Since my Impreza is off the road I'm working on a Mazda 323GTX. It has a 1.8l motor and came with an IHI VJ20 turbo. Apparently I can hybrid this with a "Liberty RS" turbo turbocharger called a VF10.

I'm trying to figure out which turbo the legacy turbo came with. Some people say it's a VF8 and some a VF10. I saw a turbo and it contradicted both articles on the intraweb. It said Turbo Spec VF 119006 which seems to me like it's actually called a VF11! Does anyone have info to clear this up?

-Michael

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewforum.php?f=2

Come check out the turbo forums of Legacy Central. It was the VF-11 on USDM Legacy Turbos. The Liberty RS' got a 2.0l engine and are a totally different beast than out 2.2l USDM ones...

If you have any mazda questions go over too...

http://www.mazda323performance.com


2.2L legacy block = the cool!

The Libert RS got the VF12 . The Legacy turbo got both the VF10 and VF11. The only difference as far as I know between the VF10 and the VF11 is the compressor fan in the 11 is a tad bit bigger. The theory I heard is that the 4EAT got the 10 and the 5MT got the 11. I have a VF11 on my 5MT.

IIRC the VF8 was on the EA82T.

Originally posted by totoherbs
If you have any mazda questions go over too...

http://www.mazda323performance.com


2.2L legacy block = the cool!

I do not have any Mazda performance questions. As you can see it's a legacy turbo question. Most of the Mazda guys are overseas and can't answer questions about a USDM Legacy Turbo.

I'd love to fit the VF24 off my STi on the GTX but it's worth too much and I'll need it when I put the STi motor back together. A garrett GT is way too expensive so this leaves me with only the option of hybriding the stock turbo.

I wonder if anyone knows the upper horsepower limit of the VF11. I'm already making about 230-240 off the stocker and if the compressor housing is larger I hope to hit 300 with the VF11. Any ideas if I'm smoking crack or not?

-Michael

:banana: YEAH TOTO thanks for giving us props!

So I did the hybrid with the VF11 and it's no larger than the VJ20 turbo that came stock. In other words it will not make more than about 240bhp.

Only option is a turbo from some overseas model.

-Michael

sooo .. seems that i am one of the very very few people in north america with a vf 10 ..


find me a td05 and ill swap ya

I am sorry I did not come back to this thread sooner. I have been PMing soundsgood about this because he is doing the exact same Mazda conversion/hybrid turbo. Or at least he was going to until I told him the vf-10 and vf-11 do not have better compressors, as you unfortunately found out on your own.

Furthermore,
the only difference between the VF-10 and the Vf-11 is on the exhaust turbine. The compressors are identical. The exhaust turbine is identical, but the nukmber of blades is different. The VF-10 has 9 blades and the VF-11 has 10 blades. That is the only difference.

And Jaxx,
Every automatic Legacy Turbo in America has a VF-10. And a bunch of Australian Liberties and JDM Legacy RS autos got the Vf-10 as well. My new EJ20G engine has a VF-10. But me thinks you may have just been being sarcastic?;)

Originally posted by Matt Monson
And Jaxx,
Every automatic Legacy Turbo in America has a VF-10. And a bunch of Australian Liberties and JDM Legacy RS autos got the Vf-10 as well. My new EJ20G engine has a VF-10. But me thinks you may have just been being sarcastic?;)

umm, are you sure the RBH5 is the same as a vf-10? my motor came out of a 92 turbo legacy - auto, and well it says RBH5

RBH5 is just the series.

According to the mazda boards the only other hybrid up from that to be made is with a VF8 which is claimed to be much much larger on the compressor side.

-Michael

Originally posted by d00f
I'd love to fit the VF24 off my STi on the GTX but it's worth too much and I'll need it when I put the STi motor back together. A garrett GT is way too expensive so this leaves me with only the option of hybriding the stock turbo.

Whats price range your thinking... or do you mean you don't want to spend any amount. Because I found a place that seems to be a good price for turbos...

VF10 is Automatic Legacy US VF11 is manual Legacy US
VF12 is AUSTRALIAN Liberty RS
VF8 Is also Liberty RS...but it was on 1991 motors and is more powerful then the 10 and 11, and basically the same as a 12 or a td04...

Originally posted by Structure828

VF8 Is also Liberty RS...but it was on 1991 motors and is more powerful then the 10 and 11, and basically the same as a 12 or a td04...

Not true. To further the information I posted above. The VF-8 and VF12 also use the RHB5 compressor housing, like the 10 and 11, but they have a different exhaust housing. The VF-10 and VF-11 use the P15 housing. The VF-8 uses the P18 (same exhaust housing as a VF-24, VF-28, and VF-29). The VF-12 use the P20 (same housing as a VF-22 or VF-23) and is way more powerful than a TD04. Many a WRX owner has replaced his TD04 with a VF-12 because it is almost as powerful as a TD05. The VF-12 is the highest CFM of the old roller bearing IHI turbos used on Subaru Legacies...

hi guys

i have a gtx motor in my 323 wagon and i have used a vf10 a vf8 and a hks gt2535, i have now got a vf30 on it the hks item was too laggy it kicked in at 3,800 rpm

anyway...ill clear this up , ive fitted all these

i dont know about a vf11 or vf12 i only have jap spec cars in NZ,

the vf8 actually has a P20 housing not a P18 ive never seen a P18 on older rhb52 turbo's

the vf10 has a P15 housing...

the vf10 has the same exaust wheel size as the vj20 but the vf10 compressor side is alot larger , its exactly the same as a t25g turbo...it gives u a noticable differnce and pull all the way to redline unlike stock,

the vf8 is identical in sizes to a vf24 almost...

its got a 46mm comp wheel , u can hybrid this to the stock gtx p15 housing but u MUST fit the vf8 flap on the wastegate and port it massive like a stock vf8 one , the vf10 almsot requires the same u can get away with just orting it,

the housing must be machined for the larger vf8 exaust wheel , i did this exact hybrid last week on a mates car, u also have to weld a snouth on the fron of the cover fo intake pipe..

do u guys have pics of a vf12? i want to see what it looks like, to me it sounds like a vf11 is actually like a vf10 and a vf12 is like a vf8...

the vf8 can get 300hp nmax and the vf10 around 250. a hybrid vf8 on a p15 will get less like 270-280max

the vf30 goes very nice on my car i fitted the whole turbo with flanges weled to manifold and a new 3 inch dump pipe..

the oil feed etc all bolts on easy u have to fit new skinnier water lines thats all, hope this helps...

also - the vf30 has a p18 housing but it kicks in the same as the vf8 with a p20 , i just got a p20 housing off a vf22 i was gonna fit it to my vf30 what u guys reckon ? i still want it to kick in hard

gtxwgn,
I have heard it both ways from people regarding the VF-8's. Maybe they made two versions and the AUS market got it with a P20 housing and the JDM market got it with the P18. I don't really know for sure.

As far as your question about the VF-10 and VF-11? They are identical except the VF-11 has one extra compressor blade. That's the only difference. I believe the USDM market was the only place Subaru ever used it while AUS and JDM models got the VF-8's or VF-12's on their 5 spd cars.

Do you have the casting #'s off the exhaust housing of your VF-8? I would like to try and cross reference it with one here in the states that I can get numbers off of...

Originally posted by legacy92ej22t
IIRC the VF8 was on the EA82T.

Nope. VF7 on those.

Matt- I'm confused. In one of your earlier post you say that the only difference between the VF10 and 11 is that the exhaust turbine on the 11 has an extra blade, now on a later post you say that it's the compressor that has the extra blade. I'm sure one or the other was a typo but which one's true? I always thought the difference was in the compressor personally.

Oh and I always thought the VF10 was on the 4eat Legacy turbos and the VF11 was on the 5mt's but over on Legacy Central we found that some guys are claiming VF11's on their 4eat's. :confused: I don't know which is which now. Is there any possibility that certain years had the different turbo's and other years had the same?

Originally posted by WJM
Nope. VF7 on those.


Ah-ha, thanks. I guess I got mixed up on my numbers. There's just so many VF's to contemplate.

Originally posted by legacy92ej22t
Matt- I'm confused. In one of your earlier post you say that the only difference between the VF10 and 11 is that the exhaust turbine on the 11 has an extra blade, now on a later post you say that it's the compressor that has the extra blade. I'm sure one or the other was a typo but which one's true? I always thought the difference was in the compressor personally.

Oh and I always thought the VF10 was on the 4eat Legacy turbos and the VF11 was on the 5mt's but over on Legacy Central we found that some guys are claiming VF11's on their 4eat's. :confused: I don't know which is which now. Is there any possibility that certain years had the different turbo's and other years had the same?


turbine housing.. vf-10 has 9, vf-11 has 10
remember that you are talking about 3 jdm (RS,gt,wagon-mt/at) 3 AUS models and 2 american models each over 3-5 years there is going to be variance

Originally posted by Jaxx
remember that you are talking about 3 jdm (RS,gt,wagon-mt/at) 3 AUS models and 2 american models each over 3-5 years there is going to be variance


I'm only talking about the USDM 91-94 Legacy Turbo's that had the VF10 and 11's though. ;)

Hi, Ron.


Originally posted by d00f
I do not have any Mazda performance questions. As you can see it's a legacy turbo question. Most of the Mazda guys are overseas and can't answer questions about a USDM Legacy Turbo.

I'd love to fit the VF24 off my STi on the GTX but it's worth too much and I'll need it when I put the STi motor back together. A garrett GT is way too expensive so this leaves me with only the option of hybriding the stock turbo.

I wonder if anyone knows the upper horsepower limit of the VF11. I'm already making about 230-240 off the stocker and if the compressor housing is larger I hope to hit 300 with the VF11. Any ideas if I'm smoking crack or not?

-Michael

Actually most of us are in the states...


You sould have listed to Ron.
You'd have had your answer without having to try and make a hybrid.
http://www.mazda323performance.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2675&highlight=vf11

here's a tip.
the VJ20 is about the same size as a VJ11....
use the compressor upgrade that the MX6/Probe guys use, the T-bird Ishi-Warner comp and wheel....

and there's a couple others also
search the mazda site...

Man im so confused as to what ihi turbo uses what.... im just giving up on all of them and telling people to run a port and polished vf22 or a GT/T. :lol: Bigger is better right?

Jaxx,
Thanks for clarifying my brain fart...

Ok guys maybe you can help me, i have a uk spec ej20 legacy estate with std watercharged intercooler (1995) i cm havu#ing problems with my dual boost, on high it wont pull more than 12psi i guess = 290bhp is it because the turno is maxed out? and which turbo would i have, it has been sugested a vf8? cheers

I hate my VF10... Are you sure I thought the vf10 was larger than the vf11

The Libert RS got the VF12 . The Legacy turbo got both the VF10 and VF11. The only difference as far as I know between the VF10 and the VF11 is the compressor fan in the 11 is a tad bit bigger. The theory I heard is that the 4EAT got the 10 and the 5MT got the 11. I have a VF11 on my 5MT.

IIRC the VF8 was on the EA82T.

people please quit with the requestioning of the guys, the auto legacy's got the 11, manual got the 10, i have an auto and a manual so i know, my auto has a 11, manual a 10, there is NO DIFFERENCE IN THE TURBO"S OTHER THEN THE NUMBER OF BLADES

Obviously you don't know, as a VF10 is a different turbo from a VF11. The VF11 is one of a kind. It will only fit a US Legacy Turbo stock. No other subaru turbo will fit stock, so a VF10 cannot fit stock. I think you need to go look again. If you do have a VF10 then your car with the VF10 was modified before you bought it. And if you say otherwise, you're lieing through your teeth.

Oh, and since the number of blades is different, which blades are different? I think you've never seen a VF10 and a VF11 to make a comment like that.

I'm sure someone is going to be mad at me for railing you, but you seem so confident in your information.

BTW, there's an assload of incorrect info in this thread.

i'm suscribing to this one. i want the real info when it does come to light.

Here's the real info

VF8 - All manual JDM BC Legacy RS, RS-R, RS-RA
VF10 - All Legacy GT/S2/STi, automatic Legacy/Liberty RS
VF11 - All USDM Legacy Turbo
VF12 - All manual Liberty RS, manual Legacy UK Turbo

Automatic Legacy UK Turbo are still a mystery to me, I dont even know if they exist.

The info I posted before, that is quoted up top of this page, is wrong. I was miss informed and have since found (through a rediculous amount of discussions on this very subject) that what THAWA has posted above is the correct info.

Obviously you don't know, as a VF10 is a different turbo from a VF11. The VF11 is one of a kind. It will only fit a US Legacy Turbo stock. No other subaru turbo will fit stock, so a VF10 cannot fit stock. I think you need to go look again. If you do have a VF10 then your car with the VF10 was modified before you bought it. And if you say otherwise, you're lieing through your teeth.

Oh, and since the number of blades is different, which blades are different? I think you've never seen a VF10 and a VF11 to make a comment like that.

I'm sure someone is going to be mad at me for railing you, but you seem so confident in your information.

BTW, there's an assload of incorrect info in this thread.

i really hope your not directing that towards me... ive worked on all subarus my who life, worked with independant subaru only shops, and in a subaru ONLY wrecking yard, EVERY 5sp TURBO LEGACY came in with a VF10, EVERY AUTOMATIC TURBO LEGACY came with a vf11

Whoa now, my 1992 Legacy SS (turbo) 5 speed had a VF11.....but now has a 16G. :devil:

My friend has two Legacy SS's with Automatics, one a '91 and one a '93....both have VF11's and I know that for a fact because I've worked on both cars.

My other buddy Phil has a '94 SS 5-speed, had a VF11 (now 16G).

My other buddy......See what I'm getting at?

One thing is that most of the 1st gen Legacy turbo guys are members over at bbs.legacycentral.org (including THAWA) and have had this discussion. Out of probably 40-50 people with these cars (US members) over there, all of them have had the VF11 come stock on the EJ22T.

i really hope your not directing that towards me... ive worked on all subarus my who life, worked with independant subaru only shops, and in a subaru ONLY wrecking yard, EVERY 5sp TURBO LEGACY came in with a VF10, EVERY AUTOMATIC TURBO LEGACY came with a vf11

It was to you. I don't care what you have worked on, US turbos only came with VF11's. As I said before, you're more than welcome to say which blades are different, and while you're at it, go ahead and put the part number for a VF10 into the US system and try to buy one. It should come up with a valid price and should show the availability right? Since it wont you shouldn't be disappointed when it doesn't. To use a VF10 on a stock US Legacy Turbo you need to modify the compressor inlet, the compressor outlet, the coolant return, and the PCV system. Subaru didn't do this to half the cars they sold here.

So anyway, prove me wrong and I'll take it all back, but I can tell you a VF11 and a VF10 are setup differently.

THAWA, thanks for the info. I went ahead and double checked my two USDM EJ22T engines last night and the turbochargers are both VF11.

For the record, one engine is from a 1991 Sport sedan and the other is from a 1993 wagon, both with Automatics.

BTW, i like your location, ditto on ghetto garage. lol

there is NO DIFFERENCE IN THE TURBO"S OTHER THEN THE NUMBER OF BLADES

And THAT right there makes ALL the difference in the world.

VF11's ONLY for the USDM EJ22T Legacys.

nasioc is corrupt, thanks for clearin it up THAWA

It wasn't just me, we had a discussion about this on lco.

+1 for THAWA

my ej20G auto came with a vf-10 :)

VF-8 on mt liberties and VF-10 on at liberties, im getting an EJ20G soon so how dissapointed should i be when i find out it has a VF-10???

VF12 on manual Liberty RS's
VF8 on manual JDM Legacy RS/R/RA only

Yep, VF12 was on the Australian delivered Liberties.
The JDM and NZ Legacy's cars in manual got the VF8 and in Auto got the VF10
The VF10 is similar in size to a TD04 so pretty small, the VF8 and 12 are similar in size but the VF12 seems to flow a little more (possbily a larger exhaust a/r)
Natoe, the best upgrade for the EJ20G that bolts on is the TD05 16g from the early WRX if you can find one.

ah my bad.. a TD05 would be nice.

sorry to hijack, but are there any turbos that just bolt right up to a USDM legacy turbo?

Jesus Christ, this again. I won't even get involved. And for the record, the real Ghetto Garage is my place and I have "licensed" it to Thawa. That reminds me, I never sent you those stickers...

You know you love these threads with argueing about old techincal information. :D

A little off topic, but maybe we should compare pics of Ghetto Garages. ;)

Who's first?

I don't have any pictures of my place other than before I moved all my stuff in there. Currently I have 4 Subarus and a 911 along with 6 spare longblocks, 3 spare trannies and a bunch of stuff from 2 old skool leggy part out sitting around. I think I have 5 or six spare downpipes, 4 crossmembers, etc. etc. It's basically a 2.5 car garage and the Porsche barely fits in there.

All I know is that I coined the term "ghetto garage" on 10/26/2004 and it ended up in Legacyej22t's signature on legacy central. That's what we've called my place ever since. It originated from the fact that I only have the most basic of tools and get creative when I am doing something that requires a Subaru "special tool". I started talking about "Ghetto Garage special tool #12" , etc. etc. I don't really care if anyone else uses the same term and was just being a pill. A quick google search yesterday revealed Civic and DSM owners also calling their places ghetto garages. There is even a Factory 5 Cobra kit car builder who uses the name. He's the bastard that snatched www.ghettogarage.net before I could get my hands on it. But I am the only one with customer cars running around sporting "tuned in teh Ghetto Garage" window stickers... :p Ok. enough babbling. I've got nothing to proove here... :cool:

Yep, the quote is "ghetto garage is my world..." to be exact and it's still in my sig on LCO too! :D

I didn't know the name had so much history. We call ours a ghetto garage because simply, it's a garage in the ghetto. :lol:

Didn't Matt used to give out GG points? What happened to that?

I still do every once and a while. I've just been so busy with manager training at work, my wifes pregnancy and now the new baby (2 week old baby girl!) that I have been slow to deal them out lately. ;)

Vikash earned a few hundred GG points and a couple stickers with his Igloo cooler powered AWIC setup (big Igloo cooler like at football games in his back seat with water lines running out the passengerside door to the heat exchanger!) at the Shootout this last year. It was absolutely ghetto fabulous! :lol:

ah GG points are for ghetto-rig jobs eh? too bad im not using the mountain dew intake anymore. oh then there are my power steering hose "endlink" bushings.. hmm it happens.

Is that where you take a rod end, and drill a hole through the bottom of it and make it into a banjo bolt?

lol nah, jetta PS hose=bushings, so i could use a GC rear sway bar on my impreza with BC trailing arms and endlinks..

Is that where you take a rod end, and drill a hole through the bottom of it and make it into a banjo bolt?

that sounds cool though

I think my best ghettorific tool has to be the use of concrete expansion bolts as a special tool to remove stubborn wrist pins from Ej series blocks. Though I recently discovered that I will need to get some more sizes. For some reason a 1990 Ej22E has a larger hole in the piston than an Ej20G, Ej22T, or Ej25 has... :confused:

Also, back to the original topic... Since I have just recently taken possession of my first ever 5spd SS I can confirm the assertions of others. My '91 SS 5spd Ej22T does in fact have a VF-11 turbo on it... ;)

I use an old alignment/punch tool dealie that tapers to a point for wrist pins. Just hammer it in hella hard, put a big vice grips on the end of the tool, and hammer on the vice grip. An expansion bolt sounds better though.

My best though is probably using an old 4eat driveshaft on the end of a breaker bar to get big nuts/bolts like axle nuts and crank bolts. There's no way that thing is going to break! The bar or socket maybe.

BTW, ghettogarage.org, myghettogarage.com, myghettogarage.net, ghettogaragenet.com, and many other domain names are still available if you want to purchase. I can provide hosting if need be.

BTW, ghettogarage.org, myghettogarage.com, myghettogarage.net, ghettogaragenet.com, and many other domain names are still available if you want to purchase. I can provide hosting if need be.

hmmm. I am a total rube when it comes to such things. Can you shoot me a PM with some details about how to purchase one of them? I would love to get my own site...

Hi all , I know this is an old thred but I keep seeing links to it when dredging up info on these old IHI RHB5 series turbos .

From all the data I've seen IHI made RHB5 turbos with two distinct turbine sizes (well possibly trim/blade count) and two distinct major diameter compressor wheel families .

I come from the old EA82T world and std Sube fitted them with a VF2/3/4/5/6/7 and the only major variation in these AFAIK was the R15 vs R12 turbine housing in some european countries , ADM/USDM are R12 .

Now the turbine in the lil EA82T turbo is the smaller trim one and 9 bladed , I believe its used in Sube spec VF10s and VF11s though again AFAIK those units have an R15 sized turbine housing naturally flanged to suit EJ up and down pipes .

Compressors , these from what I can tell come in 52 or 56mm major (backface) diameter and in a variety of trim sizes .
The little EA82T turbo has the 52mm variety and I'm reasonably sure the VF11s does as well but its cartridge number is different from all the EA82 turbos so I suspect the VF11 may have a slightly larger trim compressor wheel .

What is interesting is that the VF10's appear to have a 56mm dia compressor but not in a very big trim so from the outside the VF10 and VF11 may not look very different . Don't quote me but I think the VF10 comp wheel is ~ 39.5mm inducer , not sure what VF11s are as I don't think there are many/any to measure here in Australia .

Now to the bigger guns , VF8 and VF12 .
Yes AFAIK all Aus spec early Liberty RSs had the largest RHB5 here which is the VF12 . These are very similar to a VF8 as in both have the large trim 10 bladed turbine and 56mm OD compressors in reasonably large trim .
Most people write that the VF12s compressor is a slightly larger trim than the VF8 but there's omly 1-2mm difference in inducer size .
Another thing common to the VF8 and VF12 is the 20R turbine housing , I don't think I've ever seen specs for an R20 turbine housing that didn't use the larger size/trim turbine .
I've also never seen mention that the larger size/trim turbine was used in R12 or R15 turbine housings so IMO if it has an R12 or R15 its using the smaller trim turbine , if its an R20 or larger it'll have the larger turbine .

More soon , cheers A .

Next week someone is sending me a VF10 and a VF8 so I'll be able to measure everything up and know what the story is .

I'm doubtful that a VF8 would be useful on an EA82T with it's std computer and injectors but I can probably make some use of the VF10 seeing that it has the same turbine as my std hair dryer and the same sized turbine housing as the larger of the two EA82T sizes - R15 .

I'm about to measure a VF2 comp cover to see what the std compressor inducer size is (guesses ~ 37.5 or 39.5) so I know how it compares to the VF10s ~ 39.5mm .
I think if I go carefully with boost pressure I can find ways to have a bit more mid range and extend the useful rev range up a little , compared to a worn out 188,000 mile old std donk !

If it still proves a little exhaust restrictive it wouldn't be impossible to fit the FV10's comp wheel and housing to the VF8 for lower pressure exhaust throughput .

Cheers A .

Just for the record can someone who truly knows how to use a very near caliper please measure up a VF11s compressor inducer ie the hole through the back of the comp cover so we can know for sure what its inducer size REALLY is .

Cheers and thanks , Adrian in Australia .