http://www.latimes.com/news/state/updates/lat_gas010424.htm

Yup, perceived value is an interesting thing.

I managed a movie theatre, in college. They would count sales in the snackbar by doing inventory on the # of cups, which meant that we had to charge someone who wanted a regular cup for water the same amount as if the cup was filled with Soda.

Without fail, everyone complained about the $2.50 cup of water, but not about the $2.50 cup of coke, even though there was like 1/4 of a cent worth of Coke syrup in there.

HongKongBeef et all,

You all have to remember that most of those people driving the Big Arse SUV's are also they same people who don't really care what they pay for gasoline...

Mike
#25

Nothing will stop SUV drivers. They'll just keep driving the 3 blocks to the gym to work out and just max out their credit cards buying gas.

I know it's way too late now, but the US should tax cars with large engines like they do in almost every other developed country.

The reason the WRX has a 2 litre engine is because any engine larger than that gets taxed up the a$$ in Europe and Japan.

I would actually be willing to to pay $5 a gallon for gas IF the taxes on it went to REAL public transit, therefore providing a realistic alternative to driving. Even now I walk the 2 miles to work every day because I hate LA traffic and my Subie only gets driven for fun and not aggrivation.

[This message has been edited by SoCalSoob (edited April 24, 2001).]

The prices in Chicago are currently 2.19-1.99 and in the burbs are around 2.09-1.89.

I'm considering building an alternate form of transportation. http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/frown.gif

I would love any non gas form ... maybe I should get an electric car ???

you might notice one spot ...
Chicago/ 1.860/ 1.446 has the biggest increase of all and as 8 said that price is low compared to what I paid just ove the weekend.

Brad

My Alternative Transport=New Balance

YEAH!... Tax them suckers till they screeeeaaaam!!! You know, when we went to a Fararri showroom I couldn't believe the amount of "gas guzzler" tax they put on those cars (I forget the technical name of the tax, but it was because they were big performance engines), and anyone can waltz in the buy the biggest SUV and not pay a similar tax. Geeezzzz.....

Oh yeah, I remember also reading in a car mag that you pay luxury tax on any car over something like $30,000 but this does not apply to SUV's, which is why people like the Lexus, BMW and Mercedes SUV's since they an drive a "luxury car" with the luxury tax!!!

[This message has been edited by subymamma (edited April 24, 2001).]

Good point subymamma, I forgot about the luxury tax.

The fact that there is no luxury tax on luxury SUV's (and don't even tell me that there is anything utilitarian about such luxury SUV's like the Escalade and the LX470) is further proof that the auto-makers have politicians in their pockets!

I mean SHEESH! A Deville is MUCH more environmentally friendly than an Escalade.

$1.74 for Sunoco Ultra as of yesterday...

Here's what irks me about this all:
http://news.excite.com/news/ap/010423/18/earns-exxon-mobil

Gas companies increasing profit margins, posting 44% profit increases compared to a year ago, and blaming a supply side crunch for the price hikes??? Nothing more than a legalized racket, if you ask me...

I believe the reason there is no luxury tax on SUV's is that auto-makers lobied to have them classified as light trucks. IIRC, they also have less stringent emissions standards as a result. This may have changed in the last year or so, but I do remember this being an issue a while back.

Jordan

I havent' driven my car since Sunday. Not because of gas, though, just because I try live a healthy life, blah, blah, blah.

Consider yourselves lucky guys... I paid 79.9cents a litre yesterday for regular petrol.

That's about $3.02/gallon.

Oh, and just on a side note, our AWD systems are very inefficient. Most other cars of similar size/weight to the Impreza get a good 10-15MPG better mileage. So, you can cut out the self-righteous condemnation of SUV owners. What the hell do you think you are driving??

[This message has been edited by gavin (edited April 24, 2001).]

Buuut, my Sube produces a lot less emissions than an SUV And still gets better gas mileage than most SUV's AND I only drive about 150 miles a week.

I'm cranky about people who drive SUV's EVERYWHERE when they don't need to.



[This message has been edited by SoCalSoob (edited April 24, 2001).]

Like others have said: I'm not opposed to paying higher prices for gas, if I know that it's because of additional taxes that will benefit society in some way or another. If there's a clear channel from my pockets to the coffers of some multinational corporate giant that employs alcoholic tanker captains however, I take offense. http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/mad.gif

gavin? Where on earth do you get you statistics? I couldn't disagree more.

From Edmunds.com info on the most recently published info available on their site for that a line of comparable AWD cars is as follows:

2000 Impreza 2.5RS Sedan:
EPA Mileage Estimates: (City/Highway)
Manual: 21 mpg / 28 mpg
Automatic: 23 mpg / 28 mpg

1999 Audi A4 1.8TQ:
EPA Mileage Estimates: (City/Highway)
Manual: 21 mpg / 29 mpg
Automatic: 18 mpg / 27 mpg

1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD:
EPA Mileage Estimates: (City/Highway)
Manual: 21 mpg / 28 mpg
Automatic: 19 mpg / 25 mpg

1992 Isuzi Impulse RS AWD:
EPA Mileage Estimates: (City/Highway)
Manual: 22 mpg / 28 mpg

1992 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 Sedan AWD:
EPA Mileage Estimates: (City/Highway)
Manual: 19 mpg / 25 mpg

1993 Toyota Celica Turbo GT4 AWD:
EPA Mileage Estimates: (City/Highway)
Manual: 19 mpg / 24 mpg

2000 Volvo S70 Turbo Sedan AWD:
EPA Mileage Estimates: (City/Highway)
Automatic: 18 mpg / 25 mpg

2000 Passat AWD: .... no fuel consumption data available, but since similar to the Audi systems, we can expect it will be similar to an A4.

Gee whiz, looks like the Impreza is...right in the middle of the pack. Where's this inefficiency that Subaru's are infamous for? The Impreza weighing in at close to 2900lbs is not too far off the Mitsu's and heavier than the Isuzu. Where's this 10-15mpg better? http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[edit] On a side note, I'll include the Integra TypeR info as well, which should theoretically have WAAAY better gas mileage since it only is FWD and lighter than an Impreza. Info again is from Edmunds and the earliest available data showing fuel consumption figures:

1998 Acura Integra TypeR:
EPA Mileage Estimates: (City/Highway)
Manual: 25 mpg / 31 mpg

[This message has been edited by markus (edited April 24, 2001).]

i don't know about you guys, but even now I still only get about 21-24 mpg and I drive about 50 miles a day to and from work most of which is straight freeway and no...I don't drive aggressively cuz traffic flows at about 60mph all the way til the freeway exit(sometimes 65 if I really try). My Subie is only 8800 mile old too...

You have it easy.. Up in northern Kali it's hittin $2 for the 87 now. And it's supposed to go to $3.. Think of it this way, you'll prolly see less SUV's on the road now!

Yeah I know, I grew up in Berkeley. Living in LA is MUCH cheaper all around.

I got this from the chronicle:

Price per gallon of regular gasoline(x)/
Current/ One month ago
San Francisco/ 2.037/ 1.904
Chicago/ 1.860/ 1.446
Los Angeles/ 1.768/ 1.618
Fresno/ 1.754/ 1.683
New York/ 1.695/ 1.576
Denver/ 1.631/ 1.421
Dallas/ 1.618/ 1.371
Boston/ 1.594/ 1.484
Portland/ 1.568/ 1.565
Billings, Mont./ 1.566/ 1.504
(x) as of yesterday: Source: AAA Daily Fuel Gauge Report; www.aaa.com (http://www.aaa.com)

[This message has been edited by SoCalSoob (edited April 24, 2001).]

Now I agree that it's getting to be too much.

But I ask you to think of it this way. Why complain about $2.50 - $3.00 for a gallon of Gas when at the same place they are charging like $1.29 for a few ounces of Mineral Water? WATER!?!? That's like $5.00 a gallon! For something that you can get with a much lower expenditure than it takes to get and make gas. For something that falls from the sky? Water? $5.00? NUTS.

Now, I'm not saying that I don't complain about the cost of gas. And I'm sure that you don't drink bottled water. AND I'm sure you don't use upwards of ten gallons or more of water in a single day. But cost per quantity? Which is worse?

Just keepin it relative.
-Silas

This isn't nearly as bad as it sounds. I hope this just makes those SUV drivers wake up and realize that those vehicles are dangerous and inefficient. I hope it just drives SUV's out of California.

-Brian

Dude!

U can not compare this way.

Yes, prices of gas are very high. But if we compare it to gallon of "Chanel #5" French parfum then it'll look like it is free.

Regardelss, gas is high!

Eugene

Markus,

I'm comparing the Impreza, or Legacy, to non-AWD cars.

AWD is not the most efficient choice, if your concern is fuel economy. We've all made the same choice of performance over economy, which is exactly the same choice that many SUV owners have made. I would guess that probably about the same percentage of Subaru owners actually need AWD, as SUV owners who need 4wd.

I'm not suggesting it's an invalid choice, especially for most people on this board who drive the hell out of their car. I'm simply saying don't knock one class of vehicle owners, when we've essentially done the same thing.

I am not sure how many people have noticed this but I lived in VT a year ago. My gas milage on a long trip (65mph consistent) wwas as high as 31-32 miles per gallon. Since I have moved to CA, the best I have been able to do on a long trip (65mph consistent) is about 27 miles per gallon on 89 octane. Sounds like the additives they add into the gas out here has made for worse gas milage. Or could it be something else?

gavin,

Agreed, AWD is not the most efficient choice due to drivetrain losses and such. But as I tried to illustrate, there is really not a huge difference between our cars and their FWD competitors (like the ITR).

Doing more research on Edmunds, I find the following:

2000 Dodge Neon Sedan:
EPA Mileage Estimates: (City/Highway)
Manual: 28 mpg / 35 mpg
Automatic: 25 mpg / 31 mpg

2000 Honda Civic Si:
EPA Mileage Estimates: (City/Highway)
Manual: 26 mpg / 31 mpg

2000 Honda Prelude Type SH:
EPA Mileage Estimates: (City/Highway)
Manual: 22 mpg / 27 mpg

2000 Ford Focus:
No info available

2000 VW Jetta Sedan 1.8T:
EPA Mileage Estimates: (City/Highway)
Manual: 24 mpg / 31 mpg
Automatic: 22 mpg / 28 mpg

As you can see, there really isn't a drastic difference between AWD & FWD cars of similar sizes. I think the point others were trying to make is that its the SUV's that are the very worst of offenders in this case and our types of vehicles are FAR superior in that aspect. You can't really compare them to an SUV other than all 4 wheels are driven.

Over long distances, the slightest combination of things can make you mileage vary in different parts of the country.
Yes, the quality of gas can make a difference.
But here are some other things to consider, like...

1) altitude (higher up = less air = more engine work to go 65mph)
2) road surface. (this seems trivial but, over long distances, a little more friction means a little more work for you engine to maintain speeds)
3) air quality. (at atmospheric PSI, contaminants particles/gases takes up some of the spaces that would normally be filled with "useable" air. In turn lowering the parts per millions of good combustible air for the engine to use. Also your air filter will get dirtier and lets in less air.)
4) Hills (I don't have to explain this one do I?)

Or none of this could be a factor for you and the gas suppliers/sellers in your area are "watering down" the gas so they will have just that much more to sell.

BTW: someone mentioned that the gas companies profits are up 44% (or something like that) but, gas is still going up. I think, with the alternative fueled vehicle compliances just around the corner, and with the oil depletion on the foreseeable horizon, the gas companies are just trying to get fat for the winter.


--Reiflex
ImprezaRacing (http://www.reiff.freeservers.com)

Two days ago, Gas was reasonably cheap in Northridge. 87=1.68 89=1.72 and 92=1.79... Haha, I go today to fill up my tank and the prices raised a bit. 92 went up to 1.85.. Oh well, only cost me 21 bucks to fill-er-up.