Here is the dyno on pump gas, 17psi, with catalytic converter in place:

http://www.projectcobb.com/conebasher/images/conebasherdyno_vs_stock_l.gif


Here is the dyno on race gas, cat removed, 18psi:

http://www.cobbtuning.com/images/conebasher_racegas.gif


You can read more about the car at http://www.projectcobb.com/conebasher/

Whats impressive, is they weren't even trying, or aware that they were approaching the USA dyno record with this car. They just wanted good low rpm power for autocrossing. When I pointed out to Chris that they were close to the record with that pump gas run, they hit 400 just for fun :)

that was with the APS SR40 turbo which was maxed out

they say they will slap on the SR50 tomorrow just for fun to see what it will do :)

oh, for some perspective, check this out:

http://24.160.114.191:8080/power.xls

check the power band compared to some other cars

This a track car too, not a drag car. Totally useable powerband that isn't peaky. I think this shows things to come. Also notice that the car doesn't keep making power on the top end (looks like there is a LOT of untapped potential).

Just plain sick. btw,

Texas takes the HP Record! :p

Very nice - - but its 2.5 Litre - so its a seperate catagory

Looks to me after close examination of the dyno sheets that the sr40 wont spool that great on a regular 2.0 litre block

On a 2.0 - I'd say it would spool up about the same as the pe1820 - - no telling how the peak HP would vary - becuase they have also thrown cams and other tricks in the mix as well

I would really love to see a dyno sheet on that SR40 turbo on a base stock WRX block motor

In conclusion - COBB seems to be doing great work and it shows with the amazing looking cone basher car !

I see, displacement changes your category.
but not STI motors, FP Green turbos, etc.

seems kinda arbitrary =)


Originally posted by alfriedesq
Very nice - - but its 2.5 Litre - so its a seperate catagory

Looks to me after close examination of the dyno sheets that the sr40 wont spool that great on a regular 2.0 litre block

On a 2.0 - I'd say it would spool up about the same as the pe1820 - - no telling how the peak HP would vary - becuase they have also thrown cams and other tricks in the mix as well

I would really love to see a dyno sheet on that SR40 turbo on a base stock WRX block motor

In conclusion - COBB seems to be doing great work and it shows with the amazing looking cone basher car !

Originally posted by jmott
I see, displacement changes your category.
but not STI motors, FP Green turbos, etc.

seems kinda arbitrary =)


Well - - if you look at motorsports - displacement is very commonly used as a limitation - e.g. - group N

I know nothing of 2.5 L turbo subarus - - it looks to be a totally unique animal - certainly very hard to compare spool up times with a 2.0 L

As far as sti motors - its the same 2.0 L

Originally posted by alfriedesq
Well - - if you look at motorsports - displacement is very commonly used as a limitation - e.g. - group N

I know nothing of 2.5 L turbo subarus - - it looks to be a totally unique animal - certainly very hard to compare spool up times with a 2.0 L

As far as sti motors - its the same 2.0 L

turbos are also often used as a limitation.
as are restrictor plates
as is type of fuel

and nobody is comparing spool up times here.
the only point here is to declare victory, for now, in the petty and silly war that is WHOOPASSSS dyno records.

silly but fun!
and this is the most powerful WRX in the USA.
and it didn't need fancy STI heads, or intake to do it ;)

but don't let me get to you. im just messing around.
MY car only puts down 250 to the wheels. :(

Either way you look at it, those numbers are VERY impressive.

UNREAL numbers!!!

Could you let me know what your set-up is I am very interested!!

Gregg

12.20 @ 114

"Could you let me know what your set-up is I am very interested!!"

It's Cobb Tuning's AutoX car.

Read about it here. (http://www.projectcobb.com/conebasher/ )

--jeff

I guess I can understand being so excited from the dyno's that you didn't read the text that went along with it in the post. It took me a minute to calm down and climb back up into my chair after seeing the charts. ;)

--jeff

Last I check this forum was to brag about Hp numbers and time slips. What evers in the motor COBB still got the record.

Mike

Reason enough for me to get a 2.5 block

:eek:

Just in case some of you haven't seen this beast in person, here is a couple of pics of the ConeBasher in action at a local AutoX.

http://www.boomspeed.com/dazz/chrisf1.jpg

http://www.boomspeed.com/dazz/chrisf2.jpg

http://www.boomspeed.com/dazz/chrisfeng1.jpg

http://www.boomspeed.com/dazz/chrisfeng2.jpg

http://www.boomspeed.com/dazz/chrisfinter2.jpg

http://www.boomspeed.com/dazz/chrisftrack.jpg



Some of the TXIC members were fortune enough to ride shotgun in this beast.:)

Thats nothing. I was told that there will be a much more powerful one coming from Cobb. About twice the HP to the wheels.

Originally posted by -=Ph/\t WRX=-
Thats nothing. I was told that there will be a much more powerful one coming from Cobb. About twice the HP to the wheels.

if you are referring to project 666, that wont be a WRX
and no telling what engine is involved
but nitrous is =)

I know its not a WRX, thats why I didn't say WRX. Yeah its going to be on the older body. I'm guessing a flat 6 will be the engine.

Originally posted by jmott


if you are referring to project 666, that wont be a WRX
and no telling what engine is involved
but nitrous is =)

I wonder why they use the 18" wheels on it. Some 15 or 16" wheels would probably work better for autocross. Unless they are using a different transmission with better gearing or something.

If I remember correctly the tires are 285/30/18 on the front and back! Rims are about 11 or 12" wide.

I hate to say it but I agree with Al. Those are sick numbers and much respect to those guys but it is a 2.5l. It is the most powerfull wrx in the U.S. but i'm not really impressed with the numbers from a car that has that much more work done to it.

Later today or tomorrow you will see why i'm not very impressed with those #'s. ;)

Originally posted by blkwrxwgn
I hate to say it but I agree with Al. Those are sick numbers and much respect to those guys but it is a 2.5l. It is the most powerfull wrx in the U.S. but i'm not really impressed with the numbers from a car that has that much more work done to it.

Later today or tomorrow you will see why i'm not very impressed with those #'s. ;)


later today cobb will also have dynos from that car with a BIG turbo on it =)

besides, the car with more work done to it will always win, unless one of the car's tuning is out of whack.

there is no magic in engine output.

Very true jmott but I think it's really impressive what some cars are doing right now with simple bolt-ons. ;)

west coast will ownz all of you by tomorrow. :D

Those fenders look badass!!!!:devil:

Originally posted by blkwrxwgn
Very true jmott but I think it's really impressive what some cars are doing right now with simple bolt-ons. ;)

west coast will ownz all of you by tomorrow. :D

which cars?
EVORACE1 is making 390hp
but its a lag beast. It would be useless for anything but drag racing

The Cone Basher does not seem to perform as well on the track as the looks and numbers would indicate.

Originally posted by boxerT
The Cone Basher does not seem to perform as well on the track as the looks and numbers would indicate.

iirc, last year it was the texas SMOD champ, and finished in the middle of the pack at nationals....

we shall see how they do this year I suppose.

mebe we need to let a different Chris drive it....
:D

Originally posted by jmott


which cars?
EVORACE1 is making 390hp
but its a lag beast. It would be useless for anything but drag racing
It looks really crappy on the dyno, I have no idea why. If it truly spooled and made power as it appears on the dynosheet, yes, it would suck bigtime. It gets 20 psi by 3800-4000, and is VERY responsive on the street.

Originally posted by 122andy

It looks really crappy on the dyno, I have no idea why. If it truly spooled and made power as it appears on the dynosheet, yes, it would suck bigtime. It gets 20 psi by 3800-4000, and is VERY responsive on the street.

possibly because it has more load on the street.
'responsive' is of course subjective.
Im sure its a fun car to drive, but not as versatile as it could be.

This story inspired me to greatness - - I agree now that sticking with the very confining limitations of the tiny 2.0 L format is very old school thinking and out of flavor

I can remember the mantra of my ole' 76 Chevy Nova days - "no replacement for displacement" - I think these guys at Cobb are on to something very inovative and exciting . . . . I think I will follow suit

The nice guys at Bill's truck service here in Stamford has a lovely "Class of 86" peterbuilt tractor rig with giant multi mega litre super turbo disel cat power collecting dust on the side of the road

If I can strike a deal . . . .

My plan is to swap in the truck powerplant to help me with my spool up limitations - - the motor mounts may not line up but I was going to run over to home depot and get some treated marine lumber to fabricate a cross brace to hold the whole thing in there

Who needs a 6 spd when there are 18 speeds out there ready to swap ???

Only issue is IF I can find a unichip tunner who can provide a unichip that will match ???

hahaha!


Originally posted by alfriedesq
This story inspired me to greatness - - I agree now that sticking with the very confining limitations of the tiny 2.0 L format is very old school thinking and out of flavor

I can remember the mantra of my ole' 76 Chevy Nova days - "no replacement for displacement" - I think these guys at Cobb are on to something very inovative and exciting . . . . I think I will follow suit

The nice guys at Bill's truck service here in Stamford has a lovely "Class of 86" peterbuilt tractor rig with giant multi mega litre super turbo disel cat power collecting dust on the side of the road

If I can strike a deal . . . .

My plan is to swap in the truck powerplant to help me with my spool up limitations - - the motor mounts may not line up but I was going to run over to home depot and get some treated marine lumber to fabricate a cross brace to hold the whole thing in there

Only issue is IF I can find a unichip tunner who can provide a unichip that will match ???

Would that be Chris Ramey...?

Originally posted by jmott


possibly because it has more load on the street.
'responsive' is of course subjective.
Im sure its a fun car to drive, but not as versatile as it could be. I guess it all comes down to machine. My experience with dynoing DSMs on a Dynojet has boost and power coming up exactly where they do on the street. My car hits 29psi on the street at 4700 rpm, and it hits 29 psi at 4700 rpm on the dyno. I suppose the dynapack is way different.

When I say "responsive", I am saying it with over 6 years of experience of tooling with DSMs, from stock to 500 hp, autocross cars to full out drag cars and everything in between. I think I have a good understanding of how responsive a street car should be.

Its not versatile as it could be? Man, cant please everyone. Have you driven it yet?

Originally posted by 122andy
I guess it all comes down to machine. My experience with dynoing DSMs on a Dynojet has boost and power coming up exactly where they do on the street. My car hits 29psi on the street at 4700 rpm, and it hits 29 psi at 4700 rpm on the dyno. I suppose the dynapack is way different.

When I say "responsive", I am saying it with over 6 years of experience of tooling with DSMs, from stock to 500 hp, autocross cars to full out drag cars and everything in between. I think I have a good understanding of how responsive a street car should be.

Its not versatile as it could be? Man, cant please everyone. Have you driven it yet?


nope but I've driven my car in stock turbo + turbo back + tuned unichip form, which had a bit more low rpm power than even that 2.5 liter beast there.

after getting a SLIGHTLY bigger turbo, I found the added lag annoying.

see, your saying its "responsive" based on years of experience with DSMs.

if you were coming from years of experience with Supercharged V8s..... its all relative ya know?

Originally posted by boxerT
Would that be Chris Ramey...?

ya!
in my limited experience with autocrossing (regular attendance at houston SCCA events), he is the best driver I've seen.

Ive never seen Chris F drive. at least, not from on course where I can tell whats up.

I LOVE the Cobb fender and I like the idea of 2.5 liters of displacement but at $5000 for just parts!! OUch!

I am with Al on this one, as soon as they increase displacement to 2.5 liters it's not a WRX anymore. Just my opinion, but if I can find some way to do the 2.5 liters for $5000 total (not just parts) I'll do it in a second!

Good Luck.

Originally posted by 122andy
I guess it all comes down to machine. My experience with dynoing DSMs on a Dynojet has boost and power coming up exactly where they do on the street. My car hits 29psi on the street at 4700 rpm, and it hits 29 psi at 4700 rpm on the dyno. I suppose the dynapack is way different.

Loading dynos (Mustang & Dynamic Dyno) and the Inertial dynos (DynoJet dyno) will all have different "sampling/display techniques."
It is impossible to compare dyno numbers from different dyno machines.

Here is somthing else to consider about the Dynojet...

http://forums.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=194654&highlight=dynojet

Sorry if I missed it elsewhere in this thread, but is that even a real dyno? Looks like that "calculation" software RiftsWRX was using....

VV

Originally posted by VetteVert
Sorry if I missed it elsewhere in this thread, but is that even a real dyno? Looks like that "calculation" software RiftsWRX was using....

VV

yes its a real dyno.
Ive had my car on it.

Thanks...I've just never seen output like that (not that I've seen a lot of them....)

VV

Originally posted by jmott


yes its a real dyno.
Ive had my car on it.

Mott, you did get a turbo with the turbine clipped right??

Well there is your lag problem right there.

Originally posted by jmott





see, your saying its "responsive" based on years of experience with DSMs.

if you were coming from years of experience with Supercharged V8s..... its all relative ya know? I thought that what I was saying was totally relative to what we are talking about, and that is the responsiveness of turbocharged 2.0 liter 4 cylinder motors, whether it be a DSM or WRX. Even a very responsive DSM/WRX autocross car will never match the low end torque and snap of a roots blown V8. Comparing it to a roots blown V8 is apples to oranges. You will just never get that kind of response, period. There is even a big difference on which supercharger you are using on that big V8, a roots or centrifugal. Ya know?

It’s very interesting to hear the somewhat defensive comments about the fact that we have increased the displacement of a WRX to 2.5L. Our primary goal with this car is to be nationally competitive in our Auto-x class. This requires a very broad and torquey powerband, which is our reason for using the larger displacement shortblock. It has never been our intention to get into “cat-fights” with other dyno queens whose egos are obviously extremely fragile.

More important, I think it has demonstrated the capabilities of the new APS SR40 turbocharger. Regardless of the displacement engine we’ve bolted it to, we have shown that the SR40 turbocharger can flow enough air to support these power levels.

As for the SR40 being as laggy as the PE1820, we will be posting dyno graphs very soon to show how this is not the case. We have a stock-engine WRX here we’ve tested back-to-back with 1820 vs. SR40. And Al, it’s also a Silver WRX (like yours) so hopefully there won’t be any excuses about how the Blue cars, or Yellow, are somehow different. ;)

When does a WRX not become a WRX? Using this logic, even the acclaimed Rigoli’s are not running a WRX because they are running more than 2.0L of displacement. Pretty silly logic if you ask me!

Maybe you guys should break these “titles” down into multiple sections? For those that don’t want to spend more than $5000, have a record for that. Maybe have a title for only stock internal 2.0L blocks. Heck, how about a title for stock engine WRX running stock wheels only on a Saturday?

We’ll take our title of “Most Powerful 2.5L WRX painted Solar Yellow running on 18x10 wheels raced every Sunday”. Will that make everyone happy? :) Oh yeah, and until someone (hopefully soon!) puts down more power, it’s also the most powerful WRX in the country…no excuses given, none taken.

Regards,
Trey Cobb.

P.S. For those interested, we have a video of our injector-limited 421 AWHP run at:
http://www.cobbtuning.com/conebasher/dynorun.html

Amen Trey.. I see NO reason why you dont have the most powerful WRX in the country right now.. 2.5L or not.

Categories are there for those folks who don't want to get their feelings hurt.

Extremely killer numbers!

fight fight fight figh!

:lol:

Good job Trey.

dwx - the 330mm 6 piston brakes will not fit under a 15-16' rim.

blkwrxwagon - we are all waiting to see why you are not impressed at all... Oh wait COBB just put up a 421hp run, guess that is what you were waiting for. But wait, you said the west coast will 'ownz' them... ???

boxerT - Hilarious, doesn't perform as well on the track as it looks? That was about the funniest post in the thread! Thanks!

For all of those who are whining about the cost/displacement, just about as funny!!!! My experience has been speed cost money, and more displacement leads to more power.

Bottom line is Trey and his staff are making some of the most powerful - and USEABLE Subaru engines in the land. They provide 2.0l engines for SCCA Pro rally - the mfg's got together last year to ban 2.5's because they knew they couldn't compete with COBB. Turns out that the mfg's can't keep up with AV Sport this year! Any way you look at it, dynamite for consumers. Competition breeds better products, and the consumer wins. For all of the various power providers, keep up the good work! Pushing each other will benefit us all.

In "theory", if a 2.5 motor put out as much power per cubic inch as a 390hp 2.0 does, it would be a 487hp monster! You guys need to get back to work;) .

So when are the big "tooners" going to have something available for the guys who want 400whp without doing motorswaps or adding nitrous? I figured these cars would be well past that by now.

Originally posted by 122andy
In "theory", if a 2.5 motor put out as much power per cubic inch as a 390hp 2.0 does, it would be a 487hp monster! You guys need to get back to work;) .

So when are the big "tooners" going to have something available for the guys who want 400whp without doing motorswaps or adding nitrous? I figured these cars would be well past that by now.

they do, just slap on an SR50 and some big injectors.

its not rocket science =)


and in theory, its fundamentally harder to get more HP per liter as your liters increase. AND, when desiging a car for maximum low rpm power (autocross) you make sacrifices on the high end.

again, not rocket science.

Originally posted by jmott


they do, just slap on an SR50 and some big injectors.

its not rocket science =)


and in theory, its fundamentally harder to get more HP per liter as your liters increase. AND, when desiging a car for maximum low rpm power (autocross) you make sacrifices on the high end.

again, not rocket science. Wow. I guess it isnt rocket science. So who is using the SR50 on their car with success? By it not being rocket science I guess there are jsut a slew of guys running around Texas with 400hp WRXs? Any dyno sheets of these cars or 1/4 mile passes yet? If a 2.0 can make 400 hp with one, why is the 2.5 only making 420hp? Just not enough R&D?

Yes, it is very true that it is harder to get more power/ci as engine size increases, but then again top fuel dragsters are doing pretty good as far as output per cubic inch;). Yeh, I know thats an EXTREME example, but there isnt much size difference between a 2.0 and a 2.5, and doesnt look to be much of a power difference either. I would hope bottom end is much better, hence the reason why going to that motor for autocross.

Man, the SR50s just came in a week ago!

and if you were paying attention, you would see they said it was injector limited, and they are sticking in bigger injectors soon.

we shall see =)



Originally posted by 122andy
Wow. I guess it isnt rocket science. So who is using the SR50 on their car with success? By it not being rocket science I guess there are jsut a slew of guys running around Texas with 400hp WRXs? Any dyno sheets of these cars or 1/4 mile passes yet? If a 2.0 can make 400 hp with one, why is the 2.5 only making 420hp? Just not enough R&D?

Yes, it is very true that it is harder to get more power/ci as engine size increases, but then again top fuel dragsters are doing pretty good as far as output per cubic inch;). Yeh, I know thats an EXTREME example, but there isnt much size difference between a 2.0 and a 2.5, and doesnt look to be much of a power difference either. I would hope bottom end is much better, hence the reason why going to that motor for autocross.

Originally posted by jmott
Man, the SR50s just came in a week ago!



Come one, come all, strap on a SR50 and make 400hp guarunteed, its not rocket science!

Originally posted by 122andy
Come one, come all, strap on a SR50 and make 400hp guarunteed, its not rocket science!

Your dyno graph would look like this:

^

Well, I am coming here late on this, but to me this is not a WRX, it seems to me to be tantamount to putting a wrx wing on a McLaren F1 and calling it a WRX. I know that is a stretch, but really a WRX should at least use the same 2.0l engine, etc.

Erm - who cares...if REX's came as a twin turbo V6 - would you not buy one because the WRC car is a 2.0L 4 banger? I would...

:rolleyes: ;)

--Rich

Cobb built this car to the letter of the SCCA rulebook for autocrossing in the Street Modified class, not to be the most powerful WRX.

From what I see of numbers and specification they have succeeded admirably in building what should be a competitive SM car. A broad torque curve is king in autocrossing. Responsiveness and power even at 2000 RPM are very important. The car will be looping around tight corners in 2nd gear at 30mph sometimes. That corner will probably open up into a short straight and good response is important to get the car moving in a hurry from low rpm!

Progressiveness is also important, you don't want the car to hit the boost hard in the middle of a corner, you'd deviate from your line or have to back off a little.

These were the kinds of things they were thinking about building this car, not anybody's dyno records. Congrats to Cobb for 'accidentally' breaking a record without even trying! :)

This is very similar to the car I'd build... very nice.

Originally posted by WhiteRX
Well, I am coming here late on this, but to me this is not a WRX, it seems to me to be tantamount to putting a wrx wing on a McLaren F1 and calling it a WRX. I know that is a stretch, but really a WRX should at least use the same 2.0l engine, etc.

So, by that logic, when you throw a 383 stroker into a Camaro it ceases to be a Camaro?

Or when you throw the V8 from a M5 into an M3 it ceases to be an M3? (bad example, since the rules of the series now state that it isn't)

Originally posted by 122andy
Come one, come all, strap on a SR50 and make 400hp guarunteed, its not rocket science!

this from the guy who said that people were hitting 380hp with just "simple bolt ons"

Yes, for me a WRX would still have the 2.0l motor, so those cars are no longer what they started as. It is, however, hard to draw a line and say, for example, if the new motor is more than 10% bigger it is no longer to be qualified as an X but a Y or X+. Case in point, you can stroke the 2.0l to 2.2 and I still consider it to be a WRX with a stroked 2.0l. Sort of like the same shell, but the interior got bigger. So if the camaro kept the same 5.7l v8 and the M3 the same 3.2 6, just stroked/massaged to the larger size, than it is still a camaro or M3, but when a whole different engine is dropped in, it stops. Of course this is just my opinion and stems from me wanting to know what a WRX will do when the motor it came with is given some enhancements, not when a new/different engine is dropped in.

And I am unsure what you are saying digital. I am talking about the WRX in the first place. Of course if it came TT V6 I would buy it and in the same way not agree it was a WRX if someone dropped in a TT V10 from a viper and called it a WRX. Same scenario, just a different starting point.

The EJ25 shortblock is dimensionally the same as a EJ20 shortblock. We still use WRX heads, WRX manifolds, WRX timing belt, etc. So if we had instead taken a EJ20 block and bored and stroked it to the same extent that a EJ25 already is, would that be different from what we did?

Perhaps you should take another look at the picture posted at the beginning of this thread that shows the engine bay. You'll see that it physically looks no different than any other RT Spec car. If we hadn't told people it was a 2.5L engine, there would be no way you would have known. ;)

I'd see your point if we had thrown the H6, or a V8, into the car. In this case, however, I don't think your point that our car is no longer a WRX is valid.

Regards,
Trey Cobb.

Originally posted by jmott


this from the guy who said that people were hitting 380hp with just "simple bolt ons" Well, I see you are finally agreeing with what I am saying. Its nice to see someone else has a turbo available that has these kinds of capabilities, it will be nice when they actually start putting them on cars.

Heres what I dont understand. The Subabru gurus saw the WRXs coming from a long way away. They have had years of testing and development overseas, albeit the older ones arent quite what we got here, but close. These things have been out for a year now, and they are just now breaking 400whp, and they arent even able to do that with the motor it comes with. This is with YEARS of Subarau experience and tons of resources. But then some guys working out of a basement can throw a car together in a few days (literally), and make more power than shops that are burning there own chips, have dyno facilities, R&D departments, on and on. Heck, we are even using the stock ECU with $400 worth of piggyback electronics, whereas the big tuners require a $800 chip that has to be reprogrammed every other step of the way. All I am saying is that it ISNT rocket science, I figured it out, everyone else with half a brain should to. Why are the specialized tuner shops making it so hard for the customers to make power?

This is hilarious! COBB built one of the most streetable Subaru WRX's yet seen. However, when they put up hard numbers and a description of how they do it, they catch a bunch of crap for it??? Not a WRX??? That is beautiful! It is really entertaining to read some of the posts here! It generally makes my day. Everybody has the best this or that.

Cobb has been doing a lot of work for the professional / semi-professional racing community for some time. They speak through their successes, and though hard numbers. They are the only company I have heard of actively proving their claims though racing results. Last year the conebasher car was the fastest WRX at nationals, running a 2.0l by the way. They are building the engines for AV Sport, and they are cleaning up in Pro Rally this year... So who else is doing such good deeds?

As for the whiners, get a life! No matter what you do, there will always be somebody with more smarts and more money who will be able to build something better than you! Personally I am not too concerned, I checked my ego at the door years ago!

In Cobb's case, I think I can speak for them when I say that

1. They aren't interested in peak power numbers, but making cars with nice powerbands, that are very reliable.

I think the average enthusiast who can do the wrenching on his car himself, will have much less of a safety margin, since if crap blows up, he can fix it himself, no big deal.

'tuner' cars have to be tuned and given to somebody who may be clueless, and doesn't want to deal with lag, doesn't want it to break, ever, even if he abuses it and doesn't have guages, etc etc.

in other words, Im sure vishnu, or cobb, or turboxs could have slapped on an FP green, some huge injectors, a big intercooler, a big exauhst, and tuned it for 400/500hp

they just weren't interested, is my guess.

kina like im not interested in having an FP green on my car.
12s is good enough in the raw power department for me. I want the least lag I can get and still be in the 12s.



Originally posted by 122andy
Well, I see you are finally agreeing with what I am saying. Its nice to see someone else has a turbo available that has these kinds of capabilities, it will be nice when they actually start putting them on cars.

Heres what I dont understand. The Subabru gurus saw the WRXs coming from a long way away. They have had years of testing and development overseas, albeit the older ones arent quite what we got here, but close. These things have been out for a year now, and they are just now breaking 400whp, and they arent even able to do that with the motor it comes with. This is with YEARS of Subarau experience and tons of resources. But then some guys working out of a basement can throw a car together in a few days (literally), and make more power than shops that are burning there own chips, have dyno facilities, R&D departments, on and on. Heck, we are even using the stock ECU with $400 worth of piggyback electronics, whereas the big tuners require a $800 chip that has to be reprogrammed every other step of the way. All I am saying is that it ISNT rocket science, I figured it out, everyone else with half a brain should to. Why are the specialized tuner shops making it so hard for the customers to make power?

it quacks like a duck...
it even looks like a duck...
well it must be a duck!!!:lol:

this is in defense of cobb tuning for build a very nice
car from what I saw and read in the previous post.
so what the engine is 2.5l it should came with anyways.
Not to mention those amazing brakes!

i would have rather bought it that way from the factory.
But the those rules that govern some class of racing that
most of us watch on tv seems sort removed. Now pylon racing
is something the masses can do without too much prep work...

grow up...
:lol:

I'm sure everything Cobb does is top notch. Im not the one saying it isnt a WRX, either. People try to pull that crap all the time in the DSM community, also. Fastest on stock sidemount, fastest on stock turbo, fastest Black 91 fwd. The motor is a *little* different, though, considering it is the heart of the car. Congrats to them for making a very powerful, well-rounded car. I was just saying that you would think there would be the guys over here in this country that would be making tons of power by now, but its not the case.

It just seems that Mott has run his mouth and spread mis-information in numerous threads about the Green powered WRX being "laggy", "unusable", etc. That is far from the case. He will never know, though. But hey, just throw it in the barrel with all the other crap you read on the internet, right?

Reliability? 4 months of daily driven abuse, as much as 25 psi, still on stock clutch, no broken trans yet. Passes the test so far. Not bad on the "****ty" stock ECU.

Originally posted by 122andy
I'm sure everything Cobb does is top notch. Im not the one saying it isnt a WRX, either. People try to pull that crap all the time in the DSM community, also. Fastest on stock sidemount, fastest on stock turbo, fastest Black 91 fwd. The motor is a *little* different, though, considering it is the heart of the car. Congrats to them for making a very powerful, well-rounded car. I was just saying that you would think there would be the guys over here in this country that would be making tons of power by now, but its not the case.

It just seems that Mott has run his mouth and spread mis-information in numerous threads about the Green powered WRX being "laggy", "unusable", etc. That is far from the case. He will never know, though. But hey, just throw it in the barrel with all the other crap you read on the internet, right?

Reliability? 4 months of daily driven abuse, as much as 25 psi, still on stock clutch, no broken trans yet. Passes the test so far. Not bad on the "****ty" stock ECU. Well first lets say that the 1/8 mile times that the green turbo car has already liad down on a actual race track show that IT is the fastest WRX in the USA - bar none.

Lets see this cone basher pull some 1/4 mile pasess and then we'll see if it really has the goods or if its only fast in a parking lot in 2nd gear

Also - I stand by my thoughts that a 425 hp claim on a 2.5 L enigine is impressive and wonderful - but of little relevance to the vast magority of WRX owners who are running 2.0 L - - - 2.5 is a totally different bag

Is a 2.5 RS with a 2.0 turbo WRX motor still a 2.5 RS?

I find cobb hypocritical ! A while ago Cobb was posting before (on the other threads I had going about Turboxs and thier dyno claims - which were deleted ) - claiming that dynos are important for tuning purposes only and also claiming that it was silly to compare dyno results on different cars and different dynos - they said that it was not advisable or intelegent to compare dyno results in that manner

now Cobb and others are all jumping on the dyno claim band wagon - using high dyno numbers to lure customers to buy yet another "unichip" controlled tunning stage or kit

I think it says a lot about how ignorant the WRX consumer is that they will jump at these dyno claims and spend hard earned $$

Frankly - and respectfully - i find it shocking and ridiculous that it has taken so called professional tuners in the WRX aftermarket community a WHOLE year to basically duplicate what the australians and japanese have been doing for years

I'm an amature - shade tree mechanic who never touched a turbo car before I got my WRX last May and I've been able to stay at the top of the pack or near to the top in HP numbers and 1/4 mile times for most of the last year

Mostly every step I have taken with my car I was the first or one of the first to do it on a US WRX - - but everything i did had already been done in the overseas market

Lately - there has been an onslaught of dyno figures and claims from a whole range of vendors - this is great for us WRX owners - - there will be more products from which to choose and compare - but lets realize what these people are doing - its a sales promotional excercise

For my own personal use - this particular dyno sheet has little or no relivance - - - - to dump $5,000 on a short block - another $2,500 on head work and cams - $2,000 on labor and gaskets and a very expensive $1,800 turbo - (total $11,300.00) is just not something I can justify for my wrx car when perfectly good used STI VII engines can be had for less than $4,000.00 complete - not to meantion the multi month delay to actually get one of these custom engines in your hands - - - a 2.5 block with re-worked head dyno sheet does very little to show me how this turbo is going to work on my 2.0l or a stock WRX 2.0 l engine and really is not that informative

I am looking forward to the 1820 to sr40 comparison that they are saying they will post soon

However - I decided to go full Garret so very soon I will have some new dyno sheets on a Garret turbo kit that should make the same HP range on a 2.0 l stock wrx engine for a much lower cost

keep up the dyno wars

Guys,

I am the first to admit Trey is more than capable of defending himself!! However, I feel obliged to make a few general comments.

1. The stock WRX drivetrain.
How many of you realize that the current gearbox is fundamentally the same as the original 85 H.P. N.A. 2 litre engine’s gearbox of 20 years ago?

2. We know, as a result of eight years experience, over literally 1000’s of vehicles, that the 320 flywheel H.P. of our R/T is the practical limit of the stock drivetrain. Not absolute, but practical. (We have had customers break trans, even at that H.P., doing what you guys call Solo 1).

3. It is obviously possible to make a great deal more power than 320 H.P. flywheel. Trey for example, is already at 460 H.P. flywheel. We are sure when he starts racing at that, transmissions will fail with monotonous regularity. Fine for a race car, he expects it. Not so fine for the majority of daily drivers here.

4. Any serious WRX in Australia runs non genuine gearbox components. Street or track, we just expect it. Build a serious WRX, spend $5,000.00 US on gearbox internals. It’s just a given.

In any event, just our input, based on many year’s experience in the market place with the longest history of modified WRX’s in the world.

Dave
APS

Originally posted by APS
Guys,

I am the first to admit Trey is more than capable of defending himself!! However, I feel obliged to make a few general comments.

1. The stock WRX drivetrain.
How many of you realize that the current gearbox is fundamentally the same as the original 85 H.P. N.A. 2 litre engine’s gearbox of 20 years ago?

2. We know, as a result of eight years experience, over literally 1000’s of vehicles, that the 320 flywheel H.P. of our R/T is the practical limit of the stock drivetrain. Not absolute, but practical. (We have had customers break trans, even at that H.P., doing what you guys call Solo 1).

3. It is obviously possible to make a great deal more power than 320 H.P. flywheel. Trey for example, is already at 460 H.P. flywheel. We are sure when he starts racing at that, transmissions will fail with monotonous regularity. Fine for a race car, he expects it. Not so fine for the majority of daily drivers here.

4. Any serious WRX in Australia runs non genuine gearbox components. Street or track, we just expect it. Build a serious WRX, spend $5,000.00 US on gearbox internals. It’s just a given.

In any event, just our input, based on many year’s experience in the market place with the longest history of modified WRX’s in the world.

Dave
APS Finally some inteligent words on this thread! I agree 100% with this. After blowing up two transmissions on my WRX and 4 clutches I can attest that the 400 flywheel mark is quite toxic to the stock gear box - the 5spd is a joke !

APS - any thoughts on your recommended MAX HP for the stock STI 6 spd box??

Heres something in regards to another Chris driving... they were talking about the car in general on the TAMSCC when he came up with this reply.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Ramey" <cramey@HOUSTON.RR.COM>
To: <TAMSCC@listserv.tamu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: [TAMSCC] SM Killer


> what's funny is that pos would never get within 3 seconds of a good SM car.

I'm a bit insulted, but maybe he has a good reason, who knows.

AL you really are the most annoying person on this club.

Who the F*** wants your opinion. You ruin thread after thread after thread and your just a simple menace to the good people of this club.

You really don't understand that drag racing means dick to 95% of the people around here. Your "insights" into tuning, bashing vendors, and all around dyno queen mentality makes you worthy of...... well nothing.

In general, Grow up, stop whining, and go drive your ****ing car to whatever dyno is closest so you can get your woody and then please don't come back. We dont care!!!

Thanks for ruining another thread.

:mad:

Alfriedesq,

As you know, I am not really all that up on the “discussions” which have gone on between all you guys over the last year or so. However, I think I can make a few general observations.

1. Trey did not start this thread, nor did he build their autocross car for dyno bragging rights. Apart from anything else, he has the wrong brand dyno for use as a bragging tool!!

2. I think you will find the only reason Trey put the curves on their own site, not here, was to illustrate the maximum massflow capacity of our new turbos. Not to start this thread, nor to brag.

3. I find the $4,000.00 price for used STI long engines very interesting. How readily available are they? The car is only just a year old in Japan and is not really all that popular there, so sales volumes are low. Just interested, that’s all.

4. Please do not be so hard on the American tuners.
a) You have the worst gasoline in the developed world.
b) The cat before turbo configuration is unique to the MY01 – on. Not many companies in the world are much ahead of the U.S. tuners, on this specific configuration.

5. What have you done to your engine that leads you to believe you will see around 450 flywheel H.P. from it, irrespective of the turbo. It cannot be stock, as you describe.

6. Finally, I have to say, having gotten to know Trey Cobb quite well recently, the absolute last word used to describe him is hypocritical.

Dave
APS

Alfriedesq,

RE Trans life

I used H.P. as an indicator, simply because that is what people are accustomed to. In reality torque breaks transmission components not H.P.
The stock WRX makes around 260 Ft.lbs, flywheel. Just over 300 Ft.lbs, or 20% over stock is about the limit of the stock 5 speed. This equates to around 20 psi boost at peak torque, as opposed to the stock 14 psi.

There is far too little experience as yet as too real world limits on the six speed. However, looking at the internals, I would have to estimate over 400 Ft.lbs.

Dave
APS

Originally posted by WhiteRX
Well, I am coming here late on this, but to me this is not a WRX, it seems to me to be tantamount to putting a wrx wing on a McLaren F1 and calling it a WRX. I know that is a stretch, but really a WRX should at least use the same 2.0l engine, etc.

How much displacement does the WRX 22b have? Is that still a WRX? What's another 300cc of displacement on top of that? Oh! Right. That's what Cobb has. ;)

--jeff

dave,
i would like to know how you explain my car then? is it a freak of nature? 4 months of constant ABUSE on my car. Daily driven. Drag raced WEEKLY. Stock ENGINE AND TRANNY (clutch included). I think you are WAY OFF on your calculations and this is the type of misinformation that floats around. On a dynapack dyno at 23.9 psi on race gas, I put down 389 hp and 313 lbs. I have yet to change my clutch and probably made more then 100 passes at the track.
chad
evolution racing sports

Originally posted by WRSport
AL you really are the most annoying person on this club.

Who the F*** wants your opinion. You ruin thread after thread after thread and your just a simple menace to the good people of this club.

You really don't understand that drag racing means dick to 95% of the people around here. Your "insights" into tuning, bashing vendors, and all around dyno queen mentality makes you worthy of...... well nothing.

In general, Grow up, stop whining, and go drive your ****ing car to whatever dyno is closest so you can get your woody and then please don't come back. We dont care!!!

Thanks for ruining another thread.

:mad:

Exactly. No one cares to hear your opnion on ANY post outside of member car gallery. After all, you just bolt stuff onto your car and are talking down do people that actually build and tune.

Originally posted by evorace1
dave,
i would like to know how you explain my car then? is it a freak of nature? 4 months of constant ABUSE on my car. Daily driven. Drag raced WEEKLY. Stock ENGINE AND TRANNY (clutch included). I think you are WAY OFF on your calculations and this is the type of misinformation that floats around. On a dynapack dyno at 23.9 psi on race gas, I put down 389 hp and 313 lbs. I have yet to change my clutch and probably made more then 100 passes at the track.
chad
evolution racing sports

For every person like you, there are 1 or 2 that brake their tranny with less power (~280ish). I've seen it first hand. I can't really comment on the tq rating, but just observing (Also most people do not post about their tranny going).

Thanks for the inputs APS.

Funny how Al is getting all huffy! Guess his ego is hurt...
I agree with APS, if you want a real high hp car, you need to address the whole package.
The COBB car is for auto-x they have built a package to handle the widest and smoothest torque curve I have yet to see out of a Subaru turbo. A peaky car, not for me...

Lastly, this thread is really funny, but I guess jmott really ruffled some feathers... Too bad when old braggers turn bitchy when somebody challenges their world. too bad really. Being a good sport is a sure sign of a mature person!

In the end they are just cars...

Originally posted by WRSport
You really don't understand that drag racing means dick to 95% of the people around here
You obviously don't frequent these boards much do you? Or you may have problems comprehending what you read.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Torch

Originally posted by evorace1
I put down 389 hp and 313 lbs. I have yet to change my clutch and probably made more then 100 passes at the track.
chad
*yawn*

:rolleyes:

how can a car with a turbo that big NOT be laggy?

I didn't call it unusable dude!

I think we just have a difference of opinion as to what "laggy" is.


as for reliability, 4 months isn't that interesting.
my mustang lasted more than a year at 10psi, but it broke eventually =)

Originally posted by 122andy
I'm sure everything Cobb does is top notch. Im not the one
Reliability? 4 months of daily driven abuse, as much as 25 psi, still on stock clutch, no broken trans yet. Passes the test so far. Not bad on the "****ty" stock ECU.

I like the
"quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Ramey" <cramey@HOUSTON.RR.COM>
To: <TAMSCC@listserv.tamu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: [TAMSCC] SM Killer


> what's funny is that pos would never get within 3 seconds of a good SM car.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I've met Ramey and can't picture him saying that about anyone's car?

Besides, before Cobb put more power into it, big brakes on it and lots of contact patch, the car was about 2.5 sec. out of first at nationals!!

Oh-Well, Like SideWinder said, this thread has really stirred the pot.

I have already had someone tell me I can't drive and my car's a POS!!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Chris F

They're all just pi$$ed cause you have it and they don't!:(
Not trying to defend you or Cobb. You guys just built the car for the purpose YOU intended it to be used for! Nothing else.;)


Oh, and BTW if they didn't notice, you nor Cobb started any of your power posts. You have just had to come on the forum and explain the reasoning behind your choices.

Originally posted by evorace1
dave,
i would like to know how you explain my car then? is it a freak of nature? 4 months of constant ABUSE on my car. Daily driven. Drag raced WEEKLY. Stock ENGINE AND TRANNY (clutch included). I think you are WAY OFF on your calculations and this is the type of misinformation that floats around. On a dynapack dyno at 23.9 psi on race gas, I put down 389 hp and 313 lbs. I have yet to change my clutch and probably made more then 100 passes at the track.
chad
evolution racing sports


because its so laggy you don't have much torque
:lol:

JMott- I msut respectfulyl disagree on the Green being big..it is FAr from a big turbo actually...ever seen one up close?

If you want, i can take some pics for you of mine, as its the turbo I will be running soon on my GVR4.

As for lag, believe me tuning makes all teh difference in the world.....I ahve been in several cars with T51R's, full T04's (like my ZX has)..lag simply is not a condition turbos of this size must have..it all comes down to the engine management and the mapper

adam
Z-1

As for a WRX with a 2.5 being a WRX, who cares? Not I...the options are out there for people to do whatever they so choose.

Al - how you could compare a fully built, balanced motor with an STi, even a new age version, is a bit odd.....believe me, there is little comparison to be made....and we have done both built 2.5's and built EJ20's, and stock, used STi EJ20's.

Good numbers Trey - would love to see some 1.4 mile or standing mile numbers

well if anyone in an FP green equipped WRX is around Texas I'd love nothing more than to be proven wrong with a quick test drive =)


Originally posted by Z1 Performance
JMott- I msut respectfulyl disagree on the Green being big..it is FAr from a big turbo actually...ever seen one up close?

If you want, i can take some pics for you of mine, as its the turbo I will be running soon on my GVR4.

As for lag, believe me tuning makes all teh difference in the world.....I ahve been in several cars with T51R's, full T04's (like my ZX has)..lag simply is not a condition turbos of this size must have..it all comes down to the engine management and the mapper

adam
Z-1

As for a WRX with a 2.5 being a WRX, who cares? Not I...the options are out there for people to do whatever they so choose.

Al - how you could compare a fully built, balanced motor with an STi, even a new age version, is a bit odd.....believe me, there is little comparison to be made....and we have done both built 2.5's and built EJ20's, and stock, used STi EJ20's.

Good numbers Trey - would love to see some 1.4 mile or standing mile numbers

Pity on the Green turbo...Here's a turbo for ya.T66 BB..Gerry

Originally posted by jmott
well if anyone in an FP green equipped WRX is around Texas I'd love nothing more than to be proven wrong with a quick test drive =)


Only if the thread would have started earlier, you would have got your chance. I hear Chad went thru Houston on the way to San Antonio last week. He would have been more than happy, Im sure you would have enjoyed it.

On a side note, he says he floored it when he left Knoxville, and didnt build 20psi til he hit Mississippi!:eek:

Originally posted by Sidewinder


Lastly, this thread is really funny, but I guess jmott really ruffled some feathers... Too bad when old braggers turn bitchy when somebody challenges their world. too bad really. Being a good sport is a sure sign of a mature person!

No feathers ruffled, I was just trying to clear up the misconception that it was a lag hore. Its a shame that dyno chart looks the way it does, oh well. Looks like its ok to spread misinformation, but not ok to question vendors why it has taken so long to make 400hp no matter what methods are used.

Be Afraid!!!!!!

Be Very afraid...:)

Originally posted by 122andy
No feathers ruffled, I was just trying to clear up the misconception that it was a lag hore. Its a shame that dyno chart looks the way it does, oh well. Looks like its ok to spread misinformation, but not ok to question vendors why it has taken so long to make 400hp no matter what methods are used.

oh my god you are obnoxious =)

the cobb tuning car was near that power level a long time ago, they just didn't bother bragging about it.

what gear was the dyno run done in?

Evorace1,

dave,
i would like to know how you explain my car then? is it a freak of nature? 4 months of constant ABUSE on my car. Daily driven. Drag raced WEEKLY. Stock ENGINE AND TRANNY (clutch included). I think you are WAY OFF on your calculations and this is the type of misinformation that floats around. On a dynapack dyno at 23.9 psi on race gas, I put down 389 hp and 313 lbs. I have yet to change my clutch and probably made more then 100 passes at the track.
chad
evolution racing sports


Trans Failure:
J Mott has certainly come up with one possible explanation.
If you notice, I suggest a little over 300ft.lbs at the flywheel is the practical limit of the 5 speed. I suspect thes is where you are.

Look, we do not sell trans pieces. (well, not yet anyway!!)
I do not care particularly whether you believe me or not. At least our advice is relatively conservative. I am far more concerned about not encouraging guys to do things which may break their car, than anything else.

You may be just lucky (we have seen that here also), you may not have the power/torque you think you have )what is your weight/trap speed?)

In the end, you are not the first of only WRX drag racer in the world. I would venture to say there are currently 100’s more in Australia than the U.S.A. Just a function of how long the car has been in the market. If you choose to ignore such a vast experience group, that is your business.

Please just do not encourage anyone else to do it.

Dave
APS

Originally posted by 122andy
No feathers ruffled, I was just trying to clear up the misconception that it was a lag hore. Its a shame that dyno chart looks the way it does, oh well. Looks like its ok to spread misinformation, but not ok to question vendors why it has taken so long to make 400hp no matter what methods are used.

also, I'll add, that EVO's car clearly has some incredible 1/8th mile times, so its not like the lag is hurting him from a drag racing or stoplight racing standpoint.

from that point of view he has a BADASS car.

While I also enjoy such activities, I also have to worry about the entire WRX owning city of houston trying to kick my ass at each autocross, for which a more linear and predicatble powerband is better.

different strokes fo different folks

Originally posted by APS
There is far too little experience as yet as too real world limits on the six speed. However, looking at the internals, I would have to estimate over 400 Ft.lbs.

Dave
APS Thanks for the info ! much appreciated - (hope i dont see the inside of my 6 spd anytime soon !)

Interesting - I must admit that in my previous post when I said I thought the 2.5 wasn't a WRX anymore that I do consider a mustang a mustang after a stroker kit...guess the 2.5 wrx is still a wrx. A mustang is NOT a mustang after an engine swap (friend has a GT with a bored 454 to 480 CID runs high 8's in the 1/4 with a supercharger and nitrous - sick fast, but in my mind not a mustang anymore)

Originally posted by alfriedesq
Lets see this cone basher pull some 1/4 mile pasess and then we'll see if it really has the goods or if its only fast in a parking lot in 2nd gear[/quote ]

Man, you dont seem to understand, this ISNT a 1/4 mile car. Its an AUTO-X CAR!

[qoute]I find cobb hypocritical ! A while ago Cobb was posting before (on the other threads I had going about Turboxs and thier dyno claims - which were deleted ) - claiming that dynos are important for tuning purposes only and also claiming that it was silly to compare dyno results on different cars and different dynos - they said that it was not advisable or intelegent to compare dyno results in that manner

Another thing, if you havent noticed, COBB DID NOT post this thread. JMOTT did.


Frankly - and respectfully - i find it shocking and ridiculous that it has taken so called professional tuners in the WRX aftermarket community a WHOLE year to basically duplicate what the australians and japanese have been doing for years

Are they doing it with New age WRX's?

Some of you people are AMAZING! I mean seriously, do you read AT ALL? I am sure, that if COBB wanted to make lots o' power, they COULD!

Here, If you didnt catch me the first time, this car IS NOT a drag car. If it were, they wouldnt care a whole lot about a big flat torque curve.

I think COBB should just let it rip one pass to shut all the people that cant read, or understand that is isnt a drag car.

Originally posted by Torch

You obviously don't frequent these boards much do you? Or you may have problems comprehending what you read.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Torch
I disagree, I think the 1/4 mile FATF guys are more vocal, you don't see to many guys with full on Race set-ups out bragging about some 13 second pass when they have a race that weekend, and have to start in the middle of the pack. The 1/4 is a great way for people who want to be involved in Motorsports, without the hassle of learning how to drive in a field of cars and all that that entails, it's a great way to have a little fun and do a little bragging. I would have to say the SCCA Solo 2 or Solo driver is NOT going to be on here saying "my car runs 13 seconds" I'm a better driver then you... " "Your car sucks, you have NOS thats cheating, you used race gas thats cheating, you used the gravitational tidal effect from the stars and the moon to make that 11 sec pass, I have the star charts to prove it" type of BS.

COBB, great job on a sick car, thats really nice.

Alfriedesq, I have to say your posts have improved lately, your still a bit of a jerk,but don't give up yet , keep working on your interpersonal skills, you get a green star for improvement.

OK anyone making over 227 Hp and 217 Ft/Lb is NOT stock
therefore, at which point does altering your engines not make it
a WRX? IMHO I would say if you have block or heads from WRX then it is...
maybe we should start reffering to cars that have motor swaps hybrids like the Si kiddies do? Just my 44 Lira

Call Trey @ Cobb and ask him what their biggest priority is. From the things he's told the people in the TXIC at the Dyno Days etc., it's not all about the WRX to them. They are making products for the entire Subaru lineup. So to bash them (and any other tuners) and say it's taken too long for a tuner to get these numbers is stupid!:rolleyes: :monkey:

On another note, if you want to be competitive with rules, join the SCCA, there are plenty of rules.:) In racing the field is kept competitive with the rules that are enforced. On this board however, there are makeshift rules, which is fine for a casual sort of competition like a Dyno record or 1/4 mile time. If your serious about your
times then I suggest you start racing for real, thats worth working for and arguing about, I see a lot of energy that should be channeled in a more productive way.
Someone had the idea of categories for Dyno and 1/4 mile, at first I thought , oh please, how silly, but then it started to make sense. I know this is semi-OT but here's a few suggestions.

The first category could be called B Stock, which could allow turbo back, intake, MBC, EBC, but no chips or ECU replacements, save those for next class, which would still have stock internals , but would allow bigger injectors, fuel pump, turbos,ECU's and chips.
Then next class could be with replaced internals heads, block, cams etc.
(You could have the grandaddy one though anything that started life as any type of Impreza and has a Subaru powerplant period, and have Best Dyno and Fastest 1/4.
Grouping mod types might help keep the power postings from having to argue about whether it's apples to apples or not, because that is a valid point.
Heres a personal tip for anyone who cares, if you have something you are proud of and you feel belittled by others accomplishments, don't feel badly, you can only do what you can do, if someone has bested your 1/4 time and used other means, then mentally you should process that internally and not shout out your insecurities to the world. This goes for any sort of interaction in life. We all contribute to the world in our own way and make it that much better for the effort. Take comfort in our similarities (WRX) and revel in the differences and diversity we have created out of something that shares a common bond, there is no wrong way to love and enjoy our cars.
(Edited for sapelling)
and Tpying)

http://boards.stratics.com/php-bin/shared/images/icons/popcorn.gif

GOOOOoooo Santa -err I mean- GOOOOoooooo Jesus!

Great numbers from Cobb, and I'm sure huge numbers will be coming from project 666. Hopefully they'll even take it out to the strip a couple times, maybe enter a few sportscompact drag races...Something like that would do wonders for the Suby community over here in North America...

Sidenote: Gerry, care to elaborate on that GC8 that looks like it's going to be seeing some serious drag duty...

Originally posted by WhiteRX
Well, I am coming here late on this, but to me this is not a WRX, it seems to me to be tantamount to putting a wrx wing on a McLaren F1 and calling it a WRX. I know that is a stretch, but really a WRX should at least use the same 2.0l engine, etc.

Ever heard of the 22B????:rolleyes:

http://pages.prodigy.net/alahoy/IAS/day1/02-kairawrx.jpg

http://reverendsgarage.net/pictures/tommykaira_wrx/images/tommykaira_wrx_04.jpg

http://reverendsgarage.net/pictures/tommykaira_wrx/images/tommykaira_wrx_09.jpg

I suppose they should not called it a WRX...

It doesnt matter what motor you put in it, its still a WRX. Doesnt matter what driveline, either. WRX is the CAR, not the driveline, operating system, or engine.

Lets say when the LS1s Vettes came out, a reputable Chevy speed shop immediately yanked the LS-1, put in a 1500hp old school 350, and went and ran 8s with it. In doing so, they also changed the whole driveline. Its still going to be the "Fastest C-5 Vette", but you are going to run into the very same argument. There are going to be customers out there who want to ultimately tweak the motor, driveline, and transmission that the car comes with. Its fine and dandy if that vendor wants to do what they did, but you kind of abandon the average Joe who wants to make big power with the kick ass LS-1 motor he already has? Most guys dont want to do motor swaps unless you are talking aout SERIOUS benefits in power, not just 30 or 40 more HP. I think that a WRX 2.0 is an awesome motor, and does just fine with the right setup, that has been proven. It just seems to me the vendors arent really providing killer power setups for the guys who want POWER. Most of the fast drag race guys are vendor-independent, or have turned to nitorus to make the car fast (no, Im not saying that is bad, either). Theres nothing wrong with trying to nudge guys capable of providing power to the masses into doing it. After all, you dont want a bunch of obnoxious(according to jmutt) DSM owners running circles around you, do you?:D

Originally posted by dazz1


Ever heard of the 22B????:rolleyes:

http://pages.prodigy.net/alahoy/IAS/day1/02-kairawrx.jpg

http://reverendsgarage.net/pictures/tommykaira_wrx/images/tommykaira_wrx_04.jpg

http://reverendsgarage.net/pictures/tommykaira_wrx/images/tommykaira_wrx_09.jpg

I suppose they should not called it a WRX...

That car may have a 2.2l engine in it, but it's not a 22B ;)

http://home.no.net/impreza/images/front.jpg

http://www.japatrans.com/22bback.jpg

It's not a 22b engine either. I'd guess TK have stroked it.

I'm just wondering, If you had a 22b, and dropped a 2.5lt in, what would it be then ? 25b ?

If you guys were allowed to import the 22b, and someone like Al for example got one, then decided to drop a 2.5 in, I can just see him telling everyone that it ISN'T a 22b anymore.

Then it would just be an OLD AGE 3dr Impreza, with big bolt on wings, and a modified 2.5lt N/A engine......... :rolleyes:

Happy.

Originally posted by Impreza Rider


That car may have a 2.2l engine in it, but it's not a 22B ;)

http://home.no.net/impreza/images/front.jpg

http://www.japatrans.com/22bback.jpg
Correct, I just wanted to point out that the TK was another example of a none 2.0L WRX.:)

Originally posted by 122andy
masses into doing it. After all, you dont want a bunch of obnoxious(according to jmutt) DSM owners running circles around you, do you?:D

I didn't say DSM owners were obnoxious
I said YOU were obnoxious

=)

Originally posted by jmott


I didn't say DSM owners were obnoxious
I said YOU were obnoxious

=) They just arent wasting there time like me and posting on here. All the ones that have read what you were saying just laughed and shook there heads, so I guess there ARE quite a few obnoxious DSM owners. =)

Originally posted by 122andy
They just arent wasting there time like me and posting on here. All the ones that have read what you were saying just laughed and shook there heads, so I guess there ARE quite a few obnoxious DSM owners. =)

Just cuz you guys are used to lag and don't mind it, doesn't mean all people are like that.

for stoplight racers and drag racers, get a big turbo.

How many FP-green equipped DSM cars have much success autocrossing?

Laggy like this (http://www.exvitermini.com/movies/852r33.mpg)?

Originally posted by VetteVert
Sorry if I missed it elsewhere in this thread, but is that even a real dyno? Looks like that "calculation" software RiftsWRX was using....

VV I feel the same, not to doubt you jmott.

the calculation software a.k.a. Microsoft visual basic 6.0 with some IF THEN ELSE IS NUMERIC statements on it.

This graph is as close as I can get our dyno software to make it look like a "Dynojet" curve. The other curve is the standard graph generated for customers. The following is a bit more of the "raw data" I use when tuning.

You'll note how the raw data shows slightly different numbers, due to the averaging that occurs when determining peak power.

http://cobbtuning.com/images/cfleming4b.gif

It may not be exactly like a Dynojet graph but at least the torque and HP are on the same graph and on the same scale!

I really ramped down the power on the top end due to lack of fuel. New injectors are on the way so whenever we can take another break in our racing schedule with this car to make another "dyno queen" run, we'll do so.

Enjoy,
Trey
COBB Tuning

I....want...a....Skyline...GT-R. :eek:

That is all.

Originally posted by Cobb Tuning
This graph is as close as I can get our dyno software to make it look like a "Dynojet" curve. The other curve is the standard graph generated for customers. The following is a bit more of the "raw data" I use when tuning.

You'll note how the raw data shows slightly different numbers, due to the averaging that occurs when determining peak power.

It may not be exactly like a Dynojet graph but at least the torque and HP are on the same graph and on the same scale!

I really ramped down the power on the top end due to lack of fuel. New injectors are on the way so whenever we can take another break in our racing schedule with this car to make another "dyno queen" run, we'll do so.

Enjoy,
Trey
COBB Tuning

great post Trey.... I cant wait for Chris' car to be complete!!!

After all that's been accomplished with this car, i can only dream of what 666 will be like :eek:

I've heard about the 666 project pretty often... what exactly is it?

Originally posted by In2Deep
I've heard about the 666 project pretty often... what exactly is it?

http://www.projectcobb.com/666/

gerry - nice haridryer!

whose GC is that?

As for doing ti with old vs. new RWX's, it really make no difference...the motor hasn't changed in AGES all that significantly.

adam
Z-1 Performance
And i agree with Dave..the internals of the 6 speed box are T5 territory...mucho impressive coming from FHI (with a little help from Prosche I hear)

adam
Z-1 Performance
www.z1auto.com

I just got finished reading this whole thread and I have one question:

What is a WRX by definition? (I'm dead serious about this since it's being challenged and questioned). I could not find the answer for this via search function or the internet. It may seem like a silly question but it warrants an answer.

Well, I guess if there where any doubt that it was a WRX, you could look at the title and or registration.:D

Well, I guess if there where any doubt that it was a WRX, you could look at the title and or registration.:D

Originally posted by Kevin Thomas
I just got finished reading this whole thread and I have one question:

What is a WRX by definition? (I'm dead serious about this since it's being challenged and questioned). I could not find the answer for this via search function or the internet. It may seem like a silly question but it warrants an answer.

Well mine has a WRX emblem on the back and "conebasher" doesn't so I'd have to say that it isn't a WRX ;)

Personally I don't think you can really break it down into WRX or not. Its an Impreza. Say you're looking at Chevelles. If you're got two that are both running blown, huge displacement motors does it matter if one used to be a SS and the other didn't? I doubt that the Chevy guys would care (of course I could be completely wrong here, just guessing).

For a little more of a definition though there are local rally cars that I'm pretty sure started out as 2.5RS's but have WRX running gear and are listed as WRX's in the race registries and what not.

Oh, and congratulations to Cobb Tuning on the sweet car. No matter what it is. My only complaint is that its not a wagon :D

on the SOJ website all new age sedans are considered WRX, even the 2.0 NA, which is a WRX-NA. The 2.0 turbo is a WRX-NB, WRX STi... The wagons are sport-wagons.

Jay

Giamilton - It will be nice when we can get our Subarus into real SCCA races, indeed!

GoodFinder :)

2.0, 2.2, 2.5....it's still impressive and worthy of praise.


Ferg