Alright guys (and girls), I did it. Last night I snuck into RalliSpec's shop and took a few spy pictures!

OK, reality check. RalliSpec's Dave and Andy allowed me to take some pictures of their Celica and their new intake. I just posted them up over on my site, Lagging.com (http://www.lagging.com/).

I *know* a lot of you are interested in the intake they've developed. Excellent quality, fit and finish. I don't know if the catch can is going to be standard with the intake, so don't ask. They are NOT selling it yet, so don't ask. It's been on a test vehicle for almost a week, a MY99 at that.

Some of you must be interested in the Celica. It's coming together pretty quickly. They've obviously been busting some a$$ working on it. Too bad it won't be done for STPR this weekend, but soon, soon.

Enjoy the pictures!

SteveS
http://www.lagging.com

The link wouldn't work for me (intake link). Rollcage was fine....

Thanks, Steve.

Which one? I tried to make sure I checked everything! Shoot......

hey steve, thanks for the great pictures.
The rally car sure is white! (I prefer Aspen white) It looks great. I am amazed at how far they have come. I saw in in Febuary and it was a bare metal shell!
Cool...

Paul G.

Cellica and intake pics still not working. http://208.9.184.67/NonCGI/frown.gif

Now the wrx brake upgrade on 2.5 RS pics are not working...

HTTP Error 404

404 Not Found

The Web server cannot find the file or script you asked for. Please check the URL to ensure that the path is correct.

Please contact the server's administrator if this problem persists.


[This message has been edited by Revision (edited June 02, 2000).]

ME WANT INTAKE, Sorry I mean. Me want intake, Me want intake! Did they have a ETA on the intake?

If you are getting the 404 not found error, you're using Netscape (my preferred browser). Load the page with Internet Explorer and it will work fine.

Looks like some kinda style sheet incompatibility.

For those without a copy of Internet Deplorer, here's a link to one of the pics...
<A HREF="http://www.lagging.com/cgi-bin/pic.pl?file=/subaru/rallispec/images/intake/rallispecintake.jpg">Try this</A>

If there is a reference to an external stylesheet and Netscape doesn't find it, a 404 is reported for the entire page. I want to like Netscape but they make it so hard!

Hoo yeah, that is a sweet looking intake, but I can't tell where the MAF is secured to keep vibration out. Not to mention any way of isolating the MAF from engine vibration...

But, I guess that is what the heat shield is for..

[This message has been edited by Revision (edited June 02, 2000).]

I assume you've fixed the problem with NS then? 'Cause it seemed to work really well for me... looks nice too...

Rallispec (if you read this) http://208.9.184.67/NonCGI/eek.gif I must say that is what I call quality and what we should expect from most manufacturers http://208.9.184.67/NonCGI/biggrin.gif . I would look at a cost of about $300 guessing on all the parts and such for the intake (am I close...if so well worth it)? One question will there be some sort of heat shield included? Other than that I am very impressed. Oh yeah seeing the Celica makes me want to pick one up for $3-4k and make it my play car.
Rich

Pardon me, but how is it different from JC, W*R or Minnam system for the exception of the oil cathc can?

I don't know why Netscape would have a problem. I haven't liked a version of Netscape since version 3 dot something. Sorry about the problems. The page does load an external style sheet (ever hear of "code reuse"?), but the sheet is there. Use it for damn near every page.

The intake is secured quite well. Sorry I didn't get a picture of it. Remember guys, they aren't done with the cold air portion of it yet. They're going to fabricate some type of baffle around the filter.

I hope the pictures do their intake justice. It's fantastic. Not shiny red like the Weapon R, but much better fit and finish.

SteveS
http://www.lagging.com/

Hmm, that intake looks exactly like Mark's(Kartboys brother), only he made his himself and had it over 1.5 years already. He also uses a pipercross filter and that welded aluminum adapterpipe. Was he involved in the design?
Just wondering...
Looks good, though.
Marius
99 RS blue

I'm in process of moving myself (now that's an addiction to this board http://208.9.184.67/NonCGI/wink.gif ) so I don't have time to look at the code, but I'm going to assume it's the different ways in which Internet Exploder and Netscape view pathing in an HTML file. Oh yeah, and on topic, the pics are pretty cool. I'm definitely interested in the Rallispec intake, and I'll never turn down some cool pics of a race car.

You are correct Marius my man. This photo is from the SE Michigan RS meet last summer with Fred, Roberto, Yourself, and me.
www.kartboy.com/kartboyintake.jpg (http://www.kartboy.com/kartboyintake.jpg)


mark@kartboy.com
www.kartboy.com (http://www.kartboy.com)

I have 13k miles of testing without failure, the stock airbox is much more likely to cause (additional) turbulence. The key is in the mounting, and in not having a defective unit from the factory in the first place.


Mark

LOL... Too bad you guys have to deal with MAF's. http://208.9.184.67/NonCGI/biggrin.gif

wow, I cant wait to drop by there again to check out the Celica.

I have over 13k miles on mine, which is a small aluminum adapter between filter and MAF mounting and a K&N cone filter. The rest is stock(resonator, "intake plenum"). So turbulences caused by the conefilter is probably not the cause. More likely an unsupported intake that vibrates and (due to the lack of the big volume of the black box)causes backfire into the intake at lean out conditions and uneven flow through the suction of every cylinder.
SCC(I guess) once mentioned an intake for MAF equipped cars that would make the S-AFC obsolete.
I wonder if this is the intake they where talking about.
Marius

I still haven't seen a reply to Imprezer's question. How IS it different?

IMO almost all the aftermarket intakes look the same in general for the Subie! http://208.9.184.67/NonCGI/wink.gif

With that said, notice that RalliSpec has a piece of pipe BETWEEN the Pipercross filter and the MAFS. Kartboy's doesn't have this. They are hoping that this extension helps prevents MAFS failure due to the high turbulence right at/after the filter intake. It's theory on their part, but that's why they are testing it.

BTW, the Celica is going to ROCK. I think Dave told me it weighs over 500lbs less than stock, and that's WITH the cage!

SteveS
http://www.lagging.com

Having seen or installed most if not all the intakes available for the 2.5RS we had a couple of goals in mind when we built ours:

1. Isolate the MAF sensor from vibration. We did this by using a rigid mounting bracket from the chassis to the sensor. You can't see the bracket in Steve's pics but its there. Generally most intakes we've seen that even bother to secure the intake mount it to a point on the engine. This subjects the MAF meter to a considerable amount of shaking. We've secured the MAF sensor to the chassis and allowed the engine movement to be absorbed by the silicone hosing preventing most of it from transmitting to the sensor.

2. Isolate the MAF sensor from turbulence. We had some discussions with the head of Subaru's training/development center and we agreed that turbulence right after the cone filter was probably affecting sensor accuracy...if not reliability as well. We moved the sensor approximately 6 inches upstream of the filter allowing the airflow to straighten out a bit (many MAF meters use a honeycomb core to straighten airflow through the sensor...the unit Subaru uses does not have this so it stands to reason it would be more susceptable to turbulence).

3. Improve on the fit and finish of the other intakes available. We made sure everything fits right. We machined adapters to allow us to use correct hose sizing so the hose fits snugly at the throttle body and the MAF sensor. We made sure the positioning of the intake would not allow it to contact either the ABS unit, hood, or the proportioning valve (seemed to be a big problem with other intakes). And we made sure everything required for the intake would be included. Construction is all aluminum...the tubing is mandrel bent 3" aluminum anodized black.

4. Open the hood vent. Opening the hood vent draws hot air out of the engine compartment which lowers the temperature of the air being drawn through the filter which improves power gains. We spaced the stock block-off plate down approximately 2 inches so that air will move through the vent but water will not pour onto the filter.

5. Minimize the heat transfer from the engine to the air being drawn in through the filter by the use of a cold air shield. This piece is the only piece on the intake not ready yet and so is not pictured. Construction will most likely be plastic (to keep costs down...carbon fiber was first choice but would push the pricing way beyond what we wanted).

6. Eliminate the contamination of the intake tract from oil vapors coming through the crankcase vent system. Basically we are including an aluminum catch can (as pictured...yes it will be included) to which all the PCV lines are attached. There is a drain bolt on the bottom...we will leave it to the customer as to whether they want to be creative and try to route the oil back into the oil pan.

So what is the pricing? $350 for the kit. Right now we have 19 systems built...3 MY98, 7 MY99 and 9 MY00. We are currently testing the '99 model and after 2 weeks including a 400 mile run up to STPR and back we have had no problems whatsoever. Run with our N1 exhaust there seems to be significant power gains especially up top. We are currently arranging a dyno test session within the next month or so that will test our intake, exhaust, and cams together and individually. Our car will be converted to 2wd to run a 2wd dyno so results probably won't be comparable directly to the SCC dyno tests.

Do you need an S-AFC? On the MY99/98 versions, current info seems to indicate no. You will need to reset the ECU or the car will not idle after you intall it. We are currently running a slight bit of low-throttle enrichment at low rpms but I suspect the ECU would correct itself in a short period of time anyway. We will get to testing this theory soon. We don't have any numbers on the MY00 yet so we don't know if it will require fuel correction or not. We have not experienced the lean condition that Shiv did. Again, more testing is required as we are relying mainly on O2 readings and seat of the pants feel. We don't yet have an EGT installed which might give us a better indication of how car runs with the intake.

So will we make more then the current 19 systems? We haven't yet decided...the whole project turned out to be considerably more time consuming then we had planned so we will have to see what the demand is like before we commit ouselves to another production run.

And finally...we have applied for patents on certain features of the system...we are that happy with the results. (just a warning to other manufacturers out there).

Looks like I'm blowing another @ $550 in the near future.

(Including a spare MAF.. Just in case..)

Rallispec, I'm confused.

You're saying that you are tieing it to the body of the car more solidly then other intake systems? Now I can see it being tied down in <a hred="http://www.lagging.com/subaru/rallispec/images/intake/rallispecintake2.jpg" target="_blank">this pic</a> but aren't you worried about the vibration from the chassis as well? Also, it looks like you're only tieing it down in one spot, which leaves at least one other dimension for it to vibrate in (up/down, also somewhat to the f&r of the car, but it is dampened obviously). You aren't concerned about these vibrations affecting the MAF?

I thought I'd bring this up because if this MAF is as sensitive as I've seen, then in order to keep it from breaking, you have to 'float' it in the car more like the stock intake (which has flex tubing towards the throttle body side, and a box with soft rubber mounts to dampen the other side of the MAF).

Just to clarify, though, I am driving a MY00 with the MAP sensor so I personally don't have to worry about my MAF, though I have been brainstorming with several other locals about it and I think that the best solution would be to completely isolate it.

On the vibration issue...

The big concern in our opinion was isolating from the drivetrain vibration...hence our reason for not tying in to a point on the engine itself. Keep in mind the element inside reaches high temperatures and runs the risk of breaking when exposed to large amplitude oscillations such as during the torque reactions of the drivetrain. The only vibrations of major concern on the chasis side of things were g-forces created by large suspension movements...not much to be done about them. As for the need for more then one mounting point or mounting to rubber...we are using an extremely short (and therefore rigid) bracket that is bolted to the MAF sensor. It doesn't completely minimize movement because we were concerned about the interface between the intake tubing and the sensor...we wanted to isolate vibration but didn't want it so rigid that is would have the tendency to break apart. The stock system is all plastic and is bellowed at the connection points...ours obviously is not. As for rubber mounting...we found that rubber mounting like the stock system didn't isolate enough vibration because our intake plumbing is so much more rigid then stock as I just mentioned and transmits movement more. Turned out to be a delicate balance.

FYI, I will lean towards 8Complex's view that from a design perspective, sometimes building something very rigid may not always be the better idea. Just in case someone w/ a stiff suspension goes over a bumpy road ... but testing will tell and you guys are the pros.

I have a MY00 RS so I have no idea how the MAF is mounted so ... I guess I'll just shut up now http://208.9.184.67/NonCGI/biggrin.gif.

Anyways, the Celica looks great! Plus, FYI I am very interested in a MY00 intake kit from you guys so count me in! Plus the turbo kit from turbo!!! (***** I live 8 hours from turbo and way too many hours from NJ ... If I only stayed in CT http://208.9.184.67/NonCGI/smile.gif for college).

uhhhhhhh this intake system will cost 550$?

STi Sev ~~ Uh, no. Did you read the thread? $350.

8Complex (and others) ~~ I don't think you are EVER going to completely rid yourself of the vibration issue. Even the stock MY99 intake setup is subject to vibration from the chassis...

350.- for a piece of tubing, a bracket and a foam filter? Come on guys, what is wrong with you?
A intake like this costs about 30.- in materials plus filter and fabrication is less than 100.-
I think 200.- should be the max for an intake like this.
I'm not trying to badmouth what you guys do, you spend a lot of time for R&D and have great stuff, but from a buyers view it's simply too expensive. If you just get the adapterplate that mounts to the MAF housing and a simple bracket done by a local machine shop, you can have a safe intake for less than 100.- plus filter.
Just my opinion.
Cams?(waiting...)
Marius
99 RS blue

hey Marius, you should be a millionare by november. i never knew it was so simple. how about a turbo?

Marius ~~ Take a pill or something. Nobody is forcing you to buy it. Even if RalliSpec was charging $200 for the kit, somebody would post, "I did mine with PVC and it only cost me $20!" So what?

This is a quality intake kit. Fits perfectly from what I saw, which is not true for the Weapon R kit. Includes the catch can so you aren't running vapor back into the intake (and the catch can is shop made by RalliSpec). Includes the filter. Includes all necessary adapters, clamps, nuts, bolts, screws, mounting brackets. Hell, it'll probably come with INSTRUCTIONS! Imagine that.

Anyhow, I admit I'm a RalliSpec fanboy. I'm almost sorry I asked them to let me post the pictures. It's good to ask questions and be wary of any claims. But these guys are giving you all the straight up. It feels better to them, but that's all they know for sure, until they dyno it.

Jeeeez...

SteveS
http://www.lagging.com

I'm NOT against Rallispec!! That's not what I'm saying!
Damn it, read what I say!
I said that from a buyers perspective it seems to be expensive. I don't doubt the quality or the effort and work they put in everything they make. You could make it cheaper yourself( a one off), IF you have the knowledge, tools and the time to do it. As most of us lack at least one of those, their intake will sell.
I honor everyone that actually makes something, not too many have something to deliver, heck, I don't have anything to offer myself. It's only a point of view.
And from what Rallispec just explained one can better understand the amount of R&D they actually put in this.
So just...
Marius
99 RS blue

Just to clear up the pricing issue before it comes into light here...

1. This intake was designed and tested and redesigned and retested by Rallispec. I'm sure they're charging an appropriate amount for it considering they probably had to pay for several MAF's in the meantime.

2. Look a little closer. Here is a <a href="http://www.lagging.com/subaru/rallispec/images/intake/rallispecintake2.jpg" target="_blank">link to the pic</a> so you can get the same angle I'm looking at.<ul>
· Notice the machined ring that mounts to the tube into the filter and also to the MAF.
· Notice the machined breather for the vacuum hoses.
· Just from looking at it, I'm sure that filter itself isn't cheap. nor is the silkscreening on the tube.[/list]
One other question for Rallispec - How often do you have to drain the oil from inside that breather piece? I got a lot on my filter within these last 4900 miles pretty quickly (must have something to do with the horizonal cylinders and very little resistence).

I had the pleasure of seeing the new intake while I was up at STPR this weekend and I can attest to the industry leading fit, finish and quality.

As for price... it's a bargin for what you get. Not to mention the impecable before and after the sale support from Rallispec. Comparing a DIY intake to this would be like comparing a set of Intrax springs to a Leda coilover setup. Sure they both lower your car but...

Tony

Edit:
8Complex,
I'm sure you have to drain it on a fairly regular basis. On stiff springs I manage to slosh a lot of oil out of my engine and into the intake while autoxing and spirited driving. I think that I will take Rallispec's suggestion and run a line from the drain of the can to a point on the block somewhere.

[This message has been edited by Tony (edited June 05, 2000).]

Tony - I never saw that, but yeah, a drain would be definetly be good. I'm on stock suspension and I manage to get qiute a bit of oil onto my air filter.

As for home made intakes not being as good, I'm sure mine makes much more power then this one (or any others produced out there), but then again I've got a MY00 (no MAF! Woooo hoooo!) and my intake isn't designed for the masses, just hardcore DIY'ers. I'll be releasing pics in the future, sometime early next week, I believe. http://208.9.184.67/NonCGI/smile.gif

Hey Mauris,
It is too expensive from your perspective! Stop trying to speak for everyone. I'll spend an extra $150 ($350-$200) if I am that much more sure my MAF wont blow up every other month. And you may not need an AFC ($280). So in my opinion, Rallispec's is cheaper, because all others require a $300 AFC and install, and that is for sure.
If you don't want to spend the money, don't waste our time posing about it! And people wonder why these companies don't want to post on this board!
Paul G.

We welcome any competition http://208.9.184.67/NonCGI/smile.gif

Marius, please send us one of your intakes so we can do a back-to-back dyno test.

As for pricing...the catch can is hand made aluminum...similar pieces generally run in the $60-100 range. Plus the MAF adapter and hose adapters are machined aluminum...plus anodizing its easily $25-40 each piece in small quantities from your local machine shop. The tubing is in the $40-50 range plus add another $40-60 to have someone anodize it for you. Another $10-15 in hosing and hose clamps. Similar US quality foam cone filters can by $50-100...we import ours from the UK because we know this company does good work, plus they worked with us on the design. Buy yourself some aircraft quality bonding glue and go to town. Oh...and if you've got a '98 be sure to weld on a piece of machined aluminum hose fitting so you can run a hose to your idle speed controller. Hmmm, what do you pay yourself for your time?? Let's say for sake of argument $5 and hour...below minimum wage. Put in about a days worth of research, a few days worth of design and fabrication time, and another couple days worth of testing and evaluation. So lets say a forty hour work week you just put in for your intake at $5/hr...thats $200. Oh and then go dyno test the thing....pay out about few hundred bucks to convert your car to 2wd and then $150/hr for dyno time.

Seems to me building up the same intake, if you just do one, is going to cost you well over $1000. Go ahead and build it...then sell it to us so we don't have to.

...there was a thread about vendors not posting anymore and I happened to mention that it never fails that someone will say they can make the same parts in their basement for half the price...and here you go proving that point. We aren't going to doubt you can...but please do a little research first. And please take into account the cost of the time you actually put in! Most people don't work for free (well we just about do...but that's another issue in itself). I need to pay for my food, housing, car, etc. with my work. We are not making millions here...there are quite a few people here who can attest to that. Geez, I don't even put many parts on my RS because we can't afford it...every part on there is undergoing testing, and usually gets pulled off to send somewhere (SCC, a customer, etc.) eventually.

Rallispec wrote: "And finally...we have applied for patents on certain features of the system...we are that happy with the results. (just a warning to other manufacturers out there)."

Guys, don't get me wrong, its great that you may have come up with something that you may be able to get a patent for, but do you know how much the application fees and lawyer fees can add up too? Let's see 19 units times $350 is only $6650 gross sales. Even if that number were pure profit, I think you would still be well short of covering the cost of getting it patented.

Have you guys even gone to the US Patent & Trademark Office's web site and done a preliminary patent search(s)? There are a lot of patents on intakes and differing means of reducing things such as turbulence, intake pulses, noise, etc. etc.. You really need to establish what is referred to as "prior art", and then show how your design improves upon that.

If you haven't already, you should clearly document your design with pictures, drawings, rough sketches, descriptions, etc.. These ducoments should be dated and signed with at least one witness.


Now when you guys said you haven't seen the lean problem Shiv had, how were you monitoring for it? We're you monitoring the MAFs output voltage?

Great job Ralispec!
Thanks for putting up with this, and choosing to stay on the board. Some people just don't understand the value of a dollar, and it's probably a good idea to shift your market to racers who do. Why do you pay $350? - Because you are not only buying a tested product, but the experience, and support to back it up!

Tony:
Comparing a DIY intake to this would be like comparing a set of Intrax springs to a Leda coilover setup. Sure they both lower your car but...
Exactly!

I just called Home Depot, and they won't pay to dyno test my PVC intake, or tune my A/F ratio... http://208.9.184.67/NonCGI/rolleyes.gif - Kris

I've only had my car for a few weeks, but I've been lurking on the board for quite some time. As long as I've been here, Rallispec has impressed me with their thorough and comprehensive comments to the Impreza community. I -really- appreciate companies who have that sense of commitment to their customer base. In my eyes it shows a level of involvement that is priceless when it comes to pre- and post-sales support.

With that said, are you preselling the intakes you have already built? If so, you can put me down for one for a '00 http://208.9.184.67/NonCGI/smile.gif

dave.

The intake looks great, but I have a question. The major issue being addressed by this intake is MAF failures right? So what do the MY00 guys get? And since the MY00 guys don't have the MAF they won't need some of the pieces that comes with the kit, is the price still the same for them? I'm just a newbie to all this stuff and was wondering if the extra money is worth it for the MY00 guys.

PS: Love that purple pipe http://208.9.184.67/NonCGI/smile.gif

Scrappy, Rallispec is in New Jersey, wrong side of the USA for UPRD I think...

The tube is black anodized aluminum not purple. I blame SteveS's crappy camera work (j/k) http://208.9.184.67/NonCGI/wink.gif

As for dynoing it, I think they already mentioned they're converting Dave's car to FWD and putting it on a 2WD dyno. We won't be able to compare the results directly to the ones made by SCC and others at UPRD but it should show the gains from the system.

Tony

[This message has been edited by Tony (edited June 05, 2000).]

I'll take blame for the crappy angles, but not for the color! That's due to my cheapo digital camera. http://208.9.184.67/NonCGI/wink.gif


Marius~~ I don't know why you are so defensive now. I've seen plenty of your posts and I know you aren't trolling. But reread some of what you originally posted: 350.- for a piece of tubing, a bracket and a foam filter? Come on guys, what is wrong with you?
A intake like this costs about 30.- in materials plus filter and fabrication is less than 100.-
I think 200.- should be the max for an intake like this.I think what set me off was your "what is wrong with you" comment/question. Your posting was very, uhm, aggressive. I stand by what I said earlier, nobody is forcing you to buy it. I think RalliSpec did a good job explaining the cost of their intake, which is something above and beyond what they really need to be doing. I'm sure when I talk to them they're going to give me hell for all the flack I've somehow stirred up! http://208.9.184.67/NonCGI/wink.gif


[This message has been edited by SteveS (edited June 05, 2000).]

Jersy huh?...

well that pretty much makes that dyno day a TAD bit unlikely haha!

Anybody around the HB site want to go together to UPRD and do some dyno stuff. It would be cheaper if we do it together...

let me know if any interest exists..

SCRAPPYDO
stephen

I think sometimes we need to remember the market that RalliSpec is trying to cater to. Performance mods for US based Subarus still sucks, and it is VERY small. The fact that RS wants to be involved with such a small market at all shows that they are really dedicated. They are doing it because they WANT to, not because there is a lot of money in it. Will they make money? I hope they do, they deserve it. But it's not like a Honda market where there is tons of money to be made making garbage products for an unlimited number of buyers.

ANYONE, and I mean anyone, that has ever been in their shop when they are working on ANY project sees the amount of dedication and persistance that RalliSpec has towards everything they do. If they are not 100% satisfied with how something comes out, they do it again. We should be proud that there is someone who REALLY wants to make beneficial products for our tiny market.

Kevin
www.lagging.com (http://www.lagging.com)

I'd have to agree with Rallispec on the price of this intake system. I'd charge at least the same, if not more, for the identical system. That's a good reason we don't make one, aside from my personal one that is. This sensitive part of the car is something I wouldn't want to tackle on a public basis. I stand somewhat firm (?) in my feeling that the majority of failures are due to mfg. defects in the MAF since they even fail on un-modified cars. This discussion will certainly generate some sales for Rallispec! Good job guys. We got a lot of business in the same manner.


mark@kartboy.com
www.kartboy.com (http://www.kartboy.com)

I have to say the price is steep. Very steep for what one would call "just an intake".

But if Rallispec can put out the best product on the market, we have to pay for it. It's that simple. We have to pay extra for quality because we're such a small market.

Don't like it? Don't buy it. Really don't like it? Sell your RS and buy a Honda.

I don't know what else to tell you other than that $350 tells me that this is the highest quality intake in the market just because no one else has the balls to charge so much cash for such a little item to be sold to such a unified, concentrated market. It makes zero business sense. Ask Challenger Deep...their service is great, I hear he's a great guy, but if you charge huge prices people are going to wonder why-and stop buying, accordingly. Rallispec has not "ripped anyone off" and I don't expect them to...in this case I think they really did put $300 worth of parts/labor per intake.

Boy, that turned into a ramble and a half... http://208.9.184.67/NonCGI/biggrin.gif I hope Rallispec has done the intake thing right. Now we'll have to see.

BTW, Rallispec-don't leave the board. I love reading updates from the vendors. Sure beats debating which body kit looks best. http://208.9.184.67/NonCGI/smile.gif

Ignore this post

[This message has been edited by STi Sev (edited June 05, 2000).]

Ignore this post

[This message has been edited by STi Sev (edited June 05, 2000).]

Ignore this post

[This message has been edited by STi Sev (edited June 05, 2000).]

Marius-

Don't take anything I said the wrong way. But if you're going to complain about price, you don't have to buy it. I have no intention of purchasing this intake in the near future, I don't think, unless I make a lot of expendable money fast. Ditto for the ultra-expensive coil over suspension kits or the ultra-expensive brakes. They're just too pricey to be in my future.

But we are going to get the short end of the stick in terms of prices. Such is the way of things. And if Rallispec is making a quality product, well, the price are going to be astronomical relative to our buddies in the domestic or Honda/Mitsu/Toyota scenes.

Sev-

I invite you to one day look all over town (or the internet) for performance parts for one of the following cars:

5.0 liter late model Mustang
Camaro V8
Honda Civic EX/Si
Mitsubishi Eclipse

I want you to gather up all the prices you found on your search and compare them to the prices we're paying on our Subaru parts. Go ahead, prove me wrong.

Don't give me bullsh** about getting cheap, quality parts for our cars. Cheap and quality are two different words that rarely are associated with each other...especially in our market. That's not to say they aren't, but you get what you pay for with cars.

And if you don't consider a total of 25,000 cars MANUFACTURED (not sold to a performance-oriented buyer) small, then I have to question your judgement.

Once again-25,000. Think the entire US, think all the Honda EXs or even all the Nissan 200/240/300s or all the Toyota Celica/Solaras or all the Mitsu whatevers or all the domestics for crying out loud.

We're tiny. Minute. A blip on the aftermarket screen.

My goal is to be a very fast blip. http://208.9.184.67/NonCGI/smile.gif

Ignore this post

[This message has been edited by STi Sev (edited June 05, 2000).]

Woah! - Everybody chill.
Speaking of giving up - I thought we were all beyond the cheezy flame wars.

Everybody has a right to their own opinion, and has a right to speak it. Lets just leave out the term "moron" and "bull *******" in our posts.

We all get it... Kris

Sorry, I got a little carried away. No hard feelings, right? After all, we're all stuck in the same boat. http://208.9.184.67/NonCGI/smile.gif

I just can't stand to see people telling me something that is completely contrary to the facts.

Just some numbers from NOPI, all for a 98 Civic:
Sidemarkers: $10.83
Rear tails: $113.33
Headlamps: $122.50
Air Intake: $50.00

We are going to pay premium prices. That's the way of things. Even the high quality stuff for a Civic runs less than what we pay for the "normal" mass-produced "universal" stuff. It's the way of things and I can't stand to hear people say it isn't.

Have a good one.

Just for the record, I would never buy an intake that expensive either. HOWEVER, I do not have the need to either. My MY00 has the absolute best intake it could have and it is homemade. No dyno numbers, but who has the money to rent a dyno for leisure use? Certainly not I.

well said guys. this only proves that great products/service will build a loyal customer base. great job yet again, Rallispec.
BTW, that Celica looks terrific.
did you guys also invent some sort of time machine to be able to work on that, the product development, and service your customers? or are you still amongst the ranks of people who should be sleeping more? http://208.9.184.67/NonCGI/biggrin.gif

I quit!
I never said that Rallispec products are bad or something. I also said that it seems expensive, i said why and Rallispec explained how their cost adds up. So for everyone that can read(+understand the context) the issue was solved many posts ago. Obviously noone understands the difference between an impression and an opinion. rallispec does a thorough job, but why argue with morons that can't read?
I had enough, that board goes a strange way, unfortunately.
Marius

I think the point is getting mixed up. Rallispec did not say that they invented a brand new design revolutionary intake. They took an existing design and did some actual research (this is what I have been told anyway) and produced their version of a intake for our cars. They are even offering a 'cold-air' kit to add on. I think that anybody that makes parts for our cars is trying to fill a consumer need. We asked for this intake now that we have seen it we are crucifying it!

I recently built my own intake, and guess what, to use quality materials (mandrel bent thin wall powder-coated aluminum, quality silicone intake hose, and good aftermarket filter) it cost me well above 275 bucks! That is working on no labor charges. There is a HUGE difference in a well built and thought out home design as compared to a almost as good at half the price Home Depot job.

Materials is the name of the game. You can run to home depot and but some PVC pipe and some dryer hose and put enough tape and hose clamps to hold it together. But to use actual quality materials is rather expensive.
And from what I have seen, this is exactly what Rallispec has done, my hat is off.

I will be taking my car to UPRD soon to do a side by side comparison with my cold air set up vs. stock set up on it just for kicks. I dont know where you are based Rallispec, but if you are going to UPRD I would like to go the same day as you (if for no other reason than to have the dyno set up fees split in half). Not for a showdown or anything like that, but just for fun. If I find out that I am using an intake that does not perform as well as yours.. well mine has to go hahaha. I am not about who is better, I am about putting the best product on my car that I can. I am incredibly pleased with my intakes results so far as some people have read about, but that is just my opinion.. means nothing without numbers..

One thing to remember though... a cold air set up on a dyno is not a really good test, because the fans used to cool the cars usually dont put out enough air to represent actual vehicle motion. I am sure people with dyno experience will agree.

Anyway I wish you the best of luck! And I await your results from you test!

SCRAPPYDO
stephen

FYI: when the demand for any given product is low & the cost of R&D remains the same this cost can not be offset via volume sales. Thus the higher cost of RS aftermarket products in the US.

How can you claim that your car has the best intake possible without any dyno runs? Without them, that's just a hypothesis, not fact.

y2k4door - True... but be as skeptical as you want, I'll have pictures up next week that'll have MY98-99 people kicking the crap outta me and MY00 people out in their garage working on their cars. http://208.9.184.67/NonCGI/smile.gif

Why next week? Cause I'm still doing a little testing and I want to reveal it to the Midwesterners at the autocross this Sunday first. I always let my home crowd in on things before the general public. http://208.9.184.67/NonCGI/smile.gif

Is anyone going to answer Saw Jai's question as to why the cost is the same between the '99 and '00 intakes? The '00 should be less expensive since it doesn't require anything special for the MAF (since there isn't one)

I agree with a lot of the people posting about the fact that this is rather pricey for just an intake but, I put my name in for one anyway because ....how many other companies have set out to specifically target the MAF cursed '99MY cars. Of course they will not guarrantee that this will be the solution to the MAF problem and that is probably why they aren't selling them as of yet. They want to test it as thoroughly as possible first (I would imagine).At least they are doing something...
If this will save me from buying numerous MAF replacements and a afc then it is worth the cost...we shall see...

Lets see, the MY99 runs lean with a tube intake due to misreadings on the MAF due to turbulance/pulsing. The MY00 runs rich with a tube intake due to the MAP mismatch with the ecu map.

RalliSpec claims to have different model intakes for 98, 99 and 00. So theoretically, the 99 intake should fix the lean run issue and the 00 intake should fix the rich run issue, all without modifying the ecu in any way. But we won't find that out until RalliSpec finishes their testing.

Here's my 2 cents on the Rallispec intake (like anyone cares http://208.9.184.67/NonCGI/smile.gif).

If my memory is correct, Larry Ganz (sp??) asked around for a shop to custom make an aluminum pipe (w/ mandrel bends I asssume) for an intake. I think he dropped the idea because the best price he found was $270 (I think ... anyways)!!!

Not only that, you have the Rallispec quality service, which means that not only will everything fit like they say it would, but all the parts necessary will be there http://208.9.184.67/NonCGI/biggrin.gif.

For another comparison, JC sport and Weapon *R are both around $195 range. And this is w/o the aluminum catch can AND the intake heat shield. Plus, you have the documented testing, the attempt at dealing w/ the MAF problem, and again the quality. Is all this worth the $155 more, well it's your decision. But, if you're going to attack someone on price, at least be fair and not single any one out (esp. the one nice enough to explain stuff on this board - since it seems like both JC and Weapons (and I'm sure other intakes) are WAY above $100).

When are they supposed to dyno the 2WD car??

Would it be possible to get it in a different color? I really don't like the black http://208.9.184.67/NonCGI/smile.gif

[b]8complex[b/]: Do you know what laminar flow is?