

IT'S CALLED NITROUS!!!!

NOS = Nitrous Oxide Systems (a company)
Nitrous = what you inject into your engine

Eric

This is NOS:

Originally posted by alfriedesq
What many people on this thread are failing to understand is that when you run NOS you can use really small main injectors b/c the NOS wet system can pump in mega fuel . . . its just a matter of screwing in a bigger NOS fuel jet till you get the right mixture

The issue is IF you want to have a nice running car OFF NOS and when your driving around from day to day

Now that he's going to the vf30 - i think he will find that the stock injectors will limit his usable HP output OFF NOS - - see www.turboxs.com for dyno sheets with vf30 with and without sti injectors for comparison

For me - the entire concept of having a car tunned only to run fast on the bottle is alien - however - to each his own

However - what people are saying about this guy - that he is running lean or dangerous with the stock injectors on a NOS wet kit is not accurate

IMHO - its the possibility of fuel puddling in the intake manifold - OR the possibility of the NOS not properly distributing to each clynder is the dangerous point to me - - - - a direct port injection system would be the safer approach that's all i was trying to say...and that's why i asked if he was upping the fuel nozzle. w/o the nitrous running the car will be rather lean. but only time will tell.

jeremy

Thanx guys....lets stop this little injector debate right here....

If you want injectors go buy them!!

I just feel my wrx doesn't need them yet. I have a pump and injectors in my possession as we speak.

However, until I see an indication that MY car needs them I will hold off. Every car is different.....so just because one guys wrx runs a bit lean doesn't mean another will.

Also, 90% of people don't even understand the whole deal with
pumps
pressure
regulators
volume
etc
etc

All they know is this guy has injectors so I need injectors. This forum is not to say who needs them and who doesn't. When I started this thread it was to update interested people on what was going on with my car. If they think THEY need injectors for THEIR car awesome....im not going to tell them they do or don't need them.

I just don't think I need them for my set-up yet!!

End of discussion

Mr Freeze...my car is a daily driver and I have around 4,000 miles on it. When I ran the 12.20 pass I drove it to the track and back on 18 inch wheels with pump gas!!

Last but not least I use this forum to learn, help, find, and to increase my knowledge of the wrx....Im not here , nor should anyone be here, to bad mouth someone or tell them they don't know what they are doing. If I didn't know what I was doing I wouldn't have the quickest wrx in america.

I want my wrx to go 1320 feet as fast as possible and I'll do as much research and development as I have to to attain this. I don't care if I am the "fastest" I just want my wrx to be "FAST!"
Whether it means NOS or not, whether it means injectors or not, whether it means fuel pump or not, that is for me to decide and only my time slips and vehicle will tell ME what to change.

Thanx for all the "intelligent" replies ( you guys know who you are!)

Last but not least good luck to all the "Independent" wrx tuners out there using this forum as I am.....to increase knowledge of the wrx as much as possible!!

Gregg

12.20 @ 114

Sorry to hijack your thread there for a little bit. :) I just hate it when people call nitrous NOS ;)

Eric

No prob bro....


Gregg

Originally posted by Imprezinator
IT'S CALLED NITROUS!!!!

NOS = Nitrous Oxide Systems (a company)
Nitrous = what you inject into your engine

What do you use to blow your nose with... "facial tissue" or kleenex? ;)

--jeff (I have yet to hear one person say facial tissue in person ;) )

edit: Sorry, I had to. For some reason I find it morally necessary to play devil's advocate. :devil:

i use my shirt

Originally posted by Avedis


What do you use to blow your nose with... "facial tissue" or kleenex? ;)

--jeff (I have yet to hear one person say facial tissue in person ;) )

edit: Sorry, I had to. For some reason I find it morally necessary to play devil's advocate. :devil: Do you go Rollerblading or In_Line Skating? :D

Oh... and good luck. :)

Originally posted by Imprezinator
Sorry to hijack your thread there for a little bit. :) I just hate it when people call nitrous NOS ;)

Eric

But Eric, Gregg IS using NOS.

Avedis and KC: I do call facial tissue kleenex. You got me there. But everyone calls it kleenex. I call in-line skating in-line skating though.

But there is a difference. People don't call nitrous "NOS". Ricers call nitrous "NOS". Go to the track and listen to what racers and people in the industry call it. They call it Nitrous. People who don't know W-T-F they are talking about call it "NOS". :)

Turismo Lou: I didn't say that Gregg called it NOS. It was others in the thread. :) But even so, other people have said people have used the term "NOS" when they weren't reffering to the brand.

Eric

yeah, but they called it "NOS" in the "Fast and the Furious"! I know, they said it at least 100 times!

BTW: What kind of fuel ratio is too lean? 11:1? 12:1?

Thanks

How many different colors has your car been?

hehe when you copy something do you xerox it?

wicked, are you running with a boost controller and if so how many pounds of boost. Also, what shot of NOS:monkey: are you running and is it direct ported to every cylinder or how is your NOS:monkey: setup. The one thing I have learned about the WRX is that the stock ecu is highly under rated.

Now people are just being jackasses. whatever...

Eric

Disco it was blue and now it's yellow.

ProjectWrx I run an avc-r set @ 19 psi no nos

14 psi plus nos=around 20 psi

I am using the NOS brand wet kit with one nozzle directly before the throttle body. I have the kit CURRENTLY jetted @ 60 hp

Gregg

12.20 @ 114

Hey Gregg, can't wait to you hit 11's!. My goal is much more modest though. I'll be happy doing high 12's. My WRX is, as far as real peformance mods, practically stock. I have an M2 catback, Injen CAI, Boost Monkey set to 16.5PSI and IC water sprayer. With that and race gas I get consistent 13.90's. I will be completing the exhaust to full turbo back, uppipe and cold plugs. I figure getting the full exhaust, uppipe, plugs, race gas and a N20 kit I can hit my target. My question is, what N20 setup do you recommend for this setup? I really want it to be safe and reliable of course and am guessing I need no more than a 50 shot, but what kit and what other stuff do I need to support this? I'm guessing I don't need to modify anything in the fuel system since you haven't, so what do I need? Would it be better for me to go Direct Port Injected? Any info will be apreciated. Thanks.