hybrid 16g or vf series 22, i want alot of power, i know the 22 is laggy but how much more noticeable is the power increase over the 16g hybrid?

how hard is it to customize pipes for a garret t66? i wann be able to break em loose in 4th:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: , seriously though, whats a good big turbo that will give me lots of power but not too much lag, is the vf22 the way to go? unless someone knows how to put on a t66:D

Well to start with the 16G flows more than the VF22. There has been several good threads about both of those turbos with alot of good info from users. There is also a thread that has a chart listing the flow capabilities of just about any turbo you can think of. Here is the thread with the flow numbers: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=278517&highlight=TD05

Enjoy :)

Originally posted by racewagon
i know the 22 is laggy but

Hearsay. 17psi@3400rpms in 4th isn't laggy to me.

thats not too bad, hows the power there? is there anything bigger or better that is a direct bolt on, i really dont care about lag now, i just want power, even up to 4 something rpm ill be fine if it doesnt spool as long as i fly once it kicks in

Originally posted by TypeC


Hearsay. 17psi@3400rpms in 4th isn't laggy to me.

Well yeah... that's 4th... how bout 1st, or 2nd?

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

so jorge, you thing that something like the 16g would be better? vf 30 or 16g size?

i read up on all that cfm ratings and stuff, very useful, i guess, but i still dont know when they spool and what kind of power ill be getting

Basically the 16g will give you VF22 performance with less lag (that's a really simplified explanation). Downside: good luck trying to find one, whereas the VF22 has a good tuning knowledgebase and is easy to get. Your decision if you want to put up with the hassle of tracking down a 16g for a few hundred RPM's of spool

I think the 16g hybrid you are talking about has the same exhaust housing as a vf22

so if it has the same housing, im gonna see similar power maybe better than the vf22 but with spool up around what a vf30 would do or even earlier?

is it true that the 16G must use custom up and down pipes?

I think it really depends on the kind of 16g you want to use. If you want to use the same 16g's that the DSM guys are using, then yes you will need custom up and down pipes, which Bushcur (?) racing sells as a kit. With it, you can run any mitsu turbo from small 16g up to the 20g's. If you want to run the TD05-16g's that came with certain older subaru's, then all you need to do is modify the inlet piping 90 degrees (or was it modify the 90 degree bend to straight?) and it should bolt-on. Turbo Specialties also makes a TD05-16g, although it uses the IHI housing, which is a direct bolt-on. They are selling them for $850 and there is a thread about them on the Vendor For Sale forum. Hope this helps.

Originally posted by kyoung05
modify the 90 degree inlet to straight?) and it should bolt-on.

That's the correct one

This is the TD05H-16G the comes stock on the '94-'97 WRX Sedans overseas.
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/c/scoobwrx/TD05-16G.jpg

I can get brand new TD05H-16G turbos from the GT555 Impreza for a pretty good price. The only difference between the two is the one from the GT555 is front entry, which makes it a complete bolt on turbo. The only thing that may need to be modified are the fittings for the oil and coolant lines.

Any data on how those perform on the USDM EJ205's? Also, how good of a price are we talkin here? Thanks.

yeah, I think it's important to remember just how many "16g" options are out there - kudos to kyoung05 for his post. As for how the reworked overseas OEM TD05-16g performs on a USDM ej20, well, we really don't have much (if any) information, just a lot of speculation. However, Britain gets the same shortblock we do, and over there none of the good tuners even bother with the IHI VF's - too dated and inefficient for good performance. They love the Mitsu turbos, and their OEM TD05-16g is a favorite for huge performance and great spool.

John Banks is the man to talk to about the OEM TD05-16g's, he's got tons of experience tuning them and loves them (keep in mind this is with the basically the same engines we have). Spool is akin to a VF35 (almost stock-fast), while power easily outdoes the VF22 by 10+whp. He'll tell you not to waste your time with VF's and get the performance, reliability, rebuildabiliy, and upgradability of the OEM TD05-16g.

As for cost, some guys have gotten them used for $300 or so and then had them cleaned up, rebalanced, and rebuilt (I believe the water line must be reworked or something like that) for another $2-400. Pretty great deal if you ask me, but good luck getting a hold of one: I've been trying on and off for about 6 months to find one, to no avail. 02_Scooby_WRX is going to be able to get new ones for about $800 in the near future appearantly - man, that would be nice:D

I just picked up a Subaru TD05-16G from Ireland. It is going out to be rebuilt this week I hope to have it in the car by the end of the summer. I had one heck of a time deciding between the 16G with P20 hybird or trying to source the true Subaru 16G. I came to the conclusion that the hybird would be to laggy because of the larger exhaust housing. I have spent hours looking over flow maps trying to decide on the small 16G or the big 16G. From what I can tell the small 16G is more efficent across the board until you start to go above PR 2.75 which is about 25psi at sea level. I do not plan on boosting that high so I going to stick with the small 16G. The small 16G is not even rated above PR 2.75. I woul try to source a Subaru TD05-16G-7cm^2 from what I can tell and from what I have heard this is one badass turbo fast spool and about 100cfm more at the same PR as the stock turbo and it will go to a higher PR than the stocker and still remain effcent.

Sorry for the book
Mark

100cfm's more than the stock turbo at stock boost levels? Or at its maximum efficient boost level? If I recall correctly, the stock turbo is only capable of 340cfm's or something like that. That would put this 16g at around 440cfm's, which I don't think is much different from the IHI line of turbos which are much easier to come across. How would this TD05H-16g be an upgrade from say the VF30? I don't think spool-up is much of an issue, well to me anyways, since you could always go with something smaller like say a VF turbo with the smaller P15 (versus P18/P20 I think) housing, which may also flow somewhere around that 440cfm range. I thought the P20 hybrid 16g was appealing because of the fact that it can flow more than the largest IHI turbo, yet spooled up faster, reaching full boost around 3400rpm (or so they claim). To be honest, I was looking at the 16g as a less expensive alternative to the PE line of turbos, or something comprable. I wanted something that had enough flow capability to provide the nice top end of say a PE1818F/PE1820 (~560CFM's ?), while not costing an arm and a leg. Anyways, let us know more about that turbo, thanks.

edit: Sorry, just reread the post saying that it was rated at 100cfm's more than the stock turbo at same PR. In that case, what is its effiecient PR/boost level, and what does it flow there? Thanks again.

Here is the map for the small 16G
http://www.stealth316.com/images/td05h-16gsmall-cfm.gif

And the large 16G
http://www.stealth316.com/images/td05h-16glarge-cfm.gif

Here is the map for the TD04-09B
http://www.stealth316.com/images/td04-09b-cfm.gif

Here is the map for the TD04-13G
http://www.stealth316.com/images/td04-13g-cfm.gif

I couldn't remember wich TD04 is the stack one so I put up two. The subaru TD05 should spool faster than the hybird because of the exhaust housing. The P20 housing has a larger A/R than the 7cm^2 housing. But the P20 housing will have less EGBP at the expense of lag. I don't know the A/R of eitherr one off the top of my head but I will try to find them.
Mark

Originally posted by 02_Scooby_WRX
This is the TD05H-16G the comes stock on the '94-'97 WRX Sedans overseas.
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/c/scoobwrx/TD05-16G.jpg

I can get brand new TD05H-16G turbos from the GT555 Impreza for a pretty good price. The only difference between the two is the one from the GT555 is front entry, which makes it a complete bolt on turbo. The only thing that may need to be modified are the fittings for the oil and coolant lines.

price please ..... ?????

:D

The VF22 has been shown to spool faster than the VF30 on several of our cars. The VF23 and VF22 both spool at exactly the same rpm for me. The VF23 has been shown to spool faster than the 30 by a little bit.


Originally posted by RiftsWRX


Well yeah... that's 4th... how bout 1st, or 2nd?

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

OK Jorge, you've been here long enough to know we ALL use 4th gear as an example of boost spool (the rpm where it reaches a target boost). That's just the trend. Of course the lower the gear, the lesser the load, the slower the spool. 4th gear is just the gear to use to compare between cars.

Originally posted by EJ20K


price please ..... ?????

:D

Right now it is going to be around $800 shipped. The price may change with the amount of intrest I get in people who REALLY do want these turbos, but it will only be lower not higher. Remember these are BRAND NEW, not used. They are also made to order so there will be a wait period on them.

If anyone is intrested contact me, but only if you are a serious buyer. If you are not serious about purchasing one then dont waste my time.

-Matt
scoobwrx@bellsouth.net

how long will you be able to get these turbos? I'm very interested, just don't have the funds currently, probably won't for a while

speed safely

Brian :devil:

Originally posted by Slvrblt
how long will you be able to get these turbos? I'm very interested, just don't have the funds currently, probably won't for a while

speed safely

Brian :devil:

I will be able to get these turbos forever. Contact me for more details.

-Matt
scoobwrx@bellsouth.net

can you explain the differences between this 16g and the hybrid being sold in the vendor classifieds for 800?

The difference is in the exhaust side housings. The TD05 from overseas has a housing that is designed to work with the TD05 compressor housing which results in good spool up times. The one sold by TurboSpecialist has the exhaust side housing of the VF22 turbo which is a bit larger than the exhaust side housing from the TD05 overseas.

And just so you know, I was told by Reed over at TurboSpecialist that the price on their TD05 is going to go up to over $900 since the cost of the CHRA's (Center Housing Rotating Assembly) has gone up. You will see this price difference in the next batch of TD05's that he puts out.

In my opinion I would rather have a turbo that was built with housings that work together rather than a hybrid turbo that has two different housings. I am in no way saying that the one from Reed isnt good or wont put out good results, I am just giving my opinion. I have placed an order for my brand new TD05H-16G from the GT555 Impreza today if that tells you anything.

-Matt

Matt, any idea how what the horespower potential of these turbos will be? Compared to say, a VF30? I know those are capable of ~275whp on pump gas with the standard STI intjector/Walboro Fuel pump upgrades and tuning. From your earlier posts it seems that this TD05H-16g will have similar if not better spool characteristics than the IHI line of turbos, but how about the power? Boost? I looked at the compressor maps you posted, but since I am fairly new to turbo charging, I couldn't figure out what the effiency range was on these guys. Will the 550cc injectors be enough? Or do you have to step up to the 650cc's to get the full potential out of them? As for tuning, how hard would it be for a tuner like Cobb to make a map for these? I ask because I am considering the AccessECU, but since I am in California, they will have to make a map based solely on compressor maps and whatever else info they have. Thanks.

I would say that the TD05H-16G would be capable of around 400hp or 300-350awhp. It is hard to say for sure since no one has pushed this turbo to it limits, and if they have no one has posted about it. I will have mine here very soon and I will be able to give some acutal hard core proof of spool up times, power levels, and so on. Until I do some testing it would be hard to give you an absolute answer because of the lack of information that there is on this turbo.

As far as the injector size, I would be guessing but I would say that you would need the 650cc injectors since even the VF series turbos can max out the STi injectors, so I would have to say that the TD05 would definitely take them out of their efficiency range.

As far as Cobb making a map for this turbo, that would be something you would need to contact them on and see what they would need in order to make such a map. If they need anything that I can help with let me know and I will provide you with any data that I can.

Let me know if you have any more questions. I will be more than happy to help any of you out.

-Matt

The TDO5H 16G pulls really hard. I have had mine installed for a month now. I am awaiting some fine tuning on a dyno (not too many awd dynos up north). Just received my Delta Dash and hope to get some road dyno plots soon. and some data logging done.

For spoolup, do you guys want info on 3rd gear pulls or 4th gear pulls.

Originally posted by wrexwagon
The TDO5H 16G pulls really hard. I have had mine installed for a month now. I am awaiting some fine tuning on a dyno (not too many awd dynos up north). Just received my Delta Dash and hope to get some road dyno plots soon. and some data logging done.

For spoolup, do you guys want info on 3rd gear pulls or 4th gear pulls.

Is yours a real suby 16g, a mitsu, or a hybrid?

I have a brand new Vll 16G with the 90deg inlet that was modified

Have you had any other turbos and if so, how does the 16g compare to those? Thanks.

i have a brand new perrin up and downpipe, id like to bolt right on to these, i dont want to modify them, what 16g will bolt up?

also, how does the strait suby 16g stack up to the mitsu or the hybrid, i like the idea of having the housing be what it was designed for use with but how does it compare power wise to the hybrid 16g, the 16g flows at 520? cfm @ 22 or something like that i think, i dont know how to read those maps that were posted

Originally posted by wrexwagon
For spoolup, do you guys want info on 3rd gear pulls or 4th gear pulls.

Both Please!:D

I've been eying the overseas OEM TD05-16g turbo for a long time now (remember the first 16g thread from last fall? Yeah, that long;) ), and I can't wait to hear how it works.

FWIW, the hybrid offered by TS and the overseas OEM TD05-16g will both bolt up in regards to uppipes and downpipes - both are the wacky Subaru 3-bolt design. For some good info (I recomment this to anyone interested in this turbo), do a search for "P18" and check out the thread started by me about a TS TD05-16g with a P18 vs. a P20 exhaust housing. There's some invaluble info in there, especially the first hand experience of john banks.

As for power and injectors, I like to think of injectors as having efficency limits in whp. 235-255whp is about the most you'll get out of the stockers, 300-320whp is about the most you'll get out of the STi's. If you want more power or lower IDC's, you need bigger injectors.

Power-wise, on 2L DSM's with similar mods the small 16g (same as these basically) tend to get 300-330 whp on AWD cars. I haven't seen any 350whp AWD DSM's running just this turbo without another power adder yet, but they could be out there, who knows. I think it's a safe bet after looking at these compressor maps and hearing from experienced tuners that it is safe to say these are 300whp turbos that have less lag than a VF30. Score;)

Originally posted by wrexwagon
I have a brand new Vll 16G with the 90deg inlet that was modified

Who did you send the turbo to and how much did it cost?

how much would it cost to have a mitsu 18g fitted to the scooby? i can get a real deal on one, how would this compare to the 16g? i know it flows similar to a pe 1820

this is the description the guy sent me, its an 18g, is this a good turbo? its for a dsm, how hard is it to fit it to the rex?

"This Turbo is constructed from a Mitsubhisi TD-05 turbo compressor and turbine housings. The compressor housing has been machined out to the limit to fit this monsterous .57 wheel in there. This turbo has less than 500 miles on it. It has been built with all aluminum internals except the bearings which are copper for extra strength and durrability. The turbine wheel and housing are also modified. The shaft is a stage two clipped at 11 degrees for improved flow at top end. The housing has been bored out 2mm to allow the wheel to fit. This turbo is cappable of supporting well over 400hp."

Well you'd have to have a custom up and downpipe made. That may be $$$ and may have to leave your car with a shop for weeks while they try to fab one up for you.

I personally have a '94 Impreza with a EJ20G motor (TD05-16G subaru turbo), and a Stage 4 WRX w/VF30. The TD05-16G is brutal power that comes on HARD at 3700 RPM. From what I've read, it flows 505 cfm at 1 bar of boost on a stock 2.0 liter DSM engine. I get full boost (16 psi) in every gear. Of course, keep in mind that this car is 2580 lbs in stock form. I'm sure the EJ20G motor weighs a bit more than the original EJ18, but I've also lightened the hood, and flywheel/clutch assembly. I'd estimate that the car is at most, 2700 lbs, probably more like 2650. When I did the conservative drag strip trip (2.08 sixty ft), I ran 13.5@103.5 on 14 psi, and that was when the car dyno'd at 236 whp. Since then the TMIC was upgraded to a big MRT one, and the boost increased to 16 psi, limited only by the stock injectors.

As for upgradablity, Andy at Rallispec has told me that for $400-600 I can send out the turbo to get the compressor upgraded to a big 16g or an 18g compressor. The EJ20G had an 8.5 to 1 CR, so full boost may come a little bit later on an EJ205 (USDM WRX)

The '02 WRX I just purchased with a TXS Stg 4 has a VF30. It comes on later than the TD05 jdm swap does, and doesn't have the same brutal hit. The VF30 is smoother when it comes on, which is probably good for the driveline, but is definitely not as much fun.:( The 16g just throws you and passengers back in a thrilling, brutal surge of POWER that gets addicting:D I'd love to get an 18g on the '02 WRX, as I suspect it will be very comparable to my jdm set-up.

how much customizing of the up and downpipe are we talking? i just bought a perrin up and down pipe both catless neither are installed yet. what would need to be done? can i use these with the 18g? can they be slightly modified?

Maybe try buying the turbo, take that and your up / downpipe to a shop that can do the work. And see if they can modify them to fit the turbo. Then you are open to a whole world of Mitsu turbos. If they can't do it or the price is outrageous you can always sell the turbo to someone else.

Not totally sure on this, but I think you'd need complete replacement pieces. Best bet: talk to Dave at Buschur Racing, they're making a kit to retrofit a 16g mitsu DSM turbo to a WRX. Maybe he can sell you the kit minus the $600 turbo if you've already got an 18g you want to use. This would be a nice way to go - no compatability probs or chasing down parts, just bolt it right up. Don't know if this has been discussed but you're gonna need PE injectors for full power BTW...details, details;)

From what I've read, the Subaru '93-96 TD05-16g will bolt right up to a newer WRX, except for the coolant passages and 90 degree elbow on the inlet side. Niether of these is a big deal considering the power/upgrade potential of the stock small 16g or the big 16g or the 18g, which all apparently fit the stock TD05 Subaru housing.

annointed - he was talking about an 18g mitsu turbo he can get a good deal on

stilesg57 - that idea sounds much much better than mine! :)

yeh i know im going to be needing some other stuff like injectors and whatnot but for now im concerned about the turbo itself, how much customizing do you think it needs, like how different can they really be, other than minor angles and such are they set up radically different?

scrap that, i didnt get the 18g, but i think i can get a vf22 for 550 shipped, is that a good deal, it has 700 miles and is portmatched for an uppipe, this may be something for starters till i do a complete custom system with a mitsu 18g some time in the future

another idea, there is now an 18g direct bolt on for around 800 new, how does this sound?

sounds awesome... I want dynos!

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=376529&goto=newpost
this is the thread, theres some info in there