After having tuned first hand a car with water injection, I was instantly sold on the performance it allowed! But, the problem was that I wouldn't spend $400+ dollars on a kit.

So after searching far and near, I found the kit that Jeff (Navybluesubaru here on our board) pieced together.

The kit consists of a Shurflow waterpump that has a built in pressure switch that will turn on at 80PSI and shut itself off when it reaches 105PSI. It flows ~80GPH IIRC.

Jeff's kit includes everything that you need to install the kit under your hood, but it is currently assuming that the pump will be mounted in the battery tray (this pump makes the aquamist pump look TINY.....) So, having absolutely no more real estate under more hood (full pics to follow in the offical write up on my site), I decided to locate a 2 gallon 8 oz. gas can I am using as a reservoir, and the pump in the back of my wagon.

I removed the jack and relocated it to the spare tire well, and proceeded to run 1/4" nylon reinforced kynar hose (good to 400PSI at -80F to 300F) under the carpet in the car with the power wire I'll use to power the pump.

After mounting the pump, and putting everything back together, all you see is a wire reinforced polythylene 1/4" tube coming out the rear liner (good for 60+ in/HG before collapsing).

I modified the gas can by pulling the yellow vent stopper off, leaving a pefect hole for the O.D. of the inlet hose. Then I used self adhesive standoffs on the bottom of the tank, and notched receiver holes into the lower compartment of the wagon. This lets the can's new "feet" lock into their new grooves so that the can doesn't go anywhere. The way it's mounted you completely have full access to all the storage compartments in the wagon, and can be removed all together in about 5 seconds by simply pulling the inlet hose out of the can, and lifting the can straight up out of it's grooves.

The solenoid included with the kit appears to be a very high quality and durable piece made of heavy duty plastics. Just to give you an idea of this things size, it uses 1/2" inlets. Jeff includes all 1/4" barbed adapters, clamps, and hose for the under hood installation. I have a 3M cement I use for acrylics/PVC/rubber which chemically welds the materials together. I used that on all the fittings, as well as the barbs, then followed it all up with the clamps included... the hoses will never leak, but they'll never come off either, so make sure you have everything laid out before doing something like this.

His kit also comes with a master arm switch mounted in a blank to go next to your fog light, as well as the pre labled wiring to connect the pump, solenoid, and UTEC to your new system.

I personally already have my car wired up for stuff like that and declined to use it, but while there are a few things that can be done to refine the electrical ancillary items, for the $250 the kit costs, you can take the $150 savings from an aquamist kit and go nutty at radio shack and still have $100 left over.

The cement will take a solid 24 more hours to properly cure, and I'll be finishing up the electrical soldering tonight, then test run it friday, or saturday. But I just wanted everyone to know about the componentry included with the kit, as well as Jeff's detail work in everything that comes out of the box.

EDIT: oh yeah, the nozzle... Not sure exactly what brand or what configuration it's going to spray, but it's a 5GPH nozzle that I mounted compression style right behind my IAT probe in my intercooler return hose for my hyperflow FMIC. Then proceeded to mount the solenoid right near my cruise control motor.


More later,
Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

nice, are you sure at 80-105 psi, with whichever nozzle you're going to use.....is going to atomize the water?

how's the system set up? is it going to come on at a certain rpm? boost? tp?

also, i'm assuming u'll be tapping the nozzle in at the throttle body, between intercooler and butterfly plate?

Originally posted by vile
nice, are you sure at 80-105 psi, with whichever nozzle you're going to use.....is going to atomize the water?

how's the system set up? is it going to come on at a certain rpm? boost? tp?

also, i'm assuming u'll be tapping the nozzle in at the throttle body, between intercooler and butterfly plate?

oh yeah, the nozzle... Not sure exactly what brand or what configuration it's going to spray, but it's a 5GPH nozzle that I mounted compression style right behind my IAT probe in my intercooler return hose for my hyperflow FMIC. Then proceeded to mount the solenoid right near my cruise control motor.


That should answer your placement question.

As for how it's fired, I'm going to use the UTEC's spare solenoid control functions to facillitate it.

For now, the conditions to fire will be: >50%TP, >14PSI, >3000RPM

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

Don't forget to add some sort of filter to keep out the junk 'n stuff.

Originally posted by hotsam
Don't forget to add some sort of filter to keep out the junk 'n stuff.

The nozzle comes with a micron filter attached to it, but I'll probobly end up plumbing in an inline .5 micron filter between the solenoid and the nozzle later on (just need to recoup some $$$)

Plus I'm only going to use winterized washer fluid, which is already distilled and purified.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

I am guessing that it is safe to run washer fluid with this then right?

Just gotta double check......

Originally posted by WRX-U
I am guessing that it is safe to run washer fluid with this then right?

Just gotta double check......

Yup...that's not a problem at all. Like Rifts said, it's pretty pure, and also the alcohol won't hurt the pump.

Can't wait to hear your impressioin after running the kit for a few days.

So when and where will this kit be available from?

I have a similar set up also using a surflow pump. I mounted the pump under the chassis of the car on an L bracket that I made. I uses a two galon gas tank holding by a bracket mounted inside the trunk. The gas tank lid has a quick disconnect mounted to it for easy removal, and With the surflow pump it is self primming and there is no need to gravity feed the pump. The pump is switched on by a aquamist pressure switch which turns on a relay which turn on a solenoid to alow water to pass in to the engine. Off course there is also on and off switch and manual overide too. Right now, I only have the water dripping into the base of the intake manifold through a tiny plastic nozzel that put out about 1/4 water as a .6mm aquamist nozzel. I am getting another pressure switch for another nozzel with a sleeve mounted on to the intercooler.
I am a believer in water injection because my car's (stock) performance is low and inconsistence without the water injection.:)

Originally posted by Bolster
So when and where will this kit be available from?


PM NavyBlueSubaru

Is this kit for the "highly modified" cars, or is this an option for a car with basic bolts on goodies and engine managment?

Is this setup only for UTEC users?

Rich

Originally posted by SJwrx
Is this kit for the "highly modified" cars, or is this an option for a car with basic bolts on goodies and engine managment?

Is this setup only for UTEC users?

Rich

It wouldn't be too hard to source a pressure switch that could be used to make this a completely autonemous system. But it currently does work on a UTEC..

IMO, seeing how cars have reacted to it.. I think it be really interesting to see how this works on a bone stock car.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

Theorectically - if you do not lean out the fuel - WI should allow the octane challenged to run similar maps to those on 93.

I may test this sometime! You would make a fotune in CA if you could prove this!!

Finished it all up last night and started playing around with this setup. First thing I can think of... I need a larger nozzle... But even with what I'm using I've gone to a static utec timing curve just to experiment. I'm able to run a solid 3 more points timing then I was able to before, at about half an AFR leaner then before. I'm pushing around 11.5:1 at redline right now, at 22 degrees advance at 22 PSI... I used to get knock shifting, (valve body will do that), forcing me to run richer up top, and with less timing to curb the hit, but now I can just run it full tilt to redline.

In light of the aspiration of my motor, I need to get whatever the next larger size is from Jeff and try that out!

But so far.... very promising!

At this point... I NEED to go back to static timing on the UTEC, because the engine noise is so great that the new ECUTEK flash can't filter it out and sort of has itself locked at 19 degrees advance... I'd need to DANGEROUSLY lower the knock thresholds on the UTEC to get it to go up... I'd rather just run a static curve and call it a day... The ecutek flash is currently completely handling fueling.. but until I can get a larger nozzle in there I'm going to let it continue to do it's thing for a while.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

I've herd that some people with minor bolt ons are running water injection and 87octane! With no knock.

Did you think about running a low pressure pump to get the water from the tank in the rear up to the main pump in the front? It just seems like a better idea to run high flow low psi pump to get the water from the main storage tank in the back of the wagon up to the front and then run a short stretch of high pressure line. I just have a feeling that the pressure will fluxuate a lot due to flex in the wall of that much high pressure line.

Any thoughts anyone?

Could be, but the line I used is about as tough as your going to get short of braided. I'm sure there's a pressure drop across 13 ft of line, but if the nozzle is even at 75 or 80PSI from the 100 it is back at the pump, that's still plenty good!

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

I don't know if anyone has seen the kit that www.WRXTuner.com
has, but its only $350, check it out. Here's the link:

http://www.wrxtuner.com/default.asp?subCategory=11&vendor_id=47&subCategoryName=Engine&categoryName=Performance&vendorName=J&N_Performance

Originally posted by buchananracing
I don't know if anyone has seen the kit that www.WRXTuner.com
has, but its only $350, check it out. Here's the link:

http://www.wrxtuner.com/default.asp?subCategory=11&vendor_id=47&subCategoryName=Engine&categoryName=Performance&vendorName=J&N_Performance

I'm pretty sure it's the same kit. NavyBlue and WRXtuner got together to make some money.

Originally posted by MAD REX


I'm pretty sure it's the same kit. NavyBlue and WRXtuner got together to make some money.

and they are pimping WI to anyone with an ear, its pathetic

There's no need to "pimp" water injection. It has its place without a doubt. I dont see the need for unneccesary put downs here. People push theyre products, Its how business works. I dont see you crying when Shiv or TurboXS post regarding theyre latest product. So relax. Unless you have clear evidence that Water Injection is a bad thing, please stop talking down on it for no reason.

Im not trying to start anything,or be disrespectful but I dont see how your posts are relevant or belong on the board.

Ajay

[Did you think about running a low pressure pump to get the water from the tank in the rear up to the main pump in the front? It just seems like a better idea to run high flow low psi pump to get the water from the main storage tank in the back of the wagon up to the front and then run a short stretch of high pressure line. I just have a feeling that the pressure will fluxuate a lot due to flex in the wall of that much high pressure line.

Any thoughts anyone?]


There is no need for an extra pump. The shurflow delivers a ridiculous amount of water and pressure. On my car, I ran a tiny nozzel out of a alergy mist spray bottle with all the pump all the way from the back of the car an it works. Also all this hype about you have to have enough pressure to 'mist' the water is overrated. If there is room the water will mist, but in a very tight space like inside the intercooler, the water will be come droplets once it hits something. I would think that even as surflow pump is overkill. All that is needed is a pump to have pressure greater then the amount of turbo boost, and let the water drops into the manifold.

Is anyone allowed to specify the specific SHURflo pump used, so that we can look at it on http://www.shurflo.com/?

Shurflo 100 psi pump model #8000.543.236
or 8000-543-13

might not be the exact one, but was talked about here (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=261900&highlight=SHURflo+pump) .

Another DIY WI system can be read about here (http://cybrina.mine.nu/Description.htm) . May be the same or similar to the one now, or even the samy guys, I dunno the IRL names.

$350 sounds pretty expensive considering the pumps are around $100?

Well.. IMO, $250-$275 is fair, considering that if you want to modify the installation at all you have about $50-70 in items your buying yourself....

But, I'll talk about that more in Part 2, coming now.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

Nick and I will be having a group buy here really soon for all impreza.net members for $275. This kit will work with or without a utec, if without then you'll need a pressure switch which we can provide at a reasonable price. If anybody has any questions feel free to pm me.

Jeff

Originally posted by NavyBlueSubaru
Nick and I will be having a group buy here really soon for all impreza.net members for $275. This kit will work with or without a utec, if without then you'll need a pressure switch which we can provide at a reasonable price. If anybody has any questions feel free to pm me.

Jeff

Anytime before Sept 13th for the Subaru shoototu? :)

Originally posted by Need4Boost


Anytime before Sept 13th for the Subaru shoototu? :)

I hope so...i'll contact him immediately and ask him to post it in the vendor group buy section. Look for it there sometime today! I'll post the link here when i get it.


Jeff

Just a quick question for you Jorge.

I've been running an aquamist kit for a month now and have been playing w/ different nozzles with good results.

However, I installed the nozzle in the intake manifold STI RA style. I'm now thinking that this location is not optimal as the vapor has minimal time to cool the intake charge before combustion.

Any thoughts? Why would Subaru use the manifold location? Also, I'm interested in how you did your compression mount of the nozzle, I have a hyperflow FMIC as well.

Thanks,

Dan

Group buy can be found here: Group Buy (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=415291)

Jeff

sorry, fixed the link!

Originally posted by NavyBlueSubaru
Group buy can be found here: Group Buy (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=4521225#post4521225)

Jeff

That's technically not a group buy thread ;)

Again... personally <$300 is fair... I've priced out all the components since installing them, and know that with enough legwork and haggling you can have just about everything you need for around $200, not sparing any expense. So hopefully you guys will try more on being fair, and less on making the quickest buck possible.

Just my very respected opinion ;)

Peace,
Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

Jeff, you can clear the MO at your local post office.

Originally posted by DanMan
Just a quick question for you Jorge.

I've been running an aquamist kit for a month now and have been playing w/ different nozzles with good results.

However, I installed the nozzle in the intake manifold STI RA style. I'm now thinking that this location is not optimal as the vapor has minimal time to cool the intake charge before combustion.

Any thoughts? Why would Subaru use the manifold location? Also, I'm interested in how you did your compression mount of the nozzle, I have a hyperflow FMIC as well.

Thanks,

Dan

No clue on why Subaru did it the way they did. Is there a more optimal location? I'm sure... but this was more for convenience then anything else.

As for the compression... using Jeff's setup, teflon tape the nozzle, then using an appropriate stainless washer on the nozzle, feed it through a properly drilled hole in the silicone. Then.. screwing the nozzle into the fitting, hold the FITTING IN PLACE, and then tighten the nozzle with a 7/16" wrench from the nozzle side.

NEVER tighten something like this setup from a non washered side or you'll shread the material your compressing against.

Once it's nice and tight, you should have no problems!

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

Well, lets talk about optimal locations!! I spent a lot of time carefully tapping my manifold (which of course requires removal) and have been rather turned off by the results. I have learned recently that other street-cars using that location have also seen only moderate results.

So with our FMIC, where should it go? I like your spot Jorge as it should cause less puddling than installin it at the end-tank. But what about moving even closer to the throttle body so the vapor never needs to tavel up a pipe (litteraly up, like in height) and to avoid corners.

Also, it occurs to me that using Jorge's location, a great deal of heat that radiates into the cool side charge pipe from the turbo could be removed.

Dan

Originally posted by DanMan
Well, lets talk about optimal locations!! I spent a lot of time carefully tapping my manifold (which of course requires removal) and have been rather turned off by the results. I have learned recently that other street-cars using that location have also seen only moderate results.

So with our FMIC, where should it go? I like your spot Jorge as it should cause less puddling than installin it at the end-tank. But what about moving even closer to the throttle body so the vapor never needs to tavel up a pipe (litteraly up, like in height) and to avoid corners.

Also, it occurs to me that using Jorge's location, a great deal of heat that radiates into the cool side charge pipe from the turbo could be removed.

Dan

Actually... this topic has been a source of debate all day long in IRC (irc.teardrop.org 6667 #mwsoc) and we've been going over the erosion properties of alco/water mixes, and the erosion properties of WI alone. One guy (CJM04WRX) was telling us about a DSM'er with an aquamist kit that basically wore through his throttle body elbow in about 6 months time. So there is more to this that can be hashed out.

Some people have the ideology that you only use WI as a safeguard.. right now I'm CLEARLY using it as an ability to produce more power (by emulating higher octane fuel). Where does the thought process lie?

I think I'm somewhere in between... I clearly take advantage of the power making properties, yet don't come near the edge of what I could do with the fuel/wi combo I have.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

Experience from the DSM world puts nozzle location or locations (yes you can run 2). About 3 inches before the Throttle body and one right after the turbo. That provides the best cooling. Too far up the intake tract from the Throttle body provides more time for the air to warm back up. The idea of having one after the turbo and right before the Throttle body provides the most consistent cooling to bring charge temps as close to ambient as possible.

Jorge,

Your statement on using WI for reliability vs. power is very interesting. Installing it in the manifold has had great reliability results for me, while allowing only minor power adding. I have found that using a larger nozzle actually causes a negative effect causing the car to feel laggy and inconsistent. However, by using a small nozzle, I have been able to lower EGTs, lean out the car significantly, and in general elinated all knock and high-outside-heat issues. Maybe Subaru decided that these were to be the effects of WI, not significant power addition.

It would seem to truly take advantage of water injection for power making purposes, the vapor would need adequate time for cooling the intake charge (ie Jorge's position) while also stabilizing the combustion process (leaner fuel mixture, det resistance). So perhaps two nozzles, one in the manifold and one in Jorge's spot would provide the best cooling.

Reading the previous posts, I'm thinking about ordering the smallest nozzle and placing it in the manifold. I am also going to use one of my larger nozzles further down the IC piping and check the results.

Brainstorming is sweet :D

Dan

BTW, my goal is to add power. 91 octane is the bane of my existence :(

Jorge, do you have any pics of how you mounted your tank and pump?

Originally posted by DanMan


BTW, my goal is to add power. 91 octane is the bane of my existence :(

Funny you should say that. I'm actually developing an 87 octane map right now, low boost, moderately timed... ironically... even at 14PSI the SR40 moves about 30% more air then a VF34 at full tilt, screaming for it's life.

I'm running a nice comfortable 11.3:1 and running about 26 degrees of advance still. The car just feels soooo slow by comparison ;), yet I'm sure I'm still making a solid 250WHP hehe.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

Originally posted by Bolster
Jorge, do you have any pics of how you mounted your tank and pump?

Yes, just need to finish the write up and collect and organize all the data I've collected over the last week.

All in due time my good man... all in good time. Been REAL busy tuning cars for the shootout, helping with installing other WI kits, and working on my own car.. hehehe.. Was helping with exhaust bits at 10:30 last night :p

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

So how did the shootout go? i havnt seen any results yet...maybe in the other thread?

Jeff