Now that utec is out for STi, anyone have any idea when Prodrive will release their Performance package for the STi. And since we can only speculate, how do you think the ecutek with TBE etc. will comapre to Prodrives offering?

i think the more appropriate answer is: who cares? not to offend or attack anyone, but the prodrive packages have never shown themselves to be that great...

they are currently testing the cars on the east coast to make sure they run ok in all climates. I imagine they will be out soon after the ecutek is released since that is what they are using for the reflash.

Dlowman - do you have that info on solid sources? Not all doubting your word, but you got me psyched with that statement! Any further info as far as possible release dates or even an ETA? (I've heard the same as everyone else - sometime in May, yada yada yada). TIA senor!

Stu

Originally posted by happasaiyan
i think the more appropriate answer is: who cares? not to offend or attack anyone, but the prodrive packages have never shown themselves to be that great...

:lol:

Have you driven one? Peak horsepower does not make a great driver's car... torque and response do. The PPP3 on the WRX is a blast. 19psi made in a hurry is a convincing argument from the driver's seat. :D

Originally posted by happasaiyan
i think the more appropriate answer is: who cares? not to offend or attack anyone, but the prodrive packages have never shown themselves to be that great...

:huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh:

The prodrive testing their cars was mentioned on here in another thread. Came straight from prodrive.

Originally posted by happasaiyan
i think the more appropriate answer is: who cares? not to offend or attack anyone, but the prodrive packages have never shown themselves to be that great...

+1

Based on their prior track records in regards to price and performance with the PPP on the 2.0 WRX I wouldn't even consider their performance products for the STI. I've seen a couple of WRX PPP owner cry themselves home when their $3,000++ PPP was making less power than my <$1000 Cobb AccessECU+HKS downpipe setup. :lol:

The AccessECU was just as smooth and drivable as the PPP package.

What's your gas mileage like? How do you think it will be running in 60,000 miles?

annnd uh what would the utec comming out have to do with the the ppps

now if the ecutek was released..

Originally posted by Porter
What's your gas mileage like? How do you think it will be running in 60,000 miles?

The gas mileage assuming we're comparing normal driving was the same or very close to the stock ECU. I sold the AccessECU car around 38k and the car now is nearing 60k and owner hasn't had a single problem and the engine is pulling strong and healthy.

I'm not flaming the PPP (hell, I own a Prodrive axleback) but they have been less than being impressive and this is especially so considering the price. The quality of the parts isn't exactly what you would expect paying premium top dollar.

Essogas fellow Canadian writing,I'm very interested in PPP's as well.Do you have a sorce to purchase Prodrive in the GTO area?

Originally posted by happasaiyan
i think the more appropriate answer is: who cares? not to offend or attack anyone, but the prodrive packages have never shown themselves to be that great... I think we are losing him......give him 50whp stat.:lol: :lol:

Originally posted by Famink
I think we are losing him......give him 50whp stat.:lol: :lol:


in the order of a UTEC installed...TONIGHT! :)

it'll be nice for the different options

but since they were a disappointment on the WRX, I'll probably go another route

Originally posted by Thumper23
it'll be nice for the different options

but since they were a disappointment on the WRX, I'll probably go another route

I'd wait and see before you count your chickens. :devil:

Originally posted by happasaiyan
i think the more appropriate answer is: who cares? not to offend or attack anyone, but the prodrive packages have never shown themselves to be that great...

Well, don't judge before it's out. With Prodrive I know I'm pretty much gauranteed a system that will fit, work properly and have no possible side effects in the long term, even if that means sacrificing a few HP. :disco:

RHS, you can get Prodrive products from speedstar racing. They have by far the best prices here in TO.

Originally posted by Porter
I'd wait and see before you count your chickens. :devil:

don't worry, I got nothing but time on my hands:p

Originally posted by essogas
Well, don't judge before it's out. With Prodrive I know I'm pretty much gauranteed a system that will fit, work properly and have no possible side effects in the long term, even if that means sacrificing a few HP. :disco:

RHS, you can get Prodrive products from speedstar racing. They have by far the best prices here in TO.

I honestly would of thought the same thing about the Prodrive products until I saw this setup tested at a local dyno day in a shop that sells and installs ECUTEK and PPP products. The PPP3 dynoed at 198HP with 17psi of boost and 100% injector duty cycle. In the same vehicle on the same day with just the ECU changed out to a base ECUTEK map the car dynoed at 218HP with 14psi of boost at 84% duty cycle. The shop ended up eating the ECUTEK license because the customer was pissed after spending the money with the PPP3.

That didn't look very safe to me. :eek:

If the kit was only making 17psi, it wasn't installed correctly. Period.

You're telling me that that PPP3 is suppose to by design making more than 17psi with the stock TD04 and stock fuel system? You did catch the part about 100% IDCs, right? You did catch that with a more reasonable map the car made much more power with only 14psi and 84% IDCs? There's endless amounts of data showing that the setup would be way beyond the mechanical capabilties of the stock turbo and/or fuel system in a safe and/or reasonable manner.

Yes, and I'm telling you there was something wrong with the setup on that car. Some cars run differently with the same reflash, it depends on the vehicle and the build date. If there was a running problem with the car the vendor should have contacted Prodrive and resolved it. They're amazingly responsive to such things.

You're missing my point. I'm not fixating on the fact the car was down on power. I'm pointing out that like you're suggesting the PPP3 should be running 19psi which clearly isn't a safe setup regardless of all other factors involved.

http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=154151

TD04 map, we see that peak efficiency is 76%. The area enclosed by the 76% line includes all of the area in which the turbo is operating at peak efficiency. That said, the most you can get out of the TD04 at peak efficiency is about 0.9bar of pressure and 225 CFM of flow.

That said, you can push the turbos out of peak efficiency range. You'll heat up the air quite a bit as you move farther out on the maps though.

One last thing youc an tell from the maps is what the turbo is capable of at certain rpms. If you follow the rpm lines across the map, they show the exact CFM for a certain pressure at a certain rpm. For example, on the TD04 map, there is a point included that shows that with the turbo spinning at 150,000rpm, the turbo will push out 360CFM at 1.0bar of pressure. This also puts it in the 60-65% efficiency range. (bad)

I'm not saying the kit isn't capable of making power but based on the information your giving the Prodrive kit is on the bottom of pile in regards to being safe or effiecient when compared to the other tuner staged kits available such as Vishnu or Cobb. This fact(efficency) alone seems to indicate why the package is down on power a bit and not that it's a conservative or safe tune.

I'm certainly not flaming you or Prodrive. I just feel that facts speak for themselves in regards to the PPP. It's possible that Prodrive over time revised the map and have made it much more reasonable but they aren't doing that if it's still running 19psi. ;)

Sure.


Your opinion of what's safe and what's not....


versus hundreds of hours of R&D by the most advanced motorsport engineering facility on the planet.



Yep, I bet you've really got them there! :rolleyes: :lol:


I'm not trying to be argumentative either... just trying to keep some sanity in the discussion. Do you really think the kits would be offered with a warranty in the UK if they were unsafe??

What seems more logical..... spending more on the PPP, boosting to high levels, running the injectors to full duty.... FOR LESS POWER. Or doing the ECUTEK with the engine at less strain with less boost, 84% cylcle duty on the injectors.....FOR MORE POWER. Don't think the engine will enjoy spending its time at 19 psi for long. 14 would be adequate and hey... more power... No argument there.

some of you guys really have no reading comprehension, do you?

you are arguing about one specific WRX, which sounds like the might have been something wrong with that car

anyways, everyone keep saying the same thing:banana:

Originally posted by happasaiyan
i think the more appropriate answer is: who cares? not to offend or attack anyone, but the prodrive packages have never shown themselves to be that great...

Prodrive packages have one advantage: the name.

If you were going to buy a used STI, which scenario would scare you less:

a. STI with PPP professionally installed and tuned
b. STI with modifications by "Joe-Bob's Tunning Shop"

I think (a) is more appealing to a majority of the population. I am not bashing any of the other options, but the Prodrive name carries some weight with people. It is up to you to decide if the name is worth the extra money.

Yes there something to be said about having a name and a reputation. But there is also something to be said about ripping people off because you have a name and a reputation. They're offering a reflash, turbo back and a fuel pump for their package. If that's all they're offering for three grand plus, all but the biggest fanboys will be passing on this.

Originally posted by wrx~god
What seems more logical..... spending more on the PPP, boosting to high levels, running the injectors to full duty.... FOR LESS POWER.

So you are basically implying they (prodrive) are unsafe and don't know what they are doing. Hmmm. If this is the case, why isn't "Joe Bob's" or Cobb or whoever, tuning shop have the responsibility for the Subaru WRC team and not Prodrive? Most of the time all I read on these baords is problems and minor adjustments that need to be made with these other systems.

Originally posted by essogas
So you are basically implying they (prodrive) are unsafe and don't know what they are doing. Hmmm. If this is the case, why isn't "Joe Bob's" or Cobb or whoever, tuning shop have the responsibility for the Subaru WRC team and not Prodrive? Most of the time all I read on these baords is problems and minor adjustments that need to be made with these other systems.


exactly, this sounds like a case of an improper install and all the critics are using it to bash Prodrive

don't get me wrong, I was disappointed in the results people were getting with the PPP's, but I had already gone another way before they even came out

but I would've probably went Prodrive at the time if I hadn't already started

What I don't get with prodrive is how can they expect to charge the premium over other tuners packages in the U.S., while we don't get the same service as our U.K. counterparts. Namely in the fact that the U.K. cars with the PPP get factory warranty. I must admit if my warranty wasn't put in jeopardy with the PPP, it would be a lot more appealing to me and alot of other owners.

C'mon Prodrive you guys have to find a way to convince SOA that its a win-win situation to cover your performance products. Look at Dinan, their products cost an arm and a leg but bmw owners are willing to pay cuz they get to keep their warranties, and bmw in turn makes money hawking and installing their products.

Who knows exactly when Prodrive will release their STi ppps but the word is probably this summer. The stage 3 may be about $3000(they said it will be expensive) but we can at least be sure the products are well tested. Their products are designed to be reliale and powerful and this requires that they sacrifice some power in order to be able to accomidate people in all climates safely. They say that they may even offer internal engine parts for the WRX and STi in the future and are working on what I believe is a 300-320 wheel (xs engeneering dyno) stage 4 kit for the WRX. They are working on many products as well as developing parts and concept cars for O.E. manufactures, and designing wheels and suspension solutions for all types of cars. In other words they stay busy, but the parts will come. This all what I know from their mouths so I believe it all to be accurate. However, I do like and respect their parts although I may not end up purchasing them because their prices tend to be higher.