I am beginning to compile all the parts I will need to make the change over to turbo and do it as reliable as possible. On te list is a set of half dog gears, and electromotive Tec2 or 3. But I am not real sure as to which torbo kit will be the best bang for the buck. I want something that will run a steady 10 to 15 pounds of boost and can use a front mount IC, and the company must have decent tech support. I have somebody that can do the install no problem I just need to know who's kit should I go for. Thanks

Andrew

With a 10-15psi kit with front mount IC, you're looking at a custom job. You're pretty close to RalliSpec, and they're very good by reputation.

I am just lookng for the basic setup. Turbo, piping and what not I have somebody at a local dealer that will do the work for me for next to nothing. I like te kit that rallispec has but half of the stuff I already have like exhaust and what not and that would make the price of their kit cheaper but I do not like the control features of their kit... but I am not sure if they would sell individual parts like turbo and downpipe and whatever...

Rubasu

P.S. do you no anybody or have any pics of the engine bay with someone running a front mount I.C.

I know front mount innercoolers are very uncommon among already uncommon American turboed subarus. Also I thought a front mount innercooler added more lag to turbo spool? I think they are 100% cool looking.

TURBONETICS!!

if you want reliability why not go with less boost, meaby 7-10 psi and get heads and cams too. it will be a much safer and stronger motor. a front mount intercooler is all custom I have seen one on a car but the bumper had to be cut to fit it in. why not just go with less boost and a good top mount.

also consider a hardend grear set instead of the half dog... if you don't know how to drive them they will just break. a good hardend gear set. or and STi type trans would be good enough for up to 350hp.

B-Spec is the only company that does a up\downpipe designed for a front mount intercooler. Give Byron a call.

Subafast -- just finiished emailing B-spec about the front mount I.C. and price of an entire kit...

Shadows -- where can I get a hardened gearset. And as for the boost I am looking for around 10 but more is better. How about 10 - 15 with heads and cams. That would be a beast...http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif

pics:

<IMG SRC="http://www.b-specusa.com/visual_archive1/images/DSC01891.jpg" border=0>

<IMG SRC="http://www.b-specusa.com/visual_archive1/images/DSC01865.jpg" border=0>

<IMG SRC="http://www.b-specusa.com/visual_archive1/images/DSC01925.jpg" border=0>

<IMG SRC="http://www.b-specusa.com/visual_archive1/images/DSC01924.jpg" border=0>

<IMG SRC="http://www.b-specusa.com/visual_archive1/images/DSC01930.jpg" border=0>

contact mitch @ U.P.R.D. (http://www.uprd.com)

or...

byron @ b-spec (http://www.b-specusa.com)

-wop

check this out... (http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/Forum30/HTML/000992.html)

good luck with fuel at 10-15 psi http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif .

-wop

Wop -- You're a regular pirate!!! Anyone interested in the setup pictured can contact Byron, since those pictures come directly from our website. We accept one project at a time and plan the project to match your driving habits and how you view your ultimate car. We now carry all the necessary parts for turbo set-up, as well as gearsets. We do not recommend so-called "hardened" gearsets, as these are proven to break under power. Contact us @ our e-mail, BSpecUSA@aol.com, or simply visit our website and click on Contact Us.
Thanks, wop, for posting my i/c and engine bay ... but we realize most end-users will not choose to go quite that far!!! Call me to schedule a consultation, when you are ready to move forward on your project. B-Spec's one-off, custom projects usually cost the same, or less, than the typical group-buy or standard install!
Byron. www.B-SpecUSA.com (http://www.B-SpecUSA.com)

I started dealing with mitch at U.P.R.D. (http://www.uprd.com) , I he said that they could do a front intercooler as well as other top shelf goodies.


... but we realize most end-users will not choose to go quite that far!!!


yeah, your car is pretty much off the deep end http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/tongue.gif . what fuel and boost are you running?

-wop

I didn't mean to set on anyones toes... just like to try and help the fellow subie builders http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif .

I would contact Rallispec re: a custom turbo kit. their kit listed on the web page is not set in stone. in other words, if you have a different exhaust, or different clutch, they'll subtract those parts of the kit. the fit and finish on their turbo workk is exquisite. the quality of their work is always top notch.
I would agree that for that much boost (15 psi) a front mount IC is preferable. you should realize that a front mount IC is not an easy fit.
BTW, has anyone proven that a front mount IC induces lag? even if there is lag from the front IC, it has been proven that a quick spooling turbo (i.e. ball bearing) and a free flowing exhaust minimize lag.
good luck with your project. you have set very high goals (and most likely a very high budget), but if it all comes together your car will be a rocket.

BTW, has anyone proven that a front mount IC induces lag?


TR,
I think Sport Compact Car proved this on their first turbo 2.5RS project. It had a front mounted intercooler and a quick spooling ball bearing turbocharger but it had much more lag than the Minnam turbo of their 2nd turbo 2.5RS project. Some may argue that this is not proof but that's all I can think of for now. It convinced me that the top mount with way less piping and a ball bearing turbo is the way to go.

That car is SICK! I bet it is fast.

Wop, Our toes are only slightly stepped on (lol)! On the one hand, thank you for your compliments and the nice selection of photos of the B-Spec (Byron's) car. But on the other hand, we want to make it clear that UPRD had nothing to do with building up Byron's car. We know that UPRD does nice work, but the B-Spec car is not one of their projects. This car has been privately designed, built, tested, driven, and funded by the B-Spec Team, from Day-One.

We can certainly hook you up with the front-mount i/c and most other options you have in mind. We also carry top-mount i/c's, along with a nice selection of turbos. We offer both parts and installation, along with individual consultations during the planning stages. Visit our web site for some ideas of what we offer! Byron & Vickey. www.B-SpecUSA.com (http://www.B-SpecUSA.com)

Front mount I/C does induce lag, We've actually put theory into practice buy fitting a huge FMIC and leaving other hardware untouched on the STi 3 (VF24 turbo, Blitz DSBC 1.3 kg/cm², Samco inlet pipe, Apexi downpipe+HKS Hiper mid and muffler, standard ECU). Following the FMIC installation, the ECU was reset so it makes the necessary A/F correction.

Lag was immediately noticeable in 1st gear as it took longer in the RPM band to peak boost but when it peaks, the pull was harder than before. However, in subsequent gears, lag was reduced and the car pulled harder. Some people say lag is a state of mind, in some ways it's true, it's just something you get used to after a while.

I am not a big fan of front mounts simply because of the extra pipe work and sacrific you need to make in order to run them. It is also illegal to run one so that's out (i could paint the core black and fit a wire mesh in front of it but I'd still have to have it removed for the annual Land Transport inspection.

If you are subject to high ambient temps and want to run high boost, a water injection kit fitted to the intercooler Y-pipe would be a much better alternative (this has been covered in the Water Injection thread).Also, I would fit a secondary heatshield that sits between the turbo and intercooler so to minimise the heat soak phenomenon. Especially when you run an upgraded top mount core that's 2½ times the core thickness, these get a lot hotter than the standard unit and takes longer time to cool down so any form of shielding is a good thing.

wow I never expected this many posts http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif . I am going to try and work with Byron to put together a plan that will work for me. I am on a tight budget but can purchase the stuff a piece at a time if a have to (if Byron will allow that). I am not plannning on running around wih 15 pounds of boost at all times maybe at like 7 pounds or so and have the rest on reserve to be dialed in when needed with a manual boost controller or something. I just want to beable to run hard when the occasion calls for it. Thanks for all responss and please keep the info coming...

Rubasu

B-SpecUSA-

I see, my bad. good luck with your business I am sure we will be talking.

-wop

B-SPEC - you said "This car has been privately designed, built, tested, driven, and funded by the B-Spec Team, from Day-One."

So this is a new car vs the one that JC Sports started you with? Cool...

Larry

More along the lines of the JC Sports kit was swapped out long long ago in the quest for more power.

The body shell is the same, but I'd lay odds that the engine is completely redone from the ground up.

B-SpecUSA-

I was going to leave this alone but...


...we want to make it clear that UPRD had nothing to do with building up Byron's car...


what about J.C.'S Perfomance or JC School? one of the owners of U.P.R.D. didn't he infact build your car? so did U.P.R.D. play a part in building your car or not? or are you considering JC to be apart of the "b-spec team"? who exactly is on the "team"? what is the real deal? why is there so much controversy surrounding your car? I think it is all part of an elusion to draw attention to your car.

I am not trying to flame or anything, I just think that the true should be told.

-wop

wop -- please do not make this a B-spec bashing post. I am looking for useable info on turbo chargers and not who is part of the B-spec "Team". Please post only info concerning the topic and keep your personal crusades with B-spec in another post please. Thanks.

Rubasu

P.S. I would also like to inform you that I have e-mailed B-spec my personal apologizes. This post has taken a turn that I did want. The bashing and flaming going on in this post was not my intent. My apologizes to anyone that may have been offended by this topic...

[This message has been edited by Rubasu (edited June 04, 2001).]

Rubasu-

my post was slightly OT, but if a vendor is not being truthful, would you want to do business with them?

once again I am not bashing, flaming or anything of the sort. I just think people should be honest.

back to your post...

with the research that I have been gathering (from: shiv, ed & pam, JC from U.P.R.D. and others) a front mount at 10-15psi is not needed. if I was you... I would go to ralli-spec and get a "custom" version of their kit. thay are hight rated on this board and seem very professional. if you read my post / link, you would see that most feel that 10-15psi is a bad idea on pump gas, unless you prep the bottom end.

hope this helps,

-wop

I have nothing against bryon or vicki.

[This message has been edited by wop (edited June 04, 2001).]

to further elaborate on the WOP post...
I think you are going to need a combo of efforts from a few vendors.
for the turbo work I would highly recommend Rallispec. The front mount IC is most likely the way to go for the boost you are using. the usual T3/T4 hybrid turbo would most likely be running out of steam for the amount of boost you want, so something bigger might be in order.
you will need new engine mgmt and higher fuel capacity. TEC II is kinda the industry leader at this point. cant go wrong there.
Drivetrain: full dog box for you
engine internals would be necessary for that much boost. a combo of Cobb & B-SPec should fill the bill there.
what I am saying, is that there is no 'kit' for everything you need. several different vendors will cover all your bases. expertise in putting it together is also a must.

hope this helps

U.P.R.D. told me that they could build whatever (custom turbo "kits", custom gauge setups, custom full cages, pretty much whatever you wanted / needed). but... since you are across the country, I am not sure how that works. contact mitch , they are very nice and range from simple installs to top notch custom fabrication.

-wop

one more thing... at 10-15psi, what are your thoughts on what you are going to do about fuel?

[This message has been edited by wop (edited June 04, 2001).]

Larry, As you know, this is not a new car. Byron did get it from JC Sports almost 3 years ago. However, the only thing we can guarantee to be the same as then, would be the vin number! We stand by our quote, this car is privately funded by B-Spec, and is completely designed according to Byron's specifications. I'm confident that the JC Sports team would concur with this. (posted by Vickey -- B's out tuning!)

For fuel management I was thinking TecII or TecIII(if out by then). Shiv is running atleast 15 pounds on the stock bottom end and only a half dog box. I could prolly get away with only using a set of hardened gears to maintain the easy drivability with the synchros. I have had work done at Rallispec several times and they are top notch. If all else fails I have easy access to several IHI legacy turbos that I can get them to build around for me. Also my mechanic over a the dealership I go to used to work for SOA and is highly knowledable about installing and tuning Turbos and said he was more then willing to do the install for me at a fraction of the cost of Rallispec or some other place. I was also thinking of getting the Cobb turbo heads and cams but not real sure yet I just want to get the Turbo rolling first.

Keep the info. Coming
Rubasu

just a heads up... shiv told me that 10 psi was pushing it on pump gas; and he recommended that I run solid 9psi. I for one am very confused http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/confused.gif re: the dog box, some say it is very easy to drive others think it is a chore, some say use the clutch some say don't *shrug*.


I have had work done at Rallispec several times and they are top notch.


glad to hear it http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif .


If all else fails I have easy access to several IHI legacy turbos that I can get them to build around for me. Also my mechanic over a the dealership I go to used to work for SOA and is highly knowledable about installing and tuning Turbos and said he was more then willing to do the install for me at a fraction of the cost


lucky dog http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif .


I just want to get the Turbo rolling first.


yeah I know what you mean, I am leaning towards a custom kit, starting small and basic, getting the tuning dailed in, then stepping it up.

it souds like you are building a pretty kick ass subie, good luck with your project.

rally up!

-wop

wop -- check your messages.

Rubasu