I was just wondering if turboxs' UTEC is perhaps too hardcore for the average user.

Is it?

My future mods will consist of Vishnu Stage 0, turbo back exhaust, SBC-ID, and that's pretty much it.

I know it can do so many things, but for the average user, would $1000 be better spent elsewhere?

Anyone?

All I want to do is shave a second off my 0-60 times and perhaps run in the low to mid 12's while making my car funner and quicker to drive.

Is a UTEC overkill for someone like me?

nah you can look at it as simply a matter of convenience, too. there are 5 user selectable maps... say you have a stage 2 set-up right now and then you upgrade to a stage 4... flick a switch and you have the stage 4 map. no more sending it back to turboXS, paying shipping and handling - back and forth, waiting all that time, etc. etc. and there is a place to plug in a computer on it and you can download a new map, right onto the unichip! you can turn off the CEL's!! (BIG PLUS) its not any harder to use, it simply has more options... and if you wanna tune it yourself, you can do that too. i suppose if you say, "ok, i want a stage 4 kit and I have $4000 to spend right now and I will be done modding the engine" then in that case, a unichip programmed for stage 4 would be perfect! if you dont have that kinda money off the bat, then maybe you want to save up and get the turbo back and unichip... then save up for more, then save up and get more... in that case, the convenience factor would warrant getting the UTEC.

For the price it's selling at, it can do a lot for the money. It will be one of the key components that will help you achieve your goal.

However, it really sounds like the UTEC user enabled functions maybe a bit much for you. Your better off, just upping your current Stage 0 to a higher stage as your mods increase on your car.

Just because the UTEC is adjustable doesn`t mean you HAVE to adjust it.

The nice thing about the UTEC over the unichip is that it is consistent.

Bill

Originally posted by gossamer_monster
Just because the UTEC is adjustable doesn`t mean you HAVE to adjust it.

The nice thing about the UTEC over the unichip is that it is consistent.

Bill

What do you mean that it's consistent?

Originally posted by xfactor834


What do you mean that it's consistent?

Perhaps you need to read the other thread then.... :rolleyes:

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

I think that it takes over the stock ECU functions completelly. It does not intercept and modify like the Unichip. That way you are not dependent on how the stock ECU reacts.

Also it can become a stand alone via updated software. I think for $1000 is a very nice alternative.

By the way to get into the low to mid 12's you will need a stage 4 in TXS or a Vishnu stage II. Unichip will be fine with either but a more complete solution will be a stand alone and some professional tuning(dyno time).

Cheers

Nick

Originally posted by RiftsWRX


Perhaps you need to read the other thread then.... :rolleyes:

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

lol, ya, its been gone over a few times in previous threads about the UTEC.

You won`t get the variations you would see with the unichip ie, timing all over the place and cold weather issues.

Bill

The UTEC would be nice for you.

I would say if your just gonna be stage zero, exhaust, and boost controller just stick with the unichip.

I mean if your absolutely sure thats all your gonna do to the car (which is rare for most enthusiast), then i would suggest the unichip and do something with the extra cash.

but if your going for some larger power (injectors, pump, turbo upgrade, etc) then by all means go for the UTEC.

All the people in this thread so far have good suggestions of why you should get it. (conveiniece, stability, user programmability, map switching, etc).

but if your really, really not gonna get that deep then keep it simple.

good luck

GDA

One thing that should be considered is that used unichips are going for less than half the price of a utec. If you don't need the user adjustability feature of the utec, the unichip might be a better buy. Remember that you can buy a used unichip (with harness and ABC) and other components (say a downpipe or alternatively an uppipe, GFB pulleys and Samco hoses) for less than the price of a utec. Or one could just buy the used unichip and have more than $500 in you pocket. If you are going to get all of these components anyway and money isn't a concern, get the utec.

Thanks for the advice guys...

Rifts...I'm reading it...don't worry...

Bigger turbo?

You'll get more bang for the buck running a larger turbo on stock computer and fuel.

Actually, you'll find that very few people are running low 12's without NO2. It's harder than you think.

Kevin

I REALLY want stage IV, but my problem is since gas here is only 91 Octane (I'm not going to mess with toulene) I want to beef up my pistons. I found a forged pison kit that also strokes out to 2.2 liters for only $2500.

What I don't know is if I will be able to get the UTEC setup for my 2.2L and stage IV without going dangerously lean. I have no prior ECU type experiance.

Does anyone know if it seems likely that I will be able to learn the UTEC before I blow up my engine?

Thanks.

Originally posted by Red Rocket
Bigger turbo?

You'll get more bang for the buck running a larger turbo on stock computer and fuel.

Actually, you'll find that very few people are running low 12's without NO2. It's harder than you think.

Kevin

Actually, you don't really find that many people running in the 12s (high or low) without N2O. The ones that are more or less are 12.8s or higher (generally speaking).

A 12 second street car is FAST. I think because we read here on I-Club about 11 second runs (with N2O) and a couple of people who have pulled 12.3-12.5 without N2O that we loose track of "real" times and expect each of our cars to be able to do this with a couple of mods :)

We've had a brutal summer heat wise and I think the majority of the 1/4 mile track times show this. Now that it's finally starting to get cooler (at least here on the east coast) we'll probably start seeing better track times and maybe a few more times in the 12s.

Carlo

Ok Jorge,

As you were a beta tester for the UTEC, I have a question about consitency (and I read the other thread, well at least the first 11 pages). You say it is more consistent, with the timing, etc. But is that more consistent with no user programming? Right out of the box just more consistent than a Unichip? And if so, why can't the Unichip have the same UTEC program and be more consistent. I wonder this as I have TXS Stage 2 and thinking about going to Stage 4, but staying with my Unichip, from a price perspective, and if the new Unichip program is consistent, why spend the extra if I won't use the features (although I like the idea of switching programs, but know I will not change any paramteres on my own). I wonder mostly as I have the Apex-i rev/speed meter and consistently see the hp measure between 189 and 216, most consistently at 204-207 range in second gear. And even with seat of pants, you can tell a big difference in the 25 hp swing. I would go with the UTEC if the consistency came without me having to change the program, and if that same consistency is not available with a re-mapped Unichip. I present these questions to you as you seem to have a good deal of knowledge on the product, although it might be better directed at TXS, but if you are in the know, I would love to hear your thoughts

Originally posted by xfactor834
My future mods will consist of Vishnu Stage 0, turbo back exhaust, SBC-ID, and that's pretty much it.

I know it can do so many things would $1000 be better spent elsewhere?


wouldn't blow the $$ on the SBC-ID when the UTEC can control boost...

Originally posted by WhiteRX
Ok Jorge,

As you were a beta tester for the UTEC, I have a question about consitency (and I read the other thread, well at least the first 11 pages). You say it is more consistent, with the timing, etc. But is that more consistent with no user programming? Right out of the box just more consistent than a Unichip? And if so, why can't the Unichip have the same UTEC program and be more consistent. I wonder this as I have TXS Stage 2 and thinking about going to Stage 4, but staying with my Unichip, from a price perspective, and if the new Unichip program is consistent, why spend the extra if I won't use the features (although I like the idea of switching programs, but know I will not change any paramteres on my own). I wonder mostly as I have the Apex-i rev/speed meter and consistently see the hp measure between 189 and 216, most consistently at 204-207 range in second gear. And even with seat of pants, you can tell a big difference in the 25 hp swing. I would go with the UTEC if the consistency came without me having to change the program, and if that same consistency is not available with a re-mapped Unichip. I present these questions to you as you seem to have a good deal of knowledge on the product, although it might be better directed at TXS, but if you are in the know, I would love to hear your thoughts

The simple answer to your question is this...

Unichip = OFFSET interceptor

UTEC = STATIC timing control

So... even if you never touched the UTEC.. it will deliver the programmed timing EACH AND EVERY TIME.... where the unichip is up to the gross timing value of the computer AT THAT TIME...

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

While we're on the subject of consistency, and since Jorge is in on this thread, I'm reposting a question I asked in the 'UTEC INFO' thread that never got answered. And it seems to be related to this thread as well, so hopefully it doesn't look like I'm hijacking. . .

In reference to the WRX factory ECU being, well, flaky when it comes to timing, what is the leading theory on why this is the case? ECU timing fluctuation was given as the reason why Unichip tuning has been somewhat difficult and may not give optimal results in all situations, and the reason why the UTEC will completely take care of this issue (since it can have complete control of timing rather than adjusting the factory ECU timing curve).

My question is, why does the factory ECU do what it does (ie. advance and retard timing in a seemingly random fashion)? Is it overly sensitive? Is it trying to reduce emissions? Why is the extra latitude programmed in? A friend made the point that if the factory ECU DOES fluctuate like it does, there must be a reason for it. And if you’re going to be carving your own timing curve with the UTEC that will be very consistent and unchangable by the factory ECU, is that going to create problems? I don’t think it will, and I think it should help the engine run better; but the question was asked and I didn’t have an answer . . .

Originally posted by wrxsvt
While we're on the subject of consistency, and since Jorge is in on this thread, I'm reposting a question I asked in the 'UTEC INFO' thread that never got answered. And it seems to be related to this thread as well, so hopefully it doesn't look like I'm hijacking. . .

In reference to the WRX factory ECU being, well, flaky when it comes to timing, what is the leading theory on why this is the case? ECU timing fluctuation was given as the reason why Unichip tuning has been somewhat difficult and may not give optimal results in all situations, and the reason why the UTEC will completely take care of this issue (since it can have complete control of timing rather than adjusting the factory ECU timing curve).

My question is, why does the factory ECU do what it does (ie. advance and retard timing in a seemingly random fashion)? Is it overly sensitive? Is it trying to reduce emissions? Why is the extra latitude programmed in? A friend made the point that if the factory ECU DOES fluctuate like it does, there must be a reason for it. And if you’re going to be carving your own timing curve with the UTEC that will be very consistent and unchangable by the factory ECU, is that going to create problems? I don’t think it will, and I think it should help the engine run better; but the question was asked and I didn’t have an answer . . .

Overly sensative is hardly the case... but again (in pure speculation) it's overly protective...

But seeing how no one here is a denso engineer responsable for the beast.... your guess is as good as mine.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

Thank you for your input Jorge.

The post by WRXSVT leads me to another question with static timing control: will that mean the UTEC is not as safe as the Unichip? I mean, if the factory ECU detects knock or some other danger to the engine and pulls timing, the Unichip would go along with that. But now the UTEC will not let it and that seems like extra danger to your engine. It might be the case that the ECU is overly protective anyway, and this margin of safety is redundant/not needed, but how comfortable is TXS with that?

Let me tell you, I would love to be able to get in my WRX and get the 210+-3 or so from my rev/speed meter on a consistent basis and not the 205+-20 I have now. And that without extra risk above a Unichip at the same boost, etc would be great and would justify my $750 expense

Originally posted by WhiteRX
Thank you for your input Jorge.

The post by WRXSVT leads me to another question with static timing control: will that mean the UTEC is not as safe as the Unichip? I mean, if the factory ECU detects knock or some other danger to the engine and pulls timing, the Unichip would go along with that. But now the UTEC will not let it and that seems like extra danger to your engine. It might be the case that the ECU is overly protective anyway, and this margin of safety is redundant/not needed, but how comfortable is TXS with that?

Let me tell you, I would love to be able to get in my WRX and get the 210+-3 or so from my rev/speed meter on a consistent basis and not the 205+-20 I have now. And that without extra risk above a Unichip at the same boost, etc would be great and would justify my $750 expense

This is a great point.

Furthermore, would it be a good idea to mix Vishnu's kits with the UTEC, or should I now start thinking the Turbo XS route if I'm getting a UTEC?

From TXS:

"Knock control - automatically retards timing when the knock is detected safeguarding against engine damage"

I think people are confusing CONSISTENT timing with an ignorant embedded system that'll do its thing no matter what's going on - which frankly is pointless in something as variable as a car.

If anything - the UTEC is just as, if not better and detecting knock and dealing with it than the factory ECU. Pete did mention they tuned it to respond by running 30+ degrees of advance under different loads to "train" it into recognising the pattern of detonation (something he didn't recommend other people did *heheh*).

Then again - all I have to go on is Jorge and TXS's info so far - Jorge - chime in :D

Cheers

Rich

All this ECU discussion is confusing. I plan to mod my car. In the end I want as much 'usable' HP as I can get that doesn't make my car a grenade. Note that I don't plan to drag race, rally or autocross. I don't want to only have power above say 5000 RPM with a huge turbo, cams dialed in for high RPM output. What I do want is as much usable street HP as I can enjoy without having to worry about destroying the engine. Note that if I could get a tractable 600HP out of this engine I would do it unless it cost a fortune (tractable is the operable word here). I realize that this isn't realistic and I think its sort of missing the point to say you want xxx HP.

For this, I am willing to (and eventually expect to) replace the exhaust system (including the Turbo if it brings the desired results). Replace the ECU with whatever works best for me. Add a solid set of guages that let me keep up with whats going on (EGT, boost and A/F perhaps). And have a tuner set the rig up for me. If for me a motec or TecIII or Autronic or UTEC or UNICHIP is best then that's what I want. But if I don't need something (because it provides no value) then I don't want it. Note that the last time I went throught this exercise, I spent about 15K on the engine/turbo setup over a year or more. Started by identifying all the right parts and vendors, blue-printing and balancing the engine and then doing all assembly, installation myself. During this process I had to weed out all sorts of misleading info. So I'm willing to pay the price and take the time to reach my goals.

There is a lot of discussion on this forum with varying points of view especially about ECUs. What you guys need to do is have an independent body review each of the various ECUs and point out there advantages and disadvantages. I know this wont happen but one can always wish for things... I would love to see a side by side comparison of each of the ECU solutions...