Big problem, major concern. My car is coming up to its 90,000 miles and I was going to have my mechanic change the tranny oil because it was about time. When he checked the fluid, it was a brownish color, and he asked me when I changed it last. I was _positive_ that I had a local shop do it at 60,000 miles (I know, waiting 30,000 miles was stupid) and when I went through all my records, I couldn't find ANY receipt of it (I keep very good records). So I called the shop, and they said they did NOT change the transmission fluid. So going back farther, it looks like the LAST time I changed the automatic tranny fluid was at 27,500 or so. Almost 60,000 miles ago!

I talked to a guy yesterday and he said now I can't change my fluid, because if you don't change it every 15-30k miles, the tranny gets used to the bad fluid, and new fluid can cause it to seize and die... $4000 in damages, right?

So what should I do? Basically roll over and die, or just sell the car and get out, knowing a tranny failure is eminent?

Get another opinion. I have never heard of a tranny getting used to bad fluid.

Well, my mechanic told me that the transmission feels and sounds OK when he took it out for a drive. it just looks aweful i guess... he said the car is in gorgeous shape otherwise but he was thinking i changed the oil at 60k miles... i called him today to let him know there might have been a mistake made, but he takes a day or two to call back (he comes to my house to do maintenance on all my cars, so its worth the wait)...

Read the second paragraph on this page. I found a ton of websites that say "If you wait 50,000 miles, it may be too late" type of deal..
http://www.goa-northcoastoil.com/tips/atfchnges.html

Jiffy Lube won't even change the oil if it hasn't been changed in 50k miles.

I also have heard the same thing on tranny oil. BTW, I had no idea you were supposed to change it that often. I better stay on top of that....

I read the article. Very imformative. I see it only talks about Automatics. In an effort to look like a goof, I must ask...what about manual trannys?

Scary too.

I changed the ATF oil in my 92 Integra about every 100k miles. It was still going strong when I traded it in at 301k miles. I never had to do anything else to the transmission, and the last time that ATF oil was changed, it still looked good.

What do you mean by "Good" Mine looks dark. It wasn't thick or anything, just brown, and I believe it is supposed to be pink... Any thoughts?

The only time you should be really worried is if the fluid smells burned. That's a sign of the tranny going bad.

The fluid will darken, over time, but should still be pretty pink. The tranny is a closed system, so you shouldn't be picking up contaminants, like engine oil.

If someone proves me wrong I'll cheerfully eat my words but the "tranny gets used to bad fluid" thing sounds like a major old wive's (mechanics?) tale. I went to the link but it didn't have anything convincing.

I can't think of a single mechanical reason why this would be true.

good luck,
mbs

micah,
Even though I mostly agree with you, I have heard too often. *shrug*


dada21,

What color towel? Take a white paper towel or several white pieces of paper and drip some of the fluid on there. Fluids can be very deciving if looked at in a diff ight on the wrong surface. When I get home I will check mine to see what it looks like...actually mines a manual.....hhhmmm...

O.K. here it is nice and simple if you havn't changed your tranny fluid in your car and it is over 30k CHANGE IT. Over time the fluid oxidizes and starts to break down. Not to mention all of the metal particles floating around in there. Why not put in new fluid that can act as a barrier to any damage that might be caused by "old" fluid.
I am going to change mine out at 5k and replace it with synthetic Mobil ATF. After the first couple of thousand miles I figure it will be a good thing to get out the initial metal shavings. I changed my rear diff. at 1500miles and could actually see metal flakes draining out with the fluid.
TIm

Just got off www.mysubaru.com (http://www.mysubaru.com) and according to the Manufacturing Gods from Soob you should only "inspect" ATF at the 30k, 60k, and 90k check ups. There is not a drop dead replacement milage specified. So if you did an ATF change at 30k and want another one at 90k what the hell is your mechanic talking about? Tell him it was "inspected" at 60k and deemed to not be in need of change. That is correct Soob intervals to at least "inspect" it. "Inspect" car shop term to sell more services to peeps than they actually might need.
TIm

If all else fails, have the dealership do it. That way, if it goes bad, put it on them. I am going to go check mine now....

Change the oil, it won't hurt anything. When you chabge the oil you're only changing about 4-5 quarts anyway and there is over 10 in the whole trans. Changing the oil and filter will help since you're getting some new oil and a new filter.

As for manual trannys, change the oil whenever. I like to change it every 15k, but that's just me, you can go every 30k or more. In fact, some people say that you never have to change manual trans oil since it is only a lubricant w/o much heat or pressure acting upon it. It only helps to change it.

To reiterate, change your auto trans oil, you will only be helping, that crap about the trans getting "used" to the oil is a load of crap. Hope my info helps. BTW, make sure that the oil and filter get changed. Good luck.

Godmal

I'll go smell it now. Should I smell it "warm" or smell it "cold"?

If its dark but doesn't smell, should I attempt to change it?

And if it does smell burned, what are the options other than an entire tranny overhaul?

Hmm. Went out and smelled the tranny fluid. It looks brownish, maybe lighter than regular motor oil. The does not smell burned, it smells like motor oil. It's still fairly 'clear' though, its not dark brown that you can't see through.

I don't want to do the tranny fluid change if its going to seize up my tranny... That would be a _bad idea_ heh. But if its normal for it to get a little brownish, maybe I should give it a try.

If it was burned smelling, would it be REALLY REALLY obvious? I put the tranny fluid on a towel and gave it a wiff, and did not smell any obvious burn scents, and I have a real sensitive nose.

Godmal, if the fluid needs to be changed, doing it yourself isn't going to accomplish much, for the reason you stated. Doing a manual drain only gets rid of about 1/3 of the fluid in the system.

You need to go get the system mechanically flushed and replaced. It'll run you about $80, but it's worth it.

Ok, uneducated man speaking here. I had a friend who ran an old '85 318 for 4 years without changing the oil(I know this is motor oil, but this may apply). The bolt on his oil pan was stripped, and he did NOT have the money to get it fixed(car was given to him in a beat-up condition bya family friend, this was not a "phat" ride). He finally graduated from college, and took the car to a local BMW shop to have them look it over to see what they could do. It wasn't going to last too much longer, so they said, do NOT change the oil. Their reasoning was: old oil in the engine this long, allows contaminated oil(which itself doesn't apply to the ATF, I know) to settle in the seals. Sometimes, gaps in the seals(leaks) are blocked by this oil. If they put in clean, new oil, it could eventually break loose that contaminated oil, and the seals would begin to leak, a lot.

Again, this is just what they said. Seems mildly plausible. Maybe it applies? Maybe not? Just throwing it out there.

Neil

It does, and it does not apply.

What they told him was true. That's the same reason why you sometimes get leaks if you change from dino to synthetic in an old engine. The coking of the old oil will likely have plugged any seal leaks and changing it would expose the leaks.

However, they likely only told him that because the whole engine was toast, and it wouldn't be worth fixing all of the things that would happen when he changed the oil.

I don't think that that applies, in this case.

On Several episodes of Goss' Garage with Pat Goss he has said something similar. If the tranny oil smells rancid, burned or vineagar like then you should NOT change it and just let it die gracefuly. I am inclined to believe him, but in this case it does not sound as if the fluid is in that condition.

No wonder there are so many Tranny shops around. YOU DON'T change the fluid UNTIL its burned or otherwise not in good shape. My tranny puked at 52K miles in the old SHO, and then at 75K miles the fluid was slightly burned, and filled with "stuff" that the local AMMCO didn't clean out when they did thier horrible rebuild job. Changed it out and the car picked up 8mph tops speed, and a MPG or two on the highway, as the unburned fluid and the unclogged filter were giving the 3rd and 4th gear bands more pressure (less tranny slip).

Lets put it this way, it can't hurt as a auto tranny is going to die in a hurry if the bad fluid is left in.

IMO, changing the fluid shouldn't be a big deal. You do a lot of highway driving, dada, so it won't be burnt (air flow = cooled trans = non-burnt fluid).

Does the stock tranny cool better with highway driving even though I don't have a tranny cooler unit?

I'm beginning to think it'll be ok to go to have my mechanic and do one of those "entire tranny fluid changes" that I see @ Jiffy Lube and just see what happens. The fluid is dark but doesn't smell bad at all, in fact, it smells good (like oil should at least). And its a lot lighter than I expected.

I went to Jiffy Lube and they are faxing me a copy of their standard explanation about why you shouldn't change tranny fluid if its been there a while. They even have a disclaimer you have to sign if it appears that you haven't changed it in a while, so they won't be held liable for a dead tranny. I'll post it on our website when I get it.

Thanks for the info guys, keep it coming if you have any more ideas http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif

Take a look at the Car Talk website. They talk about the "don't change old AT fluid" myth and the pros & cons of draining the pan vs flushing the AT.

Here is the link www.cars.com/carsapp/national/?&srv=parser&act=display&tf=/advice/caradviser/transmission_fluid.tmpl (http://www.cars.com/carsapp/national/?&srv=parser&act=display&tf=/advice/caradviser/transmission_fluid.tmpl)

After skimming through the posts i have this to say. dealers/quick change shops/mechanics dont want to deal with the possibility of the tranny getting worse after the change. If it's gonna die what's the difference when. I say change it, if it dies, fix it.If it does not die then be happy. Oil breaks down. The tranny does get hot. good luck. the longer you wait to change it the greater the possibility of "bad oil syndrome". thats just my 2 cents.

Changing the old fluid is not a problem. The mechanic is just avoiding 'last touched it' syndrome.

He thinks the tranny is going to go, no matter what you do, and he doesn't want to be the one who last worked on it. This is simple liability paranoia.

That being said, unless you drive like a madmad, or do a lot of towing, your transmission is probably just fine. 60k is not an unreasonable expectation of fluid life. Subaru only recommends an inspection every 30k, not replacement. Find someone who will do the fluid swap and you'll be fine.

How about you try this...
Drain the fluid from the pan and change the filter. Add new fluid to replace the amount that came out. Repeat this procedure (minus the filter change) every 5k-10k miles for the next 20k or 30k miles.

By doing this, the old fluid will be gradually replaced by the new stuff, so if this stuff about not replacing old fluid is true, it won't be as much of a shock to the system.