Originally posted by SUBE555
Looks like an uglier Camry. :p

I have to sort of agree... It's way too generic-Japanese looking for a halo car, IMHO.

I agree. Check out vtec.net for the best pictures of it. In the first one from the press pics, I thought the RL was wrecked but it was just the shadows. :lol:

Acura TL is waaaay sexier.

2006 Lincoln Zephyr

http://x.wieck.com/pv/WKA/2004/04/07/WKA2004040755913_pv.jpg

http://x.wieck.com/pv/WKA/2004/04/07/WKA2004040755998_pv.jpg

remember the highest selling car at the 04 barret jackson scottsdale auction was a 30's hot rodded zephyr.

Zephyr looks nice, Lincoln's version of the 500 I bet...

Edit: My bad: it's based on the Mazda6... :(

Nicolas

Originally posted by P2x
Acura TL is waaaay sexier.

Than RL or Peugeot? :lol:
Actually, I've seen the Peugeot in person and to me the TL looks like **** compared to it.
I like TSX much better but it's a smaller car. They over-did it with the lines on the door and the car in whole looks way too chubby.
I like the RL way better, smooth curves, no really sharp edges like the TL.

The RL is just about right for the 45+ set. Sleek, sedate, attractive but not in your face. Infiniti should learn that lesson for their next Q45. The Q might look great to those of us under 45, but we generally don't have the coin for it, or have other cars that we'd rather have.

Originally posted by Achilles38WRX
2006 Lincoln Zephyr

http://x.wieck.com/pv/WKA/2004/04/07/WKA2004040755913_pv.jpg



The grill is gawdawful and everything besides it its very reminiscent of the current generation Audi A4

Pictures from the 2004 NY auto show
http://gallery.dealerrater.com/gallery/shows.asp?galleryid=5

Link funked up.

http://www.cardesignnews.com/autoshows/2004/newyork/highlights/images/saab-97x-4125.jpg

Saab SUV Interior

http://www.theautochannel.com/N/F/news/2004/04/12/188976.1-lg.jpg

April 10, 2004; Jeff Green writing for Bloomberg reported that BMW, the world's No. 2 luxury automaker, delayed U.S. sales of a new entry-level 1-Series car because the initial hatchback model was unlikely to appeal to buyers, the company's CEO said this week.

"Americans don't like hatchbacks, and we are still deciding what the best model for the next 1-Series should be," BMW CEO Helmut Panke said in New York. The car's next version will be sold in the United States, he said, without giving a schedule.

BMW, seeking to replace DaimlerChrysler AG'sMercedes as the top-selling luxury brand, has introduced new models such as the X3 sport-utility vehicle and the $70,000 6-Series sports coupe to win buyers, particularly in the United States. BMW has led Mercedes in the United States since 2001 and trails Toyota Motor Corp.'s Lexus.

Munich-based BMW is building a factory in Leipzig, Germany, to free capacity in plants for the 1-Series model, which it will introduce this year in Europe. The car will compete with the Audi A3 and the Mercedes-Benz A-Class, neither sold in the United States.

Since 1990, sales of hatchback model cars in the United States have never exceeded 4.7 percent and typically don't top 2 percent, Lexington, Mass.-based Global Insight Inc. reports. Hatchbacks, with two passenger doors and a door, or hatch, in the back, accounted for 225,000, or 1.4 percent, of 16.6 million cars and trucks sold last year, Global Insight said.

"There have been negative connotations for hatchbacks because they were seen as cheap, like you couldn't afford a car with four doors," said Global Insight analyst Rebecca Lindland. "The attitudes are changing with younger buyers, but the automakers still remember they were unpopular."

BMW introduced a 3-Series hatchback, the 318t, in the United States in 1995, and sales peaked at 7,235 in 1996, Global Insight said. Sales fell every year after that to 700 in 2000, the last year for U.S. sales, Lindland said.

"Our success with the 318t many years ago was less than we expected," said Tom Purves, BMW's North American CEO. "From our perspective, there is not yet a natural hatchback market" in the United States.

Mercedes also will introduce a station-wagon version of a redesigned A-Class, specifically built for the U.S. market, in 2005, spokeswoman Donna Boland said. The A3 is scheduled to go on sale in the United States next year.

BMW sold 36,000 Minis, also a hatchback, last year and may reach 40,000 by 2005 by adding a convertible this year, Jack Pitney, head of Mini's U.S. unit, said.

Mini sells because Americans don't know it's a hatchback, Purves said. BMW will have a 1-Series U.S. model by 2010 and may be sold in the style of a sedan, coupe and convertible, he said. "The reason there is a question mark about 1-Series is that it takes us back into a size we've been out of. It takes us to a price point we haven't been to in a long time with BMW," Purves said. "Our view is we can."


BMW 1 Series Press Release
BMW is poised to shake up the compact executive segment with the arrival of the new 1 Series. Featuring four engines, three gearboxes and rear wheel drive, a combination not found in any of its competitors, the BMW 1 Series makes its entrance in Autumn 2004 and will immediately offer a new benchmark to driving dynamics in its class. A 1.6-litre petrol engine producing 150Nm of torque at 4,300rpm powers the entry-level BMW 116i. The 115bhp unit achieves a zero to 62mph time of 10.8 seconds and a top speed of 125mph. Even with this high level of performance, the 116i achieves an economical fuel consumption of 37.7mpg.

The high-performance four-cylinder petrol model is the BMW 120i with its 150bhp and 200Nm (at 3,600rpm) 2.0-litre VALVETRONIC petrol engine. Light and nimble, the 120i covers zero to 62mph in 8.7 seconds before going on to achieve a maximum speed of 135mph.

The BMW 1 Series launch line-up is completed with two versions of the powerful yet frugal 2.0-litre common rail diesel engine. The 122bhp BMW 118d averages 50.4mpg while posting a zero to 62mph time of 10 seconds and reaching a top speed of 125mph. The higher-performance 163bhp BMW 120d achieves 49.6mpg yet is capable of a 7.9 second zero to 62mph time and a 137mph top speed. Instant turbo power delivered smoothly to the red line results in the 120d posting sharper performance figures than its 2.0-litre petrol equivalent.

In-gear overtaking in both diesel models should prove rapid thanks to a maximum torque of 280Nm and 340 Nm respectively, much of this urge available from a low 2,000rpm. Both diesel-engined derivatives and the two petrol units are EU4 emission compliant.

Power is delivered to the road via a six-speed manual in 118d, 120d and 120i models, while the 116i has a five-speed manual gearbox. An optional six-speed automatic will also be offered on 120i and 120d models.

Although a new car in a new premium segment, the 1 Series has the traditional BMW design trademarks - the front kidney grille, double headlamps and 'Hofmeister kink' on the C-pillar all feature. These punctuate a genuinely head-turning styling that ensures the new 1 Series will stand out amongst its competitors.

After slipping behind the wheel and firing up the engine via a starter button, the driver will go on to enjoy BMW's renowned 50:50 weight distribution and front engine, rear wheel drive set-up - unique in this class. Coupled with a technically elaborate aluminium front axle and five-link rear suspension, this ensures optimum handling and traction, and the most invigorating drive in the compact executive segment. A drag coefficient of just 0.29 helps the new BMW 1 Series slip through the air with maximum efficiency and the minimum of noise. Standard fit 16-inch run-flat tyres also means the days of motorway hard shoulder tyre changes are over.

Measuring just 4.23 metres long, but with a relatively long wheelbase of 2.66 metres, driving dynamics have been cleverly worked into a practical four-seater. The new 1 Series offers ample shoulder and legroom for rear passengers and, thanks to split fold rear seats that fold virtually flat, a similarly generous luggage capacity of between 330 to 1150 litres of storage space.

Dynamic Stability Control, Dynamic Traction Control, Dynamic Brake Control and Electronic Differential Lock help ensure the 1 Series provides the highest standards of active safety without impacting unnecessarily on driving enjoyment. An airbag system that includes head airbags for all occupants means the new BMW 1 Series also meets the most stringent passive safety requirements.

The high level of standard safety features combined with structural integrity means that the new 1 Series is clearly aiming for five stars in the EuroNCAP crash test.

Meanwhile, optional extras include Bluetooth capability, sports seats with backrest width adjustment, acoustic Park Distance Control at the front and the rear and Bi-Xenon headlights. The pioneering iDrive controller when mated to a navigation system is also an option. Keyless access and voice-activated radio and navigation systems will appear after launch.

Overview of specifications

116i 85 kW /115 bhp at 6000 rpm; 150 Nm at 4300 rpm; cubic capacity 1.6 litres; 0-62 in 10.8 s; top speed 200 km/h (124 mph); fuel consumption 7.5 ltr/100km

120i 110 kW / 150 bhp at 6200 rpm; 200 Nm at 3600 rpm; cubic capacity 2.0 litres; 0-62 in 8.7 s; top speed 217 km/h (135 mph); fuel consumption 7.4 ltr/100km

118d 90 kW / 122 bhp at 4000 rpm; 280 Nm at 2000 rpm; cubic capacity 2.0 litres 0-62 in 10.0 s; top speed 201 km/h (125 mph); fuel consumption 5.6 ltr/100km

120d 120 kW / 163 bhp at 4000 rpm; 340 Nm at 2000 rpm; cubic capacity 2.0 litres; 0-62 in 7.9 s; top speed 220 km/h (137mph); fuel consumption 5.7 ltr/100km

Prices for the all-new 1-Series will be announced later in the Spring.

Originally posted by mh_WRX
The 115bhp unit achieves a zero to 62mph time of 10.8 seconds and a top speed of 125mph. Even with this high level of performance...

:lol:

No one would buy that 1 series because it looks god awfull. Thats almost as bad as the new concept subaru cars. what the hell is wrong with designers these days a lot need to get their ass kicked and find new jobs.

I can not believe no one has posted this yet, especially considering this is a BIG hint towards the next IS:

http://www.theautochannel.com/N/F/news/2004/04/08/188479.1-lg.jpg

http://www.theautochannel.com/N/F/news/2004/04/08/188479.2-lg.jpg


NEW YORK, April 8 -- Lexus introduced its third new concept design within a year when it unveiled the LF-C luxury sports coupe concept car at the New York International Auto Show today. The LF series of concept vehicles is designed to define and launch an entirely new direction in styling for the Lexus brand. The LF-C provides a hint of the direction Lexus is considering for the next generation IS 300 sports car.

"Design is among the most important differentiating factors between any two products and the LF-C expands the current IS 300 sport sedan into a new category previously not addressed in the Lexus lineup," said Lexus Group Vice President and General Manager Denny Clements. "The LF-C concept is designed to target an extremely young, affluent buyer with a strong element of surprise."

The surprise is provided by stylists from the Calty Design Research Center in the form of a 4-position retractable hardtop in the LF-C. The unique hardtop design allows the car to transform itself at the touch of a button from a coupe to a convertible, to a targa or to a speedster, depending on the driver's mood. The powered top stows neatly into the trunk through a surprisingly minimal rear-deck opening.

A large rear wheel drive platform utilizes a high-output, front-mounted V8 engine with a six-speed sequential automatic transmission as the basis and motivating force for the LF-C. With an expanded wheelbase of 5.1 inches, the LF-C is only slightly longer overall than the current IS 300. Significantly, the LF-C sits about 2.0 inches lower and is nearly five inches wider than the current IS 300. The broad stance and short overhangs strike an aggressive pose with ample dimensions to comfortably accommodate four adult passengers.

"We used a combination of convex and concave surfaces to control the balance of light and shadow on the car which creates this beautiful contrast of having sharp lines within the sculpted exterior surfaces," said Kevin Hunter, vice president of Calty Design Research, Inc. "The idea was to create a sense of strength and softness at the same time, adding an air of mystery."

Calty used long, integrated lines to simplify the overall form of the LF-C. The distinctive roof rail tapers as it moves forward from the rear, mimicking the sculpted theme of the main body. The extreme tapering of the main body shape from front to rear, which is then wrapped and interlocked by the rear fenders, is designed to show strength and power from every angle.

The interior communicates performance with drive-by-wire steering and Formula One inspired shifter and steering wheel with the gauges stacked along the steering column axis, ascending toward the base of the windshield. The gauges are transparent, with needles moving from the ring, rather than the center.

A dynamic and flowing center console, in a solid tapered form, runs the length of the interior. Displays and controls are hidden beneath this transparent console surface that is multi-layered, which creates a sophisticated, high-tech look and feel. The console is flanked on each side by arched, wing-like instrument panels situated low in front of the driver and passenger to create a feeling of openness.

Four lightweight individual bucket seats use slender shapes inspired by modern stemware to create a contrast of sport and elegance. The effect provides roominess along with a snug and secure feeling.

"We've known for some time that if Lexus ever prioritized styling the way we have product quality and advanced technology, we would once again change the luxury car playing field," said Clements. "The LF-C is a stunning example of how Lexus will address the future and change it at the same time."

Specifications
Wheelbase: 110.0 in.
Length: 178.7 in.
Width: 73.0 in.
Height: 53.5 in.
Engine: High-Output Double Overhead Cam V8
Transmission: 6-Speed Sequential A/T
Layout: Front engine, rear drive
Tire - Front: 245/35 ZR20
Rear: 285/30 ZR21
Wheel Size - Front: 20 x 9 in.
Rear: 21 x 10.5 in.
NOTE TO EDITORS: Electronic images are available on-line via the Wieck Photo Database (972/392-0888) or via the Lexus news media web site (http://pressroom.lexus.com).

I kinda like that new Lincoln - honestly I think I like it more just cuz its THERE. I mean come on here - anything short of an Aztec disaster is a good thing. Lincoln and Mercury NEED new products, no matter what they are, if those brands are going to stick around. They have been neglected long enough, while Ford pumped billions into its foreign divisions.


Oh, and BTW, the 500 and the Mazda6 platform are basically the same, so NICO, your right, and wrong. :lol:

There's something very...Volkswagen about that new Lexus.

The 1 series looks good IMO.
BMW's pretty snooty for saying Americans buy the Mini because they don't know it's a hatch. What exactly do we think it is then? What's the good selling Mazda Protoge 5? What's the disgustingly popular PT Cruiser? What's the tons and tons of Civic hatchbacks, CRXs and Integras and even Celicas on the roads? Americans haven't bought hatchbacks because in the past we've only gotten crappy ones, the 318ti being one of them. 318ti sales dropped because it sucked in comparison to a saloon 318. The ti didn't have much storage space and had a lesser suspension. I'd like to tell BMW, a big F U.

Originally posted by Hazdaz
Oh, and BTW, the 500 and the Mazda6 platform are basically the same, so NICO, your right, and wrong. :lol:
Hum... Not to nit-pick (OK, to nit-pick... ;) ) but I think you're mistaking the 500 for the ex-Futura (PepBoys owns the name, it seems...). The 500 is based on Volvo's P2 platform, from what I've read in Edmunds (http://www.edmunds.com/future/2005/ford/fivehundred/100076355/preview.html) and elsewhere.

If you look at the numbers, the Mazda6, Zephyr and ex-Futura are smaller than the Taurus whereas the 500 is bigger...

Nicolas

Its because the Lexus grille is bucked out with the emblem similar to the way VW has been showing their new concepts. The older Lexus models have a pulled back grille with emblem further from the bumper.

I'm a little disappointed in the new STS. I was hoping it would look more like this:

http://home.hvc.rr.com/nsyncnducesvomit/sts.jpg

The 1-series does look fugly . . . just like the Subaru concept cars. That alfa romeo grill is simply hideous . . . really . . . cant these car designers come up with something nice, rather than controversial? After all, they are supposed to design cars that can make money not lose money. Idiots.

Ironic that his board has mixed emotions about the new BMW styles. I personally like the new redesigns on the 7, Z4, 5, and now 1. Reminds me of the controversial look of the bug-eye Impreza that eventual grew on people and is missed and liked by some more than the new bland design, like me. :D

The german car magazine "Autobild" suggested the following comparison to the new 1-series from BMW.
I agree...

http://www.theautochannel.com/N/F/news/2004/04/12/188976.1-lg.jpg
http://www.tsv-sadelkow.de/George4.jpg

This is a "Hängebauchschwein", but I have no clue what its called in english...
:D :D

greetings
Arne

I'm going with 'fat ugly pig' for english.

..

Or maybe breakfast.. I guess it all depends on your point of view :D.

It means something like "hanging bellly pig" :D

greetings
Arne

It's a Korean Pot belly Pig, IINM.

My next door neighbor has one. It wears a pink collar. When it's in the yard (sometimes my yard) it drives my dog nuts.

Bob

Originally posted by BigElm
Pics don't do justice Farm........ :disco:

Or were you referring to the RL :confused:

I was referring to that butt ugly Peugot 607.

The RL looks a heck of a lot better! :disco:

BTW, the new 2 series looks much better than the 1.

http://members.roadfly.org/jason2/M2.jpg

Oh, and if the 1 series came in a Notch back instead of a hatch back (PS job from the e36 boards).....

http://photos.e46fanatics.com/data/500/14935m1_pshop-med.jpg

2006 Hyundai XG

http://www.uploadit.org/ascariss/020_avanp_x_1.jpg
http://www.uploadit.org/ascariss/020_avanp_x_2.jpg
http://www.uploadit.org/ascariss/020_avanp_x_3.jpg
http://www.uploadit.org/ascariss/020_avanp_x_4.jpg
http://www.uploadit.org/ascariss/020_avanp_x_5.jpg

Powered by a 260+ 3.8L V6, with a possible 290+ HP VVT coming 6 months later. Also AWD may be offered on both the XG and Sonata Mid 2006.

Nice. Any artist renderings? Finally, a Hyundai I would buy. :D

Oh, and a New Sonata Coupe by Mid 2006.

That 2 series looks like 2+2 Z4 Coupe.

GECKO2K2 - what info do you have on that pic/rendering of the Caddy - that is REALLY nice looking. After seeing THAT, the STS really should have looked more like that car.

Originally posted by Gecko2k2
I'm a little disappointed in the new STS. I was hoping it would look more like this:

http://home.hvc.rr.com/nsyncnducesvomit/sts.jpg

I don't care for this. The front end looks too Pacifica-y for my tastes...

http://images.usatoday.com/money/gallery/2002-ny-auto/1-pacifica.jpg

That Caddy Photoshop is so hot!!! SVS is real life is MUCH more toned down..

It is from a Road&Track 2005+ concepts article.

If the STS looked like that, or if Caddy makes their DTS (if that ever comes out) look like that, it will be one of the nicest looking luxury cars out, period. And what really gets me is that it doesn't look overly like a 'concept' (as in 30" rims and 2" ground clearance and absurd proportions) - its actually looks 'production ready'.

VERY nice!

http://www.cardesignnews.com/autoshows/2004/newyork/highlights/images/acura-rlc020.jpg

http://www.cardesignnews.com/autoshows/2004/newyork/highlights/images/acura-rlint11.jpg

This car size is hard to determine based on photo images, it appears smaller than the current car. Definitely looks like the Peugeot 407 from the rear. Alpha1

Is the current RL AWD? cause that one is

Look at the trunk lid on that one! Looks just like the 7-series BMW. And thats NOT a good feature to copy.

Originally posted by Alpha1
http://www.cardesignnews.com/autoshows/2004/newyork/highlights/images/acura-rlc020.jpg

http://www.cardesignnews.com/autoshows/2004/newyork/highlights/images/acura-rlint11.jpg

This car size is hard to determine based on photo images, it appears smaller than the current car. Definitely looks like the Peugeot 407 from the rear. Alpha1

Saw it at the NY Auto Show...

Alittle smaller then the Camry.. It doesn't look bad but the price tag will be from $48+k
:eek:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-04-13-daimler-mitsubishi_x.htm


Daimler plans to buy majority stake in Mitsubishi

By David Kiley, USA TODAY

DaimlerChrysler is expected to announce later this month a plan to acquire majority ownership in financially ailing Japanese automaker Mitsubishi Motors.
The German-American automaker already owns 37% of Japan's fourth-largest automaker and will spend about $3.8 billion in a bailout and raise its stake above 50% by 2006, say DaimlerChrysler officials, who spoke on background. Details will be announced in a few weeks.

The total bailout of Mitsubishi is expected to cost about $6.6 billion, with the balance being provided by Mitsubishi group companies including Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, and borrowing by Mitsubishi Motors.

The decision won't be met with enthusiasm by shareholders. DaimlerChrysler's acquisitions of Chrysler and Mitsubishi have drained more than $40 billion in shareholder value since 1998.

Mitsubishi expects to post a loss of $686 million for the year ended March 31. That would bring the company's losses over seven years to $3 billion.

Mitsubishi Motors is expected to seek approval of the Daimler plan at its April 30 shareholders meeting.

DaimlerChrysler recently installed Andreas Renschler, former head of its Smart minicar division, at Mitsubishi to assemble the rescue plan. Renschler is expected to replace Mitsubishi CEO Rolf Eckrodt as early as this month.

Mitsubishi has been beset by costly recalls in Japan. In North America, aggressive lending to underqualified buyers who later defaulted on their loans has hurt the company's bottom line.

Mitsubishi sales in the USA, down 26% last year, have slid 19% so far this year. It was the fastest-growing Japanese brand in the USA during the previous two years. The setbacks have delayed the company's planned expansion of its Normal, Ill., assembly plant.

DaimlerChrysler has always seen Mitsubishi as a way to keep a toehold in growing Asian markets such as China, South Korea and Indonesia.

Additionally, Chrysler and Mitsubishi are jointly developing both companies' next-generation small and midsize cars at a great cost savings.

But many shareholders view Mitsubishi as another problem child dragging down Daimler's stock price.

"BMW shares have increased 49% in the past five years, DaimlerChrysler shares have lost 47%," complained Klaus Kaldemorgen, head of mutual fund firm DWS Investments, at last week's annual shareholder meeting.

American depository receipts of Mitsubishi Motors rose 3% Tuesday to close at $3.05. Those shares are up 58% since December. DaimlerChrysler shares slid 2.3% to $40.43.

I wonder how this will effect the future of the Evo.

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=02840920

NO COMMENT.

Originally posted by rallyblues


NO COMMENT.

You won't get one here either. Seeing how the link is borked.

umm.... try taking the ...'s out of the url.

http://www.autoweek.com/search/search_display.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&content_code=02840920&Search_Type=STD&Search_ID=2058283&record=7


looks to be a typo to me

Here I believe (http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=02840920)

I'll give you the topic. He's talking about the MR...discuss.

http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=02840920:eek:

meh.

Originally posted by MER
Here I believe (http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=02840920)

I'll give you the topic. He's talking about the MR...discuss.



Try actually reading the paragraph below the picture,
yes we all recognize the picture of MR.

I corrected the link, my deepest apologies to the inpatient ones.

Let me make it really easy....

If you read our report on Mitsubishi’s 2004 Evolution MR (AW, Feb. 23), you’re ahead of the curve. None other than Mitsu U.S. chief Finbarr O’Neill confirms the [U]Subaru WRX STi Spec C-fighter will arrive on our shores by fall. /[U]The MR (for Mitsubishi Racing) comes with a six-speed manual tranny, active center differential, better medium-to-high-rpm power and substantial weight reductions by using aluminum wherever possible. Look for the U.S. version to start around $31,000.

I posted no comment, cuz I realize all of this sounds very strange. Mitsu CEO commenting on subaru and all.
However if subscribe to the subaru vs. mitsu war conspiracy theory, the fact that more and more sources discuss MR makes me think that spec-c maybe not be just a pipe dream.

We essentially have a Spec C right now though the Spec C is a bit more stripped and most Americans wouldn't really want it stripped beyond it's current content. Lose A/C and get a roof vent instead, now I don't know too many other than the hardcores that would want to shave 30-40 (whatever) pounds it is just for that.

There may be some slight upgrades as mentioned to stave off the ever increasing battle from Mitsu and the EVO, but I wouldn't look for much between now and the MY07 models. With an all new chassis and platform at that time, doing similar tricks to the Leg, they might be able to bring the USDM STi down to around 3000-3100lbs.

Could have probably posted this under the EVO MR topic though.

From Automotive Design News:


SHAKE YOUR GROOVE THANG

In an attempt to get some street cred for the new 2005 Mustang, Ford set its engineers the task of installing a powerful sound system. The result is the appropriately named Shaker 1000 – a 1000 Watt system with two trunk-mounted subwoofers guaranteed to rattle suburban windows (and homeowners) everywhere.


From what I gather they will be the same rears as the Mach 1000, which is two 10", and also add two 6" ones in the front doors, near the standard Shaker 500 speakers.

Delphi is also providing four other products on the new Mustang including the intrusion and inclination sensor module, smart electrical distribution center, 6 CD in-dash audiophile radio and the Delphi passive occupant detection system. Two Audiophile systems are available in the Mustang, a Shaker 500 with 500 watts of peak power and the Shaker 1000 with 1000 watts. On cars equipped with either system, each door has its own subwoofer in a ported enclosure. This allows the door-mounted woofers to produce more "thump" than if they were housed in the bare door. The 1000-watt version adds a mounted, ported enclosure in the trunk that includes two more subwoofers.

Both systems include an in-dash six-CD changer that has the capability to play discs with MP3 computer files. This allows customers to play as many as 200 compressed music files from one disc, making the Mustang’s six-disc changer capable of becoming its own jukebox with more than 1,200 songs, or 60 hours of music.

In the trunk, the subwoofer enclosure for the 1000-watt system takes up significantly less space than in the last Mustang. Computer-aided engineering enabled developers to keep its interior volume the same (to produce the same bass) while taking up less usable space in the trunk.

Originally posted by SUBE555
We essentially have a Spec C right now though the Spec C is a bit more stripped and most Americans wouldn't really want it stripped beyond it's current content.

yup, I don't know why people still don't get that.

Originally posted by SUBE555
There may be some slight upgrades as mentioned to stave off the ever increasing battle from Mitsu and the EVO, but I wouldn't look for much between now and the MY07 models. With an all new chassis and platform at that time, doing similar tricks to the Leg, they might be able to bring the USDM STi down to around 3000-3100lbs.

Could have probably posted this under the EVO MR topic though.

It is very clear now, the USDM WRX STi we have now is basically a Spec-C with a 2.5L, with AC and power windows and locks. Mitsubishi have to bring the MR over to level out the performance differences with the current WRX STi.

ADDICT

The MR is only rumored to make 285hp and 295lb-ft of torque. How is this so much more superior than the STi? You already get 300hp and 300lb-ft, the 6 speed, and active center diff for $28k from Subaru. Besides saving weight with aluminum panels I just see Mitsubishi playing "catch-up."

The 2005 STi will still be a much better value and daily driver than the EVO.

The USDM EVO already beats the STi performance wise in a lot of peoples eyes
I test drove both and I agree
Now from all the crap I've been reading on the MR, It's gonna be one big bad mofo
R & T says to forget the EVO cause that's exactly what you will do after you've driven the EVO MR :eek:
Will have to give it a whirl when it arrives to see if it lives up to the hype

May I ask how many of you race your cars at least once a week?
Do you really think you will see the difference between the current Evo and the MR on the street except for MR maybe being even stiffer?

The May Road & Track has a blurb on the MR on page 48. They trimmed 300 lbs from the curb weight which is where most of the speed increase is from. The new R&T spin off magazine called SPEED will have a full review. Apparently the specs they were able to get out if it are:

0-60 in 4.3
.98g on the skidpad
70.8 mph through slalom

That thing will handily smoke a stock STI. Road & Track also said the pricing will start around $33000.

Mag racers :rolleyes:

Why would Mitsu offer three different EVO platforms?

Evo

Evo RS

Evo MR


I can understand a stock Evo and an MR version.

But couldn't the market just wait for the MR?

You piss off alot of impatient customers who can't wait for the newer and better version...so they get the RS, and get upset when the MR comes out.


Ahem....*cough WRX...cough STi*

So the used market gets flooded with WRX's because the STi is available. Good and bad.

no mention of ayc in that article, hmmm...... Seems once again we don't get a full j spec model.

Neways the MR is gonna rock, I might own a STi now but that doesn't make me ne less of a car enthusiast that I can't recognize how :eek: this car's gonna be. And all for a starting price of 31k.

Gotta give mitsu :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: for this one

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/firstdrive/2005/audi.a6/05.audi.a6.bdg.500.jpg

Audi's new A6 is beautiful and $50,000 in the V8 quattro variant. Although this is pricey in comparison to the Chrysler 300C 4matic version which should come in under $40,000, the new Audi A6 looks as if it will be a much better value the the new 5 series BMW. I recently looked a the new 525 and the sedan was $52,000, which I though was insane. Alpha1

I find it very amusing that Subaru is supposed to move to their new 'trademark *cough*alfa*cough* grill to be distinctive and stand out, yet most of these new car cars (especially that Audi) are using the same styling cues.

Personally, I don't find that audi very attractive for the same reason why I think the 300c is ugly, too much grill.

Originally posted by subyfanatic
The MR is only rumored to make 285hp and 295lb-ft of torque. How is this so much more superior than the STi? You already get 300hp and 300lb-ft, the 6 speed, and active center diff for $28k from Subaru. Besides saving weight with aluminum panels I just see Mitsubishi playing "catch-up."

The 2005 STi will still be a much better value and daily driver than the EVO.

I wouldn't say Mitsu is playing catch up b/c they had evo out first.
All mag reviews put evo ahead of sti by a lil' bit, mostly b/c of the handling. They all said that sti was more powerful, but now with MR's 295 torque and 300lbs less weight - I think evo can edge out the sti there as well.
I'm buying the 05 legacy anyway... once a clear winner between evo and sti emerges - I'll get that too. (or just wait for the USDM skyline)
:D

i think the evo in its true form (with all the electronic wizardary that mitsubishi has) is a better road car

the transmission and AWD system on the subaru is the better rally car as mentioned by many

the MR is nice and all, but without the nice AYC other wonderful stuff, it doesnt fullfil its full potential. There is no mention of these systems in the press releases, perhaps too technical? or just not available.

completely true that the current STi is pretty close to spec C, but there r difference - no AC, no power windows, no stereo, plastic side mirrors(or cf, if u want to go all out), spec C suspension, halogen lights vs projection. simply a truely stripped car, comparatively a integra type R vs integra GSR. worlds apart but should be a cheaper vehicle, however it would never sell - given its price which is above most of us can afford to start with.

oh and the removal of the AC is a significant performance alteration. even without the AC on, it simply adds mass to the driveline

i think what subaru should do is release the sti in an auto sedan and wagon. this would attract the ppl that would buy it for the performance and utility but dont know how to drive. It is currently in a very niche market and it could grow.
everyone knows how great the G35 is, but even the majority of the great looking coupes are auto - now why do u think that is and how it affects sales?

there's no way it will be priced at $31k. Tha would kill all other Evo sales. Like I said above, R&T said prices will start around $33k.

i was under the impression that all evo's will now be MR's and RS's. There will be no other Evo being sold.

But if you shorten the grille, does it look like they really changed anything? :lol:

If you look at the previous generation A6 you will see that the grill has pretty much the same lines. In the older model, the bumper breaks up the grill and in the newer model the grill breaks up the bumper.

Personally, the car is too expensive and it doesn't look that good. My friend just shopped the A6 vs the 5 series and ended up buying a TL for like $10-$15k less and he feels the car is better. Go figure.

Originally posted by Alpha1
Although this is pricey in comparison to the Chrysler 300C 4matic version which should come in under $40,000...
Alpha1

Where did you get this info??? :huh:

The 300C (Hemi) starts @ $29k, fully loaded at $35k - The Hemi comes with a 5 speed AutoStick.

The V6 variants start a +/- $24k!

Where is the 300 lbs. less number you guys are stating coming from? The RS isn't even 300 lbs. less than the standard EVO, the MR is NOT 300 lbs. less than the standard EVO. The MR is VERY CLOSE in weight to the standard EVO, except for the aluminum roof, which saves 9 lbs. and lowers the CG. The MR has all the power options (windows, locks, HIDs, leather seating, stereo), and isn't a stripped version of the EVO, so how in the world could it weigh less than the RS?! It can't.

Just look at the specs for the MR on the Mitsu UK site and you can see that the 300 lbs. figure is pure fiction.

Main benefits of the MR are increased power, and tranny upgrades (LSD up front, possibly AYC - depending on which market it's in), and 6MT if you consider that a benefit.

Wasn't there already a thread about this? Anyways, many EVO owners currently don't consider the MR to be anything special, given the power you can get out of the standard US EVO8 right now. The EVO RS weighs 146 lbs less than the US EVO8. They haven't released any specs on what the US version of the MR is going to weigh, it's likely not going to be as light as it is elsewhere. The 6MT in the new EVOs hasn't been that well recepted in Japan, most like the old 5MT better due to the fact the 6MT makes the gear ratios too short. All in all, it's just not worth the $31k+ price they are touting currently.

From all I've read the RS and MR are special edition cars that have fairly low allotments. They are going to bring over enough of them that if you want one you should be able to easily get one, but I don't think it's going to replace the standard EVO. The RS doesn't have ABS which is a downside for a lot of people. The MR version is still over 3000 lbs, it weighs more than the Spec C version of the STI in Japan.

Originally posted by rallyblues
I wouldn't say Mitsu is playing catch up b/c they had evo out first.
All mag reviews put evo ahead of sti by a lil' bit, mostly b/c of the handling. They all said that sti was more powerful, but now with MR's 295 torque and 300lbs less weight - I think evo can edge out the sti there as well.
I'm buying the 05 legacy anyway... once a clear winner between evo and sti emerges - I'll get that too. (or just wait for the USDM skyline)
:D

"Catch up" because the STi already offered more for the money. Not because one came out before the other.

Either way, a drive of both the MR and the '05 STi will be the only thing to convince me, not what the magazines say. The current STi should not be the car that Mitsubishi wants to try and beat here in the US with the EVO MR. They have short-sighted goals and that's why the lighter, more responsive '05 STi will once again be the better all around car for the money.

IMO, The EVO is twitchy and nervous on any road with more than a crack or bump on it, the transmission is unreliable, the ride is harsh for a daily driver, the dash is less exciting than watching paint dry, Mitsubishi value doesn't hold, and it's already overpriced.

Originally posted by BigElm
Where did you get this info??? :huh:

The 300C (Hemi) starts @ $29k, fully loaded at $35k - The Hemi comes with a 5 speed AutoStick.

The V6 variants start a +/- $24k!

The 300C starts @ $32,995, the Dodge Magnum RT Wagon starts @ $29,995. The fully loading rear drive 300C is about $38,500 to $39,000. The all-wheel drive option is rumored to be just over $2,000. The typically equipped 300C are averaging between $34,000 and $35,000 when researching the local dealers inventories. My educated guess would be that the average 4-matic 300C will be $36,000 to $37,000 and topping out just over $40,000, the Hemi Magnum RT average around $32,000 to $33,000 and topping out around $37,000. You can build and price the Chrysler 300 variants on the Chrysler website or take a look at Edmunds.

http://www.edmunds.com/new/index.html?synpartner=edmunds&pageurl=www.edmunds.com/zipcode/new/&tid=edmunds.h..new..1.*

Originally posted by NPC
i think what subaru should do is release the sti in an auto sedan and wagon. this would attract the ppl that would buy it for the performance and utility but dont know how to drive.

No. It would attract people that have no business in a performance vehicle like a WRX/STi.

I like the new Audi look.... their VW bretheren were coming too close to looking like Audi's the last few years - now Audi has their own distinctive look again. And I think Audi's "big grill" design is lightyears ahead of any Subaru concept cars I've seen as of late.

Originally posted by Hazdaz
I like the new Audi look.... their VW bretheren were coming too close to looking like Audi's the last few years - now Audi has their own distinctive look again. And I think Audi's "big grill" design is lightyears ahead of any Subaru concept cars I've seen as of late.

I would agree, the new A6 is much better looking than the Benz E Class and the BMW 5 series, its closest competitors. To many cars are looking just alike, these new big grill cars are much more distinctive than the bulk of what's available today. I'm gald that several makes are making a bolder statement with there design direction, is good for the whole auto industry. Alpha1

Originally posted by Alpha1
The 300C starts @ $32,995, the Dodge Magnum RT Wagon starts @ $29,995. The fully loading rear drive 300C is about $38,500 to $39,000. The all-wheel drive option is rumored to be just over $2,000. The typically equipped 300C are averaging between $34,000 and $35,000 when researching the local dealers inventories. My educated guess would be that the average 4-matic 300C will be $36,000 to $37,000 and topping out just over $40,000, the Hemi Magnum RT average around $32,000 to $33,000 and topping out around $37,000. You can build and price the Chrysler 300 variants on the Chrysler website or take a look at Edmunds.

http://www.edmunds.com/new/index.html?synpartner=edmunds&pageurl=www.edmunds.com/zipcode/new/&tid=edmunds.h..new..1.*

I got the book right in front of me.. and those numbers are not accurate... So edmunds must have some bad info or someone screwed up...

Then again.. I always look at invoice, never MSRP :p

http://www.wheels24.co.za/Images/Photos/20030305073744meganecc_1.jpg

http://www.wheels24.co.za/Images/Photos/20030305073809meganecc_2.jpg

http://www.wheels24.co.za/Images/Photos/20030305073833meganecc_3.jpg

http://www.wheels24.co.za/Images/Photos/20030305110143meganecc_4.jpg

This is such a cool car, Subaru would be much better served producing a Legacy based car like the Renault Megane CC as opposed to the B9 Scrambler. The B11S could also serve as a platform for a retractable roof All Season Grand Touring Sports Coupe. These type of open top vehicles are as functional as All-wheel drive system and Subaru would do well to marriage these two technology and challenge the Saab Cabrio, BMW 3 or 4 convertables and the Audi A4 Cabrio. Alpha1

I guess this was just a matter of time. This is the first 4-seat* hardtop convertible since the late 1950s (Ford). It looks good.

* = Yes, the new Lexus coupe also seats 4, providing you've had your legs amputated.

Bob

http://www.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=2825&categoryId=10

The TL and TSX could be next, after the RL.

Bob

automatic only though...

even though how much i hate auto's, thats a very ignorant statement.

Originally posted by el~sharko
even though how much i hate auto's, thats a very ignorant statement.

Originally posted by SUBE555
We essentially have a Spec C right now though the Spec C is a bit more stripped and most Americans wouldn't really want it stripped beyond it's current content. Lose A/C and get a roof vent instead, now I don't know too many other than the hardcores that would want to shave 30-40 (whatever) pounds it is just for that.

I don't get how we have a spec-c, beyond sharing the front end geometry. From what I can make out from evo magazine, the current spec-c is an evolution of the S202. So, beyond the 300 and 30 or so horsepower twin-scroll engine and weight loss it also seems the spec-c has a seriously reworked suspension, and that's more than just increased front castor. It seems the spec-c either has the full pink link setup in the rear or hardened bushings, possibly revalved struts, stiffer springs, a thicker rear anti-roll bar, and who knows what else (maybe the hardened strut top mounts and futher bushing changes?).

Also, there's a real uniformity to the comments on the base STi between the European and American press: wallowy, a little vague, reluctant to turn in. They all agree it's just not as sharp as the evo.

The Spec-c sounds like a completely different animal with a radically reworked or at least rethought out suspension. It's harder, sharper and full on. No hesitation on turn in, no roll, no understeer. Whatever our STi might share with it in front end geometry, we don't have a spec-c here.

...and?

Originally posted by beaudawg
Where is the 300 lbs. less number you guys are stating coming from? The RS isn't even 300 lbs. less than the standard EVO, the MR is NOT 300 lbs. less than the standard EVO. The MR is VERY CLOSE in weight to the standard EVO, except for the aluminum roof, which saves 9 lbs. and lowers the CG. The MR has all the power options (windows, locks, HIDs, leather seating, stereo), and isn't a stripped version of the EVO, so how in the world could it weigh less than the RS?! It can't.



I know in that R&T Speed magazine, the writer claims it's 300 pounds lighter than a standard EVO, mostly from the aluminum roof and special BBS wheels. Mentioning the wheels struck me as a bit odd because they can't be much lighter than the Enkeis.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=39&article_id=1254

Perhaps the whole roof structure is aluminum, not just the panel. I keep thinking of that wrecked yellow SRT-4 in Mexico with the roof folded in like a soda can.:eek:

Car mags have been known to make mistakes before, so who knows.

Originally posted by dunny
I don't get how we have a spec-c, beyond sharing the front end geometry. From what I can make out from evo magazine, the current spec-c is an evolution of the S202. So, beyond the 300 and 30 or so horsepower twin-scroll engine and weight loss it also seems the spec-c has a seriously reworked suspension, and that's more than just increased front castor. It seems the spec-c either has the full pink link setup in the rear or hardened bushings, possibly revalved struts, stiffer springs, a thicker rear anti-roll bar, and who knows what else (maybe the hardened strut top mounts and futher bushing changes?).

Also, there's a real uniformity to the comments on the base STi between the European and American press: wallowy, a little vague, reluctant to turn in. They all agree it's just not as sharp as the evo.

The Spec-c sounds like a completely different animal with a radically reworked or at least rethought out suspension. It's harder, sharper and full on. No hesitation on turn in, no roll, no understeer. Whatever our STi might share with it in front end geometry, we don't have a spec-c here.

Well that's what I'm told from a couple of little birds in Japan. ;)

Esteve, they probably mean't 30lbs. :p

Originally posted by dunny
So, beyond the 300 and 30 or so horsepower twin-scroll engine and weight loss it also seems the spec-c has a seriously reworked suspension, and that's more than just increased front castor. It seems the spec-c either has the full pink link setup in the rear or hardened bushings, possibly revalved struts, stiffer springs, a thicker rear anti-roll bar, and who knows what else (maybe the hardened strut top mounts and futher bushing changes?).


Almost none of the above, actually. While the S202 had a bunch of that, the Spec C revision STi's are an evolution of the S202 in that it retained the front and rear suspension geometry as standard, instead of as a feature on a special release vehicle.

The main differences between the Spec C and the USDM STi are in the springs and dampers, along with differences in anti-roll bars (the front in the USDM is *larger*, I believe).

The most important difference, the body shell and lightening, looks to be the base of the USDM STi. The other parts are relatively minor and take little to change. From reports I have read of the USDM STi, the front end geometry of the Spec C, which the standard JDM STi does not have, is retained as well.

So the major differences are in spring/damper/arb tune. And in driver's in the US getting used to getting the most out of the STi.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com

Originally posted by esteve
I know in that R&T Speed magazine, the writer claims it's 300 pounds lighter than a standard EVO, mostly from the aluminum roof and special BBS wheels. Mentioning the wheels struck me as a bit odd because they can't be much lighter than the Enkeis.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=39&article_id=1254

Perhaps the whole roof structure is aluminum, not just the panel. I keep thinking of that wrecked yellow SRT-4 in Mexico with the roof folded in like a soda can.:eek:

Car mags have been known to make mistakes before, so who knows.

roof, beams, wheels, it's also stripped like RS

Ah well, half right. Not bad for reading the tea leaves in a magazine. Thanks for the full info Paul. So no hardened or pillowball bushings anywhere?

And what's the rear suspension geometry you mention in the first paragraph?

And one last wheedle: amped up springs, damper and ARB are all that needed to transform a car most agree is a little softer than an evo into something thoroughly hardcore? I loved the little aside evo had in track testing it (not quite verbatim): "feels like it was built by the same people who designed the evo VIII."

Originally posted by shirokuma
Almost none of the above, actually. While the S202 had a bunch of that, the Spec C revision STi's are an evolution of the S202 in that it retained the front and rear suspension geometry as standard, instead of as a feature on a special release vehicle.

The main differences between the Spec C and the USDM STi are in the springs and dampers, along with differences in anti-roll bars (the front in the USDM is *larger*, I believe).

The most important difference, the body shell and lightening, looks to be the base of the USDM STi. The other parts are relatively minor and take little to change. From reports I have read of the USDM STi, the front end geometry of the Spec C, which the standard JDM STi does not have, is retained as well.

So the major differences are in spring/damper/arb tune. And in driver's in the US getting used to getting the most out of the STi.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com

If Mitsubishi is releasing a version of the EVO that weighs 300 lbs less, I personally can't wait to see the crash test video and comments.

They will probably go something like "If you hit a speed bump in this car...you may suffer severe trauma."

Yes, Mitsubishi is playing catch up. The STI outsold the Evo. The magazines picked the EVO over the STI originally, but all the readers choice awards went to the STI. The Evo is still a Mitsubishi and has terrible fit and finish, the car is far too quick responding for 80% of drivers (even those looking at performance).

And despite all this, I will make a prediction right now. The moment Mitsubishi shows the MR at a car show, Subaru will do what they did a year ago, and drop a bomb about a US Spec C STI (or some such nomenclature) with 50 more horsepower.

Originally posted by dunny
I don't get how we have a spec-c, beyond sharing the front end geometry. From what I can make out from evo magazine, the current spec-c is an evolution of the S202. So, beyond the 300 and 30 or so horsepower twin-scroll engine and weight loss it also seems the spec-c has a seriously reworked suspension, and that's more than just increased front castor. It seems the spec-c either has the full pink link setup in the rear or hardened bushings, possibly revalved struts, stiffer springs, a thicker rear anti-roll bar, and who knows what else (maybe the hardened strut top mounts and futher bushing changes?).

Also, there's a real uniformity to the comments on the base STi between the European and American press: wallowy, a little vague, reluctant to turn in. They all agree it's just not as sharp as the evo.

The Spec-c sounds like a completely different animal with a radically reworked or at least rethought out suspension. It's harder, sharper and full on. No hesitation on turn in, no roll, no understeer. Whatever our STi might share with it in front end geometry, we don't have a spec-c here.

What you said is true. The US spec STi is no where the Spec C in terms of handling. For example, the Spec C laps Tsukuba in 1:04. The US spec STi does it in 1:08. For a short track, 4 seconds is a lot.

http://home.comcast.net/~alphagamma/US_spec_STi_tsukuba.jpg

Originally posted by Impreza01
What you said is true. The US spec STi is no where the Spec C in terms of handling. For example, the Spec C laps Tsukuba in 1:04. The US spec STi does it in 1:08. For a short track, 4 seconds is a lot.


It was not all handling. The difference between the USDM STi and the Spec C STi's, as noted by the drivers at the track, was a mixture of handling and engine. The 2.0 motor will spin to 8250rpm, while the USDM motor hits the limit much, much sooner. This affected the USDM STi at that particular track by quite a bit, because of the nature of the short gearing of the 6-speed transmission.

Then mix in softer damper/springs, a bigger ARB in the front which promotes more understeer, and altogether you have a big difference in times. I have even heard that the USDM STi 070 rubber is a slightly different compound, a bit harder for a bit more longevity.

The very nature of the USDM STi is that it has a very strong low-to-midrange powerband compared to the JDM STi, while the Spec C with the ballbearing twinscroll turbine is quite strong up high. The USDM sounds much more driveable, while the JDM is quite the circuit monster with it's setup - but harsh enough off the circuit that Subaru retuned it's suspension for a bit more liveability and traction in bumpy corners (ie, the mountains).

I personally feel that if Subaru had delivered the exact same suspension setup for the USDM as was on the Spec C JDM STi, enthusiasts would have applauded it - and not actually bought the car when they discovered how hard the car was to live with on a day to day basis. That is what happened with the Spec B Legacy turbo in Japan...

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com

I just read in Evo magazine about the Impreza Type 25 which I never heard of before. They basically said it's the baddest Impreza of all time. For comparison, they had a P1, Prodrive WR1, and one other. I didn't have time to read much of the article, but the Type 25 puts out over 350 bhp and performance numbers were very close to the MR, but with a better 1/4 mile and trap speed.

Something like that beast would be a nice counter to the MR. I like Subaru's approach...keep the body intact and just add more horsepower, a lot more! Performance while retaining safety, what a concept.

Originally posted by esteve
I just read in Evo magazine about the Impreza Type 25 which I never heard of before. They basically said it's the baddest Impreza of all time. For comparison, they had a P1, Prodrive WR1, and one other. I didn't have time to read much of the article, but the Type 25 puts out over 350 bhp and performance numbers were very close to the MR, but with a better 1/4 mile and trap speed.

Something like that beast would be a nice counter to the MR. I like Subaru's approach...keep the body intact and just add more horsepower, a lot more! Performance while retaining safety, what a concept.
I'd like it to handle too. Just having power to go fast in a straight line isn't nearly as fun as being able to use it while turning. ;)

Originally posted by SUBE555
I'd like it to handle too. Just having power to go fast in a straight line isn't nearly as fun as being able to use it while turning. ;)

Exactly, I remember a picture with it on opposite lock, and the caption mentioned something about its excellent handing and response...and ability to do powerslides.:)

0-60 in 4.3
.98g on the skidpad
70.8 mph through slalom




:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Originally posted by esteve
I just read in Evo magazine about the Impreza Type 25 which I never heard of before. They basically said it's the baddest Impreza of all time. For comparison, they had a P1, Prodrive WR1, and one other. I didn't have time to read much of the article, but the Type 25 puts out over 350 bhp and performance numbers were very close to the MR, but with a better 1/4 mile and trap speed.

Something like that beast would be a nice counter to the MR. I like Subaru's approach...keep the body intact and just add more horsepower, a lot more! Performance while retaining safety, what a concept.

The Type 25 is built by Litchfield Imports, not Subaru. http://www.type-25.com/

Originally posted by shirokuma
It was not all handling. The difference between the USDM STi and the Spec C STi's, as noted by the drivers at the track, was a mixture of handling and engine. The 2.0 motor will spin to 8250rpm, while the USDM motor hits the limit much, much sooner. This affected the USDM STi at that particular track by quite a bit, because of the nature of the short gearing of the 6-speed transmission.

Then mix in softer damper/springs, a bigger ARB in the front which promotes more understeer, and altogether you have a big difference in times. I have even heard that the USDM STi 070 rubber is a slightly different compound, a bit harder for a bit more longevity.


Is this for sure (as far as the dampers and springs being different for the U.S. STi)? Many people who have purchased take off suspensions from Japan have been following and tracking the type of dampers and springs that came off STis, Spec-Cs, Spec-C RAs, and regular WRXs both here and in Japan.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=361244&highlight=usdm+spec+spring+strut

People were unsure what they were buying and were trying to ID what components were being purchased. The dampers on the MY03 STi in Japan (if I am reading this right) were the same part number as those found on the MY03 Spec-C. The springs are also believed to be the same (count the number of painted dots on the springs and the color of the dots to I.D. them). I believe the only difference found was the top hats. I can't remember exactly because it was so long ago that I went through all this info but the suspicion was that the springs and struts may be the same. If am reading too much into all of this or reading it incorrectly, anyone feel free to correct me, as I find it all confusing sometimes.

So... to summarize, do we know for sure if the Spec-C is coming here or not? :huh:

I'm not betting on it one bit. Maybe a few improvements, but not likely a FULL Spec C. They'll sell a lot less than current STi's.

A "full spec" Spec-C might be cool. If Mitsu can sell the EVO RS, they could try and sell a Spec-C.

If they can figure out how to drop a few pounds, great! It's just not that viable a sell IMO, at least in it's current state of styling and weights. Drop to about the 3000lb mark when the new model comes out, a new sense of agressive yet good looking styling like the new Leg GT, and I think they could do much better with it. Amazing as it sounds, the wing as well as a few of the sporting compromises are big time hold-outs for many buyers wheras many of us given the financial ability to get one wouldn't really mind it.

I'm pretty sure they can drop a few pounds in the new model...perhaps using the same frame metal compounds as the new Legacy.

We'll have to wait for USDM MY07 while Japan will see it about one year earlier with their MY06. Still lots of time.

Originally posted by SoRnj
Mag racers :rolleyes:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

For the Wagon Fans....

http://www.theautochannel.com/N/F/news/2004/04/16/189827.2-lg.jpg

http://www.theautochannel.com/N/F/news/2004/04/16/189827.1-lg.jpg


Audi Launches RS6 with Extra ZOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMM...

quattro GmbH has launched an ultimate sports version of the RS 6, known as the RS 6 plus, equipped with features echoing the world of motor sport, as well as new colour concepts, and now developing 353 kW (480 bhp).

With an output of 480 bhp, the RS 6 plus generates 30 bhp (up 22kW) more than the standard Audi RS 6 version. The peak torque of 560 Nm is achieved across a range that now extends from 1950 rpm all the way up to 6000 rpm – in other words, the engine speed range across which this enormous traction is now available has been increased by a further 400 rpm.

The secret to this optimised performance is a new engine control unit. In order to maintain stable thermal conditions in the light of its uprated performance, the technical specialists from quattro GmbH have positioned two additional radiators behind the intercoolers.

The road performance is unequalled by any other model in the field of competitors. A mere 4.6 seconds elapse for the standard discipline of sprinting from 0 to 100 km/h. The Audi RS 6 plus hits 200 km/h in just 17.3 seconds.

Technology for the sports driver

The Dynamic Ride Control or DRC suspension has already created a sensation on the Audi RS 6. DRC involves diagonally-linked dampers with a central valve that reduces the rolling and pitching movements of the vehicle body by means of the damper characteristic, without the use of electronics.

Further specific features now underscore the professionalism and sports character of the Audi RS 6 plus.

The Audi RS 6 plus has perforated brake discs which are visible between the five arms of the larger 19-inch cast aluminium wheels.

Buyers of the RS 6 plus can in addition order sports suspension plus, at no extra charge. With variable damping, firmer spring/damper settings and a body 10 mm lower than the RS 6, its road behaviour and responsiveness are even more active and sporty.

A counterpressure-optimised sports exhaust system with matt black, oval tailpipes acts as a forceful mouthpiece for the lusty sound of the eight-cylinder engine.

The trim strips and roof rails, likewise in matt black, visually underline the enhanced sportiness of this model.

Inside the car aluminium pedals signal the special sports emphasis of the Audi RS 6 plus.

More equipment, more individuality

The new equipment concept is a major bonus. The Audi RS 6 plus has black natural leather seats and carbon fibre trim strips as standard. Customers can choose between all standard exterior colours of the RS 6 – and in addition there is a new Blue, Silver and Black/Cognac package available at no extra charge.

The Blue equipment package comprises the special paint colour ‘Sprint Blue’ pearl effect for the body, with seats in black leather with silver-coloured Alcantara centre sections. The blue threads in the carbon fibre inserts echo the body colour.

The Audi RS 6 plus with Silver package has the special body colour Silver metallic, and the black leather seats contrast subtly with the Alcantara centre sections, which are also black. The matt brushed aluminium trim inserts provide a note of contrast here.

The Black/Cognac equipment package looks particularly stylish. The exclusive body colour of Ebony Black pearl effect harmonises perfectly with the trim strips in black piano finish. Cognac-coloured leather seats with black piping accentuate the interior.

The Audi RS 6 plus is available only as an Avant.

Even the vehicle identification number emphasises the fact that the Audi RS 6 plus is utterly exclusive. The last three digits of the VIN are reproduced on a plaque inside the car, displayed on the centre console.

No more than 999 units of the RS 6 plus will be built.

Originally posted by mh_WRX
The Audi RS 6 plus is available only as an Avant.

That is cool :cool:

Again for the 80 thousand times, where the hell is the WRX STi wagon :confused: :mad:

ADDICT

Originally posted by shirokuma
The very nature of the USDM STi is that it has a very strong low-to-midrange powerband compared to the JDM STi, while the Spec C with the ballbearing twinscroll turbine is quite strong up high. The USDM sounds much more driveable, while the JDM is quite the circuit monster with it's setup - but harsh enough off the circuit that Subaru retuned it's suspension for a bit more liveability and traction in bumpy corners (ie, the mountains). [/url]

Hi Paul,

Just wondering, is the JDM GDBC spec C a much quicker car then the regular JDM GDBC WRX STi?

The reason I ask is, I have a USDM STi here in the U.S. and I have driven a 04' JDM GDBC WRX STi (not the spec C) when I was in Japan. Obviously the USDM STi with the 2.5L have a much stronger low-to-midrange powerband compared to the JDM STi, but I don't feel the JDM car have a stronger top end then the USDM STi, it is the same at best. I am just curious.

ADDICT

http://cocomats.mbz.org/files/custombig3.jpghttp://cocomats.mbz.org/files/custombig1.jpg
http://www.autosportcatalog.com/images/originals/coco-matincar-3.jpg

Throughout the seventies and into the early eighties Coco mats where the perferred floor covering for the European and Japanese sport & GT cars . They went along with the Kamai spoilers and Hella fog lamps. I have recently seen, that these type of mats, are available again. I think they would be cool accessories for the Impreza WRX and Legacy GT enthusiast.

I didn't intend to leave out the Outback and Forester group.
I am sorry!!! Alpha1

http://cocomats.mbz.org/

Lotus Works into a New Position
Britain’s little automaker is back – maybe to stay.
by Paul A. Eisenstein (2004-04-19)

http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gallery/7973_image.jpg

Is there room for a street-legal go-kart on the American highway? That could determine the fate of the long-struggling sports car company.

Founded in 1948 by the eccentric British race car driver, Colin Chapman, Lotus has built a reputation for innovative engineering - manifested in a series of unusual cars for road and track. The latest is the Elise, a pint-sized two-seater that's little more than a high-powered go-kart.

An earlier version of the mid-engine sports car has been on sale in Europe since 2001, but it wouldn't meet U.S. safety and emissions regulations, leaving American dealers with nothing else to sell but the extremely low-volume, $90,000 Esprit. That was a critical omission, admits Clive Dopson, the engineer who oversaw development of the new Elise.

"The U.S. market is extremely important to Lotus because 50 percent of all sports cars are sold in North America," says Lotus Managing Director Dopson, and so, he says, the automaker has spent the past couple years working on a U.S. version.

Toyota's halo

The new edition of the Elise has won a waiver for U.S. bumper regulations. So the most significant change is its emissions-compliant engine, a 190-horsepower in-line four lifted from Toyota's MR2 Spyder. Modified by Lotus, it delivers tire-spinning acceleration, with 0-60 times of 4.9 seconds.

Equally significant is the fact that the new powerplant lets Lotus bask in Toyota's halo, no small matter for a British brand never before known for its reliability. "It's a Toyota engine, so you know it's not going to break," says Duke Hale, the CEO of Atlanta-based Lotus Holdings.

With an all-new plant in the U.K., Lotus has capacity to produce 5000 cars a year - a figure that includes both the Elise and the Speedster, a spin-off marketed through General Motors' European Opel brand. At a starting price of $39,985, Lotus planners believe there's a sizable market in the U.S. for a car like the Elise.

"Hats off to them for trying," says analyst George Peterson, of California's AutoPacific Inc. The Elise is a "real enthusiast play," he says, though he questions whether the car is "too tightly defined? It may be tough to find 2500 people who want a car like that each year."

Despite such concerns, initial interest seems to be strong. Lotus Holdings is signing up dealers - it now has 39 outlets in 29 major markets and intends to add as many as ten more showrooms in the coming year.

Pushing the innovation envelope

Even with that distribution network under development, Lotus claims its American dealers have already taken orders for nearly the first year of imports. And Hale insists he's confident, "We could sustain that easily for two to three years."

Beyond that, he hints, there will be "innovative ways" to tweak the design of the Elise to renew market demand. And several additional products are in the works. That includes the Exige, a replacement for the aging Esprit. Currently, plans call for the new sports car to be sold only in Europe, but Hale confides it "certainly is poised for the U.S.," as well.

Over the long-term, the bullish CEO insists "I wouldn't be surprised to see Lotus selling better than 10,000 vehicles a year in the U.S. That's my ambition by 2009 or 2010."

That would certainly help solidify the situation at a company almost constantly in turmoil since its founding 56 years ago.

Like many small European sports car companies, Lotus' roots are in racing. Chapman had a string of victories to his personal credit, but he was also able to field a team made up of some of the world's most famous drivers, including Emerson Fittipaldi, Mario Andretti, Stirling Moss, Nigel Mansell, and Ayrton Senna.

Chapman's success had a lot to do with breaking the rules. His strategy depended on more than just increasing horsepower. He was an advocate of lightweight bodies and was one of the first to make effective use of aerodynamics.

That creative approach to automotive design earned Lotus a profitable engineering consultancy. It still counts some of the world's largest automakers, including Toyota and GM, among its clients.

A decade of turmoil

Indeed, GM was so impressed it acquired Lotus' engineering and carmaking operations in 1985 (though not the Formula One racing subsidiary). The marriage was not made in heaven, it turned out, and GM sold off the company in 1993, ushering in a decade of turmoil and frequent changes in ownership.

Since 2002, the British company has been a wholly owned subsidiary of Proton, an Indonesian-based automaker that dreams of becoming a serious global contender. Proton has pumped in much-needed cash, but is now looking for a return on its investment.

"The fact that we're still here is something of an anomaly," Dopson says with a grin, but one that reveals the uncertainty that has faced Lotus over the years.

Lotus is a small company with relatively big aspirations. Whether it can succeed will depend on the reception its little Elise receives when it rolls into U.S. showrooms this year.

Saturn set to double segments

http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gallery/7595_image.jpg
After a long product famine, Saturn is set for a veritable vehicle feast, one that will double the number of market segments it competes in by the 2006 model year. The General Motors division will grow to six segments with the addition of a new mid-size sedan based on the automaker's Epsilon platform, a roadster sharing the new Kappa platform with Pontiac's new Solstice, and a crossover/SUV larger than the VUE. The VUE is one of just three model lines in the division's current stable. "Some would say this is overdue," acknowledged Saturn's general manager, Jill Lajdzick, during a background briefing on Monday. Budget issues and pressure from other GM divisions blocked a number of Saturn project over the years. "If the clock could be turned back to 1993, I'm sure people would like to make different decisions," Lajdzick said. She also told TheCarConnection, "We're not stopping with calendar-year '06," a hint that Saturn is seriously eyeing still more product segments. One project under active study, according to GM insiders, is the Saturn Curve concept, a Kappa-based 2+2 coupe that received plenty of raves when it debuted at the Detroit auto show last January.

Nomad Gets Prelim. Green Light and Family of rear-drivers grows as Solstice closes in.
by Paul A. Eisenstein (2004-02-16)


Big things quite literally do come in small packages, as General Motors is intent on proving with a procession of high-profile products that will share the same sporty platform as the upcoming Pontiac Solstice roadster.

The sporty Chevrolet Nomad concept vehicle, first shown at the Detroit auto show last month, is tentatively approved for production by mid 2007, while an assortment of other sporty spin-offs of the new Kappa "architecture" are set to follow, well-placed sources tell TheCarConnection.com. These include a new Chevrolet coupe, a hardtop Buick convertible, and the long-sought "entry" model for Cadillac.

"We look at (Kappa-based vehicles) as a high-volume proposal that could really be sold anywhere in the world," senior GM designer Dave Lyon declared during a recent design forum in Toronto.

Accidental host

Ironically, the promising Kappa platform came about almost by accident. When he joined General Motors in August 2001, "car czar" Bob Lutz told his design team he wanted them to create a small, sporty show car that would debut the following January at Detroit's North American International Auto Show. Despite the speed the top-secret program required, the team assigned to the project produced a striking, back-to-basics running roadster that borrowed heavily from GM's global parts bin.

Strong public acclaim quickly convinced Lutz and other senior managers to put the Solstice into production. There was only one problem: they had nothing to build it on. GM's new Delta architecture, used for the subcompact Chevrolet Cobalt, didn't have the right dimensions and wouldn't have supported the sporty performance Solstice demanded. So it quickly became apparent an all-new platform was needed.

Using state-of-the-art electronic design tools, "We were able to cut 20 months off the development cycle," explained Lyon. Digital design also made it possible to build a great degree of flexibility into the Kappa architecture - GM-speak for a highly adaptable platform. That was critical because the inexpensive - base price under $20,000 - and relatively low-volume Solstice alone couldn't justify Kappa's development costs.

An assortment of possible spinoffs have begun showing up, both publicly and inside GM's well-guarded product development studios. The first, the Vauxhall Lightning, was produced for the automaker's British subsidiary and intended to underscore Kappa's global potential.

Nomadic tribe

Two more potential spinoffs were unveiled in Detroit in January. The Nomad takes its cues from a memorable, if difficult-to-describe, concept vehicle that first appeared 50 years ago at the legendary GM Autorama traveling road show. The newest model shares the basic, wagon-like exterior, integrating elements of both a sports car and an SUV.

There are plenty of what designers like to call "heritage" touches, including the fan-shaped instrument cluster and Chevy bowties etched into the interior aluminum, though the Nomad is not another retro-mobile. The new design features cutting-edge LED headlamps and taillamps, for example. The show car's tailgate folds down to reveal a pullout cargo bed. The rear roof panel can be manually removed, meanwhile, to create a sort of convertible effect. The Nomad is powered by a turbocharged Ecotec 2.2-liter four-cylinder engine turning out 210 horsepower.

The Saturn Curve, meanwhile, "defines a new direction for Saturn," said Lyon, with its goal to "make really good-looking cars for Saturn." The concept vehicle is bold, with a healthy dose of machismo. There are muscular, flaring front fenders wrapped around huge tires. The roof makes extensive use of glass to create an impression of almost floating atop the car's body.

Both vehicles required engineers to stretch the Kappa platform. The Chevrolet Nomad, with its 2+2 configuration, has a 107-inch wheelbase, two inches longer than the Pontiac Solstice. Senior sources revealed they have to work out some issues before these prototypes can be translated into production, such as repositioning the gas tank. But this is not seen as an insurmountable obstacle, as Kappa was conceived to support a variety of different vehicle dimensions.

The Nomad is now undergoing active - and rapid - development, with its roll-out tentatively scheduled for the mid-2007 model-year.

Kappa, Kappa, Kappa

Sources have told TCC the Curve also has been given a go, though the production version of this four-seater would be a good bit different than the low-roof NAIAS show car. But the Curve would provide the foundation for plans to rebuild the Saturn brand. In production, Saturn is expected to get both a coupe and sedan version of Curve, which would be slotted between the current L-Series and the smaller, much-maligned ION.

These three products would only begin to explore the possible applications for the sporty, rear-drive Kappa chassis, with its low center of gravity and short overhangs. Sources suggested a range of other products are under active consideration, including a Buick four-passenger model that could be equipped with a retractable hardtop.

Meanwhile, Kappa has a good shot at providing the foundation for a long-debated "entry" Cadillac model. GM officials have long argued over the need for a Caddy smaller than the current CTS model to compete with the likes of the BMW 3-Series and Mercedes-Benz C-Class. So far, they've said no, fearing such a product would have simply cheapened the brand, according to Cadillac insiders.

Kappa could help shift the equation. Its proportions would create a vehicle that was sporty and crisp, and the sharp-lined Lightning indicates the sort of look that would match-up with Caddy's distinctive "Art & Science" design theme.

The most active project would use the new platform as the base for a sporty coupe along the lines of the Mercedes CLK. Alternatively, it could be adapted into an SLK-style convertible. That would pair nicely with the Caddy XLR, which itself goes up against the high-end Benz SL roadster.

While there'd likely be a premium placed on the proposed Caddy, and the Buick, with a retractable hardtop, other Kappa models would continue to place an emphasis on "affordable." The new Solstice will carry a base price of under $20,000, and the Curve and the Nomad likely wouldn't be much higher than that "benchmark," stressed a GM source involved in the planning and development of the Kappa program.

There's tremendous support within General Motors for the various Kappa projects. With its low center of gravity, short overhangs, big wheels, and generally sporty dimensions, the platform is expected to provide a very visible base for GM's efforts to regain styling leadership in the global auto industry.

Sorry if this has already been posted..

Prices for the Scion tC are up:
http://www.scion.com/drive/pricing/drive_tc_pricing.html

Manual $16,465
Automatic $17,265

http://www.scionlife.com/gallery/tc/tc02.jpg

That's the mono-spec, no-haggle price. Dealer installed options like the TRD supercharger are supposedly going to be no-haggle as well. Scion kept saying "well under $20k"... it looks like they weren't kidding.

That car is going to be a mega hit.

Originally posted by Gecko2k2
That car is going to be a mega hit.

if you're referring to the tC, i'll have to disagree if you're talking performance. it's too darn HEAVY!!! it's a few pounds shy of 3000!!!:eek:
as for sales, who knows. the j-body is a pile of junk yet GM sells a ton of them since they're so cheap. proof that the car doesn't have to be good to sell well.

Sure its a fat ass but most people are going to get the supercharger since the original price is so damn low. The interiors on Scions are nice for its class and it has Toyota reliability. What's not to like for $17K?

Originally posted by Templar

Yes, Mitsubishi is playing catch up. The STI outsold the Evo.

Do we actually have the numbers to prove this?

Originally posted by Gecko2k2
That car is going to be a mega hit.

Affordability...

(07:30 April 20, 2004)
Cadillac seeks right mix with STS; option overload led to slow start for SRX


By RICK KRANZ | Automotive News

When the 2005 STS sedan goes on sale this fall, Cadillac will try to avoid the mistakes it made last year when it launched the SRX sport wagon.

Many shoppers suffered sticker shock last fall when they entered Cadillac showrooms and saw the SRX's $46,995 base price pumped up to $58,000 by options such as a navigation system, all-wheel drive and an extra-large sunroof.

The end result was lost sales, admits GM North America President Gary Cowger. The key to success is putting "the right mix out there to begin with," he said at the New York auto show.

The rear-wheel-drive STS is Cadillac's new premium sedan, which replaces the front-drive Seville sedan. Two versions will be offered: a V-6 model for $40,995 and a V-8 model for $47,495. All-wheel drive will be available on V-8 models.

GM will produce 30,000 to 32,000 STS sedans annually when full production is reached next year. Cowger expects the V-6 to account for about 60 percent of STS sales.

Last year Cadillac produced too many V-8 SRX sport wagons. Cadillac had expected that 75 percent of SRX buyers would choose the V-8 model.

But the sales blitz did not materialize, and dealers' lots filled with unsold models. Last year Cadillac sold only 5,049 SRXs.

Sales picked up this year after Cadillac added incentives. Through March, Cadillac sold 6,639 SRXs. Cadillac's annual sales goal is 30,000 units. Seventy percent of SRX buyers chose the V-6 model with a generous mix of options.

The V-6 SRX now starts at $38,690, including freight. The V-8 SRX sells for $47,290.

http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/articles/i21/2110_8mg.jpg
http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/articles/i21/2110_5mg.jpg
http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/articles/i21/2110_2mg.jpg

Nissan Maxima Ti Road Test

http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/A_2110/article.html

From AutoExpress:

REVEALED: SAAB'S SECRET 9-4X

You simply can't keep Saab on the road anymore. Auto Express has discovered secret plans for an off-road 4x4 with coupé-like styling. It's expected to be called the 9-4X, and will be a crossover - a vehicle that combines the driveability of a car with the practicality and versatility of an MPV or SUV.

The news came as company boss Peter Augustsson unveiled the 9-7X - itself a crossover - at the New York Motor Show (image). We've had an exclusive sneak preview of the design sketches of the newcomer, and although we can't publish them, there's nothing to stop us telling you about the car.

The model is sleek and low-roofed, with a wide track and big wheelarches. The styling of the signature three-hole Saab grille has also been developed, with the two outer 'nostrils' now merging into the headlamp clusters.

Saab design chief Michael Mauer said the car was planned "for the near future, and will be a similar size to the 9-7X", but lower overall. It will be based on a new Subaru - which is currently under development in Japan - and will be designed to perform exceptionally well on-road. Thanks to the Far Eastern manufacturer's highly regarded four-wheel-drive system, the Saab will also have first-rate mud-plugging ability.

The joint venture follows in the footsteps of the recently unveiled 9-2X crossover, which is essentially a rebadged Impreza estate. But unlike that car, the 9-4X will get a bespoke body as well as its own cabin design. The newcomer is expected to be seen in concept form at January's Detroit Motor Show, before going into production in late 2005 for a 2006 launch.

More revenue for R&D for Subaru/FHI. :p Now lets just get some of the Saab engine management tech like the per cylinder management. :cool:

Interesting. I would expect it to come out at least a year after the Subaru equivalent.

similar in size to the 9-7 ..... trailblazer .....

I am thinking based of the new 7 seater platform?

Originally posted by gibjer
similar in size to the 9-7 ..... trailblazer .....

I am thinking based of the new 7 seater platform?

Most certainly.

And what would be a Subaru equivalent? Something like B11S?

Wow, Saab just has no soul anymore whatsoever. GM has definitely ruined their originality.

Originally posted by Halforc
Wow, Saab just has no soul anymore whatsoever. GM has definitely ruined their originality.

I find their slogan quite humorous: "Welcome to the state of independence." :lol:

Originally posted by Impregacy
And what would be a Subaru equivalent? Something like B11S?


No, probably the 7 passanger crossover.

Originally posted by Impregacy
And what would be a Subaru equivalent? Something like B11S?

The 7-pax more likely, given that it is the closest-to-production of Subaru's new vehicles. (and the only model to be confirmed for production)

I don't see the point in offering two vehicles that overlap as closely as this and the 9-7x.

Originally posted by bull3964
I don't see the point in offering two vehicles that overlap as closely as this and the 9-7x.

Yeah, that does seem weird. Something tells me the 9-4 will be a superior platform, I dunno why. ;)

Two different price ranges. Subaru will be "low end" will Saab is their luxury brand.

Originally posted by Gecko2k2
Two different price ranges. Subaru will be "low end" will Saab is their luxury brand.

Hmm? Not sure what you mean by that, I was talking about the 9-4 and 9-7 being very similiar in size and for a small brand name like Saab it seems strange to have both models out there.

Who is "their" when you say "Saab is their luxury brand." Subaru and Saab are not owned by the same company.

the 9-4 will probably be like the forester and the 9-7 will be based on the new 7-pax. SAAB doesn't have a Forester or small suv equal so it'll probably just steal subaru's.

I'm with who ever said we need some SAAB technology. I'd love to see the variable displacement engine in a subaru in ~6 years. It would reignite subaru's excentric niche marketing.

-Robert

Originally posted by rbehny
the 9-4 will probably be like the forester and the 9-7 will be based on the new 7-pax. SAAB doesn't have a Forester or small suv equal so it'll probably just steal subaru's.

I'm with who ever said we need some SAAB technology. I'd love to see the variable displacement engine in a subaru in ~6 years. It would reignite subaru's excentric niche marketing.

-Robert

I think we can be pretty sure the 9-7x is based on the Trailblazer. That's what GM and Saab have been saying for some time now...
Not to mention, the news article says the 9-4x would be based on "a new Subaru", so it would be odd if they were talking about the Forester.

Then again the new Forester platform could very well be under development in Japan since the 7 pax is under development here in the USA. ;)

Now if Subaru and GM were to get together and Turn Saab into the Luxury line of Subaru, like Toyota Lexus and Honda Acura. Then maybe they would finally have room for a New Saab SVX?

Saab 9-2X priced from $22,990

Saab's new entry-lever sport wagon, the 9-2X, will start from $22,990 when it goes on sale June 1 nationwide, the Swedish car company based in Georgia, parented by GM, announced today. The 9-2X arrives in showrooms in two forms: the 165-hp, 2.5-liter flat four-powered Linear wagon, which brings with it 16-inch alloy wheels with 205/55 R16 all-season tires, AM/FM/CD stereo system, climate control system, cruise control, tilt-adjustable steering column, power door locks with remote keyless entry, power windows, power-adjustable exterior mirrors and rear window wiper/washer; and the 227-hp 9-2X Aero model, priced from $26,950 and equipped with larger front brake discs, hood-mounted intercooler air intake, front fog lamps, unique light alloy wheels, automatic climate control system, a six-disc in-dash CD changer, metallic-rimmed instrument dials, sport textile upholstery, leather wrapped sport steering wheel, shifter knob and handbrake handle. Both versions are available with either a five-speed manual transmission or a four-speed automatic transmission. The 9-2X is a reworked, Saab-ified version of the Subaru WRX/Impreza five-door wagon.

Originally posted by subyfanatic
Then again the new Forester platform could very well be under development in Japan since the 7 pax is under development here in the USA. ;)

Hmmm. The SG platform IS 4 model years old for MY05. A redesign should be imminent...

I think for Saab, we are looking at two vehicles that have the same relationship as Toyota's Highlander and 4runner. They are both about the same size, but have different philosophies. The 4runner is truck based and a little more rugged, but also rougher and looses ride quality. The Highlander is the car based model.

It's also the relationship that the Murano and Pathfinder share. Looks like many Auto companies are keeping both On-Frame and Unibody versions that are roughly the same size.

You can get a new GT Wagon for the price of that 9-2X Aero. ;)

Originally posted by SUBE555
You can get a new GT Wagon for the price of that 9-2X Aero. ;)

$3000 incentives and 0% financing will bring that into line..

If Saab will develop 9-4x off 7-pax platform they could downgrade it to 5 seater to avoid overlapping with 9-7x. Keep in mind "coupe-like styling" :) It could be something like FX35/45.

But on the other hand 7-pax based model would get 9-6x index because of its size. And 9-4x seems more reasonable for Forester based Saab.

The 9-2X is doomed to failure. It's like the '80s Mercury Capri to the Ford Mustang, only $4,000 more expensive. I think you'd have to be quite the tool to buy the Saab over the Subaru.

Some people want a fancier interior than the WRX has. Unfortunately for SAAB the Legacy GT now has that.

Originally posted by thrashvr6
$3000 incentives and 0% financing will bring that into line..

:lol:

it is probably about 100-150 lbs more portly as well.

Originally posted by SC WRX
The 9-2X is doomed to failure. It's like the '80s Mercury Capri to the Ford Mustang, only $4,000 more expensive. I think you'd have to be quite the tool to buy the Saab over the Subaru.

If the WRX was a little better looking, I might be considering it instead of the 9-2X. :rolleyes:

I guess I'm quite the tool...

Originally posted by Layman
If the WRX was a little better looking, I might be considering it instead of the 9-2X. :rolleyes:

I guess I'm quite the tool...

I guess you can think of it as a $4000 body kit that is covered by a factory warranty. Kind of like the A-Spec kits for the Acura TL and RSX-S.

Originally posted by rbehny
I'm with who ever said we need some SAAB technology. I'd love to see the variable displacement engine in a subaru in ~6 years.

that's really cool technology but i'm not sure if that could be implemented with a horizontally-opposed layout. besides, who needs variable compression when you have a turbo (or two) :D

Originally posted by John #555
that's really cool technology but i'm not sure if that could be implemented with a horizontally-opposed layout. besides, who needs variable compression when you have a turbo (or two) :D

The variable compression engine was built to improve fuel efficiency. Saab have been selling turbo engined cars a lot longer than Subaru. :)

Saab has some great technology: Active Head Restraint (I think already in some Subies), Trionic engine management, etc.

I've never understood badge engineering though --- why buy a Mercury Sable when you can buy a Ford Taurus?

Glenn

Originally posted by subyfanatic
Then again the new Forester platform could very well be under development in Japan since the 7 pax is under development here in the USA. ;)

Ah. Good catch.

Originally posted by Impregacy
But on the other hand 7-pax based model would get 9-6x index because of its size. And 9-4x seems more reasonable for Forester based Saab.

You would think so, but the article does say that the 9-4x will be "a similar size to the 9-7x".

Breaking NEWS!!

DaimlerChrysler to quit Mitsubishi

STUTTGART, Germany -- DaimlerChrysler AG said on Thursday it was pulling out of Mitsubishi Motors, leaving its bid to become a global carmaker in disarray and throwing the future of the ailing Japanese firm into doubt.

Mitsubishi will be eaten by Honda, Toyota or Nissan.

Here's another

BERLIN, April 22, 2004; Reuters reported that Daimlerchrysler said it was ceasing further financial support for Japan's Mitsubishi Motors Corporation.

DaimlerChrysler said in a statement that its management and supervisory boards had decided in an extraordinary meeting "not to participate in a capital increase planned by Mitsubishi Motors Corporation (MMC) and to cease further financial support for MMC."

The statement said: "After the earnings collapse of MMC in fiscal 2003, MMC has established a new business plan with the strong support of DaimlerChrysler.

"According to this plan, substantial financial resources are required to guarantee a sustainable financial recovery of the company.

"Together with the major shareholders of the Mitsubishi Group DaimlerChrysler has tried hard to establish a solid financial structure. However, it was not possible to find a solution leading to an acceptable result for DaimlerChrysler."

I'll tell ya.. Mitsubishi really put their foot in their mouths when they let people with bad credit buy their cars with that whole 0 down across the board. I should pay them $10,000 to let me take hold of the company's marketing division. I bet I could bring them back into profits.

Originally posted by Gecko2k2
Mitsubishi will be eaten by Honda, Toyota or Nissan.

Like they haven't been already....

I wouldn't be surprised if GM picked them up... they buy out anything and everything they can get their hands on...

Wow, that is big news there. Chrysler and Mitsu go back QUITE a long time (ofcourse it was one of them partnerships I never really understood, cuz I personally would never put Mitsu in the same leage as say Toyota or Honda, and at the time, Chrysler wasn't in the same league as GM or Ford - I alwasy thought it was a partnership of the 2nd-class automakers).

Anyways, I don't have TOO much fear there... watch GM be dumb enough to grab a percentage of Mitsu. :rolleyes:

According to an article in today's Automotive News, DC is going to sell Mitsubishi. Mitsubishi has been hemorrhaging red ink, and DC has had enough. The article mentions if a buyer can't be found, it could spell the end of Mitsubishi.

DaimlerChrysler to quit Mitsubishi

Reuters / April 22, 2004
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Other stories on the subject

DCX puts Mitsubishi under a microscope - 2004-03-01
Mitsubishi bailout may help vendors - 2004-04-19
Smart's boss asked to solve Mitsubishi mess - 2004-03-08

STUTTGART, Germany -- DaimlerChrysler AG said on Thursday it was pulling out of Mitsubishi Motors, leaving its bid to become a global carmaker in disarray and throwing the future of the ailing Japanese firm into doubt.

The group said that it had decided not to participate in a rescue capital increase planned by Mitsubishi Motors Corp. because it could not agree on an acceptable deal with other shareholders in the loss-making company.

It also said it would not provide any further financial support to Mitsubishi, Japan's only unprofitable carmaker.

"This clearly means separation," a DaimlerChrysler spokesman said, adding that the 37 percent stake would be booked as discontinued business until a buyer could be found.

Mitsubishi representatives could not immediately be reached for comment.
The decision came after an extraordinary meeting of the DaimlerChrysler supervisory and management boards on Thursday.
Supervisory board sources said earlier that the company had discussed selling its 10 percent stake in South Korea's largest carmaker Hyundai Motor Co. Ltd., worth about 850 million euros ($1 billion), to help fund the Mitsubishi rescue.

Mitsubishi, Japan's fourth largest and only unprofitable carmaker, had been planning to present details of a 700 billion yen ($6.39 billion) bailout to shareholders on April 30.

Reeling from losses generated by a disastrous strategy of offering cheap car loans in the U.S., Mitsubishi is expecting a net loss of 72 billion yen for the 12 months to March 31. It had a profit of 37.36 billion yen the previous year.
Mitsubishi Motors' net automotive debt stood at around 726 billion yen six months ago, while total interest-bearing debt was 1.141 trillion.
"This could be the end for Mitsubishi if nobody else injects fresh capital," said one industry source.

DaimlerChrysler bought the stake in Mitsubishi over three years ago with a view to expanding its presence in Asia. It has since worked to establish closer production ties between the Japanese firm and its other problem child, U.S. automaker Chrysler, to cut costs.

Bob

Ok, I guess I'll say it... RAPE!!! Hey Saab/GM, get your own cars dammit!! :furious:

Originally posted by rsholland
According to an article in today's Automotive News, DC is going to sell Mitsubishi. Mitsubishi has been hemorrhaging red ink, and DC has had enough. The article mentions if a buyer can't be found, it could spell the end of Mitsubishi.

DaimlerChrysler to quit Mitsubishi


They deserve to die off. The only compelling car they've produced (in the US anyway) is the EVO.

I guess Subaru is in a league of its own now. :D

But the Death of the Evo would be a sad day.

This was collected by a memeber on Spyshots:


HOLDEN, SWEDISH-STYLE

http://drive.fairfax.com.au/content-new/images/2004/04/07/07SAAB.JPG

Saab has built a full-sized model of a potential new flagship based on the 2006 Commodore.

Holden could play a pivotal role in saving its struggling General Motors stablemate, the Swedish brand Saab.

The Australian brand, which clawed itself out of the doldrums and near-bankruptcy in the early 1980s, is now a crucial supplier of large-car expertise to the GM empire.

According to a highly placed source, Saab's design team has completed a new, large sedan based on the 2006 Commodore underpinnings. Internally, the vehicle is dubbed 9-6, indicating that the car is larger than the ageing 9-5 and could be a new flagship model.

It is widely accepted within GM that Saab can no longer build big, powerful executive cars on front-drive platforms.

The 9-5's front-drive layout has reached its power and performance limits. Increasing power outputs oblige makers to use rear- or all-wheel-drive.

In Europe and the US, the executive-car market is dominated by the BMW 5 Series and Mercedes E Class, both of which are rear-drive. The AWD Audi A6 is also a strong player in Europe.

Given that the 2006 Commodore underpinnings will be flexible enough to accommodate Holden's new AWD system, the 9-6 could easily end up with all-paw traction.

Insiders say the future of the 9-6 is linked to that of Opel's Insignia concept, which is also based on the Commodore platform. If one gets the green light, so does the other.

GM bosses need the combined volumes of the 9-6 and Insignia -- at least 120,000 annually -- to make economic sense of installing the Commodore production line at Saab's Trollhattan factory. Such a move would make Trollhattan GM's large car centre for Europe.

Holden's 2006 Commodore underpinnings could support a range of off-road wagons with Saab and Opel badges -- GM's European subsidiaries want to compete with the Volvo XC90 and VW Touareg.

There are implications for the second-generation Holden Adventra. Drive understands it will have a unique body and not be based on the Commodore wagon, as is the case with the current car.

The Saab 9-6 is just one example of a shift in thinking within GM, which wants to duplicate the tooling for vehicles such as the Commodore to build them in factories around the world.

Not only does it improve economies of scale (Holden is now responsible for the architecture of GM's low-cost, rear-drive sedans) but it enables the maker to build vehicles closer to areas where there is strong demand.

Drive has previously reported that GM is considering building a new large, rear-drive Cadillac for Europe at Trollhattan.

n GM has dropped plans to build the Subaru Impreza-based Saab 9-2 in right-hand drive, but this is not the end of the line for the baby Saab, according to company insiders.

The right-hook 9-2 was cancelled in part because of the car's short shelf life. Work on the next-generation Impreza and 9-2 is under way and both are due in showrooms in three years.

The twins are based on an updated Impreza platform and the Saab version will get a much more distinctive look, including a bespoke interior.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

FROM WEB WOMBAT:

…General Motors is also rumoured to have been in talks with the local Australian branch, Holden, to build a new all-wheel drive Saab based on the next-generation Zeta platform (also earmarked for the 2006 VE Commodore) that could become the hinted-at Saab 9-6.

Seeing that Holden is looking at dumping a 6.0-litre Gen IV V8 in the new Commodore, Saab's new 4.2 and 5.3-litre L6 and V8 engines would have no trouble fitting in the engine bay, if based on the same floorplan. This would be food for thought particularly for BMW and Audi, who would both face even more competition in the prestige saloon market segment…

--------------------------------------------------------------------

From Carpoint.com.au:

SAAB TO BUILD A SWEDISH COMMODORE?

Plans for Saab to add a 9-6 large car based on Holden's next generation rear-wheel drive architecture took a step forward this week with a report in the European press confirming discussions had taken place. The report, published in the Financial Times newspaper, said that talks are at an early stage, and there is no certainty that the project will be approved, despite annual volume projections of 30,000 units.

Word of General Motors' plans for Saab to take advantage of GM's Zeta large car architecture first surfaced in September, 2003. General Motors' Bob Lutz was quoted saying: "A rear-drive Saab? Why not? It's not confirmed and I certainly haven't seen any sketches of such a car, but if Saab wants to participate with a 9-6, [with] rear- and four-wheel drive, that's up to GM Europe."

If approved, Saab's first rear drive vehicle would be built at the company's Trollhatten plant in Sweden, and be powered by a version of GM's global V6 engine, available in capacities from 2.8 to 3.6 litres, possibly turbocharged. The Saab plant may also build a second version of the car for Opel to sell in Europe.

DaimlerChrysler to pull plug on Mitsubishi

DaimlerChrysler AG said Thursday it will not proceed with a $6 billion-plus bailout of Mitsubishi Motors, leaving the future of the struggling Japanese automaker in doubt. The announcement is an about-face from reports last week that the German automaker would increase its stake from 37 percent to more than 50 percent by 2007 at a cost of $3.8 billion by buying up more stock as part of a broader bailout that involved Japanese creditors.
"In an extraordinary meeting on April 22, 2004, the Board of Management and the Supervisory Board of DaimlerChrysler have decided not to participate in a capital increase planned by Mitsubishi Motors Corporation (MMC) and to cease further financial support for MMC," said an official statement from DaimlerChrysler.
"This clearly means separation," a DaimlerChrysler spokesman told Reuters, adding that the 37-percent stake would be booked as discontinued business until a buyer could be found. The decision will be explained by DaimlerChrysler chairman Juergen Schrempp today.
On the minds of many in the U.S. is how a pull-out from Mitsubishi will impact a joint four-cylinder "world engine" development program between Chrysler and Mitsubishi, as well as development of small and mid-size cars between the two companies. Chrysler executives have boasted about how much money they are saving in development and purchasing by combining with Mitsubishi. Wolfgang Bernhard, outgoing Chrysler chief operating officer who is about to take over as chief of Mercedes-Benz, said earlier this month that no action regarding Mitsubishi would derail those programs. But analysts have doubted that Mitsubishi can survive independently without DaimlerChrysler, and no other buyers have surfaced.
David Healy, an auto industry analyst with Burnham Securities, said that in "pulling the plug" on Mitsubishi it looked as if group board members had "finally rebelled against Schrempp's pouring money down that financial black hole." Shareholders have called for Schrempp's replacement. But the supervisory board has continued to back him despite acquisitions of Chrysler and Mitsubishi draining more than $40 billion in shareholder value since 1998. Mitsubishi expects to post a loss of $686 million for the year ended March 31. That would bring the company's losses over seven years to $3 billion. Mitsubishi sales in the USA, down 26 percet last year, have slid 19 percent so far this year.
DaimlerChrysler recently dispatched Andreas Renschler, former head of its Smart minicar division, to Mitsubishi to assemble a rescue plan. Renschler was expected to replace Mitsubishi CEO Rolf Eckrodt as early as this month. -Jim Burt
DC Not Sure On Mitsu Plan by Joseph Szczesny (4/12/2004)
No direction taken yet - but plenty of behind the scenes discussion.

Will Saab ever build a unique car again?

9-2x -> Subaru Impreza
9-4x -> Subaru 7Pax (see some articles above...)
9-6 -> Holden Commodore
9-7x -> GM Trailblazer

there is only the 9-3 and the 9-5 left...

greetings
Arne

Boy, the possibilities here are staggering.

If DC sells both Mitsubishi and Hyundai, who would buy them? Another Asian car company? I doubt it, as there would be too much model overlap. GM, Ford or BMW? Again I doubt it. Renault? They've got Nissan, so again too much product overlap. Honda? Nah, not unless they get serious about trucks, then perhaps Honda could make use of Mitsubishi. Maybe VW, as they don't have a foot in the Asian market yet.

If it does come down to Mitsubishi (and Hyundai) going on their own, it will mean "survival mode," and that they will have to concentrate on vehicles that have the most potential to reap lots of money -- FAST! That means the EVO could be among the first to be sacrificed. The EVO is a great "image" car, but it will never bring them the kind of money they will need to survive.

Bob

No. They are basically just the luxury brand of Subaru for GM. They take car models that are otherwise "low class" and "Saabify" them by updating the interior and throwing in a turbocharger. Honestly, I don't see what's wrong with it considering GM Corp's vehicles are all relatively safe and reliable now.

Hyundai and Kia will do just fine without Mitsubishi.

I thought Hyundai and Kia were already independant and not part of Mitshu

NA NA NAAA NAAAA NA NA NAAAA NAAAAAA HEY HEY HEY GGGOOOOOOOOODDDDBYEEEEEEE NA NA NAAA NAAAA NA NA NAAA NAAAAAA HEY HEY HEY GOOOODBYEEEEE

THATS ALL I CAN SAY..O YEA AND THAT MEANS THAT SINCE THE EVO IS GONNA BE GONE LETS JUST SAY THAT THE STI IS GONNA MONOPOLIZE ITS LITTLE NICHE MARKET..(OTHER THAN THE GOLF TURBO THING)

:banana: :disco: :banana: :banana:

Originally posted by only1agam
NA NA NAAA NAAAA NA NA NAAAA NAAAAAA HEY HEY HEY GGGOOOOOOOOODDDDBYEEEEEEE NA NA NAAA NAAAA NA NA NAAA NAAAAAA HEY HEY HEY GOOOODBYEEEEE

THATS ALL I CAN SAY..O YEA AND THAT MEANS THAT SINCE THE EVO IS GONNA BE GONE LETS JUST SAY THAT THE STI IS GONNA MONOPOLIZE ITS LITTLE NICHE MARKET..(OTHER THAN THE GOLF TURBO THING)

:banana: :disco: :banana: :banana:

All caps sucks.

And I doubt that Subaru will monopolize the rice rocket market, as more and more competition comes out in that segment.

Where did they go wrong?

They Let the Germans help them... Look at WW2 - Germans started helping Japan and look where it got both of them....

LOL

Just Kidding...

No Mitshu got its hand seriously slapped with fines by the Japanese Gov. for not announcing recalls on its cars.

If you remember a few years ago - it was revealed that they wouldn't annouce recalls (in order to "save face") and would intice Mitshu car owners to come in for free service - while they would quietly do the repairs.

Anyway - they are still realing from the fines, and DCX owns a percentage of them but DCX (Mercedes, Dodge Crysler) isn't doing so well either based on the merger.

I just let a buddy of mine know about this

He had his heart set on a Evo next year because of the 10year/ 10K mile warranty...

With this news he was like "What good is the warranty if there is no more MFG anymore":lol:

Honda-->Acura.
Toyota-->Lexus.
Subaru-->Saab?

Just kidding.:)

Originally posted by Kuro
Honda-->Acura.
Toyota-->Lexus.
Subaru-->Saab?

Just kidding.:)

That may not be too far from the truth.

And would it really be so bad? If Subaru continues to build the vehicles on the same lines as the other Subarus, all it will really mean is that people will have the opportunity to pay $3-$5k more and get the HIDs and nav that they want ;).

I would hate to see the EVO go because I think it is good for the STi to have competition in the market. I would think it would lead to continued improvements.:confused:

Umm ya, also remember Mitsu's 0/0/0 financing they had going on for almost 2 years, when they were already in the deep stuff, that didn't help either,

Can a mod merge these threads?

Nissan - Infinity

Originally posted by Kuro
Honda-->Acura.
Toyota-->Lexus.
Subaru-->Saab?

Just kidding.:)

Originally posted by amdmaxx
Nissan - Infinity


Infiniti
;)

I want to play :D

Ford - Lincoln/Mercury
Jaguar - Aston Martin
Dodge - Chrysler
VW - Audi
Maserati - Ferrari
Mercedes Benz - Maybach
Mini - BMW
Chevrolet - Cadillac

:banana:

ADDICT

:disco: - :banana:

or is it

:banana: - :disco: ??

Im suprised that the usually knowledgable people on this board are not demonstrating their brain power. Mitsu is not going anywhere. Yes they are in loads of debt. That does not mean anything though. Mitsubishi Heavy Industries is a very large corporation, and will most likely bail out its car division. Just because the "saving grace" of DCX decides to bail out does not cue Mitsu to go belly up. I assure you that 10 years down the road Mitsu will still be selling cars in the U.S. (I wont be buying them though, Mitsu's service department has turned me off to their cars)

Basically Mitsu is a wounded dog, but not much worse than Ford at this point. (yes losses are more, but Ford isnt part of a huge corp. that can bail them out) Im surpirsed that a Subaru board would throw in the towel so quickly, as it was not too long ago that Subaru was considering an exit from the U.S. market. (Before the "wheels that slip to the wheels that grip" campaign) And to those who think the exit of the Evo would be beneficial to the STI, I disagree. Its competition that produces better products......

It is:

:disco: - :banana:

Banana man rocks harder then the monkey :lol:

ADDICT

Originally posted by Tristar Racing
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries is a very large corporation, and will most likely bail out its car division.

It is not that simple.

As mentioned in the other thread, Mitsubishi is similar to the baby bells in the US. While they share a name and may have some loyalty to it, they are all very much seperate companies.

Thus, while the whole of everything under the Mitsubishi name may be large, all of those resources are not at MMC's disposal to fix this situation. Any ownership in MMC by the other Mitsubishi companies is no different than the ownership from a completely unreleated company. In fact, the other mitsubishi companies only hold a combined 23% stake in MMC. There is no parent to magically make the problem go away, there are only sympathetic bothers and sisters.

They will do what they can to try the save the company, but don't think for a minute that this is some huge megaconglomerate that can simply shift money around in-house to fix it.

It's going to take about $8 billion to BEGIN to fix this current problem. $6 to fix the debt and $2 to buy out D-C's 37% stake. And that's only if MMC has a solid plan to return to profitability (which they already attempted to do in 2002). You can't keep throwing money down a hole forever.

If the shareholders are not convinced that Mitsubishi will be able to return to profitabilty and not continue losing money, they will dissolve the company.

If GM keeps handing over all of Suabru's unique goods to other GM companies (read: Saab), then this might happen to Subaru as well... :mad:

Originally posted by HB_Dad
If GM keeps handing over all of Suabru's unique goods to other GM companies (read: Saab), then this might happen to Subaru as well... :mad:

:rolleyes:

The only reason why the Saabaru exists is because FHI wants it to exist. If they didn't it wouldn't be there.

FHI doesn't have to do anything that GM asks and so far this relationship has been nothing but roses for Subaru. GM is letting them get into markets that they had no way to penitrate before at absolutly no risk to Subaru.

Mitsbuishi is in the shape they are in due to horrible mismanagement. From promotions that lost massive amounts of money to killing consumer confidence by covering up serious defects, it's all their own fault. Subaru is engaging in none of these activities.

oups, thanks..
Ford - Jag...
GM - Lambo..


Originally posted by phoenix96
Infiniti
;)

I agree bull. Besides, selling cars is selling cars for FHI/Subaru, they're either selling them to their dealerships or doing outsource mfg for another company. The benefit if I understand it right is that GM orders the Saab cars and has to worry about clearing them off lots, not Subaru anymore. That equals more somewhat hands-off revenue if I understand it right. :) Nothing wrong with that technically. More revenue for R&D and defering costs of other products/projects. :cool:

Originally posted by Tristar Racing
... And to those who think the exit of the Evo would be beneficial to the STI, I disagree. Its competition that produces better products......

Exactly! How else do you think the US market even got the STI in the first place? The EVO was released in the market which performance wise was a WRX killer at only a little more price. Subaru then decided to bring the STI into the US market, and is also part of why there is such a limited number of STI's being brought over as well as why there was no time to give the training on the 6spd tranny. It was brought to market ahead of when Subaru had planned on doing so all because the EVO (which was even more rushed to market) came to the US.

The introduction of the EVO and STI is also about to bring back the Supra to the US market. The Japanese manufacturers are finally seeing that there is very decent market in performance sports cars in the US again, all because the WRX had such a solid showing for so many years in a row.

There has always been a market for performance cars in the US. I heard a quote somewhere that said 50% of high performance cars sold in the world are sold in the US.

The question for each manufacturer is whether or not they can make a car that will be profitable in the US. Toyota's biggest problem in selling the Supra is that it's not a Corvette or a Cobra or a Porsche or any of the other brands that Americans jump all over.

The success of the STi and the EVO is more about culture than the actual cars IMO. Sure, they are great cars and enthusiasts who know about them understand. But you need more than a small devoted enthusiast market for a successful product (unless of course, they are stupid rich and will pay anything to have it which is not the case here).

You need the WRC fans and the GT3 fans too. The guy in the next cube at work wouldn't even know what a Subaru is if it wasn't for me. First he bought a WRX wagon... Now he's looking to trade it for an STi in the fall.

This means that Mitsu won't be in the WRC anymore either...

BOO!!!! First Toyota, then the Korean companies, now Mitsu. What Blasphemy!

http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/mitsu24_20040424.htm

http://www.usautonews.com/

http://www.detnews.com/autosinsider/

I'd like to see a Lexus badged Supra come out to compete with the corvette.

Originally posted by Porter
Can a mod merge these threads?

Ditto :rolleyes:

Originally posted by suby-brue
I thought Hyundai and Kia were already independant and not part of Mitshu

Yes they are. Hyundai pretty much always has been financially independent. They did buy lots of tech from Mitshu for years, but they quit doing that when they reallized Mitshu was going down.

This seems quite unlikely, but if I was in charge of Mitsu, here's what I would do:


Let Mitsubishi Heavy Industries inject capital into the company, remove Rolf Eckrodt and try to appoint a new CEO- I wish they could get Mark Fields (he took Mazda out of the red) but he seems happy with Ford- if push comes to shove, they should appoint Finbarr O'Neal (the prez of MMNA and the guy who came up with 10/100 for them and Hyundai) as their CEO- he seems like he would be better than anyone from DCX. Or they could sway Renschler away from DCX and get him to lead the company.

The next part is the most crucial- get investment from Hyundai Motors and merge the two companies.

There is so much overlap between the two companies:

Tuscani/Eclipse
Elantra/Lancer
Endeavor/Santa Fe
Terracan/Pajero
XG/Diamante (they already share A LOT of mechanical parts)
Sonata/Galant (the new Galant is a failure)
The Colt is Mitsu's sole shining star and much better than Hyundai's half-arsed Click/Getz. I'm sure they could maximise that platform.


Hyundai's Sigma V6 is also behind the curve in fuel economy and power- and that's where Mitsubishi could help them.

Mitsubishi and Hyundai can create a new 2.5, 3.0 and 4.0 V6 engine family using GDI (Isuzu has that, so why shouldn't Mitsu?) and MIVEC, which they can share with Hyundai (and even make them at their plants!) to save costs.


A new HyundaiMitsubishi Motors would be a profitable venture and IMHO, it's time to stop this silly debauchery from Juergen Schrempp, why DCX didn't fire him is beyond me.

Yeahh the new galant is hurting mitsu...I duno seems like a nice car to me, even the car mags liked it.

A lot will depend on the next generation eclipse.

Originally posted by babyvoxfan


There is so much overlap between the two companies:

Tuscani/Eclipse
Elantra/Lancer
Endeavor/Santa Fe
Terracan/Pajero
XG/Diamante (they already share A LOT of mechanical parts)
Sonata/Galant (the new Galant is a failure)
The Colt is Mitsu's sole shining star and much better than Hyundai's half-arsed Click/Getz. I'm sure they could maximise that platform.




Care to explain why these models are "overlaps"? Are you saying that these models share platforms and major components? I know some of them do, but cars like elantra/lancer, tuscani/eclipse, and sonata/galant are totally different. Plus last time I checked Mitsu had less than 5% of the Hyundai stock, so I don't quite get what you are talking about. Where did you come up with Hyundai/Mitsu merger?

You do understand that Hyundai motors also has sort of a nationalistic value for Koreans and they will want it to be independent, especially when it's been making record profits for the last few years? In fact Hyundai has been trying to reduce the technological dependence on Mitsu for years, (with a reasonable success) which is the exact opposite of what you're saying. You seem to be quite knowledgeble on the subject, but I fail to see the basis of your suggested plans.

I mean they overlap as they are in the exact same market subject and they attract the same kind of buyer.

Hyundai has made reliable cars for the past 7 years, but their V6 engines are lacking in horsepower and DCX had to help them refine the global four-cylinder in order to maximize efficiency and power. Mitsubishi has a good engineering staff, and combining that with Hyundai's way of minimizing manufacturing costs, and they have a winner.

I said this was unlikely, but it is my suggestion, and I believe it is a sustainable one. It seems that you think I said Mitsu should buy Hyundai when I said Hyundai should buy Mitsubishi.

The Koreans, nationalistic like they are (trust me, I've dated one for 3 years- hey Stacy!) won't mind- I mean it's a Korean company taking control of a Japanese company, if anything the Japanese will be angry. But aside from VW, and the newly revitalized Isuzu (read www.isuzuperformance.com/isupage and scroll down to Isuzu returns to making cars), I don't know who else would be a better match for Mitsubishi.




Originally posted by Len
Care to explain why these models are "overlaps"? Are you saying that these models share platforms and major components? I know some of them do, but cars like elantra/lancer, tuscani/eclipse, and sonata/galant are totally different. Plus last time I checked Mitsu had less than 5% of the Hyundai stock, so I don't quite get what you are talking about. Where did you come up with Hyundai/Mitsu merger?

You do understand that Hyundai motors also has sort of a nationalistic value for Koreans and they will want it to be independent, especially when it's been making record profits for the last few years? In fact Hyundai has been trying to reduce the technological dependence on Mitsu for years, (with a reasonable success) which is the exact opposite of what you're saying. You seem to be quite knowledgeble on the subject, but I fail to see the basis of your suggested plans.

This SH-AWD system looks pretty neat. I think this article with some impressions is new:

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=230131

I hope that they got enough reliability data from the Prelude SH to make this system strong-- if I recall the ATTS was great, but couldn't take a lot of extra power.

Eric

Nissan Reports Record Results for FY03
TOKYO, April 26, 2004

- Ghosn unveils highlights of NISSAN Value-Up to follow NISSAN 180

Nissan Motor Co., Ltd., today announced record operating profits of 825 billion yen (US $7.29 billion, euro 6.29 billion), up 11.9% for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2004. The operating profit margin came to 11.1%, reaffirming Nissan's position as one of the most profitable automakers in the world. Despite a negative foreign exchange rate outlook, operating profits for fiscal year 2004 are forecast to continue to grow to a new record level.

President and CEO Carlos Ghosn also unveiled highlights of NISSAN Value-Up, the three-year business plan that will follow NISSAN 180 in April 2005.

"NISSAN 180 propelled us to the top performance rank of the world's automakers. NISSAN Value-Up will broaden and strengthen that position," said Ghosn.

Consolidated net revenues totaled 7.429 trillion yen (US $ 65.6 billion, euro 56.6 billion), up 8.8%. Net profit after tax came to 503.7 billion yen (US $4.45 billion, euro 3.84 billion), up 1.7%. Return on invested capital reached a record 21.3%.

Nissan sold 3,057,000 vehicles worldwide in fiscal year 2003, an increase of 10.4%, or 287,000 units, surpassing the 3-million sales mark for the first time in 13 years.

"During the past year, Nissan boldly and thoughtfully leveraged its global reach," said Ghosn. "We advanced our operations in China through our joint venture with Dong Feng and entered high-volume, full-size segments in the United States for the first time."

NISSAN Value-Up

The company's new three-year business plan commits to sustained growth, high profitability and return on investment. The plan's commitments are:

- to reach annual global sales of 4.2 million units by the end of fiscal year 2007;

- to maintain an operating profit margin at the top level among global automakers; and

- to maintain a minimum 20% return on invested capital.

NISSAN Value-Up will expand the company's worldwide presence. Infiniti will be launched as a global tier-one luxury brand. In total, 28 all-new Nissan and Infiniti models will be launched in markets around the world, supporting a strategy of significant geographic expansion.

Other FY03 financial highlights:

Indebtedness

Nissan's net automotive debt stood at 13.6 billion yen (US $120 million, euro 103.7 million) at the end of fiscal year 2003 under new accounting standards.

Dividend

As previously announced, Nissan's board of directors will propose a full-year 19 yen per share dividend at Nissan's next annual general shareholders' meeting on

June 23, 2004.

Outlook:

Business risks include adverse movements in foreign exchange rates and rising commodity prices and interest rates. Opportunities lie in the accelerated implementation of all of Nissan's actions plans during the final year of NISSAN 180.

FY04 forecast:

Based on this outlook and assuming foreign exchange rates of 105 yen/dollar and 125 yen/euro, Nissan filed the following forecast for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2005, with the Tokyo Stock Exchange:

- consolidated net revenues of 8.176 trillion yen;

- operating profit of 860 billion yen;

- ordinary profit of 846 billion yen; and

- net profit of 510 billion yen.

Audi RS3

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/student2k-rs3.jpg

Nothing like a twin turbo 350 HP AWD Hatch that's the same size (same chassis) as a VW Golf.

yeeehaaaa.....

Would make the R32 obsolete:lol:

Originally posted by Larsony
Would make the R32 obsolete:lol:

It doesn't need an Audi to do that. It's already that way all on it's own. :D

DCX reassures Mitsubishi

Gentz says joint projects to go on
April 24, 2004



BY SARAH A. WEBSTER
FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER


DaimlerChrysler AG on Friday tried to quell concerns that its surprise decision not to financially back a bailout plan at Mitsubishi Motors Corp. would jeopardize the future of the ailing Japanese automaker and the numerous joint projects between the two companies.

The German-American automaker owns a 37-percent stake in the money-losing Mitsubishi and it was widely expected and reported that DaimlerChrysler would support Mitsubishi's turnaround plan by investing another $3.8 billion in the company, a move that would rise its stake to 50 percent.

However, DaimlerChrysler Chief Financial Officer Manfred Gentz expressed confidence in a conference call with analysts and journalists that Mitsubishi and its joint projects with DaimlerChrysler would survive without that support.

"We are confident the projects we have agreed with MMC can be executed," Gentz said.

That includes several projects between Mitsubishi and the Auburn Hills-based Chrysler Group, including an engine plant in Dundee that is expected to start production in 2005 and create 500 jobs by 2006. Hyundai Motor Co., in which DaimlerChrysler owns a 10-percent interest,also is a partner in that project.

DaimlerChrysler and Mitsubishi also are jointly developing the architecture for small cars that would be built at Mitsubishi's plant in Normal, Ill.

While Chrysler Group spokesman Jason Vines said a lot of issues are now "up in the air," he said the company has confidence in its decision.

"Obviously we feel like it's all going to work out," he said.

But during the call, Gentz repeatedly faced questions about whether DaimlerChrysler CEO Juergen Schrempp's global company was unraveling and whether the company would sell its stake in Japanese Mitsubishi and South Korean Hyundai.

In addition to the uncertainty facing Mitsubishi, there have been media reports that the company's relationship with Hyundai also is strained.

Gentz said DaimlerChrysler has not made any decision about changing its investment in either company. However, regarding Mitsubishi, he noted, "that doesn't mean we will hold them forever."

He also defended the company's global vision.

"We will continue with our strategy," he said. "We have to reconsider our Asian strategy because MMC was a part of that, but that doesn't mean the whole strategy was wrong. We will continue to go forward."

Mitsubishi, Gentz said, has created a sound business plan that will return it to good health, if it secures the capital infusion necessary. DaimlerChrysler's Andreas Renschler, who heads the Smart minicar division, had helped craft that plan and was expected to take the helm at Mitsubishi.

"MMC can become a healthy company, a profitable company in the long run, but the precondition of that is very high capital support in the beginning," Gentz said.

Ultimately, Gentz said, DaimlerChrysler concluded that it could not give adequate returns to its own shareholders if it provided that support.

Gentz suggested that capital from other sources, such as other Mitsubishi investors, might be available to the company, which is expected to post a net loss of $664 million for its fiscal year, which ended in March.

Mitsubishi shareholders, Gentz said, "indicated already that they would give further support."

Mitsubishi also might find assistance from the Japanese government.

The Japanese press has reported that Mitsubishi has been seeking more than $3 billion for its rehabilitation from the Development Bank of Japan, which has helped other troubled Japanese companies in the past. For example, the governmental agency helped with a much smaller $90-million bailout of Daiei Inc., a supermarket chain operator, just two years ago.

Mitsubishi might also turn to Industrial Revitalization Corp. of Japan, or IRCJ. That government-backed body was set up to help struggling companies and recently offered a $3.5-billion assistance package to a cosmetics and textiles company, Kanebo.

It's unclear how the Japanese public would react to a large government-backed bailout of Mitsubishi, because the Kanebo package was criticized. In response, the IRCJ a month ago set up an advisory committee to explore when it is appropriate to provide assistance.

DaimlerChrysler's investors were highly critical of speculation that it would bail out Mitsubishi, noting that the company has been struggling to revive the Chrysler Group in recent years and Mitsubishi has already drained the books.

Mitsubishi's poor performance can be blamed on declining U.S. sales -- they were down 26 percent in 2003 -- and losses from buyers with bad credit in North America. Those accumulated after the company embarked on a free-for-all "0-0-0" financing program strategy in which Mitsubishi offered customers a deal with no money down, zero-percent financing and no payments for a year. Many of those customers couldn't pay when the loans came due.

Mitsubishi has a special shareholder meeting scheduled for next Friday, in which it was prepared to finalize its turnaround plan. The company had said it would seek shareholders' approval to sell about 6 billion new shares, or four times its outstanding shares, to raise money for its plan.

However, in an unexpected announcement Thursday, DaimlerChrysler said it planned "to cease further financial support" of Mitsubishi -- raising the specter that Mitsubishi might collapse and harm numerous joint projects between it and DaimlerChrysler.

Mitsubishi said Friday it would still hold its shareholder meeting but that it would work with its partners on a new business plan that will be finalized within a month.

Also on Friday, rating agency Standard & Poor's slashed its long-term corporate credit rating on Mitsubishi Motors from B-minus to CCC-minus and put the company on CreditWatch "with negative implications."

At the same time, however, S&P concluded the move had no impact on DaimlerChrysler, concluding the developments were only "slightly negative."

"Had the company chosen to increase its involvement in MMC, however, the consequences might have been even more disadvantageous," the rating agency concluded.

http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/articles/i1013/101328_00mg.jpg

Way cool to me, this car would make a great toy for the occassional open air adventure and weekend romp. I might be looking for a nice use Mini Cabrio 4 or 5 years from now. Alpha1

The Esperante Coupe

http://www.panozauto.com/esperante/lo-res/coupe_threequarter.jpg
http://www.panozauto.com/esperante/lo-res/coupe_side.jpg
http://www.panozauto.com/esperante/lo-res/coupe_rear.jpg
http://www.panozauto.com/esperante/lo-res/coupe_rear_top.jpg
http://www.panozauto.com/esperante/lo-res/coupe_int.jpg

Hi-res pictures
http://www.panozauto.com/esperante/

This was posted on another forum


Here are some pics from the Pontiac infomercial that showed the new G6 coupe and convertible. Brian Nesbitt confirmed that the convertible is indeed a hardtop.


http://img4.photobucket.com/albums/v29/pharoah/cars/G6coupe.jpg
http://img4.photobucket.com/albums/v29/pharoah/cars/G6vert.jpg

Wow - definitly wasn't expecting a G6 convertible!
That car has the potential to be really competitive in the marketplace. When was the last time you could say that about a GM product?

Right when you think GM can do no right, they hit you with the new Vette, the CTS-V, the Cobalt and a few other good-to-great cars.

I'm in for a G6 convertible. The only reason why I don't own one now is because they are all soft tops and they only one that I can think of that isn't is the SC430. At $63K, that's out of my price range for a convertible.

hmmm doesnt sound like they are doing great but big companys like that are hard to bring down ... governments do their best to keep jobs for their peoples ... and mitsu has a lot of jobs for people ... of course their could be another buying car comp. but i dont know who ...

I don't think subaru will be ahead of the market if mitsu leaves either because we still need to beat @#$!ing citroen and puegot lol so we need more drivers like solberg ... a few years ago i would have said mcrea should stay lol that would've been bad for us now.

I like evo's and impreza theyre like ryu and ken, peanut butter and jelly you know??? if one didnt exist it wouldnt make the other interesting anymore:(

Does anyone think that maybe Subaru should buy Mitsu?

Originally posted by babyvoxfan
I mean they overlap as they are in the exact same market subject and they attract the same kind of buyer.

Hyundai has made reliable cars for the past 7 years, but their V6 engines are lacking in horsepower and DCX had to help them refine the global four-cylinder in order to maximize efficiency and power. Mitsubishi has a good engineering staff, and combining that with Hyundai's way of minimizing manufacturing costs, and they have a winner.

I said this was unlikely, but it is my suggestion, and I believe it is a sustainable one. It seems that you think I said Mitsu should buy Hyundai when I said Hyundai should buy Mitsubishi.

The Koreans, nationalistic like they are (trust me, I've dated one for 3 years- hey Stacy!) won't mind- I mean it's a Korean company taking control of a Japanese company, if anything the Japanese will be angry. But aside from VW, and the newly revitalized Isuzu (read www.isuzuperformance.com/isupage and scroll down to Isuzu returns to making cars), I don't know who else would be a better match for Mitsubishi.

Hey, thanks for clarifying it for me. Now I see what you meant. Although with all the investments going into the new Alabama factory and the new research facility near CA (or was it in NV) I doubt Hyundai has the fund to buy off Mitsu.

Originally posted by babyvoxfan
Does anyone think that maybe Subaru should buy Mitsu?


Even if FHI had anywhere near the amount of money to do so, which they don't, it would be monumentally stupid to do so.

Originally posted by babyvoxfan
Does anyone think that maybe Subaru should buy Mitsu?

That's unpossible. :lol:

FHI should look into Mitsubishi, probably buy some of it. Then we may get an STi/Evo variation that would blow away anything out there. I wouldn't then mind owning a "Mitsubaru", or a "Subabishi". If it happens, I hope Mitsubishi comes out of it slump and laughs in DaimlerChrysler's face. ;)

Originally posted by Halforc
Wow, Saab just has no soul anymore whatsoever. GM has definitely ruined their originality.

Sad but true. I've been buying and driving the classic 900s, late 80s to '93 but I'm done. After 20plus Saabs I bought my first Subaru, a FXT.

Has soul.

Imagine that, Merging FHI with MHI, does that mean I can buy a 21" flat panel STI monitor?

Originally posted by LinuxGuy
Imagine that, Merging FHI with MHI, does that mean I can buy a 21" flat panel STI monitor?

No, a 24".... :devil:

David McHugh writing for the AP:

VW Design Chief Wants to Add 'Sensuality'

WOLFSBURG, Germany April 25, 2004;

Volkswagen's new design chief Murat Guenak wants to add more curves and emotion to the automaker's famously functional German designs. But tweaking tradition can be a tricky matter.

In an interview with The Associated Press, Guenak explained the balance he has to strike in both updating and safeguarding a venerable automotive heritage -- a legacy some describe as clean and classic, others as verging on dull.

"We have a very strong design language already," Guenak said. "And we want to use this base to rebalance a little bit, by bringing a bit more feeling and sensuality to the product."

For a company that symbolizes solid German values, the 46-year-old Turkish immigrant represents change simply by not being a longtime Volkswagen insider. His predecessor, Hartmut Warkuss, retired at 63 after 36 years at VW.

Guenak, vice president for group design since the start of this year, faces a fiercely competitive mass auto market in which other carmakers are increasingly using provocative design to set their cars apart.

Renault's Megane features an abruptly chopped rear window. BMW went even further by bringing in American designer Chris Bangle to shake up its sleekly conservative designs. He added a controversial higher rear end on the luxury 7-series and slanted an eye-catching metal crease down the side of the Z4 roadster.

Don't expect such departures from Guenak, who strongly discouraged any expectation that Volkswagen will toss out its design history with future models such as its remade Passat, coming next year.

"We have to find the right balance where we keep all these base values of our brand, which are important and which are what makes Volkswagen," Guenak said in his office at Volkswagen's development center, part of its sprawling Wolfsburg, Germany, headquarters complex.

"And now we have to catch also the people who are a bit more trendy, a bit more lifestyle, more open to discover," he said. "What I want to do is find this new thing, without losing the other one."

Volkswagen turned to Guenak at a testing time, reflected in a 58 percent profit drop last year. Worse, sales of the redesigned Golf mainstay got off to a sluggish start, prompting VW to toss in free air conditioning -- a reversal for a company used to charging a premium over competing makes.

Like other top designers these days, Guenak has moved around. He worked for Ford, Daimler-Benz before its merger with Chrysler, France's Peugeot, then at DaimlerChrysler's Mercedes division.

His design credits range from the successful Peugeot 206 and 307 mass-market cars to Mercedes' SLR sports car and the superluxury Maybach at DaimlerChrysler.

Guenak arrived at VW in April 2003 as design head for the Volkswagen, Skoda and Bentley brands. He has since moved up to take responsibility for VW's remaining brands: SEAT, Audi, Lamborghini, and Bugatti.

He came too late to have a hand in the new Golf, but in time to make contributions to the new Passat and the Concept R.

New designs will follow two subtle approaches, he said.

"The first is how we sculpture the sheet metal to visualize the qualities of our cars at Volkswagen," he said. "The shaping of the cars was very clear, very straight, very architechtonical, very German if you like -- but this is not a good word."

"What we want to do now is, we want to go back a little bit in our roots of sculpturing the shape, the sheet metal, turning it," he said. Light plays on the car's curves as it moves "and you can bring a very strong sensual feeling by the shape of the surfaces," he said.

One place to look for ideas, he said, are the curvaceous cars from the company's storied past: the old Beetle, the Karmann Ghia sports car and the microbus of the 1960s and 1970s.

The second part of the plan is the front end. Guenak points to the new Golf's sporty GTI version, which has a V-shaped black mesh grill and slightly hooded headlights to give its "eyes" a racier look.

He suggested people who want to know where VW design is headed should take a look at the grille on the Concept R, the two-seat sports car unveiled as a concept vehicle at the Frankfurt Auto Show last fall. It has a deep "V" marked out with long curves that cut through the grille.

Guenak dismisses styling merely to surprise.

"My question is, 'Would you buy that car?'" he said. "Would you be seen in it?"

http://www.cars.ru:8100/catpics/vw/concept_r/6.jpg

Originally posted by Porter
Can a mod merge these threads?

Please...There where some good points in the other thread (mine included :p ) that don't need to be retyped here.

Originally posted by LinuxGuy
Imagine that, Merging FHI with MHI, does that mean I can buy a 21" flat panel STI monitor?

No with the merger, it wouldn't be a Flat panel, it would be a Boxer panel monitor.

Originally posted by mh_WRX
http://www.cars.ru:8100/catpics/vw/concept_r/6.jpg

http://news.bmwboard.com/news/images/2003/6series_0003.jpg

Anybody else think there's just a bit of resemblance in the headlights?

Want to see a real resemblance, check the rear of the Concept R and a Boxster.

http://www.cardesignnews.com/autoshows/2003/frankfurt/preview/vw-conceptr/images/vw-conceptr1854.jpg

http://speedycars.chinacars.com/wallpaper2/porsche/Porsche%20Boxster%201997%20-%20033.jpg

I say, YES, I WOULD like to be seen in that VW.
And yea, there definitly is a resembalance with the Boxster, but thats defintily not a bad car to resemble! Same thing with the 6-series - the nicestest of the new fangled BMWs.

LMAO yall r kidding of Subaru buying out mitsubishi its "unpossible".. how??? first they should save their own asses From GM buying the other 30% of them!!!:mad:

Originally posted by only1agam
LMAO yall r kidding of Subaru buying out mitsubishi its "unpossible".. how??? first they should save their own asses From GM buying the other 30% of them!!!:mad:

I see the "general of death" coming for subaru... if only they can escape the curse known as GM...

Anyone ELSE find the news that there will be an AWD version of the 0-60 in 5.3 (best) 300C *interesting* to say the least?

http://scoop.daimlerchrysler.com/pdf/product/30005specifications.pdf

Originally posted by CirrusWRX
I see the "general of death" coming for subaru... if only they can escape the curse known as GM...


Maybe Subaru & Mitsu *will* merge...as GM's newest "joint venture"...I mean, that would allow TWO MORE marques to hide the damned TrailBlazer in...how can GM pass that up??

Originally posted by Ghostrider600
Anyone ELSE find the news that there will be an AWD version of the 0-60 in 5.3 (best) 300C *interesting* to say the least?

http://scoop.daimlerchrysler.com/pdf/product/30005specifications.pdf

Would I be considered as "ELSE"? :D

Yep, viscous with 37F/67R... something like that ;)

That's very cool, but I don't see anything in there about a manual transmission :(.

Report: Mitsubishi seeks bail-out funds
Reuters / April 28, 2004


LONDON -- The Mitsubishi group is seeking Japanese and foreign private equity funds to help rescue ailing Mitsubishi Motors, the Financial Times reported on Wednesday.

The group plans to sell 100 billion yen's ($911.4 million) worth of preference shares issued by Mitsubishi Motors to corporate rehabilitation firms and is sealing the terms with Japanese private equity firm Phoenix Capital, the newspaper said, without citing sources.

On Friday DaimlerChrysler said it will not provide any new funds for its partner Mitsubishi Motors and said it may sell its stake in the automaker.

----------------------------------------
more:


No plan for Mitsubishi to seek government help
Reuters / April 28, 2004

TOKYO -- Mitsubishi Tokyo Financial Group (MTFG) said on Wednesday that the team of Mitsubishi group companies leading the restructuring plans for Mitsubishi Motors Corp. did not plan to ask for help from the state-backed corporate turnaround body.

Asked if the group would apply to use the Industrial Revitalization Corp. of Japan for Mitsubishi Motors, Nobuo Kuroyanagi, who will become MTFG president in June, told reporters: "We are not thinking about that for now."

Kuroyanagi, currently a board director at Japan's third-largest banking group, will succeed Shigemitsu Miki as MTFG president and as president of the group's core unit Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi in June.

Along with others in the Mitsubishi group, MTFG must quickly map out a restructuring plan for loss-making Mitsubishi Motors after DaimlerChrysler AG announced last week that it would no longer support the Japanese car firm.

-----------------------------------------

Mitsubishi's new chairman to speak publicly on Friday
Reuters / April 28, 2004


TOKYO -- Mitsubishi Motors Corp. said its next chairman, Yoichiro Okazaki, would hold a news conference on Friday following an extraordinary shareholders' meeting on the same day.

Okazaki, currently managing director at Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd., has been leading the troubled Japanese automaker's new revival team after DaimlerChrysler AG pulled out of a bail-out plan last week.

Okazaki heads a team of about 40, consisting mainly of top officials at Mitsubishi Motors, and some working-level staff from its three main shareholders in the Mitsubishi group, Mitsubishi Heavy, Mitsubishi Corp. and Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi.

After DaimlerChrysler abandoned plans to participate in a capital increase scheme for Mitsubishi Motors, the Mitsubishi group said it would support the automaker, aiming to finalize a new revival plan within a month.

The plan would look at all of the automaker's operations, including product development, manufacturing, overseas operations and financial policy, while reviewing its alliance with DaimlerChrysler, which still holds a 37 percent stake.

On Monday, Daimler veteran Rolf Eckrodt resigned as president and CEO of Mitsubishi Motors to make way for the new team. CFO Keiichiro Hashimoto will act as interim president until a permanent replacement is found.

DaimlerChrysler has said it would not be nominating a new head from its group, but will go ahead with plans to send Eckhard Cordes, who heads its commercial vehicles division, as a non-executive board member.

Originally posted by reks
That's very cool, but I don't see anything in there about a manual transmission :(.

Which car?

wow, check these out

New MB CLS AMG..

http://box.motorline.cc/slideshow/image.asp?id=1418&width=660&height=440&text=auto&quality=80
http://box.motorline.cc/slideshow/image.asp?id=1419&width=660&height=440&text=auto&quality=80
http://box.motorline.cc/slideshow/image.asp?id=1420&width=660&height=440&text=auto&quality=80
http://box.motorline.cc/slideshow/image.asp?id=1421&width=660&height=440&text=auto&quality=80
http://box.motorline.cc/slideshow/image.asp?id=1422&width=660&height=440&text=auto&quality=80
http://box.motorline.cc/slideshow/image.asp?id=1423&width=660&height=440&text=auto&quality=80

Originally posted by mh_WRX
Which car?

Think he's talking about the 300C. But it does have the AutoStick...

I can live with that.... :D

AMG CLS looks good and all, but what's up with the tiny window? Talk about being claustrophobic inside of there :(

http://box.motorline.cc/slideshow/image.asp?id=1419&width=660&height=440&text=auto&quality=80

It is a car good for making out in, since no one can see what you are doing in there.

I am king of making fun of all cars :devil:

ADDICT

^ Unless those rear seats are on the floor, I don't see how there would be adequate headroom back there...

I tihnk its not the headroom that might be the issue - more like the sliver of glass to see out of - thats one heck of a high waistline.

Anywyas, I kinda love - kinda don't.

Depends on how they make the headlights and the other small details look without the camo. In a way it looks real smooth and cool looking - in an evil mafia-car type of way (espesially since its black)
But then in a way it looks too aero/oval/bland looking.

One things for sure - you KNOW its gonna be fast.