on my sti how much power can i make with a vf22, full exhaust, ecutek,tmic, fuel pump, injectors, and all the other supporting mods?

I know a good tuned stock turboed STI can hit 390 HP on race gas.........so figure maybe 420-430 on a vf-22 on C-16.....thats what i've heard from a few places...........on street gas i'm thinkin 390ish

vf22 has a habit of self destructing over about 360 crank hp, as measured on a RR that doesn't produce inflated figures.

Paul

Link for the self destruction facts please ?

I made 320 whp and 359ftlbs at only 16lbs

I am increasing to 20lbs when I get my utec.

I think I can make 350whp

Well that's great, because it means us people in the UK that have been using VF22s as long ago as 1999 have really been making 30hp more than we thought! Right untill they compressor wheel fell apart killing the core with it.

Heck, why did PE even bother putting in a new compressor wheel for the 1820 when the VF22 already makes 400hp at the crank!

In fairness things may have moved on, I've not seen great quality castings from IHI on older turbos I've looked at, fairly porous. But they haven't turned a 340hp turbo into a 400hp one.

Paul

Originally posted by Pavlo
Well that's great, because it means us people in the UK that have been using VF22s as long ago as 1999 have really been making 30hp more than we thought! Right untill they compressor wheel fell apart killing the core with it.

Heck, why did PE even bother putting in a new compressor wheel for the 1820 when the VF22 already makes 400hp at the crank!

In fairness things may have moved on, I've not seen great quality castings from IHI on older turbos I've looked at, fairly porous. But they haven't turned a 340hp turbo into a 400hp one.

Paul

U guys were not using them on 2.5liter motors in 1999 either-that's the difference in hp bet. urs and carguys-pe1820s are putting out 350whp plus on 2liters-that's why pe put in a bigger wheel not because v22's were self destructing. I believe carguy will hit 350whp or close to it on his 2.5l w/ proper tuning and 20psi- he's also clipping the exhaust wheel iirc-good for an additional 20-25whp over stock vf22-we'll see I guess. Pavlo-if u've tried this combo on a usdm sti motor, please chime in, otherwise it's just more internet chatter.

Regardless of the application the stock VF22 compressor wheel is not that great.

I currently have a VF22 based hybrid on my (2.0 litre) car, first thing we did was replace the compressor wheel. Why? Because I have X-rayed (my trade) too many porus and included VF22 wheels for my liking. One of which as a brand new core let go at 1.2 bar of boost when it had covered just 350 miles. 30% of the blade area just tore off, and embeded itself in the intercooler!

We have been playing about with VF22's for a long time over here and they simply don't cut it. The compressor wheels are infamous for shedding blades when run over 1.2 bar. This is mainly why the TD05 conversions have become some popular over here.

All we're trying to say is beware of running over 1.2 bar of boost on a stock VF22 compressor wheel they don't have a good rep. Yes you might get good power, but is that worth it if you have to keep picking bits of blade out of your intercooler?

Originally posted by Slooby
Regardless of the application the stock VF22 compressor wheel is not that great.

I currently have a VF22 based hybrid on my (2.0 litre) car, first thing we did was replace the compressor wheel. Why? Because I have X-rayed (my trade) too many porus and included VF22 wheels for my liking. One of which as a brand new core let go at 1.2 bar of boost when it had covered just 350 miles. 30% of the blade area just tore off, and embeded itself in the intercooler!

We have been playing about with VF22's for a long time over here and they simply don't cut it. The compressor wheels are infamous for shedding blades when run over 1.2 bar. This is mainly why the TD05 conversions have become some popular over here.

All we're trying to say is beware of running over 1.2 bar of boost on a stock VF22 compressor wheel they don't have a good rep. Yes you might get good power, but is that worth it if you have to keep picking bits of blade out of your intercooler?

Good info. What did u replace the compressor wheel with-and is this the only reliability problem w/ the vf22? thnx. Deadbolt and kingpin over here are offering the pe1820 wheel, essentially converting the vf22 into a pe1820. Is that what u did? How did this affect spool compared to stock vf22 How many more cfm will it flow and did u dyno to document the difference?

Originally posted by odin1
Good info. What did u replace the compressor wheel with-and is this the only reliability problem w/ the vf22? thnx. Deadbolt and kingpin over here are offering the pe1820 wheel, essentially converting the vf22 into a pe1820. Is that what u did? How did this affect spool compared to stock vf22 How many more cfm will it flow and did u dyno to document the difference?

My turbo came from Lateral Performance and was built by Turbo Dynamics over here in the UK. It has often been reffered to as an MD304 but that doesn't really mean much! I never tried the stock VF22 on my car beacuse I'd seen too many bits of them!

Basically it is a VF22 Compressor housing mated to a smaller P18 exhaust housing from the VF28. The comressor wheel was replaced with something larger from either Toyota or laterly by Garrett (when the Toyota source dried up) I'm affraid I don't have the specs, all I can remember is mine has the Toyota wheel, it's been on the car for 3 years now! The compressor housing was ported and enlarged to suit the new wheel, the exhaust housing was ported and fitted with a larger P20 wastegate button.

For a 2.0 litre Euro spec (7k red line) engine the P20 exhaust housing fitted to the VF22 as standard would have slugged spool too much for my liking, and really only offers an advantage on mildly tuned 2 litre engines that can rev over 7k.

In it's current configuration (with an HKS manifold and front mount intercooler, Link ECU) the turbo delivers 1 bar at around 2700 rpm, and my 1.35 bar peak at 3200 rpm which it will hold to the red line.

In other cars I have seen/driven which had the VF22 fitted as standard (MY97 WRX and Sti 4) in factory tune (ie top mount IC etc) they struggled to produce 1 bar before 3200 rpm and felt noticably 'laggy'.

The MD304 was fitted to replace a wrung out TD04. With the TD04, the Link ECU and a 2.5 inch cat free exhaust system I was getting 244 brake 256lb (Flywheel). Adding the Turbo, Front Mount, Manifold and a 3 inch exhaust to the mix brought things up to 344 brake and 308lb/ft on the same rolling road (back then I only ran 1.25 bar). The % gains were certainly worth it.

Ok, the figures don't sound high, but we tend to agree to disagree about US and UK numbers ;)

The comments from people who have been in my car are that it has all the low down grunt of a wrung out TD04 engine, but come 4500 rpm when the TD04 is peaking it just keeps on pulling...hard...I've run a 12.3 1/4 mile, another similarly turbo'd and modded car ran a 12.16 on the same day...neither of us would claim to be the greatest of 1/4 milers though ;)

Now, the MD304 is definately too small for a 2.5, the VF22 isn't exactly big enough, in many ways I think of the VF22 on a 2.5 in the same way as a TD04 on the 2 litre. It works well at the low end on a little boost, but is a bit small and strangles the engine as the revs rise.

I think the TD05/6 combo than John Banks has been running on his EJ257 over here is a nice combo, expecially when you consider that the Mitsi Turbos are very stronger and cheaper compared to the IHI's.

Personally, on my EJ257 build? I'm fitting a socking great Garrett :D

Originally posted by Slooby
My turbo came from Lateral Performance and was built by Turbo Dynamics over here in the UK. It has often been reffered to as an MD304 but that doesn't really mean much! I never tried the stock VF22 on my car beacuse I'd seen too many bits of them!

Basically it is a VF22 Compressor housing mated to a smaller P18 exhaust housing from the VF28. The comressor wheel was replaced with something larger from either Toyota or laterly by Garrett (when the Toyota source dried up) I'm affraid I don't have the specs, all I can remember is mine has the Toyota wheel, it's been on the car for 3 years now! The compressor housing was ported and enlarged to suit the new wheel, the exhaust housing was ported and fitted with a larger P20 wastegate button.

For a 2.0 litre Euro spec (7k red line) engine the P20 exhaust housing fitted to the VF22 as standard would have slugged spool too much for my liking, and really only offers an advantage on mildly tuned 2 litre engines that can rev over 7k.

In it's current configuration (with an HKS manifold and front mount intercooler, Link ECU) the turbo delivers 1 bar at around 2700 rpm, and my 1.35 bar peak at 3200 rpm which it will hold to the red line.

In other cars I have seen/driven which had the VF22 fitted as standard (MY97 WRX and Sti 4) in factory tune (ie top mount IC etc) they struggled to produce 1 bar before 3200 rpm and felt noticably 'laggy'.

The MD304 was fitted to replace a wrung out TD04. With the TD04, the Link ECU and a 2.5 inch cat free exhaust system I was getting 244 brake 256lb (Flywheel). Adding the Turbo, Front Mount, Manifold and a 3 inch exhaust to the mix brought things up to 344 brake and 308lb/ft on the same rolling road (back then I only ran 1.25 bar). The % gains were certainly worth it.

Ok, the figures don't sound high, but we tend to agree to disagree about US and UK numbers ;)

The comments from people who have been in my car are that it has all the low down grunt of a wrung out TD04 engine, but come 4500 rpm when the TD04 is peaking it just keeps on pulling...hard...I've run a 12.3 1/4 mile, another similarly turbo'd and modded car ran a 12.16 on the same day...neither of us would claim to be the greatest of 1/4 milers though ;)

Now, the MD304 is definately too small for a 2.5, the VF22 isn't exactly big enough, in many ways I think of the VF22 on a 2.5 in the same way as a TD04 on the 2 litre. It works well at the low end on a little boost, but is a bit small and strangles the engine as the revs rise.

I think the TD05/6 combo than John Banks has been running on his EJ257 over here is a nice combo, expecially when you consider that the Mitsi Turbos are very stronger and cheaper compared to the IHI's.

Personally, on my EJ257 build? I'm fitting a socking great Garrett :D

Thnx for the detailed reponse:) Sounds like an interesting and fun combo-for my sti 2.5l-I will fit the 630cfm compressor wheel onto my ported and polished vf22, w/ corner clipped exhaust wheel and ceramic coated turbine housing-at the present, I get full boost 17psi at 2650 rpm in 4th w/ no em yet-waiting for sti ecutek. Hoping to get full boost at 3000 rpm w/ the hybrid 1820-identical in parts content to pe 1820. This turbo flows 680cm at 22 psi and 630cfm at i bar. Should be fun. Thanks for the heads up on the weak vf22 compressor wheel-u just saved me a whole lot of headaches-hate seeing my bits in the intercooler. Cheers:)

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=348775&perpage=25&highlight=vf22&pagenumber=1

Old thread from a year back on the VF22 with some rather heated debate ;) Weakness and power potential was all discussed then and far earlier on many other boards.

Worth comparing the turbine wheels on the VF22 and the TD05 based turbos as well. Whilst your compressor wheel map (which itself may be based on a different housing) may flow 680 CFM at 22 PSI, the back pressure will be massive from an inadequate turbine wheel.

Interestingly on a very similar setup, once you've maxxed out the turbo on a 2.0 you get to VERY similar limits on the 2.5 just at lower boost or lower RPM.

On 98 RON fuel at our pessimistic local rollers with a safe tune without additives, with FMIC, headers etc, the VF22 is good for about 325 BHP flywheel, TD05 340, 20G about 390 BHP. With additives/methanol/octane booster/race gas etc you can add about 10%. So you guys are getting up to the same figures at the wheels for similar spec to what some of our dynos are showing for flywheel - our wheel figures are about 20% lower. Just helps put figures in context when talking about 400 BHP VF22s ;) which in my book don't exist, they don't even do 350 flywheel on most of our dynos.

"I'm fitting a socking great Garrett" - I like the sound of that, I'm going for a Garrett as well, although only moderate in size, the 20G is too small to do the 2.5 justice with power peaking at 5500 RPM if you run decent boost. 1 bar at 2500 RPM is nice, but efficiency from 5500-7000 RPM is nicer, as long as it is still on song by 3000-3500. The 6MT has nice short gearing, may as well make use of it. A 20G on a 2.5 feels like a TD04 on a 2.0 - too small. And I really hate lag and I think it is too small, a VF22 is diminutive on a 2.5.

any of you guys have the vf22 on your sti. If so have you had any problems with boost creep. Is the wastegate strong enough to handle the amount of air?

i just got my vf22 today and now i feel that it might be a waste. i plan on running the vf22 in my sti with ecutek, tmic, and everything else needed to run right. i plan on boosting 18 psi with no mods done to the 22. will my car run fine? will the turbo die on me? should i return the 22 and just put in the vf30 i had from my wrx?

Originally posted by wrxyboy
any of you guys have the vf22 on your sti. If so have you had any problems with boost creep. Is the wastegate strong enough to handle the amount of air?

I forgot about that bit! We replaced the actuator with a (IIRC) a 1 bar Cosworth actuator with adjustable pre-load, because the stock actuator kept on being blown open...ops, sorry

Originally posted by fastwrx006
i plan on boosting 18 psi with no mods done to the 22. will my car run fine? will the turbo die on me?

John would be better qualified to comment here, but I would say 18psi is getting close to the limit of the standard compressor wheel :(

should i return the 22 and just put in my 30?

Fast wrx006.....i was gonna do a setup close to yours..but after talkin to a few good tuners i changed my mind, mostly because the vf22 wasn't gonna give me enough of a gain.........but i was able to pull about 365 hp on street gas/390-395hp on race gas with more torque then many aftermarket turbos get, all from the factory unit....thats enough for me, until somebody comes out with a well tuned turbo kit that wont' cost me $5000 to setup......Vishnu i heard has one comin out soon:lol:

http://www.johnbanks.dsl.pipex.com/flowcalcEJ25716Gsmall.xls

The Excel plots above show a simulation of a TD05 on an EJ257 - this is about 10% "bigger" than a VF22 as well.

If you do make it hold the boost then you will be fighting the back pressure from the turbine wheel.

Whether it will boost creep will depend on the exhaust and setup on the individual car. If it does boost creep badly it could be a very dangerous situation as it would be so out of its league it isn't funny.

I was not aware that the VF22 was smaller than a small 16g! Does anyone know where I could find some compressor maps for IHI turbos? I'd love to sit down and do some comparisons.

I ran a TD05h-14B on my RS-T and as a DSM fan have long been interested in the 16g. It's perfectly suited for a 2.0 with nice spool up characteristics and can hold 21-22 psi till 7k without breaking a sweat (on a large or evo 16g that is). From my research, I think any TD05 is a little small for a 2.5L, especially if you're going to be running high boost levels. So if it's true that the largest IHI turbo is smaller than a 16g, I think I might be looking elsewhere when it's time to upgrade turbos.

Brian

Originally posted by Mancini
So if it's true that the largest IHI turbo is smaller than a 16g, I think I might be looking elsewhere when it's time to upgrade turbos.

Brian

Its true, dont waste your time with IHI

Originally posted by GeorgeRex
Link for the self destruction facts please ?

turboICE

READ the long posts above, from the horses mouth.

That is one case, I know personally of 3 others, it's not a big thing in the UK simply because these days nobody buys VF22 turbos as an upgrade.

Paul

Sorry I was scanning through that thread and will go back more carefully. It went back and forth on a lot of stuff I missed where it covered self-distruction.

how bout upgrading it to a 1820? Will that take care of the self destruction problems?

Still don't see the "habit of self destructing over about 360 crank hp" evidence in that mostly irrelevant drival of a thread. Evidence a habit of self-destruction is lacking from that thread.

It's got nothing to do with the power, it's all to do with the boost that you run and the quality of the compressor blade.

As I said earlier the VF22 compressor blades that I have X-RAYED have had a high level of porosity and inclusions in them. Which I beleive to be the route cause of the problems associated with the VF22, I would also add that the blade thickness on the stock VF22 is pretty thin compared to other VF series turbos and those of other manufacturers (of an equivalent size) that I have seen

Having performed a fair amount of X-ray work on compressor blades the best quality that I have seen so far have been those used by Mitsubishi and Garrett. Mitsubishi's spec on these things states that there must be no inclusions at all, and porosity must be no larger than 5 thou, and if there is any smaller than that it must not be within 10 thou of the next area of porosity. That is a very stringent specification!

Not withstanding the above, as John has already pointed out, the VF22 is a bit small for a 2.5, and the exhaust housing design is a bit restrictive for a big capacity engine.

turboICE

if you want to run the vf22 and try and get some serious power, be my guest. When the compressor wheel explodes, or you need to take your car to a dyno which gives inflated figures just to flatter your ego, don't come crying to us.

Paul

Oh, OK, I now see, challenged to provide evidence, the solution is to turn it around on the person inquiring. Remember there are no stupid questions only stupid answers. There are a lot of VF-22's around - where are the exploded ones? And trust me I have no problem admitting when I am wrong - I value acquired knowledge and independent thought over prideful ego.

Ed.

SO you want me to get testimonials from the handful of people I know that have had their vf22 explode? Like I already said, in the UK, the VF22 just isn't or wasn't ever a popular turbo for upgrading to. So in percentage terms almost everyone that has tried to get any significant power from a VF22 has had it explode.

Secondly, and this is the real crux, is the VF22 just isn't capable of flowing much air for serious power. THis is the main reason for the failures, simply because they were being used to try and attain power figures that are simply out if it's reach.

As I have also said, this was a good few years ago, and I very much doubt the current wheels will be from the same batch or even made on the same line, so the quality may have improved.

I am not a mission to disuade people from getting an IHI turbo, but if you want to buy a VF22 then people should be aware that there are much better turbos to buy, even for similar money (td05 16g for instance.

If you just want to ignore all of that and buy a VF22 just for the hell of it, go ahead.

Paul

No issue has been taken with whether or not the VF-22 is appropriate for a given application or whether or not a better turbo is available for a given application. Those are fine and reasonable points for discussions to be had. But an broad based fear inducing statement like:

Originally posted by Pavlo
vf22 has a habit of self destructing over about 360 crank hp

made in such an absolute fashion on the internet warrants support. And with such an absolute statement of fact there certainly shouldn't be any bitterness towards those inquiring for support. Support for such an absolute fact should be readily evident and widely available. As of this moment the statement would appear to be overstated internet fear-inducing hype since there are plenty of readily evident and widely available applications with the number of "I just put the VF-22 on and it is great" posts, without any of them coming back later and saying "man my VF-22 just grenaded when I ran it at 18psi."

I never said that the VF-22 was the best for anything at all. Heck I don't care if you want to call it as useless as a paper weight. There is plenty of places for people to go and make the determination for themselves whether or not it has the proper profile for them to use. I simply challenge such a broad statement that they self-destruct. Because as of right now this is the only place I have seen such a claim and this will now be the source of that rumor for some time to come.

you miss the point, they self destruct when trying to extract serious power from them, due to high shaft rpm and the compressor wheel not staying together. For normal, moderate power outputs, such as those on the cars for which they are standard equipment, it's fine.

the problem is people are getting the idea that they can use a VF22 and it's an improvement over say a VF30, when it just isn't.

Exploding VF22s are old news, from a time before NASIOC even, from a time when everyones slightest mod was documented in lengthy threads on BBSs for all to see.

Maybe things have improved, or maybe in 12 months there will be a whole host of people with grenaded VF22s. Do you want to risk it for a few hp though?

Paul

This is actually interesting.

I guess here are my $.02.

Here in the midwest, we have several people I've tuned with VF22's. Also we have lots of VF30/34 stage 4 cars to compare against.

At the exact same PSI, the VF22's typically have produced 20-25 more WHP mod for mod being the same to a VF34 equipped car. EGT was also lower by about 25-45F across the same test pool on the VF22's. I know the BP/EP ratio on a VF is junk to begin with, but for the 2.0's at least, kept in reasonable PR's, I can't see why the VF22 won't perform just fine.

I can't debate longevity, so I won't try. Save the comment that VF22's around here have gone several years so far with no issue. Running an average of 18-19 PSI on the 2.0's.

On a 2.5 I'd imagine you could, at the least, flow what a VF39 will flow, at a lower PR, with less chance for creep. A band aid over a bullet wound, but if an STI owner isn't looking for more then 300-330WHP, happen to have a wonderful byproduct of creep control, and it costs you <$500 if you score a great deal on a new, unused VF22.

I say go for it.

I dunno, we'll see. I have one STI here going to a VF22 with a ported wastegate, and he's only looking for stage 2 power figures 300-330WHP, so I'll report back what we find when it's all on and tuned up. I'm assuming we'll be able to run this at around 15-16PSI inthe middle around 13-14 PSI at redline, and move the air needed. Just on prior experiances with 22's on 2.0's.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

Originally posted by RiftsWRX
This is actually interesting.

I guess here are my $.02.

Here in the midwest, we have several people I've tuned with VF22's. Also we have lots of VF30/34 stage 4 cars to compare against.

At the exact same PSI, the VF22's typically have produced 20-25 more WHP mod for mod being the same to a VF34 equipped car. EGT was also lower by about 25-45F across the same test pool on the VF22's. I know the BP/EP ratio on a VF is junk to begin with, but for the 2.0's at least, kept in reasonable PR's, I can't see why the VF22 won't perform just fine.

I can't debate longevity, so I won't try. Save the comment that VF22's around here have gone several years so far with no issue. Running an average of 18-19 PSI on the 2.0's.

On a 2.5 I'd imagine you could, at the least, flow what a VF39 will flow, at a lower PR, with less chance for creep. A band aid over a bullet wound, but if an STI owner isn't looking for more then 300-330WHP, happen to have a wonderful byproduct of creep control, and it costs you <$500 if you score a great deal on a new, unused VF22.

I say go for it.

I dunno, we'll see. I have one STI here going to a VF22 with a ported wastegate, and he's only looking for stage 2 power figures 300-330WHP, so I'll report back what we find when it's all on and tuned up. I'm assuming we'll be able to run this at around 15-16PSI inthe middle around 13-14 PSI at redline, and move the air needed. Just on prior experiances with 22's on 2.0's.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com
wow ok some hope because i just purchased a 22 with port and polish, ceramic exhaust housing, and a the wheel clipped to ten degrees. I was thinking of sending ti to deadbolt to upgrading it to a 1820. i am looking to get around 330 whp and if i can do it with this turbo with tuning then i really do not think i would need to send it out. What is the maximum PSI suggested to run on a 22?

on a 2.5? Honestly, I wouldn't dream of spinning more then what I've suggessted wanting to keep any sort of longevity to it.

It's not this simple... but stop to think of it this way. If we're running VF22's on a 2.0 at 19 PSI with a pretty good mix of performance and longevity. A 25% larger displacement is going to be 14.25 PSI. Your moving 25% more exhaust through the turbine per RPM, meaning your going to have 25% more compressor flow per RPM, so to keep things apples to apples, you would technically need 25% less manifold pressure to move a similar amound of air (since turbo's are about flow, not manifold pressure).

This is FAR from scientific or exact, plotting a 2.5 onto a VF22 compressor and turbine map will be the proper way to calculate what would be ideal, and long lasting on a 2.5. But for the simple sake of explanation, and err'ing on the side of caution, I'd go along with what I was saying.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

I would definitely take Jorge's advice - he knows all to well the types of turbo strain and cylinder pressures generated on various setups.

I would be interested though in your 25% initial comparison. What are your thoughts on the intake since it is the same as the 2.0 and assuming the same throttle body cross section as the 2.0 - even with the AVCS will it really have 25% greater potential with the same TB and intake?

I guess I was thinking that 16-17 psi going down to 15 psi would be comparable turbine speeds and CFMs to what the 2.0's have been working with.

I also have had very good experiences with the VF22. I ran one for 6-8 months, and it performed wonderfully, not shedding even a single compressor wheel blade (<- please note the sarcasm).

I ran it on a 205 at up to 24 psi, and it did wonderfully. Boost tapers down to 21 or so at redline, buit that was more of a wastegate problem than anything else.

I've driven a 257 hybrid with a VF22 set to 15-16 psi, and it ran great! Power would fade a little up top, but not enough to be maddening. Delta dash road dyno (for whatever that is worth) put it at 352/355 whp/tq.

I am a vf22 optimist. I don't claim it is the most efficient turbo ever, but for around 600 bucks it's a fine option.

exactly... if you score one for a good price, and have modest goals (300-330WHP) you should be fine.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

Originally posted by RiftsWRX
exactly... if you score one for a good price, and have modest goals (300-330WHP) you should be fine.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com


well i just bought odin's practically brand new vf-22 deadbolt monster p&p,ceramic housing coating, and turbine wheel clipped to ten degrees. you think i can pull off 330 whp with that turbo? especially with a clipped wheel? i thought that gives some extra ponies.

No clue bud. Clipping doesn't make the problem of of over-reving the shaft go away.

I guess your going to find out though....

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

477 CFM turbo. 330 WHP. This is about double the stock power of a WRX right? With a VF22? ???!!?? That is a 20G pushing hard on pump fuel in my book.

What sort of 1/4 mile terminals are we talking for "330 WHP"?

It all depends on the dyno. Where I am from, 20g is good for 370whp on 97RON fuel with 10% methanol, and a Dyno Dynamics is not considered pessimistic!

I've said it already about 3 times on this thread, but the newer VF22s may be much better quality. I doubt they flow any more than they used to though.

paul

Originally posted by Pavlo
It all depends on the dyno. Where I am from, 20g is good for 370whp on 97RON fuel with 10% methanol, and a Dyno Dynamics is not considered pessimistic!

I've said it already about 3 times on this thread, but the newer VF22s may be much better quality. I doubt they flow any more than they used to though.

paul

well few people have said and i have read before i can not remember which forum that the vf-22 construction quality has changed over the few years. the more recent ones dont have problems like the ones in europe a little while ago with "porus" stuff in the blades. but i am not as experienced as you guys so ill just have to find out. Someone here got 320 whp on a vf-22 at 16 psi pump. so running a vf-22 to 18 psi daily driven on a 22 is way too much on a 2.5L?

I dunno John.. I'm not pulling this stuff out of my ass, LOL. Almost 300WHP on a 2.0 at around 18-19 PSI. Same dyno shows VF34's with the same mods at around 270's on pump gas.

Hell I ran a VF22 for a year with out issues and had no problems making power with it.

No harm no foul bud, just stating the facts as I've seen them personally on this side of the pond.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

i dont want a huge turbo. i was very happy with my vf30 wrx but i had a chance to get a sti so i did. i want to make about 420-450 hp, i thought with a ecutek and everything else it could be done on a vf22 sti. my goal is to run 12's in the 1/4 mile and from what i know a vf22 should do it, any bigger of a turbo just seems too much for me.

another thing why is boost different on the 2.0L and the 2.5 L. the 22 cant hold 18.5 psi in the sti? the boost is different? can someone please explain? thanks!

Originally posted by ksikyat2000
well i just bought odin's practically brand new vf-22 deadbolt monster p&p,ceramic housing coating, and turbine wheel clipped to ten degrees. you think i can pull off 330 whp with that turbo? especially with a clipped wheel? i thought that gives some extra ponies.

ksykyat-It's not a 10 degree clip-it is corner clipped by deadbolt-they said it gives the flow of a big(read 10 degree) clip w/out the associated lag penalty. thnx.

Originally posted by john banks
477 CFM turbo. 330 WHP. This is about double the stock power of a WRX right? With a VF22? ???!!?? That is a 20G pushing hard on pump fuel in my book.

What sort of 1/4 mile terminals are we talking for "330 WHP"?

John-our figures over here are approx. 500 cfm at 18psi on a 2l-clipping the wheel-a time honored hotrod turbo mod-will increase flow substantially and decrease exhaust back pressure. 330-350whp will happen on sti-of course when it does, you'll discount the result- so I'll say this-I expect 112 or better mph in 1/4 w/ sti's-properly tuned of course and on pump gas-time will tell. Cheers.

Originally posted by john banks
477 CFM turbo. 330 WHP. This is about double the stock power of a WRX right? With a VF22? ???!!?? That is a 20G pushing hard on pump fuel in my book.

What sort of 1/4 mile terminals are we talking for "330 WHP"?

Also john-we're talking about 330whp on an sti not a wrx, thnx.

why the hell are you idiots arguing with paul and john? Skip the IHI crap and go with something that can make actual power.

Originally posted by RiftsWRX
No clue bud. Clipping doesn't make the problem of of over-reving the shaft go away.

I guess your going to find out though....

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

No Jorge-but as u know it should flow more cfm for a given boost pressure over stock v22.:)

what i wanna know is will the vf22 be able to handle all the air being flowed from sti's 2.5 block. Will the wastegate need to be ported to hold atleast 17psi.

Thanks odin1, I have a clip on my present turbo, doesn't make any difference to top end power, can plot the curves over each other. It does reduce the boost creep a bit.

If I am getting 121mph in 350 WHP tune on my first drag event with 10% less weight than a US STi and rather lazy gearchanges, I would expect an STi to do 117mph with 350 WHP and 115mph with 330 WHP.

112mph is only about a genuine (by our measure) 305 WHP by this scale, which is getting near to the bounds of possibility on a VF22.

I think you're using yard sticks where we are using metre sticks ;)

If you guys get repeated 115mph traps without nitrous on your full weight STis on pump fuel with a VF22 I will be the first to try a VF22 again ;) Meantime I will continue to **** myself laughing that you think this is a 400 BHP turbo or anything remotely like.

BTW, to pull 500 CFM through an EJ20 at 18 PSI would require 100% volumetric efficiency at 6333 RPM. Or 91% VE at 7000 RPM. You'd think we were talking about different engines here.

We've got M3 engine rivals again by bolt on mods onto a Scooby engine which is turbocharged ;)

Add your losses across the intercooler and the throttle body and inlet manifold, say 2 PSI, losses in the intake, another 0.5-1 PSI, you will be running your little VF22 at about 22 PSI to get your 18 PSI in the manifold (it is not a case of adding them on either, intake losses include atmospheric pressure). Now see where that lies on the compressor plot at 500 CFM.

Where has the realism gone?

Originally posted by john banks
BTW, to pull 500 CFM through an EJ20 at 18 PSI would require 100% volumetric efficiency at 6333 RPM. Or 91% VE at 7000 RPM. You'd think we were talking about different engines here.

We've got M3 engine rivals again by bolt on mods onto a Scooby engine which is turbocharged ;)

Add your losses across the intercooler and the throttle body and inlet manifold, say 2 PSI, losses in the intake, another 0.5-1 PSI, you will be running your little VF22 at about 22 PSI to get your 18 PSI in the manifold (it is not a case of adding them on either, intake losses include atmospheric pressure). Now see where that lies on the compressor plot at 500 CFM.

Where has the realism gone?

John-read my post again. I'm talking about a vf22 on a 2.5l sti- Do u have any experience w/ that particular combo? notlet's wit and see how it pans out. I'm personally installing an sr50 in a few days, hoping it'll make a nice low lag street turbo:)

Think you need to read your own post again...

our figures over here are approx. 500 cfm at 18psi on a 2l

Why would I put a VF22 on a 2.5? That is a crazy thing to do. Would ruin a nice engine.

Originally posted by john banks
Think you need to read your own post again...



Why would I put a VF22 on a 2.5? That is a crazy thing to do. Would ruin a nice engine.

I guess we're going to find out.

In an untuned environment I know of at least a few examples on here alone of people who've changed nothing short of the turbo, and seen improvements. I still stand by my initial thought.

If your looking for a modest increase, but primarily looking more to remove the creep issue and can score a killer price on it. I say go for it.

But again... we'll see.. if it ends up being crap on a 2.5, don't worry... I'll be the first to raise my hand and say it was crap.

As for 400 horsepower... I even agree with that one... NO... it's not a 400HP turbo, not even close.

Low 300's I still hold faith with. Obviously that's up to the dyno, but still. For those thinking they're going to get 350WHP out of any configuration of a VF22, I think that's overly optimistic.

Think more midrange improvement, creep control, with a modest increase on the top to a VF39. Not the end all be all of turbo selection.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

The way I see it is for a little over $500 you can pick up (guessing till dyno'd) 30hp and 30lbs of torque. Not bad for $500.

I based my estimates on hp from proven results of 14hp by switching out the 39 for a 34. And this was untuned.

Yes, that was an STi that just blew your Honda's doors off! Wait, was that your girlfriend in the passenger seat with that good looking fellow?

Originally posted by Raffy
Yes, that was an STi that just blew your Honda's doors off! Wait, was that your girlfriend in the passenger seat with that good looking fellow?
:huh:

I'v been runing a vf22 for over a year on a pretty safe tune at 256.8whp. so like maybe 310-320crank.

LOL ummm..... this is a 4 year old thread.
Might as well update though now that is alive again....
I never went with the VF-22, I actually had a VF-30 on it for a month or two then the TD06h-20g went in.....long story don't ask.