For those of you who do autocross and track events (or any other kind of racing):

I have a (very new) photography business (in addition to a regular job), and I've just been named as "official photographer" for my club, Tarheel Sports Car Club. They are offering to get me photo passes to track events, and let me do photography as my work assignment during autoxes. I've already been shooting some (only 4 autoxes so far), and got several magazine-quality shots at the last event. I'm still learning what I want to shoot and how to shoot it, and what others would pay money to get a copy of. I'd appreciate any input you guys have on the following: what kind of shots you like the best (such as panning, head-on in a slalom, rear shot of car rounding a corner, etc.); prices you would be willing to pay for an excellent-quality 8X10; and if you or anybody you know has shot or bought these kinds of photos in the past, any experiences you would like to share.

I'm not expecting to make any profit on the autocross pics. I would have to sell prints to half the people at the event to actually cover my expenses for film, processing, travel to labs, reprints, etc. etc. etc. So, I'm just doing it for fun and to get people some good shots of their cars in action. I'm somebody who really values photography and the time I put into it, and I know there are a lot of people out there who don't care anything about it. I'm trying to put this into perspective for myself through your feedback. What I really see this as right now, is an opportunity to shoot for fun, to build a racing portfolio and to get event/commercial/other business through visibility.

Thanks for your time.

Kevin Allen


PS - I'm including a few examples so you can see what I'm talking about. These are digital camera shots of 8X10 or 8X12 glossy prints, so if the color, etc. is off, just ignore it.

this one's already sold

and another

Well, you could check out www.tracktimephotos.com and see what kind of shots they think are money-makers.

Nice shots, especially the first speed one. PMed you

This guy (http://www.io.com/~jpphoto/drp.html) does alot of SCCA and NASA events.

thanks for responses guys, and keep em coming!

What kind of camera do you use?

I think you'll very quickly (if you haven't already) find that a 35mm camera doesn't offer "top quality" pictures. In order to take many types of actions shots, you'll find that cloudy days require a high speed film which is grainy. A medium format SLR offers many advantages of a 35mm camera but uses 120 roll film (for example) which greatly reduces grain in enlargements. Particularly for films faster than 800 speed, anything larger than a 5x7 starts showing grain. For example, a 8x10 with 3200 speed film (required for an action shot on a dark, rainy day) is too grainy to be acceptable to most buyers.

I shoot black and white artistic landscapes. I find myself using a 50 speed film to acquire my best shots with my 35mm Pentax. I find the grain of even some 100 speed films to be too much for me to accept. And I only enlarge to 9x14. My next camera will be a Pentax 67. Its a 6cm x 7cm negative. A standard 35mm negative is 24mm x 36mm, or four times smaller (and 4 times more grainy.) Unfortunately, my budget doesn't allow me to purchase a $2000 camera (body only) and $1000 for a lens at this time.

Fortunately, commercial work has more lee-way because customers don't typically expect the type of quality that I demand in my work. Commercial customers focus more on composition of the shot than quality of the print.

Oh, and I prefer hard cornering action shots, high speed looks (like shot #1 - nice composition but needs work on tracking with the subject - ie subject slightly blurred) and good close-ups of the car in grid. Ooohhh, and ProSolo launches. I love those.

Andrew Howe
Pentax ZX-M permanently set to Manual Exposure

Ummm... shooting racing action shots with a medium format camera and medium format telephoto lens would be a real pain in the *******, and a lot more money than I want to put into this. I don't think I want to go there.

FYI - the first shot is supposed to be blurry. I'm panning with the car with exposure around f/10, 1/100 sec with a 200mm lens. My goal is to show how fast the car is going.

I would like to have a medium format camera (or a Canon D60) once business takes off, to add a little more sharpness to landscapes, family portraits, etc. but not right now. I think the next thing I'll buy if I really get into the racing photography is a 300mm f/2.8 - all I have now is a 28-70 and a 70-200... which fulfill my current needs quite nicely.

Thanks,

Kevin

Picture of me are always money makers...
http://www.auto-x.com/02event2pics/brennan.jpg

come to triad events and take some, great pictures by the way.
Evan

I'll be at the one on Sept. 8

great, hope to see you there, I'll be the impreza in DSP getting my ass handed to me!
Evan

Look forward to meeting you and your car. I'm currently running in STS in the Tarheel events, but I'm technically in STX due to larger brake rotors and STi engine & trans. mounts. Probably won't make any difference what class I run in, though.

See you there.

Originally posted by adhowe70
I think you'll very quickly (if you haven't already) find that a 35mm camera doesn't offer "top quality" pictures. In order to take many types of actions shots, you'll find that cloudy days require a high speed film which is grainy. A medium format SLR offers many advantages of a 35mm camera but uses 120 roll film (for example) which greatly reduces grain in enlargements. Particularly for films faster than 800 speed, anything larger than a 5x7 starts showing grain. For example, a 8x10 with 3200 speed film (required for an action shot on a dark, rainy day) is too grainy to be acceptable to most buyers.


First off coming from some one who does or used to do quite a bit of photography or landscape, racing, and sports, I'm going to have to say that at the level you're shooting at its very unrealistic to use large format negatives.

From the shooting that I have done in the past, I'm going to say that 35mm slide film is probably the best bet. I've got night shots of the Rolex 24 hour race that were done on slide film that look flawless and they are enlarged to 11x14. There is a lot more that goes into considering what type/speed film you're going to use and just because the negative is larger doesn't mean that the output will be good enough to make that big of a difference. i've experimented with everything from IFR slide film to 1000spd Royal Gold film. I'm going to say that while it is true that the higher you go with the spd of the film the more problems you might have with grain but most companies have done quite a bit to reduce the grain. other ways you can correct for this is the type of developing. If you can learn how to develop your own color negatives (which isn't hard) you can get very low grain 800spd negatives. As far as enlarging, the printer I use in at work (noritsu 2301) can do up to 12x18in optical prints, with the right paper (almost as important as the film) and the right exposure on the film you can get some damn good pictures.

I'm not saying largeformat might not give you a few betters results in the long run I'm just saying for your level its not realistic, even 120 film might be not what you're looking for.

as far as technique goes, go and invest in a good monopod, you'll be able to keep the camera steady enough over time to use the low speed shutter lengths, and if you can pan right you'll get great motion. the best pictures I've seen have all had the wheels moving the background moving but the car looks like its standing still. try to catch the yaw and the pitch of the car too, the more motions you can catch the better, you'll also be able to make things look as if they are going faster then the really are if you learn how to do it right. ANother thing, the more dirt you can pick up flying or smoke coming off of the tires or flames coming out of the exhaust or even lights at night auto-x's the better. just try and make sure you have the subject on a path that goes as close to the center of the picture as possible

Another important choice is using the right lenses. Depending on how far away you are, you might want to look into the bigger lenses. My father used to shoot pictures at the Redskins games, it get very very hot there during the games. Some manufatures have problems with their lenses warping from heat. Also figure out what type of material they use in the glass. one of the reasons why most photographers that you see at sports events use Canon Lenses because of the Glass they use in the L series lense(floride I believe). 9 times out of 10 when you see the guys with the huge grey lenses on the side lines they are using canon products. If you're looking for a long lense over 300mm DO NOT get a mirrored lense, sure they are lighter and smaller but the pictures look like crap. My largest lense is a 300mm but my father uses his 500mm quite a bit. another lense that we both have pretty much always attached to our bodies is the Canon 35-105, I don't know what it is about that lense buts its great.

Kepp in mind also that sometimes you won't always see exactally what you want to get on the track or it might be hard to position yourself where you want to be, there for take cropping into consideration when you're finally having your prints done. take it to a place that you know will care about your work. I've worked with so many professionals that know that the final step in the perfection of a picture is in the actual printing. This is were the grain and color and be somewhat corrected.

Brad
2 Canon EF's
1 Canon FED
4 Canon F-1's
1 Canon A-1

I am not an expert when it comes to photography, especially all this 35mm and SLR talk. I have, however, had some decent luck with medium quality digital cameras. I have a small Olympus C700-UZ. It's only 2.1 megapixel, but produces decent quality images, suitable for printing. The UZ stands for ultra zoom. It has a 10x optical zoom, which I have found invaluable when out on course. the zoom is the main reason I bought it. The 700 has since been replced by the 720-UZ, which has a 8x optical zoom, and 3.1 megapixel.

http://www.subrew.com/tmp/pic1.jpg
http://www.subrew.com/tmp/pic3.jpg
http://www.subrew.com/tmp/pic2.jpg
http://www.subrew.com/tmp/pic4.jpg

The nice part about cameras like the C700, is they have good manual controls. You can adjust for different conditions, change "shutter speed" etc. to get whatever effect you are after.

Besides all the camera equipment mumbo jumbo, what is most important is having a good eye for capturing cars. Understanding light, positioning yourself correctly etc. Your examples look like you understand those things well.

BTW, these are about 1/3 size images.

Good luck!

Chris H.
www.subrew.com

I have paid $35-40 for 11x14 and 16x20 photos (with full resolution computer file) at a couple of track events. To me, it's worth it at tracks as I probably won't be doing more than a few times at each track in my life. But I wouldn't pay that money at my local auto-x.

Having said that, I think the following makes great pictures:

1. Action - Definitely pan the car, and shot with a moderate shutter speed to blut the background.

2. Angle - I like to see the car at an angle. Head on is pretty boring. But I guess that depends on the car too. The WRX isn't the nicest to look at from the front. :)

3. Cornering - This is the most important. A car going at a straight line is absolutely boring. Please only shoot me when I'm cornering, even better if you can get an inside wheel lifting.

4. Background - Find a location where the background gives the person an idea where he is, so that he can't take a look at say, "I was racing at xxx, and there was that corner..."

As for formats, I think 35mm is more than enough for 11x14 prints. And you are panning an action, not producing a portrait or landscape. But most commercial people are shooting digital now, with Nikon or Canon SLRs at 4-5 or more megapixels. That way they can print them on premise.

Here are the two that I bought. I resized and compressed them to bring the size down, so just concentrate on the shooting/framing, not quality. I know you're doing auto-x, but I think most of the same criteria still apply.

1. This is the climbing esses at Watkins Glen. The suspension is partially loaded, but what makes this a good shot is the background. You see the track climbing, and those billboards and blue guardrails that tells you immediately this is Watkins Glen.

http://home.earthlink.net/~rkkwan/photos/wrx/glen1.jpg

2. Second one is Turn 4 at VIRginia International. The background doesn't really tell you where you are, but here the panning/action is great. Gives you a great sense of motion. Also the suspension is totally loaded, making the shot very very exciting.

-Ray

http://home.earthlink.net/~rkkwan/photos/wrx/vir.jpg

I also do the same sort of thing www.4wheelphotos.com but as of now don't really have the equipment. I just use the website to show the photos and if someone likes the photo of them or their favorite car they are able to buy it. Not really a business but kind of a service since I will never come close to turning a profit off of it.

My experiences with film are to always use Fuji 400 or if the setting calls for it 800. 800 starts to get grainy though.

Chris
www.4wheelphotos.com

www.racerpix.com

yea, these guys are right about using a medium format for shooting sports stuff. it's too bulky. hard to move around, hard to focus. too expensive to process and to get prints. takes too long. and i have made 8x12s from Fuji Press 1600. if you get your exposure right, your prints won't be grainy. hey, sharp prints aren't always what i want.

fred, you definetly gotta get a 300 or 400 2.8. it's expensive, but you gonna need it if you can't get close to the action. i'm not a good photographer, but even if you are panning, you gotta go wide open. f/10 isn't gonna be good. i try to shoot at 2.8 as often as i can. you can get away with slower film with wide open. what body are you using? i have made prints for a local SCCA guy in the SF region before. most of the shots are very close crop of the person's car before a corner. didn't see much of the cars in the corner though. they were all shot at wide open. panning would be a good idea too. get a monopod for the time being.

STiTuner: how you like that noritsu 2301? i used to use it, but that POS always broke down on me. get a lot of paper jams? i work with another lab now, and i'm enjoying the Agfa D-Lab.3. amazing machine. prints from digital files are amazing.

jz

http://forums.i-club.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=2270269