Originally posted by DarthChicken
(example he actually uses one in his daily driver wrx)

And track driven...

Just spent two days with Phil at the track - it is a shame that his dogbox didn't hold up to it. Get the 6, Phil.

Certainly going to be looking at this. Xede did what I wanted with the WRX, but I am tired of getting multiple cylinder (usually all) misfires at speed (135+mph) in the STi. It has gotten to the point where I don't even bother to slow down I know what it is when that ugly cruise light starts blinking and just clear it after the heat is over. Piggy-backing is worse on the STi ECU than any other ECU I have ever piggy backed on. But at least for the time being I have gotten it mostly stable and don't get hesitation just that annoying CEL.

Sorry about that... I am just trying to balance out the negativity...

Actually to be honest there are bugs here and there... I had a wierd acting Air temp sensor but after I moved the ground it was better.

I am prepared for the air temp changes because I live in a place where it gets from 30 C to - 10 C in one day... I don't really know but there are so many more variances then just the ecu, mechanically sounds car... accurate sensor... good grounds...

Because I know my car has bad grounds... but i'm just to lazy to go through the car.

But to be honest, we are still beta testing here. I never went into this ECU thinking it would be a smooth ride. even with ECUS that have been around for a long time, there are issues. Andrew has been very helpful and helps me tune my car long distance which is very hard. but its down pack...

Some things I dislike very much is the boost and fuel cut... i would advise anyone to avoid it like it will blow up your engine... because thats just too violent for me...

things are not at 100% accuracy. I never expected it to be, but the VSS is off by 8 kms, and some other stock calibration....

the map sensor is off by 2 psi but so are other standalones... etc...

also I would like Phil to come in on these discussions more on the hydra... any reason why he's not in on these much?

it is my understanding that the main reason he is not in on these discussions is because the hydras under question in this thread are not "his" so to speak. He woun't want to support products that he wasn't involved in. Especially ones with such drastically incorrect initial setups as we have seen.

I think it is a testament to his good character that he chimed in at all when people are having trouble. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think anyone has an Element Hydra at this point. Hence the innaccurate and blatently incorrect basemaps / dwell times / temp correction problems, etc.


Todd

What's an "Element Hydra?" He is just the Subaru distributor.

He's not only the subaru disti, but he's also doing the maps. I trust his base maps to be a LOT better than directly from Hydra (no knock at hydra, but Phil specializes in Subarus obviously).

That was why Phil is the sole disti at this point, so they don't have to worry about base maps and tuning support. They build, he tunes and provides support.

I've never heard of him before this.

Phil from Turboxs? You've heard of turboxs right? :D

Originally posted by DarthChicken
Phil from Turboxs? You've heard of turboxs right? :D

Any WRX guys have #'s on their hydra? I'd like to know if you can squeeze more WHP out of the nemesis than you can out of a UTEC/EcuTek combination (which would cost a lot more btw).

phil is not the only subaru distributor I believe he is the exclusive for WRX and STI only. but those are details that the distributor and retailer have to work out...


but I see this totally different... I see no reason why Element and TWE can't come by and offer some insights or opinions on the ecu. they don't need to offer support since we didn't buy it from them, but just some insight would be nice

At this point the hydra could come with a virus installed and labled as a feature but as long as i could drive my car I wouldnt care... seriously, when i was told at the end of april it would be out the 2nd week of may i sold my utec and have been waiting ever since. sux arses.

I just got off the phone with Phil... he still thinks this week he'll have units. There is also a dyno day up in Seattle Washington that he will be at, and I said if I had my unit by then, I would drive up so he would have some visibility of his product.

sorry for the noob question... but im completely new to tuning...

What are Dwell Times?

(this may be answered with my first question, but...)
What do they effect?

ignition dwell is the duration of time that the coil has 12vdc across its primary side. it is during this time that the magnetic field is getting stronger (essentially "charging" the coil).

hth
ken

use it too much and your coilpacks will fry

Originally posted by Timdog1650
Any WRX guys have #'s on their hydra? I'd like to know if you can squeeze more WHP out of the nemesis than you can out of a UTEC/EcuTek combination (which would cost a lot more btw).

why would you be able to? for all intents and purposes it's the same spark energy, timing numbers, boost control and fuel... it's just a different way to set them, with some other/different features here and there.

The only reason I can see for being able to extract more power is if you've been getting knock at tip in. The hydra will let you control the acceleration parameters - ie the enrichment that occurs when you first jump on the throttle, so you can avoid knock.

Example - lets say while driving around with your maf based tuning solution, you realize you get knock at 4350rpm, under the 50% load column. Its not every time, but it does happen. Didn't knock on the dyno at all, and rarely happens on the street, but it does happen. After a week of pulling out your hair, you realize it occurs when you take the car up to 4000rpm gently, and THEN floor it. WAM, knock. So, you have to reduce the timing in that area.

(I've seen this with both ECUTek and UTECs, anything that you can't control the accel parameter on, and you are at the mercy of the stock ECU you might have this issue, ESPECIALLY if you've changed the MAF tube diameter)

That won't happen with the hydra. MAF tubes don't mean anything. It sees boost, and it sees your throttle position. Also, the knock control only pulls a fraction of a degree, or adds just a fraction of fuel when it gets knock. None of the pulling 3-5 degrees of timing, completely hosing you if you're on the track.

This is what a full standalone brings you - full control over parameters that you had no control of before.

I can see the hydra making more power than other EM. My reason for that statement is you get both fuel and timing trims for each cylinder. This will alow you to not have to tune to the worst case cylinder. I think it is John Banks over on scoobynet installed a J&S safegaurd with timing trim for each cylinder he saw ~20hp more with just timing.:eek:

TMS

Darth hit the nail on the head..
I call it transition boost... because at that split second, you get a surge of air.. and timing changes... I hate the Stock STI ecu... ouch..

i agree that individual cylinder control is a "good thing." i believe it was banks who picked up some 10-20hp.

i hope it all comes together, for the sake of the community. competition is a great thing for progress!

ken

.....And EGT would be your tuning parameter for individual cylinder control???

I'm heading in this direction, EGT probe for each exhaust port. Looking at sourcing the bungs right now for welding onto the header.

Omega.com sells an inexpensive 4 input digital gauge ($95) into which I'll plug four exposed thermocouple probes (~$40/probe).

After tuning, I may pass this thing around for others to use to do their tunes. Phil seemed pretty interested in the indi' cylinder data. I have the '04 STi so he won't being tuning those until August.

Any news on this unit are they shipping??

HOK,

How is the tuning going??? Any further info for those of us waiting in the wings???

MB

Any thing on the Nemesis are they shipping?

The tuning is coming VERY well. I was quite surprised at the amount of time I have put into this ECU and have already understood most of its functions. Its actually quite easy... compared to the TEC II this is like playing pac man... From my previous update I have used the auto tune function and it functions as well as can be expected. It does err on the side of rich then slowly goes to the target AFR. response time is ok... but this is from looking at logs which when scrolling may seem like a long time, but I log at 4 times a sec. Most people are amazed how I can hit 14.7 EXACTLY at cruise.. and I tell them its my tuning... (shhhhh). The only other Auto tune function I heard that functions ok is the HKS V pro unit. But I don't really care as long as mine works.

I have worked my way up from 13 psi to 21 psi on 92 octane. I have now 1. run out of injectors and 2. glazed my clutch like a Krispy Kreme Donut. I only tune to 10.2 - 10.4 and already, I am making well past what I have had before. When I ran my 13.4 1/4 mile, my power meter ID read my peak horsepower was 270. After 2 weeks at 21 psi (on the GT30), I have a 328 reading on the power meter id. It felt very good and pulls well. I'm very happy with the car. People that have rode in the car have agreed with the power meter readings however inaccurate they prove to be.

The base maps that come with it will need to be reworked. I would say 50% on the settings whatever year your 2.5 RS is. Fuel maps for me were quite out of tune. I would say 90% of it was changed. (and I am not talking about tweaks) even though both were supposed to be 550 cc injectors. If you purchase this without some sort of wideband tool or with the wideband option you might as well not buy it.

I do find that the logging is not flexible enough. I had a delta dash and sold it next to nothing (hint!!!) and found that to be a great tool. There is no fuel pump voltages on the hydra and I would like to see that. Also I don't see where I could add sensors or auxillary tools. I will have to ask about this (in the logs). And I have noticed some odd ball values in the logs. I don't know if this is my grounding or electrical systems in the car, but the air temp (even though I thought I fixed it will sometimes read very low.) But using the log to tune is great by using the cell reference to the maps. You can pin point exactly where and what needs to be changed. (AFR at what cell and what spark or knock ramp) Its great. There is no guessing game with this.

I was doing well with the air conditioning tune, but the idle is a little bouncy when i turn on the AC. I will go to the target that I set it for on AC, but will also revert back to the original idle target. I little annoying but I think it "may" be my tune. I have tested the car in cold starts from 7 C to 30 C. I still need to tweak, but the car does need a couple more turns to get started and sometimes, 2-3 times. Again maybe my tune. Surprisingly my car idles rock solid and sounds as quiet as the first day I got it.

I havn't worked up the courage to try launch control as I still have a stock tranny. But I hear it is very violent. :D

I know there is a new flash for the ECU and is some upgrades with rpm tracking and scrolling, but I have come from a software development background and I am strongly thinking to just keep my flash since it is working just fine for me. Drivability is always an issue when we tune our own cars, but i'm doing just fine.

i wish i knew what i was doing enough to tune my own car... i will be tinkering with it, and im a fast learner... so maybe i will be able to get the hang of what does what...

HOK did you look at my dwell maps? i sent them to you in PM...

yup... i just needed to take some screen shots of my dwell times...

I just wanted to know if others have password protection on thier outputs settings menu...

this would concern me....

Darth? do you know?

Bump

Not that I've seen. You get a bit of an error when you first download somebody elses map to the unit, but its just saying some things are locked down. Example - on the map I have from Phil, the number of cylinders says
"255". Thats a locked field.

Thats the only locked field that I haven't been able to get to as far as I know. Most things you really don't want to mess with anyway in the PWMs :)

andrew told me: "Also since maps are encrypted, you cannot just go and share maps, as this will lock out the box."

thought you all should know that...

Haven't seen that yet, I've got Phils map, a map I made off of his, the original map off of the unit.... :confused:

Tonight we started to tune. WOW, it's hard. The car dies right after startup unless I give it fuel... which means, more tuning.

-Nead on braybeurn's name.

Can someone please let us know how have you "bolt" it or installed it? Does it comes with a bracket or does it mounts on stock ECU location, etc? Any pictures of one installed?

I recieved my Hydra on the weekend. It took a bit for me to get it installed as there were some issues, but after calling Andrew and having him sort it out with me, it's pretty good. The system is a plug and play, but needs a lot of work to be able to get you going (which I think is probably inherent of any system).

Anyways, in short Andrew has helped me out a lot in figuring out a number of issues and is very knowledgeable.

Braybeurn check your stepper motor settings I bet you are dying because the max vaccum setting is wrong

Can someone please let us know how have you "bolt" it or installed it? Does it comes with a bracket or does it mounts on stock ECU location, etc? Any pictures of one installed?


There are no brakets to speak of. It is a blue box with some wires coming out of it.

OK - So how do you guys do to keep it in place? Velcro, custom bracket?

I have mine stuck between the floor and the kickplate... with all the wiring from the harness and such (my AVC-R, AVCS wires, etc) its not going anywhere.

I'll probably make a bracket for it at some point.

I have mine stuck between the floor and the kickplate... with all the wiring from the harness and such (my AVC-R, AVCS wires, etc) its not going anywhere.

I'll probably make a bracket for it at some point.

I think im going to go to lowes and get some metal to make a something custom. :lol:

guys... just get longer M6 bolts at home depot 45 mm will do. and just use the bolts as backing for the holes on the kickplate...

I also put some foamish stuff under the kickplate for some extra pading.

OK.. I'm having a Idleing problem. I changed the ISC from 20 to 25.. then 30,35,40.. still no change. My car dies when I take my foot off of the gas.

Also.. do you guys give your car a little gas on startup to get it fire up? (i do, it's the only way it will start.) What setting do I need to change?

OK.. I'm having a Idleing problem. I changed the ISC from 20 to 25.. then 30,35,40.. still no change. My car dies when I take my foot off of the gas.

Also.. do you guys give your car a little gas on startup to get it fire up? (i do, it's the only way it will start.) What setting do I need to change?


what is your max vaccum setting? if it is the default 489 change it to about 600

what is your max vaccum setting? if it is the default 489 change it to about 600

Do you mean zero TPS vacuum? if not.. tell me where.. but if so it's set at 561 at 0 rpm.

-Nead on braybeurn's name.

Do you mean zero TPS vacuum? if not.. tell me where.. but if so it's set at 561 at 0 rpm.

-Nead on braybeurn's name.




change it. I changed mine and it didn't make a diff so you have to be quite extreme with some of your guesses :) Just don't blow anything up :P

Thanks

Lemme know if it works

Lemme know if it works

I just looked at the settings.. it's at 651. :/

Should I bump it up more?

I just looked at the settings.. it's at 651. :/

Should I bump it up more?

No you shouldn'y have to. look at the vacc/boost guage on the hydra on the main screen on the top left and see where your car hits when it starts.. that will give you a good idea where to put the number to ... make sure you put your steps back to the origial for now so you dont have too many diff variables to figure out and trouble shoot.

Is the car too rich, too lean?

I'll log a start up real quick for ya. and.. yeah my car is running rich.

ok.. this is weird. I start it up today and it idles. I still have to give it a little gas to get it started though. I'm about to host this log I hook while testing for idle.

http://www.inactivity.org/jon/Data/idle.htm

I can tell by the AFR im running lean when idling, the fuel pulse is wayy too much. well.. at least I can start tuning now. BTW.. i still have my stock injectors in right now till i get my emissions done.

this may be a dumb question, but did you scale the map for your size of injectors?

this may be a dumb question, but did you scale the map for your size of injectors?

yes.

have you tried adjusting the cranking enrichment trim?

nope.. but I got a few runs in using the wide band. It works pretty good.

so everything is working ?

so everything is working ?

yep. We are going to tune a lot more tonight.

have you tried adjusting the cranking enrichment trim?

what is your cranking enrichment trim?? mine takes too many cranks before it fires, so its prolly too rich?

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/images/smilies/discomonkey.gifhttp://forums.nasioc.com/forums/images/smilies/discomonkey.gifhttp://forums.nasioc.com/forums/images/smilies/banana.gif

Two monkeys and a banana for Element Phil... my hydra arrives today! :D

what is your cranking enrichment trim?? mine takes too many cranks before it fires, so its prolly too rich?

Yeah.. I wanna know also.

sorry missed this... I tried adjusting the cranking enrichment but it did not improve the delay in cranking.. it still takes me 4 cranks. I have no idea what it is i don't have the latop with me.. but it still does not act stock even after adjustment...

This is a known thing with the hydra - its not batch fire on start like the stock ECU, its still direct fire. It take about 2-3 seconds to start the car, and that will never be any different until the firmware update Hydra is planning in the future that will allow batch fire at startup and immediately switch over to direct fire.

Thanks... I was thinking it was the ECU but didn;t know exactly what it was.. any thoughts on effects on the starter?

That is has to crank a few more cycles? I doubt it will have any affect at all (batch fire ignition is fairly new in the real world, probably the last 20 years or so)... I was more concerned about my battery than anything. Also, if you think about it, you're actually building some oil pressure before the car starts, so in that regard its probably good for the engine :lol:

Is anyone with the stock rs engine running the hydra? I want to compare maps.

Anyone had issues with a incorrect wideband reading? Mine is at perfect AFs, but the plugs are white, meaning lean :(

Anyone had issues with a incorrect wideband reading? Mine is at perfect AFs, but the plugs are white, meaning lean :(

I was told that some of the 02 sensors in the wideband were not reading right and not to use it as of yet, by andrew. He said he is working on it and to wait till the new software comes out or something.. I can't remember what he said about how he was fixing it. He just told me to hold off on using it for a bit.

I was told that some of the 02 sensors in the wideband were not reading right and not to use it as of yet, by andrew. He said he is working on it and to wait till the new software comes out or something.. I can't remember what he said about how he was fixing it. He just told me to hold off on using it for a bit.
He said it was the guage of wire not giving enough current. But i cant see it being the main problem.... How are ou tuning without the wideband?

alright, i have a few questions...

i finally got my car running again (on the stock computer) after i got it running.. i called andrew to trouble shoot the Hydra... We went though EVERYTHING... and it wouldnt start my car.. so i sent it back, he tested the harness and the ECM.. and everything worked fine.. does anyone have any ideas what could be wrong? The only thing we didnt check was the air temp sensor...

it mounts between the turbo and filter right? and it plugs into the harness on the big plug, middle row, second from the right? (#10 on B134)

alright, i have a few questions...

i finally got my car running again (on the stock computer) after i got it running.. i called andrew to trouble shoot the Hydra... We went though EVERYTHING... and it wouldnt start my car.. so i sent it back, he tested the harness and the ECM.. and everything worked fine.. does anyone have any ideas what could be wrong? The only thing we didnt check was the air temp sensor...

it mounts between the turbo and filter right? and it plugs into the harness on the big plug, middle row, second from the right? (#10 on B134)


It can't be the air temp sensor. I started mine regardless if it was installed or not. Does it crank and start and die or not start at all?

Are you sure you played with the settings properly? There are a lot of things that Andrew can't tell from being long distance. Anyways not sure what it is but if you list your prob in detail mebbe we can help I know it took me FOREVER to get mine running cuz I have almost every problem you can possibly fathom :(

He said it was the guage of wire not giving enough current. But i cant see it being the main problem.... How are ou tuning without the wideband?

I'm still using the wideband. :lol:

edit: I really wish someone would send there map to me to so I could compare it. (btw.. on the stock motor)

It can't be the air temp sensor. I started mine regardless if it was installed or not. Does it crank and start and die or not start at all?

Are you sure you played with the settings properly? There are a lot of things that Andrew can't tell from being long distance. Anyways not sure what it is but if you list your prob in detail mebbe we can help I know it took me FOREVER to get mine running cuz I have almost every problem you can possibly fathom :(

it just wont fire up.... it turns over but never starts... it will on the stock ECU however... but since its running so rich.. it kills my plugs every 5-10 min.. haha.. he said he tested every wire on the harness and it was right... then he put the hydra in his rsx... and it ran it... so he said he has no idea what it could be... im supposed to get it back today.. and if it doesnt start, he said he'll give me a full refund...

and is all that about the air temp sensor correct? mounting location, and the place it plugs into the harness?

it just wont fire up.... it turns over but never starts... it will on the stock ECU however... but since its running so rich.. it kills my plugs every 5-10 min.. haha.. he said he tested every wire on the harness and it was right... then he put the hydra in his rsx... and it ran it... so he said he has no idea what it could be... im supposed to get it back today.. and if it doesnt start, he said he'll give me a full refund...

and is all that about the air temp sensor correct? mounting location, and the place it plugs into the harness?


My car still runs with my air temp sensor not hooked up to anything.

it just wont fire up.... it turns over but never starts... it will on the stock ECU however... but since its running so rich.. it kills my plugs every 5-10 min.. haha.. he said he tested every wire on the harness and it was right... then he put the hydra in his rsx... and it ran it... so he said he has no idea what it could be... im supposed to get it back today.. and if it doesnt start, he said he'll give me a full refund...

and is all that about the air temp sensor correct? mounting location, and the place it plugs into the harness?


Dood. The air temp sensor hook up sounds ok, seriously i don't think it matters because it works off a long term average. mine is on the TMIC, but don't worry about that now. your car won't start because it sounds like its rich if its killing your plugs in 5 minutes. Reduce AF on the idle portion of the map and then reduce some of your cranking enrichment trim. Your post start up map should be ok, but all you gotta do is basically start playing with settings and methodically test each variable to see if it makes a difference

Make sure that your stepper motor settings are right as well. I know my car dies right away if those are not set properly. i.e play with extreme values to test them. Mainly your Max vacc setting in the ISC tab under settings.

Where is Phil from Element? For an expert he doesn't seem to be giving ANY advice to people. I realize some of us never bought from him, but it would be good of him to offer his help. I know it would have saved me tons of time and pain.

So, you guys went around him, bought a unit, can't get it to work, and expect his help? :rolleyes: :lol:

Seriously though... my car started right up, with the default map. I didn't even turn my laptop on, it just fired right up. It was PIG rich, and undrivable, but it would idle. Phil's map was much better, although for my car (frankenstein that it is) I needed to do some work on it.

If it cranks and cranks and cranks... and you're not getting any kind of indication that the car is turning over at all (misfire or otherwise), I'd say you are lean. Rich, normally you'll get a stumbling idle, or at least trying to catch. Try adding some fuel (mabye 1ms of fuel) in the 0,400, and 800rpm zones, in the 160mm to 385mm vacuum zones.

Thats really not a fair statement Darth... When I purchased my Hydra it wasn't even mentioned on this board (as far as vendors go). I remember back then it was this BIG top secret thing that World had to keep underwraps because it was such a big deal... :rolleyes:

I put my down payment down before Element even came out that they were exclusive. This is a community... But I guess I should stop helping people too... maybe I can benefit out of it too.

But to be really honest, the veils behind the hydra are starting to piss me off. its an EMS, simple and plain. There are no magic buttons or easter eggs that you need to find in the system... As far as I'm concerned this EMS is not fit for consumption at this moment... Why... ? one reason. Support... We ain't getting any and Andrew has been a great help but it won't last forever as he is/going to be busy with ALL functions and updates for ALL dealers. I'm VERY surprised that a subaru vendor has said nothing. I don't mean to phone us up or let us email him every day, but sheesh... a word here and there would be great. I will recommend that anyone that wants to get this ECU serious consider the single fact that support is still very limited by a new vendor. To sell more hydras phil should be happy to lend his expertise to all new hydra buyers... why...? look at the post view count on this thread... how many people have considered a hydra based on my posts? I would say quite a few. but if you don't have support... look somewhere else... because its important... very important...

Not happy.

I agree 10000%

i am happy with the EMS and the software, it seems to be easy to use, i like the display, and i like the functions the EMS offers... BUT NO ONE CAN HELP ME! and that is REALLY starting to piss me off... i mean, i understand its new... but the ONLY people i can get help from are Andrew, Dan from Godspeed... and HOK... I haven't heard ANYTHING from phil at Element... i didnt even know they were selling/supporting them... And i was along with HOK, i sent my money a few months after it became available for purchase.... and then patiently waited MONTHS more to recieve the unit.. and have even MORE PATIENTLY waited MONTHS more... to try to get it to run my damn car... and STILL no one can figure out what is going on...

i KNOW its not my car, because it will start on the stock ecu even with the WRX fuel pump and injectors flooding the **** out the engine... but as soon as i plug in the Hydra... i get nothing...

and what really confuses me.. is andrew tested the harness, its ok... plugged the unit into his car.. and it runs... so whats going on here? He said he would refund my money, but thats besides the point... i bought the Hydra, because i wanted the Hydra... (even though i should have went for the LINK...)

oh well.. i guess thats my little rant...

he said he flashed the EMS with the newest upgrade.. which in return requires new software.. which hes also sending... so we'll have to wait and see if anything changes...

if it starts, i have a feeling that he swapped me a new EMS, or a new harness.. and just said it was all good so he wouldnt look bad.. but i guess no one will ever know... and i wouldnt care.. as long as the car starts!

All and all.. andrew has been a great help, and has been very patient with my situation (although, he never did admit that the Hydra blew my... and others... coils.. he refuses to believe it.. oh well). He paid for me to next day air it to him when we figured out it was the EMS... and he paid for it to get shipped back out to me again... and he said that if it still doesnt work.. he'll pay for the shipping BACK to him.. and give me a full refund... That at least makes me happy..

In the end.. i hope the Hydra starts my car...

/rant

So, you guys went around him, bought a unit, can't get it to work, and expect his help? :rolleyes: :lol:

Seriously though... my car started right up, with the default map. I didn't even turn my laptop on, it just fired right up. It was PIG rich, and undrivable, but it would idle. Phil's map was much better, although for my car (frankenstein that it is) I needed to do some work on it.

If it cranks and cranks and cranks... and you're not getting any kind of indication that the car is turning over at all (misfire or otherwise), I'd say you are lean. Rich, normally you'll get a stumbling idle, or at least trying to catch. Try adding some fuel (mabye 1ms of fuel) in the 0,400, and 800rpm zones, in the 160mm to 385mm vacuum zones.


Ya it's true I never bough tit from him, I never knew he was a vendor. But to be honest I have posted more help on this thread than him and me a a couple fo friends figured this system out. All I am saying is it would be nice of him to help other ppl out once in a while if its an obvious solution and not to go around totally out of his way to help everyone. At this point I think there are maybe a couple others aside from Me and Hok who are tuned and running by our own efforts

Ya, It would be nice, but I know if I was Phil I wouldnt be helping out. He has got to be insanely busy right now with the back orders and problems and just over all nightmare of running an aftermarket shop thies days. To help people out would be done in the little to no spare time that exists.

I'd say Phil's in a tight spot. He wants to sell his units. It's a business. But greed is not the issue that I think keeps Phil off of the Hydra threads. I looked at Motec too, but decided against it because there was no support for it in a Subaru. Motec is very similar in function, but it does not come with any pre-installed maps. I'm not ready for that level of responsibility, and responsibiltiy is the issue for Phil. He can't take responsibility for units he didn't sell. Phil is taking some responsibility for my car, or at the very least I am entrusting him with my car. He's not ready to extend responsibility to HOK's (or other's RSs) car.

Hydra does not have any support to speak of and for that reason it has floundered. Motec/Haltech/etc has no support for Suby's but it does offer support in general for it's software and functionality. Their software is more sophisticated than the Hydra as well and so it cost more and the big buck racing teams use it. Unless a tuning guru steps up to map, program, and test Motec/Haltech, I won't touch them because I don't know enough (yet).

The Hydra has been around for a couple of years but went nowhere except with the MR2 crowd. Phil is not in the business of selling or supporting Hydras per say. Phil has made Hydra's accessable to Suby owners. He sells access to his creation that is based on the Hydra, but is more than just a Hydra, it's the Element Hydra.

I think that HOK is incredibly brave to have purchased the Hydra without any real proof that it would work in a Suby. I admire HOK's efforts/skill with the Hydra, but it was/is a very ambitious quest. I think in the long run he will benefit from the similar risks that Phil took by developing Suby maps for the Hydra, and the collective knowledge of our community.

I'm grateful that HOK has shared as much as he has with all of us, and I for one will share back when I get my Element Hydra. Sharing is the essence of these boards, but I don't expect vendors to support a product (in this case the product is the mapping and programming of the Element branded Hydra) that they do not have intimate knowledge of and confidence in.

It would seem Phil is not ready/too busy to sell Element Hydra's for the RS community. In time, I think he will, and the small number of early purchased, non-Element branded Hydra's will probably be supported under a grandfather clause, with future Hydra's used on Subys falling under Phil's exclusive contract. Phil is very generous, but for now, not ready to support what he has not yet mastered for himself.

mmm I think you maybe right bboy... it may be more a point of learning about the ECU then sharing... If I was a tuner and did not know every thing in the box that I had to... then I would not post either... But if there was more visibility and tuning tips from Phil, especially in regards to the Hydra do you think that there would be more sales for him just based on participation and "support". I've always thought that users are what sell the product... not the vendor. especially with high performance products.

Without this support or at least a glimpse of what support is to come I just can't recommend this to people. But we also need documentation... any knowledge database or any updating of whats to come would be nice from any vendor.

But anyways I am ready to send out my excel spreadsheet mapper.. my buddy made the spreadsheet so that I could trace my log on the map cells and know what cells I hit during my runs. This is the third version. I will find webspace for all of you to download. It doesn't look like much and if you don't like it, just delete it. It was just a great tool for me when I was tuning. All it does is enable you to change the cells using excel so you can extrapolate and change a mass of cells. Instead of limited to the hydra software changes of one row or one cell. I still need to type up instructions.

For tweaking I used the hydra since the spreadsheet was not as useful for small changes.

btw masiolli did those guys say your settings were all fine?

how about pre start up stuff like fuel pump priming and electricals were they all fine?

other then it being the maps its very confusing why it won't start.

Nobody seemed to have caught my " :lol: " in my response.... sarcasm is such a lost art :)

Phil will help out where he can, when he can. I can guarantee it, I've known the man in passing for a number of years, and he WILL help when he can. I'm doing everything I can as well to learn the unit, so I can help folks out as well (as is HOK). As was said, its a VERY new unit to Subarus in general, and a lot of learning needs to be done. I'm trying out new things every day, new settings, trying to make the car run as smoothly and seamlessly as possible - thats the fun in these things.

Back to my point - add some fuel, I think you're running lean. Plugs are getting fouled in the stock ECU in 5 minutes - not in the hydra. Add some fuel, keep adding until you get to 4ms of fueling... if that doesn't work, then you went the wrong way :)

DarthChicken:

Can you please e-mail me the software version you have? I have not received my Hydra yet, but I have been "playing" with the software as well. Maybe you can send a base map so I can familiarize with it as well?


HOK: If possible can you e-mail me the spreadsheet as well? Intrigued on how it works.

juliogsr@yahoo.com

Nobody seemed to have caught my " :lol: " in my response.... sarcasm is such a lost art :)

Phil will help out where he can, when he can. I can guarantee it, I've known the man in passing for a number of years, and he WILL help when he can. I'm doing everything I can as well to learn the unit, so I can help folks out as well (as is HOK). As was said, its a VERY new unit to Subarus in general, and a lot of learning needs to be done. I'm trying out new things every day, new settings, trying to make the car run as smoothly and seamlessly as possible - thats the fun in these things.

Back to my point - add some fuel, I think you're running lean. Plugs are getting fouled in the stock ECU in 5 minutes - not in the hydra. Add some fuel, keep adding until you get to 4ms of fueling... if that doesn't work, then you went the wrong way :)

the easiest way to tell if you are cranking rich or lean is try cranking it then pull the plugs. If they are dripping, it's rich.

The Hydra has not been available "for two years." It has been in development for about that long. Andrew blamed my car's harness, not his, over and over until I proved it to him. He built me a new harness and suddenly my mysterious problems went away. After that, it was just an issue of the ecu sucking big time. He also offered to give me my money back. When I tried to take him up on it, he dropped the amount he would pay for it saying it was used. Shadey.... Do a swap and get an Ecutech. I did. My car starts right up, idles, runs smoothly and effeciantly....

SubaFastR - so far you're the exception. ECUtek reflash IMO will only get you so far, the MAF sensor was driving me up a wall. Inability to control throttle pump, inability to control hot start vs. cold start parameters, inability to control SO many things. The Hydra is not for everybody, but if you know how to use it, I find my car is running SMOOTHER with this than it did with my ECUTek reflash. And my ECUtek reflash was done by myself, over days of working on it.

Julio - the map that is in the software download you can get from the mrcontrols.com forumn is pretty good actually. Its a good "learning" map.

As for support - pick up the phone, and give him a call! EVERY time I've called him, he's either answered the phone, or called me back within the day. Just because he doesn't post here doesn't mean he's not available, call him!

(this forum is not the end all)

Well, I've tried to warn as much as possible. I'm done with this ecu and thread. Have fun guys.

suba... can you be more specific about the problems you had with the ECU itself when you got it up and running?

Darth... thats my point... a few pages back people were telling me that support only extends to people that have bought the units from phil... thats fine.. I accept that... but the irony of this situation is that I'm probably phils greatest ally and yours Darth...

If you bought a unit from Phil, you use Phil for support. If you bought one from Andrew, Andrew is your support. Those of us that know the units (HOK, myself, a few others) should help out wherever we can - however those of us that bought the units from Phil can only go so far (ie I can't give you my map for example, as thats Phil's intellectual property, which is what gives him the advantage, and he probably would never talk to me again if I gave his work away).

Subfastr's problems are exactly what Phil is going to be there for. Andrew is a great guy, but he's not a subaru guy. The default WRX map shows it too, its WAY off and doesn't follow normal subaru turbo tuning conventions at all. So, while Subfastr has had some problems, it just drives home the point that Phil is making distributing these things.

If you bought from Andrew, before Phil came along on this thing, I'd suggest giving Phil a call, and see what happens. He realizes that it's up to him AND the market to get the good word out on these things, otherwise there will be a handful of us users, and thats it.

It Started!!!

i got the Hydra back today... got new plugs (again) and it fired right up... well it cranked for a while... but it fired up.. and it idles nice.. and it actually drives preatty smoothly...

i have to get excel on my laptop so i can log some data... i'll get back

:disco: :banana: :devil: :cool: :eek:

congratz! i've been playin with the maps and software all evening... fun stuff, it like playing with legos! lol

well it ran for about a half hour.. then it burnt up another set of plugs

i used autolight.. they have a 3yr warrenty.. so i just keep excanging them... haha.. maybe i should try some better plugs.. then they wont burn up?

i think even with the hydra its running way way too rich

i logged the data.. but didnt have excel... i found my office disk.. installed it.. and went to go on a drive.. and thats when it stalled, and never started back up.. so i have to go get new plugs so i can get a log...

any suggestions? (to get it to not kill the plugs so often.. i have to get it to run for at least 4 hours.. so i can make it to GodSpeed in MI which is a 4 hour drive..)

you could try a step or two of some hotter plugs... that might help keep them from getting so fouled up so quickly. id be more concerned about your rings if you're running that rich... a 4 hour drive to michigan could eat em up.

I looked at Motec too, but decided against it because there was no support for it in a Subaru. Motec is very similar in function, but it does not come with any pre-installed maps.

OT, but I wanted to clarify your statements about Motec support. Crawford Performance is a Motec dealer specializing in Subarus. Motec also makes a p-n-p M800 variant that's compatible with the V7 WRX, complete with base map.

so a FYI guys I got EVRYTHING working now (with the help of imprezakid)even the Hydra based boost in 2.5 weeks. even with having harness wideband and timing setting issues ^^

so a FYI guys I got EVRYTHING working now (with the help of imprezakid)even the Hydra based boost in 2.5 weeks. even with having harness wideband and timing setting issues ^^

good!

Now fix mine! :lol:

Any reason your not using the logger in the hydra, and just reviewing it there? You don't have to download it to excel to review it....

DarthChiken:

I already have that software version, months ago. I would like to get the actual software being shipped with the computers.

DarthChiken:

I already have that software version, months ago. I would like to get the actual software being shipped with the computers.

I just got my unit flashed 2 weeks ago and have the zipped software on my desktop if you want it just PM me w/ email address

-Rob

oh its version 2.12

I just bought a Hydra w/wideband from Phil. The good thing about Phil's setup is he has tuned a bunch of cars and is building a Hydra basemap database. Unfortunately for the RS guys these are WRXs right now. He had the choice of two WRX maps for PE650 injectors, which I didn't look forward to making work correctly on my own. Other than that they are likely tuned much differently than my car so I still have a fair bit of work.

Darth, how did the autotune function work out for you? Did you have any kind of misread afr values? I'm probably going to borrow a UTEC Tuner as well just so I can tell if things are off or not.

I will be trying the injector scaling function this weekend... cut caps!

well.. its back down again...

i thought it fouled out the spark plugs again.. but i put new ones in.. and it still wont start...

i've noticed something.. when the Hydra is connected and i turn the key to "on" it makes a funny clicking sound.. and the check engine light flashes once off then back on real quick... it does not do this on the stock ECU.

i cannot for the life of me figure out what the hell is going on with my car...

the guy at autozone said it could be the thermostat??? what the hell does the t-stat have to do with it starting..

the car is currently sitting in my front yard (i went to get a data log, and it stalled in the street), and it is raining heavily now.. so i cant test to see if im getting spark.. but i will do that as soon as i can...

can anyone think of anything else i should look into? can anyone come up with an explination for the odd clicking when the key is turned to the on position?

I get the quick flash on the CEL as well when I turn mine on. So, thats normal.

The clicking noise though... could that be your boost solenoid perhaps, or your fuel pump? I know, opposite ends of the vehicle, just trying to come up with ideas. I get one click, it sounds like a relay kicking over and thats it.

Send me your map, lemme take a peek.

darthchicken_2000@yahoo.com

If you are hearing a clicking from inside the car it's probably a relay. Does the car run fine on the stock ECU?

it clicks from behind the dash it sounds like.... and it only does the weird click when the hydra is hooked up...

and no the car doesnt run at all on either the stock ecu, or the hydra..

darth.. i'll email the map tomorrow

well.. its back down again...

i thought it fouled out the spark plugs again.. but i put new ones in.. and it still wont start...

i've noticed something.. when the Hydra is connected and i turn the key to "on" it makes a funny clicking sound.. and the check engine light flashes once off then back on real quick... it does not do this on the stock ECU.

i cannot for the life of me figure out what the hell is going on with my car...

the guy at autozone said it could be the thermostat??? what the hell does the t-stat have to do with it starting..

the car is currently sitting in my front yard (i went to get a data log, and it stalled in the street), and it is raining heavily now.. so i cant test to see if im getting spark.. but i will do that as soon as i can...

can anyone think of anything else i should look into? can anyone come up with an explination for the odd clicking when the key is turned to the on position?


It's normal. It does iexactly the same thing on mine. It is a relay. mine also does it when i drive sometimes. You will also notice that same clicking when your check engine light flashes to let you know of misfire or knock. That clicking is the least of your worries.

Where would I go to get my car tuned?.. I was thinking about calling AMS in chi town.

Ron at Axis Tuning has a dyno and isn't very far from you. GRD in Chicago could also probably tune it.

alright.. the car still wont start... i got new plugs, and i've ohmed the coil.. and it reads out fine... but im not getting any spark at the plugs... any suggestions?

Never got your map... but you're saying that the car won't start with the stock ECU either, correct? I doubt its a "hydra" problem then, more generic "not getting spark". Correct?

If thats the case, I would suggest doing everything you can to get the car to start with the stock ECU - its just one less variable.

An idea: for those that purchased the hydra from Andrew, Phil could charge a support fee ($200) bucks to support those individuals. Then Phil could make some money and enrich the Hydra community at large with his knowledge. I am purchasing a unit from phil through one of his vendors and he says he would support me and help me to get it. Every time I called, Phil was there to answer the call. While I am a noob, i new that Phil was adding tremendous value to the hydra. I am a software developer, the analogy is simple, in this situation your are buying the hardware and the software, the hardware is generic and the software is the magic. You can't expect him to give his magic away for free. Pay him something for it! A custom dyno tune by him is $500. But I'm sure he would work something out. And you will be miles ahead of where you are today, and miles ahead than if you were on ecutek or the utec.

An idea: for those that purchased the hydra from Andrew, Phil could charge a support fee ($200) bucks to support those individuals. Then Phil could make some money and enrich the Hydra community at large with his knowledge. I am purchasing a unit from phil through one of his vendors and he says he would support me and help me to get it. Every time I called, Phil was there to answer the call. While I am a noob, i new that Phil was adding tremendous value to the hydra. I am a software developer, the analogy is simple, in this situation your are buying the hardware and the software, the hardware is generic and the software is the magic. You can't expect him to give his magic away for free. Pay him something for it! A custom dyno tune by him is $500. But I'm sure he would work something out. And you will be miles ahead of where you are today, and miles ahead than if you were on ecutek or the utec.

Why would someone pay him $200 dollars to ask him 2 or 3 questions? I was new to tuning, but I think he could have sped up the process for stupid little questions for a lot of ppl. Perhaps someone should make a FAQ page for getting started. Tuning is still ultimately up to the buyer who never bought from Phil and he can't really help too much on that. BTW I bought my unit from Andrew and am pretty much fully tuned now, even running with the Hydra boost controller functions

Ok, I understand that. I was thinking you were wanting a map from him so it wouldn't be such an ordeal to get your car up and running. If it was a quick couple of questions and not like 30 minutes on the phone I understand. But if you wanted access to all the maps and full support, given all the time you've spent so far, wouldn't $200 be worth it?

Never got your map... but you're saying that the car won't start with the stock ECU either, correct? I doubt its a "hydra" problem then, more generic "not getting spark". Correct?

If thats the case, I would suggest doing everything you can to get the car to start with the stock ECU - its just one less variable.

opps! forgot about that... I'll PM you with a link to it..

but yeah.. its a general problem anyways... it was running on the hydra... then it just stalled out.. and wouldnt start back up.. i thought it was the plugs... but i put new ones in.. and still no spark...

a friend said it might be arc'ing somewhere prior to where it should be... due to a small hole in a rubber seal somewhere... he said if this was happening.. it would OHM out perfect.. but no spark would get to the plugs.. is this possible? and if so.. how can i check for this?

Ok, I understand that. I was thinking you were wanting a map from him so it wouldn't be such an ordeal to get your car up and running. If it was a quick couple of questions and not like 30 minutes on the phone I understand. But if you wanted access to all the maps and full support, given all the time you've spent so far, wouldn't $200 be worth it?


That 200 bucks could be used for dyno time...ect. I feel they sould give out support for there product no matter what.

I think whoever you bought the unit from should give support, whether thats Element or Hydra direct. Asking anything more than that is asking for a free service, and everybody's gotta eat :)

Well as a consumer I understand your frustration, but I agree with Darth, if you want full support from a value/added distributor then you should pay for that value added. To think that any distributor should just support you freely is just not reasonable. Phil is very reasonable.

This is funny ... does this mean i don't need to eat? why should I help anyone then... this was my entire point... for Phil he needs to eat... for me what?... I'm just a goof who should help...?

I have ZERO problems with the unit... I stuck it in tuned it and ran... I am now on modded injectors and it runs like a champ.. with the help of other nasiocers I find my bad grounds and various mech problems.. should I have paid 8complex every time I asked him a question…? I would owe him 5000 bucks… A post here and there is not support... This is a resource database... I post to try to get people started without calling their vendor every 2 days. General Tuning isn't proprietary. What are the secrets of tuning? It isn’t fuel or timing… that’s BS, its simple you need a knock sensor, a wideband and an EGT gauge. Enough fuel, good timing and lots of air…

To me the only difficult items that no one ever talks about are the settings for drivability. Max vacuum, idle speeds, self tune rates, cranking enrichment and etc. (IE starting the car.) and this is what is being kept under wraps…tuning for power is probably the easiest thing you will learn about tuning. If you guys haven’t noticed the documentation sucks big time.. but I believe that hydra is putting the onus on dealers to do car specific tuning guides.

I don’t think many people understand what I am saying… I appreciate the suggestions, but to charge money to someone that has a stalling car to simply change the max vacuum is crazy…

There have been very few posts that provide some technical merit. They are all muddled in marketing foreplay. I strongly believe there is a purposeful intention to withhold knowledge here.. and I guess that just plain sucks, but I guess I am SOL. Its funny that the more you withhold the knowledge to this ecu the less it will sell. I eagerly await when the novelty dies down.

By the way I just want to share one more thing, maybe my last. The check engine light at this point in time for the hydra will only blink or stay on for TWO events.

Knock (blink once) or too lean (blink 4 times).

It will blink when you do not have the laptop connected. It will blink and stay on if you do not have the laptop connected. Apparently the code will show it self after you connect to the hydra. IT WILL NOT blink on misfires.

I have not tested this nor will I try too for obvious reasons, but this comes straight from the horse’s mouth (mfger).

So far, I have not seen any technical questions (ie how does the proportional affect decel, or something like that). I would be more than willing to help out, and I've been looking for folks to help - heck even as far as saying send me your map, maybe I can help out (not you HOK, but masiolli).

"My car won't start" is SO general.... How is anybody going to help you with a question like that, without getting on the phone with you, or being there in person to check stuff over with you.

"My idle fluctutes up and down" is a much better question. Its still pretty general, but if you say "my idle fluctuates up and down, my A/F goes from 11:1 to 16:1, only when the fan kicks on, what can I do about it" its becomes obvious to those of us that have the units, and we can help.

See the difference?

(I'm just a goof that's trying to help)

I really don't know what you're complaining about, the quality of information available for a relatively new ecu, or that you want to Phil to give you more information about setting this stuff up for free. Eventually information will be up at wrkhackers. The cutting edge is often the bleeding edge. I think you have a unrealistic expectations of what you purchased. You expected a certain level of support from the vendor, you turned to the community to find that support lacking, and now you want other vendors to support you. Even through all that you are running and everything is great. Even though you've taken a different path than the one I am taking, you have become much more involved and aware of how it everything works and have aquired much more of the nuances of the system. This is a little like Zen and the art of Motorcycle Mechanics.

I think you really need to take a moment and realize if you're interested in results now you can pay for it now, or you can learn all of these things when you discover it or as the collective knowledge of the community increases. If you are that unsatisfied I think you could probably start the proliferation of this information at wrxhackers rather than exhaust your energy complaining. At least you will be contributing to the collective wisdom which you wish vendors and forum goers alike should be doing. Go ahead and lead by example.

are you really trying to tell me that phil is not avoiding THIS thread... common... look at what Soon2begreat's comments... thats got to be the most realistic and accurate statement i've seen regarding the hydras introduction to this community. Do you remember when the Utec came out... TURBOXS SPENT HOURS on this board to properly market and support not only the product but promote it... This is part of my confusion... If you read between the lines of my posts.. I'm actually the big cheerleader for this thing... I do agree with you Darth... wholeheartedly actually.

I hope it does end up on wrxhackers.

One thing I learned last week while troubleshooting a car is that if the ECU does not see the crank position sensor, it will not fire the coils. I doubt the Hydra is like this but just something to keep in mind when you're not getting any spark and can't figure out why. I'd love to help you get it started but I'd need the car here to do it.

No ECU that I'm aware of will run without a crank position signal/trigger.

It has come to our attention that there are a few consumers that are having problems setting up there ECUs. Consumers need to understand that they are buying a stand alone programmeable Engine management system and if they are having problems setting them up, they should be bringing their car to their Nearest Hydra Dealer to have the car set up. All our hydra dealers will be qualified to get you up and running and should be paid for their expertise and work. Every car has a slightly different setup and therefore may need minor tweaking here and there. If you like to know who is your nearest dealer, email us and we will forward you the information. We will be updating our website soon with a list of our dealers and a FAQ section, soon as we catch up with backorders. If you are having problems try emailing us and we will try to get back to you as soon as we can. We may even add your questions on our upcoming FAQ section when we set it up. It seems that most people are having problems with the car starting due to running to rich on cranking.

Consumers need to understand that they are buying a stand alone programmeable Engine management system and if they are having problems setting them up, they should be bringing their car to their Nearest Hydra Dealer to have the car set up.

Period. End of story.

Consumers are playing in the big leagues when they get a full standalone, they can't expect to have their hand held through the whole process. If there's a solid user base established, then often you can get help from experienced users. But don't buy into a BRAND NEW product with no user base when you don't know what you're getting into, and expect the few professional tuners out there, who have already devoted a great deal of their time and resources to figuring it out, to support you.

It has come to our attention that there are a few consumers that are having problems setting up there ECUs. Consumers need to understand that they are buying a stand alone programmeable Engine management system and if they are having problems setting them up, they should be bringing their car to their Nearest Hydra Dealer to have the car set up. All our hydra dealers will be qualified to get you up and running and should be paid for their expertise and work. Every car has a slightly different setup and therefore may need minor tweaking here and there. If you like to know who is your nearest dealer, email us and we will forward you the information. We will be updating our website soon with a list of our dealers and a FAQ section, soon as we catch up with backorders. If you are having problems try emailing us and we will try to get back to you as soon as we can. We may even add your questions on our upcoming FAQ section when we set it up. It seems that most people are having problems with the car starting due to running to rich on cranking.


I'm in st. louis.. I would like to get my car tuned. Where is the nearest hydra dealer that is QUALIFIED to tune my car.

If anyone says.. you live near Ron. Ron at Axis hasn't even seen what the hydra software looks like, therefor, he is not very qualified to tune my car.

I think that www.godspeedinc.com is the nearest to you. They are a Hydra dealer with a dynapack. There are probably other Hydra dealers but Godspeed has tuned a lot of subarus. I'd says they are the "nearest hydra dealer that is QUALIFIED to tune your car" The companies on the list below are Hydra dealers and tuners.

Godspeed Inc
22783 Heslip
Novi, MI 48375
248.305.8141

XX Tuning
58a Maple Street
Wethersfield CT 06109
860.513.1051

Element Tuning
Gaithersburg, Md
240.246.0302

Godspeed will be the closest to you as an Authorized Hydra Dealer.

Thanks :D

hey nead... if you decide to go to godspeed.. we should make a date that we can both go at the same time.. this way we can have a travel buddy and maybe get a discount for a small group thing...

hopefully i will be able to drive my car up there, and not have to tow it on a trailor.. :(

hey nead... if you decide to go to godspeed.. we should make a date that we can both go at the same time.. this way we can have a travel buddy and maybe get a discount for a small group thing...

hopefully i will be able to drive my car up there, and not have to tow it on a trailor.. :(


I'm down.. IM me on AIM.

BTW.. I fixed my idle problem and my car is running better then ever. Thanks for everyone that was helping me out.

Hey everyone.. just wanted to chime in with my update. My problem was with the crank posistion sensor, for whatever reason the person i bought the car off of cut the wire, and put a connector on it to put it back together... well i must have knocked it loose or something... but that was it.. it now starts and runs on the hydra. Idles, and runs fairly well on the base map too! Now i just have to take the hike to GodSpeed to get it tuned... i'll keep you guys updated

Hey everyone.. just wanted to chime in with my update. My problem was with the crank posistion sensor, for whatever reason the person i bought the car off of cut the wire, and put a connector on it to put it back together... well i must have knocked it loose or something... but that was it.. it now starts and runs on the hydra. Idles, and runs fairly well on the base map too! Now i just have to take the hike to GodSpeed to get it tuned... i'll keep you guys updated

one :banana: for you my friend.

my god never woulda thought of that....

Has anyone disconnected the wideband yet and just let the ecu control the car on it's own?

All you have to do is shut off learning for this to happen (I assume you mean let the narrowband 02 sensor take care of the short term).

Personally, I've noticed the biggest way to wear out an o2 sensor is to handle it a bunch, ie pull it out of the car, put it back in, take it back out, etc..... you get a LOT less hours out of it if you do this.

well.. i dont have the wideband o2 sensor at all.. and mine runs fine..

does anyone know if the hydra uses the stock o2 sensors? As of right now they are not pluged in.

We normally use the scondary narrowband O2 sensors for the 99- up RS and the 02- upwrx models since the primary is usually a Bosch Wideband. They are only used for closed loop under cruise conditions and idle for better fuel economy. Parameters can be set in Min and Max rpm and also by Vacuum limit.

Does the hydra use the ISC at all?.. mine is not hooked up to my intake and it doesn't seem to mess with my car's idle. If not, I can unplug it and close the inlet of the ISC.

I would think if the Hydra utilizes the AVCS in an STI, it would reference the ISC. I'm no expert.

We normally use the scondary narrowband O2 sensors for the 99- up RS and the 02- upwrx models since the primary is usually a Bosch Wideband. They are only used for closed loop under cruise conditions and idle for better fuel economy. Parameters can be set in Min and Max rpm and also by Vacuum limit.
Vacuum limit as well? I haven't seen that parameter, where is it? Is there a new rev software that has this, that I need to get from you guys?

If you mean ISC as in Idle control solenoid, yes it is used for idle control:

Tha vacuum limit is under :
Select - Control 3 - Closed loop limit.

This is 2d map with Vacuum against RPM. Closed loop operation will only work under the three parameters, lower and upper RPM limits and this Closed loop limit. Closed loop operates with values higher than the values entered in this map. If you have for instance 200mmhg across the rpm range, closed loop will only work if vacuum is >200mmhg.

Excellent, thanks!

I've been getting comfortable with the software and this is one incredibly powerful ECU, wow! We can do some really fun things with it. Can't wait to try out the EVO version! Very easy to learn how to use. It is a bit slow to tune as you have to fill in the cells one by one but the autotune is a Godsend (no pun intended) to quicken this procedure up. Make sure you guys get the wideband. At the price, it's a no brainer.

...the autotune is a Godsend

:lol:

It is a bit slow to tune as you have to fill in the cells one by one

That is the only thing I don't like about the software. I took me about 15 min to change the target AFR table and my finger tips were almost numb.
:lol: :lol:

But... you do learn after a while when you can use the copy function. My AFR target table has the same targets at 1600rpm as it does at 8300rpm for example, with few exceptions :)

I've used it like that, but it sure would be nice to click and drag the mouse over an area to select a block. Then enter a value.

Does any one have a fuel map for a
2000 2.5 rs with
t3/t4 @ 8psi
550cc injectors

or any suggestions
i have terrible hesitation when getting on and off throttle
with the car not in gear.

Thanks

no one can help?

If its hesitating at slight throttle, the following should fix the problem. I'm guessing you have a WB. If not spend the money and upgrade to the WB with the autotune feature, its awesome.

Turn off the closed loop fueling and tune those areas to around 14 -14.2 AFR. You want it a bit rich so you are forcing the ecu to pull fuel and not add any. Make sure that all of the surronding areas make a smooth transition. Turn the closed loop fueling back on and it should be smoother.

Later,
Corey

what are you pump throttle fuel trims and what is your ISC settings?

It has come to our attention that there are a few consumers that are having problems setting up there ECUs. Consumers need to understand that they are buying a stand alone programmeable Engine management system and if they are having problems setting them up, they should be bringing their car to their Nearest Hydra Dealer to have the car set up. All our hydra dealers will be qualified to get you up and running and should be paid for their expertise and work. Every car has a slightly different setup and therefore may need minor tweaking here and there. If you like to know who is your nearest dealer, email us and we will forward you the information. We will be updating our website soon with a list of our dealers and a FAQ section, soon as we catch up with backorders. If you are having problems try emailing us and we will try to get back to you as soon as we can. We may even add your questions on our upcoming FAQ section when we set it up. It seems that most people are having problems with the car starting due to running to rich on cranking.

here are no shops in my area that i would trust with something as important as initial setup of my EMS. Link it is i guess.

here are no shops in my area that i would trust with something as important as initial setup of my EMS. Link it is i guess.
If you buy a Hydra from Element Tuning or one of his dealers, the hard work is already done. There are a few things that need to be fine tuned during the initial setup, but you'll find easy to understand directions on Element Tuning's web site .
Element Tuning (http://www.elementtuning.com) If you don't understand the online instructions you can contact Phil and he will help you out.
Why do you feel comfortable letting someone local tune a Link but not a Hydra? Prior to the Hydra the only tuning experience I had was with the Utec and theS-AFC. The transition from piggy back to standalone was fairly easy with help from Phil. The instruction manual that comes with the Hydra is "four thumbs down" and that is why you'll find setup and tuning info at Element's website.

The Link is cake to tune while the Hydra is a joke... one cell at at time.

It's not to bad, but I would to see a block select of some sort. I believe that it will be in a future software release. The copy function is not the best, but it can be helpful once you learn how to use it. Also, I have never tuned a link but I think the Hydra is easy to tune and the autotune makes it that much easier.

Does any one have a fuel map for a
2000 2.5 rs with
t3/t4 @ 8psi
550cc injectors

or any suggestions
i have terrible hesitation when getting on and off throttle
with the car not in gear.

Thanks


You should get a WB O2. My guess is that you are running lean, mine did that and i richened it up and it's fine. Conversely it could be too rich too lol

Anyways I like my hydra. It's great

I've had both... I've actually owned two links. They are a LOT buggier to setup, you can never run 14.7 on idle, everything on it is an on/off switch, or has a high/low point (and assumes a straight line between the two points).

The hydra is like a LINK, but its SO much more advanced. Everything a LINK can do, a hydra can do better IMO. Its not like you can add fuel to large sections on a LINK either, you have to type the information in them as well. You want to add fuel over the entire map, you either change the fuel master on the link, or add % fuel to the entire map on the hydra. Its all the same.

(the hydra is more painful because its more granular. More granularity is a good thing though)

I have a WB already, i have tried the autotune function w/ no noticeable difference perhaps I my just not be using the function correctly? The AFR at idle is okay about 14.5 to 15.2 but once i tap the gas to engage the clutch I can hear it trying to get more air than it will stall or hesitate or both. I think its to rich or it has to steep of a fuel increase as the load and rpm change well i guess thats one in the same.
Thanks

what are you pump throttle fuel trims and what is your ISC settings?


again....

Don't use the autotune at idle, do it manually. I only use the auto past 2000 RPM. Make it 14-14.2AFR at idle . It sounds like you problem is the throttle pump. HOK will probably be able to help you in that area. I haven't had to change mine from the settings that Phil shipped it with.

alright.. out of no where my car starting stalling when i come to a stop after cruising (just normal paced driving)

i got a log of the data right before the stall.. but my laptop is old and doesnt have a floppy drive or internet connection.. so i have no way to post it.. but heres what i found:

When i let off the gas.. the Duty Cycle starts jumping around:

RPM:______Duty Cycle:___Fuel Pulse:___Vacuum:___Advance:
1050--------3.2------------2.9-----------348--------16
800---------2.4------------3.2-----------330--------16
2100--------6.8------------3.2-----------348--------21
2700--------9.2------------3.2-----------348--------24
2750--------10------------3.5-----------321---------24
2750--------9.2------------2.9-----------396--------23
2800--------10------------3.5-----------318---------25
2850--------10.4----------3.5-----------327---------25
1150--------3.6-----------3.5-----------330---------16
1600--------8-------------5.1-----------261---------20
700---------2.4-----------3.2-----------309---------12
0------------0------------5.4------------114---------10
---------------------STALLED----------------------------

The a/f ratio stays constant at 14.7-14.8

your vacuum looks really strange to me... a little low... also the fuel pulse jumps to 5.1 in the last feww rows... can you go to this data row and tell me your x y cell reference and then go to your map and tell me what value you have in that cell...

also what size injectors are those... the ms seem high ...

btw i would urge all those starting from an untuned base map (ie one you just got in a the mail) to stop using auto tune... no matter how well it functions you should not depend on it... this will also allow you to leanr about the system...

Bump for new info? :D

Been studying up on the Hydra as a candidate for em. Is it true you lose cruise control with it ? I still take road trips and that feature is a make or break kinda thing. Just wondering if anyone knew as I haven't found it in all my searching.

Sorry no cruise control. No OBD-II Compliance. Sequential vs Batch mode means it takes 3 seconds longer to start up.

Sorry no cruise control. No OBD-II Compliance. Sequential vs Batch mode means it takes 3 seconds longer to start up.

Ya, but isn't it true the Phil is/will be working towards getting the cruise functional again? My belief was that this wouldn't work at initial shipment time, but that it would eventually. Cruise is something important for some of us.

offset

It is my understanding that the cruise control operates with Hydra-equipped WRXs; only the mighty STi loses cruise.

Its not like you can add fuel to large sections on a LINK either, you have to type the information in them as well.

Well, if this is real a pain I could create a little helper program that will copy cells from excel into the hydra software or even allow you to put in a formula so that you can apply the formula to whatever cells you would like to change. I don't think it would be that hard.

unless teh hydra does funny things with teh VSS signal there is no reason it should effect the cruise in cars that have a mechanical throttle linkage - I suspect teh reason the STi has a problem would be due to teh drive by wire throttle, hence the cruise would be more integrated with the ECU.