any input , low's and highs on water injection systems? what should i know , i have a stage 4 fmic turbo xs wrx , i live in a very hot and hummid place , we also have low quality 93 oct fuel will this help me ? want or wish to run 21 to 23 psi of boost constantly without the use of racing fuel? wich set up you guys recomend the 1s from aquamist or the 2d? any extra info or mod you guys think i will need will be greatly appreciated...

NavyBlueSubaru is selling a water injection kit that rivals the 1S kit for less money. I have the 1S and have already toasted the relay switch on it somehow.

The 1S will let you have some safety with running that much pressure and heat from the VF30. If you want to tune for more power, get a water delivery controlled system that will meter the water with RPMs.

I have the 2d system and have had no problems at all. Have noticed that the computer does not pull timing in hot weather like it used to. Just got a VF 34 and am going to Vishnu Friday for another dyno tune/reflash. He wasn't able to get more power out of the stock turbo with the water injection but he also said that it was very resistant to detonation. Have to see what happens this time.

If you haven't already look here:turboICE Water Injection Paper (http://www.turboice.net/?documents/turbowhitepaper/title.htm)

And a new forum started last week on it:
turboICE water injection forum (http://www.turboice.net/forum/)

Originally posted by zaxrex
NavyBlueSubaru is selling a water injection kit that rivals the 1S kit for less money. I have the 1S and have already toasted the relay switch on it somehow.

Only on the broadest use of the term would I say the NBS kit rivals the 1s.

The shurflo pumps were designed for RV water system pumping whereas the Aquamist race pump is a specific race application pump. That results in some differences worth noting.

The shurflo pump is huge in comparison and without some serious thought requires relocating other engine compartment components or a smaller battery.

The shurflo pump is much less heat resistant and heat tolerant than the aquamist. Both will turn off once their internals reach a certain temperature but Aquamist will tolerate about 10-20* C more heat build up. Also the Aquamist runs water through the entire length of piston pump mechanism and actually cools itself down while running - whereas the shurflo pump motor heats up while running water through one end of the diaphram pump.

The Aquamist pump case is a heat sink that will dissipate heat provided it is located in an area that receives air flow cooler than about 75*C - whereas the shurflo pump has a difficult time dissipating heat in any scenario.

Aquamist is very familar with shurflo products and has designed a pump that is better in every aspect with the possible exception of maximum flow - however both pumps are capable of flowing more water than any applications contemplated to date on this board.

5gph is too large a jet for most static flow applications, Aquamist offers a variety of jet sizes that meant to address almost any 4 cylinder application. I am only aware of one oil heater jet that can be installed externally and I don't think the NBS kit uses that jet, the aquamist jets all install externally for easy access, removal and swapping.

Additionally, the other kit being referenced can not be upgraded to provided variable water flow based on a map or replication of fuel IDC which permits much better tuning to optimize the use of WI. Aquamist upgrades also include diagnostic equipment to ensure proper operation along with providing a means for automated responses to failures.

Ed.
www.chargedperformance.com (NASIOC vendor)
www.turboice.net (water injection information and forum)

Yeah, and you pay for it. You can also start small with the 1S and upgrade from there, at a price.

I should have said NBS system rivals the simple 1S in value.

You may need different things depending on if you want protection or performance...

BTW, jehcpa, I think you are one of the oly guys I've seen talk tech to jon(CT) w/o him getting all Jon on you. Thanks for the research and write-ups.

[The shurflo pumps were designed for RV water system pumping whereas the Aquamist race pump is a specific race application pump. That results in some differences worth noting.

The shurflo pump is huge in comparison and without some serious thought requires relocating other engine compartment components or a smaller battery.

The shurflo pump is much less heat resistant and heat tolerant than the aquamist. Both will turn off once their internals reach a certain temperature but Aquamist will tolerate about 10-20* C more heat build up. Also the Aquamist runs water through the entire length of piston pump mechanism and actually cools itself down while running - whereas the shurflo pump motor heats up while running water through one end of the diaphram pump.

The Aquamist pump case is a heat sink that will dissipate heat provided it is located in an area that receives air flow cooler than about 75*C - whereas the shurflo pump has a difficult time dissipating heat in any scenario.

Aquamist is very familar with shurflo products and has designed a pump that is better in every aspect with the possible exception of maximum flow - however both pumps are capable of flowing more water than any applications contemplated to date on this board.

5gph is too large a jet for most static flow applications, Aquamist offers a variety of jet sizes that meant to address almost any 4 cylinder application. I am only aware of one oil heater jet that can be installed externally and I don't think the NBS kit uses that jet, the aquamist jets all install externally for easy access, removal and swapping.

Additionally, the other kit being referenced can not be upgraded to provided variable water flow based on a map or replication of fuel IDC which permits much better tuning to optimize the use of WI. Aquamist upgrades also include diagnostic equipment to ensure proper operation along with providing a means for automated responses to failures.]

I have nothing against the aquamist system, but for guy on limited budget like me, the Shurflow is heavent sent.
I have the installed the surflow pump on my 02 for over two years now (one month after I bought the car). First I used it for water spray and lately for water injection. And so far it is very reliable. It draws only 7 amps on start up and less then 2 amps contantly on. I mounted the Shurflow next to the muffler in the back and there is no heat issue so far. The Shurflow can run dry and self primes without damage, and that help simplied water tank mounting position. All other accessories that used to monitor the water level, audible sound to confirm that the system is working properly, automatic on, manual spray can be wired anyway you want. If you have the cash, get an aquamist, but the labor that involved will be just as much as installing a Shurflow pump. I like the aquamist for that it is small and you can mount it in the engine bay, but water supply can be a headache. As for the water jets, I am using aquamist jet because I found a cheap adapter that fits and and allow easy removal of the jet. My Shurfllow mounted all the way back of the car drives the .6mm jet with ease, it hardly turns on for more than a few seconds at a time.

Zax - I have mistepped a couple times around Jon - for me personally it is good though he keeps me honest and on my toes and I research that much harder as a result - can only be a good thing if I am prepared to back up my comments.

All - I am really not knocking Shurflo's in general and they are a value for what they are. I have used them myself for water injection for lack of an alternative - my point was that the kits are comparable only on a very liberal definition of rival. NBS has put together a kit that does what it does and at a good price relative to other alternatives out there. Everyone should just be aware of all the comparable attributes though, which WRXbob added to nicely.

I threw a rod on a 351 with 12.2:1 compression (using race gas and WI) with a WI kit that I made myself when the pump heat locked (not a shurflo pump) and the water stopped flowing. It goes like this everything is running right, det, det, det for a hundred rpm, boom. I speak from experience when I say - be aware of all the specs of your components and pay attention to their proper operation.

Other than that the shurflo has been used in many, many DIY kits over the years.

And in full disclosure I am an aquamist dealer - but I posted the exact same views before I was a dealer.