I wanna get going on an engine soon, but I can't decide if i want the more difficult to find ej22t or just go ej20 for abundance. For ej22t, i would have to take the engine and harness and ecu from a legacy turbo, right? what model year? Does anyone make aftermarket harnesses or conversion gear? Is it a starry eyed dream to want to fake a 22B? Are the ej20's more reliable in general?
Help a brother out

thanks,
Dylan
Truckee, Ca

we need to stop speaking in code on NASIOC

ive worked at quite a few subaru related jobs and consider myself an enthusiast but i have no idea what the hell a gm6 is...can you elaborate?

your car wont be a 22B or anything close with an EJ22T, it doesnt employ the same engine block that an early 90s legacy turbo did, regardless of what people tell you on this website.

EDIT: forgot to answer the question...EJ20 is a decent choice because of how many of these roam the earth now, but the EJ22T is definitley the better engine.

Originally posted by Dennis ex24
we need to stop speaking in code on NASIOC

ive worked at quite a few subaru related jobs and consider myself an enthusiast but i have no idea what the hell a gm6 is...can you elaborate?

Your kidding right? GM6 is the chassis designation for the 2-door 2.5RS, similar to the GC8 designation of the 2.0 turbo Impreza's. The GM2 IIRC is a 2-door, 1.8L Impreza.


:D

get an ej22T they are cheap. but replace all of the plastic on it. like the PCV sytem, and intake. replace all of it with new factory stuff.

it all falls appart after 100k

touching a part = cumbling plastic

Originally posted by Dennis ex24
we need to stop speaking in code on NASIOC

ive worked at quite a few subaru related jobs and consider myself an enthusiast but i have no idea what the hell a gm6 is...can you elaborate?

your car wont be a 22B or anything close with an EJ22T, it doesnt employ the same engine block that an early 90s legacy turbo did, regardless of what people tell you on this website.



I won't challenge your expertise on Subarus, even though you didn't know the chassis code he was refering to, but I would love to see some empirical evidence to back up this statement about the USDM EJ22 Turbo block and the 22B...

but I would love to see some empirical evidence to back up this statement about the USDM EJ22 Turbo block and the 22B...

Me too.:huh:

-Brian

the empirical evidence is right across the parking lot where i work...theres a 22B, an EJ22T for comparison as well as engineers and techs that worked here when the car and engine was built.

and sorry for not knowing the chassis code for a 2dr RS...but the rest of the car driving world would probably refer to it as a 2dr RS.

Is it just the 22b engine, or the whole car? If it is the whole car, then I'l like to head up there to take a look sometime!!

Originally posted by Dennis ex24
the empirical evidence is right across the parking lot where i work...theres a 22B, an EJ22T for comparison as well as engineers and techs that worked here when the car and engine was built.

and sorry for not knowing the chassis code for a 2dr RS...but the rest of the car driving world would probably refer to it as a 2dr RS.
Hey,
My previous remarks were not meant to be insulting, so no need to get defensive. If you re-read my post I hope you will see that I was saying that I don't discount your level of technical knowledge because of that chassis code thing. You seem to have taken it to mean the contrary. People around here who know me know that I don't give a damn who is right or wrong, I just want to know the right answer.

And your answer is still not an answer. Telling me that engine and engineers are right across the street does nothing to prove or disprove whether the 22B and the USDM Turbo Legacy share the same block or not. When I talk about empirical evidence, I want to see something from Subaru, or HyperRev or some other reputable source that I can see with my own eyes. Mentioning the guys across the street doesn't get me any closer to the truth. It holds as much credibility with me as the guys here who claim the blocks are the same but have no evidence themselves. Again, re-read my comments...I never claimed to believe the guys who say the blocks are the same, I merely asked you to back up what you said. Don't take it all so personally and engage in the quest for knowledge and don't assume that I am trying to put you down...

:)

Hmmm, no response.

the 22B and the ej22t are 2 different sets of internals. both, as all ej series engines, are variations from the ej18.

and my dense friend, the knowledge he dropped was that across teh street was SOA, Subaru of America. which u should have gathered by the reference to the only legal 22B in the USA.

we tried to help.

Originally posted by Boxologist
the 22B and the ej22t are 2 different sets of internals. both, as all ej series engines, are variations from the ej18.

and my dense friend, the knowledge he dropped was that across teh street was SOA, Subaru of America. which u should have gathered by the reference to the only legal 22B in the USA.

we tried to help.

For starters, no need to come in here and start calling names like we are in the shcool yard. Furthermore, I knew exactly what he was talking about with his reference to SOA. Lastly, I said they were the same block, not SHORT block. They are two different things my dense condescending freind. And lastly, your lame post still hasn't added any information to the topic that is empirical. Everything I have ever seen backs up your comments, but as mentioned above, I would love to see some sort of technical document to verify this.

You could be some self important 16 year sitting behind a screen talking BS on a bulliten board for all we know (not that you are, and I am sure that I am about to get your resume read to me). So, like your freind , you have still not dropped any real knowledge on the subject. If you guys don't have anything to verify it, then just say so, there's no shame in that...

I would have to agree with Matt that this childish namecalling really doesn't add to the discussion. Honestly, I come out of this post yet again wondering why I took the minute out of my time to read it.

I have been trying to research the engine that's in my car for some time now, and have talked to one owner of a 22b overseas who was interested in the usdm turbo legacy block because his own 22b block did not come with oil squirters!!

I'm amazed that subaru would not have placed this feature on their 22b, however, I was happy to gain this useful information on the difference.

I compared notes with this gentleman and we found that the internals were startlingly similar. Molybdenum coated cast pistons, forged rods, forged crank, and medium pressure-cast, closed-deck block!!

I'm not saying that it's the exact same short block, but the two engines do share some significant similarities to warrant saying they're "close enough."

So any other technical information you can provide from these techs that "worked on a real 22b" to further my own knowledge and Matt's on the blocks of the turbo legacy engine and the 22b engine would be greatly appreciated!!

Originally posted by 2.5GT
Hmmm, no response.

sorry dude, i dont check NASIOC forums everyday.

anyway, as i understand it the 22B block is a variation of the EJ20G - bored and stroked...not the underrated USDM EJ22T.

and youre right, no oil squirters - isnt that crazy?

Dennis ex24, where are you? I live in SJ and work in Philly, there is a 22b impreza running around our area?

Brandon

Originally posted by Dennis ex24
sorry dude, i dont check NASIOC forums everyday.

anyway, as i understand it the 22B block is a variation of the EJ20G - bored and stroked...not the underrated USDM EJ22T.

No problem. I only started frequenting this board when I saw this post:lol:

You're right the engine in the 22b was a bored (I'm not sure if stroke changed, but it might) out STi V4 Type R 2.0l engine. It retained the same heads and turbo as the v4 type R, IIRC.

Markedly different from the USDM 2.2L turbo engine in terms of build process, but when all is said and done, the nt result is a 2.2L engine with very similar attributes (I'm hazarding a guess that the bore, stroke, and subsequent rod-to-stroke ratio is the same as well). Like you said, all ej-series engines were originally derived from the 1.8L engine anyways . . .

Sorta off-topic, the basis for the body was also the STi v4 Type R, which was then seam-welded and given the widebody treatment and customized front bumper seen on the v4 gc8 (whoops, I used the nomenclature! j/k!) rally car , along with a wider set of wheels/tires.

So the "technical name' for the 22b was the STi v4 Type R 22b. Try saying that five times fast:eek:

Dennis,
No worries on the slow response. The E22's are over-bored, and not stroked, as 2.5GT mentioned. They are 96.9 X 75 mm. Also as mentioned, it had totally different heads than the SOHC US turbo, and did not have the forged pistons that the 22B had. I do still wonder about the squirters thing. Maybe it was an experiment they tried on the older Legacy blocks and didn't find it added anything so it wasn't done when they brought out the 22B...

Just to clarify:

22B bore x stroke 96.9 x 75.0mm. from You and Your Impreza Turbo

EJ22G bore x stroke 96.9 x 75.0mm from FSM

Same bore and stroke. How about that?

Originally posted by 2.5GT
Just to clarify:

22B bore x stroke 96.9 x 75.0mm. from You and Your Impreza Turbo

EJ22G bore x stroke 96.9 x 75.0mm from FSM

Same bore and stroke. How about that?

:huh:

Your sure on the oil squirters, I remember when you told me... it ruined the whole fantasy of the legacy 2.2. :lol:

Its sad that this may be the last year they will be making the 2.2. :(

I'm POSITIVE the turbo legacy blocks have oil squirters, but apparently, the 22b blocks DIDN'T.

Originally posted by 2.5GT
I'm POSITIVE the turbo legacy blocks have oil squirters, but apparently, the 22b blocks DIDN'T.

I guess it makes sense that they tested out the oil squirter and felt they were unneeded... so they left then out of the 22b.

Well, if the 22b did, in fact, have forged pistons, then the need for oil squirters might not have been an issue.

good point. I just picked up a junkyard EJ22T yesterday. I will be stripping it in the next few weeks and will post pics for all to see. I hope I can find a way to show the oil squirters...

Originally posted by Matt Monson
good point. I just picked up a junkyard EJ22T yesterday. I will be stripping it in the next few weeks and will post pics for all to see. I hope I can find a way to show the oil squirters...

Ive seen a pic with them... Ill look for where.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=480531&perpage=50&pagenumber=2

http://axispowerracing.net/22shortblock/pistonsquirters.JPG

Thats was easyer then I thought it would have been...

http://www.incorrigiblegeek.com/matt/ej22-1.jpg
It's going to be little while until I can show you that view of mine. It will be living in my trunk for the next two weeks until I move into my new house. But I can't complain cuz I got me a project
:banana:

I've got a bead on one of those too!!!! The junkyard guy says its out of a 91 legacy turbo with 84K...he wants $500 for the whole motor (excluding turbo). Does this sound like a fair price?

What should I look for on the outside to make sure it's the real deal? If it is then the engine code would be EJ22T right? What is the EJ22G out of and what are it's attributes?

BTW this will be going into a 97 OBS so what wiring harness and ECU should I use?

As you can see, I'm still in the planning phase but very excited about my first project, so any suggestions would be great!

As always, pictures and info will be posted as I progress. :D

The harness should come from what ever heads you are going to use. The legacys heads are crap, RS or wrx heads will out flow them by a huge amount. 500 is a good price...

Stock for stock maybe.


Flowing more overall doenst mean they are as efficient, the RS heads have NA cam setup. Also using the RS heads means an intake swap, which includes changing the injector type and electronics.

I only agree with the WRX heads, unfortunatly they are expensive used (cheapest I found was 1100 total for both). That same money could be spent to modify the EJ22T heads and have them greatly outflow all the rest.

Both of them are also a change from SOHC to DOHC, just making the swap that much harder.

She already has a 2.2 liter, swapping the EJ22T intact would be pretty straight forward. Engine management and smog issues would be where more research is needed.

sflint50: The only way to tell for sure is to remove a head and check if the deck is closed.

phase II sohc rs heads have been proven to out flow the dohc phase I rs heads not to mention the wrx heads. Dohc is not always better...at redline, dohc is but i would be inclined to say to use the phase II sohc with some upgraded springs/retainers...maybe port match etc...and call it a day. PLus, they are sohc and there is no fuss in worrying about sohc-----> dohc swap. I could be wrong tho...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=424055&highlight=heads+port+polish

Good thread on heads.

Sorry, I'm a newbie to scoobies....

What were the years for the Phase II SOHC RS heads? that way I'll know what to look for at the yards.

Originally posted by sflint50
Sorry, I'm a newbie to scoobies....

What were the years for the Phase II SOHC RS heads? that way I'll know what to look for at the yards.

98 was the last of the phase 1s. Phase 1 and 2 has to do with the short block crank and not the heads. 98 was a DOHC RS, before that they used a SOHC like the 2.2L motor has. After 98 they used the new SOHC wich flows more then the wrx DOHC heads.

i need some help in deciding if an engine i saw yesterday at a junk yard was potentially an ej22t. it was in a late 80's/early 90's turbo subaru wagon with the turbo already removed. the intake ports were spaced alot closer than on an ej25. i cant decide from looking at the pic at the top of this page if the ports were closer than that. can somebody tell me what years the ej22t was available or if all turbocharged 2.2 liter turboed engines from, say, 91-94 are ej22ts? if its decided this was potentially an ej22t i will go back and have a closer look at it.

is the only way to tell if its an ej22t is to remove the heads?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by xtorted-legacy
[B]phase II sohc rs heads have been proven to out flow the dohc phase I rs heads not to mention the wrx heads.

You have got to be kidding 35562017:furious:

the only problem with the EJ22T is the horrible heads on the engine. The block is better but if you could put on WRX heads and slightly higher compression pistons you would have a Very nice engine!!!

there's 3 guys, in town, including a good friend of mine, that are building "frankensten" engines based on the legacy turbo EJ22T and usdm wrx EJ20. There should be one on the road soon so feedback will come. what they do basicly is gettting the block in factory-new conditions. cylinder bored, block cleaned, all bearings and babbet changed. they use aftermarket rods and custom pistons. In fact, they kept they use the same casting and crankshaft, wich is supposed to be shared with the 22B, and change everything else for beefier parts. They use WRX heads as well as WRX electronics. going from 2.0l@8.0:1 compression ratio to 2.2@8.5:1 should give about 20% more power off-boost, and the block is build to sustain more than 20 psi of boost, making the 350-400hp range in sight

gentlemen, I have a 2002 wrx and am thinking of building a EJ22T motor for it. is there a better year from an another to get the doner block from or are all ej22t created equal ?? and from what your saying as long as I use the wrx heads I can use my harness and ECU ?? I would love to pick someones brain the has the knowlage for doing this kind of build ( like you have done one ) my # is 978 337 4147 call mid week eastern standard time during the day thanks Mike

gentlemen, I have a 2002 wrx and am thinking of building a EJ22T motor for it. is there a better year from an another to get the doner block from or are all ej22t created equal ?? and from what your saying as long as I use the wrx heads I can use my harness and ECU ?? I would love to pick someones brain the has the knowlage for doing this kind of build ( like you have done one ) my # is 978 337 4147 call mid week eastern standard time during the day thanks Mike


All you need is new pistons. Running the ej22T and WRX heads gives you like a 7:1 CR (cant remember the exact number), but that is low. I think Crawford Performance sells pistons designed to bring the CR back up to factory specs for running WRX heads. If they dont make them they can, or will have a set that will get you almost at the factory CR.

Ya, iirc its 7.7 to 1 CR way to low for a street car, sure you could run a load of boost, but just no fun. New pistons run around $500-600 then you need to have them installed... IMO its not worth it. Just get the ej257, if you want to go with forged parts just all out and get a fully build block. Crawford has some very nice ones...


I belive all ej22ts are the same phase 1 block. Your wrx ecu will work with out a problem, just get it retuned.

Yea, running the ej257 block with wrx heads runs a CR of like 8.9 or 8.5, just a bit higher then stock. I bet toto knows the numbers off the top of his head. ;)

i thought that the 2.2t was dohc to start with because all other suby turbo motors are

and even moded the dohc heads are better because the angle the ports are to the motor is better for higher rpm use which is something that can not be changed when moding the sohc heads

almost forgot about the oil squirters the 22b most likely doesnt have them because it is more of a competition based engine and not build to run 250k miles like most of the legacys are here are almost at
it also has forged pistons and heat doesnt weaken it as much as a cast piston

Yea, running the ej257 block with wrx heads runs a CR of like 8.9 or 8.5, just a bit higher then stock. I bet toto knows the numbers off the top of his head. ;)
Ya, I think its 8.7... I think its on one of the first pages of this thread. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=409100&highlight=sti+block+info

I thought the EJ22G block was the same used for the 22B and the USDM legacy turbo. Does anyone have ABSOLUTE 100% SURENESS OF PROOF that the 22B does not have squirters? For the pistons that is.

I thought that GC6 was the designation of the 2.5 RS body style/chassis.

OK, as for the 22B and the legacy 2.2 turbo engine- the legacy engine was designed as a 2.2 with the few mods such as oil squirters and the closed deck for various reasons. The 22b started out life as a wrx RA 2.0 engine that was bored and modifed.

GM6 is the coded designation for the usdm 2.5rs coupes ( I checked mine, parked outside. the GC was the JDM version of our cars.

As for the heads of the 2.2 legacy turbos, it is the weakest part of the engine, yes. But taken as a whole, the 2.2t engine is the best by far. So if money is no object, then yes, take that 2.2t block and go with different heads and Fuel system and other stuff. But if you just wanted to bolt in an engine, make it go and then tweak it, get a 2.2t or a jdm 2.0t- being that the jdm engines are a dime a dozen. and the 2.2t are obd-1 so the stand alone engine ecu should be easy.

OK, as for the 22B and the legacy 2.2 turbo engine- the legacy engine was designed as a 2.2 with the few mods such as oil squirters and the closed deck for various reasons. The 22b started out life as a wrx RA 2.0 engine that was bored and modifed.

GM6 is the coded designation for the usdm 2.5rs coupes ( I checked mine, parked outside. the GC was the JDM version of our cars.

As for the heads of the 2.2 legacy turbos, it is the weakest part of the engine, yes. But taken as a whole, the 2.2t engine is the best by far. So if money is no object, then yes, take that 2.2t block and go with different heads and Fuel system and other stuff. But if you just wanted to bolt in an engine, make it go and then tweak it, get a 2.2t or a jdm 2.0t- being that the jdm engines are a dime a dozen. and the 2.2t are obd-1 so the stand alone engine ecu should be easy.

GCx is sedan. Ive got a GC6.

Now...off to find the block stamping.

Jesus. This again. One of our members has a 22B block over in the UK. He has confirmed that not only does it not have oil squirters, but it has a phase II crank with the thrust bearing moved from center to the end. And the block was not a bored RA 2.0 engine. It was cast as a 2.2 and says EJ22 right on it. And block stamping won't tell you much. They will both say EJ22 on them. The G appears nowhere on the block. The G is what is known as division of fuel delivery and stands for DOHC MPFI turbo while the T on the USDM EJ22T stands for SOHC MPFI turbo...

Jesus. This again. One of our members has a 22B block over in the UK. He has confirmed that not only does it not have oil squirters, but it has a phase II crank with the thrust bearing moved from center to the end. And the block was not a bored RA 2.0 engine. It was cast as a 2.2 and says EJ22 right on it. And block stamping won't tell you much. They will both say EJ22 on them. The G appears nowhere on the block. The G is what is known as division of fuel delivery and stands for DOHC MPFI turbo while the T on the USDM EJ22T stands for SOHC MPFI turbo...

Need pics of the area behind the cyl banks on the 1-3 side at the rear of the block. Must see!

Need pics of the area behind the cyl banks on the 1-3 side at the rear of the block. Must see!
They are around somewhere I have seen them... I belive the first place was a ebay like place from japan selling a 22b long block. But everything Matt said is spot on.

either you take my word for it, or exercise your search button. I am not gonna spend my time researching the evidence for you for something that I spent a lot of time verifying the truth of in months past just because you don't believe me...