OK... After spending the last few days working on the UTEC map, I'm simply floored at what this thing is doing!

Couple of items to note:

A: I've basically shut off all knock correction. The ecutek would only get up to about 18 degrees advance at redline even with the UTEC knock corrections at 1!! Of course... this isn't something your average person deals with.. that's just the price I pay with the internals in the vehicle.

B: That being said, I'm running a static timing map above 4000 RPM from 17 PSI on.

----

Now, that being said, I'm running 22-23 PSI and 25-27 degrees advance on 93 octane gas! ;) That's with fueling at 11.3-4:1.

Anyone who's been up at those tuned boost levels know exactly what I'm talking about here....

Those are timing and boost levels I'd typically run on 104 octane fuel.. on 93 octane ;)

I'm using the 5GPH nozzle, which is a little smaller then aquamists largest nozzle.

EGT's are around 1500F at 6800 RPM in 3rd (115MPH). I'm using about 80% concentration of water and -20F methyl alcohol washer fluid. Reason it's not 100% washer is from left over water from testing the system.

I can't wait to see what this thing is like with 100 octane and water injection!

But for now, I'm satisfied! It's raining now, so I'll finish the photo shoot for my write up later on tonight, or tommorow.

For $250 I clearly concur on the investment. But if everyone's jumping on the supply demand bandwagon and jacking up the price by $100, like on WRXTUNER, then it's clearly not worth it.. in light of the fact that it took about $50-70 in added parts to install the system to >MY< level of refinement and OEM finish.

More later...

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

Dyno Test: j2
=============

Maximum Wheel Power: 335.0 BHP @ 5903 RPM
Maximum Wheel Torque: 317.2 LbFt @ 5088 RPM
Power to weight ratio: 197.0 BHP per ton

Terminal velocity due to power: 190.1 mph

In Gear Acceleration:
40 - 60mph = 2.7 seconds
50 - 70mph = 2.3 seconds
60 - 80mph = 2.2 seconds

http://www.projectwrx.com/pictures/mods/083003/widyno93oct.jpg

By comparison... this is the original 93 oct tune..

287 lb/ft @ 4300 RPM | 275 WHP @ 5800 RPM | 93OCT
http://www.projectwrx.com/pictures/stroker-31.gif

All by adding a little bit of water and alcohol to the mix ;)

The first one was done with Ecutek's road dyno function, the second was done using my actual "Road Dyno". The ecutek typically has read lower then my "Road Dyno" tool. For comparison sake... my 275 on a slightly warmer day was around 260 using the ecutek function. So for me to be showing almost 340WHP via Ecutek, I consider that "conservative".

I also did a second run with the ecutek and it showed 341... but for the sake of being "conservative", I'm only showing the lower of the two.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

dang, one of these days I need to take out my aquamist kit that has been in the garage for 2 months now collecting dust :/ Laziness is amazing sometimes.

At the price of $350 I don't personally seeing it survive since aquamist kits that come 100% complete with pressure switch, etc can be had for about $400. I always like to see implementing new versions though, so hats off to navy guy.

Damn, that is pretty carzy. I had no idea it made that kind of gains.

Originally posted by 128d
Damn, that is pretty carzy. I had no idea it made that kind of gains.

WI alone Doesnt make the gains.. It is the ability to tune more aggressivly with the WI that makes the gains.

FYI... the 93 map (the 275) was tuned... ;)

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

Originally posted by RiftsWRX
For $250 I clearly concur on the investment. But if everyone's jumping on the supply demand bandwagon and jacking up the price by $100, like on WRXTUNER, then it's clearly not worth it.. in light of the fact that it took about $50-70 in added parts to install the system to >MY< level of refinement and OEM finish.


Nick and I will be offering a group buy for impreza.net members here really soon for $275. The increase in price is reflected by the increase in quality of various parts, packaging and such. We have sourced the pressure switch and will be offering it at a much lower cost than i've ever managed to find it for sale at retail prices. If anybody has any questions, please feel free to chime in!

Jeff

Originally posted by NavyBlueSubaru


Nick and I will be offering a group buy for impreza.net members here really soon for $275.

(clip)

If anybody has any questions, please feel free to chime in!

Jeff

So $275 GB will be a full kit not needing anything?

Scott

pretty much...now if you plan on mounting the pump in the trunk or something wild like that then you will need to buy more hose....but the kit comes with everything you will need to mount it near the battery. The system is very flexible so you can really do with it what you want, as long as you are willing to buy extra hose if you go wild with it.

Jeff

That sounds like a sweet deal! Good job guys! :banana:

-Fess

So this is intended to reside where the battery currently resides right? That means I have to relocate either the pump or the battery. I think I may have to put the pump in the rear of the car, since I'm gonna mount a reservoir there too. This kit does not have a reservoir with it correct?

Interested to hear more as it develops.

can you provide a list of all the parts included in the setup?

btw, for a kit like this, is the WI mappable to the fuel injectors or something? or is it just regulated by manifold pressure? (like the 1s aquamist system)

Originally posted by NavyBlueSubaru
pretty much...now if you plan on mounting the pump in the trunk or something wild like that then you will need to buy more hose....but the kit comes with everything you will need to mount it near the battery. The system is very flexible so you can really do with it what you want, as long as you are willing to buy extra hose if you go wild with it.

Jeff

Jeff, I sent the money order to you over a week and a half ago, and have not heard anything from you. I have given you the info on my setup already. What are my prospects on receiving the kit soon?

Femi Akinyele

Originally posted by jigga


Jeff, I sent the money order to you over a week and a half ago, and have not heard anything from you. I have given you the info on my setup already. What are my prospects on receiving the kit soon?

Femi Akinyele

I tried to pm you last week regarding your kit, but your pm box was full or something. I'll send you another pm.

Jeff

Originally posted by Bolster
So this is intended to reside where the battery currently resides right? That means I have to relocate either the pump or the battery. I think I may have to put the pump in the rear of the car, since I'm gonna mount a reservoir there too. This kit does not have a reservoir with it correct?

You mount the pump infront of the battery. The kit does not come with a resavoir as of yet. I have the kit utilize the stock washer fluid tank. Thats how i have mine setup and it works just fine. If you plan on putting the system in the trunk you will need extra hose that we can provide if you mention that you need it, we will just charge you a few dollars more, no biggie. Also, we can provide pressure switches for those who need one. I will try to get nick to post the group buy today in the vendor group buy section, then i'll post the link to it here!

Jeff

Originally posted by Penguinking
can you provide a list of all the parts included in the setup?

btw, for a kit like this, is the WI mappable to the fuel injectors or something? or is it just regulated by manifold pressure? (like the 1s aquamist system)

Our kit includes everything you see in the picture at www.wrxtuner.com

Our latest upgrade to the kit includes the utilization of a Copper-Nickel nozzle, which provides superior resistance to corrosion, similar to that of stainless steel. These are standard now in every kit.

Jeff

Not one to leave good enough alone... I started working on my 100 octane map yesterday... OMG...

Let's just say this.... 12.3:1 at redline, 32 degrees advance at redline at 21-22 PSI at redline.

If the steering wheel is not perfectly straight it'll start torquing the car around. Also even at partial throttle the car starts breaking the tires loose (just a little water on the roads yesterday).

Finally, I could FEEL the heat through the firewall and floorboards from the engine radiator. Here's where the PWR is paying for itself. I ACTUALLY heated up the NPG+ so much after about 4 back to back 3rd gear pulls that I expanded it to the point that it reached the top of the overflow ;) hehe.

Finally, I've actually hit the high stall point on the converter with the amount of input torque.

When the car shifts into third it basically drops RPM to around 4800 and starts to climb from there... Here it shifts to 4800 then it shoots up to around 5300 in 3rd and the MPH climb about 15-20 MPH before the driveline starts to match the torque converter RPM. CVT comes to mind hehe... That or I'm superbly slipping the clutches (my first paranoid thought), but judging that the tranny temps are all of 140's and I don't smell any burnt clutch material at all (just burning coolant from the overflow) and the car drives fine other wise... I'll discount it. But I've now become aware of the levels of torque coming out of the car, and realize that this map is defineately something of a special occasion until I can "properly" have the trans built up by Level 10 (hopefully over the winter, but we'll see).

Judging by the "substantial" increases in performance, and using the 335 from before as a basis, I'd estimate WHP conservatively in the 360's right now (by ECUTEK standards). But I could very well be WAAAAAAAY off since my butt dyno is still tingling and hasn't formed an unbiased opinion yet ;) hehe.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

Hey jorge, that sounds awesome! On some occasions i'll get that feeling of torque steer, but not all the time. Mainly just from a roll in 2nd or 1st. The front will pull so hard that it pulls to one side or the other...its hard though to do that seeing as its awd and has equal-length half-axles. Anyhow i too have broken loose in 2nd from a roll when the roads are wet, its scary and awesome at the same time!

Jeff

Over the weekend me and jorge installed my WI kit. All I have to say is WOW! We went for a test ride after it was all done and tryed my 100 octane map just for kicks. Perfect! No knock and the car pulls like a train. Although we did have a slight leak, the kit install went well. I had to buy some parts for mcmaster carr but that was because we mounted the pump and tank in the trunk. Ill post some pics and the part #s soon. And like jorge said I cant wait for the 100 and WI map!!!!
-nick

I have a question how long will the washer fluid container last, what I'm asking is how much water does it generally consume? Like will I only get a couple runs at the track and have to refill it?

NavyBlueSubaru- That group buy is what I was looking for. When is it going to start up? Please let me know as soon as it does. I will be the first on the list.

~Danny

I use the washer tank and and only use about 3/4 of it per tank of gas if I drive really hard with an Aquamist system 2d

I have contacted Nick at wrxtuner.com and the groupbuy should be posted sometime today...im going to be checking for it periodically throughout the day.


BoostGeek - The resavoir lasted me typically 2 tanks of fuel per one tank of fluid. It depends on when you have it come on and how big your nozzle is. Turning on at 7psi with a 5gph nozzle those were my results. I have it come on at 10psi now so it should last even longer.

Heres a note for all those doing the install:

Mount the Solenoid AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE to the nozzle. I have recently hooked up an additional 1gph nozzle and redid my hosing. Previously, the solenoid was right next to the nozzle, near the bov. Now its back near the firewall, going to a "t" which then goes to the nozzle on the ic and the other nozzle in the y hose. Since i have done this, my water consumption has nearly quadrupled. Im suspecting that water is being drained from the hoses while the system is off. I have checked for leaks several times and found none. So the moral of the story is MOUNT THE SOLENOID RIGHT NEXT TO THE NOZZLE!!! Its ok to have about a foot of hose if you must, but i have like 3 or 4, because i need enough hose going to the y pipe that i can remove the ic with the hose still attached, otherwise i could never install/uninstall the system.

Jeff

Here's the link to the Group Buy:banana: Click Me! (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=415291)

price is $275

Jeff

Fixed the Link!

Jeff, I just replied your PM. You can clear the MO at your local post office.

Originally posted by BoostGeek
I have a question how long will the washer fluid container last, what I'm asking is how much water does it generally consume? Like will I only get a couple runs at the track and have to refill it?

FYI... I've basically eaten up 2 almost 3 tanks of gas tuning and testing over the labor day weekend... and I've gone through a little over a gallon of fluid...

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

Stupid question (hoping for a technical answer):

If water injection is good, why is water in the gas tank bad?

Originally posted by NavyBlueSubaru
Here's the link to the Group Buy

price is $275

Jeff

Is this the same kit you were saying was DIY for $140 in the UTEC thread?

Sorry the link to the groupbuy was bad, but i think i've got it fixed now.

Yes its basically the same kit, except the price i quoted was a rough estimate, it actually costs more. We are shipping better nozzles, more hose, and are also paying for shipping boxes. There is also "labor" involved, such as making the harnesses, and various other things that need to be done to get it all together. I spent like 10 hours last weekend just putting together 4 kits. I didnt get any sleep at all...i just stayed up through the night so that the kits could get out asap.

Jeff

Originally posted by T-WRX
Stupid question (hoping for a technical answer):
If water injection is good, why is water in the gas tank bad?

Water and gas are immiscible in liquid form. Water is going to sink and gas will float. Fuel pickup is at the bottom of the tank where the water sits and water won’t burn like fuel. When you spray WI, there is a mist of fuel from the fuel injectors and a much smaller volume of mist from the WI. In proper proportions, you can increase timing and boost for higher gains that you would be able to get on just gas alone. Higher octane content means in short it is harder to get the gas to ignite. You cannot get a good enough mix of water and gas by mixing the right proportions of water and gas together in the same tank, and I don’t think that the spray pattern/sizes of fuel injectors are the same for good water nozzles either.

Okay, you've given me something to think about. A few more questions . . .

1) Are the benefits of WI basically the same as Nitrous? E.g., cooling of the charge, and additional oxygen in the charge?

2) What are the cons of WI? The next stupid question is, "Why aren't manufacturers doing this?"

No it is not like nitrous as water itself adds no oxygen to the charge. Think of it more like operating like 110 octane fuel on pump gas. To the extent less water is needed for cooling than the amount you lean the AFR by - there is more room for air and accompanying oxygen in the charge.

The cons are if you have any WI failure you are likely running lean enough to break a ring land or melt your piston under boost if you do not have an automated response to the failure.

Manufacturers have done it - my best guess is they would rather dump fuel than add to the complexity of the car and the general population is satisfied with their current performance and emissions. Plus again the manufacturer would need a way of sensing faults and having an automated response to them - like limp home.

Originally posted by jehcpa
The cons are if you have any WI failure you are likely running lean enough to break a ring land or melt your piston under boost if you do not have an automated response to the failure.


Now that you mention it, does any aftermarket ECUs have an automated response to the failure of a water injection valve, water pump, water pressure, etc? In other words, can a Link, Motec, UTEC, etc be setup to do this?

Based on a question I sent to UTEC no it does not.

Xede absolutely does - it will switch all maps (TPS, Boost, MAP, MAF and timing) on the fly based on a ground based switch. This is what I use.

I would have to look closer at the stand alone tools - but if I recall correctly most have inputs that result in adding fuel and retarding timing. You could trigger one of these inputs using a binary signal. One of these may even restrict boost levels but I don't recall.

For those that don't have the ability to change maps - I would set up a relay to cut the circuit to the boost solenoid. This would limit boost to WG spring pressure.

At a minimum you would want to hook up a water level switch for if you run low on water.

I do also have a pressure gauge I am going to hook up and add into the fault system where if pressure drops below a certain level the warning light will trigger the same fault switch that the low water does. This should catch leaks at least and back up the water level switch.

I am relying on the filter and distilled water and reverse flushing of jet and filter to prevent a blocked jet for now while I gain a better understanding of fia2 and how to employ its fault sensing.

Plus I have a master kill that will turn all WI equipment off and change to an Xede NonWI map - with the flick of a finger.

Originally posted by jehcpa
Based on a question I sent to UTEC no it does not.

Xede absolutely does - it will switch all maps (TPS, Boost, MAP, MAF and timing) on the fly based on a ground based switch. This is what I use.

I would have to look closer at the stand alone tools - but if I recall correctly most have inputs that result in adding fuel and retarding timing. You could trigger one of these inputs using a binary signal. One of these may even restrict boost levels but I don't recall.

For those that don't have the ability to change maps - I would set up a relay to cut the circuit to the boost solenoid. This would limit boost to WG spring pressure.

At a minimum you would want to hook up a water level switch for if you run low on water.

I do also have a pressure gauge I am going to hook up and add into the fault system where if pressure drops below a certain level the warning light will trigger the same fault switch that the low water does. This should catch leaks at least and back up the water level switch.

I am relying on the filter and distilled water and reverse flushing of jet and filter to prevent a blocked jet for now while I gain a better understanding of fia2 and how to employ its fault sensing.

Plus I have a master kill that will turn all WI equipment off and change to an Xede NonWI map - with the flick of a finger.

If i could have all that saftey i would be all over this..

Dave

Originally posted by Kevin Thomas


Now that you mention it, does any aftermarket ECUs have an automated response to the failure of a water injection valve, water pump, water pressure, etc? In other words, can a Link, Motec, UTEC, etc be setup to do this?

There are two parts to this answer. First, how do you know that something is wrong, and second, what do you do about it? The Aquamist 2D system solves the first problem easily; it monitors the ratio of the solenoid pulses to the pump pulses and makes sure there is an appropriate volume of water flowing. If there is a fault, it has a solenoid/relay driver output that can be used to accomplish the safety mode of operation. If you have another system, you would probably need some form of flow sensor, and a circuit that senses that the flow is not appropriate. This would be easy with a constant flow system, but much harder if you are 2d or 3d mapping the flow rate. It would add considerably to the complication of the system, which is one reason why I picked the 2D system for my car. Finally, you would obviously need some form of liquid level sensor to go to safe mode if the water reservoir level got too low.

As far as what to do if there is a problem, that can be as simple as a relay in series with the BCS that forces the max boost to be the basic wastegate boost, which should be quite safe with no water, or it could, with electronic logic, do something like switch the map on a UTEC. I've heard that the maps on the UTEC do not switch until the rpms drop quite low, so you might need a two step process of immediate boost reduction until the map was switched. I'm almost certainly going to do the simple solution, as I would not expect to have failures on a regular basis.

Hope this helps

Mark

Originally posted by scrat
I'm almost certainly going to do the simple solution, as I would not expect to have failures on a regular basis.

This is the nature of risk - certainly I would expect it to be rare in occurrence but extreme in results. So something is necessary however simple or complicated.

For those people who are curious about water/alcohol injection, let me tell you that it isn't for everyone. It is not a quick fix for more power, like N2O. Unlike Nitrous, If the WI system doesn't activate, you run the risk of harming you motor. WI also needs constant monitoring. A failed pump, no water, a bad relay, a clogged nozzle, a kinked hose, or a bad fuse could all spell the end of your engine.

Maybe this will make better sense:

A utec or xede is to WI......As an ecu reflash is to 100 octane fuel

One is "set and forget" the other needs tuning and monitoring.

Be careful with water levels. I've heard of cases where at a track day, on a good turn, the water pickup sucked air for a few seconds and even though there were safety measures in place, there was a second or so where there was no water being injected during full boost and the person heard the heavy detonation through his helmet...

So...while WI sounds awesome, and it's great that you are getting awesome results from it, I just wanted to mention some of the downfalls...

Ideally, that is another safety measure of a pressure accumulator it surves as a surge protection as well. Also in serious competition a baffle in the water tank is desirable. Fortunately on moderate use with an initially full water tank the washer resevoir tapers to the bottom offering some level of protection. But a properly identified concern for sure - just like fuel starving in high speed turns without fuel tank baffles will lower fuel flow.

Plus the water level switch is about a 1/2" above the water intake, the WI should kill well before water stops flowing - still a very valid warning above.

If you use WI at the track, be sure to check your water level regularly too! I have the STi RA tank in the back of my car, running Aquamist 2D and I got through nearly THREE tanks in a day! (The Sti RA tank is 12 litres!) I run two nozzles too (0,9mm and 1,0mm).

FWIW, running WI without fuel/timing changes will more than likely result in a hp loss. On the dyno, mine dropped 35hp, then we started pulling fuel and timing. We took about 20% fuel out before we got some good results! My tailpipe is a lovely grey colour!

Oh course, my engine is dead now, but detonation didn't kill it! Stress did! To much HP for stock internals :(

Scoob.

Originally posted by Scoob
If you use WI at the track, be sure to check your water level regularly too! I have the STi RA tank in the back of my car, running Aquamist 2D and I got through nearly THREE tanks in a day! (The Sti RA tank is 12 litres!) I run two nozzles too (0,9mm and 1,0mm).

FWIW, running WI without fuel/timing changes will more than likely result in a hp loss. On the dyno, mine dropped 35hp, then we started pulling fuel and timing. We took about 20% fuel out before we got some good results! My tailpipe is a lovely grey colour!

Oh course, my engine is dead now, but detonation didn't kill it! Stress did! To much HP for stock internals :(

Scoob.

sorry for the OT, but how much power were you ruinning on stock internals????

Running both a .9 and 1.0 nozzle?!!!! Thats a lot of water! Either you are moving masive amounts of air or you spraying too much.

What turbo are your running?

If he is running a 2d with larger injectors, the IDCs are too low to actually run the static volume through - he could be just right. But those sizes opened my eyes wide as well.

I don't know if you are running the 2D system with an accumulator or something, but the "Race Pump" looks like it can only supply a differential pressure of just under 4 bar above ambient with the 1.0 mm tip. I can only think that with both the 0.9 and 1.0mm tips that the pump can only supply a differential across those tips of a bit better than 2 bar above ambient. http://www.aquamist.co.uk/sl/plist/pic2/806-052/jetrate3.GIF

Take from that the boost that you are running and the real pressure differential drops across the tips. I wonder what kind of spray pattern you is getting with that lowered pressure. Probably pretty chunky drops if I had to take a guess.

But damn, if you are running ~30L of water per day, that is still a crap load. How many tanks of gas did that take you?

My initial reaction is similar that it is alot just offering an alternative possibility although not a likely one. Also keep in mind that those are static jet pressure drops - pressure is building back up between IDCs with the 2d but probably not enough for two jets that size.

However, if he is not maintaining 3 bar differentials during spraying the jets do not atomize properly.

It most likely is way too much water like over 25% water to fuel and it most likely is not maintaining 3 bar differentials at max boost assuming ~20 psi. This seems much more aggressive than a 2.0L would ever need. If he needs more than 1.0mm I would go no more than a .7 and .8 and then preferably not without a pressure accumulator and even then only because the IDCs are too low because of huge injectors. If the max IDCs are around 80% I see no reason to exceed the water flow of one .9mm on a 2d and a 2.0L.

I've basically been running UTEC, VF30, Stg 4 with intercooler and WI with custom maps. I was getting 300whp on pump gas, with no signs of detonation.

When tuning the amount of water, you should take your jet sizes up and up until the motor bogs under a quick wide open throttle, then back off the jet sizes a couple of tenths.

I run the 2D system with an accumulator. 20psi of boost. We could've got more out of it, but we were a bit scared by the amount of fuel we were pulling out. 20% is A LOT!

Zaxrex, I used about 2 tanks of gas. Note that this is track day use, not regular street! On the street, a tank last for about two weeks and two tanks.

I'm not the only one around here running so much water. I know of several others, and also with water alcohol mix. I know a guy with a 300zx TT that runs FOUR nozzles and that thing lights up its tyres on the freeway at 80mph!

As a side note, I ran WI on an Escort Cosworth in Europe. It had most of the system from the factory as it was one of the first 500 homologation cars for WRC. It used a bag in the trunk, that eliminates the opportunity for sucking air at the track (or on a rally).

Scoob.

BTW, you should see my UTEC map! It's positively scary!

Scoob.

A pressure accumulator completely changes the characteristics of the aquamist race pump. The pump is a pulse pump that puts out 7 bars without an accumulater and about 330cc/min. With an accumulator to hold pressure between pumps the output goes to 10 bars and I forget the volume. But that whole chart shifts up about 3 bars. So the possibility I was thinking of clearly has been implemented successfully.

If using larger injectors - I assume with that much fuel pulled you are running max IDCs of like 60%. There is plenty of time between HSV pulses with an accumulator to build up enough pressure to keep this going.

What is your pressure setting? I assume on the track you are on WI pretty much 80% of the time vs. 20% or less on the street.

Good work.

Originally posted by Scoob
I've basically been running UTEC, VF30, Stg 4 with intercooler and WI with custom maps. I was getting 300whp on pump gas, with no signs of detonation.


I am really sorry to go OT again, but I was under the impression that our engines will crank out well over 340WHP on stock internals with no probs at all. My current set up is pushing ut 290whp right now with a conservative tune, but now I am afraid to go any higher now....:(

I have had an engine go bacause of bad tuning, but are you sure that your engine died of 'natural causes' (too much power for the internals), or is there a possibility that you could have been detonating over time without knowing it, or something else caused the failure?

Sorry again for going OT guys..:(

I'm 100% sure that detonation didn't kill my engine. The 300hp was fairly conservative considering water injection. Sure, it was aggressive if WI wasn't involved. I had a 320hp map too, and no det there either. If it did det, it was only a count of 1, and it was only very occasionally, like a 5th gear WOT pulling for top speed under quite a load. I never ventured there too often in the interest of preserving my privelege to drive! I had my CEL set to light up when knock is detected, so it's easy to monitor without hooking up a laptop too.

In the UK (I'm a Brit BTW), they don't take the WRX's to the levels we're taking them for this reason. If people want 300hp+, they buy an STi. Unfortunately, we haven't had that pleasure, until now. I talk to some friends over ther and they're astounded by what we're doing!

Mine was the classic #4 failure, FWIW.

I'm going to start a poll in Factory Forced Induction to see how many #4 failures are out there.

Scoob.

The groupbuy is still going on if anybody is interested....feel free to pm me if you like.

Just last night i gave a local srt-4 owner a ride in my car, and i took him down the street and back, doing a few pulls in 1st, 2nd, and a little bit of 3rd. When we got back to the parking lot, he humbly said "yea, this is faster than my car". HAHA while I was getting on it through the gears he was like, "damn this thing is fast". I am currently assembling a W.I. Kit for his car, as he will be the first. He gave me a ride in his neon, too. It was ok. I wasn't super-impressed though, but it was still kinda fast. Traction wasnt as bad as i thought, but he was basically stock so thats why he didnt roast them in 1st from a roll. Anyhow The W.I. is getting bigger, and the word is getting out there, slowly but surely. Dont be afraid to ask questions, its definitely worth a look!

Jeff

Originally posted by NavyBlueSubaru
Yes its basically the same kit, except the price i quoted was a rough estimate, it actually costs more. We are shipping better nozzles, more hose, and are also paying for shipping boxes. There is also "labor" involved, such as making the harnesses, and various other things that need to be done to get it all together. I spent like 10 hours last weekend just putting together 4 kits. I didnt get any sleep at all...i just stayed up through the night so that the kits could get out asap.

I guess I was just confused by the criticism of buying $300 kits.

Oh, and the total cost of the system? around $150.

pump - $78 + 12 shipping = $90
nozzle - $3
solinoid - $35
switch - $2
wires - $3
fittings - $10
Hoses - $1

Total = $144 This is approx of course but nothing near the $300-$500 others are paying for "kits".

I would have thought volume orders of the parts would haver reduced the costs. In that thread you were basically saying how silly it was to buy kits.

Originally posted by NavyBlueSubaru
The groupbuy is still going on if anybody is interested....feel free to pm me if you like.

I am currently assembling a W.I. Kit for his car, as he will be the first.

ummm.....Jeff, any word on my kit yet? Last message from you was that you were expecting solenoids last week, but have not heard from you since:(

Femi

The current word on the kits is this:

UPS was nice enough to ship our package to the wrong address, and then lose track of where it went. They are currently claiming that they are attempting to find it but as of right now we are screwed because our stuff should have been here about 2 weeks ago and they are still in never-never land. Nick is ordering some replacement parts today and having them shipped overnight so Your kit will be complete as soon as a solenoid comes in for you. Thats what we are missing thanks to ups. It is out of our control but tomorrow we should be back on track. Believe me, this is really killing us too. I'll pm you as soon as i know it is shipped out.

But honestly all we are waiting for is the solenoid, which ups lost a week ago and its fumbling around like a bunch of itiots.

Jeff

Originally posted by NavyBlueSubaru
The current word on the kits is this:

UPS was nice enough to ship our package to the wrong address, and then lose track of where it went. They are currently claiming that they are attempting to find it but as of right now we are screwed because our stuff should have been here about 2 weeks ago and they are still in never-never land. Nick is ordering some replacement parts today and having them shipped overnight so Your kit will be complete as soon as a solenoid comes in for you. Thats what we are missing thanks to ups. It is out of our control but tomorrow we should be back on track. Believe me, this is really killing us too. I'll pm you as soon as i know it is shipped out.

But honestly all we are waiting for is the solenoid, which ups lost a week ago and its fumbling around like a bunch of itiots.

Jeff

What can Brown do for you?

UPS must monitor group buys - I can't think of one that didn't have a UPS hangup.