With the following hardware mods:

Hayward & Scott - 50mm catless uppipe, catless bell mouth downpipe & 2.5" cat-back (dual tip) - stock 3rd cat.

Snorkulobotomy.

Upgraded TMIC.

Samco hose upgrades.

Port & polished stock turbo.

Water injection.

Upgraded fuel rails, pump, regulator and injectors.

Which engine management options will get me closest to a nice torque curve over 200 at the wheels from 3000 rpm to 6000 rpm?

Unless it spools up as soon or quicker than the stock - I am not upgrading the turbo. Or unless a 6 speed magically appears in my car or I get better ratios put in the 5 spd.

I've got the ECUtek reflash and it helped out my torque curve ALOT. It flattened it out a great deal and I've got much better torque down low. Boost hits sooner and it feels more like N/A now than turbo cause its so smooth.:D There isn't one second that I regret going with a reflash over another method. But, different strokes for different folks.

my .02 cents

wishful thinking- It can be done but Id suggest you park yourself on a dyno with a stand alone, utec or xede. a 2.2 would help

Thanks for the response. I will likely go that way if the stars line up properly:

1. I can trust myself not to want to tinker.
2. Shiv comes back to NJ to do the remap. :)
3. Shiv is willing to do the remap even w/o my snorkus. ;)

The problem with a mail-in ECUtek reflash is that I don't match anyone's stage exactly - especially keeping my exhaust mostly 2.5" instead of 3".

I would agree that getting a fine professional remap in the car would likely produce the most gains (despite my confidence in my tuning skills). This is primarily because I think that remaps done in the car are better than any piggyback could hope for.

Anyone with any ideas on some torquey user-tuneables?

Originally posted by MP5
wishful thinking- It can be done but Id suggest you park yourself on a dyno with a stand alone, utec or xede. a 2.2 would help

:lol: I know very wishful, that is why I qualified my wishes with "closest".

My longer term plans do include finding a cheap 2.0 long block, partially close the deck, stroked and blueprinted to 2.2 but that is far enough off that the closest solution I find now will suffice.

Do you really think that Utec can be tuned to out torque an Xede? TXS results seem more focused on high end power to me as an outside observer. I like the potential of Xede but don't like the lack of documentation and the relatively low level of user feedback.

Thanks for the response!

well you can practically take control of all performance aspects with both utec and xede I think your question is terrible but I dont want to flame I want to help- Your talking about tuning not hardware so If shiv or TXS is willing to try to extract all the low end torque they can It will require a tune buy them- so If shiv is coming to your area then his personally tuned remap for your car would be nice- I had his off the shelf and loved it- now I have a UTEC tune it myself and leave alot on the table cause I cant match his skill. but to ask which em hardware has more torque is not correct- like asking which 225/45/17 tire has more air it depends on how you fill it up.

I have found the WRXLink works well for torque over the ECUTek, we tune both at I-Speed USA, and also the UTEC, which also work well but not quite as good as the WRXLink. Though a lot comes down to how much time you want to spend on the dyno.

Originally posted by skywalker
I have found the WRXLink works well for torque over the ECUTek, we tune both at I-Speed USA, and also the UTEC, which also work well but not quite as good as the WRXLink. Though a lot comes down to how much time you want to spend on the dyno.

What is there more load points/resolution with the link- Is there slightly better control over certain load points if not I dont get it could you explain chris? Are you shying from the ecuteck and favoring the link for more performance oriented customers?

Bill (aka skywalker) mentions the LINK over the ECUtek for torque because with the LINK you can pretty much set timing to what you want and you will get what you put in. However, with the ECUtek, you can set the timing BUT the stock computer likes to learn and pull the timing back to its desired 'safe' parameters.

Do we prefer one unit to the other? Well, it depends on the application. I run the ECUtek in my car most of the time (street, some drag, and few track days). I run Link in my car most track days, some drag and few street days. I certainly get more power from the link, but I get way better gas mileage and reliability with the ECUtek. So, it really depends on what you really want to do with your car.

Chris

Originally posted by MP5
well you can practically take control of all performance aspects with both utec and xede I think your question is terrible but I dont want to flame I want to help- Your talking about tuning not hardware so If shiv or TXS is willing to try to extract all the low end torque they can It will require a tune buy them- so If shiv is coming to your area then his personally tuned remap for your car would be nice- I had his off the shelf and loved it- now I have a UTEC tune it myself and leave alot on the table cause I cant match his skill. but to ask which em hardware has more torque is not correct- like asking which 225/45/17 tire has more air it depends on how you fill it up.

I agree that if I was able to get a tuner with a known reputation that they could tune my socks off on a dyno - I will go that route if it becomes available. Tuning myself I would likely leave alot on the table or worse waste the motor, relative to an in car tune. However, given that I don't match any stage I think I could out tune a packaged remap.

Your response is helpful since it would indicate that several options are just as capable in the right hands. My question was to find out if this was the case. It has not been my impression that all engine management options do not have the same tuneability throughout a table or at any given point on a table. Assuming that differences exist between the approach a particular solution takes to tables - the system may matter. These responses will help me figure out if that is the case or not.

Thanks I-speed. Do you have a Walbro pump? Have you had the issues others have with Link and the pump?

Since about Jan. 03 we have not seen the fueling issue in any of the LINKs we have gotten from our vendor. However, we sometimes still see/tune other LINKs (not purchased from us) that still display that odd behavior. I can only assume that those ECUs were of another older version.
Chris

Originally posted by jehcpa
Thanks for the response. I will likely go that way if the stars line up properly:

1. I can trust myself not to want to tinker.
2. Shiv comes back to NJ to do the remap. :)


A Shiv custom tune is possible in the near future. Check out this (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=344295).

Yeah I saw that but I don't think all my mods will be installed by then. :( I was very bummed to hear it was going to be so soon and it looks like it will be filled up well before I get everything installed. Hopefully, it goes so well they line up a third one for early June - so I will be all set for a road trip to Pikes Peak.

Try rallperformance (using ecutek), they are tuning for H&S pieces. Mine is spooling fast and exceeding 200 ft lbs 3000-6000 rpms- oe snail/fuel/ic; STi/JDM uppipe, SS downpipe, oe 3rd cat, SS catback, Samco ic/turbo inlet hoses.

Did you do the turbo port/polish yourself or have someone else do it (if so who)? I'm considering this as well as the throttle body.

Thanks

Big Sky

No offense intended, but you should learn a thing or two about tuning before asking this question. You can do the same thing with any ECU, as long as you tune it the way it needs to be. You can't ask what'll make you the most torque, or even the smoothest torque, simply for the fact that you can do it with any of them, it's just a different method.

What that would imply is that every method can be used to arrive at the exact same results - that the differences in method don't matter. I bet you from the perspective of the vendors they would beg to differ since they are all so busy trying to differentiate themselves. The point of this way back when I asked it was that I am not after peak horsepower as it is less useful for my purposes than max area under a smooth curve throughout the power band.

You are only partially right - when I asked the question I needed to learn more about the tuning tools available for the WRX (and that was the point to learn more about the tools for the WRX) - I know plenty about tuning. Enough to know the methods used by the tools matter.

Originally posted by jehcpa
I know plenty about tuning. Enough to know the methods used by the tools matter. Sure, they matter... But, if all you're going for is a nice smooth power delivery, then really any engine management system can do it, if you can do it.


Unless, of course, you buy a link and your fuel pump shuts off...

Originally posted by Austin
Unless, of course, you buy a link and your fuel pump shuts off... Heh, I think they fixed that problem, though the same could be said about a Vishnu TEC kit that has it's wiring harness fall apart. :lol:

Originally posted by 8Complex
Heh, I think they fixed that problem, though the same could be said about a Vishnu TEC kit that has it's wiring harness fall apart. :lol:

Same can be said for that Haltech harness that lost connectivity to #1 fuel injector. ;)

---

As for which kit makes more power. It all depends on how well the tuner in question understands that kit and how much time is spent on tuning an individual car and how much of that is also spent in tuning the car to the individual driving it.

All the kits have the basic fundamentals that are similar enough that any tuner can pick up the software and do rough tunes. Anything that involves the quirks of the kit, or tricks that can only be picked up by playing with the software can only come from experience. Same can be said for any tuner who has never worked on a certain make/model of car compared to a tuner who knows that make/model intimately.

As for tuning the car to the individual.. I don't want to talk about the hours required for that.

All these elements are required for a smooth driving car that is going to get as close to stock reliability as you are going to get with aftermarket systems.

You want the system that will get best torque? Look for something that will allow individual cylinder trims. And someone who knows how to tune the bejesus out of it. Honestly, between the standalones, getting someone good to tune it probably makes more difference that the actually management.

Originally posted by Revision
Same can be said for that Haltech harness that lost connectivity to #1 fuel injector. ;)Heh, yeah... tack that onto my own bad soldering job. :)

The ecu does not make the torque..your equipment (turbo, injectors, exhaust, etc) and more importantly, your tuner, is what produces torque

Adam

:lol:

The best feedback is that I have clearly gotten the point the question was poorly worded on my part and I did not communicate my true objective. I never meant to imply that engine management generated torque but clearly that is the impression many were left with. I understand the limited title may have lead to that but thought the initial post was clearer than that - clearly not.

I was trying to understand with my intended mods which user-tunable engine management would get me to the airflow/fuel flow/mechanical/exhaust torque limits of my setup without a lot of fluff or a focus of the tools on max hp results. I would have found it hard to believe that all the options out there have the ability to tune 3k-5.5k rpm equally well without a lot of other distractions. Apparently I was mistaken from the responses - I guess I can use any of them to do this with little difference in the end results among them.

My intention was to get a dyno tune initially and then use the relative differences from road dynos to work out good partial throttle and WOT torque output as I added mods and in between dyno sessions.

Thank you for the responses - though it is no clearer now than before which tool will best achieve my objectives. I had read the claims of the manufacturers but was hoping to get user input so I am not left just going with the least expensive product that I believe can come close to their claims.

heh...
All depends on your goals.
If you have a tuner nearby that is going to tune your car, and he's familiar with a system, use that.

If you're tuning your own car, best to ask what alot of folks are using so you can actually get feedback and help on what you're doing.

Obvisiously some units are more capable than others though.
Do you care if you have to wire it in as opposed to a plug and play system?
Are you set on a standalone?
How far do you intend to take it?
What's your budget?

Every system has its ups and down though.
If you're tuning it yourself, I can't stress enough how getting good timely supports is more important than the actual hardware.