Does anyone here know what Subaru is doing to de-tune the 2.5 turbo in the '05 Legacy to make it 250HP as opposed to the STi's 300HP?

I'd love to buy the STi, but I want to see what's up with the Legacy before I do.

I posted the same question in the General Forum. Any thoughts, comments are appreciated.

I wouldnt be surprized if it had the same turbo but with less boost, and smaller intercooler. I heard this car is only going to be offered with a VC 5 speed at first.

That sounds like a probable scenario. What is a VC 5 speed? Auto?

Originally posted by CT_STi
Does anyone here know what Subaru is doing to de-tune the 2.5 turbo in the '05 Legacy to make it 250HP as opposed to the STi's 300HP?

I'd love to buy the STi, but I want to see what's up with the Legacy before I do.

I posted the same question in the General Forum. Any thoughts, comments are appreciated.


Judging by the performance stats, some are suggesting that it isn't detuned all that much.

I suspect Subaru just wants the STI to be officially more powerful.....I do note though that the hood scoop is smaller. I bet heat soak is more of a problem for the legacy.

Some have suggested it'll be very similar to the Forester XT, except for different cams and a less conservative rating. Probably a different boost profile too.

This thread is a waste of effort at this point in time given that:

SOA hasn't announced any engine/transmission combinations for the re-designed Legacy.

So far, only RHD markets (Aus/NZ, UK, South Africa) have a turbo engine option (2.0L GT - only trans is 5EAT).

The Continental Europe market, the one which most closely resembles the North American market, does not get a turbo Legacy. Western Europe does, however, get the 245PS Legacy 3.0R.

We ARE getting a 2.5L 250 HP turbo engine. At least thats what the master mechanic at my subaru dealer said when he went to the class about the new 2.5L's
VC=viscious cuppled 5 speed manual.
same as the WRX and Forester's
It will be offered with a 5 or 6 speed auto also..

It simply wouldn't do to have the Legacy run too closely with the STi...

Why not? They are marketed to 2 totally different audiences.

You will need to think of the turbo legacy selling to like your A6 type of crowd, a little more power, a little more refinement.

Where as the STi was directly aimed at the track hos

So, getting back to the original question regarding upgrading that 2.5 Turbo (250HP) config. to hit a higher output, what do you guys think would be a good way to go? If the Legacy ends up running the same turbo as the STi but just pushes less boost, what would need to be done to increase the boost and maintain the integrity of the rest of the engine internals?\

When I think of this upcoming Legacy, I think of the last generation Audi S4. Could be a very cool car.

Until the new turbo Legacy is in someone's hands it is all speculation. However if we take a look at what Porter did to the Forester XTreme that Gwinnet built it might give a clue.

Apparently just doing the intake and a cat-back made the thing into a torque monster that was scary-quick in city driving. Changing to a full turbo-back dropped the low/mid torque to more manageable levels and opened up the upper end.

However, without opening the engine and changing the cam it'll never be exactly like a WRX STi.

--
Bill

If you think about the last S4 you have to think about the volvo s60r.
All the 2.5L engines are going to be the same. The internals to the STi and the forester (LONG BLOCKS) are identical. Its like taking Chasis sharing to the next level. Plus its cheeper and easier to house parts at service. Another thing is subaru itself will save a ton of money if everything is the same. All they are doing is using the STi and its engine as a test bed for whats to come.
Nick

The new Legacy should be able to be modded to achieve 300hp easily. It still won't have DCCD and the STi turbo, but don't forget economies of scale, a necessity for a small manufacturer such as Subaru. The STi, Forester and Legacy get the same motor, because it's cheaper that way...by a LOT. Nissan is doing the same thing, by putting the 3.5L-6 in as many cars as they can. It just makes sense.

Personally, I'd like to see the Legacy get some sort of chip that makes it mod-proof. It will come in at about the same weight as the WRX, thanks to extensive use of aluminum, but will have more horsepower and torque. It will be an exceptional drivers' car as it stands, and plenty fast enough in stock trim.

Mind you, that won't happen, and people will buy it to tune it. To each their own. I'm just looking forward to my silver wagon...

Kevin

I'm just looking forward to my silver wagon...

ill take a black sadan ..
:devil:
Nick

Originally posted by 3BadHabbits
I wouldnt be surprized if it had the same turbo but with less boost, and smaller intercooler. I heard this car is only going to be offered with a VC 5 speed at first.

no no no no no.....its got a vf38, i would bet the car will weigh less then the sti. the goal for this body design is to reduce weight, hence titanium turbo and cf all around.

and i bet it will have a 6 speed./

LEGACY representin....w00t w00t

i dont understand the anti-mod chip:confused:

Originally posted by biggreen96
i dont understand the anti-mod chip:confused:

Oh, that was just my wishful thinking. It won't happen.

Kevin

Originally posted by 3BadHabbits
All the 2.5L engines are going to be the same. The internals to the STi and the forester (LONG BLOCKS) are identical. AFAIK they're not the same now, so what do you know to make us think they will be the same in the future? At a minimum the sti has different cams than the XT, right?

Paul

How about this get merged with his other post that is still in General?

I agree with the people that both say we can only speculate because we haven't fully seen it and it should also be in general because this isn't really news or a rumor.

But based on observations and speculation I should exert my 5 cents. :d

Based on speculation and observations, shouldn't be hard at all. The main differences is the IC, perhaps turbo (though both MAY share the VF39), intake manifold and plumbing, exhaust, and last but not least, the ECU tuning being the largest part. Some people think that because the IC duct on the Leg is smaller it's less efficient, I'm sorry to say but you are mistaken. The reason it's smaller is because the profile is more efficient not requiring it to have such a large scoop.

I'd imagine changing the hoses to silicone with cast end tanks or maybe just a bar&plate side-flow IC, and a good ECU retune will garner close to 300hp, change in some exhaust components may be needed to reach the 300hp realm, but not sure how much. If it's around 250, exhaust is more likely to need modification, if real numbers are closer to 280, not likely needed for the 20hp gain. Either way, shouldn't take much to hit 300bhp.

Just pray for the MT. Hopefully we don't get stuck w/ the manumatic as the only option.

I must say that this board is excellent. Thanks for all of the thoughts and input. I really look forward to joining the family of enthusiastic Subaru owners. I'm going to look for the Forester XTreme that Gwinnet built for some more information. Thanks again for the input.

Cheers.