Just checking to find how much interest there is in this. Will be available for both automatic and manual WRX's.

Specs are as follows:
US WRX spec as follows: -

Stock car measured at circa 160 WHP

Stage 1 (circa 180WHP)
intercooler pipe
rear muffler
ECU re-flash

Stage 2 (circa 200WHP)
intercooler pipe
rear muffler
catless centre section
ECU re-flash

Stage 3 (circa 228 WHP)
intercooler pipe
rear muffler
catless centre section
catless up-pipe
sport cat down-pipe
ECU re-flash


I can't give out pricing info. on here, however if there is interest or questions please PM me or e-mail me.

Ryan Cavalier
www.spimotorsports.com

Hey no fair - I emailed you on this this morning!!

:D

Yes - I would be interested, and I'm trying to find out why it's still all "hush hush" -- it's been on the table, AFAIK, since mid December. Is it FOR REAL now?!

I think people want to know some more details on this - like why is there no 3rd cat, and yet the DP cat is high flow? How about the up-pipe - is it flex joint? Bung for EGT? ECUTek - do we get a new ECU and send the old one back, or do we have to take it somewhere to get it flashed, etc...

Kyle

PM'd ya. A couple of questions that I'm pretty sure you'll get alot, but shouldn't get anyone in trouble (if not, my bad):
-Are these set up like the Vishnu or TurboXS stages, such that once I buy into stage 1, stage 2 is cheaper?
-I've already got the Prodrive muffler, does that change the price as well? I could always sell the new muffler if not.

As a general point, I've been mighty impressed with the couple of Prodrive upgrades I have so far. I wouldn't have any problem at all buying one of these packs even if they were reasonably spendy.

E-mailed you back. ;)

There isn't anything hush hush per say. However, Nick won't allowing posting as this isn't an 'in stock' item. I am allowed to ask about interest and answer questions.

So... without further delay... on to the questions.

They do want to keep 1 cat. If you notice that most of the full turbo-back systems utilize one cat in the downpipe. It's safer from a legal point of view certainly. I will get more information on this though.

The up-pipe does have a flex joint in it. Hopefully I can get pictures of this soon. I'll e-mail England about it today. As for the EGT bung, do you mean an additional bung or just the standard one? It does have a place for the factory sensor, yes.

The ECU's will be done on a core basis. I am still working with Prodrive to determine if they want to buy several ECU's to speed the process up. I'm literally 10 minutes away from them and we're working very closely on this.

If you purchase stage 1 you will be able to upgrade to stage 2 by buying the additional parts and having the reflash done to stage 2 specs. Same to go from 1 to 3 or 2 to 3.

The muffler that is available as a stand alone is different than the power pack unit. The power pack has a round tip and the internals are different. It is engineered for power and not simply for sound quality.

Here is a small picture of the components (some) and I'll have a larger one soon.

http://www.spimotorsports.com/images/Home/sppp2.jpg

Ryan Cavalier
www.spimotorsports.com

OK - so this is basically what I've been waiting for for several months now!! I really appreciate the info (read the email, and the site)

Understandable on the pricing - no problem. I think there might be a number of people who would be interested in this. After reading it, my questions were kinda dumb, so here goes (hopefully better)

1. What is the general time frame expected for these packs to arrive at our doorsteps? (Generally speaking, of course)

2. For the ECUTek solution, I believe it has the capability to "fix" the CEL for cat inefficiency (which will, most likely) happen with this setup - is this true for the Prodrive-tuned ECU, or does it come with some sort of CEL fix of some sort?

3. I believe the PPP's have been over seas for quite some time, amd had received rave reviews, so undoubtedly they've been working on a similiar solution for the US. But is there anybody around here (stateside), or around the forums who was a beta tester who could give "real world" experience with the product?

4. I guess I meant to say about the cats that the "typical" setup from other vendors is usually keeping the 3rd factory cat (or something similar) and removing the uppipe/downpipe cats instead. Obviously, Prodrive has their own unique solution, and I just wanted to make sure that wasn't a mis-print, when you mentioned the high-flow cat is located in the DP.

5. I imagine most people will want to see real pics of the entire "packs" (It appears the uppipe is not pictured) and some more pic's of the rear sillencer, as it's slightly different than the "other" prodrive muffler.

6. Does this kit come with EVERYTHING necessary? (Including gaskets, where applicable, all nuts and bolts, and washers, and etc...)

7. I think most people will want to see performance data, dyno plots, etc.... since, for some, that's what they base their buying decision off of. (of course, it's all just estimates and not necessarily a gaurantee of the performance from car-to-car, but it'd be nice to see what the claims are, and I'm willing to bet some people will "demand" to see it anyway.)

I basically said to myself that I am going to hold off on all engine mods until this "option" from Prodrive was released. However, I do not want to be a "beta tester" (obviously) so while I would love to get on the first batch coming over, I'd rather somebody else find any bugs first. (Or calm my fears by telling me that Prodrive has been testing this for months on a bunch of different cars in different climates, conditions, etc... and all my fears are unwarranted.)

:D

thanks!

Edit: Hit reply by accident.

1) Order was placed yesterday. Pack should be stateside in approx. 1month.

2) I've been in Prodrives car. No CEL.

3) I've driven the car, been in the car. What do you want to know exactly? The car is amazingly driveable. 3rd gear from 2000rpm feels amazingly lively, unlike the stock car. Much of the lag and hesitant characteristics of the stock vehicle are gone. Daily driving is like driving a standard model in the sense that it doesn't drive like a modified car (no problems, odd idle, etc.). Well mannered and a great, across the board performance increase. Super Street and another mag. have done a review. Be on the lookout.

4) The cat is indeed in the down-pipe. Similar to the MRT placement if I remember correctly. Though I'll have to look again to be sure.

5) Some pictures are available now on our site. www.spimotorsports.com

6) The kit will include EVERYTHING you need. Prodrive makes products of OEM standards. They won't leave anything out.

7) There are a couple magazine tests coming out. I'll see if I can get my hands on the information from them.

There is a car with miles and miles of hard, HARD driving on it. I'll get exact mileages and what not. They have waited to release it because they wanted to work bugs out BEFORE it was sold. The car has been from here to Portland and back in the worst rain we've had in a long time. Not one single problem.

Ryan

Cool info! I have a couple questions about that "power pack" version of the muffler:

(1) Is it available separately?

(2) If I can't get the kit now (no $$$, don'cha know) but have the regular Prodrive muffler (with oval tip), are there any upgrade options? Is the "oval" muffler even suitable for this application?

- C

The muffler is not available alone, no.

The regular muffler is not the same and not suitable for the PowerPack.

Ryan

Originally posted by Irvine Subaru
The muffler is not available alone, no.

The regular muffler is not the same and not suitable for the PowerPack.

Ryan

damn... you are going to manage to get all my money... again. ;) :)

Paul

ps: sorry haven't written in a while, but thanks for sending the cap and the tensioner bolt.

bump

Originally posted by pjcoregon




ps: sorry haven't written in a while, but thanks for sending the cap and the tensioner bolt.

bump

:D:D:D

Originally posted by Irvine Subaru
The muffler is not available alone, no.

The regular muffler is not the same and not suitable for the PowerPack.

Ryan

hey, but in this thread:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=314842&highlight=prodrive+ecu

you say it *is* available separately! I'm so confused!! :confused:

:)

- C

Originally posted by brewdude


hey, but in this thread:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=314842&highlight=prodrive+ecu

you say it *is* available separately! I'm so confused!! :confused:

:)

- C

I meant the full exhaust will be available seperately. Not the rear section only. Sorry for the confusion.

thanks Ryan, that clears things up nicely :) is the full exhaust 2.5" or 3"?

- C

Originally posted by brewdude
thanks Ryan, that clears things up nicely :) is the full exhaust 2.5" or 3"?

- C

2.5" exhuast.

Looks like there will be a flood of WR Sport Mufflers hitting the used classifieds in a few months.

Any policy made by SOA or at the least Irvine Subaru about warranty work with these products if installed at Irvine?

Originally posted by Arnie


Any policy made by SOA or at the least Irvine Subaru about warranty work with these products if installed at Irvine?

No.

Dont think I could part with my wrsport prodrive muffler unless its shown to flow horrible....it sounds so nice.

Originally posted by mlambert
Dont think I could part with my wrsport prodrive muffler unless its shown to flow horrible....it sounds so nice.

Flow horrible? No. However, it wasn't designed for power, but for sound quality.

The exhaust with the PowerPack utilizes the round tip, unique to the PP.

So how does it sound?

How does it compare to some other systems out there right now? Or is it just a louder wrsport sound?

Chris

Originally posted by Arnie
Looks like there will be a flood of WR Sport Mufflers hitting the used classifieds in a few months.

Any policy made by SOA or at the least Irvine Subaru about warranty work with these products if installed at Irvine?

haha, now I'm caught in a dilemma: buy it now like I planned before I saw this thread, or wait and buy a used one :)

- C

It's not all that much louder. It does sound just as good as the WRSport muffler though.


I don't know that there will be a flood of used mufflers, but I'm sure there will be some. ;)

Ryan

Great, I just ordered my Prodrive Muffler today. Now what?

I think it was mentioned and I'm sure you'd post them if you had them, but dyno plots with horsepower AND torque would be lovely. I know it's all 'circa' depending on your car and fuel, but I'd like to see how the power curve changes (hopefully broadens)with each of the kits. I like that we're getting some choices with these ECUTEK packages, but thus far Vishnu is the only vendor with totally complete and current, easily accessible (nice page on the web) information regarding what their stages can do.

I know this is all brand new and I can try to be patient, but we're all quite anxious to get complete information so we may make an informed decision.

Thanks,

Phil

Originally posted by WRXURV8
Great, I just ordered my Prodrive Muffler today. Now what?

sell it to me, reeeeaal cheap! (it's worthless now anyway :D )

- C

Dang it Ryan! Tempting me right as my tax refund is coming in! Wheels or power? Decisions, decisions...and maybe goodbye to my WR Sport muffler! :(

Quick question: CARB legal? (yeah , right! :rolleyes: ) :lol:

Cheers,
Grant

Edit: Assuming I already had a 3rd Cat eliminator pipe and the WR Sport muffler, could I simply purchase the ECUTek and intercooler hose? Any idea on price?

Originally posted by Irvine Subaru

The exhaust with the PowerPack utilizes the round tip, unique to the PP.

So much for stealth!;)


For an exhaust designed for power rather than sound, the round one still sounds great.

I was wondering if prodrive is going to offer just the ecu upgrades. I doubt it but never hurts to ask.
I already have an exhaust so i dont feel like buying everything again

Originally posted by YoungWilliams
Edit: Assuming I already had a 3rd Cat eliminator pipe and the WR Sport muffler, could I simply purchase the ECUTek and intercooler hose? Any idea on price?

he did say that to upgrade, all you had to do is buy the parts that you don't have, something similar to the Vishnu path. So I would think so

though they may want it all Prodrive, so if you have other manufacturers, they may not, dammit, I just confused myself I think..... :rolleyes:

speed safely

Brian :devil:

How about just a stage 3 ECU? If they sell individually without the rest of the components, I'd be interested.

chris

Ryan,
Feeling a little let down. When I ordered my Prodrive muffler I inquired and was told there was no word on the PPP. I received it last Thursday, installed it and now this. Definitely would have held off.

As far as pricing, since you can't post it, can you email me the prices for each "stage"?

I posted this the second I got word from Prodrive.

Because the ECU upgrades are done to Prodrive's specs and with Prodrive's parts a different exhaust will possibly not work exactly as well (say 3" versus Prodrives 2.5"). I'm not saying that it wouldn't work at all, simply that the design is a bit different.

The WRSport muffler will not work with this kit as it is of a completely different design. The kit is designed to work with the components included.

I don't know that they will offer the specific reflashes seperately, however I will inquire. I know that with the actual software you can tune specifically, just like the ECUTek. Prodrive's software is a version of the ECUTek.

All the specific stage information and pricing is on our website.
www.spimotorsports.com

Ryan

Can we begin to speculate on price? I know that the kit is something like 1600 pounds in UK....but I don't think they have different stages. So I'd say $2500 in the US, whatdaya think?

Originally posted by thrdeye
Can we begin to speculate on price? I know that the kit is something like 1600 pounds in UK....but I don't think they have different stages. So I'd say $2500 in the US, whatdaya think?

The price information is on our site. ;)

nice! i ran into your site ryan and look what i have found.....goodness from the heavens! :D i think ill be driving up to irvine soon to pick up some springs and damn now a power upgrade :devil:

i do have some questions in mind about compatibility with other products....

Will i be able to use the PPP with another turbo such as the IHI VF series (vf22, vf30, vf34)?

After market exaust (besides the Prodrive WR Sport), will there be any difference with performance exaust such as the Apexi N1, GT Spec, Hayabusa Light muffler?

Any final and most important question... W A R R A N T Y! i'm aware that Subaru UK and the addition of their PPP is still under warranty only if installed at a dealer?....will the same guidelines appear in the US by SOA?

Thanks Ryan for all the info,
Eiji

The PowerPack is designed around the components that are included with it and there are no provisions for different turbos and exhausts. That would require custom mapping.

There is NO warranty garauntee. Prodrive does not have an agreement with SOA on this product.

Please keep in mind that we have put the products up for pre-order on our site and will be filling those first.

Ryan

Hmm, maybe we should consolidate Lisa's and Ryan's threads!

In Lisa's thread Ryan mentioned that Prodrive is only tuning for the stock turbo. No mention if the ECU is available separately. I would think that Prodrive would optimize their ECU for their components so using other components would not give the optimal performance.

I'm in the pickle that many are in as far as having other exhaust components. What to do, sell and get the whole Prodrive system or just ECUTEK from another vendor with the parts we have. Its a tough call, esp. concerning price for the performance.

Originally posted by Irvine Subaru
The PowerPack is designed around the components that are included with it and there are no provisions for different turbos and exhausts. That would require custom mapping.

There is NO warranty garauntee. Prodrive does not have an agreement with SOA on this product.

Please keep in mind that we have put the products up for pre-order on our site and will be filling those first.

Ryan


hmmmm by installing this i will void my extended warranty, oh well! :devil: looks like ill be returning my unused extended warranty for exchange for this power :devil: ;)

Honestly i think this is a bargain when it comes to price especially for the stage 2 only $1270?!? man the ECU alone is almost $1000 right? plus it comes with an exuast and other stuff....

I'M IN! :D

We're able to ECUTek for your options, but that won't be the Prodrive Power Pack.

Ryan

Ryan sent you an email later, after hours yesterday - if you could just reply with the answer(s) I'll place my pre-order this afternoon.

thx!

Kyle

Originally posted by CirrusWRX
Ryan sent you an email later, after hours yesterday - if you could just reply with the answer(s) I'll place my pre-order this afternoon.

thx!

Kyle

No problem. I had planned to be out of the office, however I've postponed those plans until next week. I'll get my e-mail up and running here shortly.

Ryan

put me down for one

how different can the mufflers really be? i was really looking forward to being able to purchase their uppipe, midpipe, and downpipe, but not another muffler. but you say that the exhaust will only be offered as a complete turbo back? anyone else a little disgruntled by this? i guess i will keep my fingers crossed that the complete turbo back price will be very competitive.
spike

Originally posted by spike
how different can the mufflers really be? i was really looking forward to being able to purchase their uppipe, midpipe, and downpipe, but not another muffler. but you say that the exhaust will only be offered as a complete turbo back? anyone else a little disgruntled by this? i guess i will keep my fingers crossed that the complete turbo back price will be very competitive.
spike

I just talked to Prodrive again and they will not be offering the muffler for sale seperately. It is a signature of the Power Pack. The down-pipe and mid-pipe will be available and I'm waiting for pricing on those.

Ryan,

Pm'd you on a couple questions I have on Ecutek reprogramming.

Thanks.

Richard.

Got it and responded.

Guys, just to clear something up. The Power Pack uses ECUTek software to optimize the ECU to their modifications. The Prodrive version of the re-flash will NOT be optimal for anything else. We will be offering ECUTek flashes to local customers only as we prefer to do everything on a dyno with the actual car.

The Power Pack is just that, a pack. Everything is designed to work together and is optimized for the parts included.

Originally posted by Irvine Subaru


I just talked to Prodrive again and they will not be offering the muffler for sale seperately. It is a signature of the Power Pack.

Interesting marketing strategy on Prodrive's part.

If they were offering their packages with a SOA warranty it would make more sense, but right now they're just another tuner/retailer so it would seem strange to deny prospective customers a product obviously in demand ... unless Prodrive is trying to take a big tax loss on their US operation?;)

Originally posted by Coati


Interesting marketing strategy on Prodrive's part.

If they were offering their packages with a SOA warranty it would make more sense, but right now they're just another tuner/retailer so it would seem strange to deny prospective customers a product obviously in demand ... unless Prodrive is trying to take a big tax loss on their US operation?;)

The WRSport muffler is designed for sound. The Power Pack muffler is designed as a part of the Power Pack. WRSport is designed as a stand alone, where the Power Pack muffler is only offered as part of the pack.

Their intention is not to deny anyone anything. However, the Power Pack muffler is designed to make power and mark a Power Pack, the WRSport version is designed simply to enhance sound quality.

Thanks for your quick responses Ryan - placed my order a minute ago. Can't wait for more info!

(Would also be interested in reading the reviews when they become available!)

Kyle,

If you've got ANY questions, just let me know.

Lisa posted this in another thread, and I thought you'd be interested in reading it.

From Scott at Prodrive USA -
"Our system is a re-flash using the Ecutech system. But it is to our
standards and our program. We flew in two techs in from England and had them test and tune the US spec WRX for a week. Our program runs very similar to a factory WRX but with the extra horsepower. We tested in the Los Angeles traffic and even drove the car to Portland from Los Angeles. That was a total 15 hour drive with one stop. 11 hours of it was straight and at the end of it we drove through mountains. (was in boost for a long time through the mountains.) Once we got to Portland we gave rides to customers and Subaru Of America Western Region.

Another thing is we have 91 octane in California. In other words our gas is not good. Those horse power figures would probably be better if we have 92 or 93 octane. There is nothing we can do about the gas. Motor Trend drove the car and had nothing but good things to say about it. Super Street Magazine drove the car and had good things to say about the car too. One of the main reasons is because of our ECU program and the quality of our products. Our program eliminates the need for a boost controller.
We do not have any turbo upgrade yet. Nor do we have a program for a turbo upgrade."

Originally posted by Irvine Subaru


The WRSport muffler is designed for sound. The Power Pack muffler is designed as a part of the Power Pack. WRSport is designed as a stand alone, where the Power Pack muffler is only offered as part of the pack.

Their intention is not to deny anyone anything. However, the Power Pack muffler is designed to make power and mark a Power Pack, the WRSport version is designed simply to enhance sound quality.

I understand that, and I wasn't even talking about the WRSport, just the new one.

Prodrive is saying "we have a nicely-flowing muffler, but you can't buy it a la carte."

Can you point to any other tuner that won't sell a muffler unless you buy their ECU?

Why not just say "we have a nicely-flowing muffler, we'll sell it to you separately for xxx, but you wont reap the full power benefit until you buy our reflash for yyy (where xxx+yyy>cost of the pack bought at once).

So Prodrive would rather their catback be an exclusive than sell more of them at any price. That's their right, but it makes no economic sense.

Originally posted by Coati


I understand that, and I wasn't even talking about the WRSport, just the new one.

Prodrive is saying "we have a nicely-flowing muffler, but you can't buy it a la carte."

Can you point to any other tuner that won't sell a muffler unless you buy their ECU?

Why not just say "we have a nicely-flowing muffler, we'll sell it to you separately for xxx, but you wont reap the full power benefit until you buy our reflash for yyy (where xxx+yyy>cost of the pack bought at once).

So Prodrive would rather their catback be an exclusive than sell more of them at any price. That's their right, but it makes no economic sense.

It makes sense in the fact that all of Prodrive's products are designed to be OEM or better quality. That means they aren't going to sell something for you to bolt on that is going to decrease performance or hinder the driveability, reliability, etc. Prodrive isn't simply a tuner as much as they are an OEM manufacturer and main driving force to numerous race teams. It isn't about being able to sell X amount of Power Pack mufflers seperately, it is about the end result. That is why you won't be able to purchase it seperately.

Not to add fuel to the fire, but it's true - look at the products that Prodrive makes, and the type of company they are. They are viewed much differently over seas (from the reading I have done.)

Just because company A makes an uppipe and chooses not to sell it without their downpipe doesn't mean "they don't care about joe consumer," but perhaps they feel more comfortable knowing that the intended purpose of product A will perform how they inteded it, when being used with product B.

I mean, look at how critical everybody is of EVERY SINGLE PRODUCT. There are product reviews from things like blinker covers and shift knobs to turbos, FMICs, and entire transmissions. So for a ficticious example, if one goes and buys a product that claims to make 10whp when used with x, y, and z, then it should come damned near close to making 10whp when used with x, y, and z, as the company intends it. Now if they choose not to sell it without x, y, and z, then they can pretty much be assured that this will happen. Now on the other hand, if they sell it without requiring x, y, and z, and somebody installs it and only sees 5whp, then the company is selling a crappy product.

In this case, (and I'm COMPLETELY making this up) Prodrive has this "better flowing" muffler, but you won't see results without a tuned ECU. Why would they sell it, even if it flows better, if they cannot promise you will see the same results? Sure they could make a few more bucks off it, but from the reading I have done, Prodrive (while typically pricey) isn't concerned about "one more user" like a smaller shop might be. Not because they don't care, but because they DO care - they don't want a customer to be upset with a product that doesn't live up to its claims.

All of this is pure speculation on my part, but in a lot of industries, this type of thing is done all the time.
just my .02

Someone explains it better than myself. Thank you sir. You've essentially hit the nail directly on the head.

hmm..
i think it will have a definate market
those that want to go to "x" power with out any other mods and call it done .. now if SOA would only endorce it!

i am also suprised at the prices i was expecting 25%er so higher for the prodrive name

what if we have other modifications? say a larger intercooler? would we need a reflash or would the prodrive ecu just not be concerned with it? not that you aren't doing a great job fielding all of our questions, but is there anyway simon could give us some low down? if he can't tell us any more than you, then never mind, it was just a thought.
spike

Originally posted by Irvine Subaru
Someone explains it better than myself. Thank you sir. You've essentially hit the nail directly on the head.

No, he missed the nail, and hit his thumb with a bunch of assumptions that are not in evidence in this situation.

I had asked,
Why not just say "we have a nicely-flowing muffler, we'll sell it to you separately for xxx, but you wont reap the full power benefit until you buy our reflash for yyy (where xxx+yyy>cost of the pack bought at once).

Now, Ryan, your answer to that makes perfect sense if the product offered actually hurt the car (or the car's performance) in some way.

If, instead of problems, there is a benefit, and they explain that the full extent of the benefit will not be reached without another of their products, why not just sell the product? We're just talking about a muffler here, not a new turbo.

That's all I was asking.

It's nice that they sell fully-tuned packages. It's just odd, from a business aspect, that they do not intend to sell components, too, if there is a demand. It makes more sense if Subaru is saying they agreed to warranty certain products in certain combinations, and no other (I think this is how Subaru UK does it). But there is no warranty from SOA, so it seems to be a carryover tradition that is more for sentiment than business sense.

Originally posted by spike
what if we have other modifications? say a larger intercooler? would we need a reflash or would the prodrive ecu just not be concerned with it? not that you aren't doing a great job fielding all of our questions, but is there anyway simon could give us some low down? if he can't tell us any more than you, then never mind, it was just a thought.
spike

That is dependent on Simon. I don't know if he is around in all honesty.

As I've mentioned before you would need a custom flash if you're running anything in addition to what is provided. I don't know if an intercooler would have a huge effect on the Power Pack. Put it this way - put a larger I/C on a stock car and what happens? Similar to running a bigger I/C on a Power Pack. The ECU will do what it can do compensate, however it won't be optimal.

Originally posted by Jaxx
hmm..
i think it will have a definate market
those that want to go to "x" power with out any other mods and call it done .. now if SOA would only endorce it!

i am also suprised at the prices i was expecting 25%er so higher for the prodrive name

Perhaps the nice lower price is a byproduct of the lack of having to create a financial reserve or kickback to SOA for that endorsement?

Originally posted by Coati


If, instead of problems, there is a benefit, and they explain that the full extent of the benefit will not be reached without another of their products, why not just sell the product? We're just talking about a muffler here, not a new turbo.


I didn't mean to hijack this thread and get into a discussion of business practices for a company I don't work for, but if I were a company and I know how picky car enthusiasts are (I being one of them) why on earth would I want to subject myself to the potential problems? Clearly, you are the "smart" consumer - you could buy the product, and UNDERSTAND you may or may not reap the benefits, but for every SMART person like YOU, there are about 10 morons who don't know any better. THEY are the people I would be concerned with, because they cause headaches.

Sure, by selling the pieces individually they could make more money, but sometimes it's not just about "sales sales sales..." It may be the warranty (or lack of in this case) that plays a role, and maybe they simply didn't adapt for it. Maybe in 2 weeks they'll announce every part can be purchased individually.

I apologize my analogy was so ineffective, it was the best I could do.

We've asked Prodrive about the mufflers and there are NO plans to sell it seperately. The WRSport muffler is their stand alone.

I'll try to get Simon in here to clear this up a bit.

As it stands, the Power Pack muffler is NOT available seperately and will not be available seperately.

Prodrive would rather sell a quality product that customers will be happy and impressed than sell heaps of product. Quality and satisfaction over quantity.

Ryan

Originally posted by Coati
... It's nice that they sell fully-tuned packages. It's just odd, from a business aspect, that they do not intend to sell components, too, if there is a demand. It makes more sense if Subaru is saying they agreed to warranty certain products in certain combinations, and no other (I think this is how Subaru UK does it). But there is no warranty from SOA, so it seems to be a carryover tradition that is more for sentiment than business sense.


Dude... just DROP IT already... :mad: gawd danm!!!!!!!

i dont even know how Ryan has been so patient here, THATS WHAT PRODRIVE WANTS TO DO, THATS IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Irvine Subaru
Got it and responded.

Guys, just to clear something up. The Power Pack uses ECUTek software to optimize the ECU to their modifications. The Prodrive version of the re-flash will NOT be optimal for anything else. We will be offering ECUTek flashes to local customers only as we prefer to do everything on a dyno with the actual car.

The Power Pack is just that, a pack. Everything is designed to work together and is optimized for the parts included.

"DYNO"??? Cool! When and where?

Originally posted by Schlad


"DYNO"??? Cool! When and where?

We work with a couple different dynos in the area. :)

I was going to be nice and keep my mouth shut - But its all BS - these elite prodrive stamped products better be really priced well and perform up to TXS and Vishnu which I highly doubt. So why are yall making such a stink of this when you dont have to mess with the British crap and twisted logic? Remember they are all the UK has and the UK doesnt have TXS or Vishnu. There is no warrenty with these things so whats the big deal? you get a 2.5" unideal turboback in piecemeal, an Ecutek that knows if someone else flashed it and ! AND 1 WEEK WORTH OF US TESTING!!!! Vishnu and TXS have thousands of cars and 2 years of testing. Just cause its prodrive doesnt make it special.

It is my understanding that both mufflers are the same inner diameter, there is no way that one flows so much better than another that it will make a dramatic change in performance. If you can't afford the whole set up, or don't want it...go with the WRSport and live with the 1-2hp loss.

my .02

Originally posted by MP5
I was going to be nice and keep my mouth shut - But its all BS - these elite prodrive stamped products better be really priced well and perform up to TXS and Vishnu which I highly doubt. So why are yall making such a stink of this when you dont have to mess with the British crap and twisted logic? Remember they are all the UK has and the UK doesnt have TXS or Vishnu. There is no warrenty with these things so whats the big deal? you get a 2.5" unideal turboback in piecemeal, an Ecutek that knows if someone else flashed it and ! AND 1 WEEK WORTH OF US TESTING!!!! Vishnu and TXS have thousands of cars and 2 years of testing. Just cause its prodrive doesnt make it special.

I'm going to make this simple.

Prodrive has YEARS AND YEARS of experience dealing with Subaru's. They've been running the rally car since before the Impreza was being used. They are the SINGLE most EXPERIENCED Subaru tuner in the world. Hands down.
They wouldn't do something if it wasn't ideal. Hence their "un-ideal exhaust". Prodrive builds their products and packages to maintain OEM like drivability, reliability and quality. TurboXS and Vishnu do not hold themselves to these standards. Before you get in a fit, I'm not trashing either company. In reality I'm saying that they give themselves more leeway in what they do and do not do for tuning. They might make more power, but is the car just as drivable as stock? Likely not. Prodrive's philosophy is far different than the tuners we have in the US.
Granted, the Power Pack isn't for everyone. People that want high quality, drivability and reliability with minor modifications are likely to go for the power pack over the Vishnu kit or the TXS kit.
As for testing, read the whole thread, please. The stage 3 currently running around has thousands of miles on it. Has made trips to Portland, been flogged by magazines and abused by Simon and the rest of Prodrive's staff. Prodrive isn't going to release an overpriced product that doesn't work and hasn't been tested. That is just stupid, on anyones part.
The one week part was the tuners being here. Ever since the car has been flogged daily.
I'm not looking to get into a war with you, but I won't sit here and have you trash a product you know nothing about.

Edit: The UK has several tuners. Graham Goode, Scoobysport, etc. Just to name two. Prodrive isn't an only choice.

Originally posted by Irvine Subaru


I'm going to make this simple.

Prodrive has YEARS AND YEARS of experience dealing with Subaru's. They've been running the rally car since before the Impreza was being used. They are the SINGLE most EXPERIENCED Subaru tuner in the world. Hands down.
They wouldn't do something if it wasn't ideal. Hence their "un-ideal exhaust". Prodrive builds their products and packages to maintain OEM like drivability, reliability and quality. TurboXS and Vishnu do not hold themselves to these standards. Before you get in a fit, I'm not trashing either company. In reality I'm saying that they give themselves more leeway in what they do and do not do for tuning. They might make more power, but is the car just as drivable as stock? Likely not.

What's that smell?

Cheers,
Shiv

Bawahhhahah! Anyway I dont give a rat if 1 prodrive car has been through hell or not- Listen to yourself 1 car!!! There is not one damn bit of rally technology in these packages!! For heavens sake they bought the ECUTEK software from an aftermarket research firm and is now claiming Prodrive engineering. :rolleyes:
Yes both vishnu and TXS are vastly more drivable than stock and prodrive would be pulling a huge pelican out of their bum if they exceeded TXS and vishnu offerings even by a littlebit. Yea Im directly pointing at the reflash ability between shiv and prodrive using ecutek software. Period Nice product (though laughably simple) from a respected rally car prepper who for without a doubt is keeping proirity #1 on the rally events and using their name to make a little cash and spread their presence in the US. I mean come on look what their offering a few lenghts of 2.5" piping and some tune nothing new at all . So again I pose the question whats the fuss about???

Hello,

My name is Scott from Prodrive USA. I am here to offically announce we will be coming out with US spec. Performance Packs for the WRX.

The horsepower figures that Irvine Subaru and Subaru of Gwinett are correct. One thing to consider is one of our main concerns is to make horsepower but we have to make horsepower and keep our cars running to OEM standards and reliabilty. No check engine lights on, no really loud exhaust systems and no hesitations on the power band. A smooth running more powerful car. I have personally driven the car for 11 hours straight (just stopped for gas) through mountains, city traffic and etc. The car is very reliable. All of these test were done before we even considered on releasing the PPP to the public.

Magazines like Motortrend and Super Street have driven the car. And from their response they love it. Keep in mind the same day we tested with Motortrend they had a Techart 550ph AWD 996 out there. So these guys drive some really nice cars. Everyone that has driven the car states its a really good combination between performance and confort.

Its not a 500 horse power monster nor does it run in the 10's in the 1/4 mile. But for what it has exhaust, silicone y-pipe and ECU the car runs strong.

For you in the Southern California area. We have been talking with Ryan at Irvine Subaru. What we are planning is bring our WRX with the stage 3 PPP and give you a ride in the cars. Its easy to say how well our car performs. We want you to find out first hand. Come down get a ride for yourself. Please contact Ryan at Irvine for more information.

As far as showing our dyno charts. We are in the process of making our website. But to do things right it take some time. We will have a temp. site up very soon and we are working on the real site in the meantime.

I figured the dogs would be called out soon and I do appreciate your reply. I have no doubt that your products will be reliable and smooth- Sounds like the same smoothness, reliability, OEM quality that we have been enjoying here for some time. After all its a pretty proven package. Scott really just how simple was it for proven rally pros like yourself to no brain these. I mean obviously this is a minute part of your business and no stressing of brain cells to put even the stage 3 out right? Can we be expecting prodrive tuned cars to be on their way directly backed by subaru and this might just be a little taste and some "testing the waters" for prodrive influence in the US? Anyway hopefully my next subie will come from the dealer with a prodrive package and backed by warrenty

edit:kant spell so goode

Originally posted by MP5
I figured the dogs would be called out soon and I do appretiate your reply. I have no doubt that your products will be reliable and smooth- Sounds like the same smoothness, reliability, OEM quality that we have been enjoying here for some time. After all its a pretty proven package. Scott really just how simple was it for proven rally pros like yourself to no brain these. I mean obviously this is a minute part of your business and no stressing of brain cells to put even the stage 3 out right? Can we be expecting prodrive tuned cars to be on their way directly backed by subaru and this might just be a little taste and some "testing the waters" for prodrive influence in the US? Anyway hopefully my next subie will come from the dealer with a prodrive package and backed by warrenty

unless it has 3 cats, dont count on it

Hello,

I did not do any of the tuning. We had one guy from Ecutek (the guy who broke the code) and one guy from Prodrive UK. Ecuteck made the program to our specs. It like our springs they are produced by Eibach but to our specs. Our wheels are made by OZ, Speedline and Rays Eng. but to our standards. We never tried to hide that we outside source things to be manufactured.

As far as Subaru warranty we have no control. That is up to them. Nor do we imply that Subaru will warranty our products. These PPPs are not coveraged under Subaru warranty. CARB certified we are researching.

Thank you for your interest in our products. Hopefully we will get the car in your area, so you can a ride in it.

Scott

Prodrive has also been building road cars for years. The same road cars that have been praised by the likes of CAR and EVO.

http://www.crossroadsgarage.co.uk/old-pages/aboutus_files/p1+.jpg
http://www.scoobyworld.co.uk/images/uk300%20page%203.gif
http://www.rb5.net/images/rb5-bigoval.jpg

Like I said before, I'm not going to go back and forth with you about this. You have your opinion and I have mine. I've driven the car. Ridden in the car. It impressed me. I'm excited that Prodrive is finally becoming an official presence in this country. Not everyone is going to want Prodrives products, that's a no brainer. Prodrive has a very good name, and I doubt that will be changing any time soon.

Wow - I've never seen anybody go off like that before MP5, and on a thread that was intended to gauge interest on a product?! And then the comment from Shiv was great! Class acts all the way!

So now we have the official word that if you own Vishnu stuff, this product sucks, and if you own the Vishnu company, this product sucks.

Welp, guess my decision is made.

OK OK - it's not what you guys meant, but c'mon! MP5 - you clearly are not in the market for this item, so why bother posting about it in this forum about how you don't like it? And Shiv, it was probably a little out of bounds for Ryan to say that you or TXS don't tune for "OEM reliability and safety" because you both say that all the time, but a simple "I don't' agree that we don't tune for safety" would suffice in this example.

Originally posted by CirrusWRX
Wow - I've never seen anybody go off like that before MP5, and on a thread that was intended to gauge interest on a product?! And then the comment from Shiv was great! Class acts all the way!

So now we have the official word that if you own Vishnu stuff, this product sucks, and if you own the Vishnu company, this product sucks.

Welp, guess my decision is made.

Um huh take it anyway you want I never said this sucked I still dont see what the hype is about. For the record I have prodrive p7s, had the prodrive springs and waited a heck of a long time for the backbox so I have nothing against prodrive and would welcome some innovative high performance items from them, But these PPP are not them- The pipes are nothing Bubba down at the shop couldnt do and as stated before the sourced Ecutek Not even tuned by Prodrive!!! So you rally guys have at it.;) In fact I see very little prodrive here and the guys on the east and west coast are the ones to catch. So please dont take me like that I have nothing against you or Irvine. In fact didnt I buy my springs from yall?!!:lol: Your right I shouldnt have started this mess at all

Cirrus, thanks for ending this madness.

I guess I did go a bit far with what I said.

MP5 - I didn't know you bought springs from us... I'll PM you a question I have for you.

The hype for me is that a well respected company is throwing their hat in the mix. It gives another option. If you prefer I'll start referring to it as the ECUTek/Prodrive Power Pack. ;)

Ryan

Do you have a picture of the up pipe and downpipe?
Will they sell that seperately?
How much?

I for one am looking forward to learning more about the package and having an opportunity to ride in a PPP-eqipped car.The PPP sounds like it will be a great addition to the realm of upgrade options we have for our cars. It also seems quite competitive when compared with Vishnu.

Prodrive Stage 3
---------------------
Turbo-Back Exhaust
Up Pipe
Intercooler Hose
ECU Reflash
Total: $2,500
Claimed 68 whp gain

Vishnu Products
--------------------
Turbo-Back Exhaust $1,350
Up Pipe $310
Intercooler Hoses $160
Remapped ECU $750
Total: $2580 (priced a la carte)

Now granted, you can get a full Vishnu stage 1 for $2500 that has some additional goodies and a claimed 70whp gain. However, the PPP Stage 3 claims 68 whp gain. Seems like we are comparing apples to apples, no? Both seem like great options. Now, it is just a matter of which vendor and path you prefer.

Indeed, these PPPs do 'look' to be competitive with those offered by Vishnu. However, peak horsepower numbers are no way to compare the kits, and until we see dyno plots of horsepower AND torque it's going to be hard to know which is better. Seeing as how they're both using ECUTEK software and are mapping for their own parts, it's basically going to come down to who the better tuner us. The euro guys rave about Prodrive stuff and how great the driveability is, while folks in the US with Vishnu ECUTEK products seem similarly impressed. Honestly, both will very likely provide the consumer with outstanding trouble free performance. But until we see ALL the facts from Prodrive (or Rallyperformance or whomever else is working on this stuff), Vishnu is the only game in town for the buyer who wants to know exactly what he or she is getting.

Before any flaming begins, I have no Vishnu products whatsoever. And I'm not one to ride Shiv's coat-tails in every thread, making him sound like some sort deity. I read lots of threads on power mods, and have since the WRX came out. I honestly didn't think much of Vishnu at first, and still think the Cobb APS kits were the ONLY way to go to guarantee reliable and consistent performance with the Unichip. Thankfully, we now don't have to fork over Cobb money to ensure factory-like drivability out of a modded WRX. My car is bone stock power-wise because I've been waiting first for a solution like ECUTEK, and secondly for several vendors to come out with ECUTEK kits so I can base my decision on a variety of choices. Well, okay, and third because I'm taking care of brakes and suspension at the moment, and don't have the cash for power mods :).

What it comes down to is that I don't understand a lot of these aftermarket companies that launch products without complete information. This is NO fault of Ryan of course, and he is doing the right thing for his company by being the first on the block to offer these kits. But frankly, I won't even consider buying one until I can see real data (think actual dyno plots, and give us your stock car baseline dyno plots too), pictures of everything (still haven't seen the uppipe, right?), and can get someone from Prodrive who developed these kits answering all of the questions (instead of making Ryan email England and get back with us; show some interest UK Prodrive guys! Where the heck is Simon anyway!?). The fact that none of that has happened and they chose to launch the product anyway leaves a bad taste, as TO ME it shows lack of proper planning on their part. Prodrive has a great name and I'm not bashing them; I too have a set of P7s. But for all of the tuners offering ECUTEK staged packages, PLEASE check out Vishnu's website and offer information like that. Only then can REAL comparisons take place.

Phil

Originally posted by MP5

The pipes are nothing Bubba down at the shop couldnt do and as stated before the sourced Ecutek

The whistle goes WHOOO WHOOOO.

(Sorry for gettin on edge, man - my bad)
++++++++++++++++++++++++

All very valid points wrxsvt, but remember why this thread was started - this was to "gauge interest on PPP's" that will be coming over in about a month. That's why there aren't any prices "posted here." Ryan and others have readily admitted that Prodrive has made NO OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMNT yet. This thread began to gauge interest, and if nothing more, it has certainly drawn a lot of attention. I agree who heartedly about the solutions currently offered, and the fact that there is still a lot of mystery surrounding these products. Again, they haven't been officially released by prodrive, as is my understanding.

well you guys should remember that the stock turbo can only do so much, you cant really expect much more then 65-70whp gain. The prodrive parts are already proven to be quality in the UK. The ecutek retuning could be flakey but they had one of the ecutek guys setup the maps. The only thing more you could ask is custom tuning tailored for your car, which I believe Ryan already addressed.

The only thing I'm really interested in seeing is the downpipe design.

please forgive me, but how is this process done? i am very interested in this upgrade, when i order this and have everything fitted, will "irvine subaru" take my existing ECu and just reflash it on the spot or does it take a few days? i'm aware that this pack is made to be used as as 'one' per'se, will minor mods, such as bov's, intercoolers, or even electronics (TT's, Guages) get in the way.....or does it constitute a remap?

besides the piping in the exaust system, how does the pack create that power? increased turbo boost (considering that the PPP is designed in conjunction with the stock turbo)

another thing on my mind, if at a later date after i get the PPP i get a larger turbo, injectors, water pump etc etc....will a reflash be needed?

sorry im a noob to car tuning....

so ryan, i think its safe to say that there is plenty of interest. i don't imagine you will have much of a problem selling these power packs. so to continue with the initial purpose of this thread, i am interested in some of prodrives new products. i hope they have a mountain of information on their new prodrive-usa website, as it appears they will definitely need to answer some questions. thanks for letting us know about this, even if it has backfired a bit.

another thing on my mind, if at a later date after i get the PPP i get a larger turbo, injectors, water pump etc etc....will a reflash be needed?

yes, if you want it to run to its full potential.



I shouldnt do this as its really none of my business, but what the hell do I have to loose.

What's that smell?

Once again Shiv proves how mature he really is....:( :confused:

The prodrive name speaks for itself.... I for one will be there when they bring the car out. :D :cool:

Originally posted by totoherbs

Once again Shiv proves how mature he really is....:( :confused:


Sit in a dyno room for 10 hours and them tell me if your sense of humor and maturity isn't compromised :) Seriously, I was fine with the thread until Ryan accused us for not striving towards OEM levels of drivability and reliability. Not something I like to hear. But in the end, we're happy to let our products and customers speak for themselves.

Cheers,
Shiv

Shiv - I apologized on behalf of Ryan, and Ryan admitted that what he said was "a bit too far"

no hard feelings on either side I hope.

Hello,

I am not going to argue with every person that does not like our products. I am just here to help answer some questions and explain about our products.

One question was what about bigger intercoolers, turbos or other modification.

We are considering it. We just came out with the stage 1 - 3 kits! It takes a lot of testing and development. What we might come out with? Hmm. There are a lot of thing in discussion and no we are ready to announce them.

On that last reply from MP5:

Prodrive personal was there testing and tuning with the person from Ecutek. No he was not a rally tech. We beleive that a rally tech is not the correct person for this job. A rally tech goal is to make power, not worry about how the car performs on the street and in traffic. We had the right person on the job he know his way tuning ECUs.

Again it easy for us to sit here and say how good our products are. We left it up to the experts, please look out the performance reveiw in Motortrend possible April or May issue and the upcoming issue May or June issue of Super Street did a driving evaluation.

If that is not good enough. Get first hand experience. Come out and get a ride in the car. Contact Ryan to find out more info.

Thank you for all of your support and interest. We are excited about the US spec Prodrive Performance Packs. Have a great day!!

Sincerely,
Scott

PS: Ryan the last time I spoke with Simon he had the flu. He may not be checking his e-mails right now because he is sick.

Wow, I read through this and all I can say is that I personally am happy with having another option for aftermarket goodies. Competition will benifit us all and force each tuner to higher and higher standards.

So Ryan, will there be a PPP equiped car down at Irvine subaru? Let us know, I am still anxious to spend my subaru bucks!!

Originally posted by CirrusWRX
Shiv - I apologized on behalf of Ryan, and Ryan admitted that what he said was "a bit too far"

no hard feelings on either side I hope.

No hard feelings at all :)

Cheers,
shiv

Sounds to me like these stages are a whole bunch of ricer mods, common rear muffler ahahahaahh, I mean what happened to cat back or turbo back... I've went a different rout with the ecutek and it sure feels as drivable as stock... common 180 whp was that done on a dyno jet as well??? Of course your car would be more reliable with these stages these stages aint do shlt with performance, by the way do these stages come with altezzas, a bov, sti oil gas cap, well u get the point as well...

Just my opinion but this is not the way to go unless these stages are made for hondas =)

Originally posted by Really awsome guy

Just my opinion but this is not the way to go unless these stages are made for hondas =) '

Wow, what a well thought out and informative post. I'm glad you took the time to completely ignore that fact that what Prodrive's stage 3 kits include things like a downpipe, mid-pipe, up-pipe and muffler. OMG, that's a turbo-back! :rolleyes:
Scoff all you want at their muffler offering, you probably don't know that substantial gains can be had by changing out the muffler in conjunction with other exhaust parts, proven by Shiv and others. Hell, the stock unit is crazily restrictive, with 3 baffles and 4 chambers in it!

Do you even know who Prodrive is? Or that they have a proven track record for performance and reliability? No, what they're offering isn't NEW and revolutionary, but it is quality stuff. You're way off base.

LOL - I thought I was drunk, but it turns out it was just his incoherent English!

:lol:

thanks for the laugh man

edit: since I have some time on my hands, I'll play Engrish Prof. (I'm sure I'll still make mistakes, but I'll try and translate:)
Sounds to me like these stages are a whole bunch of ricer mods, common rear muffler ahahahaahh, I mean what happened to cat back or turbo back... I've went a different rout with the ecutek and it sure feels as drivable as stock...
Translation:
It sounds to me like these stage upgrades are nothing but ricer mods. I scoff at a "common rear muffler" ( whatever the hell that means?! , for what happened to the more common catback or turbo back exhausts that are offered by other tuning companies? I have taken a different approach with the ECUTek and I have found my car drives in a similar fashion to stock.

Cirrus says: A "common" rear muffler? Hmm... do I even need to touch this one? OK - TXS has a muffler, Vishnu has a muffler, HKS has a muffler, Prodrive has a muffler, Joe's Muffler shop has a muffler... I believe what happaned to the "cat back" and "turbo back" are clearly listed in the packages:

Stage Upgrade 2 contains a muffler, and a 3rd cat eliminator, so technically, it is even MORE than a cat back since it eliminates the 3rd cat.

Stage Upgrade 3 contains all of that PLUS an uppipe (eliminating ANOTHER cat) and a downpipe, containing a high-flow cat. Put that all together and you have yourself a turbo back!!!! Amazing what reading can do?! :lol:

You have taken the same approach to tuning by using an ECUTek, as if you would read, PPP's 1-3 all contain an upgraded Prodrive ECU tuned using the ECUTek system-- JUST LIKE YOU!!

common 180 whp was that done on a dyno jet as well??? Of course your car would be more reliable with these stages these stages aint do shlt with performance, by the way do these stages come with altezzas, a bov, sti oil gas cap, well u get the point as well...
Translation:
??????? (I cannot decode the first part). "I believe your car will operate to a great degree of reliability, for I feel these upgrades will not aid in performance. Incidentally, do these upgrades come with other items that do not aid in performance, such as a BOV, an "sti oil gas cap" (that's the cap that covers the "oil gas" container), you understand what I am getting at.

Cirrus says: I think 180whp with a muffler, ECUtek, and IC hoses is a pretty good bet. You think it's impossible? I guess we'll see, since we don't have dyno plots to go off of, but I imagine within the next few weeks we'll see them. And the car should be reliable, as the modifications are relatively minor in nature, and is essentially altering the breathing (via hardware) and ECU commands (via software). That's a pretty reliable combination, and I think 228whp (claimed, of course) is actually a decent increase in performance.

And I'm pretty sure there won't be any altezza tail lights included in this kit, and I'm not sure where my oil gas cap is, but it's probably near my muffler bearings - Cool to know STi makes one - Il'l have to check it out!

:lol:

just messin with you man, and I admit I have WAY too much time on my hands at the moment.

never know about the altezzas...the folks in the UK havnt caught on that they are lame yet :lol:

That's it! I've had it! I'm going to say "What the hack? Grap on my tired!"

Really awsome guy..... Nevermind, your name says it all.....

CirrusWRX thanks for the translation, I was going to read it again to try and figure out what the hell is going on, but then I saw your post.

ha ha ha, forums.

If any of you have any doubt about prodrive's products, you probably dont know much about prodrive. Sure you should see the dyno charts before you buy, but if there is one subaru tuning company that deserves your attention its Prodrive. you can bet they have done their homework before they release a product. The subaru community has held prodrive in high respect and those of you who just DONT KNOW shouldnt say anything until the product hits the streets.

Originally posted by Really awsome guy
Sounds to me like these stages are a whole bunch of ricer mods, common rear muffler ahahahaahh, I mean what happened to cat back or turbo back... I've went a different rout with the ecutek and it sure feels as drivable as stock... common 180 whp was that done on a dyno jet as well??? Of course your car would be more reliable with these stages these stages aint do shlt with performance, by the way do these stages come with altezzas, a bov, sti oil gas cap, well u get the point as well...

Just my opinion but this is not the way to go unless these stages are made for hondas =)


shouldn't your handle be "Really Dumb Troll"? No... we don't get your point.:confused: Now Really Dumb Troll, could you explain the difference between turbo back and downpipe+center pipe+muffler? ... and since Ecutek did the programing for Prodrive... why would anybody think your choosing the "Ecutek route" but not even having a clue about what a turbo back exhaust is.. has any merit?

Well since the PPP will come out soon, I assume alot of people will sell there Prodrive Axle back for the WRX? Well if your one of those owners, PM me! I want to buy one for a good Price. Hopefully I can get the one that says Prodrive on top. If no one will sell then maybe I'll have to save up for the PPP Package.

Jason

Hi All

Boy, you guys love to have fun...

OK!

EcuTek make software, it's very good software, we use it.

EcuTek DO NOT do Prodrive calibration work - Prodrive do

If you think engine calibration is simple - carry on, I would imagine walking on water is one of your other talents

Shiv (and some other tuners) do a good job, knocking them is silly, childish and pointless. Tuners that knock Prodrive (or other tuners) are probobly not very good at what they do - Knocking your competiters is a classic way of taking the heat off your own shortcomings

The testing we do on the car is extensive, there may only be 2 US cars running around but in the UK we have dozens both at Prodrive and Subaru UK

The products we sell are developed as kits, so we sell them as kits. As has been said, if these kits do not meet expectation feel free to scream loud and long. To date we have not sold parts individualy, this is beccause we cannot possobly test our parts with every possible combination that they may be fitted with.

We have no interest in selling bits so idiots can wreck their cars then blame us because their car is now appaling or blows up!

Might I also suggest some of you calm down, take a chill pill and count to 10 before pressing the "send" key. Personaly I try not to post or write anything that I would not say to a person face to face.

Those of you that know me, know I can be a little direct at times :)

Cheers for now, lets try and keep things in perspective...

Simon

well put Simon!

Thanks Simon.

Hopefully what he said cleared up a bit of this.

Ryan

Originally posted by PhreeZe
Well since the PPP will come out soon, I assume alot of people will sell there Prodrive Axle back for the WRX? Well if your one of those owners, PM me! I want to buy one for a good Price. Hopefully I can get the one that says Prodrive on top. If no one will sell then maybe I'll have to save up for the PPP Package.

Jason

I'm already thinking about it... so mine could be out there soon. :)

Since I am already running no cats and have a good exhaust, could I just get a intercooler and re flash?

Ryan, Simon, and/or Scott,

For those that upgrade beyond PPP3 (bigger turbo, intercooler, injectors, fuel pump)... are there Prodrive options available with respect to the reflash of the ECU?

Thanks,
Paul

The ECU is specific to the kit and that programming will not be offered seperately or for use with different components.

Nothing is yet released beyond stage 3. I will inquire if anything is planned.

Originally posted by Irvine Subaru
The ECU is specific to the kit and that programming will not be offered seperately or for use with different components.

Nothing is yet released beyond stage 3. I will inquire if anything is planned.

had to ask. ;)

Originally posted by pjcoregon


had to ask. ;)

Insert something funny about pjcoregon tripleposting here

http://www.business2000.ie/images/case_studies_6th/masterfoods/express.jpg

RICER MOD!!!!!!

Really Awesome Guy goes bye bye..... cya!

Jamie

The Cirrus goes WHOOOOOO (thanks Jamie!)

Originally posted by Subie Gal
Really Awesome Guy goes bye bye..... cya!

Jamie

Hmm I dont know what to think of this. What all goes into a ban? I mean this guy is a total nerd and deserved something but a total ban? Does that mean he cant come back? Have I been close to getting the boot at times? Im scared:eek: Do people get warnings or just an IP ban that they cant talk on NASIOC anymore?

Originally posted by Simon Lines
Might I also suggest some of you calm down, take a chill pill and count to 10 before pressing the "send" key. Personaly I try not to post or write anything that I would not say to a person face to face.
Simon

It's a bummer that this can't be made a sticky...it's something I follow religiously, and I think that it would keep flame wars and other such stuff down.

I've been watching this thread with interest. Prodrive has yet to release a product that isn't excellent. I expect no less from the PPP. Too bad Simon and the lads can't work something out with SOA that would make the setup all legal and such. A tuner is one thing, Prodrive would seem to be something else altogether.

Kevin

Originally posted by I ROBOT


Insert something funny about pjcoregon tripleposting here

crap... sometimes I hate the touch pad on my laptop... will now utilze the delete box to fix that now. Thank You "U Robot". ;)

Originally posted by Subie Gal
Really Awesome Guy goes bye bye..... cya!

Jamie

That makes for a Really Awesome Ban... hate trolls.

Hello Paul,

Stage 4 and beyond are being looked into. We are not ready to release any information on those yet.

Thanks,
Scott

Originally posted by prodriveusa
Hello Paul,

Stage 4 and beyond are being looked into. We are not ready to release any information on those yet.

Thanks,
Scott

Sweet... another Prodrive carrot hanging just out-of-reach... reminding me that Prodrive and Ryan will slowly manage to relieve me of all my spare cash. :)

I'm in for PPP 3.

Hooooray! This is what I've been waiting for. :D

Question 1: How avaliable will the PPP be? I'm not ready to buy it yet...no $$$ right now. Will there be a steady flow of PPPs from England? Lets say I order my PPP in June, will I have to wait months for it to come it?

Question 2: I'm in NY...having Irvine install my PPP isn't really an option. Will there be Prodrive-approved installers in different states?

Question 3: Now what to do with my WR Sport muffler?

Thanks!

Edvig

Good to see Simon is alive and well, and really awesome guy is banned.

But anyway, in addition to Edvig's questions, when will more information be available about these kits (dyno plots, pics, etc.)? Just a timeframe would be fine, I won't hold you to a specific date :). I'm not griping, just anxious.

Thanks,

Phil

Originally posted by gtguy
I've been watching this thread with interest. Prodrive has yet to release a product that isn't excellent. I expect no less from the PPP. Too bad Simon and the lads can't work something out with SOA that would make the setup all legal and such. A tuner is one thing, Prodrive would seem to be something else altogether.

Kevin
It would be totally cool if NA immediately gets the same warranty deal the UK currently has. However realistically I'm thinking Prodrive will need to get further along with emission certifications before SOA could even consider further intergration.
For now they are a tuner, hopefully in the near future "selected" STI and Prodrive items will be warratied when installed at a Subaru dealership. TRD has been doing it for many years, Honda-Mugen was mostly dressup items, and off the top of my head I believe Nissan and Madza are setting up programs.

Also, the other day for the first time I saw one of those new factory AMG Mercedes. The only emblems on the back was the tri-star and the word AMG.

I really doubt it for performance, but I wouldnt be surprised to see some sort of dress-up prodrive type edition...with wheels and some bodykit or something..

but I didnt expect to see a 2.5L STi either...so anything can happen...

We should have good availability of the stages.

You don't want to drive to see us. :(;) Totally understandable. The ECU will be on an exchange basis and overnight delivery will be available (2day turn around - 1day to me and 1day to you).
I don't know if Prodrive has any authorized installers in your area, however your favorite shop can likely do the install fine.
Keep the muffler and hang it on your wall. It's too pretty to just get rid of.;) Just kidding. I'm sure private for sale will eat it up.

wrxsvt - I'll get what I can. Will contact Prodrive today.

I was out of the office yesterday so will be answering any e-mail today.

Ryan

Might Prodrive do work at their place in Ann Arbor MI? That would be convenient.

hey ryan as soon as i get my refund i will definetly make a stop by there =) would it be possible to order the PPP stage 2 online and pick it up at irvine? another question i have is about the muffler in the PPP, what is the diameter and how loud is it?

Rattler,

Prodrive's motorsport facility may be able to, but you'd have to contact them directly. They are not the same as the roadcar devision.

hyp... we'd prefer you pre-ordered via the website. Easier for us to track. Just make a note that you're going to pick it up. I'll see what I can do about the muffler specs.

Ryan

p.s. Look for the event info. to go up today/tomorrow.

Hello,

We will have a temp website up by the end of this week or sometime next week. There will be a dyno section on our site hopefully in 2 weeks.

Estimated ETA on PPP kits:

Stage 1 in 60 days.

Stage 2 and 3 90 days.

Thanks,
Scott

actually, the site is working, but the www link on the prodrive-usa user is not entered correctly. the site works as www.prodrive-usa.com. can't wait to see the down pipe and up pipe.
spike

...is CARB certification under consideration?

Ryan,

Emailed you.

Hey guys,

I'll be heading out of the office in a bit. Someone running a red light thought my room mates car looked like a good target, so... we're sharing 1 car. I'm going to answer all of your e-mails from home. Sorry for the delay.

Ryan

Hey Guys

Little bit more info for you,

CARB is under consideration, certainly for Stage 1, we'll have to wait and see for other stages.

I have been looking at your comments re oval tip muffler / round tip muffler. I think one of the things you need to understand about Prodrive is that we don't always do things just because they make best sense from a money making point of view. The ethos of Prodrive is engineering integrity and offering the best product, not making the most possible money in the shortest possible time.

The oval tip muffler (on sale in the US for the last 3 or 4 years) is designed to allow (relatively) low cost buy-in to the Prodrive brand, is was never envisaged that it would be part of a PPP. In the UK there is a definitive split between a "simple" muffler and a full PPP - hence the oval tip and round tip, oval for the stand alone part, round for the PPP.

However, we now have a situation in the US were the oval has been on sale for some time (with positive feedback - thank you) and we are now launching the PPP's with their round tail mufflers. Now I can understand that some users are concerned that they only bought the oval muffler because the PPP was not available and now they are faced with having to purchase another muffler with the PPP.

Well, as has already been said the PPP's are designed and sold as complete kits - not tested with or designed to work with other parts, well we have done some testing with the oval tail and as we surmised it is not compatible with the higher stages of tune that will be offered in the US. But, it can be made to work with stage 1 and may be ok with stage 2. I will be coming over in a couple of weeks to get together with Scott and the other Prodrive-USA guys to finalise the 3 stages of PPP ready for release and this is one of the issues we will look at.

It is hoped that we can offer stage 1 to existing oval tailpipe owners thereby avoiding the need to purchase another muffler. It remains to be seen if this is possible for stage 2. I can tell you that it is NOT possible for stage 3 which will remain on the round tailpipe muffler.

Please understand that although it is my wish to allow PPP fitting with stage 1 and 2, it HAS NOT been tested yet and may not be possible. I have also had e-mails regarding "other" parts already fitted. I have to say that we will not fit a stage 2 or 3 PPP with ANY type of induction kit fitted, a lot of these kits do NOT make power because they are "free-flowing" BUT because they confuse the MAF and result in a lean AFR, some are lean enough to melt a piston all by themselves... Coupled with a PPP which are calibrated slightly leaner for better performance and response these induction kits / free flow kits can easily melt a piston because of very lean AFR's.

TO repeat the point, we will never approve fitting a stage 2 or above PPP with an induction kit that has not been approved for use with it (currently that's NONE) this is for your protection as well as our's (lean AFR = blown engine = Prodrive's fault...) When we have a product that safely improves the std induction (and yes, we are working on it) we will release and approve it for use with the PPP's

I have also been asked about "stage 4" or compatibility with higher states of tune i.e. new turbo's, bigger intercoolers and other changes. At present we are not offering custom tunes or a stage 4, 5, 6, etc. However, it has always been our intention to go beyond stage 3, what that consists of (and when it arrives) you'll have to wait and see.

Cheers all

Simon

Simon, thanks for the info and clarification on the PPP offerings. Also thanks for including all us WR Sport Muffler owners into the first stages of the PPP.

Should we assume that the PPP with the oval muffler will be down a few HP compared to the round tip muffler?

Can you give us a bit more detail on the flow and gains of the oval muffler? (its been said on this thread that this muffler doesn't flow much better than the stock muffler and its purely for acoustical benefits. I think that most were under the impression that the WR Sport muffler was a pretty free flowing unit, so we were surprised to hear this.)

Hey guys,

All the details for the ride are here. (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=319113)

The event is going to be Feb. 27th at 6pm. If you're in SoCal please come by.

Ryan

argh i just spent forever wading thru the arguments and couldn't find what i was looking for....

does ne1 know how loud this new round-tip prodrive exhaust is? one of the reasons why i bought my WR sport from irvine is because i wanted good sound with minimal volume (noise=cops)...

Originally posted by Simon Lines
CARB is under consideration, certainly for Stage 1, we'll have to wait and see for other stages.

Hi, Simon.

CARB would be FANTASTIC. I would love more grunt, but can't justify ruining the emissions of a LEV car that already makes decent power. Make any of these stages CARB and it's a no-brainer purchase.

As an aside, why not include a high-quality, subtle Prodrive badge for the rear of the car with the kits? It might add $10 to the price, but I think a lot of customers would be interested, and it would be free advertising for you. :)

Originally posted by PhreeZe
Well since the PPP will come out soon, I assume alot of people will sell there Prodrive Axle back for the WRX? Well if your one of those owners, PM me! I want to buy one for a good Price.


yeah...me too! :D

I'll see if I can get a soundclip on Thurs.

Ryan

or something subtle decal wise (just the prodrive name logo) for the door/fender.

Originally posted by LoveThatWeasel


Hi, Simon.

CARB would be FANTASTIC. I would love more grunt, but can't justify ruining the emissions of a LEV car that already makes decent power. Make any of these stages CARB and it's a no-brainer purchase.

As an aside, why not include a high-quality, subtle Prodrive badge for the rear of the car with the kits? It might add $10 to the price, but I think a lot of customers would be interested, and it would be free advertising for you. :)

Originally posted by Irvine Subaru
I'll see if I can get a soundclip on Thurs.

Ryan

Yeah please get us a sound clip. I can't make it thursday :( . Thanks alot Ryan!

Originally posted by Irvine Subaru
I'll see if I can get a soundclip on Thurs.

Ryan

any chance of a decibel meter reading as well?

I'll see what I can do. I don't have a decibel reader, but I know GReddy does. Maybe they'll let me borrow it. We'll see.

We will be doing this event on a Sunday for those of you that can't make it Thurs.

Ryan

OK,

Now you guys have gotten my interest. I have delayed and comtemplated other ECU methods and could not bring myself to do a piggyback or flash from someone I do not know well.

Just to make things interesting, do any of your stages pass vehicle emission tests (I am in a part of NM that does a quick sniff), or, can the system be changed back? I realize that since you are changing the OEM cpu this is probably not possible. I would even consider buying a new computer/chip if needed to do this.

Thanks for bringing your stuff to the US!!!

Originally posted by Simon Lines
...
It is hoped that we can offer stage 1 to existing oval tailpipe owners thereby avoiding the need to purchase another muffler. ...

Cheers all

Simon

I ultimately chose the oval-tip muffler because of its understated volume levels compared to other aftermarket mufflers available. Assuming the Prodrive round-tip muffler is significantly louder than the oval-tip, a tradeoff of a few HP to retain the oval muffler and its volume levels would make the stage 1 a worthwhile purchase to me, and probably many others as well. However, if most of the gains from the stage 1 kit are negated by the more restrictive muffler, that would obviously be a different story.

Please keep us posted on these discussions. It would be really easy for Prodrive to outright dismiss the possibility of using the oval-tip in order to secure more $$. Instead, you are listening to your existing customers to keep them satisfied, and this alone makes me more likely to purchase the stage 1 kit regardless of whether my current muffler will work.

Originally posted by Simon Lines

It is hoped that we can offer stage 1 to existing oval tailpipe owners thereby avoiding the need to purchase another muffler. It remains to be seen if this is possible for stage 2. I can tell you that it is NOT possible for stage 3 which will remain on the round tailpipe muffler.


Simon,

Thanks for the clarification. Ideally, Prodrive would be able to work a Stage 2 with the WR Sport muffler, as that is the product I am most interested in (considering the fact that I love my back-box). I'd take a few HP loss. And I definitely appreciate you looking out for us 'early adopters.'

Any chance you'll be the mysterious 'English Guest' at Irvine on March 9th?

Cheers,
Grant

i'm hoping to make it on the 27th :) anyway...

struts. :) for less than a mint? yes? struts? sti struts are retarded expensive... that's bad :)

so prodrive... struts to mate with your springs? ppp's are good and all, but struts would put a smile on my face :D ones that aren't horrifically expensive?

hey prodrive! great stuff...so where are my struts? :D

about the drama previously: blah, silliness.

hasn't prodrive put out PPP's in the UK for previous wrx's? looks like we're making a LITTLE progress.

p.s. STRUTS!!!!!!! hehehe:devil:

do the three stages share the same map?

Hello,

Just to answer some of your questions:

1. We are researching (50 state) CARB certification on the PPP.
2. Simon will be here for the ride event at Irvine on 3-9.
3. Using oval tip mufflers with PPP, we will be finalizing this when Simon arrives in the US.

Thanks,
Scott

Originally posted by krillz
do the three stages share the same map?

They are different maps for each stage.

Originally posted by prodriveusa
Hello,

Just to answer some of your questions:

1. We are researching (50 state) CARB certification on the PPP.


That's really good news, Scott. Please keep us up to date on this.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=3401054#post3401054

There is the link to the ride event. March 9th. 12pm.

Ryan

Hope this isn't a thread hijack but there was a guy on Nasioc a day or so ago who said Prodrive is sourcing their mufflers through a company called "Scorpion" in the U.S.

Can anybody from Prodrive verify that? Mainly curiousity on my part... :)


That's weird... thread went POOF... huh...:confused:

Whoa - that's bizarre - the disappearing thread trick! (I saw it too, and didn't heed much attention to it ;) )

Went poof?

A timetable or prediction of stage 3 for the 04WRX would be nice to know.

This is Simon replying under Irvine's name...

Hi Guys

OK, if the 04MY is the same (mechanically) as the 03MY there is no real problem. As soon as we see and car and test the 03MY kit we can start shipping. But if there is a difference then we will have to change the callibration to cope.

So to your Q - I don't know, it will depend on the spec of the car

Cheers

Simon

Simon, thanks for the reply. I expected that you would not really know until after they started to appear here and you would need some time to test them. I was just trying to raise the question so that you can publish the answer when you do know.

Keep up the good work and hopefully my San Remo Red 04WRX will be running a stage 3 for June's Pacific Forest Rally.

Originally posted by Irvine Subaru
Went poof?

LOL... Yeah... vanished without a trace. Pretty bizarre actually... heh..

(editing self out of here, because my question was answered on a page i accidentally sklipped -- apologies to all for wasted space)

Bump.

Any updates from the ride and drive that was supposed to happen on the 9th??

boxman <---- interested in the whole sordid affair ;)

Originally posted by The real boxman
Bump.

Any updates from the ride and drive that was supposed to happen on the 9th??

boxman <---- interested in the whole sordid affair ;)

Hey boxman. There is a large thread over in the Southern California Chapter forum. Mattjk posted a lot of great pictures over there too.

I thought the prodrive car was awsome. The car made awsome power even with three people in the car and the AC on. The handling was great too. Simon said all they had were 18x8 wheels with so3 tires, prodrive springs, and a "custom alignment".

Thanks to Ryan, Simon and everyone at Prodrive and Irvine Subaru for making this happen!

Thanks for the info.

boxman

Question for Prodrive: who all will be selling the power packs? Irvine exclusively? I'm inquiring about some East coast representation. As for the pics, I was hoping to see that downpipe. Nice back box though.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=319113

That's a direct link to the thread. There are pics and a sound clip on one of the pages.

We aren't the only Prodrive dealer in the US, however we are working heavily with them to promote and develop this kit. If Simon makes it in here soon I'll have him post again.

Ryan

Originally posted by Irvine Subaru

We aren't the only Prodrive dealer in the US, however we are working heavily with them to promote and develop this kit. If Simon makes it in here soon I'll have him post again.

Ryan

that's cool. i was just hoping to have something like what you guys did on the west coast, happen over this way. i have a lot of interest in the stage 3, but i'd like to feel it 1st before supplanting my current setup. i have no qualms buying from you guys though.

Originally posted by Irvine Subaru
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=319113

That's a direct link to the thread. There are pics and a sound clip on one of the pages.

We aren't the only Prodrive dealer in the US, however we are working heavily with them to promote and develop this kit. If Simon makes it in here soon I'll have him post again.

Ryan

Ryan,

There is no pic of the down pipe in that link. Please provide a pic. Prodrive is a good company and this would be a great option for most wrx owners. But the quality of the WRsport exhaust is no ware near Vishnu's or TXS's. I should know I installed more then I can count. I hope the PPP exhaust and other parts are of better quality. Witch WRsports rear section; I would like to say is not up to oem standards like the stock axle back.

But hey options are like rear ends everyone has one.
That's just mine.

Originally posted by WRBLUEWAGON


Ryan,

Witch WRsports rear section; I would like to say is not up to oem standards like the stock axle back.


Then the quality of the Prodrive WR Sport exhausts must have plummeted precipitously in the year since I purchased mine. That muffler was lighter, and of immensely better quality than the OE muffler. It fit the same, and the tip extended farther out than OE, which also looked very nice. It had a very European, AMG-toned look.

Has the quality of Prodrive mufflers fallen off? That would be surprising.

Kevin

Originally posted by gtguy


Then the quality of the Prodrive WR Sport exhausts must have plummeted precipitously in the year since I purchased mine. That muffler was lighter, and of immensely better quality than the OE muffler. It fit the same, and the tip extended farther out than OE, which also looked very nice. It had a very European, AMG-toned look.

Has the quality of Prodrive mufflers fallen off? That would be surprising.

Kevin When I got mine a few months back it is exactly how you speak... Very, very nice and has worked well and lasted from the OBS and now to the WRX.

Thanks - Jon

Originally posted by gtguy


Then the quality of the Prodrive WR Sport exhausts must have plummeted precipitously in the year since I purchased mine.
Has the quality of Prodrive mufflers fallen off? That would be surprising.
Kevin
I can't speak to the comparison of older Prodrive vs. Newer Prodrive, but I have to agree with Kevin on this one. I received my WR Sport axle-back in October of 2002 and it was great! Ok, some of the welds looked a little brown, and I am getting some spots of rust on the tailpipe but it's been through about 10 snowfalls with the requisite amounts of road salt needed in the Midwest, so it's not unexpected. Nothing a little polish won't fix. Fit is perfect, and overall quality and sound is great.

The prodrive wrsport axleback I got is great, perfect fitment and sound. Does scorpion make the PPP muffler? If they do then it should be high quality like the wrsport piece.

I have had mine sicne last June. Frankly, they can hang it in the Gugenhiem when I am done with it. Its a very nice piece of work. I had a Borla on it before that for comparison.

I have the Scorpion axle-back, which is identical to the Prodrive/WRSport. The unit is lighter than stock, more straight thru than stock, more durable than stock (Stainless steel), and nicer looking than stock!! Not to mention than it helps the car sound better than with the stock muffler.

The quality of the Prodrive muffler is impeccable...no matter that the weld points are a little brown..it adds character :D

I'd pick this muffler over the stock muffler any day!

The old Prodrive and new PPP muffler look identical from the outside, except for a different tip


http://www.pbase.com/image/13974026.jpg
OLD

http://www.pbase.com/image/13974027.jpg
NEW

as for the interior....who knows (but I assume they are the same, as the can and the inlet point looks the same)

you be the judge....& yes, both mufflers are manufactured by Scorpion UK

Originally posted by SoLiDbReAkZ
The quality of the Prodrive muffler is impeccible...no matter that the weld points are a little brown..it adds character :D

That, and they're UNDER THE CAR WHERE NOBODY WILL EVER SEE THEM. :rolleyes: :lol:

...we now return you to the original topic before we got off on this tangent...:p

Originally posted by mlambert
The prodrive wrsport axleback I got is great, perfect fitment and sound. Does scorpion make the PPP muffler? If they do then it should be high quality like the wrsport piece.


i am gonna have to agree with you. i had the Prodrive back box on before i had the Vishnu turbo back. i thought the quality of the Prodrive muffler was excellent and it sounded awesome. my non-sig Vishnu is rusting badly at the joints where each piece mates up. i was a little disappointed to see that. i am going to be selling the Vishnu for the PPP as soon as they are readily available, if for nothing more than to try something different. i have a feeling the quality will be A+ too.

Originally posted by gtguy


Then the quality of the Prodrive WR Sport exhausts must have plummeted precipitously in the year since I purchased mine. That muffler was lighter, and of immensely better quality than the OE muffler. It fit the same, and the tip extended farther out than OE, which also looked very nice. It had a very European, AMG-toned look.

Has the quality of Prodrive mufflers fallen off? That would be surprising.

Kevin ,

I don't feel the same way. Vishnu's is truly better welds and piping is flawless. Unlike Prodrive. But hey I think the world of Prodrive as a whole. Just not impressed with the muffler. (as long as it does not fall of and rust out in 5 years it should be fine for most people) Yet again not trying to pick a fight or dis a product just my rear end speaking again.

Oh the last one I installed was about a mounth ago for a nice guy by the name of Won.

Eric

Originally posted by phillywrx



i am gonna have to agree with you. i had the Prodrive back box on before i had the Vishnu turbo back. i thought the quality of the Prodrive muffler was excellent and it sounded awesome. my non-sig Vishnu is rusting badly at the joints where each piece mates up. i was a little disappointed to see that. i am going to be selling the Vishnu for the PPP as soon as they are readily available, if for nothing more than to try something different. i have a feeling the quality will be A+ too.

Hey I'll take that off your hands if you want. And I will do the switch a rew for you.

Eric

Originally posted by WRBLUEWAGON


Hey I'll take that off your hands if you want. And I will do the switch a rew for you.

Eric

cool. that was easy. it might be a while til they're in stock. at least now i know the swap will get done right. :)

Originally posted by phillywrx


cool. that was easy. it might be a while til they're in stock. at least now i know the swap will get done right. :) ,

Ok:D

Bummer. The oval tip has much more style than the round tip.

Kevin

any word about the various stages and passing emissions and carb ceritfication especially pertaining to CA?

Originally posted by gtguy
Bummer. The oval tip has much more style than the round tip.

Kevin

Kev,

Just so you know, I got a ride in a Stage 2 car with the oval tip muffler at this event, rather than the round tip, and the car was still amazing. Virtually no lag, significantly more top end, and it felt like a dream. Seemed like an NA car.

While Stage 3 might not be an option with the oval tip, the guys from Prodrive weren't balking at a Stage 2, which is exactly what I want (smog Nazi's in CA). So, depending on your preferences, keeping the WR Sport muffler might be an option.

Cheers,
Grant

Is there final word from ProDrive on what, if anything, that they're going to do about current owners of the oval tip axel back? IIRC they were not too sure that they were going to try to work them into the PPP lineup at any stage.

boxman

i quickly scanned through all the posts in this thread, so i apologize ahead of time if i'm re-posting this question:

i know that prodrive is working on getting the pp's carb legal in 50 states, but what is the likely hood of the stage 2 actually becoming legal in ca?

thanks
greg

Technically Stage 2 & 3 are not legal anywhere since it is illegal by Federal law to remove a catalytic converter that is functioning and under 7 years old. You will especially NEVER see CARB legal on 2 & 3.

Originally posted by Rocket Wagon
Technically Stage 2 & 3 are not legal anywhere since it is illegal by Federal law to remove a catalytic converter that is functioning and under 7 years old. You will especially NEVER see CARB legal on 2 & 3.

this may seem like a stupid question, but what's the chances of being caught for not having a cat..? i'm sure that just by looking under the car, it is evident that the cat is missing... or are there 2 cats? and if the car gets a smog check, this setup (s2 or s3) won't pass, correct?
thanks
greg

Whether it passes smog is irrelevant. Your question was what are the chances of CARB legality for stage 2 & 3. Well... zip. As soon as they are presented with a product that deletes a cat they will say no whether it passes or not. You can always get the stage 2 and pop your old cat on for emissions testing. Also, the WRX has 3 cats, uppipe, downpipe, exhaust. Stage 2 deletes 1 and stage 3 deletes 2 of them.

Originally posted by The real boxman
Is there final word from ProDrive on what, if anything, that they're going to do about current owners of the oval tip axel back? IIRC they were not too sure that they were going to try to work them into the PPP lineup at any stage.No definite 'Yes' or 'No' on this on Sunday. They seemed amenable to using the oval tip on Stages 1 and 2, but seemed less happy doing it with the Stage 3. But, like I said, no firm word yet.

Cheers,
Grant

Originally posted by Rocket Wagon
Whether it passes smog is irrelevant. Your question was what are the chances of CARB legality for stage 2 & 3. Well... zip. As soon as they are presented with a product that deletes a cat they will say no whether it passes or not. You can always get the stage 2 and pop your old cat on for emissions testing. Also, the WRX has 3 cats, uppipe, downpipe, exhaust. Stage 2 deletes 1 and stage 3 deletes 2 of them.

so, and please bare with me on this subject, if i install stage 2 and need to smog the car, i should (in theory... that is if the pipes are interchangeable) be able to switch back to the stock center pipe and pass the test. however, on the other hand, with the catless center pipe installed, if i get pulled over by the cops for some reason and they decide to peek under the car, they can ticket me for not having the cat... which means big $$$.
thanks for the info
greg

No sweat. If you did have stage 2/3, whatever, whether you put all of the cats back on may or may not help since the computer is getting a healthy dose of tuning too. It also doesn't change that since the parts aren't CARB legal, neither is your car. So if they notice something (exhaust, intercooler piping) and you can't provide the paperwork...sorry.

Originally posted by Rocket Wagon
No sweat. If you did have stage 2/3, whatever, whether you put all of the cats back on may or may not help since the computer is getting a healthy dose of tuning too. It also doesn't change that since the parts aren't CARB legal, neither is your car. So if they notice something (exhaust, intercooler piping) and you can't provide the paperwork...sorry.

Ok, where to start... I'd say first lets be more precise: stage 2 will replace the last OEM cat with a pipe (removing one of three cats), stage 3 will remove all three OEM cats and puts one high-flow cat at the downpipe. Both of which I agree will be no-no's in CARB eyes/nose/etc.
Stage 2 seems to be the easiest to interchange back to stock for smog purposes. You think the reflash of the ECU working with a different IC hose and the stock exhaust will not pass smog? I'd say it would have a better chance than a stage 3...
Stage 3 is more difficult to get back to stock since that up-pipe is no easy task. I actually was thinking about this: if one has a stage 3 reflash running in a car that has the stock turbo back exhaust (and the catless uppipe) to try to pass smog, will it run ok and will it have any chance of passing smog? I'd really hate to get a reflash back to stock to pass smog- but that is a possibility.
Thoughts??? Or lets not worry about this for another 3 to 4 years?

PPP stage3 would probably pass smog if the cat in the downpipe is high quality. Visual inspection == fail, carb cert == no chance in hell, pass smog and be enviro-friendly == most likely.

These really arnt new issues and dont need to be rehashed here, its the same if you go with any aftermarket turboback or swap out the uppipe. Its all illegal and for 'offroad use only'.

I must be missing the timeframe somewhere in the pages I've read. When are these kits available?

The time frame was listed a few pages back:

Estimated ETA on PPP kits:

Stage 1 in 60 days.

Stage 2 and 3 90 days.

This was posted on February 20th.

Originally posted by mlambert

These really arnt new issues and dont need to be rehashed here, its the same if you go with any aftermarket turboback or swap out the uppipe. Its all illegal and for 'offroad use only'.

well, it helped me out.
greg

Originally posted by Schlad

Thoughts??? Or lets not worry about this for another 3 to 4 years?

I don't get it. Do you know something we don't, or is this the timeframe for you to have saved up enough for your 360 Modena? :lol:

Originally posted by gargleblaster


I don't get it. Do you know something we don't, or is this the timeframe for you to have saved up enough for your 360 Modena? :lol:

No no no... since the WRX is a LEV vehicle, we don't have to smog it for 3 to 4 years (3 if you bought a 2002, and 4 if you bought a 2003 model) (ie. 4 years from purchase).

I know this stuff has been rehashed before. People who have seen this smog discussion are probably sick of reading about it again. But I thought it was pertinent since this thread is asking whether there are people interested in the PPP's. And a fairly major concern is how the potential owner will deal with smog issues...(ugh, especially in the state of CA)

LOL I think when I can afford a 360, I'm not going to be taking any cats out of it...

Woah, I missed a lot in this thread. Sorry about that.

I will get the final work on the oval tip muffler being used for the stage 1 and 2 kits shortly. As soon as I have the information I'll get it to you.

The mufflers are made by Scorpion, however don't confuse them with Scorpions own aftermarket systems. Scorpion does much OEM work (a lot of people don't know that) and manufacture two different quality systems. One to aftermarket spec and one to OEM spec (for the various OEMs, obviously). All the exhausts that are made for Prodrive are made to OEM spec, which is higher quality materials, longer life, etc.

We're still about 30 days out on the kits. Container is packed, however I don't know exactly where it is.

360 - I'll take 2. ;)

Ryan

Originally posted by Irvine Subaru
We're still about 30 days out on the kits. Container is packed, however I don't know exactly where it is.

Ryan

What's in the first container... stage 1 only, 1 & 2, or all 3 ?

Ryan,

How sold out would you say the items on the container are?

P.S. In CA you get 5 years on a new car before smog. What is trying to be said above is based on if you bought a 2002, you probably only got 3 years left (but as much as 4 considering how late 2002's were still sold).

Originally posted by Petrie


What's in the first container... stage 1 only, 1 & 2, or all 3 ?

If you look a couple posts up that was posted by CirrusWRX and if he's correct, then only stage 1 is in the first container???

What would you do with two 360's!?!? I'll have to use that one when the wife says we need four seats! :lol:

Originally posted by Irvine Subaru
Woah, I missed a lot in this thread. Sorry about that.

I will get the final work on the oval tip muffler being used for the stage 1 and 2 kits shortly. As soon as I have the information I'll get it to you.

(snip)

Ryan

That'll be good news to get 'cause I'm not buying till I know....

boxman

Originally posted by Schlad

I know this stuff has been rehashed before. People who have seen this smog discussion are probably sick of reading about it again. But I thought it was pertinent since this thread is asking whether there are people interested in the PPP's. And a fairly major concern is how the potential owner will deal with smog issues...(ugh, especially in the state of CA)



This is my concern as I'm up for a stage 3. No problem for the next 3 years, but after that is another story.

SOA backing would also be a big factor in my decision.

IF any of you already having the oval tip Prodrive muffler and will obtain the Perf Pack but planning to keep your oval tip, I am interested in just the roundtip muffler that's part of the perf pack. I'll buy it for the cost of the the standalone oval tip muffler (~380).
Thanks,
-H

stll saving...... i shall have my stage 2! anyone want to give away an old GDA STOCK ECU? *thinking* i might need that to replace my prodrive ECU when it comes time to smog....:devil:

Just a bump to see if there are any updates - like pics of the uppipe/downpipe, or any further details that have not already been divulged.

I've pre-ordered by stage 2, so obviously, I'm anxious, but i also understand the time frame is still another 1 1/2 months or more away.

bumpity bump

This wait is gonna be the death of me. I sold everything from my TXS Stage 3 Kit and already removed it. I have the Stage 3 PPP on order. That's a long time to ride around in this dog.

I don't know if the Moderators have this information but I would be interested to know just how many people are subscribed to this thread.

I'm waiting on dyno charts, MY04 feedback, and solid stage 3 delivery times.

how much?

Originally posted by gokou006
how much?

how much what?
:confused:

Any difinitive word from Simon, Prodrive USA, or Ryan about the California smog legality of each stage?

Any dyno charts available????

Come back - Simon, SPI, Prodrive, anybody!??! It's been a few weeks since we last heard, and just a bump to see if there is any new info.

Originally posted by CirrusWRX
Come back - Simon, SPI, Prodrive, anybody!??! It's been a few weeks since we last heard, and just a bump to see if there is any new info.

Yes, info please. Don't keep me hanging. I sold my TXS Stage 3 last week and want information to console me over the next couple months while driving my stock WRX.:(

Hey guys,

I'm not trying to ignore this, promise.

I've got really little to report right this second, however do have a phone meeting with Prodrive US later today. As soon as that is over I will run back with all the info I can beat out of them.
Here is the bit I know now and know I can talk about.

Dyno Charts - They exist, just waiting on them to be put up. Another thing to harass Scott about.

Containers - Should have all 3 kits coming at the same time.

How sold out? Not sure. Will find out.

What would I do with 2 360's? That should be obvious. Race one and drive the other on weekdays. :):D

Ryan

i don't know if this thread is still alive, but i'll post my question anyways (if it's dead it's all good, i'll go to irvine subaru this weekend anyways and i'll ask them, but anyways, here's my question...I'm probbaly gonna get the stage 2 for now, i'm assuming that i could upgrade to the stage 3, but would there be a discount on price since I wouldn't be needing the whole kit, but just the difference from stage2 to 3...and is there going to be another showing of the stage3 car? i didn't find out about the last one until it was too late...

If by discount you mean are you going to have to pay more than the price difference between stage 2 and stage 3, then yes.

Guys, I'm out of the office right now and not returning until Tuesday. About to get some shut eye. Early day tomorrow. I'll get all the info. I have up on Tuesday morning.

Does anyone know the diameter of the exhaust of the Power Pack? I didn't see it listed anywhere. From the pictures, it looks like about 4 inches.

I'm very interested in the Stage 2, but am still waiting to see dyno sheets and actual arrival time!

Carl M

Tuesday morning, wednesday afternoon, ...

WAKE UP!!!
:lol:

(he must've been REALLY tired heheheh)

Still curious about Stage 1 & 2 with the oval-tipped muffler...;)

:disco:

Cheers,
Grant

was wondering if any of the power packs would void warranty of the car, i have a 4eat and was thinking of the stage 2, i got 15,000 miles on the car and just wanted to see if this package would void my warranty or what, thanx

Originally posted by showcasewrx
was wondering if any of the power packs would void warranty of the car, i have a 4eat and was thinking of the stage 2, i got 15,000 miles on the car and just wanted to see if this package would void my warranty or what, thanx

All of them will. They increase power by adjusting fuel, timing and boost.

I am going to be very skeptical about the oval tip not handling the stage 3 tune until I am provided with a reason. The constuction looks identical. Unless the pass through is larger on the round tipped unit, I see no reason why one would perform better then the other. Simon says, so he must be right, but I would still like to know why, so I don't question his statement.

I am obviously speculating just like anybody else, but I think of it this way: If you look at the stock muffler, and then look at Vishnu's turbo back exhaust, they look nearly identical-- but to compare the stock muffler to Vishnu's back box, well, you know the line - it's like comparing apples to aardvarks.

My GUESS is that the prodrive muffler may not be extraordinarily high-flowing, as it's total INCREASE in sound seems to indicate. I figure the new back box, being a slightly larger tip, is probably a bit louder, but much freer-flowing.

And as just another guess why it won't work on their stage 3, it might be similar to the TXS stealthback not being favored in higher HP applications - now comparing the PPP to the TXS Stealthback is kinda like apples to aardvarks, but the application is similar - The stock muffler is very restrictive, and is not favored in higher HP situations - my guess is that the Prodrive "oval" muffler might be quite restrictive (on the inside) and, therefore, will not provide safe, reliable performance with their Stage 3.

just my .02

It is a straight through design. The only restriction, is the diameter of the pipe.

Hey guys. I've not really had a minute to breath since I got in the office. Sorry this isn't Tuesday morning.

Dyno charts still aren't up, but I've been assured that they are coming soon.

The kits will harm warranty due to remapping of the ECU. Not something Subaru really smiles about.

The muffler (oval tip) will work with stage 1 and 2. We have a stage 2 car running around with the oval tip on it and it's great.

The diameter of the piping is 2.5" on the oval tip, but the round tip is slightly larger (70mm).

I'm sure I'm missing questions here, so feel free to remind me.

Ryan

Originally posted by Irvine Subaru
Hey guys. I've not really had a minute to breath since I got in the office. Sorry this isn't Tuesday morning.

Dyno charts still aren't up, but I've been assured that they are coming soon.

The kits will harm warranty due to remapping of the ECU. Not something Subaru really smiles about.

The muffler (oval tip) will work with stage 1 and 2. We have a stage 2 car running around with the oval tip on it and it's great.

The diameter of the piping is 2.5" on the oval tip, but the round tip is slightly larger (70mm).

I'm sure I'm missing questions here, so feel free to remind me.

Ryan

In inch-speak, that would be 2.5" versus 2.8"...

Roughly yes.

Shipping estimates? :D

<---- Cirrus, the eager one.

count me in defintly also

ryan - is it possible to order it directly from you guys? is there any other way i can pay for a stage 2 besides online? i was thinking of also pickingup and switching my ecu over at spimotorsports, i kinda cant live a day w\o my car, its my only one :eek:

Originally posted by Irvine Subaru
Hey guys. I've not really had a minute to breath since I got in the office.

The muffler (oval tip) will work with stage 1 and 2. We have a stage 2 car running around with the oval tip on it and it's great.

Ryan

Yea! :D

What will the Stage 2 price be without the round tip muffler?

Edvig

Originally posted by Edvig
Yea! :D

What will the Stage 2 price be without the round tip muffler?

Edvig ^
|
|
What he said! :D

Cheers,
Grant

I'll figure out the pricing without the muffler. If you're interested e-mail me. As for shipping quotes, hit me up via e-mail also.

ryan@irvinesubaru.com

Of course you'll be able to come in and pick them up/have the work done here. :)

Dyno charts and other info. should be up soon. Super Street just did a review of the PPP.

Ryan

Ryan,how close is the technical data listed on the www.prodrive.com site. It has dyno charts and comparison times in each gear between a standard UK WRX (not STI) and a PPP equipped car. Looks like it was fitted with a stage 2 kit.

I know the fuel spec in the UK is different and it was a UK car rather than a US model but the comparison should reflect what is being achieved over here.

I'm not quite sure how close those are going to be honestly. Fueling and the fact that we've got other fun emmisions stuff (tumble valve generators) means it will be a bit different. I'm pushing on Prodrive to get these dyno charts up ASAP.

Originally posted by Irvine Subaru
I'll figure out the pricing without the muffler. If you're interested e-mail me. As for shipping quotes, hit me up via e-mail also.

ryan@irvinesubaru.com

Of course you'll be able to come in and pick them up/have the work done here. :)

Dyno charts and other info. should be up soon. Super Street just did a review of the PPP.

Ryan

:D yes! hmmmm i beleive you just won yourself another customer not that i wasnt already one :D

how much would install be? i mean all it is for a PPP stage 2 is replacing the ecu and bolting the midpipe\exaust and put the intercooler piping yes?

alright, i have another question... (as i am very interested in these kits)

it seems like the only part of the ppp that is not easily reversible would be the ecu reflash. if i needed to sell the car (which in turn would force me to have a smog check done), and wanted to put it back to stock, would that be as easy as switching the oem parts back and then acquiring a stock ecu from a '03 (from a salvage yard or wherever) and switching that out too?
sorry for the winded question!
thanks
greg

Originally posted by Irvine Subaru
I'll figure out the pricing without the muffler. If you're interested e-mail me. As for shipping quotes, hit me up via e-mail also.


I hope you'll post this pricing on your web site for all of the current Prodrive muffler owners who don't want to buy a new muffler with the Stage I and II PPPs.

boxman

Since Prodrive is using EcuTek's base framework for their programming, are they now also offering two different maps on one ECU?
And if so, what is their second map designed for? Stock, low boost, valet?

Originally posted by Petrie
Ryan,how close is the technical data listed on the www.prodrive.com site. It has dyno charts and comparison times in each gear between a standard UK WRX (not STI) and a PPP equipped car. Looks like it was fitted with a stage 2 kit.

I know the fuel spec in the UK is different and it was a UK car rather than a US model but the comparison should reflect what is being achieved over here.

Why do you say Stage 2? I see mention only of ECU, intercooler hose, and muffler. That's Stage 1, right?

Originally posted by The real boxman
I hope you'll post this pricing on your web site for all of the current Prodrive muffler owners who don't want to buy a new muffler with the Stage I and II PPPs.Including a tasteful Prodrive badge or sticker, right Ryan? <<hint, hint>> ;)

Cheers,
Grant

Just a free bump, also looking for any more recent updates on a timeframe for availability.

I live local, How much are we talking here to have a stage 3 installed by you if the kit is also purchased through you??? This is by biggest question. I need to know that I'm not going to take it up the a** because I don't want to install an uppipe by myself! Some fools at the local tuning shop told me 7 hours for an uppipe install!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Told me it would cost $400++! Needless to say, I told them to their faces that they were a very insane group of people...
Thanks
Ryan

Originally posted by YoungWilliams
Including a tasteful Prodrive badge or sticker, right Ryan? <<hint, hint>> ;)

Cheers,
Grant

seriously. i'm about ready to make a t shirt that says "i paid 300 bucks for these prodrive springs and all i got...wait, i MADE THIS SHIRT TOO! :mad:" :D

Prodrive is pretty conservative about who they give stickers to, but I'll see if I can get them to include something for you guys.

If you want the pricing without the muffler, please feel free to e-mail me. We're working on getting that information on the site, but might take a while as we've hit busy season.

Changing the ECU back to stock is as easy as flashing it back. Or you can get a standard ECU. Keep in mind that the flash license goes with the ECU. I've already had many an inquiry about purchasing a spare ECU. It's not cheap, but it is one way to go.

Ryan - I PM'd you back. Finally.

Ryan
ryan@irvinesubaru.com

Originally posted by prodriveusa
Hello,

We will have a temp website up by the end of this week or sometime next week. There will be a dyno section on our site hopefully in 2 weeks.

Estimated ETA on PPP kits:

Stage 1 in 60 days.

Stage 2 and 3 90 days.

Thanks,
Scott

This dyno section was supposed to be up March 5th. No dyno sheets yet? Your car must have countless hours on the dyno. We've been pretty patient. Anything?:confused:

Also looks like Stage 1's are scheduled to start arriving in 3 days and Stage 2 and 3 about a month yes? :D

ttt

Originally posted by ryanvancil
I live local, How much are we talking here to have a stage 3 installed by you if the kit is also purchased through you??? This is by biggest question. I need to know that I'm not going to take it up the a** because I don't want to install an uppipe by myself!

ditto

Ok maybe we can simply find out what kind of dyno the results came on since we aren't going to get dyno sheets? :confused:

Kinda worries me that this is the type of turn around and responses we are getting pre-sale. What happens after we have our PPP's?