My bone stock STi w/15,000 miles had the UTEC installed on it at TurboXS today. Just a couple things note:

-In stock form running 93 octane it did ping from time to time.
-My stock STi was a bit strong in that it did make 16PSIs when it didnt ping. After pinging started it would make around 14.5 PSIs.

Now for the results on a Dynapack:

We did about 6 stock dyno runs and the results varied because it pinged after the first run or so which pulled timing back and made less power. HP ranged from 263-275 and torque ranged from 248-260.

After the UTEC was intalled it made 292HP and 290IB/FT at wheels at about 19 PSIs. We did push the boost to almost 20PSIs and it made over 295HP and IB/FT but the VF39 could not hold that boost for very long so we decided it was safer to lower the boost. So on average the gain was about 23HP and 36IB/FT at wheels (largest was 28HP and 41 IB/FT at wheels). With the UTEC installed the runs were very consistent and the pinging was gone.

So as you can tell, great useable power was made with just a UTEC and it is clear that a TBE will net you more power as others had dynoed with the UTEC & TBE (other thread 308HP and 315IB/FT). My butt dyno noticed a big difference and Nathan and Jermaine enjoyed the road test as well. :)

Thanks to TurboXS for the installation and tune. You guys rock :banana:

Nathan/Jermaine-please post the dyno runs when they are ready

Thx.

Dave

Wonder how much power it will make with just the extra boost, minus the UTEC.

That is ALOT of boost for a stock car. (too much imho)

~v6

That is so odd about the variable boost/pinging in stock form. What's the manuf date on your car if I may ask?

Congrats on the tune, I bet that thing is fun.

-st

Originally posted by singletrack
That is so odd about the variable boost/pinging in stock form. What's the manuf date on your car if I may ask?
-st

My STi was from the first allocation. I bought my at the end of May-03.

Thanks for the info.

-st

Originally posted by V6TurboTA

That is ALOT of boost for a stock car. (too much imho)

~v6

I feel much safer even though I am running higher boost because dentonation is gone. Also, it could be argued that running higher boost with a real engine managment system is better than running a car w/alot of bolt-ons running (i.e., TBEs w/ boost creep) without an engine management sytem. BTW, I have 5 different maps and can vary the boost at each level (from 15-19 pounds) for varying conditions.

Originally posted by V6TurboTA
Wonder how much power it will make with just the extra boost, minus the UTEC.

That is ALOT of boost for a stock car. (too much imho)

~v6

I'm guessing if it pinged occasionally on stock boost(before UTEC) on 93 than just upping the boost would make it ping worse and more often.

Originally posted by V6TurboTA
Wonder how much power it will make with just the extra boost, minus the UTEC.

That is ALOT of boost for a stock car. (too much imho)

~v6

IMO I would not run extra boost without timing control. 19psi is not ALOT of boost. 23-25psi on my stock block WRX and I started to get scared. :eek:

TMS

More questions...

Did they just tune boost and timing?

Or did they do some fuel tuning?

Did they hook up the Tuna?

Originally posted by Abe Froman
More questions...

Did they just tune boost and timing?

Or did they do some fuel tuning?

Did they hook up the Tuna?

They did some fuel tuning as well because the car was running fairly rich from the start so they tweaked boost, timing and fuel. What is the Tuna?

The Tuna is their wideband O2 setup for fuel tuning...they must have set this up unless they just tweaked the prespool area of the curve.

Did they hook up any extra sensors to your car or just tune with UTEC and laptop?

Originally posted by DVTURK
My STi was from the first allocation. I bought my at the end of May-03.

Have you not gotten the factory reflash to fix the ping issue? Your ECU is not learning properly. You need to get it reflashed in order for your vehicle to run correctly, UTEC or no UTEC.

Our post-reflash car made 268 at the wheels on our Dynapack... there is no power loss as some people have claimed.

Originally posted by V6TurboTA
Wonder how much power it will make with just the extra boost, minus the UTEC.

That is ALOT of boost for a stock car. (too much imho)

~v6

There is no way to answer that question because it would depend almost entirely on what ignition timing the factory ECU decides to run. On the stock ECU runs, boost pressure at peak power was about 15.5 psi +/- 0.1 psi, yet peak power varied from 263whp to 275whp. AFR was for all practical purposes identical. The variation in power was due to variation in ignition timing. More ignition advance = more power, less advance = less power. Unfortunately more ignition advance = a greater likelihood of detonation, less advance = less chance of detonation.

This customers car was occasionally detonating at stock boost levels. I would argue that it was not because his boost was too high. After all, we ended up raising his boost AND eliminating his detonation problem. IMO, he was detting because his ECU as giving him too much ignition advance for the boost he was running. The UTEC lets us raise the boost AND eliminate det because we can control the ignition advance.

Several times per day we are asked by potential UTEC customers if they will make more power with the UTEC than they will with engine management brand X. I will tell you what we tell them. For a given setup, if your engine managment system (be it the factory ECU, the UTEC, the Ecutek, etc.) at a given load point gives you a Boost Pressure of X, an AFR of Y, and Ignition Advance of Z, you will make pretty much the same power regardless of what your engine management solution is.

So the question becomes what is the best way to ensure that you always get a Boost Pressure of X, an AFR of Y, and Ignition Advance of Z for a given load point? We think the UTEC does a pretty good job of doing that and doint it very consistently. Could you make close to the same power (or even more) by just raising the boost? It is certainly possible given the amount of advance we have seen the factory ECU run on the street, but it would not be nearly as consistent and the risk of detonation would certainly be greater.

Mark
TurboXS

Originally posted by Abe Froman
More questions...

Did they just tune boost and timing?

Or did they do some fuel tuning?

Did they hook up the Tuna?

The guys tuned, Fuel, Timing, and Boost.

We use the Tuna when tuning since it makes it very easy to see exactly what Load column and RPM row you need to make fuel adjustments in.

Mark
TurboXS

Good to see you liked the way the car turned out Dave!

I can count on one hand the people I'd trust nowadays in regards to engine management, you just met with a few of those 5.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

Originally posted by TurboXS
The guys tuned, Fuel, Timing, and Boost.

We use the Tuna when tuning since it makes it very easy to see exactly what Load column and RPM row you need to make fuel adjustments in.

Mark
TurboXS

Mark,
Out of curiousity(and ignorance) how do you hook the Tuna to a car with stock exhaust(w/cats)?

Mark,
Out of curiousity(and ignorance) how do you hook the Tuna to a car with stock exhaust(w/cats)?

Good question I was wondering the same thing. Either way my tuna is already installed so when I have Nathan and Jermaine (sp?) tune my sti that will be one less thing to worry about. For the turboxs guys... how high would you rate having an egt guage in the grand scheme of preparedness for a good solid tune?

you just weld the bung to your exhaust somewhere.

Originally posted by happasaiyan
you just weld the bung to your exhaust somewhere.

Somewhere ahead of the cats right? Which means the top of the DP and it doesn't sound like DVTURK had that...I could be wrong, that's why I'm asking.

I plan on keeping the stock exhaust for awhile but was wondering how I could take advantage of the Tuna.

Originally posted by Abe Froman
Somewhere ahead of the cats right? Which means the top of the DP and it doesn't sound like DVTURK had that...I could be wrong, that's why I'm asking.

I plan on keeping the stock exhaust for awhile but was wondering how I could take advantage of the Tuna.

its better to do it before the cats, but i suppose you could do it after the cats if you know how the behavior would change.

Originally posted by Abe Froman
Somewhere ahead of the cats right? Which means the top of the DP and it doesn't sound like DVTURK had that...I could be wrong, that's why I'm asking.

I plan on keeping the stock exhaust for awhile but was wondering how I could take advantage of the Tuna.

This is where the instructions for the Tuna are vague.

“Guidelines on locating and installing the sensor
• Do not install the sensor where condensation may pool in the exhaust pipe. Install the sensor at the side of the pipe to avoid having excessive moisture enter into the sensor.
• Avoid mounting the sensor where the cables may get damaged from scraping moving parts, or contacting the ground while the vehicle is in motion. Keep cables away from hot exhaust parts.
• The O2 sensor is equipped with a heater circuit that will maintain a 750c internal temperature. If the sensor is too hot or too cold it will loose accuracy. Take note of exhaust gas temperatures and ensure that the sensor is installed in a location where those exhaust temperatures are significantly less then the required 750c internal operating temperature.
• There should not be any catalytic converters between the O2 sensor and the exhaust ports on the head. If the vehicle is turbocharged the o2 sensor should be installed after the turbine discharge, but before the first catalytic converter.
• Take note of the long flexible tube that is attached to the O2 sensor and ends just before the main connector. This must not be crimped.
• When installed in the exhaust system the O2 sensor must be connected and powered via the Tuner. If installed without the heater circuit powered the O2 sensor will be damaged.
• When used with leaded racing gasoline you will greatly shorten the life of the O2 sensor.
• See Appendix D for further installation instructions as taken from the Bosch LSU4 install document.”

I have seen DP with bungs right at the top, about four to six inches from the turbo. But many people also suggest that that location is too turbulent for the sensors. They suggest 12 to 18 inches away from the turbo. I was also told that people are using OEM location (somewhere on the race pipe for the TurboXS TBE), which is a long ways away from the turbo, for their wideband along with a CEL fix for non catted systems. I was thinking that I would do it on the DP about 12 inches away from the turbo.

Dave,
I am glad you are happy with your results.

Can you shoot me an email? I have a new parameters file i want you to try. If you want, you can stop by and I’ll load it up tomorrow since we'll be here doing some dyno work most of the day.

-Nathan
www.turboxs.com
nathan@turboxs.com

From turboxs:
Install it at least 18 inches from the turbo preferably towards the bottom of the downpipe at either 11 or 1 oclock to avoid condensation. Thats where mines installed and reads a solid 14.7 at idle after a free air calibration.

Originally posted by Abe Froman
Mark,
Out of curiousity(and ignorance) how do you hook the Tuna to a car with stock exhaust(w/cats)?

You either unscrew the factory rear O2 sensor and use that bung or your install it in the tailpipe jig we made. Typically on the dyno we put it in the tailpipe. It's not as accurate, but if anything, it reads leaner there so it is OK.

For a permanent install, the bottom of the downpipe is a nice location.

So you're the sausage king of Chicago, eh? ;)

Mark
TurboXS

http://www.turboxs.com/_images/stiutec/stockstivsutec.jpg

Stock VS. Utec
Jermaine@turboxs.com
www.turboxs.com

Originally posted by TurboXS
You either unscrew the factory rear O2 sensor and use that bung or your install it in the tailpipe jig we made. Typically on the dyno we put it in the tailpipe. It's not as accurate, but if anything, it reads leaner there so it is OK.

For a permanent install, the bottom of the downpipe is a nice location.

So you're the sausage king of Chicago, eh? ;)

Mark
TurboXS

Yeah but I'm really from Jersey so don't tell anyone...thanks for info...so the UTEC is gonna simulate the rear O2 sensor soon right;) ...

How much was it for the dyno tuning session at Turboxs? Is it hourly or 1 price till they get it right?

Originally posted by traganoo
How much was it for the dyno tuning session at Turboxs? Is it hourly or 1 price till they get it right?
Our price is typically between 150 and 200 an hour.

The session in question was free. Playing with Dave’s car on the dyno served our needs as much as it did his. I wouldn’t feel right about charging him for the tuning. I used it as a chance to gather data for the STI basemap and then started tuning his car.

-Nathan
www.turboxs.com