I have a 1997 OBS that I'm wanting to build a turbo motor for. I've found an EJ22 motor from a 92 Legacy Turbo with 84K miles on it. The guy wants $500 for it without the turbo and says that the car ran and drove great before the engine was removed.

As this will be my first "build" my questions are:

Is this the closed deck motor that I've been hearing so much about?

Is the early 90's EJ22 the best to build for both high HP and reliability?

What are the telltale items that I should look for on the actual motor so junk yard guys don't try to pull the wool over my eyes just because I'm a woman.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Originally posted by sflint50
I have a 1997 OBS that I'm wanting to build a turbo motor for. I've found an EJ22 motor from a 92 Legacy Turbo with 84K miles on it. The guy wants $500 for it without the turbo and says that the car ran and drove great before the engine was removed.

As this will be my first "build" my questions are:

Is this the closed deck motor that I've been hearing so much about?

Is the early 90's EJ22 the best to build for both high HP and reliability?

What are the telltale items that I should look for on the actual motor so junk yard guys don't try to pull the wool over my eyes just because I'm a woman.

Thanks in advance for any help.

1991-1994 turbo legacys used the fully closed deck 2.2 block... It is the same 'block' as the 22B impreza. Its just a 4 bolt motor.

EJ22T shortblocks own all. Thats the truth.

HTH

-Mike

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=352136&highlight=ej22+oil

This thread should get you started on a search for 2.2 info.

Originally posted by MJU1983
1991-1994 turbo legacys used the fully closed deck 2.2 block... It is the same 'block' as the 22B impreza. Its just a 4 bolt motor.

That's not true, the 22B used a different block.

EJ22T shortblocks own all. Thats the truth.

That is true however. ;)

It is true. The EJ22G from US turbo legacyand 22B block are the same. Attached items are not.

Originally posted by ciper
It is true. The EJ22G from US turbo legacyand 22B block are the same. Attached items are not.

Mmm, ciper. The 22B block is not the same. It doesn't have oil squirters for one thing. It's supposedly a bored STI V4 type R EJ20G.

Now while I would normally take your word about Subaru engines (as you're one of the more knowledgable people when it comes to them) a guy that has access to the SOA techs that work on the only street legal 22B in the united states and works for SOA states that it is a fact that it is different. So on this one I'll have to go along with him. ;)

I actually had the pleasure of seeing this 22B in person, along with the ESX WRX drag car, at last years East Coast Subaru Shootout. OMG it is sooo pimp. I would seriously give up my left nut to have it. :devil: I also got to meet Dennis (who is the guy mentioned above and was with SOA at the shootout) and see his sweet, modded XT-T.

soa also says only 12 turbo legs were sold in 92. Not that I'm trying to say you are wrong or anything like that I'm just saying that SOA doesn't have reliable information.

I wouldnt trust anything SOA says. ;)

Either way its the same block... dissplacment, stroke.... so on all the same. One just might not have oil squiters.

Dammit fat, its not bored anything

Its a later revision of the EJ22 turbo we had in america. I tried to imply that the block alone was the same, oil squirters are additional.
Dont give me that much credit, I dont own one so its all heresay. However I have seen many pictures of the engine removed from vehicles in different states and saw the similaritys, including the EJ22 stamp next to the PS pump.

Originally posted by THAWA
soa also says only 12 turbo legs were sold in 92. Not that I'm trying to say you are wrong or anything like that I'm just saying that SOA doesn't have reliable information.

I would agree that I would not trust anything SOA says but that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying a guy at SOA that knows the guy who owns the only legal 22B in the states, also at SOA, says that it's not an EJ22G. This is not info from the SOA PR department.


Originally posted by ciper
Dammit fat, its not bored anything

Who's fat? I assume you're talking to me.

Its a later revision of the EJ22 turbo we had in america. I tried to imply that the block alone was the same, oil squirters are additional.
Dont give me that much credit, I dont own one so its all heresay. However I have seen many pictures of the engine removed from vehicles in different states and saw the similaritys, including the EJ22 stamp next to the PS pump.

I too have seen that they have EJ22 stamped on the 22B's block but that doesn't make it an EJ22G.

Maybe I'm wrong, who knows, it did happen once before a few years back. ;)

So what if its an EJ22H? :lol:

We will probably never know, very few of us have even seen images of the engine let alone been near onein real life.

All I know is that the block is stamped EJ22. Meaning it was created initially as that displacement, not modified after production for the car.

blah,blah blah...;)
We went through this with Dennis back in January:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=479779

To summarize that thread:

22b engine is based off legacy turbo block. All external/internal items not in consideration.

;)

the 22b and legacy turbo engine blocks are not the same and in fact are 2 different part numbers, but keep telling yourselves it is if it makes you guys feel better...no need to give the guy a hard time over it.

matt, you have a PM.

Originally posted by Dennis ex24
the 22b and legacy turbo engine blocks are not the same and in fact are 2 different part numbers, but keep telling yourselves it is if it makes you guys feel better...no need to give the guy a hard time over it.

ill see if i can get the numbers again and post them here soon for proof...

That would be awesome. It has never been my intent to proove you wrong, but just to find out the true answer to the on-going debate/myth about this...
I have a Legacy turbo block in peices my garage right now, so I can provide all of the numbers stamped onto it except one set right above the crank, which no doubt will be the most important ones with my luck.

Dennis ex24: You frustate me greatly. Your argument is weak.

Part numbers have nothing to do with it. For example a 90 legacy wagon with abs front right spring and 90 legacy wagon without abs front right spring have exactly the same height and rating yet they have two part numbers.

They are the same block. What do you have against a USDM Turbo Legacy?

"if it makes you guys feel better...no need to give the guy a hard time over it."

We are trying to make sure ACCURATE information is posted on the board. Nothing else.

Some one should head over to www.22b.com or www.scoobynet.co.uk and ask for pics of the block...

The 22B site's tech section is incorrect.

Pictures of the EJ22 stamp on the 22b block will be available soon on legacycentral showing that it IS NOT a 2.0L engine which is later bored out.

edit: second page of this thread http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=15652

If you would like to correct this misinformation please visit http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=15662

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ciper
Pictures of the EJ22 stamp on the 22b block will be available soon on legacycentral showing that it IS NOT a 2.0L engine which is later bored out.

QUOTE]
I have spoken to Dennis in private, and he never claimed that it was a bored EJ20, that was Legacy92ej22t that put out that crap about a bored v4 STi. All Dennis claimed was that the Legacy turbo block and the 22B block were not the same block. At this point, I am tending to agree with this. I do agree with your assertion in that Legacy Central thread that the USDM EJ22T may have served as the inspiration and basis for the 22B block. But since they removed the oil squirters, I am going to guess that they recast the mold of the EJ22 before they made the 22B's...

BTW, Dennis has told me that he will try and get some of the other casting numbers of the block from the 22B the next time he gets to see it (There is only one in America, and Dennis does in fact work for SOA...) We'll figure this out yet.

From my understanding of how this works it would have been easy to remove the oil squirters from the block, then create 22b specific blocks. My experience comes from a sculpter buddy and the metal shops he works with.

Just like the changes to later 2.2NA engines, a 1990 legacy and a 2001 impreza with 2.2 are the same block even if they aren't the same part number or external appearance.

Meaning the 22b is still using later revision of the legacy turbo block. Later doesnt necessarily mean better either, in fact why wouldnt using a legacy turbo block be considered an upgrade to a real 22B?

Originally posted by Matt Monson
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ciper
Pictures of the EJ22 stamp on the 22b block will be available soon on legacycentral showing that it IS NOT a 2.0L engine which is later bored out.

QUOTE]
I have spoken to Dennis in private, and he never claimed that it was a bored EJ20, that was Legacy92ej22t that put out that crap about a bored v4 STi. All Dennis claimed was that the Legacy turbo block and the 22B block were not the same block. At this point, I am tending to agree with this. I do agree with your assertion in that Legacy Central thread that the USDM EJ22T may have served as the inspiration and basis for the 22B block. But since they removed the oil squirters, I am going to guess that they recast the mold of the EJ22 before they made the 22B's...

BTW, Dennis has told me that he will try and get some of the other casting numbers of the block from the 22B the next time he gets to see it (There is only one in America, and Dennis does in fact work for SOA...) We'll figure this out yet.

Ya, about the only 22b in the usa... http://www.granturismo-rentals.com/subimp22b.htm

Who wants to meet up in texas? We can get a shop around there pull the motor, they wont know they will think we are driving it, and settle this.
:lol:


I dont know about easy but you can add and remove oil squiters with out a whole lot of pain.

:furious:
Originally posted by Matt Monson

I have spoken to Dennis in private, and he never claimed that it was a bored EJ20,

This is from the above link that you posted about talking to Dennis in January:

Originally posted by Dennis ex24
[B] sorry dude, i dont check NASIOC forums everyday.

anyway, as i understand it the 22B block is a variation of the EJ20G - bored and stroked...not the underrated USDM EJ22T.

and youre right, no oil squirters - isnt that crazy?

Hmmm....Gee, isn't that strange?


Originally posted by Matt Monson that was Legacy92ej22t that put out that crap about a bored v4 STi. All Dennis claimed was that the Legacy turbo block and the 22B block were not the same block.

Dude, before you go slandering my name at least get the facts straight. That wasn't what he said back in January. :mad: This is also a responce to Dennis's above post in the same thread:

Originally posted by 2.5GT

You're right the engine in the 22b was a bored (I'm not sure if stroke changed, but it might) out STi V4 Type R 2.0l engine. It retained the same heads and turbo as the v4 type R, IIRC.

Markedly different from the USDM 2.2L turbo engine in terms of build process, but when all is said and done, the nt result is a 2.2L engine with very similar attributes (I'm hazarding a guess that the bore, stroke, and subsequent rod-to-stroke ratio is the same as well). Like you said, all ej-series engines were originally derived from the 1.8L engine anyways . . .

So the "technical name' for the 22b was the STi v4 Type R 22b. Try saying that five times fast:eek:

As you can see I was only quoting what was said by other's and not "putting out crap". I have no control over wheather or not people are going to change their stories when people challange them. All I was trying to say is that Dennis had said the 22b was a bored variant of the EJ20G (which he did say) and I guess I got 2.5GT's mention of the STI v4 type R confused with what Dennis said. I was trusting what Dennis had to say as being the most reliable since he was the only person in the conversations that actually has access to a 22b. It seems the information is getting a little inconsistant though so.....

wow...all that discussion and no one answered the original question:lol:

Yeah, we did. :devil:

Originally posted by MJU1983
EJ22T shortblocks own all. Thats the truth.

Originally posted by legacy92ej22t
Mmm, ciper. The 22B block is not the same. It doesn't have oil squirters for one thing. It's supposedly a bored STI V4 type R EJ20G.

Now while I would normally take your word about Subaru engines (as you're one of the more knowledgable people when it comes to them) a guy that has access to the SOA techs that work on the only street legal 22B in the united states and works for SOA states that it is a fact that it is different. So on this one I'll have to go along with him. ;)

I actually had the pleasure of seeing this 22B in person, along with the ESX WRX drag car, at last years East Coast Subaru Shootout. OMG it is sooo pimp. I would seriously give up my left nut to have it. :devil: I also got to meet Dennis (who is the guy mentioned above and was with SOA at the shootout) and see his sweet, modded XT-T.


Legacy,
I hardly see how it could be slanderous if I am just pointing out something that you actually said. The fact that Dennis was the original source and you took his assertions at face value doesn't make it any less your statement. Furthermore, slander implies that I had a malicious intent. I apologize if you took offense to my remarks. I absolutley made a mistake my not ALSO attributing that mis-information to Dennis. I didn't bother to go back and read the old thread, and obviously didn't even read this one very well since what I quote above from you attributes it to Dennis as the source. But in the end, as I always say, I don't care who is right or wrong, I just want to know the right answer. And on the mystery of the origin of the EJ22G found in the 22B, I think it may remain a mystery and continue to be an ubran myth...

Well the only real reason I used the word slander is because of the way you said it, the use of crap and all. Maybe slander was the wrong word but I took it as having malicious intent. You're right that I did say it/repeated it but I wasn't the source which was what you implied, which was also the reason I felt I had to defend myself. All I want is the truth too, period. I'm not angry and sorry I got defensive. Hopefully the true answer will be found soon so that this subject may finally be laid to rest. :)

Would going with a Legacy turbo block be that much better than fully building a WRX block? I have a T67-25G and would like to go with the better of the 2 routes when this block gives. What are the downfalls of using the Legacy turbo block?


Anyone willing to give a Subie newbie a little help and wants to keep it off of here go ahead and shoot me a email at allanbargenquast@cox.net or just post up.

The local Subaru guys told me I am crazy when I told them my power goals so I was hoping someone on a international level would be willing to help. Thanks in advance.

Send me a PM with what you are looking to do, and I will give you my thoughts...

Originally posted by neversatisfied
Would going with a Legacy turbo block be that much better than fully building a WRX block? I have a T67-25G and would like to go with the better of the 2 routes when this block gives. What are the downfalls of using the Legacy turbo block?


Anyone willing to give a Subie newbie a little help and wants to keep it off of here go ahead and shoot me a email at allanbargenquast@cox.net or just post up.

The local Subaru guys told me I am crazy when I told them my power goals so I was hoping someone on a international level would be willing to help. Thanks in advance.
Dude the 2.2 is a great block and at 7.7 on wrx heads you can ramp that beast of a turbo up to the 25 psi(given you have the supporting mods fuel, i/c and what not). But if you realy want that turbo to shine its going to cost. Get some head work done.... thies guys do great work. And you might want to think about getting a fully built block like a 2.35(2.2 with 2.5 crank) or a 2.4. The 2.2 will hold boost but you have a monster turbo there and its going to be lagy on a 2.2. Hell you have it on a 2.0 it must be lagly as all hell.
www.axispowerracing.net
www.i-speedusa.com
A set of cams would help too just 256 would go nice but the cost $1200.


Check out this thread all the searching for the info on the 2.2 is done.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=505723&highlight=ej22

Right now the turbo is pretty laggy. Full boost (12 psi) comes on right before 4500 rpms. I have the Blitz FMIC kit and I plan on a programable and fuel mods next.

Liberty block has 4-bolt mains, 22B has 6-bolt mains, according to an old thread by Mike from Axis. Therefore the 22B block should be a bit tougher.

Then again this might not clear up any confusion. I've heard of the same block coming in 2, 4 and 6-bolt variants.

Cheers,
Ben

Just noticed Mike has already contributed to this thread. Sorry. My bad. Oops.

Still trying to figure out why the ver 4 Type R has an EJ20G could have sworn it was an EJ20K.

Duo,
you have new PM...

I've always been fond of a 2.2. I know Primitive Racing has gotten good results with theirs. I believe that's what they run anways.