Anyone using 4-pot STI calipers? Only $600 includes the pad, sound like deal? also do I need the STI brake line to used with the caliper?

http://products.nasioc.com/viewProduct.cfm?ProductID=96


Just got my WRX, don't know much about it.

Thanks in advance.
Al

$600 for the loaded 4-pots is about the going rate. You don't need STi lines, but I'd suggest you get good quality stainless lines. Goodridge ones are great for the price (the STi ones cost about 3-4 times as much).

Have fun!

-Milan

Edit: oh yeah, you're gunna have to run different wheels to fit those brakes (16X7 Subaru wheels from 98-01 the Impreza RS or 17s or larger)

Even with 17's you have to watch it for not all will clear then STI 4 pots. I found that out this weekend when I put mine on and put the Enkei RPM 2's back on. The wheel was hitting the caliper. So I had to go to a 3mm spacer to clear the caliper. While I did that I also put on StopTech brake lines on too.

I'm running 4-pots on my legacy and using Impreza 2.5RS (MY00) wheels. My Sti's were closer to $450USD new with pads. Where are you located? $600 does seem to be the going rate, but you can find better deals if you search.
I love these brakes, I'm sticking some porterfield R4S pads in soon and with the stainless lines and hopefully a MC brace it should be very nice.

Good luck.

tora,

I am located in Van. too. Where did you get your set? As I said before, I am a newbie in Subaru world. I got the price from SubaruWRXparts.com.

Thanks everyone for the reply.

Al

You can check out Total Autosports in North Van.
www.totalautosport.com

Jerry
www.twrracing.com

i was lucky to get my brakes from tora's source (jerry/total). i ended up cheaping out and using the stock brake lines from my wrx and although they work i am still regretting i didn't buy the matching ss lines they had on offer after i had already installed them :(

as for wheel clearance i have jdm 17"s so i was lucky there ;)

Originally posted by Sonic1
Even with 17's you have to watch it for not all will clear then STI 4 pots. I found that out this weekend when I put mine on and put the Enkei RPM 2's back on. The wheel was hitting the caliper. So I had to go to a 3mm spacer to clear the caliper. While I did that I also put on StopTech brake lines on too.

What was the orginal offset?

Tora, Ben and Jerry, I am a little confused. Are you guys saying that the 2 sites listed above sell Subaru STi 4pots for $450 new? All I could find on those sites were some excellent looking forged aluminum calipers. What gives???

ss

Yes, Total (if you contact them) has access to Sti 4-pots for 450-550 new depending on exchange rate....they are in Canada.

I'd like to buy a set of the Subaru 4 piston calipers right now if I could get them for $450 new!

What's the present exchange rate between Canadian and US dollars?

1usd=1.34cad

Then right now they would be closer to $550USD. When I bought they were $450USD.

Originally posted by US2JDM
$600 for the loaded 4-pots is about the going rate. You don't need STi lines, but I'd suggest you get good quality stainless lines. Goodridge ones are great for the price (the STi ones cost about 3-4 times as much).

Have fun!

-Milan

Edit: oh yeah, you're gunna have to run different wheels to fit those brakes (16X7 Subaru wheels from 98-01 the Impreza RS or 17s or larger) cant he just fit spacers to clear the stock 16's? im concerned about that too when i do this.

48 should be the offset that is on the Enkei's that I have.

i think the maximum width allowable with stock wheel studs is less than 5mm, which i read somewhere is not enough. sometimes fitting spacers can introduce a host of other problems, from insufficient thread depth in the lug nuts because the wheel studs are not long enough to compensate for the spacers, to hub centricity in which the wheel actually wobbles on the hub spacer.

Very true. Even if you get longer studs you can dun into problems because they start taking a lot more of the stresses put out by the wheel instead of the hubs. A 5mm spacer on a 53ET wheel shouldn't pose any problems. You've still got enough thread depth for your NUTS. You've also still got a good portion of the hub left for the wheel to rest on. Hub-centric spacers are also a bonus if you can get them.

Originally posted by DieselClown
cant he just fit spacers to clear the stock 16's? im concerned about that too when i do this.

Not a good idea. As other people mentioned, you can only get a few mm w/ the stock wheel studs, and that's not going to be enough. Even if you spaced them out 1/2", who knows if the spoke design would even be compatible?

There are a few sets of 98-01 RS wheels for sale if you poke around on the board a bit. Or just upgrade to compatible 17s (it's one of the best handling mods out there and looks nicer!).

Originally posted by tora
Then right now they would be closer to $550USD. When I bought they were $450USD. Guess I'll have to keep an eye on exchange rates for a while :D Shipping probablly is a bit more than buying in the US though.

The easy solution (and nets you the same overall results) is a good set of Pads (Hawk HPS, Carbotech, etc.) and a good set of braided lines...and a heck of a lot cheaper than the Subaru 4 pots (which though its a 4 piston caliper, the pad itself is really not much larger than the stock pad, and that is largely what determines the overall performance, though the feel is a bit better with the 4 pistons)

Adam

i don't know what other people think about this but i chose not to go with an agressive pad because of how they eat rotors (which aren't cheap either... but then neither is buying new wheels) and some dust badly and corrode wheel finishes... or is it just me? :confused:

Originally posted by Benjamin Tang
i don't know what other people think about this but i chose not to go with an agressive pad because of how they eat rotors (which aren't cheap either... but then neither is buying new wheels) and some dust badly and corrode wheel finishes... or is it just me? :confused:

Yes, aggressive pads are generally hard on rotors and dust like crazy. There's just no substitute for the greater physical clamping force that more piston area affords.

Ben I'm running Porterfield R4S right now and having no problems. I think a lot of it has to do with driving style as well.
Z1, you can't tell me that a good set of pads and lines with a single piston caliper and 10.3 inch rotors will offer equal braking performance to Sti 4-pots with 11.3inch rotors as well as lines and good pads. That's the change I made and the difference is huge. We have guys that have gone from 2-pots and notice significant change.

Originally posted by US2JDM


Yes, aggressive pads are generally hard on rotors and dust like crazy. There's just no substitute for the greater physical clamping force that more piston area affords.

More clamping force is good, when you don't have enough to lock up the brakes, but once you have that much (i.e., stock brakes), more clamping force just locks the breaks up sooner.

Originally posted by xjohnx


More clamping force is good, when you don't have enough to lock up the brakes, but once you have that much (i.e., stock brakes), more clamping force just locks the breaks up sooner.

Sure, that's all fine and dandy rolling down the street at 35mph on a cool day, but how about once you get those rotors nice and hot? Once you factor in brake fade and the need to be able to NOT lockup the brakes (i.e. taking a turn quick), the benefits show up awful quick.

Tora - on your car it will make a bigger difference, as you upgraded rotors and calipers at the same time. However, on the WRX in question, the change is really not as significant as many believe (and this is coming from someone who has used bopth systems extensively on the street and track). Granted, if a customer wants them, I am happy to sell them, but if asking for our advice, the gains are not worth the price of admission IMHO. I know people love maing all sorts of claims to justfify money spent, but the only worthwhile brake upgrades I ahve yet to experience are either the good pad, good fluid, braided lines route (check the magazine test from a few months ago..this combo worked out very well..I think maybe it was in R&T?). Or the BBK's, like Stoptech, AP, Brembo, Endless, and others (exclusive of the Wilwood, which I am just not a fan of at all for a 3000 lb street car)

As for pads, it is very important to choose correctly. I have never had dust from a pad corrode wheels...from the ones we use on the race car (325is ITS car), to the Hawks we prefer for the street cars. The Hawk HPS does give off a fair amount of dust, but the gains more than make up for the once a week wheel cleaning (which most of us do anyway!)

Originally posted by US2JDM


Yes, aggressive pads are generally hard on rotors and dust like crazy. There's just no substitute for the greater physical clamping force that more piston area affords.

The 4pots do not inherently have more clamping force than the WRX 2pots.

I just did the math on the piston area of the STi 4pots vs the WRX 2pots and assuming equal pad coefficients of friction, the WRX 2pots have 10.91% more clamping force than the 4pots.

This may account for the claims of improved overall braking with the 4pots, as this would shift the bias beneficially rearward and allow the rear brakes to help more with the braking process.

ss

Originally posted by subysouth


The 4pots do not inherently have more clamping force than the WRX 2pots.

I just did the math on the piston area of the STi 4pots vs the WRX 2pots and assuming equal pad coefficients of friction, the WRX 2pots have 10.91% more clamping force than the 4pots.

This may account for the claims of improved overall braking with the 4pots, as this would shift the bias beneficially rearward and allow the rear brakes to help more with the braking process.

ss

w0w! Ya learn something new every day! The pistons are really that much smaller in the 4-pots? I wonder if this would make a case for sticking w/ 2-pot WRX fronts and going w/ bigger rear brakes. :confused:

Originally posted by US2JDM


w0w! Ya learn something new every day! The pistons are really that much smaller in the 4-pots? I wonder if this would make a case for sticking w/ 2-pot WRX fronts and going w/ bigger rear brakes. :confused:

Yeppers, the difference is about 40mm in the 4pots vs 43.5mm in the 2pots. I just found this out last weekend by removing the dust boots on both calipers and measuring with a vernier caliper. Josh(Legacy777) found this same info out a while back somewhere and I missed his post. The reason I previously thought they were the same sized pistons is that the piston ends(that contacts the back of the pad) are the same size on both calipers.

It definitely changes the approach you need to take. Its a good idea to step back and do the math before you make changes.

ss

So at this point for the WRXs two good bias brake upgrade options would be:
1. 4pots and stock rears.
2. Stock 2pot fronts and "H6" rear

Originally posted by subysouth

So at this point for the WRXs two good bias brake upgrade options would be:
1. 4pots and stock rears.
2. Stock 2pot fronts and "H6" rear

Yes, these would be the two most feasible and beneficial setups it seems.

Originally posted by subysouth


The 4pots do not inherently have more clamping force than the WRX 2pots.

I just did the math on the piston area of the STi 4pots vs the WRX 2pots and assuming equal pad coefficients of friction, the WRX 2pots have 10.91% more clamping force than the 4pots.

This may account for the claims of improved overall braking with the 4pots, as this would shift the bias beneficially rearward and allow the rear brakes to help more with the braking process.

ss

I was just thinking about this again today...

Now as the 4-pots have the pistons opposed, wouldn't the clamping force actually be greater?

*ouch*...my brain hurts.

Originally posted by US2JDM


I was just thinking about this again today...

Now as the 4-pots have the pistons opposed, wouldn't the clamping force actually be greater?

*ouch*...my brain hurts.

No the fixed side of a sliding caliper "pushes back" with an equal amount of force that is being applied by the pistons. This is why you have to double the force being applied by one side of a sliding caliper when doing the math.

ss

A few things to consider:

I would suspect the 4 pots were stiffer, but maybe not. Pad where on the stock 2 pots isn't exactly consistent side to side or front to back. I've seen more than a few WRXs (in the US) with weird pad/rotor wear. Maybe problems with the sliders on the 2 pot cause this. Who knows.

What is the difference in pad size? Bigger means longer pad life (which really isn't a concern).

What is the weight relative to the 2 piston calipers?

The real kicker is that you stay with the factory rotor size. A bigger rotor would allow more heat disipation (thats all they are folks - kenetic to heat energy converters) so the biggest thing a "better" brakes system would provide isn't there.

Definatbly, will the STi 4 pots work with stock 16" 00 RS 2.5 wheels?

I forget what cme on an '00 RS..if its the 5 star wheel then yes, if its the 6 spoke, then no

Adam

It is the 6 thin star. Like in the tire rack logo at the top, but in 16". What are the 5 start? I assume you don't mean the WRX stockers?

Andrew

Originally posted by Z1 Performance
I forget what cme on an '00 RS..if its the 5 star wheel then yes, if its the 6 spoke, then no

Adam

Huh? I thought the 4-pots worked with all the old 16x7 RS wheels :confused:

The Subaru 4pot front calipers do work with the 6 spoke 16x7 RS wheels. Thats what I have on my WRX with no problems.

Steve

There seem to be a much better selection of performance pads for the 4pots. Another factor.

Anyone have the part numbers? I'm in Europe and have been seeing WRXs with the 4pots. I'd love to see what the local dealer price was (see how much mark up there is) and maybe bring a set home.

If not part numbers, exactly what version/years will work, any 02,03 WRX (non STi)?

Andrew

The 4pots work with any of the 98-01 16x7" USDM RS wheels, 5 and 6 spoke.

ss

Originally posted by afritz
A few things to consider:

I would suspect the 4 pots were stiffer, but maybe not. Pad where on the stock 2 pots isn't exactly consistent side to side or front to back. I've seen more than a few WRXs (in the US) with weird pad/rotor wear. Maybe problems with the sliders on the 2 pot cause this. Who knows.

What is the difference in pad size? Bigger means longer pad life (which really isn't a concern).

What is the weight relative to the 2 piston calipers?

The real kicker is that you stay with the factory rotor size. A bigger rotor would allow more heat disipation (thats all they are folks - kenetic to heat energy converters) so the biggest thing a "better" brakes system would provide isn't there.

Contrary to much you read here the stock WRX 2pot is a pretty hefty and stiff assembly. IMO tho, the 4pots, due largely to the longer arc length of the bridge, are stiffer.

Sliding calipers can and do experience more unequal pad wear. Inherently the 4pots have less "slop" or ability for the pads to twist relative to the disc face. Some 4pots are also engineered with varied piston sizes to equalize pad contact along the length of the pad.

Pad size difference(within reason) for complicated reasons is basically a non-topic.

The 4pots IIRC are about 2lbs lighter than the 2pots.

ss

Do you change pads in the STi's like other double sided - pull the pins, pry the pads, pull the pads out?

That is much faster. It makes it much more feasable to run street pads, and then swap to pure track pads when at the road course. Not that much more work (especially it it is for 1 or 2 hours of track time).

Changing pads on single sided calipers, while not hard, is more envolved that I ussually want to get at the track.


Andrew

Originally posted by subysouth

Pad size difference(within reason) for complicated reasons is basically a non-topic.


The main factor I consider (and that I know about) with pad size is pad life. Bigger pads last more laps. This is very much a non-issue on my WRX. Even the stock pads last several hours of track time with much vigourous daily driving (in traffic) in between.

Andrew

Has anyone used these calipers (which seem to have a few small advantagegs over the single stockers) with the AEM big rotor adapter kit?

The combination would give everything I wanted (hard mounted, top loading calipers and a bigger rotor among other things) for about ~$1100.

Andrew

Originally posted by afritz
Has anyone used these calipers (which seem to have a few small advantagegs over the single stockers) with the AEM big rotor adapter kit?

The combination would give everything I wanted (hard mounted, top loading calipers and a bigger rotor among other things) for about ~$1100.

Andrew

And skew your f to r bias out of the park.

ss

Originally posted by afritz
Do you change pads in the STi's like other double sided - pull the pins, pry the pads, pull the pads out?

That is much faster. It makes it much more feasable to run street pads, and then swap to pure track pads when at the road course. Not that much more work (especially it it is for 1 or 2 hours of track time).

Changing pads on single sided calipers, while not hard, is more envolved that I ussually want to get at the track.


Andrew

yep. You can swap the pads on the 4pots in about 15 minutes including wheel removal and re-install.

ss

Originally posted by subysouth


And skew your f to r bias out of the park.

ss

Doh... Didn't even think about that...