I've been itching to get a new pistol recently and was going to run a couple of ideas by you guys to see what your thoughts were. I know some of you know your weapons, and some don't. But anyone can answer or discuss, it don't matter none to me.

First off, for just pistols I currently own:

Smith & Wesson 629-4 Limited Edition "Mountain Gun" (.44 magnum 6-shot revolver with 4" barrel) It looks like the following, although on the right side of the barrel it states ".44 MAGNUM" where the picture shows "Smith & Wesson" and on the opposite side is states "Mountain Gun".
http://firearms.smith-wesson.com/userimages/163603_large.jpg

Smith & Wesson 4506 (.45 semi-auto). I can't find any mention of it on the S&W website, but it looks much like this gun, although with a 5" barrel, not a 3.75". It doesn't look nearly as stubby.
http://firearms.smith-wesson.com/userimages/104808_large.jpg

Glock 17 (9mm semi-auto with pre-ban clips) It looks like this gun (also a 17) but without the finger nubs on the grip, mine is smooth.
http://www.glock.com/g17.jpg

I would have taken actual pictures, but I have them locked up in storage elswhere at the moment, sorry. I also have a good number of .22's and a .38, but they aren't "My Guns" they're just my guns, ya know?

I have brought the debate down to two weapons (although feel free to add to the list, that's the point of the post). The above guns are all considered "Full sized". I'm looking for a compact weapon that retains a full grip (two finger grips don't do it for me) so I can have full control but with a bit more concealment. It will be a carried weapon as well as a range-day gun, so wearing comfort has to balance out with fun to shoot and accuracy.

For the size/power sacrifice I've opted for a .40 caliber.

1st gun: Gock 23. It is a compact gun, but not a smaller "personal defence" (ie; two fingered) weapon. Information on it can be found here. (http://www.glock.com/40.htm) Click on the 23 for more details.

Pros: Lighter, Glock reliability and handling, optional "compensated" porting for recoil reduction (an option I'd choose). Possible larger round capacity (depending on law). "Safe Action" safety, ie; no switch to throw, just pull the trigger.

Cons: Physically larger, already own (very happily) a Glock and have an inkling for something new...just not enough of an inkling to make the decision. Price, if the trend that was around when I got my first one continued to today, the Glock may be pricier (although the 2nd gun has never been cheap, so it might be equal or more expensive, I haven't actually checked locally yet).

2nd gun: Heckler & Koch USP Compact. Also a very reliable and trusted weapon. More info here. (http://www.hk-usa.com/pages/civilian/handguns/uspcompact.html)

Pros: Physically smaller, H&K reliability and handling, optional 9-setting trigger firing modes, mechanical recoil compensation (rather than ported), universal mounting groves for tactical add-ons (flashlights being the most common but by no means the only choice), customizable to the user in its layout, something new.

Cons: Heavier, possibly smaller overall capacity (only states 10 where Glock states 10/13/15 depending on law), more complicated handling (safety switch), may be just as expensive or more so than the Glock.

So, did anyone survive to the end of this post? No cliff notes for you! Get off of your mental ass and read it!

Tell me your opinion of the two or give me more options (links full of info, please, if possible).

Andrew

I'm a very big fan of the USP. I've never actually shot one in real life, but I have shot over 3 million rounds out of a USP in Counter-Strike :lol: In fact, in CS you can kill an unarmored person with a USP with about 5 shots to the chest, with the glock it's about 8 or 9 shots. So the game developers must have had some basic idea of gun ratings to make that decision. :D

But seriously, I've always liked the look of the Universal Self Loading pistolo, it looks so mean but so small. My brother has a Glock 17 (could be wrong on number) for work at Palmer Correctional, he swears by that gun, and swears by the Glock company. I don't have any similiar "real life" experiences the Heckler and Koch gun. They make the mp5 submachine gun though, so they must be good at something.

Get the USP, you already have a Glock.

As for other options, I have a need to obtain/purchase/steal a Desert Eagle .50AE before I die. Something about the look of the Deagle just makes me want to start leg humping something.

This is a .45 I think, I am pretty sure that they make a .357 for a Desert Eagle, maybe I'm lying.
http://www.magnumresearch.com/products/DE44.jpg

If not, the Baby Eagle would suffice, they make that in 9mm and .40, still has the "OMG IM GOING TO **** MY PANTS" look that the Desert Eagle has. My boss in Orygun had a .40 Baby Eagle, I made him let me hold it, I then proceeded to say "Awww it's like you wanted the Desert Eagle, but you didn't have the money so you bought the cuter smaller one." He was pretty pissed after that. http://www.magnumresearch.com/ for DE crap.

Edit: And here's my gun, if you are at all interested:
http://www.freepixhosting.com/uploadedfiles/DSC00898.JPG

Feg PA-63 AP9 9mm short
Apparently it's the standard issue sidearm for the Hungaran Military/Police. :confused:
It's the chihuahua of pistols.

I have a USP 9mm, best handgun ever made IMHO

Originally posted by JaxxaJ

Apparently it's the standard issue sidearm for the Hungaran Military/Police. :confused:

Oh, it must be good. :eek:

:p ;)

I probably don't know enough about different guns to recommend them. Took a look at the 20mm gun on a Cobra the other day, that's a good piece of gear. ;)

I'm a fan and owner of a USP. Love the gun but would also consider this the Sig P229 in 357 or 40

http://remtek.com/arms/sig/model/229/229.gif

Sig Sauer's 357 is nice, a buddy of mine has one that he carries in his glovebox. (He is a county mounty)

Originally posted by JaxxaJ

This is a .45 I think, I am pretty sure that they make a .357 for a Desert Eagle, maybe I'm lying.



I know that Israeli Arms makes the Desert Eagle in .50 and .357 and it's quite possible they make a .45 as well! My bro would kill for the DE as well. It's big and mean but too heavy with not enough rounds for me. :) I just watch The Matrix when I need my Desert Eagle fix. If I were getting a gun that size, it would be the Auto 9, a la Robocop. :devil:

Sig is also a good gun that I haven't given a whole lot of interest to (not intentionally). I'll have to check out the P229 when I get home tonight.

Now, if I could only get John to get me the USP tactical with the sound supressor. Mmm... :lol:

As for the 20mm gun on the cobra--I'd love one, unfortunately I'm too damn big to comfortably fit in the Cobra! :) I tried a few years ago at the air show. 6 1/2 feet tall with size 16 shoes needs a bit more adjustment before it accomodates. In regards to that, THANK YOU SUBARU! :D

Glock or usp40. Both good guns.

And since you can know carry concealed in Anchorage and Alaska. I would go with the H@K so that you can carry one in chamber. The glock can do it to but look at the facts. Most cops in USA carry glocks and more are shoot with own gun. To easy to use trust me a six year old can shoot a glock ask Kappa.

As for the sig you have to find the right ammo. They have a feed problem with some ammo. Jamms that is. But still a good gun. The glock and H@K can shoot any ammo and will not jamm.

So hope to see more guns on people out their. No more permits. So go shoot up the town. And have fun.

Ps. Get the H@K.

I was in the British Army for 7 years, spent almost 5 years in N Ireland. I carried a Browning Hi-Power 9mm as my 'sidearm' When the Glock was introduced, we did extensive tests on it, on the ranges. We burried it in sand, brought it out and fired it, checking for stoppages. It passed all tests with flying colors. The Browning jammed a lot...Not good, if you're under fire.!
I'd go for the Glock any day...
Here's a pic of me, scanned from a photo, on patrol in N Ireland, the gun, is whats called an SA80, 5.56 NATO round, plastic and metal, light and accurate, comes standard with a 4X scope....http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/6/web/546000-546999/546973_4.jpg

That's pretty cool. What unit were you with?

I have a SIG 229 40cal. I regularly carried a pistol with me in the past everywhere I go. I started with a 92fs Beretta 9mm, Glock 17 9mm, and then a HK usp 9mm. The most comfortable was my sig. Its compact but not miniature. I would vote for the sig.

well what i run is either a glock 17 or my kimber tle .45 auto. the kimber is a full size auto but they do make a pro carry that has a 4'' barrel while keeping the full size frame. if your going to get a .45 get a 1911 from kimber , there compacts are very accurate and when you use a in the waistband holster it easier to concel it under a jacket. but then again i don't have any trouble with my .45 . as for another glock , you can't go wrong with any of them , i'll be getting another one when i have the cash.

i have an FN FAL and a glock 18 full auto pistol in 9mm

my personal thoughts. ive shot both the glock and the usp, glocks are great, ill never say anything bad about one. but u have one. go for the USP, its a great gun. IMHO

Originally posted by kato
And since you can know carry concealed in Anchorage and Alaska. I would go with the H@K so that you can carry one in chamber. The glock can do it to but look at the facts. Most cops in USA carry glocks and more are shoot with own gun. To easy to use trust me a six year old can shoot a glock ask Kappa.

I understand what you are saying, talking about the Glock "safe action" format (I do own one, remember). It is perfectly safe for accidental discharges (dropped, side glances on the trigger, etc) but if your finger is on the trigger of a chambered Glock, it's one movement away from firing. Of course if your own finger is on the trigger you better have already cleared the fire zone and decided to put a bullet into whatever you're pointing at! Unfortunately the guy that wrestled it away from you probably won't be that courteous! For combat situations (war or police gunfight situations) it's considered the best option.

The H&K, however does have an external safety, but is considered a "quick release" format in its positioning, of course lack of training (and pure stupidity) will prevent someone from shooting it without giving it a little thought.

You bring up a very good point.

Originally posted by shortfuseWRX
i have an FN FAL and a glock 18 full auto pistol in 9mm

I would love to see the Glock 18. I have run tests with it years ago and loved it (it's of course the 9mm, it's the 17 with a fully automatic setting). What did you go through to get one? Military license?

Originally posted by SOOBY
When the Glock was introduced, we did extensive tests on it, on the ranges. We burried it in sand, brought it out and fired it, checking for stoppages. It passed all tests with flying colors. The Browning jammed a lot...Not good, if you're under fire.!
I'd go for the Glock any day...

I've read all about the different tests that Glock went through and passed without any effort. Very reliable weapons. My Glock 17 has a grand total of only 33 parts, all of excellent grade materials. While I haven't seen the same amount of torture testing on the H&K, I have read a few tests that shown they are probably a comparable level of quality that Glock is (that is of course an estimate from less information therefore not necesarily correct).


Originally posted by tribalwrx
if your going to get a .45 get a 1911 from kimber , there compacts are very accurate and when you use a in the waistband holster it easier to concel it under a jacket.

While I respect the long-life and history of the 1911, they've had problems in the past and are actually currently in the middle of a recall. I'd like to have one just to have a 1911 (I've fired an older model and I loved using it but it didn't imprint on me), but I wouldn't want to fully rely on one at all times. Here (http://safety.smith-wesson.com/pages/1911_recall) is some info on the recall.

With the array of artillary, maybe some of us should go to the range and try out some of these.

I shot a kimber and Sig Sauer in the .45 cal this past weekend. I really liked the sig but it had been worked on. All this time I was wanting a Kimber. I think I want the sig.

tha t recall is on the sw1911 not the kimbers. i don't mean to be rude but if your going to buy a 1911 don't get a s&w. the lapd swat teams use kimber 1911's as there duty carry, the only difference between the lapd kimber and the kimber tle i have is the serial numbers. for the money you can't beat a kimber for a 1911, if you want to spend around 2g's then go with a wilson combat or a les baer, otherwise go with a kimber , para, or a colt 1911 series 70 or 80. sorry i'm very partial to the 1911 and glocks all my training has been done with either and never had a problem with either one.

i've got 500 rds of .45 just sitting in my room lets go shooting, i need the trigger time anyhow.

I would love to go to the gun range. I can go next weekend but I'll be in Juneau this weekend.

Originally posted by tribalwrx
tha t recall is on the sw1911 not the kimbers. i don't mean to be rude but if your going to buy a 1911 don't get a s&w. the lapd swat teams use kimber 1911's as there duty carry, the only difference between the lapd kimber and the kimber tle i have is the serial numbers. for the money you can't beat a kimber for a 1911, if you want to spend around 2g's then go with a wilson combat or a les baer, otherwise go with a kimber , para, or a colt 1911 series 70 or 80. sorry i'm very partial to the 1911 and glocks all my training has been done with either and never had a problem with either one.

Haha, good call, I'm sorry about that, Tribal. I have no real interest in the 1911 other than the "I have one of those" aspect, and .40 is the caliber I'm currently interested in, not .45. Anyway, I did see you say Kimber in your first post and it just went right over my head. Again, sorry, man, I have nothing but respect for both the weapon and your preference.

Andrew

do we want to turn this into a shooting mini-meet, the more the merrier. hey no worries orionak, but as for a .40 cal i'd still get a glock , have you thought about one chambered in .357sig from what i've read it has better ballistics than the .40 cal s&w just a thought .

Originally posted by shortfuseWRX
and a glock 18 full auto pistol in 9mm
*cough*airsoft*cough:lol:

actually glock does make a glock 18 that is full auto, anyone seen t3 or matrix reloaded the full auto glock used is real i've seen a demo video at my insructors shop. 30rd mag goes pretty quick:D

sam just got his auto glock green gas whatever bb gun last night:p

yeah, the real auto glocks are pretty nice...don't know much about guns, just know that i like the DE:devil:

Originally posted by WRXnFX1974
I'm a fan and owner of a USP. Love the gun but would also consider this the Sig P229 in 357 or 40


I've been looking at the p229. It's physically the largest weapon, as well as the heaviest. It does seem reliable from the little I've read, but I can't find a ton of info besides the few testimonials I've read on their site. Anyone have any sites that get down and dirty on the details?

For the Glock 18, yes it is there (like I said before, it's the 17 with the auto option). I've fired that and the auto Berretta (which are both in movies quite often any more, the best for the Baretta that I remember is The Big Hit and the Glock is all over). My family has some out-of-country friends and clients (we own a lodge for both hunting and fishing) who can get these things easier than we can here (that is, without obtaining US licenses, but otherwise the same hassle). We've visited them (outside the US) and had the chance to play. The Berretta was fun but sloppy when compared to the Glock. I had an old pre-ban 33 round clip for my Glock(which they bought from me!) and the recoil and grouping on the Glock was (obviously) much more impressive than on the Barretta. I'd love to own one, but it would be for fun over practicality. Also, the Barretta lost points for the queer little fold-down grip that did NOTHING but get in the way. My opinion, of course.

Originally posted by AK_2002_WRX
sam just got his auto glock green gas whatever bb gun last night:p

yeah, the real auto glocks are pretty nice...don't know much about guns, just know that i like the DE:devil: :lol: yeah it is an airsoft gun. its a full auto g18c airsoft pistol. pretty fun. im trying to put a team together if anyone is interested.

Hey, I'm clueless about airsoft stuff... Do they sell little paintballs or something? What do you do as part of a team? I've been looking to get a nice HK MP5 one because it's an HK MP5, and also an Auto9 (Robocop's gun I've mentioned before). But I didn't intend to do anything but shoot the wall or cans or something when I was bored, while sitting on the couch.

Forget the 40 cal and get a G36 glock it is small ,concealable , and is still the awesome man stopper 45 auto..... I have an H&K USB 40 full size and I love it ...but my son has the narrow handle Glock G36 , and it fits your hand really well, but for its size it is very acurate and very controllable. I want one !!:lol:

In terms of pounds of pressure for the size the 10mm and .40 are some of the heaviest hitting non-magnum rounds. Besides, it's where you hit them, not how hard! :lol:

Originally posted by orionak
Besides, it's where you hit them, not how hard! :lol: yah two to the chest and one to the head:D

Originally posted by tribalwrx
yah two to the chest and one to the head:D

:banana:

OK, well I made my decision and took the plunge. I did a bit more research and am happy with my choice. I also took the guns out of storage to snap pics of them, but this snow is probably going to cause me to put them back in until later! :furious: I was still really debating the Glock 23 and H&K .40 Compact. When I got to the store I realized two things...the benefits of HK were now found in the Glock (things like the chin grove for tactical goodies) and that the Glock goodies were now found on the HK (all internal safety, no hammer). There was no real winner in terms of quality, both have passed some impressive tests. The Glock requires slightly (very slightly) less maintanence (5 drops of oil versus 7) but the HK actually field strips easier. Damn, my decision was not getting easier.

Well, let me introduce you to my current group of friends. This doesn't include any of the .38's or .22's in the collection, because I rarely use them.



Let's start with the oldies. This is my Smith & Wesson .45 I mentioned before. It's the 4506. I told you it didn't look as stubby as the pic I showed you before...

http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421477305/0.jpg

Here's the Mountain Gun, .44 magnum. The base of the barrel looks a bit burnt, but it is the lighting, the gun is in perfect shape.

http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421477305/4.jpg


Here's my oldest baby, the Glock. It's an original Glock 17, before porting, before rounded tips, before smaller grips (fits my hand just right) and without those damned finger groves. Shoots like a champ, very accurate and has pre-ban clips (18rnd magazines)

http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421477305/1.jpg




And finally here was my decision:

http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421477305/3.jpg

I chose the original Hechler & Koch Compact USP .40 caliber. Their newest version (same size and caliber) was the Compact 2000 which had the Glockesque internal safeties (pull the trigger, it shoots) and no hammer. For function, it was basically a Glock in H&K clothing. It was almost 100 bucks more expensive, slightly heavier (very slightly) but it just didn't have that feel I was looking for. The original also had one other feature I didn't want to pass up.

The frame, magazine and slide, and every single internal piece are identical to the .357 H&K. Only the barrel is different. For a bit more money I can (and will) get the other barrel (they sell it). Essentially, on range days, I can have two guns in one (obviously this wouldn't work well on a carrying basis!) But so what? The parts on the 2000 are different and this trick doesn't work with it.

I love the feel of it. I ordered new magazine butts to replace the curved ones (you'll see) but they didn't arrive in time and I cancelled them. I was worried that with my larger hands it would become annoying and on range days give my poor little pinky a blister (can't have that!). After messing around with it I beleive it will be fine. The other butts were flush and didn't stick out to support the weapon. I'm getting to like the support.

Anyway, enough talk, I'll show you the gun before you fall asleep. :D

http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421477305/2.jpg

Thanks for all your help!

Andrew

Kel-Tec in 357 Sig. Don't leave home without it...