Well, folks it's Christmas time. Santa Subaru is going to give us a present this year. I think, and hope, the U.S. STI will be a trend setter and be a significantly better performer than the STI the rest of the world is getting, including Japan. My question is this---has there ever been a manufacturer, European or Japanese, that has released a new model and made the U.S. version superior to the rest of the world, including the home country? I can't think of any. So, if Subaru comes through for us, would this be a first?

IIRC, somebody mentioned the Toyota Supra Twin Turbo as an example of that, and somebody else came up with one or two others. And I echo your sentiments.

Jim

The 300ZX TT is a good example. The US had 300 HP, and the JDM Fairlady had 287. But then again, they had the skyline.

The original Datsun 240Z was built for the US Market only, and then trickled to the rest of the world a year and 1/2 later.

The Toyota Twin Turbo Supra rated at 320hp was actually the same as the JDM supra. The 280ps or 276hp rating is more a joke over there than anything and very few JDM performance vehicles produce exactly 276, and some are less. We have gotten some cars that are at least the same, but I dont know about "better".

Peace

aha, gotchya ;)

Jim

I think we should try and reverse engineer Subaru's reasons for bringing the STi here.

It is (I presume) a "halo car" to sell more of the performance model Subarus (e.g. WRXs, upcoming cars, B4? turbos on other models?)

If I were them, I'd release as few as economically possible (with certification costs I bet their break even point is >= 1000 units but I have not done the napkin math)

It would also make sense to come out guns blazing. In the rest of the world, the EVO is considered (and is certainly priced) as a higher performance car than the WRX (even if the STi handles better and has a better gearbox). If this view was to prevail in the US, that would be a Bad Thing. I assume Subaru wants the US STi to be much better than the US EVO. (not just in terms of power, but diffs/gearbox etc.)

I am still surprised they just didn't release something here like the Prodrive Style version of the current bug-eye STi (or a 22B!)

Glenn

PS even though according to Subaru the US WRX has more power, that balance has been redressed with the facelifted models overseas (ROW: Australia, Europe).

PPS why is it certain we are not getting the twin scroll turbo? One would have assumed it would help with emissions....

PPPS the big issue for the US market is octane... whatever STi we get it has to be able to handle 91-92 R+M/2. After the STi piston failures in Australia, they are not going to make that mistake again.

Subaru is being way too conservative and now the other Japanese manufacturers are overtaking Subaru.

First, they had the nice looking 2.5RS for 3 or 4 years before deciding to bring out a weakened WRX. That was way too long.

If not for the Evo8, 350Z, RX8, I think Subaru would have taken quite a few more years before deciding on the STi. As it is now, Subaru still wants to scale back on the STi.

If they had brought everything over earlier, Subaru would've had the market sewn up.


Yes, i am also very surprised that there is no "Prodrive" version for the WRX. THe Prodrive version makes the bug eyes liveable :)
I would certainly have bought a Prodrive styled WRX.

btw, the Evo8 will come with a twin-scroll turbo, as they have been for the past few iterations. If MItsu can do it, I dont see why Subaru cant.

If and only if Subaru can deliver both the twin scroll turbo w/ related engine improvements and DCCD on the US STi, then they will have my business instead of Mitsu. :)

I don't think the US STi will be the best in the world, but it could be pretty close. I sure would love to see that 8000 rpm redline that JDM models have...

You know, with the EVO coming out so strong at 271 hp/273 ft. torque (probably a 5 sec/150mph car) it is going to take quite a bit to put some distance between that car and the U.S. STI. That's why I am thinking Subaru is planning something special--perhaps a 2.5 WITH the twin-scroll, hopefully with DCCD as an option. Like 310-320hp, even with our gas, emissions, and perhaps slightly lower compression ratio. A motor with 25% more displacement just would change the whole performance parameter. This would be an STI worth waiting and getting in line for, and give an enormous boost to Subaru's reputation. Can you imagine the press reaction to such a car, let alone the reaction in the rest of the world?

Since it got brought up I am not really hijacking the thread, but here is some reason to believe we will have the DCCD as a first year option. Saturn just released the Vue or View or whatever recently. One of my friends that for some reason sold his outback, and bought one of these (people are strange to quote Morrison), guess what option the salesman told him he HAD TO HAVE. Thats right A DCCD that was variable between 80-20 percent FR and vice versa. Cost according to the friend was around 3G's but since he isnt hardcore he didnt see why he needed it. Now we talked in another thread about what GM owns or has it fingers in and FHI came up. Now I am purely hunching it here, but if Saturn has a DCCD, and is a GM product, why wouldnt we get it?

Peace

what Saturn does on their SUV-ette VUE has absolutely nothing to do with what FHI (who GM owns a non-controlling 21% of) will decide to offer on the STi.

that's like saying we can assume that because Daimler-Chrylser (who owns a controlling interest in Mitsubishi) will influence Mitsu to include stability controls which cannot be turned off on the Evo, since that's what they do on Mercedes Benzes.

go back to the book depository for another conspriracy theory Oliver Stone :-)




Ben
not worried about the spec of the STi one bit.

What Saturn does actually has alot to do with what happens here. Its called the Saturn Philosophy of a better product. Saturn believes very strongly in "borrowing". Where they have access they "borrow" technology. 21% is enough to have access to technology and GM wont shrink back from using it. For example look at there Baja 1000 buggy-esque concept (forgot the name but its the blue roadster). It has a complete Subaru drivetrain and suspension. My comment was purely to point out that the technology is being used on american vehicles so there is a need for the importation of replacement parts. Its called Business 101. Calm down and be a little less reactionary M Richard. Last I checked this was a forum of rumors.

Peace

I really don't see where the rumors keep coming from about the 2.5 STi motor. Unlike Mitsubishi, Subaru is still very serious about competing in the World Rally Championships. And the rules for that racing league specify that 4-wheel drive cars must have engines no larger than 2.0 litres. So that's what Subaru will stick with, unless they decide rallying isn't worth it anymore, which would be a HUGE marketing mistake for their world-wide sales! I know people in the UK take that stuff seriously!

For what my opinion's worth, I think the US STi we'll see will have at least 275 hp, the dual scroll turbo, and a spiffy body kit. But I'm undecided on the DCCD. They were planning on competing with the Evo, but Mitsubishi isn't planning on putting Active Center Differentials on the US Evo for it's release. So although putting DCCD on the US STi would be nice, and one more thing to set it apart from the crowd, it wouldn't be strictly necessary to put it into competition with the Evo, at least in most Americans minds.

Originally posted by Oldnslow
I think, and hope, the U.S. STI will be a trend setter and be a significantly better performer than the STI the rest of the world is getting, including Japan.
I find that highly doubtful, due to emissions regulations, among other things, and wasn't aware there was that much speculation going on about the upcoming STi. Every spec I've seen puts it at a 2.0L with 261 HP and 253 ft-lbs torque, down from 276/275 in the Japan model or 265/285 in the UK. There's been a few links recently at http://www.scoobytuner.com/sti-america.htm and http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/9_11_sub.htm, and Edmunds has an updated picture (still with the bug eyes that will supposedly be gone, though), and specs at http://www.edmunds.com/future/2004/subaru/imprezawrxsti/4drsedan/specs.html. Anything can change, of course.

Well, it is not going to be the fastest WRX STI ever produced. The 2002 WRX STI s202 has 320HP and only weighs about 2600 to 2700 pounds. That makes it among the fastest production 4 door sedans ever made by any car manufacturer, if not the fastest. I remember reading a article in a car magazine where they interviewed a high level Subaru executive and he commented that the s202 had a 0 to 60 close to 4.3 to 4.4 seconds.

The comments were made by Subaru STI President Masaru Katsurada. And the article is on pages 52 and 53 of the October 2002 Road and Track magazine.

Which could put a hurten on one of these babies:
BMW M5 4.8 sec (0 to 60)
Audi RS6 4.3 sec
Jaguar S-Type R 5.7 sec
MB E55 AMG 5.0 sec

(numbers from "Automobile" magazine DEC 2002)

Originally posted by Cabal

I find that highly doubtful, due to emissions regulations, among other things, and wasn't aware there was that much speculation going on about the upcoming STi. Every spec I've seen puts it at a 2.0L with 261 HP and 253 ft-lbs torque, down from 276/275 in the Japan model or 265/285 in the UK.

The problem with all that information is that it was based on the older bug-eye style UK STi. The STi that is coming to the states (and the UK) is going to be of the newer body style, and probably the newer engine. Power figures are then completely up in the air. The DCCD system has been seen in testing in Alaska - which also makes it a possibility as an option in the States.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen

Well the facelifted verison of the STi will get a twin scroll turbo with AVCS, but that's the JDM edition. As for the Prodrive edition, you can simply go and buy the actually Prodrive body kit, since Prodrive really just did the aerodynamic part of the car. I have a gut feeling that North American STi will not be as powerful as the other ones since emission stardards are different and they may have a hard time justiflying, money wise, a reason to re-tune the engine for US emission stardards while retaining the same power. As others have said before, the gasolin here is crap, it got way too much sulfur here and most people aren't used to paying higher prices for cleaner, better fuel (you have to wait until 2006 when the US government force them to make fuel with reduce sulfur). Without this type of fuel, it's hard to make that kind of power while meeting standards in stock trim. It can be done but Subaru may think it's not worth their money to do so since they have to move some of the R&D cost to the price and pricing the car too high will only limit the number of units they can sell (I'm sure there are people insane enough to pay that kind of prices).

People who buy the cars below dont really care for a Subaru :)
Besides, these cars dont have that huge obnoxious hood scoop on the new STi.

Really, Subaru should move that TMIC to be a FMIC and get rid of that drag-inducing hood scoop . . . and put some hood vents on it.
Looks more aggressive with hoodvents and without that silly looking hood scoop.
Hmm . . . I think i just described the Evo . . .




Originally posted by daytontp

Which could put a hurten on one of these babies:
BMW M5 4.8 sec (0 to 60)
Audi RS6 4.3 sec
Jaguar S-Type R 5.7 sec
MB E55 AMG 5.0 sec

Originally posted by RA29
People who buy the cars below dont really care for a Subaru :)
Besides, these cars dont have that huge obnoxious hood scoop on the new STi.

Really, Subaru should move that TMIC to be a FMIC and get rid of that drag-inducing hood scoop . . . and put some hood vents on it.
Looks more aggressive with hoodvents and without that silly looking hood scoop.
Hmm . . . I think i just described the Evo . . .


i think the aerodynamics of the car itself prevent the drag induced from the scoop from really having much of an effect on the car. and the scoop is a subaru trademark. i'm not a huge fan of the design of the new scoop, though. i think a more conservative gc scoop would look better, slightly updated.

~~Quentin

You can always get a Greddy (sp?) or a MRT FMIC and trade your hood with a RS owner assuming it will fit.

First, for the cross-eyed facelift STi, there is no Prodrive kit as Prodrive helped with the styling. Prodrive Style was only for the bug-eye STi.

And the rules for that racing league specify that 4-wheel drive cars must have engines no larger than 2.0 litres. So that's what Subaru will stick with, unless they decide rallying isn't worth it anymore, which would be a HUGE marketing mistake for their world-wide sales! I know people in the UK take that stuff seriously!

This has been debunked. The WR cars engines are based on an engine package that the manufacturers homologate at the beginning of the year. And the Group N car is based on the Japanese models. So there is no reason the US STi or WRX has to be any given capacity.

Glenn

Originally posted by Hurrikain
What Saturn does actually has alot to do with what happens here. Its called the Saturn Philosophy of a better product. Saturn believes very strongly in "borrowing". Where they have access they "borrow" technology. My comment was purely to point out that the technology is being used on american vehicles so there is a need for the importation of replacement parts. Its called Business 101. Calm down and be a little less reactionary M Richard. Last I checked this was a forum of rumors.
Peace

sorry, but no matter how great Saturn's philosophy might be, there is no way they're going to use a part which is designed for a manual transmission ~300hp/ft-lb AWD car for use in their automatic trans, 180hp/195ft-lb SUV. it would be like specifying the STi 6-speed for a 1.8l Impreza - a complete waste of money, let alone whether the average driver of a Saturn "SUV" would ever be able to understand the advantage such a dif might provide to them, let alone pay extra for it.

btw, the Vue doesn't have anything like the Subaru AWD system - it only provides torque to the rear wheels when the fronts slip, so would not be designed to use something like the STi' s DCCD, since it starts from a pre-determined driver controlled split F/R, then allows torque transfer to slipping wheels as needed.

here's a review of the Vue, where the system is mentioned (6th paragraph) :
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2114.shtml

just because the technology is being imported to the US doesn't mean that it will be available on the STi. it will be on the STi if FHI decides that they want to provide the performance advantages of DCCD to the US market & whether SoA agrees that the customers here will value it sufficiently for it to make economic sense to include it either as standard or optional.

I'm all for discussion of rumors, but some amount of logic needs to be applied.

enjoy your holidays, enjoy your Saturn philosophy & wait to see what the car will have in January. I think I know how it will be equipped, so I'm not worried.

:D :D :D :D



Ben

Don't expect to see the DCCD on the first year of STi's in the US. The UK version released in feb isn't getting it either, not even an option, but then they can import a JDM spec for a few G's more and have the real mccoy.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Koyo
You can always get a Greddy (sp?) or a MRT FMIC and trade your hood with a RS owner assuming it will fit. [/QUOTE

It would probaby fit but WRX hoods are aluminum, RS hoods are not. Carbon fiber is the way to go. The silver Kaminari WRX in Import Tuner has one with a reverse scoop. Looks mean.

Back to the original question...

The Lexus IS 300.

The Toyota Altezza does not come with a straight 6 in any other market.

- Steve

I found that article shortly after I had posted that. Me personally I dont like Saturn, it was more what I thought they had "borrowed". Like I said, I screwed up. Oh well, everyone enjoy it when it gets here however it gets here.

Peace

Originally posted by zzyzx
Back to the original question...

The Lexus IS 300.

The Toyota Altezza does not come with a straight 6 in any other market.

- Steve

huh ?

they sell the IS200 in the UK with a 2.0l six and also the IS300 :

http://www.lexus.co.uk/

they didn't initially to sell the 3.0l in the UK, but the 2.0l was popular enough & there was enough demand for more power, they added the 3.0l




Ben
knows the US STi will be more than adequate :D

In the UK, eh? That's news to me. Well, for what it's worth, the US market got it first... And I'd bet we get the upcoming IS 430 first, too.

- Steve

in the above posts it was mentioned that JDM cars vary and some are and some arent 276hp, as far as i know (and im no expert in any way) in japan it is illegal to produce cars over a certain HP, so in fact many manufactures will post 276, but most actually go beyond its "written" HP

Its not a law as far as I know. Its my understanding that its a "gentlemen's agreement". Its also pretty common here in the states too. If I recall, the L88 Corvette (1967?) was rated waaay lower than it actually produced. They took a rating at a lower rpm thus making it sort of true. :) Pretty clever if you ask me. Maybe that's how it works in Japan. I'm sure the Skyline GTR really does make 276hp... At about 5k rpms. :)

Yoshi
Originally posted by blueimpreza25rs
in the above posts it was mentioned that JDM cars vary and some are and some arent 276hp, as far as i know (and im no expert in any way) in japan it is illegal to produce cars over a certain HP, so in fact many manufactures will post 276, but most actually go beyond its "written" HP

iirc the Supra Turbo sold in Japan came with smaller turbos.

Originally posted by Oldnslow
You know, with the EVO coming out so strong at 271 hp/273 ft. torque (probably a 5 sec/150mph car) it is going to take quite a bit to put some distance between that car and the U.S. STI. That's why I am thinking Subaru is planning something special--perhaps a 2.5 WITH the twin-scroll, hopefully with DCCD as an option. Like 310-320hp, even with our gas, emissions, and perhaps slightly lower compression ratio. A motor with 25% more displacement just would change the whole performance parameter. This would be an STI worth waiting and getting in line for, and give an enormous boost to Subaru's reputation. Can you imagine the press reaction to such a car, let alone the reaction in the rest of the world?


Dig Dig Dig !!!
We have a winner.

I may be incorrect on thisbut I believe they are rated at no more than 276hp (though some do obviously produce more) so that you dont have to have an S Class license or whatever it actually is in Japan to drive them legally. Their licensing is based on power as well as experience. C Class cant exceed a certain amount of power(technically) so on so forth. Again I might have another wire crossed here, but I believe thats how it is and it has nothing to do with Gran turismo.

Peace

Ok ok... First of all, the 276hp output that appears on every Japanese Supercar, well that's just crap. The Japs came up with that legislation, I don't know why, but every article wrote about the Lancer EVO and the Skyline, the 300ZX TT,the Mitsubishi 3000GT, Acura's NSX, the RX-7, the Supra TT AND the STi, claim that these cars produce over 300hp in stock forms. I've read 320 for the EVO VII, 350 for the Skyline, and so on....
Fact of the matter is, the 280hp legislation is a big joke.
Now, for all you WRX STi lovers out there, read this article, sit back and enjoy guys...
http://www.apexjapan.com/news/sti8/sti8.html

Argh!

I've been Googling around for ten minutes, and I can't find the reference... I know that either MG or Austin Healey put out a late 60's model that was more powerful in the US version than the UK version (because of some exhaust restriction or the like) but I can't find the name!

BTW, I also concur that the IS300 came out in the US before the same version did overseas. Wasn't it just reviewed a couple of months ago in Car?

Originally posted by zzyzx
In the UK, eh? That's news to me. Well, for what it's worth, the US market got it first... And I'd bet we get the upcoming IS 430 first, too.

- Steve

Hint....Look for the IS430 at the show as well.

To debute on Sunday the 5th

From what I know. It should be somewhere right around 280hp. We did get the brembo brakes on it. For a while we were just getting the 4pots. We will be missing a few stange things that would be in any other car and you will wonder why SOA did that. But keep in mind this whole thing isnt all SOA release, FHI has the biggest part in all this crap. We might not get STI wheels. Maybe BBS instead? Not sure on that one. Look for it to be 2.5L DOHC. But rumors are rumors what do I know?

J

US Desiel fuel has high sulfer, but not the unleaded....

Test Drove the New STI last week and I am pretty sure the USDM model wont be setting any trends as for more power or options. I wish they would but I highly doubt they will. Ah well I guess I stay here in Japan.

Uh, why are you "pretty sure"?

Originally posted by Glenn Wallace
Uh, why are you "pretty sure"?

Because the Guy that tunes my car has been working on Subys for over 10 years and his father owns one of the largest Suby dealerships in Aomori Prefecture.
Pretty much gonna get the same car.

So, you test-drove it, what are your impressions of the car?
C'mon, spill the beans:eek:

Pretty much gonna get the same car.

What does a Japanese dealer know about a US spec car?

We will be missing a few stange things that would be in any other car and you will wonder why SOA did that. But keep in mind this whole thing isnt all SOA release, FHI has the biggest part in all this crap.

Foolio, you sound like a disgruntled SOA NJ employee who has been kept in the dark by FHI.

Glenn

Originally posted by imprezwrx
Ok ok... First of all, the 276hp output that appears on every Japanese Supercar, well that's just crap. The Japs came up with that legislation, I don't know why, but every article wrote about the Lancer EVO and the Skyline, the 300ZX TT,the Mitsubishi 3000GT, Acura's NSX, the RX-7, the Supra TT AND the STi, claim that these cars produce over 300hp in stock forms. I've read 320 for the EVO VII, 350 for the Skyline, and so on....
Fact of the matter is, the 280hp legislation is a big joke.
Now, for all you WRX STi lovers out there, read this article, sit back and enjoy guys...
http://www.apexjapan.com/news/sti8/sti8.html

People claimed the 22b made over 300hp. It did not, it was dyno'd right smack at the 276hp mark. The increase in torque, and power under the curve is what made it faster than the "regular" 22b. It's not all peak power, ;).

I wish I had the money to get it. Get on it and you can hear the intake start gulping down air and the Turbine spooling like someone put a match ups its you know what and your head is stuck against the head rest. I loved it but I am way partial to Subys. It is alot more comfortable the seats hold you alot better and its all around just better on the inside not near as many creaks and squeaks. Looks like Suby decided to listen to consumers and up the interior.
On the dealer comment. Suby has already said they are gonna one up Mitsu and in doing so in the USDM market means that they are gonna have to give you the equivalent of a JDM version. Also every car is rated at 280ps and like said before in some other folks post its garbage. These cars are easily over that but legislations keeps them from posting the real numbers. From what Saito-san said the JDM version is pushing more like 330ps than the posted 280ps. Now granted this is just hear say but the only way Suby is gonna one up Mitsu is give you the same car. Also the price tag on these babys are not cheap even with a fat exchange rate up here its still like 32k for whole package. I will go take some pictures sometime this week and post them if you guys like. If they were to give you something better than they have hear be ready to look at a 40k price tag. Saito-san has been driving Subys for a long time and doing amature racing he also holds several licenses. His son who tunes my car has been working for suby for over 10 years. This is what they say thats all again this is only hear say not written fact so please dont flame by saying bs just take it for what it is.

. It's not all peak power,
Fact of the matter is hp is a calculation. The real thing you feel while pushing the pedal to the metal is torque. But maybe I'm mistaking, but anyways, peak hp has something to do with it. And you're the first guy I heard come up with this 276hp on the dyno. I'm betting more like 320+hp for the 22b:alien:

Originally posted by Glenn Wallace


Foolio, you sound like a disgruntled SOA NJ employee who has been kept in the dark by FHI.

Glenn


Hahaha, Na, not disgruntled. I love SOA as a company unlike some other people around here. I know somethings about the car but Im just not sayin. I like to read what people say about Rumors and stuff though. Some are true some are false. I guess we'll all find out for sure when it gets here. I wouldnt take the guy from Japans advice though. Put it this way... Sales in Europe and Japan bombed for the last 2 years because of the styling of the WRX front end. Japan has hardly any auto market at all. Saying that; why would they have the best of the best there? Why not bring it to the US where the Market and money is? I believe that is what they(FHI) will do. But the day we all find out is the day that the STI rolls onto OUR showroom floors. I dont think you will be disapointed. The things I know matter nothing to performance. I do know this.... Whats an EVO? ;)

J

Could have fooled me on the market bombing. I see as many if not more GDA and GDB models as I do GC8s. But then I see alot of Foresters and Legacys as well.
Just remember I said it was hear say nothing more.

Originally posted by imprezwrx

Fact of the matter is hp is a calculation. The real thing you feel while pushing the pedal to the metal is torque. But maybe I'm mistaking, but anyways, peak hp has something to do with it. And you're the first guy I heard come up with this 276hp on the dyno. I'm betting more like 320+hp for the 22b:alien:

Yup, you don't "feel" horsepower, you feel torque, HP is a mesurement of the work the engine is doing over time.

About the 22b, check this link.

http://dyno.scoobynet.co.uk/indexps.htm

Scroll down a bit, you'll see the actual dyno's. Richard Squire (who used to post here) only makes 201hp at the wheels in his modified car. Others dyno'd right at the claimed HP.

Peak HP means a bit, but not to much in the scheme of things. Area under the curve means alot. A car that peaks at 200hp, but makes most of that power all over the place will be faster than a car that makes 220hp peak, but everywhere else make very little power. The 22b makes more power under the curve than the "regular" STis, so it was a bit faster. People mistook this for a large jump in HP, which isn't true, as apparent by the above dyno numbers.

Originally posted by DuoMaxwell
Could have fooled me on the market bombing. I see as many if not more GDA and GDB models as I do GC8s. But then I see alot of Foresters and Legacys as well.
Just remember I said it was hear say nothing more.

I've heard it on the news over and over again, Japan is in the middle of a horrible depression. :(

Ummm... Japan still hasn't recovered from the burst bubble. Far from it. Companies are streamlining operations in order to cut costs and they won't produce anything totally extraneous to what they have.

What does this mean for Subaru? I'm guessing that the cars won't be too different. Yes, I am also including the STi in that list as a possibility. As a result maybe, the the Twin-Scroll system and all the goodies the JDM version has will be included in the US version.

As for Japanese HP limits. Yes, it is total BS. 280PS doesn't usually mean 280PS. It can be 280PS at highway running speed which is at most ~100km/h there (~62mph). If a motor produces more than that with the gov knowing it, then the owner of the vehicle gets taxed. At least, that is what I heard.

Lastly, m ben from his post.. A 2.0l six cyl on the altezza? Those cylinders would be really damn small. :D I 've heard of a 1.6l V8 that Suzuki produced about 5 years ago..

My 0.02$,
Tim

As far as the IS300 argument goes. True, we got a 6 cylinder with more power than any other market.

However, Toyota used the old NA Supra motor, a motor that was already developed and approved for use in the USDM. That is a huge leap from Subaru developing an entirely new engine to use in our market.

I would love to see it, but I seriously doubt Subaru would go through all that work for, what, ~2000 USDM STi cars? Not likely.

- Trent

We will be missing a few stange things that would be in any other car and you will wonder why SOA did that. But keep in mind this whole thing isnt all SOA release, FHI has the biggest part in all this crap.


I'm guessing that must be why we keep hearing about it coming without a radio. Now I hear no floormats either. I hope it gets the DCCD and those cool gauges.