2002 z06
K&N filter
carbon fiber air bridge and silicone coupler
zip tie mod

MTI's dyno in Houston, Texas
85.9degrees
1.01 correction factor

max power - 370.8
max torque - 360.4

YaY!!! a stock car on a dyno...

:disco: :disco: :disco: The real Z06 (http://www.lingenfelter.com/images/lpevettevsviper.wmv)

I think he made 370hp... o wait.. that was 730hp, my bad :D

~v6

Originally posted by V6TurboTA
YaY!!! a stock car on a dyno...

:disco: :disco: :disco: The real Z06 (http://www.lingenfelter.com/images/lpevettevsviper.wmv)

I think he made 370hp... o wait.. that was 730hp, my bad :D

~v6

bah

I made about 15hp more than stock =)

corsa race titanium exauhst to come someday

The z06 in the video has a custom Borla titanium exaust. still very quiet. Nice piece.

Should be back with the C5R 427 :eek: within a month or so.

Too bad he is going to have to put a chute on a street car :lol:

~v6

370 is more than scary enough thanks =)

plus I don't want to do anythign I can't undo in half an hour for SS autocrossing purposes


Originally posted by V6TurboTA
The z06 in the video has a custom Borla titanium exaust. still very quiet. Nice piece.

Should be back with the C5R 427 :eek: within a month or so.

Too bad he is going to have to put a chute on a street car :lol:

~v6

Originally posted by jmott
2002 z06
K&N filter
carbon fiber air bridge and silicone coupler
zip tie mod

MTI's dyno in Houston, Texas
85.9degrees
1.01 correction factor

max power - 370.8
max torque - 360.4

My friendly response to this is "what a pig".

If I did my math correctly thats about 75hp per liter.

My car is currently making about 250hp per liter with nitrous and 200hp per liter on a measily 15 psi on 91 octane fuel with no nitrous. Dyno proven on the dyno dynamics AWD dyno.

A stock WRX is making 113hp per liter.

Man. What a pig of a motor. The Vette that V6 posted about is just above a stock WRX's Hp to liter hp ratio. Why people lust after those motors I do not understand. I have driven them and been around the Z06 for a while now they are great performers. I would never own one. I cant get past the fact that the switches are the same ones in the socker moms minivan at the light next to me :(

The only and I mean only thing it has going for it is the weight and the "P" factor. My friends is 3000 lbs on the scale at the track after he pulled some stuff out. I guess its a nice car for someone that wants to plunk down the money and not mess with it. Just think how awesome it could be if Chevy had the technology that subaru does in making power out of small displacement engines.

CT

Did i mention he will have around 1000 ft lbs when it comes back? :)

~v6

Man. What a pig of a motor. The Vette that V6 posted about is just above a stock WRX's Hp to liter hp ratio. Why people lust after those motors I do not understand. I have driven them and been around the Z06 for a while now they are great performers. I would never own one. I cant get past the fact that the switches are the same ones in the socker moms minivan at the light next to me


Amen.



Graham

The subaru is turbocharged at around 14psi.
its effective displacement at that boost is about 4 liters.
at 4 effective liters it makes 227hp
with cranked up boost and eauhst about 280

with a big turbo and all of the above as much as 350+

The z06 makes 405hp with 5.7liters and no boost.

There are advantages to naturally aspirated power. No turbo lag for instance, huge area under the hp and torque curves (as opposed to, say an S2000) Also there is increased reliability under severe conditions like road racing. No intercooler heat soak to worry about.

Chevy didnt choose to make 405hp with a big v8 because they are stupid, they did so because that sort of power band is most appropriate for a vette.

despite this huge engine, the z06 still comes in weighing the same as a WRX, despite have a tougher 6 speed gearbox, 295/265 tires and huge wheels.

Not to mention it has a superior front/rear weight ratio (51/49) to the wrx

Not to mention it will outhandle the WRX in autocross or road racing compeitions.

Now I do miss the subaru at times, the AWD launches were great, and dirt roads that I would explore with the WRX have to be avoided now. The WRX is an incredible combination of high power, roomy interior, small exterior size, and awd grip.

but lets not throw out the usual stupid arguments about displacement. turbocharging a small motor isn't rocket science or high tech. Its a design choice. One any car company on the face of the earth is capable of handling.



Originally posted by AZScoobie


My friendly response to this is "what a pig".

If I did my math correctly thats about 75hp per liter.

My car is currently making about 250hp per liter with nitrous and 200hp per liter on a measily 15 psi on 91 octane fuel with no nitrous. Dyno proven on the dyno dynamics AWD dyno.

A stock WRX is making 113hp per liter.

Man. What a pig of a motor. The Vette that V6 posted about is just above a stock WRX's Hp to liter hp ratio. Why people lust after those motors I do not understand. I have driven them and been around the Z06 for a while now they are great performers. I would never own one. I cant get past the fact that the switches are the same ones in the socker moms minivan at the light next to me :(

The only and I mean only thing it has going for it is the weight and the "P" factor. My friends is 3000 lbs on the scale at the track after he pulled some stuff out. I guess its a nice car for someone that wants to plunk down the money and not mess with it. Just think how awesome it could be if Chevy had the technology that subaru does in making power out of small displacement engines.

CT

No bashing big V-8s because dollar for dollar an F-body is the best straight line acceleration car out there and the Corvette is one of the best in the world. You can match the hp numbers only by spending $20,000 more.

Ron

fbody.... riiight. I'll stick with a fox body... killed many a LS1 with mine.

As for the V8/domestic bashing... we'll let those people open their mouths and remove all doubt.


so what if you vette can kill me.... I have more valves, and blinky lights:rolleyes: dolts!!!

HP per Liter is for bench racing and making people feel better about their cars.

Don't listen to mott. he's a little bitch ;)

but lets not throw out the usual stupid arguments about displacement. turbocharging a small motor isn't rocket science or high tech. Its a design choice any car company on the face of the earth is capable of handling.

Couldn't have said it any better. Like the guy said later, hp/liter is for bench racing. It does NOTHING in the real world. I don't care if my car has 5hp/liter...if it is faster, that's what matters. The Z06 is faster. Period.

You can't honestly believe that GM is so far behind they can't figure out how to turbocharge a car. They did the Grand National about 20 years ago and everyone makes AWD vehicles. Of course Suraru could also build a pushrod V8. If you want to talk about who's "high-tech" you'll have to look much closer at a car than it's engine layout. EG magnetic suspension IS high-tech.

Originally posted by QuicksilverC5


Couldn't have said it any better. Like the guy said later, hp/liter is for bench racing. It does NOTHING in the real world. I don't care if my car has 5hp/liter...if it is faster, that's what matters. The Z06 is faster. Period.




First off lets get something strait. His Z06 will not beat my WRX. OK. That said lets move on:

The point of my post was not to start a bashing war about WRX against Corvette. If you guys want to continue that go ahead. The point was that I was not impressed in the least bit with the output that Jmott got on his $55,000 car. Its a large motor making very little power for its platform. Even when turbo charged they are still way under what most Japanese 4cyl's are making. With the exception of a few Z06's that are built and turbo charged with $20,000-$50,000 in modifications, the powerplant in the vette is not a very good motor in requards to hp/ltr.

CT

Originally posted by AZScoobie



First off lets get something strait. His Z06 will not beat my WRX. OK. That said lets move on:



:lol:
come back when you're living in the real world :)

Originally posted by philip_g


:lol:
come back when you're living in the real world :)

Do you even have a clue what all he has done to his WRX?? :rolleyes: If you did you would know that he would be quite the competition for a Z06.

Originally posted by 02_Scooby_WRX


Do you even have a clue what all he has done to his WRX?? :rolleyes: If you did you would know that he would be quite the competition for a Z06.

faster in what regard? I have a sneaking suspision he'd get his ass handed to him around an auto-x course.

Originally posted by philip_g


faster in what regard? I have a sneaking suspision he'd get his ass handed to him around an auto-x course.

You back tracking now? yes on turn 6 of the national course he might edge out the zo6 but not in turn 1-5 or the brake fade test bla bla bla. I love the auto cross guys using that as an arguement for the outright performance benchmark for cars. Well want to see something funny? Put that zo6 on a miata biased course and watch the neons and miatas b#$%@ slap the z06. That said I take jmotts zo6 over clarks wrx= yup Id drive it right over to the subie dealer and buy a wagon and a sedan- as well as order the ra EJ207 and 6MT:D ;). And Id be happy ever after. The only reason some like big land yacht domestics is that the have 2 tailpipes to hump:lol: :disco: .

Originally posted by MP5


You back tracking now? yes on turn 6 of the national course he might edge out the zo6 but not in turn 1-5 or the brake fade test bla bla bla. I love the auto cross guys using that as an arguement for the outright performance benchmark for cars. Well want to see something funny? Put that zo6 on a miata biased course and watch the neons and miatas b#$%@ slap the z06. That said I take jmotts zo6 over clarks wrx= yup Id drive it right over to the subie dealer and buy a wagon and a sedan- as well as order the ra EJ207 and 6MT:D ;). And Id be happy ever after. The only reason some like big land yacht domestics is that the have 2 tailpipes to hump:lol: :disco: .

I'm not back tracking anything. I still don't think he has a chance. You can spend 20k on a wrx, but it's still a cheap subaru POS.

my z06 wont beat your WRX at what?

drag racing?

you running better than 11.9 or so?

good work =)
Im sure that your WRX + those mods is a whole lot less than the $39k I paid for my z06.

woowoo!


The z06 motor was never intended to be a very good motor for hp/liter

It was intended to be a very good motor period.

Pushrod motors have disadvantages with regards to air flow and high rpm abilities compared to OHC engines. However, they are also cheaper, lighter, and take up less space.

I guess you do have a point.
It is just a stupid one.

I don't think you have any need to resort to the *******s retarded hp/liter argument. You actually have a fast car.



Originally posted by AZScoobie



First off lets get something strait. His Z06 will not beat my WRX. OK. That said lets move on:

The point of my post was not to start a bashing war about WRX against Corvette. If you guys want to continue that go ahead. The point was that I was not impressed in the least bit with the output that Jmott got on his $55,000 car. Its a large motor making very little power for its platform. Even when turbo charged they are still way under what most Japanese 4cyl's are making. With the exception of a few Z06's that are built and turbo charged with $20,000-$50,000 in modifications, the powerplant in the vette is not a very good motor in requards to hp/ltr.

CT

Originally posted by philip_g


I'm not back tracking anything. I still don't think he has a chance. You can spend 20k on a wrx, but it's still a cheap subaru POS.

So why do you post here and why do you own a "cheap subaru POS" ?
Why dont you go read some post and learn something about the car you drive and stop spreading your n00b comments making yourself look pretty pathetic.

Z06s do just fine on extremely tight courses.

I have seen autocrosses where miatas get comprable times as the z06s out there, but I have never seen any car beat the crap out of a z06.

and Ive been autocrossing for 2 years, every single weekend for the last few months.





Originally posted by MP5


You back tracking now? yes on turn 6 of the national course he might edge out the zo6 but not in turn 1-5 or the brake fade test bla bla bla. I love the auto cross guys using that as an arguement for the outright performance benchmark for cars. Well want to see something funny? Put that zo6 on a miata biased course and watch the neons and miatas b#$%@ slap the z06. That said I take jmotts zo6 over clarks wrx= yup Id drive it right over to the subie dealer and buy a wagon and a sedan- as well as order the ra EJ207 and 6MT:D ;). And Id be happy ever after. The only reason some like big land yacht domestics is that the have 2 tailpipes to hump:lol: :disco: .

A Z06 is deffinatly an 11 second car STOCK...

Deffinately better than a WRX...

You people are fools to compare the 2

~v6

Originally posted by 02_Scooby_WRX


So why do you post here and why do you own a "cheap subaru POS" ?
Why dont you go read some post and learn something about the car you drive and stop spreading your n00b comments making yourself look pretty pathetic.

open your eyes and see the car for what it is. It's a cheap car with an expensive drive train, the transmission sucks, the paint sucks, but it goes like hell for a lot less than anything else.

to many of you guys spend all your time here reading about how great your subarus are. It's a great car for the money, and that's about it. It's not the fastest car in the world :lol:

personally I think it's supid to dump more than 1-2k into modding a WRX, much more than that and you're pushing the used S4 territory, much nicer car. No rattles, transmissions don't go out... If I could afford one you know I'd be on it like white on rice.
If you think you're going to run with a z06, look at that torque curve again, you must be on crack.

227hp / 2.0 liters = 113hp/liter
700hp turbo vette = 120hp/liter


hmmm

All i gotta say is my friends Z06 is as fast as Easy streets car and its a completely daily driveable car. Full leather, A/C, Cruise Control...

10.10 @ 142mph on M & H ET street's

That was with the stock "lo tek" 350ci motor

I dont care how much money invested, or anything else.

Fast is fast...

WRX... is not fast :)

~v6

Originally posted by philip_g


open your eyes and see the car for what it is. It's a cheap car with an expensive drive train, the transmission sucks, the paint sucks, but it goes like hell for a lot less than anything else.

to many of you guys spend all your time here reading about how great your subarus are. It's a great car for the money, and that's about it. It's not the fastest car in the world :lol:

personally I think it's supid to dump more than 1-2k into modding a WRX, much more than that and you're pushing the used S4 territory, much nicer car. No rattles, transmissions don't go out... If I could afford one you know I'd be on it like white on rice.
If you think you're going to run with a z06, look at that torque curve again, you must be on crack.

Answer the question you moron. I asked why you own one??? Are you too stupid to answer the question or is it a bit over your small brain. Tell me where I stated the WRX was the best car in the world. I never stated that, I asked you a question. If you think the WRX sucks so bad then why were you such a dumba$$ to buy one???

If it is such a waste WHY do you own one?? Why are you posting on this board? Why do you and the other dumba$$ trolls have nothing beter to do then to post a bunch of worthless comments in a thread. Morons like you are a waste of oxygen. I am sure ClubSi has a nice spot for your over there since you seem to be that type or beter yet you would fit in beter over at the SRT-4 boards with the rest of the ricer kiddies.

:mad:
The MORON count has just went up folks!!

srt-4 is for ricer kiddies?
its got more balls than a wrx


Originally posted by 02_Scooby_WRX

in a thread. Morons like you are a waste of oxygen. I am sure ClubSi has a nice spot for your over there since you seem to be that type or beter yet you would fit in beter over at the SRT-4 boards with the rest of the ricer kiddies.

:mad:
The MORON count has just went up folks!!

Originally posted by jmott
srt-4 is for ricer kiddies?
its got more balls than a wrx




Oh yeah? I havent found one to out run my WRX yet. SRT-4 is cheap and affordable by most 16 year old F&F fans. The amount of garbage that I have read from the members over at the SRT-4 forums proves to me that this is the mentality of the people who own those cars.

One question for your. Why do you still bother posting here if you think the WRX is such a bad car? Why dont you join other people who love the car you own and post on the corvette forums? If you need help finding them I can help you search it really isnt that hard.

Wow you made 370 to the wheel good for you, WRX's have made that same power and more all totalling out to be less money than your Corvette. Big deal, I am not in this for a battle of which car is beter because there is no PERFECT car in the world as there is always something beter or a car with more mods. Get over it!!! If you feel the need to talk more trash to make yourself feel beter about your car please take it to OT where there is plenty of bandwidth for you to waste.

Make that 2 for the count.

jmott, what a jerk... why would you post about the power your car is making? Why would you so openly ask for a fight like this. Why don't you go and find a forum for bragging:rolleyes:

02-your an ass. simple as that. I still can't see what the heck you even jump this thread for... ahhh get lost!

I would like to make a note here.

I'm an ass and a moron too.

That is all :disco:

~v6

TA, your post didn't have the same being an ass sence as 02's... I just don't get why people like to hate just for the sake of hating... lots of domestic haters... I guess if you don't have 10 cams and and a turbo you car sucks...

Originally posted by 02_Scooby_WRX


Answer the question you moron. I asked why you own one??? Are you too stupid to answer the question or is it a bit over your small brain. Tell me where I stated the WRX was the best car in the world. I never stated that, I asked you a question. If you think the WRX sucks so bad then why were you such a dumba$$ to buy one???

If it is such a waste WHY do you own one?? Why are you posting on this board? Why do you and the other dumba$$ trolls have nothing beter to do then to post a bunch of worthless comments in a thread. Morons like you are a waste of oxygen. I am sure ClubSi has a nice spot for your over there since you seem to be that type or beter yet you would fit in beter over at the SRT-4 boards with the rest of the ricer kiddies.

:mad:
The MORON count has just went up folks!!


can you not read? the answer is right there.

Why are you getting bent over a car? :lol: is your self esteem so low that you define yourself by your car? or does it make your penis feel bigger? Are you just bent because deep inside you agree? Maybe somewhere in your brain you realize you drive a below average quality economy car with a turbo slapped on it.

God you people are touchy. OMG how dare I open my eyes and realize the WRX is not the end all be all performance car :lol:

Originally posted by jmott
my z06 wont beat your WRX at what?

drag racing?

you running better than 11.9 or so?

good work =)
Im sure that your WRX + those mods is a whole lot less than the $39k I paid for my z06.

woowoo!


The z06 motor was never intended to be a very good motor for hp/liter

It was intended to be a very good motor period.

Pushrod motors have disadvantages with regards to air flow and high rpm abilities compared to OHC engines. However, they are also cheaper, lighter, and take up less space.

I guess you do have a point.
It is just a stupid one.

I don't think you have any need to resort to the *******s retarded hp/liter argument. You actually have a fast car.





Oh dude. Calm down. Its not a WRX against Vette thing unless you take it there. The thread took it there and I made one line in my post just noting that my WRX will spank your Z06 and it will with half the cyl and about 1/3rd the displacement. All because the turbo right? V6 posted about his friends twin turbo vette which is a fast as hell car but by hp/ltr standards its not that impressive from an engineer standpoint.

I dont care to get into arguments about what cost what. Its your money and its my money. I dont and never have said that the Subaru is the best car in the world. I was just commenting on how the different displacement engines make different power per liter and how your dyno charts did not impress me in the least bit. Take it as an insult or add to the thread. If you think I slammed you then I am sorry man.

Lets look at some things:

Turbo Hyabusa: 400hp/ltr
Evolution lancer: 135hp/ltr
WRX: 113.5hp/ltr
VW Jetta,golf,beetle 100hp/ltr
Audi S4: 95hp/ltr
Ford Foucs: 85hp/ltr
honda civic: 80hp/ltr
Z06: 75hp per liter
Nissan Altima: 75hp/ltr

Thats interesing and worth discussion no?

CT

Originally posted by philip_g



can you not read? the answer is right there.

Why are you getting bent over a car? :lol: is your self esteem so low that you define yourself by your car? or does it make your penis feel bigger? Are you just bent because deep inside you agree? Maybe somewhere in your brain you realize you drive a below average quality economy car with a turbo slapped on it.

No actually I have never said my car was the best. I would rather have another car besides the WRX because of the way Subaru screwed me on warranty but I dont hate on my car. I know there are beter cars out there like the Z06 for example but WRX's can be made to have as much power as a Z06 as well. Sorry I went on a rant and I said some pretty crappy things but you got me riled up a bit. I am not out to making this a pissing war. I do however think that Jmott has the typical Covette owner attitude that most owners of those cars have. I still dont understand why you own a car that you talk so much trash about. :confused:

geronimo66, I am not hating on domestics at all. I happen to love the last model Trans Am ram air, and would get one but I would probably kill myself in a car like that. Like I said before the only reason I went on a rant was because I dont understand how someone can hate on a car they own. If they dont like the WRX then dont drive it, it is as simple as that. And by the way what gives you the right to tell me to get lost? What useful peice of information have you provided?

Originally posted by jmott
227hp / 2.0 liters = 113hp/liter
700hp turbo vette = 120hp/liter


hmmm

Stock off the showroom floor WRX vs a heavy modified Twin turbo v8?

Still does not impress me.

C

when your car almost goes into a flatspin from the wind as he passes you you'll be impressed.

:devil:

~v6

p.s. How many people you think will be impressed when a Z06 goes by and you say "Oh that cars got nothin... My car makes more power per liter" :D

Originally posted by V6TurboTA
All i gotta say is my friends Z06 is as fast as Easy streets car and its a completely daily driveable car. Full leather, A/C, Cruise Control...

10.10 @ 142mph on M & H ET street's

That was with the stock "lo tek" 350ci motor

I dont care how much money invested, or anything else.

Fast is fast...

WRX... is not fast :)

~v6


Good points V6. But ESX has been in the 9s for a while now.

CT

Originally posted by V6TurboTA
when your car almost goes into a flatspin from the wind as he passes you you'll be impressed.

:devil:

~v6

p.s. How many people you think will be impressed when a Z06 goes by and you say "Oh that cars got nothin... My car makes more power per liter" :D

Its a discussion of technology. Its still not impressive from an engineering standpoint. Your friend is just past a stock WRX in hp/ltr. In fact your wrx is probably making more power per ltr this his vette.

We all realize your friends car is fast man. You have been bringing this up on a subaru forum for what? 6months. We have all read it over and over. The first time it was cool and we where all impressed at the ET's. The second time we all started to vomit with bordom.

Now, Go suck your twin turbo vette friends dick some more.

CT

thats a good point too.

I guess we will have to see what his 427 C5R runs.

Not that far away with the stock shortblock tho.

This car is equal to the easy street car in mods (http://www.lingenfelter.com/lpe%20-%208%20sec%20Vette.mov)

But im sure that doesnt do anything for you either :)

~v6

Originally posted by AZScoobie


Now, Go suck your twin turbo vette friends dick some more.

CT

Dont be sad :devil:

and for the record.. what makes you any better than me? Your in a thread that has nothing to do with you, about Z06's that I didnt start. I'm just sitting here happily passing the time pissing you off... :alien:

~v6

Originally posted by V6TurboTA


Dont be sad :devil:

and for the record.. what makes you any better than me? Your in a thread that has nothing to do with you, about Z06's that I didnt start. I'm just sitting here happily passing the time pissing you off... :alien:

~v6


Hahaha... You should know by now that A. You wont piss me off V6 and B. I always win! ehehehe. Now go to bed, its past your bedtime youngin.


CT

Im a youngin :)

... i wish...

and you should know by now that I dont sleep :)

Isnt this the "Proven power bragging forum?" Not the "Hp per liter" forum?

Isnt that on club Si?

~v6

Originally posted by 02_Scooby_WRX

I still dont understand why you own a car that you talk so much trash about. :confused:

I'm not talking trash, I'm speaking the truth. The WRX is a great car, FOR 25 GRAND. Beyond that... well there are better options. Hell go into the transmission forum. TH first page has at least 2 or three "grinding in gear X" or "blew 1st gear tonight" posts.

Originally posted by V6TurboTA
thats a good point too.

I guess we will have to see what his 427 C5R runs.

Not that far away with the stock shortblock tho.

This car is equal to the easy street car in mods (http://www.lingenfelter.com/lpe%20-%208%20sec%20Vette.mov)

But im sure that doesnt do anything for you either :)

~v6

Hold on man are you referencing a ~200K vette to a motor swapped WRX??:confused: In all sanity I dont think this is even genetically a fruit to apples comparison- Should we maybe call in some boxer bretheren to even the score? GTs?:D


[I'm not talking trash, I'm speaking the truth. The WRX is a great car, FOR 25 GRAND. Beyond that... well there are better options. Hell go into the transmission forum. TH first page has at least 2 or three "grinding in gear X" or "blew 1st gear tonight" posts.]

I dont agree at all the EVO is the only better option right now the WRX should only be viewed as an appetizer and is mild in comparison to the EVO, STi or RA transplanted WRX- These are were real performance is at and the WRX should be viewed as a RS with a detuned EJ 205 in it, There are just so many things that these civilized rally racers do right a "jack-of-all trades" Thats what I prefer you can run what you brung anywere anytime with these cars were as the vettes and other touring or sports cars are only in their "element" in very certain arenas- Not for me.

Originally posted by V6TurboTA
Im a youngin :)

... i wish...

and you should know by now that I dont sleep :)

Isnt this the "Proven power bragging forum?" Not the "Hp per liter" forum?

Isnt that on club Si?

~v6

Do they really have that forum? Link me up? Maybe I can start a discussion about technology with those guys.

I know you dont sleep. Its obvious from your relentless pounding you give people on the forums.

CT

Originally posted by MP5


Hold on man are you referencing a ~200K vette to a motor swapped WRX??:confused: In all sanity I dont think this is even genetically a fruit to apples comparison- Should we maybe call in some boxer bretheren to even the score? GTs?:D




V6, Please dont tell me that Vette is $200k with its 120hp per litr output!

CT

Lingenfelter has a 2.2L ecotec cavalier that makes 1080hp.

490hp per liter?

Put that in your techno pipe and smoke it.

Ran 7.66@179mph go technology!!! :disco:

The car is for sale and can be had for under $75k complete if im not mistaken.

And who said anything about $200k for the vette... I sure didnt.

My point was the easy street car has been TOTALLY modified, possibly more than that vette. Not how much money was invested. I dont know how they get people to pay so much money for their products, but more power to them. :)

And on that note.. I think I'll go to bed :D

~v6

Now THIS is proven power bragging at it's best! :disco:

Here's a relavent question:

What is the zip-tie mod?

VV

P.S. What brand bridge did you go with. I've got one of the original Halltech "Street Vac" setups with his CF MAG. Love it.

Originally posted by jmott
227hp / 2.0 liters = 113hp/liter
700hp turbo vette = 120hp/liter


hmmm
I was with you until this point.:rolleyes:
Comparing a STOCK wrx motor to a far from stock vette motor is just plain stupid.

Originally posted by philip_g


I'm not talking trash, I'm speaking the truth. The WRX is a great car, FOR 25 GRAND. Beyond that... well there are better options. Hell go into the transmission forum. TH first page has at least 2 or three "grinding in gear X" or "blew 1st gear tonight" posts.

Yeah I guess the WRX is the only car that has problems. :rolleyes: I guess when you are so focused on how much you hate your car you cant see how terrible other cars are as well. EVERY car has problems or eventually has problems it is just part of life. Name a car that has went without any kind of problems, bet you can't.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

greg louGAYNESS has just stepped in the house....this thread is going to be pointless i have a feeeeeeling

apparently you cannot read.
I did not say the WRX was a bad car.
quite the contrary.

I said it was a great car.

and if you want to get into stupid HP/$ debates then a old 5.0 mustang has got as all beat.

might as well shoot ourselves now.

enjoy being an idiot!



Originally posted by 02_Scooby_WRX


Oh yeah? I havent found one to out run my WRX yet. SRT-4 is cheap and affordable by most 16 year old F&F fans. The amount of garbage that I have read from the members over at the SRT-4 forums proves to me that this is the mentality of the people who own those cars.

One question for your. Why do you still bother posting here if you think the WRX is such a bad car? Why dont you join other people who love the car you own and post on the corvette forums? If you need help finding them I can help you search it really isnt that hard.

Wow you made 370 to the wheel good for you, WRX's have made that same power and more all totalling out to be less money than your Corvette. Big deal, I am not in this for a battle of which car is beter because there is no PERFECT car in the world as there is always something beter or a car with more mods. Get over it!!! If you feel the need to talk more trash to make yourself feel beter about your car please take it to OT where there is plenty of bandwidth for you to waste.

Make that 2 for the count.

haha

this IS the forum for bragging

oh wait, that was prolly your point =)


Originally posted by geronimo66
jmott, what a jerk... why would you post about the power your car is making? Why would you so openly ask for a fight like this. Why don't you go and find a forum for bragging:rolleyes:

02-your an ass. simple as that. I still can't see what the heck you even jump this thread for... ahhh get lost!

yes it is interesting and worth discussion.

however when I put out some information regarding hp/liter considerations, they were completely ignored and you just repeated the same crap about the engineering being unimpressive.

so lets recap:

1. turbo motors have downsides, such as turbo lag, complexity, added points of failure, cost, heat, realibity.

2. DOHC motors are BIGGER AND HEAVIER than their pushrod counterparts, all else being equal

When the goal is a 405hp motor that can withstand road racing duty in stock form, a wide powerband with instant throttle response, there are two possible answers.

1. something like the M5s motor, a 5 liter DOHC setup with variable cam timing. the cam timing gives it as much low end punch as a slightly larger engine, and lets it breath up to 394 hp. cool engine. However its bigger and heavier than the vettes engine, and far more costly

2. A big pushrod v8. the clear and obvious choice when you want a (relatively) affordable high hp car.


Originally posted by AZScoobie




Turbo Hyabusa: 400hp/ltr
Evolution lancer: 135hp/ltr
WRX: 113.5hp/ltr
VW Jetta,golf,beetle 100hp/ltr
Audi S4: 95hp/ltr
Ford Foucs: 85hp/ltr
honda civic: 80hp/ltr
Z06: 75hp per liter
Nissan Altima: 75hp/ltr

Thats interesing and worth discussion no?

CT

is it as stupid as comparing the HP/liter of a turbo motor against a naturally aspirated motor?

you are like a child, that wanders into a movie...



Originally posted by Davenow

I was with you until this point.:rolleyes:
Comparing a STOCK wrx motor to a far from stock vette motor is just plain stupid.

take the lid off the air filter box
use zip ties to hold the filter in place.

CF bridge from LAPD
looks nice, probably doesn't do anything

Originally posted by VetteVert
Here's a relavent question:

What is the zip-tie mod?

VV

P.S. What brand bridge did you go with. I've got one of the original Halltech "Street Vac" setups with his CF MAG. Love it.

Originally posted by jmott
apparently you cannot read.
I did not say the WRX was a bad car.
quite the contrary.

I said it was a great car.

and if you want to get into stupid HP/$ debates then a old 5.0 mustang has got as all beat.

might as well shoot ourselves now.

enjoy being an idiot!





Im the idiot? :lol: I find this very funny since you have to brag about your car which in all reality isnt very impressive as AZScoobie has proved. Wow you have a stock Z06 good for you, now why dont you do us all a favor and go join the Corvette forums and be with people with the same mentality as yourself. You are not contributing any useful information of any kind so why waste the bandwidth of posting?
I guess you need a big power car to make up for other things and bragging about here helps your low self esteem.
I enjoy a good arguement and your petty comments are meaningless to me so carry on. :D :lol: :lol:

Originally posted by V6TurboTA
Lingenfelter has a 2.2L ecotec cavalier that makes 1080hp.

490hp per liter?

Put that in your techno pipe and smoke it.

Ran 7.66@179mph go technology!!! :disco:

The car is for sale and can be had for under $75k complete if im not mistaken.

And who said anything about $200k for the vette... I sure didnt.

My point was the easy street car has been TOTALLY modified, possibly more than that vette. Not how much money was invested. I dont know how they get people to pay so much money for their products, but more power to them. :)

And on that note.. I think I'll go to bed :D

~v6

Now thats what I am talking about! I have seen the car up close and was just 50ft away when John spun around and smacked the wall at sears point. His car was FWD with that ECOtech.

CT

its the bragging forum genius!

and AZscoobie has proved nothing!

the is prove POWER bragging.
not proven ENGINEERNIG bragging. Either way he failed both.

you also fail the prove DEBATING bragging, as you completely failed to even address the points I brought up (TWICE!)

do you know what a policy debate judge would do to you?

they would probably walk out of the room!

:LOL:


Originally posted by 02_Scooby_WRX


Im the idiot? :lol: I find this very funny since you have to brag about your car which in all reality isnt very impressive as AZScoobie has proved. Wow you have a stock Z06 good for you, now why dont you do us all a favor and go join the Corvette forums and be with people with the same mentality as yourself. You are not contributing any useful information of any kind so why waste the bandwidth of posting?
I guess you need a big power car to make up for other things and bragging about here helps your low self esteem.
I enjoy a good arguement and your petty comments are meaningless to me so carry on. :D :lol: :lol:

here at work im looking at data coming from a 3300hp engine

its used as a pump at an oil well.

its displacement is prolly 100 liters or something

what a stupid domestic POS

not impressive.

:lol:


Originally posted by AZScoobie


Now thats what I am talking about! I have seen the car up close and was just 50ft away when John spun around and smacked the wall at sears point. His car was FWD with that ECOtech.

CT

Originally posted by jmott
its the bragging forum genius!

and AZscoobie has proved nothing!

the is prove POWER bragging.
not proven ENGINEERNIG bragging. Either way he failed both.

you also fail the prove DEBATING bragging, as you completely failed to even address the points I brought up (TWICE!)

do you know what a policy debate judge would do to you?

they would probably walk out of the room!

:LOL:





what would you like me to prove man?

CT

Originally posted by AZScoobie



what would you like me to prove man?

CT

nothing

here is something else interesting to discuss for you though:

total engine weight of EJ20T = 125kg =~ 275.8 pounds
I found this on a website and it said they think this is without the turbo/intercooler included. feel free to correct this.

at a stock 227hp that is .82 horsepower per pound

the z06 motor is 497pounds

making .81 horsepower per pound

almost identical HP per pound out of each engine.

lot of good that turbo and technology did!

AZScoobie, I've said it once and I'll say it again...hp/liter accomplishes nothing in the real world. Do you really think the Civic trailing 30 carlengths behind still looks cool because his car has more hp/liter? If that impresses you from your 'engineering' mindset, fine, but there are far more impressive things out there than turbo technology that's been around for decades.

Something else to consider, is the 'best' engineering a car with the most loaded (read: hp/liter) engine or the most power/reliablility? GM tested the LS1 for 500 (yes, 500) hours at 5500rpm in the lab without failure. They also ran a C5 at 170mph for a full tank of gas on many occasions. Certainly that demonstrates some engineering clout, wouldn't you agree? Hopefully that also demonstrates the advantages of displacement and lower hp/liter...think in terms of Corvette's design intent...Le Mans type enduro racing.

they also tested the z06 for 24 hours of continous road racing.
thats 24 hours on the track. they stopped the clock when they had to come in for fuel/tire changes etc.


Originally posted by QuicksilverC5
AZScoobie, I've said it once and I'll say it again...hp/liter accomplishes nothing in the real world. Do you really think the Civic trailing 30 carlengths behind still looks cool because his car has more hp/liter? If that impresses you from your 'engineering' mindset, fine, but there are far more impressive things out there than turbo technology that's been around for decades.

Something else to consider, is the 'best' engineering a car with the most loaded (read: hp/liter) engine or the most power/reliablility? GM tested the LS1 for 500 (yes, 500) hours at 5500rpm in the lab without failure. They also ran a C5 at 170mph for a full tank of gas on many occasions. Certainly that demonstrates some engineering clout, wouldn't you agree? Hopefully that also demonstrates the advantages of displacement and lower hp/liter...think in terms of Corvette's design intent...Le Mans type enduro racing.

Originally posted by jmott
its the bragging forum genius!

and AZscoobie has proved nothing!

the is prove POWER bragging.
not proven ENGINEERNIG bragging. Either way he failed both.

you also fail the prove DEBATING bragging, as you completely failed to even address the points I brought up (TWICE!)

do you know what a policy debate judge would do to you?

they would probably walk out of the room!

:LOL:




Yes, this is the power proven bragging rights forum and guess what site this forum is apart of? A Subaru club. Notice the word Subaru and not the word Corvette. If we want to know about your power we would go and check it out on the Corvette board. Your car doesnt impress me at all so all of your BS is just a waste. I know that on a track AZScoobie's car would give you a good run for your money if not smear you all over the track.
What have you proven? That your stock Z06 has 370 to the wheels, wow thats nice. Wanna a cookie???? :lol: :lol:

Common and keep me intertained I love to see how ignorant you Corvette owners can get.

I am amazed at how much some people hate. Maybe its just a I hate america thing... who knows. All I know is, that I love cars, cars of all kinds.

someone please kill this thread.

Originally posted by geronimo66
I am amazed at how much some people hate. Maybe its just a I hate america thing... who knows. All I know is, that I love cars, cars of all kinds.

someone please kill this thread.

I am not hating on any car, so I dont see where you come off saying something like that. I like all kinds of cars as well, some Domestic and Some imports, I am not biased to one type of car or where a car is made. I just dont care for the attitude that most Domestic owners, primarily Corvette owners, have and I have seen it from several individuals I have come across. Now I am not saying that all Domestic owners have bad attitudes or think there cars is God's gift, because I have meet some very cool domestic owners that just enjoy cars for cars and not where they are made or their displacement.

I usually have something stupid to offer... but you guys leave me speachless :)

Good job :)

~v6

02_Scooby_WRX - If I recall correctly, all I did was post my dyno numbers here.

I did that because I used to have a WRX, and know and love a lot of friends here and was just sharing.

I didn't start the 'BS' until people brought out the retarded hp/liter arguments. I hate to see stupidity anywhere so I thought I would point out why HP/liter is a silly thing to hinge ones admiration of an engine over.

Ive gotten some updated info, the EJ20T is about 300lbs dry (without oil/coolant in it) including turbo and intercooler

so in fact is makes far worse power per pound than the z06 engine.

I thought the whole point of DOHC design and turbos was to get more power for less weight? hrmmmm

go go technology!

;)

note: The STI, which wont have an appreciably heavier engine will actually beat the z06 hp/pound figure, as any great turbo engine should!



Originally posted by 02_Scooby_WRX


I am not hating on any car, so I dont see where you come off saying something like that. I like all kinds of cars as well, some Domestic and Some imports, I am not biased to one type of car or where a car is made. I just dont care for the attitude that most Domestic owners, primarily Corvette owners, have and I have seen it from several individuals I have come across. Now I am not saying that all Domestic owners have bad attitudes or think there cars is God's gift, because I have meet some very cool domestic owners that just enjoy cars for cars and not where they are made or their displacement.

please indicate false or misleading statements I have made.

I was running 12.9s with a modified stock turboed WRX, and winning autocrosses with the same car before most of you guys were even members of the forum buddy.

Ive owned and raced german, american, and japanese cars.
love em all.

So please, indicate the false or misleading statements I have made. I would hate to be spreading stupidity


Originally posted by 02_Scooby_WRX

Common and keep me intertained I love to see how ignorant you Corvette owners can get.

Keep going Jmott you are proving my point by every post you make. You just keeping digging the hole your in deeper and deeper.

How low can you go??? :lol: :lol:

Originally posted by jmott
The subaru is turbocharged at around 14psi.
its effective displacement at that boost is about 4 liters.
at 4 effective liters it makes 227hp
with cranked up boost and eauhst about 280

with a big turbo and all of the above as much as 350+

The z06 makes 405hp with 5.7liters and no boost.

There are advantages to naturally aspirated power. No turbo lag for instance, huge area under the hp and torque curves (as opposed to, say an S2000) Also there is increased reliability under severe conditions like road racing. No intercooler heat soak to worry about.

Chevy didnt choose to make 405hp with a big v8 because they are stupid, they did so because that sort of power band is most appropriate for a vette.

despite this huge engine, the z06 still comes in weighing the same as a WRX, despite have a tougher 6 speed gearbox, 295/265 tires and huge wheels.

Not to mention it has a superior front/rear weight ratio (51/49) to the wrx

Not to mention it will outhandle the WRX in autocross or road racing compeitions.

Now I do miss the subaru at times, the AWD launches were great, and dirt roads that I would explore with the WRX have to be avoided now. The WRX is an incredible combination of high power, roomy interior, small exterior size, and awd grip.

but lets not throw out the usual stupid arguments about displacement. turbocharging a small motor isn't rocket science or high tech. Its a design choice. One any car company on the face of the earth is capable of handling.



Nicely stated.

AZ, I'll say this: You can bet your aZZ that if Chevrolet so desired, they (or Ford / Cosworth) could do whatever they wanted.....it's a market-driven economy, remember?

200 hp/liter? Big deal; A 40 year old Chrysler design makes 725 hp /liter.....

Originally posted by 02_Scooby_WRX
Keep going Jmott you are proving my point by every post you make. You just keeping digging the hole your in deeper and deeper.

How low can you go??? :lol: :lol:

You tell me.
you are right here next to me in this hole!

Originally posted by 02_Scooby_WRX


Your car doesnt impress me at all so all of your BS is just a waste. I know that on a track AZScoobie's car would give you a good run for your money if not smear you all over the track.


I'd take that bet for my 401K. I've owned both.

Originally posted by V6TurboTA
when your car almost goes into a flatspin from the wind as he passes you you'll be impressed.

:devil:

~v6

p.s. How many people you think will be impressed when a Z06 goes by and you say "Oh that cars got nothin... My car makes more power per liter" :D

I'll be impressed when a ZO6 anywhere near stock can hang with my mostly stock car (intake, exhaust) They just always seem sluggish :D

I have a friend out here running 11.7's with a Z06 with basic mods (air filter, tires, thermostat) not much more. what are you running?

and must i remind you so soon? (http://www.lingenfelter.com/images/lpevettevsviper.wmv)

Vipers are about $20k more and cost just as much to modify

Either way, that thing KILLS modified vipers, nevermind almost stock ones now, so whats the difference :)

He had a GTS and hated it. To each his own...



and I quote... "The viper is a distant memory... Goooodnight!" :lol:

~v6

Originally posted by V6TurboTA
I have a friend out here running 11.7's with a Z06 with basic mods (air filter, tires, thermostat) not much more. what are you running?

and must i remind you so soon? (http://www.lingenfelter.com/images/lpevettevsviper.wmv)

Vipers are about $20k more and cost just as much to modify

Either way, that thing KILLS modified vipers, nevermind almost stock ones now, so whats the difference :)

He had a GTS and hated it. To each his own...



and I quote... "The viper is a distant memory... Goooodnight!" :lol:

~v6

Hey TA Id never hate on ya man but I felt a little like puking with the analingus of the tower caller and you (the filmer) bevis laugh in sensual eroticism and lust. It was quite sick. Enough the vette was very fast but are we talking about one of those $40,000.00 packages you pointed out yesterday?

Originally posted by 02_Scooby_WRX


I am not hating on any car, so I dont see where you come off saying something like that. I like all kinds of cars as well, some Domestic and Some imports, I am not biased to one type of car or where a car is made. I just dont care for the attitude that most Domestic owners, primarily Corvette owners, have and I have seen it from several individuals I have come across. Now I am not saying that all Domestic owners have bad attitudes or think there cars is God's gift, because I have meet some very cool domestic owners that just enjoy cars for cars and not where they are made or their displacement.

I dont know if you are trying to say that jmott has "the attitude that most Domestic owners" have but to me it seemed like he had no attitude at all. All he did was post his dyno run and everyone jumped down his throat. I dont believe he ever said anything like the wrx sucks or "theres no replacement for displacement", in fact it was AZ who brought up the whole hp/liters thing. Also i dont know why you say he is digging himself a hole. All his post seem pretty well formed and intellegent. And like he said he had a wrx running 12.9's before you were even on this board. So why dont you just calm down a bit and let him post his dyno runs, and if you dont want to see what a Z06 puts out, dont open the thread.

p.s. to V6-

in the video when the announcer says something like "the guy drove it here, got 30 miles to the gallon blah blah blah". does that car really get 30mpg? if it does thats just crazy.

ROFL... Nice speculation my friend. That was a random person that video taped that run. Lingenfelter got their hands on it somehow. I have no idea who it was. That was funny that you ASSuMEd it was me though.

The car was a stage 1 ($22k)car, but is beyond that now.

And Boysetsfire, It gets close to stock mpg when you dont beat on it tho. 30mph? I doubt it.

~v6

Originally posted by 02_Scooby_WRX
Keep going Jmott you are proving my point by every post you make. You just keeping digging the hole your in deeper and deeper.

How low can you go??? :lol: :lol:

haha, rofl, ur quite the idiot my friend :)

What really are u trying to prove about jack mott?? (his other alias on boards).. i have seen and read his posts on the cobbtuning.com boards he actively posted in im guessing roughly half a year ago, and in every post he has made, he was informative, polite, courteous, and a decent human being.. Please, why dont u share what this "hole" is to us all?

Everyone on the cobbtuning boards respected this guy, he was running a best of 12.98 or something i believe with a modified stock turbo, he's been around the WRX block, and now he's in the z06 territory. In almost every post even in this thread he has been courteous, much more so than any other member on this board, cut him some damn slack, the board is "PROVEN POWER BRAGGING" and he just bragged, wth's ur problem with it??

He can afford that Z06, a car, by almost any standard, is faster than the WRX on both the drag and on auto-x, and costs twice as much as well. Simply put, he has the BETTER of the two cars. How useful is HP/Liter if it fails to deliever the HP? The z06 offers crank 400+ HP, the WRX with 227, a higher ratio DOES NOT mean better speed. The underlying goal of HP/Liter is in the end.. go faster, we're not here to build a damn science model of highest efficiency, we're here to get the power, one way or another ;)

and the z06 simply has MORE HP than a WRX. Wanna go into mod territory? MOD FOR MOD, DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR, A Z06 WILL OUTPERFORM THE WRX... 370 to the wheels is nothing to scoff at, and its more power than about 95% of nasioc Subaru owners have or ever will have on their impreza's.. so lets end the hate yea? Point is, Jmott is an AWESOME guy.. leave him alone :lol:

Originally posted by 02_Scooby_WRX
Keep going Jmott you are proving my point by every post you make. You just keeping digging the hole your in deeper and deeper.

How low can you go??? :lol: :lol:

You get the ass-clown award for that one dude. Congrats!

Originally posted by QweQwe


haha, rofl, ur quite the idiot my friend :)

What really are u trying to prove about jack mott?? (his other alias on boards).. i have seen and read his posts on the cobbtuning.com boards he actively posted in im guessing roughly half a year ago, and in every post he has made, he was informative, polite, courteous, and a decent human being.. Please, why dont u share what this "hole" is to us all?

Everyone on the cobbtuning boards respected this guy, he was running a best of 12.98 or something i believe with a modified stock turbo, he's been around the WRX block, and now he's in the z06 territory. In almost every post even in this thread he has been courteous, much more so than any other member on this board, cut him some damn slack, the board is "PROVEN POWER BRAGGING" and he just bragged, wth's ur problem with it??

He can afford that Z06, a car, by almost any standard, is faster than the WRX on both the drag and on auto-x, and costs twice as much as well. Simply put, he has the BETTER of the two cars. How useful is HP/Liter if it fails to deliever the HP? The z06 offers crank 400+ HP, the WRX with 227, a higher ratio DOES NOT mean better speed. The underlying goal of HP/Liter is in the end.. go faster, we're not here to build a damn science model of highest efficiency, we're here to get the power, one way or another ;)

and the z06 simply has MORE HP than a WRX. Wanna go into mod territory? MOD FOR MOD, DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR, A Z06 WILL OUTPERFORM THE WRX... 370 to the wheels is nothing to scoff at, and its more power than about 95% of nasioc Subaru owners have or ever will have on their impreza's.. so lets end the hate yea? Point is, Jmott is an AWESOME guy.. leave him alone :lol:

Oh Barf we all know jmott hes a bigger boy than you and can take care of his self. The only prob ive had with him is his AL like approach to things sing the praises of the WRX and the FP turbo(which I have always deemed as crap), then the M5 which lasted all of what 6 months? But got the most liberal of praise then the almighty Zo6 and talking about strapping a turbo to the hood and still running 12s. But he is a good guy he just pushes his philosophy as gospel- and thats good for folks like you;) But I have found little to cling onto

Originally posted by V6TurboTA
I have a friend out here running 11.7's with a Z06 with basic mods (air filter, tires, thermostat) not much more. what are you running?

and must i remind you so soon? (http://www.lingenfelter.com/images/lpevettevsviper.wmv)

Vipers are about $20k more and cost just as much to modify

I don't shop at the blue light special to save a few bucks. I'm not bargain hunting.

I find it funny that when the point that a WRX is cheaper than a ZO6 was brought up, it was blown off. Now another car is brought up that is faster than the vette, the point of price gets brought up. :lol: Can't have your cake and eat it too.

Either way, that thing KILLS modified vipers, nevermind almost stock ones now, so whats the difference :)

~v6

You want to talk modified? Ha. There is a WRX snooping around here that will bitch slap your buddies ZO6 back to Bowling Green... but that's not fair because it's modded right? Well stock for stock, Sorry, the ZO6 just can't hang my friend. I believe more that a few people have rung off 11.6X second slips on a bone stock Viper. No K&Ns or thermostats needed. Stock Pilots too. No slicks. Hahaha put slicks on a viper and run an equally modded ZO6... :lol: :lol: get real. You want to talk stock, talk stock.

Originally posted by mlambert


You get the ass-clown award for that one dude. Congrats!

Alright I guess I will recieve it when you recieve your moron of the month award huh?

Originally posted by 02_Scooby_WRX


Alright I guess I will recieve it when you recieve your moron of the month award huh?

Maybe if I earn it.

He even pm'd me this:

hah
Whatever loser


:lol:

Originally posted by QuicksilverC5
AZScoobie, I've said it once and I'll say it again...hp/liter accomplishes nothing in the real world. Do you really think the Civic trailing 30 carlengths behind still looks cool because his car has more hp/liter? If that impresses you from your 'engineering' mindset, fine, but there are far more impressive things out there than turbo technology that's been around for decades.

Something else to consider, is the 'best' engineering a car with the most loaded (read: hp/liter) engine or the most power/reliablility? GM tested the LS1 for 500 (yes, 500) hours at 5500rpm in the lab without failure. They also ran a C5 at 170mph for a full tank of gas on many occasions. Certainly that demonstrates some engineering clout, wouldn't you agree? Hopefully that also demonstrates the advantages of displacement and lower hp/liter...think in terms of Corvette's design intent...Le Mans type enduro racing.


QS. We are not doubting anything about the corvette. Had this post been titled "Corvettes have ****ty engineering behind them" your post would have been perfect. We are also not talking about what is faster then what. I only brought that up because it was suggested that Jmotts Z06 is faster then my car. Its not, I said it was not and that was the end. I have proof that on Scoobymile.com.

What I was talking about is HP/ltr and how technolgy has is helping in that dept. I found it interesting. Jmott made a post where he was sound excited about making 370whp to two wheels on his Vette. I found that to be very disapointing.

CT

Originally posted by AZScoobie



I only brought that up because it was suggested that Jmotts Z06 is faster then my car. Its not, I said it was not and that was the end. I have proof that on Scoobymile.com.

What I was talking about is HP/ltr and how technolgy has is helping in that dept. I found it interesting. Jmott made a post where he was sound excited about making 370whp to two wheels on his Vette. I found that to be very disapointing.

CT

You guys kill me.

jmott, put a set of slicks on the ZO6, and let's get this debate over with. If it hooks, the vette will go at least a 12.00, if not 11.90.

AZ, with all due respect, you do not know what you're referring to (the LS6). It made 370 atw, gets 29 mpg on the freeway, and has the capability to make ~ another 350 or so....naturally aspirated. I'd call that a pretty efficient engine. The cylinder heads are works of art....hence the gas mileage / efficiency. You called it a pig...the EJ205 is rather bovine: How efficient is running the AFR @ 10.5:1 to alleviate detonation? It's not. Just because the Z06 isn't your idea of a dyno queen doesn't mean it's a pig.
:)

QweQwe – You post was right on.

Originally posted by MP5
The only prob ive had with him is his AL like approach to things

You either don’t know AL or you don’t know Jack!! You could not be any further from the truth.


Originally posted by AZScoobie
What I was talking about is HP/ltr

Who cares about hp per liter, seriously!? Leave that argument for the ricers please.

At the end of the day after you have lost will anyone really care that you have more hp per liter?

One of the other things you are leaving out is potential. How much hp do you really think your engine is capable of? Now how much hp do you think the Z06 engine is capable of?

Our cars are great performance cars for the money, but you give us a bad name by acting this ignorant. The Z06 is hands down a better performance car than our four door econo boxes will ever be. Give props where props are due!


Torch

Originally posted by Torch
QweQwe – You post was right on.



You either don’t know AL or you don’t know Jack!! You could not be any further from the truth.




Who cares about hp per liter, seriously!? Leave that argument for the ricers please.

At the end of the day after you have lost will anyone really care that you have more hp per liter?

One of the other things you are leaving out is potential. How much hp do you really think your engine is capable of? Now how much hp do you think the Z06 engine is capable of?

Our cars are great performance cars for the money, but you give us a bad name by acting this ignorant. The Z06 is hands down a better performance car than our four door econo boxes will ever be. Give props where props are due!


Torch

Watch it now the texas crew is wondering out of the OT TX regional the backup crew has arrived. ;) My comment might be wrong from your perspective but is as stated in mine. You also took it out of the context is was to be evaluated in. Now as far as AZScoobies comments were concerned I think he did clarify and try to make himself more clear. I think if we are to compare his car to jmotts stock car the zo6 more than holds its ows IN STOCK FORM no less. Yup the zo6 deserves credit. No doubt about that its big honking engine only puts out 75HP/L in stock form but is huge and capable of much much more.

:lol: :lol: I love it when the feathers fly on NASIOC.:lol: :lol:

Originally posted by n2xlr8n


You guys kill me.

jmott, put a set of slicks on the ZO6, and let's get this debate over with. If it hooks, the vette will go at least a 12.00, if not 11.90.

AZ, with all due respect, you do not know what you're referring to (the LS6). It made 370 atw, gets 29 mpg on the freeway, and has the capability to make ~ another 350 or so....naturally aspirated. I'd call that a pretty efficient engine. The cylinder heads are works of art....hence the gas mileage / efficiency. You called it a pig...the EJ205 is rather bovine: How efficient is running the AFR @ 10.5:1 to alleviate detonation? It's not. Just because the Z06 isn't your idea of a dyno queen doesn't mean it's a pig.
:)


Jmott will have to run 11.80 or better to beat my old time from a year ago with a US EJ205 motor. Without Nitrous I ran 12.24 on pump fuel on the old US motor. Now I have an RA engine as you know that is making much more power. Jmott will have to get Slicks and nitrous to beat me or he will have to go into the engine. Point proven on scoobymile.com. Jmott, either post your ET's and Traps to show that you and your Z06 have gone faster then my car or leave it alone.....

This is a stupid argument and we can go back and forth on this forever. The point is, Someone slammed me saying his vette was faster, Its not, I posted that it was not and lets leave it at that. We all know that we can mod this and mod that to be faster then this car and that car. Its called Bench racing. I went out and worked for months drag racing, having fun. My old times are the fruits of my labor. If they seem important to me then I am sorry but they are.

That pig, AKA the EJ205 still makes 113.5hp per ltr to the Vettes 75. If its pretty to look at and its a model of effeciency then why does it have the same HP per ltr output as a Nissan Family sedan?


CT

Originally posted by Makara


I don't shop at the blue light special to save a few bucks. I'm not bargain hunting.

I find it funny that when the point that a WRX is cheaper than a ZO6 was brought up, it was blown off. Now another car is brought up that is faster than the vette, the point of price gets brought up. :lol: Can't have your cake and eat it too.

Lets stop right here for a second if we may... Go back and look, you'll see I dont really have anything invested in this conversation either way. I dont give a rats ass to compare the WRX to a vette, or compare prices. Apples to Peanut Butter sandwiches... What gave you the impression that I want cake? :)

ok back to the rambling


You want to talk modified? Ha. There is a WRX snooping around here that will bitch slap your buddies ZO6 back to Bowling Green... but that's not fair because it's modded right? Well stock for stock, Sorry, the ZO6 just can't hang my friend. I believe more that a few people have rung off 11.6X second slips on a bone stock Viper. No K&Ns or thermostats needed. Stock Pilots too. No slicks. Hahaha put slicks on a viper and run an equally modded ZO6... :lol: :lol: get real. You want to talk stock, talk stock.

You obviously misunderstood me, or did not watch the video. and FWIW he has never lost to a viper and goes the the big Vette vs Viper track days... Let me guess tho... He's lucky you werent there? :rolleyes:

I was refering to 2 different cars. 1 being a totally basicly Z06 running 11.7. He was one of the quickest "stock" Z06's in the country for a while.

The other, which you think will be... Ha. There is a WRX snooping around here that will bitch slap your buddies ZO6 back to Bowling Green... Ran 10.10@142 on street tires with the STOCK shortblock.

Please... Remind me of which WRX will be bitchslapping him.

Thank you,

~v6

p.s. The guy that owns the TT Z06 had a GTS viper. He ran 11.33@122 iirc. Got it to hook a 1.55 sixty foot on 17" drag radials. Then he sold it because it was a POS. I dont care how fast a viper is, it will never change the fact that its a piece of crap in my mind.

p.s.s Next time dont enter a conversation at the end and you wont be so uninformed.

Originally posted by V6TurboTA



The other, which you think will be... Ran 10.10@142 on street tires with the STOCK shortblock.

Please... Remind me of which WRX will be bitchslapping him.

Thank you,

~v6


I will remind you V6.


Ali, from easystreet. Rigoli built motor and drivetrain. Runing 9's

Dbronx, Ran 9's for a while now on his street Driven WRX.

CT

Wow its getting personal :lol:

Just got another PM from 02_Assclown_WRX:

Whats wrong with you??
What the hell is your problem? Do you think your cool cause you can post insults about me? Get a ****in life you loser! You think because I am not a so-called specialist that I dont have any good info to contribute? Well I got news for you, I am not a post whore like most people like yourself are and post pointless bull**** just to get my post count up. About 90% of my post have been informative information. Its people like you that make Nasioc like Clubsi.

:lol:

You make the dumb comment, I call you an assclown, you bitch at me in private? Reread the stuff you've said in this thread, especially the thing people are quoting you on. Its not my fault you're an idiot man. And to quote you:

Originally posted by 02_Scooby_WRX
You just keeping digging the hole your in deeper and deeper.

How low can you go??? :lol: :lol:

Oh btw, heres your award. You can print it out and hang it up if you like.


http://www.tubas.net/~drew/pics/acaw.jpg

Originally posted by mlambert
Wow its getting personal :lol:

Just got another PM from 02_Assclown_WRX:

Whats wrong with you??
What the hell is your problem? Do you think your cool cause you can post insults about me? Get a ****in life you loser! You think because I am not a so-called specialist that I dont have any good info to contribute? Well I got news for you, I am not a post whore like most people like yourself are and post pointless bull**** just to get my post count up. About 90% of my post have been informative information. Its people like you that make Nasioc like Clubsi.

:lol:

You make the dumb comment, I call you an assclown, you bitch at me in private? Reread the stuff you've said in this thread, especially the thing people are quoting you on. Its not my fault you're an idiot man. And to quote you:



Oh btw, heres your award. You can print it out and hang it up if you like.


http://www.tubas.net/~drew/pics/acaw.jpg


hahaha... You made me spit soda on my


monitor. :lol: :lol: :lol: :rolleyes: :D


C

Easy streets car is not compareable. Not close to the same.

I would like to see some pictures of a 9 second "Daily driven" wrx. Im sure he ran in the 9's, but i doubt its a daily driver.

Like I said before. The Z06 will be back soon and be equally comparable to those cars. We'll just have to wait and see eh?

The car should have 900rwhp when it comes back. Love to see a WRX hang then...

And for you to call out Jmott... All he needs is a NOS kit and your times are out the window. End of story. Does it make you feel better to say your car is quicker than his stock car?

His car against your car no NOS? Spanked...

And please comment on the MPG issue. I would have to say his car (jmotts z06) will get better mpg than your will... whats up with that? How does that come into play with your "Impressive technology" theory?

You have a serious case of Al syndrome. Your car with a complete drivetrain swap with hang with Jmotts stock car... Whoooopiee!!! Mod for mod you will be in his dust.

Do you seriously expect someone to stand up and cheer for you because you can beat a stock Z06 with a car with a motor transplant? It sure seems that way.

~v6

:lol: OMG ROFL so this has to be the ultimate stupidity award, Type R no less- as final and supreme as a triple dog dare! MLambert will have a full pm box for this one:lol: :lol:

Originally posted by mlambert
[B]Wow its getting personal :lol:

Just got another PM from 02_Assclown_WRX:

Whats wrong with you??
What the hell is your problem? Do you think your cool cause you can post insults about me? Get a ****in life you loser! You think because I am not a so-called specialist that I dont have any good info to contribute? Well I got news for you, I am not a post whore like most people like yourself are and post pointless bull**** just to get my post count up. About 90% of my post have been informative information. Its people like you that make Nasioc like Clubsi.

:lol:

You make the dumb comment, I call you an assclown, you bitch at me in private? Reread the stuff you've said in this thread, especially the thing people are quoting you on. Its not my fault you're an idiot man. And to quote you:



Oh btw, heres your award. You can print it out and hang it up if you like.




Well I tried to keep it out of the forums but since you seem to be so childish I guess it didnt matter. I only wish you were a bit closer to me so you could say some of those things to my face. I bet if you met me you would think twice about talking **** to me cause you wouldnt leave laughing but with lights flashing.

I already appologized to the proper people for where I went out of line in a couple of my post in this thread but you sir are truely a moron.

Whatever sorry for trying to keep the BS out of the forums but I guess in this childish neck of the woods that isnt good enough.

Basically if you guys got a problem with me you can all F**K OFF for all I care. None of you morons mean crap to me anyways.

Dont worry about me posting in this thread again cause I am going to be the mature one out of all of you lamers.

:lol: :lol: Later Retards!! Enjoy your pointless arguement. :lol: :lol:

Originally posted by 02_Scooby_WRX

:lol: :lol: Later Retards!! Enjoy your pointless arguement. :lol: :lol:

I was enjoying it before you arrived, and will continue to do so now that your leaving. Thank you for your time though.

~v6

Originally posted by V6TurboTA
Easy streets car is not compareable. Not close to the same.

I would like to see some pictures of a 9 second "Daily driven" wrx. Im sure he ran in the 9's, but i doubt its a daily driver.

Like I said before. The Z06 will be back soon and be equally comparable to those cars. We'll just have to wait and see eh?

The car should have 900rwhp when it comes back. Love to see a WRX hang then...

And for you to call out Jmott... All he needs is a NOS kit and your times are out the window. End of story. Does it make you feel better to say your car is quicker than his stock car?

And please comment on the MPG issue. I would have to say his car (jmotts z06) will get better mpg than your will... whats up with that? How does that come into play with your "Impressive technology" theory?


You are throwing what ifs into this... If he installs a nitrous.. Kit.. IF I did this and he did that.. What a cry baby V6. I thought even you would not cry like an infant. I have explained this time after time. It was said that his car is faster. I simply pointed out that it is not. Jmott is not even the one that keeps bringing this up. He knows his car is slower then mine. Big deal. He is a man for not taking it further.

Why does this always have to get back to Vettes vs Subaru WRX's? Cause you guys are a bunch of bench racers... Thats why.

I dont want to stand up for ESX or anyone else. But I have seen the car three times in person and took pictures of it and watched it race. Its a full interior car complete with floor mats and radio. Nothing was gutted out of the car at all and in fact do to the roll cage its heavier then a stock car. It starts on its own and idles smoother then a stock car and makes much less noise then a WRX with a TB exhaust. It has a license plate and tags and is a complete and whole car. Nothing was cut off or ripped out or gutted. Its a standard issue WRX with 770whp from a 2.5ltr turbocharged engine. It uses a 4EAT automatic subaru transmission. This complete drivetrain package is about $22,000 installed.

Dbronx has a setup tha is about the same. He ran 9's with a manual and then later went to a 4eat subaru auto trans and ran faster. These are just two examples of street driven 9 sec Subarus. There are many more.

29mph is great for the vette. Again. Does not impress me because the vette is 3000 lbs or there abouts and the overdrive loafs the motor along at low Rpms to acheive that mpg.

My WRX gets around 35mpg on the highway. The RA engine is much more effecient with a much higher VE. The old US motor got over 30mpg at 80mph the last trip to vegas up and down hills. Once you get rid of the upipe cat and stock TB exhaust you get a nice 2-3 mph improvement right off the bat.


CT

Well you keep making points on how your not impressed.

If your so unimpressed find a different thread to read?

Your the one thats trying to get a cookie or something trying to say a Z06 is unimpressive because "YOUR" car is almost as fast.

We never asked to have a high tech debate, but you felt it was your calling to bring it to us. Maybe you think your winning because your the only one interested?

Initially I was here to harass Jmott... but your so rediculous I sorta forgot why i was here...

O yea I remember... to waste time.

NEXT!!!

~v6

Originally posted by AZScoobie



First off lets get something strait. His Z06 will not beat my WRX. OK. That said lets move on: ....

...Even when turbo charged they are still way under what most Japanese 4cyl's are making. With the exception of a few Z06's that are built and turbo charged with $20,000-$50,000 in modifications, the powerplant in the vette is not a very good motor in requards to hp/ltr.

CT

The first comment speaks for itself. I cant beleive Al said that...

O wait.. that wasnt Al... :disco:

So then why do you bring up WRX's with over $20k in mods to match a stock motored Z06? Let me guess you meant something else?

Originally posted by V6TurboTA
Well you keep making points on how your not impressed.

If your so unimpressed find a different thread to read?

Your the one thats trying to get a cookie or something trying to say a Z06 is unimpressive because "YOUR" car is almost as fast.

We never asked to have a high tech debate, but you felt it was your calling to bring it to us. Maybe you think your winning because your the only one interested?

Initially I was here to harass Jmott... but your so rediculous I sorta forgot why i was here...

O yea I remember... to waste time.

NEXT!!!

~v6

Actually, A great deal of discussion was sparked on HP per ltr via Email from my original reply to the thread. I wish it would have been posted on this thread because it was interesting conversion and still is. Instead a bunch of weenies had to some how stand up and shout about how good the vette is and ruined it. Read my posts asking everyone not to let this thread get into a Vette vs WRX combat. It did anyways...

I am sorry if you dont agree with me not being impressed about the vette. Its a great car and alot of people like it including you. Thats cool man. But my opinion is my right... Its not your job to change it..

Heading back to the dyno shop.... I will check the thead later tonight.

CT

Originally posted by V6TurboTA

So then why do you bring up WRX's with over $20k in mods to match a stock motored Z06? Let me guess you meant something else?

Ahhh... there it is. Lets see you make fun of us (us being imports vs. you domestics basically) for using EVER so popular comments like:

-We have more hp/liter than you
-We get better gas mileage
-Our cars are more 'advanced' per the reasons above...

Blah blah blah.

AS a Fox body friend of mine said 'How much does the thing cost and how fast does it go?'

So lets just make this REALLY simple. AZScoobie, how much did you spend total (car and mods) to go 11.80? Jmotts unsolicited accolite, aka V6TurboTA how much money did jmott put into his Z06 total (car price + mod)?

From my rough math I will assume the following until further corrected:

-AZScoobie - $23999 base + $10,000 in go-fast mods (being generous here) = a total price of $33,999

-Jmotts Z06 (LOVE that car btw [heh]) - ~$50,000 ... looks like AZScoobies car is quite a bit cheaper... $16,000 cheaper in fact...

EDIT: I just realized V6 boy is talking about $20,000 in mods to a WRX... OOhhh oOOhhhhh... ok ... base car + $23,000 (yes 3000 more but since I was so generous with AZScoobies mod price) for EZ Streets package = a SOLID LOW 10 second car... and you were trying to say that a stock Z06 would meet or beat that kind of straight line performance?

I just love/hate reading pissing matches anymore... I mean really. If you are such a car snob and into 'what if I mod...' crap then so be it but doesn't it get old defending and justifying your worldly possesion after a while?

Originally posted by AZScoobie


But my opinion is my right...

How can I argue that :lol:

Main Entry: opin·ion
Pronunciation: &-'pin-y&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin opinion-, opinio, from opinari
Date: 14th century

a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge b : a generally held view

a : a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert b : the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based

Seeing your right, are we done yet?

~v6

Why do you people refuse to accept the fact that some people dont care how much things cost?

They want to go fast, not effeciently?

Is that something you guys can handle?

I ran in the 9's at over 130mph for a couple thousand dollars... SO WHAT?

You guys are almost as rediculous as I am. The only reason i was here was to say "Big deal". Obviously i wasnt the only one with that intention.

~v6

http://www.lingenfelter.com/lpe%20-%208%20sec%20Vette.mov

Thats comparable to easy streets car. :devil: :devil: :devil:

Originally posted by V6TurboTA
Why do you people refuse to accept the fact that some people dont care how much things cost?


Didn't you bring up price when a Viper was compared to the ZO6? Yeah. I think you did.

Again, had you been paying attention you would have noticed that someone had already brought up the comparasion...

If you feel you have some VALID stupidity to add to our pointless thread, please feel free. But till then...

~v6

You guys are REALLY good at arguing. :D I'd take either Clark's car or Jmott's ANY day. I'm just jealous all the way around. :p

Originally posted by V6TurboTA
Why do you people refuse to accept the fact that some people dont care how much things cost?

It is a jealousy thing I guess. Just like bringing up HP per liter. It is a way to make them feel better about what they have.

To compare a NA engine against a Turbo engine on a HP per liter basis is just plain stupid. If you put a turbo on the Z06 engine it would reach HP levels that our engines could only dream about. At the end of the day the Z06 engine is capable of more horsepower than the Subaru engine…PERIOD!

Like I stated earlier our cars are great performance cars for the money, but all of you give us a bad name by acting this ignorant. The Z06 is hands down a better performance car than our four door econo boxes will ever be. Give props where props are due.

Torch

I cant believe someone quoted me and I agree with everything that follows :)

~v6

Not trying to add fuel to the fire here, but lets take a logical look at the hp/liter argument.

1st and foremost, hp gain per liter gain IS NOT LINEAR. This is not theory, it is proven fact. Stroke your 2.0 to 2.5; did you gain 25% in HP? Didn't think so.

You say (blatant paraphrase) that if the V8 used the same multivalve technology it would make 1000-1500HP. Well, there are multiple cases of higher tech V8s (32valve cobra, M5, Northstar, etc). Last I checked they weren't quite to the 1000-1500HP range. Inherent physical limitations apply here. Look at indy engines and how much money has to be spent to make them rev like a weed eater. $500 into a 2-stroke 250cc engine and you have similar hp/liter of an indy car. Is that impressive? Not to me. It simply isn't a justifiable argument. Other, every-day type factors are much more important: Can it idle in traffic without overheating? Can it run on pump gas? Is it street legal? What kind of performance numbers does it actually turn? etc. etc.

Out of curiousity, do the HP/L guys find the EVO to have much higher technology than the STI? (135.3 vs. 120) Or just at a different state of tune (i.e., LS6 vs. EJ20T).

VV

It seems like thease kinds of fights -Domestic Sportscars Vs. Imported Sportscars- always get into what I call "Mathmatic 1/4 Racing"

I.E.: "Well my High tech Honda Civic makes 140HP Per Liter, and your Low Tech Chevy Camaro makes 57HP per liter, that automatically means im going to beat you in the 1/4 mile by 3 seconds."

or..

"My stock WRX has 13HP per pound (dry weight), while your Camaro only makes 10HP per pound (dry weight), that automatically means Ill beat you in a road track by 10 seconds in my WRX."

The people that dont have respect and think they have the fastest thing on the road always do this to inflate there ego that there car is faster no matter what there up against, they try to find any kind of ratio, per *, etc... that is a bigger outcome on there car vs. what there trying to compare it to.

Originally posted by VetteVert
Not trying to add fuel to the fire here, but lets take a logical look at the hp/liter argument.

1st and foremost, hp gain per liter gain IS NOT LINEAR. This is not theory, it is proven fact. Stroke your 2.0 to 2.5; did you gain 25% in HP? Didn't think so.

You say (blatant paraphrase) that if the V8 used the same multivalve technology it would make 1000-1500HP. Well, there are multiple cases of higher tech V8s (32valve cobra, M5, Northstar, etc). Last I checked they weren't quite to the 1000-1500HP range. Inherent physical limitations apply here. Look at indy engines and how much money has to be spent to make them rev like a weed eater. $500 into a 2-stroke 250cc engine and you have similar hp/liter of an indy car. Is that impressive? Not to me. It simply isn't a justifiable argument. Other, every-day type factors are much more important: Can it idle in traffic without overheating? Can it run on pump gas? Is it street legal? What kind of performance numbers does it actually turn? etc. etc.

Out of curiousity, do the HP/L guys find the EVO to have much higher technology than the STI? (135.3 vs. 120) Or just at a different state of tune (i.e., LS6 vs. EJ20T).

VV

We have had plenty of posts about the glory of Chevy's engine and just from your name alone its obvious you are a chevy fan. One reason I believe the Ls6 is not in the same ball park as other modern designs is that it is in ancient push rod V8. Maybe a damn good one but its still a design that dates back way before most of us where born. Props to Chevy for saving millions using this old design and just updating it and in fact getting some good power numbers for modern emissions restricted Push rod V8 but, its still not impressive as far as technology goes.

I never mentioned multi valves or any specific technology but I will state that there is no doubt, if the engine had Over head cams and 32 valves that it would spin higher and make more power. The biggest gain from Multivalve technology is not HP potential based on increased flow. Honda was really the first to use Multivalve 3 and 4 valve per cyl systems. The reason Honda did this was not because two valves where not flowing enough. They did this for RPM. Four valves moving less, is a less stressful design and is more acurate over two valves. Look this up, its pretty interesting. Honda was forced to go to this setup to solve Problems. Valve float and breakage of valve train parts at high RPM. This is technology.

The EVO has more power per liter over the STI because of Technology. Mitsubishi is running 19 psi worth of boost bone stock off the showroom floor on 91 octane fuel. An effecient intercooler that is front mounted and an engine control system with a very fast and effecient ignition system... This is technology. I wish Subaru had used the EJ207 2.0 ltr motor but for some reason they took the easy way out in winning the HP war. Props to Mitsubishi.

CT

hmm just wondering how advanced my .21 Nitro RC motor is when it makes 2.5HP at 32000RPM's ?

Originally posted by geronimo66
hmm just wondering how advanced my .21 Nitro RC motor is when it makes 2.5HP at 32000RPM's ?

Its incredible. Simply amazing. Its funny. Those motors cost what $150-$300? and use a sleeve bearing and no valves.

CT

AZScoobie,

you are still ignoring a few facts:

1. OHC design is also ancient.
2. OHC engines are larger and heavier than OHV engines.
3. OHC engines are more costly.

OHC is not a superior design, it is just a different design.

If we take the M5 as an example, it uses varaible cam technology, and a OHC multivalve design, and makes 394hp from a 5.0 liter at an 11:1 compression ratio and 7k rpm redline.

the z06 makes 405hp from 5.7liters with a 6.6k redline and 10.5:1 compression ratio.

So what is the better piece of engineering? The expensive, larger, heavier 5.0L motor from BMW

or the 5.7L, lighter, smaller motor that makes a bit more power with a bit less stress ( lower compression ratio)

The answer is neither is the better piece of engineering. Ive owned both engines. The M5 engine is a tad snappier at low rpms thanks to its compression ratio and varaible cam tech. It also manages a higher top speed thanks to its torque curve. It also gets identical mileage to the vette despite being in a heavier car.

But the z06 is more affordable and provides a lighter size and weight which is superior for track and autocross performance.

You will understand a lot more about engineering when you learn what the goals are. The goal is not HP/Liter EVER.

The goals are:
maximize power
maximize reliability
minimize weight
minimize size
maximize fuel economy
minimize cost

These are the goals, and depending on the car the weight of each goal will change. For an M5, power and reliability are big concerns, size/weight/cost arent.

For the vette, size,weight,cost,power,reliabilty are all huge concerns. Fuel economy is not.

The BMW is making nearly 79hp per ltr while the Z06 is making 75. :rolleyes: What I see in the BMW is a wonderful engine that offers an incredible throttle response, Super smooth operation, and a power band that is as wide as your ego. Not to mention a wonderful display of technology in the cam system, lower displacement and higher redline. BMW uses technology and as a result they produce some of the finest engines in the world.

I am going to guess here... Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. We are different people with different backgrounds and as a result me might have different opinions.

I am a racer and have gown up around racing. HP per Ltr is ALWAYS the goal. ALWAYS. There is never a time when this is not the case in racing that I can even think of off the top of my head.

Racing is in my blood. My mom was drag racing her El Camino in 1962 at Carlsbad raceway alone. She tought me how to double clutch and rev match in her Porsche when I was 14 and did not even have a license. As a result, I have a strong racing background and what my ideal is and what impresses me are racing engines which, because of rules the main goal is HP per Ltr. Technolgy wins races. Displacement does not.

Its clear to see that you have learned most of your engineering knowledge about the automotive industry by reading Car magazines such as C&D and motortrend and by watching Car shows on cable TV. Both mediums have provided you with this information because they are driven and exist because of thier advertisers.

CT


Originally posted by jmott
AZScoobie,


If we take the M5 as an example, it uses varaible cam technology, and a OHC multivalve design, and makes 394hp from a 5.0 liter at an 11:1 compression ratio and 7k rpm redline.

the z06 makes 405hp from 5.7liters with a 6.6k redline and 10.5:1 compression ratio.

So what is the better piece of engineering? The expensive, larger, heavier 5.0L motor from BMW

You will understand a lot more about engineering when you learn what the goals are. The goal is not HP/Liter EVER.

Originally posted by AZScoobie
The BMW is making nearly 79hp per ltr while the Z06 is making 75. :rolleyes: What I see in the BMW is a wonderful engine that offers an incredible throttle response, Super smooth operation, and a power band that is as wide as your ego. Not to mention a wonderful display of technology in the cam system, lower displacement and higher redline. BMW uses technology and as a result they produce some of the finest engines in the world.

I am going to guess here... Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. We are different people with different backgrounds and as a result me might have different opinions.

I am a racer and have gown up around racing. HP per Ltr is ALWAYS the goal. ALWAYS. There is never a time when this is not the case in racing that I can even think of off the top of my head.

Racing is in my blood. My mom was drag racing her El Camino in 1962 at Carlsbad raceway alone. She tought me how to double clutch and rev match in her Porsche when I was 14 and did not even have a license. As a result, I have a strong racing background and what my ideal is and what impresses me are racing engines which, because of rules the main goal is HP per Ltr. Technolgy wins races. Displacement does not.

Its clear to see that you have learned most of your engineering knowledge about the automotive industry by reading Car magazines such as C&D and motortrend and by watching Car shows on cable TV. Both mediums have provided you with this information because they are driven and exist because of thier advertisers.

CT




Do you also live your life by a 1/4 mile at a time? ;)

j/k

Originally posted by LinuxGuy


Do you also live your life by a 1/4 mile at a time? ;)

j/k


I used to. I stopped racing after being diagnosed with Cancer. Its very uncomfortable for me to race. I will be back out there again in time.

CT

Wow, 79 vs 75!
What a HUGE difference BMW got but using the wider and taller and heavier OHC design! [END SARCASM]

as you say, HP/Liter isthe goal in racing when the rules limit the displacement. Street cars have no limits on displacement. Thats one thing that pisses me off about the WRX. We get the 2.0 liter motor just because of WRC rules, whent he 2.5 liter motor would be basically the same weight, and exactly the same size. waste of potential there! I'm glad to see the US STI fixing that.

do we have different backgrounds? I don't know.
different opinions, sure.

I don't care if you like the engine or not. But stating that it is an unimpressive engine is somewhat objectively wrong.

it is a brilliantly engineered engine that perfectly suits its purpose.

You have only repeated "its not OHC, its HP/Liter sucks". Which totally ignores the fact that the z06 offers 911 Turbo performance at half the price. What could be more amazing than that?!?!





Originally posted by AZScoobie
The BMW is making nearly 79hp per ltr while the Z06 is making 75. :rolleyes: What I see in the BMW is a wonderful engine that offers an incredible throttle response, Super smooth operation, and a power band that is as wide as your ego. Not to mention a wonderful display of technology in the cam system, lower displacement and higher redline. BMW uses technology and as a result they produce some of the finest engines in the world.

I am going to guess here... Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. We are different people with different backgrounds and as a result me might have different opinions.

I am a racer and have gown up around racing. HP per Ltr is ALWAYS the goal. ALWAYS. There is never a time when this is not the case in racing that I can even think of off the top of my head.

Racing is in my blood. My mom was drag racing her El Camino in 1962 at Carlsbad raceway alone. She tought me how to double clutch and rev match in her Porsche when I was 14 and did not even have a license. As a result, I have a strong racing background and what my ideal is and what impresses me are racing engines which, because of rules the main goal is HP per Ltr. Technolgy wins races. Displacement does not.