it is back. started hearing it last week - gave it another week just to make sure.

the SOA rep will be at the dealership on wednesday and so will i with a powered down, pinging, SOA reflashed sti.

5200 miles on vehicle ~3000 since reflash

94 octane, A/C on, 100 degrees, 3500-4500 rpm..., pings under acceleration

ever play pachinko?

this will be twice into the dealership for the same problem within the warranty period. i really hope they can fix it, as i hate to have to fall back on the lemmon law if the 3rd try is unsuccessful.

Pinging with 94 octane? :huh: Build date? Location?

You did 3000 miles in 7 weeks?

Dude, that sucks! :(

I had my STi all summer...since late may... through 100 degree track days, 100 degree autocrosses were the car just gets heat soaked to hell as I wait in line for my turn with the engine running and A/C at full blast and no ping what so ever, original ECU!

The lowest I had was 93 octane in MI. In canada I can get Sunoco 94 anywhere.

I'm curious if this is related to a batch of cars or anything like that...??? :confused:

...oh, I'm at 5000 kms...3100 miles.

Originally posted by SubEd
Pinging with 94 octane? :huh: Build date? Location?

yes, pings on 94 octane after SOA reflash

dunno the build date - where do i look? is it by VIN?

location - tucson, AZ

i think the build date is at on the door panel..

seems like Cali and AZ are the worst in terms of Pinging.

Originally posted by Glenn Wallace
You did 3000 miles in 7 weeks?

"~"3000, is that bad?

~350 a week commuting.

250 extra miles to PHX for a certain dyno run..., run into town to get scooby snacks (20 miles each way), etc.

i'll get the service slip and post exact miles if it helps.

has ANYONE else made ANY progress on getting a dyno comparison. my email to porter offering to send my ECU went unanswered - FOR SOME REASON.

c'mon subie, make the numbers from your extensive research into the reflash available! that is, unless there is something to hide.

MUWAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!

i reset the ECU on saturday by disconnecting the battery for a few hours. we'll see what happens. no ping since reseting the ECU - ~70 miles since reset.

maybe the cool mornings (60s-70s) and the hot afternoons (100s) are throwing the thing off?

:D
if one screws up it is typically a training issue, if one continues to screw up it may be a learning disability.
:D


will this ECU ever learn?

Originally posted by mfisch
it is back. started hearing it last week - gave it another week just to make sure.

the SOA rep will be at the dealership on wednesday and so will i with a powered down, pinging, SOA reflashed sti.

5200 miles on vehicle ~3000 since reflash

94 octane, A/C on, 100 degrees, 3500-4500 rpm..., pings under acceleration

ever play pachinko?

this will be twice into the dealership for the same problem within the warranty period. i really hope they can fix it, as i hate to have to fall back on the lemmon law if the 3rd try is unsuccessful.

Wow, that sucks man - good luck, I hope you get it resolved.

-st

I think your local refinery is passing off 91 as 93, thinking no one will know the difference.

Originally posted by mfisch


this will be twice into the dealership for the same problem within the warranty period. i really hope they can fix it, as i hate to have to fall back on the lemmon law if the 3rd try is unsuccessful.

I'm curious whether the lemon law will apply since the owner's manual clearly states this is normal behavior for the car. I imagine the statement in chapter 7 of the manual will make it hard to make a claim of defect based on pinging.

I know you have concerns about the long-term effects and they are certainly valid, but it appears the car is operating within its design specifications.

I'm not saying I think you should roll over and play dead if you aren't happy, but this irritating characteristic of the car might just be normal.
<shrug>

i hear ya' killer, but they have already written it up once "pinging under acceleration" and tried to fix it - seems somewhat counter to your argument of FAD (functioning as designed) - why try to fix something that is FAD?

spoke with the SOA rep this morning, for some reason he feels i should have been running 91 octane. he seemed kinda suprised when i said that after 2 weeks of 91 octane on the reflash it was pinging like a beeotch. then i told him that i switched to 93/94 octane (no they do not sell it in AZ, but they do sell 100 octane race gas at 76 stations) is was OK for ~2 weeks, but it now pings worse than ever.

i now get det on cool mornings (72 this morning), A/C on, A/C off, hot/humid, cool/dry - you name the condition and i get det.

all i need to do to reproduce it now, is to floor it when the rpms are at ~3000 - PRIIIIINNNNNKKKKK.

it is really, really bad. mebee i should run 100 octane at 4.50 a gallon.

i'm somewhat resigned to the situation and told the SOA rep that the only thing i want is an STi that does not ping CONSTANTLY.

if that means a drop in HP/TQ i don't care and will sign a waiver or whatever they want. i also added that to make this repeat customer "happy" i really wanted an STi that did not ping CONSTANTLY on 91 octane - that would be too cool!

i hope it is just MY car and conditions. if not, subie may want to add some additional resources to getting it figured out.

Just to add to the discussion: I had my car reflashed at 3400 miles. Got the car back last week and everything was okay--no pinging.

Just today, about 300 miles later, I got pinging under WOT in first gear. Not nearly as bad as before, but definitely there. Same place--about 4500RPM. Add this to the very noticible loss in power after the reflash, and I am not amused.

-ch

Originally posted by mfisch

will this ECU ever learn?

aren't you supposed to power through the ping to get the ECU to learn?

Originally posted by mfisch
i hear ya' killer, but they have already written it up once "pinging under acceleration" and tried to fix it - seems somewhat counter to your argument of FAD (functioning as designed) - why try to fix something that is FAD?

spoke with the SOA rep this morning, for some reason he feels i should have been running 91 octane. he seemed kinda suprised when i said that after 2 weeks of 91 octane on the reflash it was pinging like a beeotch. then i told him that i switched to 93/94 octane (no they do not sell it in AZ, but they do sell 100 octane race gas at 76 stations) is was OK for ~2 weeks, but it now pings worse than ever.

i now get det on cool mornings (72 this morning), A/C on, A/C off, hot/humid, cool/dry - you name the condition and i get det.

all i need to do to reproduce it now, is to floor it when the rpms are at ~3000 - PRIIIIINNNNNKKKKK.

it is really, really bad. mebee i should run 100 octane at 4.50 a gallon.

i'm somewhat resigned to the situation and told the SOA rep that the only thing i want is an STi that does not ping CONSTANTLY.

if that means a drop in HP/TQ i don't care and will sign a waiver or whatever they want. i also added that to make this repeat customer "happy" i really wanted an STi that did not ping CONSTANTLY on 91 octane - that would be too cool!

i hope it is just MY car and conditions. if not, subie may want to add some additional resources to getting it figured out.


HOLY COW!!!!!!!!!

Mike, I have been so busy, I havent been following this thread!

OK, to sum up, you are now on the 2nd re-flash and pinging worse than before?

Let me hook you up, there is a guy that will deliver 55 gallons of Sunoco GT Plus 109 unleaded to your door. Under $300 for the first barrel, then $265 for every refill.

This is what I have been doing since day one of pinging on May 30th.

I plan to keep this up until ECUTEK has the BIN file to tune our ECU's.

Shoot me an email and let me know what you think!

BTW, just clicked over 9k miles and now run Amsoil full synthetic.

Originally posted by filbert


aren't you supposed to power through the ping to get the ECU to learn?

You can do this, but at what cost?

The pinging could smoke a piston while the ECU is learning!:mad:

Originally posted by mfisch


has ANYONE else made ANY progress on getting a dyno comparison. my email to porter offering to send my ECU went unanswered - FOR SOME REASON.

will this ECU ever learn?


Good question!

After I set the world on fire with the "un-usable" dyno results, PORTER came to the rescue with the Dyno Pack offers.

"Have you seen PORTER"

I have a business trip in Oct in which I may have to stop by Atlanta on my return trip. If I do, I plan on dropping in on Porter!

Crapper... I just started opening mine up (still at around 1100 miles)... audible pinging at around 4k.

Oh, and 300 bucks for 55 gallons equals 5.45 per gallon and 265 brings it down to 4.81. There's a Mobile station in Awhatukee that sells Trick 101 for 3.99 a gallon. It's listed as 101 but thats with the (R+M)/2 method. Using just the Research grad it's around 107 octane (which is probably what the Sunoco is rated in). Stupid Arizona gas and weather.

I just had the reflash... It pinged only once right after me picking my car up. But, now (a week into it), I cannot get it to ping no matter how hard I drive! (same tank of gas as before reflash).

For those who got the reflash, does your car start pinging back right away, or after a while (how long before it starts pinging back)?!?

I heard it ping righ after pick up, but later on it sort of went away. About 2 weeks later I was able to make it ping again, not as loud and often but still there. Going back to dealership next week for test drive and see what's next. Also asked to check with SOA for the official word on the power loss after re-flash. Like they going to tell, but who knows. :huh:

drdray, great... please keep us posted... BTW, what dealership did you go to? I went to Maita...

Edit: Also, what gas are you running? I am running toluene mix with effective octane of ~93.

Originally posted by Fhqwhgads
There's a Mobile station in Awhatukee that sells Trick 101 for 3.99 a gallon. It's listed as 101 but thats with the (R+M)/2 method. Using just the Research grad it's around 107 octane (which is probably what the Sunoco is rated in). Stupid Arizona gas and weather.

Hey Fhqwhgrass, ;)

Can you tell me the cross streets of that gas station. I'd like to check it out the next time I'm in Phoenix. I went to high school in Awhatukee so I know the area pretty well.

Originally posted by wolverine
drdray, great... please keep us posted... BTW, what dealership did you go to? I went to Maita...

Edit: Also, what gas are you running? I am running toluene mix with effective octane of ~93.

I go to Maita, they already know me I think by name :D . but probaly go :furious: when they see me. :eek: :D

Runing 91 from 76, I kind of go between that and Chevron. I think scooby likes 76 more, but I can't support that with any proof. It just feels kind of happy with 76 ;)

Shiv will be dynoing my car (I'm on my first reflash) alongside some other STi's. There may even be an opportunity to put an unflashed ECU in my car to get an apples-to-apples comparison--although I don't know if this will work (ECU locking, learning, etc.) or not. But if there are five unflashed STi's within 5% of each other and mine is down by 15%, then you know something's up.

-ch

drdray,

What did SOA say when you called them about the HP loss after reflash?

-ch

Originally posted by Darwood


Hey Fhqwhgrass, ;)

Can you tell me the cross streets of that gas station. I'd like to check it out the next time I'm in Phoenix. I went to high school in Awhatukee so I know the area pretty well.

Hey Darwood,

The gas station is on Chandler Blvd, about 2 miles west of the 10 freeway. It's on the north side of the road and there's a pump with a white handle (only 1 pump though, so you gotta go to the right one). I can't remember the exact cross-street... it's a little bit west of Hooters if that's any help :)

Originally posted by Darwood


Hey Fhqwhgrass, ;)

Can you tell me the cross streets of that gas station. I'd like to check it out the next time I'm in Phoenix. I went to high school in Awhatukee so I know the area pretty well.

Its the Mobile station next to the Checkers and Sonic, across from the library.

Chandler blvd and 44th st.

Although I question the method of figuring the octane rating, at the 2wd dyno I work part time at, the Trick 101 from that Mobile station cant hold a candle to the Sunoco GT Plus. The Trick stuff just doesnt have the anti-detonation properties that Sunoco has. My 2c - the Trick is really 101 and GT Plus is really 109, but I am not a chemist, I just know from experience that GT plus is superior.

Originally posted by hyperion
Shiv will be dynoing my car (I'm on my first reflash) alongside some other STi's. There may even be an opportunity to put an unflashed ECU in my car to get an apples-to-apples comparison--although I don't know if this will work (ECU locking, learning, etc.) or not. But if there are five unflashed STi's within 5% of each other and mine is down by 15%, then you know something's up.

-ch

When are you guys planning to run this test?

How many cars will be in attendence?

BTW - I got an email from ECUTEK, they are working on the 04 USDM ECU code, no ETA yet however.

Originally posted by horshack


Its the Mobile station next to the Checkers and Sonic, across from the library.

Chandler blvd and 44th st.



Thanks guys, I know exactly where that is. If I remember correctly I owe that Library $15 FROM 1994. :D

Also all I know is 101 is still better than 91 octane.

Absolutely 101 is way better than 91. Recomend a 4-5 gallon 101 mix with 91 fill up to be safe.

Also, I track my gas mileage, and I have noticed that I get crappy milage when I use the Mobile+Trick vs the Sunoco GT Plus+66 or QT 91.

Its like 2-3 mpg's difference. Have been tracking since June, and have just over 9k miles. So I have another issue with the Mobile+Trick mix.

When did u guys start noticing an audible ping from your STi? I live in Scottsdale, and commute every day in my STi about 50miles in 100+ degree weather and I have yet to hear an audible ping. I only run 91 octane gas and just barely added 4 gallons of 100the other day. With the 100 octane added I noticed it idling better and a little quicker on throttle response but have yet to hear a ping. Hopefully I got lucky. I know what its like to have a detonating vehicle, my 2000 Honda Hatchback had a CR-Vtec with 12 to 1 compression and it pinged if you dogged the engine. I guess I havent noticed it yet cuz this car is just to fun to dog around town in!

Scott

Originally posted by AZ2004STi
When did u guys start noticing an audible ping from your STi? I live in Scottsdale, and commute every day in my STi about 50miles in 100+ degree weather and I have yet to hear an audible ping. I only run 91 octane gas and just barely added 4 gallons of 100the other day. With the 100 octane added I noticed it idling better and a little quicker on throttle response but have yet to hear a ping. Hopefully I got lucky. I know what its like to have a detonating vehicle, my 2000 Honda Hatchback had a CR-Vtec with 12 to 1 compression and it pinged if you dogged the engine. I guess I havent noticed it yet cuz this car is just to fun to dog around town in!

Scott

Mine started to ping the 2nd day I had it May 30th, getting on the expressway, on an incline at 1/2 to 3/4 pedal. The very next day I called the dealer and got the word about requiring 93, so I have been mixing 94-95 ever since.

Originally posted by hyperion
drdray,

What did SOA say when you called them about the HP loss after reflash?

-ch

I asked a managed at dealership to check with them. SOA will not say a word on that.

after changing gas the det is not nearly as bad now. i even got ballsy and am trying a tank of chevron 91.... NOT - nasty det. now i'll try 76 91/100 mixed to 94.

the local dealer verified the version # on the ECU at SOA's request. wanted to male sure the flash "took". i've not heard back yet...

i got a boost gauge in 2 days ago. i noticed that i get "the det" (a new AC/DC song?) at less than 10 lbs of boost - this with the gauge reading an RCH either side of 15 lbs at max boost.

this REALLY sucks cause i wanna trick this car out some, but i got the det...

i'l be a responsible beta tester for the ecutek stuff if it will help espedite availability.

subie been real quiet w/me, other than crowing about how fast they got the first fix out in 2 months when i called 1800helpmemyhairsonfire.

hey - should i change my oil more often w/the det? don't it beat the isht out the crank bearings? help me.

:)

Originally posted by mfisch

i'l be a responsible beta tester for the ecutek stuff if it will help espedite availability.

subie been real quiet w/me, other than crowing about how fast they got the first fix out in 2 months when i called 1800helpmemyhairsonfire.

hey - should i change my oil more often w/the det? don't it beat the isht out the crank bearings? help me.

:)

Hey Mike,

I already email ECUTEK, and they are working on it. Mean while other companies like APS and such have gotten USDM STi's imported so they can tear them apart and see what makes them tick.

Great news about changing the gas, and I still have the number if you want to get a 55 gal drum delivered to your house.

About the oil, not necessary, if "the det" was causing enough damage to cause particals in the oil, you wont have the motor much longer anyway.

Dont get me wrong "the det" is extreemly harmful and is weakening your motor, but its something we have to live with for a short while until a tuner gets the ECU figured out.

SOA had the dealer erase the (fuel?) memory (vs reseting i guess) yesterday right after i filled up w/91 octane from a different station. i reckon that means the reflash "took". ;)

3 det events on the way home that day - 1 minor, 2 major.

it runs like a scalded monkey in the mornings - no det. the drive home is a different story - easy to get repeatability, just get on the freeway.

that was yesterday, this morning it ran like a chaffed, scalded monkey. i'm started to get all wet just thinkin' about it.

i should dyno it again. =)~

i clenched so hard with the det getting on the freeway this evening that it would have ruint even glenns butt dyno fer shure. OWEEE.

bizzaro - i'll keep it on 91 octane for another tank o' gas (i'm open to recommendations on how many tanks of gas to run before switching to a higher octane mix) - c'mon baby, LEARN and stay LEARNT!

be safe,

mike

Originally posted by mfisch
SOA had the dealer erase the (fuel?) memory (vs reseting i guess) yesterday right after i filled up w/91 octane from a different station. i reckon that means the reflash "took". ;)

3 det events on the way home that day - 1 minor, 2 major.

it runs like a scalded monkey in the mornings - no det. the drive home is a different story - easy to get repeatability, just get on the freeway.

that was yesterday, this morning it ran like a chaffed, scalded monkey. i'm started to get all wet just thinkin' about it.

i should dyno it again. =)~

i clenched so hard with the det getting on the freeway this evening that it would have ruint even glenns butt dyno fer shure. OWEEE.

bizzaro - i'll keep it on 91 octane for another tank o' gas (i'm open to recommendations on how many tanks of gas to run before switching to a higher octane mix) - c'mon baby, LEARN and stay LEARNT!

be safe,

mike


Hey Mike,

How are things going now a few days and many miles later?

How is the det.....?

Honestly this issue is really starting to pi$$ me off.

I have half a mind to fill up with 91 for 4 tanks, get a dyno chart - then get the reflash, then 4 more tanks from the exact same gas station and then get a another dyno.

Hopefully after 1000 miles on each ECU condition the car would have learned or died by then!

I have read some other posts that it took quite a bit of driving to make the ECU relearn new maps to be det..... free!

half way through my second tank of 91... it is still there, no more clenchers though.

being very much resigned to the situation, i drive differently now.

having said that, i put the exhaust on and set boost to like 13-14lbs (4th gear pull). no spikes, no creep. it still pings but i've learned how to drive around it.

the exhaust somewhat makes up for having to drive the car like a wus. ;)

blew one "cat inefficiency" so far - no pendings since clearing it.

i might have to move it to seattle for a while, mebee better gas and lower temps will a happier car make. hmmm, i don't think the stock rubber is good in rain...

where my ECUTEK stuff?

Originally posted by mfisch
half way through my second tank of 91... it is still there, no more clenchers though.

being very much resigned to the situation, i drive differently now.

having said that, i put the exhaust on and set boost to like 13-14lbs (4th gear pull). no spikes, no creep. it still pings but i've learned how to drive around it.

the exhaust somewhat makes up for having to drive the car like a wus. ;)

blew one "cat inefficiency" so far - no pendings since clearing it.

i might have to move it to seattle for a while, mebee better gas and lower temps will a happier car make. hmmm, i don't think the stock rubber is good in rain...

where my ECUTEK stuff?

So it seems as if the ECU is learning then?

After a few thousand miles might want to consider another dyno session. I will talk with Rich and see how he feels about another dyno day.

I agree, ECUTEK can't come out soon enough!

I also throw a "cat" code everynow and then, no biggie, I have the AutoXray, so I just reset and roll. It is rather annoying though.

~8000 miles. weather is 20-30 degrees cooler now. 91 octane only since ecu mem clear by the dealer.

only get a couple of "tinks" now when i floor it going up a hill - 30-40 minutes into the commute home ~80 degrees.

it is supposed to start getting cold next week - highs in the 70's.

it seems to never det in the mornings..

i wonder if it will come back with the hotter weather.

even with the det, this vehicle is without a doubt the most fun to drive i have owned, second most fun was the 02' WRX and third was the '00 StooK

hmmm, that 260Z was a lot of...

Mike,

Glad to hear yours is getting better. My car has 1700 miles on it now, and is behaving in a similar way. When it's fully warmed up, I can get it to ping for just a fraction of a second between 3k and 4k by flooring it under heavy load. It doesn't do it all the time, but every once in a while. I'm still not sure if my car is reflashed already or not. Next time I take it in for service, I'll have Emich check.

we had a spat of colder weather and i swear i did not hear any det.

the last 2 days have been close to 80 for the highs. today i was reading 85 on the outside temp display and i heard det on the onramp to the freeway.

i'm starting to think this is temp related. the temps are supposed to drop substantially over the next few days - maybe even a freeze on sunday night.

if i don't hear det on the colder days with the same driving habits and gas...



cman,

emich will pop their subie computer onto the obd2 connector and can tell you if you have the reflash in like 5 minutes. there is a post with the exact proggy version that indicates the reflash. i have been in and out of there in 15 minutes. outstanding service department IMHO.

i'm pretty sure the reflash addresses a programitical inconsistiency (i don't like to use the "b" word) in the code - may not cure all det, but certainly makes things better. like glenn sez - get the reflash, closing thread.

drop me a line sometime if you want to drive me car, to see if the BPM exhaust makes a diff. i think it sounds like a VW. ;)

i'm working on 9K miles now.