Subject: Press: Saab Announces Pricing for All-Wheel-Drive 9-2X
=================
Norcross, GA-The new Saab 9-2X is the next significant step in the biggest product development program in Saab's history. With standard all-wheel-drive, powerful engines, and distinctive European design - as well as versatile 5-door body style - it is a unique offering in a developing new niche in the car market: the premium sports compact segment. The first Saab 9-2X models will go on sale in the U.S. and Canada on June 1, 2004 - ahead of many competitors who are also bringing products to this market.

With aggressive pricing, the Saab 9-2X will be the first premium brand vehicle for many of its customers. With this vehicle, Saab expects to attract customers, in their early stages of their career, who are cosmopolitan and open-minded, and who appreciate the sophisticated style of a European brand.

Pricing starts at $22,990 for the 9-2X Linear, equipped with a 165-hp 2.5L 4-cylinder engine. Standard equipment includes 16-inch alloy wheels with 205/55 R16 all-season tires, AM/FM/CD stereo system, climate control system, cruise control, tilt-adjustable steering column, power door locks with remote keyless entry, power windows, power-adjustable exterior mirrors and rear
window wiper/washer.

The 9-2X Aero model, with its 227-hp turbocharged and intercooled 2.0L 4-cylinder engine, is priced at $26,950. In addition to equipment on the 9-2X Linear, the Aero model distinguishes itself with larger front brake discs, hood-mounted intercooler air intake, front fog lamps, unique light alloy wheels, automatic climate control system, 6-disc in-dash CD changer, metallic-rimmed instrument dials, sport textile upholstery, leather wrapped sport steering wheel, shifter knob and handbrake handle.

Both Linear and Aero models come with a 5-speed manual transmission or an optional 4-speed automatic transmission. Available option packages include leather-appointed trim and upholstery, power sunroof, xenon headlights, heated seats and more.

Saab Cars USA, based in Norcross, GA, is the importer and distributor of Saab 9-2X, 9-3 and 9-5 automobiles.

Xenon headlights? SAAB is adding HIDs to the WRX- Does Subaru offer this on any model?

Originally posted by gumball
Xenon headlights? SAAB is adding HIDs to the WRX- Does Subaru offer this on any model?

Just the STI, in the US at least.

Originally posted by Glenn Wallace
The 9-2X Aero model, with its 227-hp turbocharged and intercooled 2.0L 4-cylinder engine, is priced at $26,950. In addition to equipment on the 9-2X Linear, the Aero model distinguishes itself with larger front brake discs, hood-mounted intercooler air intake, front fog lamps, unique light alloy wheels, automatic climate control system, 6-disc in-dash CD changer, metallic-rimmed instrument dials, sport textile upholstery, leather wrapped sport steering wheel, shifter knob and handbrake handle.


That actually sounds like a reasonable price! with Xenon and 17" rims that is priced right in line with WRX's. I guess I was expecting a more significant 'Saab' markup.

Tom

I was expecting a saab markup as well.

I'm getting married in July and my fiance works at GM...so I will be able to get the GM discount on this car which should shave several thousand off the price. I will consider one of these for sure.

I'm not big on the wagon style but it's growing on me. I like the rims too.

Originally posted by gumball
Xenon headlights? SAAB is adding HIDs to the WRX- Does Subaru offer this on any model?

Remember that this is Subaru adding HIDs to an Impreza that is going to be sold as a Saab. I believe these cars are being assembled in Gunma along with all the other Imprezas.

Originally posted by reks
Remember that this is Subaru adding HIDs to an Impreza that is going to be sold as a Saab. I believe these cars are being assembled in Gunma along with all the other Imprezas.

Correct.

So the HIDs in the 9-2X are probably exactly the same as the HIDs on the STI.

Originally posted by phoenix96
So the HIDs in the 9-2X are probably exactly the same as the HIDs on the STI.

doubtful... if you've seen pics of the 9-2X the front end doesn't look at all like an impreza. headlights aren't even close to the same shape.

Originally posted by Rebellion
doubtful... if you've seen pics of the 9-2X the front end doesn't look at all like an impreza. headlights aren't even close to the same shape.

Obviously the housings aren't. I mean the actual HID components (the auto-leveling and the bulbs)

Originally posted by phoenix96
Obviously the housings aren't. I mean the actual HID components (the auto-leveling and the bulbs)

We don't know yet if the 9-2X gets auto levelling; it may be manual like the STi headlamps.

The ballast boxes are attached to the bottom of the lamp housing.

$26K is Legacy GT territory.

^^eggzackly ... I think SAAB is screwed

Originally posted by Mike Wevrick
^^eggzackly ... I think SAAB is screwed

The SAAB RDF (Reality Distortion Field) is at least as powerful as Steve Jobs'/Apple's. Up here in VT, all the rich UVM students drive SAABs.

**** saab they can't come out with anything creative on their own... very upset...

I own and evo, but def have my love for the wrx... that car gave me my first taste of this awd turbo 4 door love.. def amazing cars..


but yeah **** saab....

Originally posted by Captain Ned
The SAAB RDF (Reality Distortion Field) is at least as powerful as Steve Jobs'/Apple's. Up here in VT, all the rich UVM students drive SAABs.

I've owned as many Saabs as Subarus --- 5 of each!!!

I currently own 2 Saabs. (pics below, the wagon has 258 lb-ft of torque and can do 155 MPH at which point the limiter kicks in...)

9-2X
At least the 9-2X is a rebadged Subie and not a rebadged GM!!

I think the idea is to have an entry level car to get people in to the brand. The problem is it will have none of the attributes that really define a Saab.....

For more 9-2X info go here: http://www.9-2x.saabusa.com

The options are priced out here: http://www.9-2x.saabusa.com/92x_pricing.pdf

Saab's quirkiness and uniqueness is the brand, it will never be a mainstream brand. To dry to do that will kill it.

9-7X
BTW pix and details of the 9-7X SUV are up at http://www.Saabusa.com

It has the key between the seats and the instrument panel of the 9-3. At least they're trying to make it Saab-ish.

And with the "X" thing at least they're letting you know which ones are not actually made by Saab....

Glenn

http://www.detnews.com/pix/2002/09/11/c08drove.jpg

http://www.saabusa.com/main/US/en/image/photo_gallery/93C/93C_ext_6.jpg

Originally posted by Captain Ned
The SAAB RDF (Reality Distortion Field) is at least as powerful as Steve Jobs'/Apple's. Up here in VT, all the rich UVM students drive SAABs.

I guess. Oh well, Subaru wins either way. :banana:

Originally posted by Captain Ned
The SAAB RDF (Reality Distortion Field) is at least as powerful as Steve Jobs'/Apple's. Up here in VT, all the rich UVM students drive SAABs.

I mean this in the nicest way, bite me.

They used to make great cars until GM poisoned them.
I used to own a 900s and the thing was great! Never a problem and sold it with 270,000 miles on the thing. It just looked funny, but in reality was one of the best cars I've ever driven.

Subaru and Saab arn't that much different. They both started out from parent companies that produced Airplanes before cars. That's one reason their engineeering and production are desgined to make quality/reliable parts and equipment. Their airplane expertise carried over into the outmaking, thus high quality products that don't fail for dumb reasons.

You can't sell airplanes that fall apart in mid air! Let's just hope VW doesn't start maing airplanes!!!

Originally posted by RightyTighty
Subaru and Saab arn't that much different.

Yeah, they both start with 'S'. :)

if everyone that had a saab didnt kept it for 10 years, saying how great it was, maybe saab would have a more independant structure and products

as disapointing it is for saab, this is their last chance before either gm sells them, or pull the plug on that company

Thread #1 (you may find it here: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=445662) was getting cumbersome, so here's a fresh start. Please post all non-Suburu news/rumors in this thread. Stray ones will get merged in as time goes on ;).


Brian

http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/home.jpg (http://www.ravensblade.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/impreza.jpg (http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/imprezamods.jpg (http://www.imprezamods.com) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/dmw.jpg (http://www.deniedmywarranty.org) http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/hosting/bratthumb.jpg (http://brat.ravensblade-impreza.com)

Please please please for the love of all that is holy and good, make a car lounge instead of a single thread.

I'd second that, seem's to me that a Lounge would be a better option then a Non-subie car thread, considering not everything that will be posted in it can truly be considered news or a rumor.

Not only that... how many cars are repeated because you can't keep track of 15 pages of posts and remember what has/hasn't been posted...

15 pages?!? HA! The first Non-Subaru thread went 50 pages! :lol: :eek:

Anyways, since no one else is posting new non-Subaru car stuff...
Here's the replacement (spy shot) of one of (if not THE) most gorgeous cars ever made:

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7171&sid=178&n=158

http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gallery/8053_image.jpg

agreed,, so awesome @ VWVortex.. but I'd like to see it here..

Originally posted by DDub
Please please please for the love of all that is holy and good, make a car lounge instead of a single thread.

I, for one, have been thoroughly enjoying the first thread and hope it continues here. I visit daily for my new car fix.

Thanks,
Mark.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeroforum?id=1 is your better daily fix until we get one here..

Originally posted by amdmaxx
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeroforum?id=1 is your better daily fix until we get one here..

Nah, I like the thread here better. It's succint (relative to a whole forum) and provides the highlights I'm interested in.

Alpha1, mh_WRX, and others have done a great job in that thread and I hope that they continue.

Thanks,
Mark.

Originally posted by maphill
I, for one, have been thoroughly enjoying the first thread and hope it continues here. I visit daily for my new car fix.

Originally posted by Hazdaz
15 pages?!? HA! The first Non-Subaru thread went 50 pages! :lol: :eek:


That was my point :D

Originally posted by maphill
Nah, I like the thread here better. It's succint (relative to a whole forum) and provides the highlights I'm interested in.

Alpha1, mh_WRX, and others have done a great job in that thread and I hope that they continue.

Thanks,
Mark.

Ditto - IMO no need for another forum. It works fine for nasioc. We can go to vwvortex.com if we feel the need for more info :D

i'd like to see 'other cars' have its own forum too. make it another branch of OT like the 'politcal' forum.

(i-club has one! :lol: )

(08:30 June 03, 2004)
Smarter Than Smart? Importer Says Two-Seat Fortwo Is Just What America Needs

http://www.autoweek.com/weekart/2004/0607/0607smart_main.jpg

The Smart car could be coming to the United States sooner than you think, and earlier than parent company DaimlerChrysler had planned. When is not exactly certain, but importer Thomas Heidemann is working on it 24/7.

Heidemann has invested $5 million of his and his family's money getting the two-seat Smart fortwo coupe up to U.S. specs. He has gotten it past DOT and NHTSA, but is still awaiting EPA certification (he has submitted all the paperwork, but has not yet heard back from that agency).

DaimlerChrysler's Smart GmbH manufactures several Smart models in Germany, and last year sold 122,300 in 30 countries worldwide. Smart has no plans to sell the fortwo here, but will bring an SUV version of the Smart forfour into the United States in 2006 through an estimated 60 Mercedes dealers. But that's still a ways off.

Given the enthusiasm surrounding the Smart brand, Smart USA general manager Scott Keough isn't surprised importers are working to bring in coupes before the SUV goes on sale through official channels. But he expressed concerns about long-term service for gray-market import versions.

Heidemann's company, Smart Automobiles LLC, plans to sell 15,000 Smart fortwo models a year. The dealer network is being set up by electric-vehicle makers ZAP of Santa Rosa, California (www.zapworld.com). Heidemann is still setting up warranty, dealer training and a number of other necessities.

The German Heidemann got the idea to import Smarts two years ago, about the time gas prices were doing another skyrocket. Heidemann figured a three-cylinder car that got 60 mpg made sense given the ever-rising price of gas. He tried doing his own conversion but eventually gave up.

"I didn't expect that it would be so complicated," he said.

Heidemann brought in Southern California car converter G&K Automotive Conversion. G&K has been importing supercars since 1979: McLaren F1s, Porsche 959s, Bugattis and Ferraris. Contrary to its small size, the Smart was not a simple conversion.

"We changed quite a few things and we added lots of other things," said G&K president George Gemayel.

The U.S. Smarts are fitted with federally mandated fuel management systems and "all the required emissions testing from A to Z," says Gemayel. They have been crash-tested from the front, side, rear and roof. Even the interior has been modified to meet U.S. crash standards-all U.S. Smart cars have four airbags. In all, it was a year and a half of work to bring them up to spec.

The fortwo has a three-cylinder turbo mated to a six-speed sequential manual gearbox. We drove one last week outside Smart Automobiles LLC's 150,000-square-foot facility in Santa Ana, and found it shifted like a tiny Ferrari, even matching revs on downshifts.

It was also surprisingly roomy inside, less claustrophobic than, say, a Mazda Miata or a Chrysler Crossfire. On the freeway it kept up with traffic just fine at 70 mph and it could have gone faster. In Smart's big parking lot we flipped the wheel back and forth and found plowing understeer at the limit.

Pricing is another thing that has not been figured out yet but should be divulged soon, according to Heidemann. Same with the website www.smartcar-usa.com, which right now directs you to ZAP's website.

Great time to launch a vehicle like the SMART FOR2 in America, Alpha1

Since I'm kinda dissapointed with the actual looks and features of the new Legacy here's something I'm considering instead. More expensive but worth it. New changes for the Infiniti G35 coupe and sedan.

Sedan = new front bumper, tail lights, revised interior, HP bump, to 277, 18" rims over current 17's.

Coupe = new sport package with 19's and bump in HP to 295!

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/index.jsp?epi-content=GENERIC&newsId=20040603005645&newsLang=en&beanID=202776713&viewID=news_view

A tidbit i found on Evo about a new "baby Mclaren" and some stuff about the SLR.

Early development work is well under way on the 'baby' McLaren, with plans to sell as many as 2000 cars a year to rival the likes of the Ferrari 360 Modena and Lamborghini Gallardo.

Although McLaren engineers are remaining tight-lipped about the project, evo has learnt that feasibility studies are currently being carried out on the car; directors of the company gathered during May to spend a day testing the two Italian supercars on track.

McLaren is hoping to use carbonfibre construction for the new car, although there are doubts about the economic viability of using the material for a car with a projected price tag of about £110,000. One insider suggested that the composite monocoque would have to come in at £3000, factory cost. 'Very, very challenging,' he added.

Sources wouldn't be budged on whether the new car, thought to be codenamed P8, will have a three-seat arrangement similar to that of the F1, but equally our source doggedly refused to confirm the new car as a conventional two-seater. One possibility is that the third seat would be mounted centrally towards the rear, the reverse of the F1's layout. It will be mid-engined though, partly to make it distinct from the front-engined Mercedes SLR McLaren.

Another source told evo that if the car does go ahead, it will probably have to be built by Mercedes, as McLaren's new Woking factory is tied up producing the SLR and doesn't have the spare capacity. HM The Queen officially opened the Norman Foster-designed McLaren Technology Centre last month.

evo has uncovered some of the background to the SLR project. It seems that the SLR, the brainchild of Ron Dennis, was originally designed to be the definitive GT car. Ferrari's 550 Maranello was the original target car for the project but it became clear that the SLR would be in a different league when the first projected performance figures were calculated using the higher- than-expected output from the supercharged Mercedes V8.

Using a combination of a carbonfibre body and front-mounted engine required some interesting design solutions. Running a super-hot exhaust system along the car's underside was impossible as carbon bodies don't like intense heat, so the unusual side-exit exhausts were designed. Packaging the huge silencers around the engine was a significant challenge. The gullwing door design is also a consequence of the layout, as it was necessary to keep the hinges away from the exhaust.

McLaren says that the crash performance of the carbon structure is particularly good. Only the boot's outer lid is made in glassfibre - to enable the antenna and GPS to get a signal. The body is laminated in Portsmouth and sent to Woking where it takes eight days and 200 hours to finish and paint the surface panels. (This is an indication of the expense that could be involved in building the P8 in carbonfibre. The paint costs of the McLaren F1 were also said to be very high.)

Assembling the SLR from a painted shell takes another 80 hours, or around five days on the 80-metre-long assembly line. Around 140 employees will make up to 500 SLRs each year for its planned seven-year life-cycle.

Production of the SLR takes up just 4000sq m of the 22,500sq m plant. The remainder of the space is given over to the F1 team, McLaren Electronic Systems, McLaren Marketing and McLaren Applied Technologies.

BlitZ

I will be a HUGE fan of 2005 G35 coupe Sport.. 300hp, 19 inch std, nice new interior...


Originally posted by BA-B4
Since I'm kinda dissapointed with the actual looks and features of the new Legacy here's something I'm considering instead. More expensive but worth it. New changes for the Infiniti G35 coupe and sedan.

Sedan = new front bumper, tail lights, revised interior, HP bump, to 277, 18" rims over current 17's.

Coupe = new sport package with 19's and bump in HP to 295!

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/index.jsp?epi-content=GENERIC&newsId=20040603005645&newsLang=en&beanID=202776713&viewID=news_view

So the Saab site claims that the 9-2x aero has 4-pots up front - has anyone seen one of these to confirm? Also - if they do, any idea as to the width of the front wheel? If they are the same as the WRX (6.5") maybe the brakes will work on a WRX... (since the Subaru 4-pots won't)

Last I recall the 9-2X Aero has 17" rims... so Width is not an factor in fitting the 4 pots under the Putrid WRX rims.

Originally posted by DirtDevil
Last I recall the 9-2X Aero has 17" rims... so Width is not an factor in fitting the 4 pots under the Putrid WRX rims.

are optional, not standard on all 9-2x models.

Bob

just saw that... thanks... sorry I was wrong. but man have you all seen the colors available... DANG! they are gorgeous.

And the size of the rim doesn't necessarily mean 4-pot do or don't fit. It has more to do with offset and wheel design. The current 16" WRX wheel does not clear 4-pots but, the 98-01 16" Impreza RS wheel does.

Originally posted by DrD
So the Saab site claims that the 9-2x aero has 4-pots up front - has anyone seen one of these to confirm? Also - if they do, any idea as to the width of the front wheel? If they are the same as the WRX (6.5") maybe the brakes will work on a WRX... (since the Subaru 4-pots won't)

No kidding? Sweet. More options for upgrades.

The one I saw only had 2 pots, looked like WRX brakes, but the calipers were painted silver.

Originally posted by Eby
The one I saw only had 2 pots, looked like WRX brakes, but the calipers were painted silver.

You're right. I just checked out an Aero a few minutes ago. No 4-pots that I could tell.

Originally posted by subyfanatic
The current 16" WRX wheel does not clear 4-pots but, the 98-01 16" Impreza RS wheel does.

hence my question on wheel width for the stock 16's - the WRX is 6.5", the 98-01 RS is 7"...

On the SAAB site, when you compare the Aero to the Linear, two of the differences cited are "Extra-large ventilated front disc brakes with four-piston calipers" and "Optional 5-spoke twin 17” light alloy wheels " - so based on that, it sounds like 4-pots under 16" wheels is standard...

2005 Acura RL is due to come out with a new super handling AWD - torque varies front to back as well as outside gripping wheels. Also with its 3.5 L VTEC V6 300 hp engine this could be some competition for subaru. ONe major draw will be the price - estimated at over $45K...
BUT if this thing works as well as they tout it to and if it's placed on RSX or TSX, with some hp upgrades - I will definitely be looking in a different light at those cars.
07/04 Car and Driver

Originally posted by rallyblues
2005 Acura TL is due to come out with a new super handling AWD - torque varies front to back as well as outside gripping wheels. Also with its 3.5 L VTEC V6 300 hp engine this could be some competition for subaru. ONe major draw will be the price - estimated at over $45K...
BUT if this thing works as well as they tout it to and if it's placed on RSX or TSX, with some hp upgrades - I will definitely be looking in a different light at those cars.
07/04 Car and Driver

I think you mean RL, not TL. Yep a prototype with SH-AWD was shown at the NY Auto Show in March.

Bob

And I think RL is more of a luxary sedan then a sport sedan, like the MB E500.
But if they put SH-AWD in TL, it would be really sweet...
knowing the acrua quality and their suspension tuning capability, i can see the headline on a C&D magazine:

Acrua TL SH-AWD Spec-A vs. Subaru 2.5GT Spec-B

oh... wait , Acrua doesn't exist in Japan....and Spec-B doesn't exist in US!!!!!!!

:lol:

There's already a Japanese spec Accord AWD wagon. Think of it like a TSX wagon.

http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/accord-wagon/grade-data/index.html

Originally posted by rsholland
I think you mean RL, not TL. Yep a prototype with SH-AWD was shown at the NY Auto Show in March.

Bob

Yeah the spec and price sounds just like the RL concept intruduced a couple of months ago.

how much does a rear diff rebuild cost?:lol:

now stupid people can drive fast.

come on ppl - honda is so proud of its FF tech, no way is this going to all its model lineup. i think it will only be available on its super top end cars like RL and NSX

If the SH-AWD is successful on the RL I wouldn't be suprised to see it on future Acura/Honda models. I sold Acuras for 5 years and the RL appeared to be the corporate 'guinnea pig' for new features. Examples include the First Acura to have a Navigation System (1996). Front Occupant sensing side air bag system (1999), Vehicle Stability Assist (2002), On-Star (2002), and XM Satellite Radio (2004).

The TL has XM satellite radio for 2004, and it's also a pig.

define pig..
It's front wheel drive..

http://media.gm.com/division/2005_prodinfo/pontiac/gto/index.html

PONTIAC GTO
What’s new for 2005
LS2 6.0L engine replaces LS1
400 horsepower (295 kw)
395 lb.-ft. of torque (546 Nm)
Available hood with twin air scoops
Revised rear fascia incorporating outlets for new split dual exhaust system
Polished exhaust outlet tips
Larger brake rotors and calipers
Red-painted calipers with GTO logo on front caliper
Driver foot rest
Two new colors: blue and grey

Originally posted by amdmaxx
PONTIAC GTO
What’s new for 2005
LS2 6.0L engine replaces LS1
400 horsepower (295 kw)
395 lb.-ft. of torque (546 Nm)
Available hood with twin air scoops
Revised rear fascia incorporating outlets for new split dual exhaust system
Polished exhaust outlet tips
Larger brake rotors and calipers
Red-painted calipers with GTO logo on front caliper
Driver foot rest
Two new colors: blue and grey

Did you notice that under key competitors that Dodge Charger was listed? Does GM know something that we don't?

Its not even out yet... what engine will Charger use? Hemi?

Spun by a SAAB lot over the weekend, and got a first look at the 92X, which had arrived that same day (Saturday)-they only got the one. Parked the 04 WRX right next to it, and had a little gathering of sales people to compare the cars. (From what I could tell, they knew it was a rebadging, but not much else about either car except the hp.)

To be honest, it was a nice looking car.The silver color they are using is a bit darker than the Silver metallic on the WRX. The sticker said 30K, but that included a moonroof, an all weather package (they called it a "cold" package") and 3 yrs maintenance.

So if you want to see the 92X, they're there (Boston area).

hmm i still wish we had the same suspension bits. The Car and driver i just bought brought up the point it gets 1.8 degrees of camber dialed in stock along with the sti steering rack and a retuned suspension. Nice little car, but to me not worth the extra duck sauce.

BlitZ.

My wife has an '04TL.

It's a great entry-luxury car, has all the fun toys, plenty of power, but the added weight and subtracted road feel make it seem like a 'pig' when I drive it. In fact, I happen to have it today.

Then again, most cars feel piggish compared to what I usually drive ;)

Anyone remember ATTS? Well, you can welcome it back <at the rear this time, obviously> :)

The nifty bit really being the smart controller that will be able to apportion torque so accurately IMHO. I look forward to trying it out, but not having a front diff makes me wonder if the system, even with tuorque 70% to the outside rear wheel and only 15% per each front can truly eliminate understeer in the way it has been explained to me.

To be honest I am really looking forward to trying it out.

Weight?

Originally posted by KC
Weight?

I represent that! Oops ;) :lol:

:D

Will it still look like a Cavalier? They really need to change the fascia and the taillights.

IIRC the GTO is not selling that well. Seems nice enough but still not quite competitive.

Well,
I come back from vacation and find a new thread....

Here's my first contribution to it (I would also like to see a subsection of this forum, but oh well).


Detroit's Mr. Car Guy Says Driving Is Dead
Fortune
June 14, 2004
By Bob Lutz

Recently I sat down with the editors of FORTUNE for a chat, and a question they asked was, "Are we anywhere near the day you can climb into a car on Long Island, program it to take you to your niece's house in Chicago, hit enter and execute, and after the first 100 yards, once you hit a thoroughfare, the car takes over automatically and you just sit back and enjoy the ride?"

It is a question I dread. But I had to answer truthfully: "Absolutely. We are without a doubt near that day."

You could hear a pin drop in the room. Here was a self-affirmed car guy telling a roomful of journalists, with a straight but not altogether unpained face, that sooner rather than later we'll be able to take the driver right out of the driving equation.

But look, we're already doing it with airplanes.

Northrop Grumman's Global Hawk takes off at an air base in the U.S., climbs to 50,000 feet, flies to Australia, makes an approach and lands at an Australian air base, taxis up to the ramp, where there is a grandstand filled with military officials, and shuts itself off--with no human pilot.

Is the road environment more complicated than the sky at 50,000 feet? You bet. When we drive, we have only two dimensions of freedom, rather than three, and there are a lot more vehicles on the roadways than airplanes in the sky. But this is definitely coming.

Progress here is being driven by the exponential growth of computing power and the dramatic decline in the cost of data storage. Those factors are crucial because cost is a critical issue for vehicles. We've got to be able to develop systems that are "fail safe" at an affordable price.

The necessary technology is already here. We have radar technology that can be tied to cruise control and brakes, which automatically adjusts your speed based on following distance and pre-programmed settings. It's still a little bit raw, but it does work great. The technology can allow cars and trucks to follow each other in very closely spaced caravans.

Also, suppliers are developing side-vision-based lane-departure warning systems that read the edge of the road and the white lines. And the next-generation global positioning satellite (GPS) system is going to get you down from accuracy in yards to accuracy in inches. All the technology combined will allow us to implement so-called Smart Highway systems, without having to do what we once feared would be necessary, which is to tear up every highway in order to bury wires under the pavement. With the next-generation GPS system, we won't have to change the road infrastructure one iota.

GPS can also coordinate speed with location. Let's say you're in a state with a 75-mph limit and you cross into a state with a 65-mph limit. GPS knows that and can adjust your speed accordingly. It will be able to read and pinpoint on-ramps and turnoffs, based on software programmed into the car's receiver and on the accurate position reading.
With radar-based automatic distance-sensing systems, imaging and lane-adherence technology, and the GPS system, we basically have the enablers to do fully autonomous driving.

It's not out of the question to imagine that someday soon you'll be able to start the car, punch in the appropriate settings, then swivel the front seats around and play cards and eat lunch as if you're riding on a train. All in perfect comfort and safety, all the way to that niece's place in Chicago.

Of course, as a driving enthusiast, I think all that is something of a disgrace. But it's a necessary disgrace. It will help alleviate a lot of traffic congestion and prevent a lot of accidents, assuming the system doesn't break down for any reason. And it's an idea whose time has just about come.

If pressed to estimate just how far away that time is, I'd say a working system is ten years out, implementation maybe 20 years.

By then, I guess I could just be content to ride my motorcycle if I feel the need for speed that I am allowed to control myself.

BOB LUTZ has held top jobs at Ford and Chrysler. Currently he is vice chairman of General Motors.

"I think [the technology] is a disgrace. But it will alleviate a lot of traffic."

www.newagegto.com is another source for info.

The big complaint they still have is the lack of sunroof.
I agree with those who are not excited about the exterior. The interior is quite nice however.

Secondly, the Charger was officially acknowledged by Chrylser as a real car. It is a sedan based on the magnum I have heard.

Originally posted by rrudorf
Secondly, the Charger was officially acknowledged by Chrylser as a real car. It is a sedan based on the magnum I have heard.

Yes, it will be Chrysler's 300C's sister or cousin or whatever relative you want to identify it with :)

LS2 details

Compared to the Gen III-based LS1, the 2005 GTO’s LS2 V-8 incorporates several significant changes to help improve performance. The block is an all-new casting with cylinder bores measuring 4.00 inches (101.6 mm) in diameter. The cylinder heads and camshaft are revised, too, to deliver the airflow necessary to complement the engine’s larger displacement. Other changes include:

New aluminum block casting with revised oil galleries and provisions for external knock sensors – external sensors improve serviceability
Camshaft lift increased to take advantage of increased cylinder head flow
Camshaft sensor relocated from the rear of the block to the front of the block provides room for new oil galleries
Flat-top piston design with lower ring tension reduces friction
Piston floating wrist pins help quiet the engine
More efficient ignition coils require less energy to provide a comparable spark
Compression raised to 10.9:1
Larger, 90-mm single-blade throttle body
Reduced-mass water pump design with improved sealing capability
Engine “redline” raised to 6500 rpm
Revised and more powerful engine controller incorporates all electronic throttle control functions.

PUT THIS GM CRAP IN THE NON-SUBARU NEWS THANKS

I don't think GM needs to worry about the Charger that much... they need to worry about the rumored SRT-8, which again is rumored to have 425-450HP with a 6.1 engine.... lol.

One nice thing about the Saab pricing is that the Sport Package which includes the 17" wheels, WAY better tires, and the moonroof is $1950, which is a pretty good deal. I just wish one didn't have to order leather to get the HID lights!

However I think Saab's warranty which is nice in that it is a 4/50 bumper to bumper does NOT have the extended 5 year powertrain warranty. Strange.

Originally posted by only1agam
PUT THIS GM CRAP IN THE NON-SUBARU NEWS THANKS

Or, skip the thread and go on with life peacefully.

I still kind of like the GTO, at least as far as looks go. The original started out as a kind of stealthy sports car that would whip your ass without looking like it could. The new one's the same. nothing really flashy, but it's got a lot going for it. Might have to try to get a test drive over the summer.

My wife has an ‘04 CRV with the Honda version of AWD, the so called “real-time AWD”. I don’t like it as well as my Subaru’s AWD. If you take of briskly from a full stop in the Honda you still get a little jerk of wheel spin before the computer can switch on the AWD. For a car with a sporting nature, I would prefer always on AWD so the power gets to the ground right away.

Originally posted by unity
My wife has an ‘04 CRV with the Honda version of AWD, the so called “real-time AWD”.

That system is often called "poor man's AWD". Computer detects rear axle slip, it activates a relay which connects the rear axle to the 'center differential' to get the power. The whole system works poorly. The AWD used in Pilot and MDX is better but still works like FWD most of time. However the AWD differential oil needs to be changed every a few thousand miles from what I know.

It remains to be seen how well this new SH-AWD works. Almost all the car manufaturers invented some fancy AWD systems on paper, only a few turns out really worked well in real world.

Infiniti G35 Sport Coupe and Sport Sedan Offer Enhanced Performance, Refined Interiors for 2005
SAN FRANCISCO--June 3, 2004--Infiniti, Nissan's luxury division, today announced a number of significant enhancements to its popular G35 sport coupe and G35 sport sedan for the 2005 model year in North America. The changes include the introduction of a new coupe Sport model, a redesigned exterior appearance for the sedan and a redesigned instrument panel and console area with aluminum trim or optional wood trim on both the 2005 G35 coupe and G35 sedan.


Another major enhancement for the new model year is an increase in power for all G35 sedans to 277 horsepower and 270 lb-ft of torque (from 260 hp/260 lb-ft). The G35 sedan lineup, which added a new all-wheel drive version in the 2004 model year, also receives new exterior styling for 2005 -- featuring a new hood, grille, bumpers, side sills, taillights and wheels.

The G35 coupe's new Sport model will be available in an advanced 5-speed automatic transmission or with a close-ratio 6-speed manual transmission. The Sport 6MT model receives an additional 15-plus horsepower over automatic-equipped G35 coupe's standard 280 horsepower, bringing its power to the 295-horsepower range (final figures to be released later).

In addition, the manual transmission design on both coupe and sedan models has been improved to provide a lower shifting effort.

The 2005 G35 sedan will be offered in four models, each equipped with a standard 3.5-liter V6, 4-wheel independent suspension and the refined exterior. For 2005, the sport-tuned suspension package has been upgraded with 18-inch lightweight cast aluminum wheels with 235/45R18 tires and drilled aluminum pedals.

The G35 coupe will be offered in three models for 2005: Coupe, Coupe Sport A/T and Coupe Sport 6MT. Both Sport models include a new sport-tuned suspension, Viscous Limited-Slip Differential (V-LSD), 19-inch forged aluminum-alloy wheels and drilled aluminum pedals.

"Infiniti built its reputation on a stunning combination of powerful rear-wheel and all-wheel drive vehicles and outstanding customer service," said Mark Igo, vice president and general manager, Infiniti Division. "The G35 has been a key element in our recent product line expansion and with the enhancements for 2005, our product momentum remains strong."

The 2005 Infiniti G35 sedan and coupe with automatic transmissions are scheduled to be available at Infiniti dealers in North America beginning in October 2004. Manual transmission equipped models will go on sale in December 2004.

The announcement came during the Nissan 360 news media event, a three-week program in San Francisco featuring the automaker's current and future worldwide product and business plans. At the event, about 500 reporters had the opportunity to drive nearly 70 Nissan and Infiniti vehicles to familiarize themselves with the breadth of Nissan's global product lineup.

http://www.autoweek.com/weekart/2004/0531/0531t-cts7.jpg
From the exterior, little distinguishes the Mallett from the standard silver CTS-V. (All photos © 2004 Jim Fets)
MALLETT CADILLAC CTS-V
ON SALE: Now
BASE PRICE: $66,495 (including $16,500 Mallett performance package)
POWERTRAIN: 5.7-liter, 471-hp, 433-lb-ft V8; rwd, six-speed manual
CURB WEIGHT: 3890 pounds
0 TO 60 MPH: 4.3 seconds (mfr.)

This speaks volumes: as we sit idling at a rural intersection waiting for traffic to clear for our Cadillac CTS-V, we can't help but notice a teenage boy all but ejecting himself from a passing school bus window, pumping his arms to get our attention. When, we ask, was the last time anyone under 20-hell, anyone under 50-really noticed anything with a Cadillac crest on its grille?

Times have changed. Cadillacs, even Cadillac sedans, are cool again, and worthy of attention, acclamation and, yes, even tuning. While Cadillac is responsible for laying the foundation for this renaissance with its hip-hop-friendly Escalades, Corvette-based XLRs and Nürburgring-bred CTS sedans, we have to admit that the car provoking the grinning middle-schooler's double thumbs-up is no garden-variety CTS, or even an ordinary CTS-V. This rumbling, low-slung, black-lacquered beast is the 2004 Mallett CTS-V, a 471-hp version of the Corvette-powered performance CTS-V now on sale at your Cadillac dealer.

http://www.autoweek.com/weekart/2004/0531/0531ctsv_main.jpg

Picking up where GM engineers leave off with the CTS-V, Mallett reworks the 5.7-liter LS6 V8 heads with custom ports and adds a special cam and valve springs with lightweight spring retainers. A performance stainless-steel exhaust system completes the modifications that boost the horsepower by 71 over the 400-hp stock CTS-V; torque increases by 38 to 433 lb-ft at 4600 rpm.

Suspension modifications are limited to beefier front and rear antiroll bars and a three-quarter-inch-lower ride height, a tribute to the base car's already strong platform. Steering is enhanced to allow more immediate response and a tighter turning radius, despite an upgrade from standard 18-inch CTS-V tires to wider 19-inch wheels and tires (though at lock the tires sometimes lightly scrub the wheel wells).

Mallett's billet short shifter improves on the already competent shifter in the CTS-V, providing noticeably more precise control over the Tremac T56 six- speed gearbox.

The car's large stock brake rotors (13.9-inch fronts, 14.3-inch rears) are slotted and then the rotors and pads, along with the clutch plate and clutch disc, are cryogenically treated (read: frozen) to minus 300 degrees Fahrenheit, not once but twice, in a process traditionally used to harden military artillery barrels. Owner Chuck Mallett says the treatment improves brake and clutch response and increases service life, but he and Mallett engineer Dave Sarafian admit they're really not sure what the process does to the treated parts.

http://www.autoweek.com/weekart/2004/0531/0531t-cts2.jpg

"It's a black art," says Sarafian.

Mallett badging, understated but evident, adorns the car's fenders, decklid and wheel centers; inside, seat headrests get Mallett embroidery, and each car comes with a Mallett serial number plaque and aluminum shifter ring. Mallett proudly notes his "serialized" conversion cars are built to a high enough standard that they receive a separate listing in NADA appraisal guides-some comfort to those spending big bucks on conversions with no sense of how much the car will be worth a few years down the road. Mallett also warranties his conversions for two years or 24,000 miles.

Is it all worth the $66,495 a Mallett-prepped CTS will set you back? After putting a few hundred miles on a CTS-V, followed by some street and track time in the Mallett CTS-V, we agree with that enthusiastic, arm-waving teenager. As much as we like what Cadillac has done with its performance CTS-V-which is good enough to draw stoplight dares from (gasp!) BMW M5 owners-this Mallett-tuned model would rise to that challenge even more. At 3890 pounds and 471 hp, the Mallett CTS-V's power-to-weight ratio takes on all comers, working out to 8.3 pounds per hp, which outdoes the C5 Corvette (9.2 pounds per hp), Mercedes E55 AMG (8.5 pounds) and-you guessed it-the M5 (10.2 pounds). On paper, the Mallett CTS-V's 4.3-second 0-to-60-mph time would readily dispatch the M5s of the world, but is it really that good?

Mallett thinks so-and his pedigree supports his assertion. The longtime Corvette tuner, whose Berea, Ohio, shop is lined with race-tuned Vettes, was champing at the bit two years ago to help develop the V version of the CTS. Mallett's shop worked on powertrain bits for the V, but Mallett didn't stop there. "I love the Cadillac program-it's the first time you have a four-door domestic sedan that runs like a sports car. It's a badassed Cadillac, that's all there is to it."

Running the racetrack at nearby Nelson Ledges (quickly, while a cycle racing clinic is on a lunch break), we find the Mallett CTS-V offers considerably more punch than the standard CTS-V, which itself is no slouch. We ran the car hard in "competitive driving mode," which shuts down all but the fail-safe stability and yaw controls, and found it easy to handle, not the major handful we expected based on experience in other top-end tuner models. The car's power is matched by its almost perfectly neutral handling. Steering is straight, true and responsive, yet without any sense of twitching and tramming we might expect with the optional extra-wide 275/35-19 Michelin Pilot Sport tires combined with super-sensitive steering. The beefy four-pot Brembos on the standard CTS-V are bled for maximum pedal response and it shows when immediate stopping power is demanded. But like the steering, the brakes aren't overly touchy in regular use.

http://autoweek.com/weekart/2004/0531/0531t-cts5.jpg

Mallett's model comes with an extra 71 horses under the hood.

Comparisons are hard to come by, but here is one that makes sense, not so much as a direct comparison between cars of different caliber, but at least as a way to understand CTS degrees of separation: Audi A6, S6 and RS6. While the base CTS is no A6 fighter, and the CTS-V would be hard-pressed to woo an S6 buyer, like the RS6 the Mallett CTS-V sits atop the heap, a refined rocket ship ready to run a racetrack one day and deal with the daily commute the next. No need to don your fire-retardant suit and driving shoes or strap on your kidney belt for every tour of duty; this super-tuned V is just as conducive to suit, tie and briefcase.

For those who need even more, Mallett offers a range of upgrades, including 6.1-liter and 7.0-liter V8 setups (515 and 580 hp, respectively) with billet cranks, rods and forged pistons. Still not enough? Building on those engines, Mallett adds turbos that push output to 615 hp for the 6.1-liter engine and up to 750 hp for the 7.0-liter. If you're looking at those options, be ready to add another $30,000 to your check made out to Mallett.

Other options include Mallett/Penske nonadjustable or double-adjustable custom shock absorbers, coilover suspension setups, competition brakes (with 14-inch front rotors), one- or three-piece forged aluminum wheels, performance tires, performance exhaust systems and body mods (front splitter, fender flares, custom hood and decklid, spoiler).

http://www.autoweek.com/weekart/2004/0531/0531ctsv_rear.jpg

We've heard reports out of Germany that Cadillac performance engineers are running the 'Ring, readying their own CTS-V "Plus," a supercharged 480-hp car aimed squarely at the next-generation 500-hp M5 due next year as an '06 model. But for those who want a domestic M5-tamer today, the Mallett CTS-V package is available and can be ordered through Mallett (mallettcars.com) or through select Cadillac dealers nationwide.

Yeah, it will cut into your lunch money, but it will have you grinning like a school kid in no time.

Originally posted by only1agam
PUT THIS GM CRAP IN THE NON-SUBARU NEWS THANKS

PLEASE!!

Originally posted by amdmaxx
PONTIAC GTO
What’s new for 2005
.
.
.
Available hood with twin air scoops
.
.
.


Is it a twin-turbo? :lol: :lol: :lol:

http://www.autoweek.com/specials/galleries/a3/images/4.jpg

http://www.autoweek.com/specials/galleries/a3/images/3.jpg

http://www.autoweek.com/specials/galleries/a3/images/6.jpg

http://www.autoweek.com/specials/galleries/a3/images/5.jpg

It will interesting to see how the new Impreza based 9-2 matches up to the new BMW 1 series and Audi A3, this should point the direction of the next generation of Subaru's Impreza's.
Alpha1

Originally posted by Alpha1
http://www.autoweek.com/specials/galleries/a3/images/4.jpg

http://www.autoweek.com/specials/galleries/a3/images/3.jpg

http://www.autoweek.com/specials/galleries/a3/images/6.jpg

http://www.autoweek.com/specials/galleries/a3/images/5.jpg

This, equipped with a 260hp+ engine, AWD and a SMG, could cause me to ditch the WRX wagon...

Originally posted by Coati
This, equipped with a 260hp+ engine, AWD and a SMG, could cause me to ditch the WRX wagon...

It could all be yours for $35,000

:lol:

How about DSG? I expect that car would cost more than an STi. Of course, you still might consider it given the availability of the STi wagon ;).

Originally posted by crash
It could all be yours for $35,000

:lol: :furious: :(















;)

Having owned and loved both a Legacy & WRX, the GTO is just a completely different animal.

The turbo rush and all-wheel drive was great but the overall package and power of the GTO is much easier to live with everyday. V-8, rear wheel drive & GTO rumble is very addicting.

Just my .02.....

Love those GTO's. I might even test drive one if it came with 4 doors...

Looks like GM pulled the web site.. But facts spilled..

The Charger was officially annouced yesterday.

Chrysler group unveils 3 products
Reuters / June 03, 2004

FRANKFURT -- DaimlerChrysler stock outpaced other automakers' shares on Thursday after an analyst meeting in Detroit, during which the Chrysler group unveiled three products.

"We believe the (analysts) day supports one of the key pillars of our 'overweight' investment thesis for DaimlerChrysler," Morgan Stanley wrote in a note to clients on Thursday.

"Fundamentals of the Chrysler division are turning the corner despite the continued challenges in the U.S. light- vehicle market."

Merrill Lynch analyst Stephen Reitman said in a research note that the Chrysler group showed off for the first time three vehicles set to hit the market in 2005 or 2006.

These were a large Jeep Commander built on the Jeep Grand Cherokee platform due next year, a new C-segment Sebring sedan co-developed with Mitsubishi Motors to be launched in 2006 and a Dodge Charger sedan built on the Chrysler 300 platform.

"All three models seemed attractive and winning," he wrote, but the car maker still faced intense competition from rivals also bent on rolling out new products into a market where generous incentives have become mandatory to sell cars.

Morgan Stanley added that the Chrysler group expected capital spending to remain at, or under, 5 percent of sales.

"This level of spending, while in line with the capex/sales percentage for the group in 2003, is lower than many global competitors and is below the European sector spending range of six to seven percent," the bank wrote.

DaimlerChrysler officials were not immediately available to comment on Wednesday's presentation.

More details about the charger:

CHRYSLER TO LAUNCH THREE NEW VEHICLES
Sebring stand-in, Hummer-like SUV, Charger planned

DaimlerChrysler AG’s Chrysler Group has been keeping mum about the automaker’s future product lineup, but company executives tipped their hands this week, confirming plans for three new models for the Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep brands.

In a meeting with financial analysts Wednesday, Chrysler executives said they plan to revive the famous Dodge Charger fastback as a sedan and build a new full-size sport utility vehicle called the Jeep Commander. The company also provided details about the replacement for the Chrysler Sebring sedan, which is being developed with Mitsubishi Motors Corp. and could be sold under a different name.

While speculation has been rampant about the Commander and Charger, Wednesday marked the first time that Chrysler publicly said the vehicles will be produced.

Analysts say the automaker is also working on new entry-level SUVs for the Jeep and Dodge brands, as well as a small sport wagon for Dodge to replace the Neon compact car.

The new products are part of a campaign to bolster sales after three years of cost-cutting by giving Chrysler much-needed competitors in fast-growing segments. In 2001, Chrysler CEO Dieter Zetsche set a goal of increasing global car and truck sales by 1 million units to 4 million by 2011.

Chrysler is introducing nine new vehicles this year and has promised 16 more new cars and trucks by the end of 2006. Though the company will not discuss product plans for 2005 and 2006, analysts who follow the automaker are crafting a picture of what is on the way.

Michael Bruynesteyn of Prudential Equity Group in New York described the Charger, Commander and Sebring replacement in a report released Thursday. He attended the analyst meeting Wednesday at Chrysler headquarters in Auburn Hills.

The Jeep Commander is 4.5 inches taller than the popular Jeep Grand Cherokee and more square and upright, “bearing some resemblance to GM’s Hummer H2,” Bruynesteyn wrote. It will share the same underpinnings as the Grand Cherokee, but will have three rows of seats and should debut during the third quarter of 2005, he said.

The Sebring replacement, expected in 2006, is taller and wider than the current model, with notable “cat eye” headlights and “employs some styling cues from the Chrysler Crossfire” sports car, Bruynesteyn said. The mid-size passenger car is being jointly developed with Japan’s Mitsubishi Motors, which is partly owned by DaimlerChrysler.

The Charger has the same interior and underbody as the Dodge Magnum wagon, “but the exterior sheet metal is completely different,” he said.

First produced in 1966, the Charger was long considered Chrysler’s premier muscle car and is probably best known for its starring role as the General Lee in TV’s “The Dukes of Hazzard.”

Mike Wall, an analyst with CSM Worldwide in Grand Rapids, said the new Charger, due on the market as early as next spring, should be a good addition to the Dodge lineup, which phased out the full-size Intrepid passenger sedan last year.

“They clearly recognized the need to get a competitor back in that sedan segment,” he said.

Late 2005 should bring a replacement for the Dodge Neon compact car, which will look quite different from its predecessor, said Rebecca Lindland, an analyst with Global Insight in Lexington, Mass.

“They’re not replacing the Neon with a traditional sedan,” she said.

The new Neon will take the shape of a wagon, similar in size to the Pontiac Vibe or Toyota Matrix, she said.

Although the next-generation Neon is also being developed with Mitsubishi, “it’s still going to be a Chrysler through and through,” CSM’s Wall said. But “from everything we’ve heard, it’s going to get a new name.”

In 2006, the Jeep brand is also expected to get a small SUV based on the Compass concept vehicle shown at the Detroit auto show in 2002, as well as a new version of the open-top Wrangler.

In addition, a new Dodge SUV based on the Jeep Liberty should hit the market by late 2006, analysts said.

A replacement is also expected in 2006 for the mid-size Dodge Stratus sedan, as is a refreshed version of the PT Cruiser. A completely redesigned PT Cruiser won’t be in showrooms until 2008, analysts said.

“Our future products will continue to offer breakthrough designs and innovative engineering at affordable prices,” said David Barnas, a spokesman for Chrysler, who declined to provide specifics about upcoming vehicles. “Each new vehicle will stand out from the competition and remain consistent with each brand’s DNA.”

Chrysler is also moving to reduce the number of basic vehicle architectures it uses from 12 to three by 2008 to make the company’s factories more flexible.

If the new crop of Chrysler vehicles out this year is any indication of where the automaker is heading, the future should be promising, said Jim Sourges, vice president of consultant Capgemini’s automotive practice in Detroit. “They’re getting some fresh product out there that’s appealing to consumers, much akin to what Nissan’s done in the last year and a half.”

Originally posted by mh_WRX
Infiniti G35 Sport Coupe and Sport Sedan Offer Enhanced Performance, Refined Interiors for 2005

http://www.nissannews.com/multimedia/infiniti2005/g35/800px/003_2005_g35_sedan.jpg
http://www.nissannews.com/multimedia/infiniti2004/g35/800px/g3505.jpg
http://www.nissannews.com/multimedia/infiniti2005/g35/800px/002_2005_g35_interior.jpg

I was just asked about this so I thought I would publish this for all to see:


Camaro coming?
Faced with the imminent introduction of an already highly praised all-new 2005 Mustang this fall and nothing in the showroom to do battle with it, General Motors is eyeing a return to the pony car wars. So says Chevrolet general manager Brent Dewar when asked about plans for a future Mustang fighter. Says Dewar: “We’re working on that. We’ll have a competitor.”

We’ll see.


Right now it appears the plan is to build it off the new Zeta platform (Shortened from the 07 GTO use) and share many components with the 07 GTO including the LS2.

This is a little old, but I don't recall reading it here before. So I'll take a chance and repost this article from http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/ae_news_story.php?id=46042 here.Tuesday 20th April 2004
Revealed: Saab's Secret 9-4X

You simply can't keep Saab on the road anymore. Auto Express has discovered secret plans for an off-road 4x4 with coupé-like styling. It's expected to be called the 9-4X, and will be a crossover - a vehicle that combines the driveability of a car with the practicality and versatility of an MPV or SUV.

The news came as company boss Peter Augustsson unveiled the 9-7X - itself a crossover - at the New York Motor Show (image). We've had an exclusive sneak preview of the design sketches of the newcomer, and although we can't publish them, there's nothing to stop us telling you about the car.

The model is sleek and low-roofed, with a wide track and big wheelarches. The styling of the signature three-hole Saab grille has also been developed, with the two outer 'nostrils' now merging into the headlamp clusters.

Saab design chief Michael Mauer said the car was planned "for the near future, and will be a similar size to the 9-7X", but lower overall. It will be based on a new Subaru - which is currently under development in Japan - and will be designed to perform exceptionally well on-road. Thanks to the Far Eastern manufacturer's highly regarded four-wheel-drive system, the Saab will also have first-rate mud-plugging ability.

The joint venture follows in the footsteps of the recently unveiled 9-2X crossover, which is essentially a rebadged Impreza estate. But unlike that car, the 9-4X will get a bespoke body as well as its own cabin design. The newcomer is expected to be seen in concept form at January's Detroit Motor Show, before going into production in late 2005 for a 2006 launch. Hilton HollowayOther sites claim this is a picture of the Saab 9-4X:
http://lenta.ru:8000/auto/2004/04/23/saab/picture.jpg

That pic looks like an old Saab concept car. No way that is based on the Subie 7-pass. Look at the size and (lack of) ground clearance.

So the long-term plan is for Saab to become the luxury division of Subaru? How long will people keep buying Saabs when they are all rebadged Subies?

Well they've mostly been rebadged Chevies for several years now, so maybe it's an improvement. ;)

-S2-

Originally posted by Jon [in CT]
Other sites claim this is a picture of the Saab 9-4X:
http://lenta.ru:8000/auto/2004/04/23/saab/picture.jpg

Mother of God!:lol: Is its code name the "Durante" or the "Streisand?"

If that really is based on a Subaru, it looks most like the B11S' platform to me.

If it IS based on a future Sub, it has to be the B11S.

Curiously, the buzz in Sweden itself is centered on this article which was published a few days earlier on Apr 15, 2004: http://www.nyteknik.se/art/34215.
Here's what I think the article says. Subaru will build a new SUV for Saab, with room for seven. It's called the 9-6x and is intended as an answer to the Volvo XC90. It'll be built in Indiana and will be sold in Europe, unlike the 9-2x. A first prototype will be presented in Detroit next January at the NAIAS. Also mentioned is that SIA has the capacity to build 230,000 vehicles a year and that GM might want to rebadge a version of this SUV as a Buick. Its 6-cylinder boxer engine is expected to produce 300 hp, but it will be lighter and more fuel-efficient than the 9-7x. Saab refused to comment for the article. There's also an artist's rendering:
http://www.nyteknik.se/bilder/bildarkiv/S9-6xny.jpg

Maybe I need to ask MartinPhilip to translate. :)

for those who read chinese...

http://www.autonet.com.tw/cgi-bin/news/news_view.cgi?qry=a4060133

sorry, don't know how to post pictures...

Start rant - Saab must DIE!!! They are doing nothing more than raping Subaru's hard work!! - End rant

With that momentary burst of immaturity aside, I believe both stories are correct although they may have crossed wires somewhere.

I have been told by sources within Subaru that the 7-seater is not the only new Subaru planned for next year. I was told specifically "a convertible" would also be coming out (B9SC?). Maybe that converitble refers to a converitble B11S which has been undergoing some design changes from what I understand?

By the description of the Saab coupe, it DEFINETELY seems to indictate B11S! The XUV sketch looks very much like the old wx-01 concept car from Subaru which also was a 7-seater and probably a strong basis for the new vehicle. The WX-01 and B11S also seem to share the same platform from what I can tell. Keep in mind, there have been strong hints of a "premium" car based on the 7-seater so this might be the case! Saab may be raping Subaru twice on this one...

What does Subaru get from Saab in exchange? Food for thought...

Subaru gets to sell more cars than they might have otherwise. Don't forget Subaru is building the cars so Saab has to give most of the money from sales back to Subaru.

Plus Saab engineers may be helping Subaru. Apparently some of the suspension tweaks for the 9-2x are going to make it back into the WRX eventually.

Fuji Heavy Industries is benefiting from all this (making more cars sold as Saabs), and so is probably the Subaru brand. Saab still has some prestige, so the news that "Subarus are also sold as Saabs" might improve Subaru's image. The only one "raped" here are Subaru dealers and the US distributor, SOA, but even they might benefit long-term from FHI raking in the funds for product development.

All in all, I see all the Saabarus as good news. Remember, just a couple years ago there were fears that Subarus would be based on Chevys. Instead, the other way around, a luxury brand is based on Subarus.

Originally posted by bblacha
The only one "raped" here are Subaru dealers and the US distributor, SOA.

I'm not even sure about that. I doubt many 9-2x buyers would consider an Impreza instead so I doubt Subie dealers are losing many sales to Saab.

Originally posted by Jon [in CT]
Subaru will build a new SUV for Saab, with room for seven. It's called the 9-6x and is intended as an answer to the Volvo XC90.

If the Subie version is going to be 40k it should already be comparable to the XC90. Is the Saab version going to compete at roughly the same price point? :confused: That would kill sales of the Subie. OTOH if the Saab is 50k it will be a tough sell.

edit: XC 90 prices start in the mid 30s so I am really not seeing how the Subie can sell at 40

Originally posted by hhcchen
for those who read chinese...

http://www.autonet.com.tw/cgi-bin/news/news_view.cgi?qry=a4060133

sorry, don't know how to post pictures...

http://www.auto-online.com.tw/cgi-bin/class.fcgi

sorry, try this again...:furious:

Originally posted by hhcchen
http://www.auto-online.com.tw/cgi-bin/class.fcgi

sorry, try this again...:furious:

I can't read chinese, but that looks like the same platform as the Volvo S40 / Mazda3 / etc.

Mark.

Originally posted by Mike Wevrick
If the Subie version is going to be 40k it should already be comparable to the XC90. Is the Saab version going to compete at roughly the same price point? :confused: That would kill sales of the Subie. OTOH if the Saab is 50k it will be a tough sell.

edit: XC 90 prices start in the mid 30s so I am really not seeing how the Subie can sell at 40

but i believe that is for the 2wd model in the mid 30s

Originally posted by Mike Wevrick
I'm not even sure about that. I doubt many 9-2x buyers would consider an Impreza instead so I doubt Subie dealers are losing many sales to Saab.

BINGO! Subaru is essentially creating its own competition. Sure they get money for it, but the Subaru name could go extinct altogether if this keeps up!

Originally posted by Mike Wevrick
I'm not even sure about that. I doubt many 9-2x buyers would consider an Impreza instead so I doubt Subie dealers are losing many sales to Saab.

Yeah, but I really want a WRX wagon with HID, sunroof, better tires and better soundproofing, and the 9-2X is just that car. What I don't want is a Saab, so I'm torn whether to buy it. If Subaru offered the WRX wagon in that trim, I'd buy it in a minute.

2005 FORD GT JOINS RANKS OF WORLD'S FASTEST CARS WITH A 205 MPH TOP SPEED

http://www.theautochannel.com/N/F/news/2004/06/08/198949.1.jpg

The Ford GT engineering team certifies 205mph top speed during high-speed stability and powertrain durability testing at Italy's Nardo test track. The Ford GT is the fastest production road car ever produced to wear the Ford badge. DEARBORN, Mich., June 7 - Just as the Ford GT40 was the first race car to break the 200mph barrier at LeMans, the new 2005 Ford GT has become the first production road car wearing the Ford badge to achieve top speed in excess of 200mph. During engineering testing for high-speed stability and powertrain durability at Italy's famed Nardo test facility, the Ford GT reached a certified top speed of 205mph. In 1966, a GT40 reached a trap speed of 201mph on the Mulsanne Straight during the 24 Hours of LeMans endurance race, and now the new Ford GT continues that legend by again breaking new ground.

"The engineering team has once again outdone themselves," said John Coletti, director of Ford SVT programs. "This is a major accomplishment and puts the Ford GT among the ranks of the greatest sports cars in history."

The Ford GT engineering team took two cars to the Nardo test facility to conduct high-speed stability evaluations and run a 500-mile powertrain durability test. Aerodynamics and high-speed stability has been a major focus of the engineering program from the very beginning, when the team first tested an original GT40 in the wind tunnel. The GT40 exhibited major lift at high speeds, and the team determined that the Ford GT would also have the same issue if care was not taken to attend to the problem. In order to not disturb the well-executed exterior design, the engineering team limited aerodynamic changes primarily to the underside of the vehicle. As a result, a subtle rear spoiler extension, front and side splitters and venturi tunnels wrapped under the rear clip are the only visible changes.

"Driving the Ford GT at speeds above 200mph was remarkably uneventful, which is a very positive outcome," said Mark McGowan, Ford GT vehicle dynamics supervisor and driver during the Nardo testing. "I was able to drive the around the 13km track with my foot to the floor with complete confidence in the stability and control of the car at 200mph plus. My only limitation was the amount of fuel in the tank!"

The 550 hp 5.4-liter DOHC supercharged V-8 engine was also put to the test during the Nardo trip. The engineering team required a 500-mile test at or near maximum velocity speeds to prove-out the strength and durability of the powertrain. Not only did the engine exhibit strong acceleration all the way to the 205mph top speed, but it passed the durability test without any significant problems.

"The Ford GT is performing at levels of super exotic sports cars that cost 3 and 4 times as much money, and it still meets all the engineering and quality requirements of any Ford vehicle program," stated Coletti. "That is no small feat, but a showcase of the passion and talent that resides within the Company."

The 2005 Ford GT will be built at Ford's Wixom (Mich.) Assembly Plant. Production will begin this summer.

http://www.cardesignnews.com/news/2004/040605whats-new/index.html

http://www.cardesignnews.com/news/2004/040605whats-new/images/renault-fluence7741.jpg

http://www.cardesignnews.com/news/2004/040605whats-new/images/renault-fluence7740.jpg

http://www.cardesignnews.com/news/2004/040605whats-new/images/renault-fluence7768.jpg

Renault Fluence

Renault’s latest concept car made its debut June 5 at the Louis Vuitton Classic Concours d'Elegance in England. Fluence is an upmarket four-seater sports coupé, with flowing bodywork and a welcoming interior embracing the simplicity and sensuality of the car's form. Renault design chief Patrick le Quément sees Fluence as “the continuation of a long tradition of outstanding French coachbuilders.”

Fluence expresses Renault’s vision of a key theme in automobiles: that of upmarket, four-seater coupés. "Fluence is both a drawing and a sculpture. It blends bearing, generosity, elegance and fluidity. It is a modern expression of the principle that underlies all coupés: pleasure of movement,” explains Patrick le Quément. The 4.60-metre long coupé features voluptuous forms sculpted from simple, structured lines.

The frontal design is streamlined: the radiator grille is absent to focus attention on the Renault lozenge logo and to evoke other prestigious Renault cars.

“Fluence’s interior is simple and easily remembered, with natural harmony,” explains Patrick le Quément. The printed leather seats are mounted on runners. The sides of the seat back and cushion fan out when the doors are opened. The lateral seat supports can then be adjusted to suit individual preferences. The door armrests, which are also on runners, adjust their position in conjunction with the seats.

Fluence features a front-mounted 3.5 litre V6 petrol engine developing 280hp.

Alpha1

Should there be a specific section on this site for the 9-2x just like there is for the lecacy, forester, etc?

why, it's not a subaru :confused:

Originally posted by CalcVictim
why, it's not a subaru :confused:

WOW

oh, and thats a good question... while it isnt technically an Impreza, it... is. Bizzare, maybe there should be a 9-2x forum. Though I doubt any 9-2x owners would come onto nasioc for information.

Originally posted by CalcVictim
why, it's not a subaru :confused:

umm...it is a subaru...just in swedish clothing...a man in drag is still a man...well maybe not a man...but a MALE!!!

Why would there be a 9-2x forum? All of their problems/complaints could be found in the other forums?

Originally posted by STI Orenji
umm...it is a subaru...just in swedish clothing...a man in drag is still a man...well maybe not a man...but a MALE!!!

even worse, saab is owned by GM!!! so its a GM WRX! run for your lives!

Interesting idea; the Snaabs on the Saab forums hate the 9-2x and it will have some unique features.

i guess talking about it in the general forum works...i like it btw

Heh, I think I was thinking about this today but it got lost in my other thoughts.

I guess if a 9-2X owner wants to improve their vehicle's performance then they'll just visit WRX forums and buy parts designated for the WRX.

I had a '98 Mazda 626, if I wanted to look for parts for that car I'd look under either Ford Probe or Mazda MX6 if the dealer didn't have Mazda 626 listed.

Originally posted by djoye
Heh, I think I was thinking about this today but it got lost in my other thoughts.

I guess if a 9-2X owner wants to improve their vehicle's performance then they'll just visit WRX forums and buy parts designated for the WRX.

I had a '98 Mazda 626, if I wanted to look for parts for that car I'd look under either Ford Probe or Mazda MX6 if the dealer didn't have Mazda 626 listed.

im sure we will see some saabaru owners asking questions about modding and stuff...being snubbed buy your own kind sucks for those sabb owners

Maybe we can add on. . " Saabura" forum under other?:lol:

Ford Focus Concept
Pictures available here :

http://www.auto-online.com.tw/album/1086689300.jpg

http://www.auto-online.com.tw/album/1086689340.jpg

look exactly like a honda :huh:

BlitZ

i've always heard ford likes to copy audi and now i believe it

there is civic written all over the rear and front as well

http://wwwstu.tcu.edu/~mjredic/focus3.jpg

Originally posted by ADR 04STi
Maybe an entire new forum @ saabaru.com/forum :lol:

misleading link dude...better redo it so its not a link...like that

Well, I have to say that I was expecting to burnt to a crisp by now. I was thinking about this at work and thought it would bring up some interesting ideas from everybody. I really don't have an opinion either way, so I'll argue both sides. For: It is technically a Subaru no matter what disguise it is wearing. There will be specific problems to the Saab that we have yet to foresee. Plus, what about the folks who mod there Saabs with WRX and STI parts? Against: it is made by the bowtie. Is anymore discussion needed. Besides, let them start their own forum.

Originally posted by fourdegrees
Well, I have to say that I was expecting to burnt to a crisp by now. I was thinking about this at work and thought it would bring up some interesting ideas from everybody. I really don't have an opinion either way, so I'll argue both sides. For: It is technically a Subaru no matter what disguise it is wearing. There will be specific problems to the Saab that we have yet to foresee. Plus, what about the folks who mod there Saabs with WRX and STI parts? Against: it is made by the bowtie. Is anymore discussion needed. Besides, let them start their own forum.

No matter what, it's a GM WRX, so therefore we don't need a forum for it.

btw. the bowtie is Chevy not GM.

I am aware thank you.

Please do not read this. . .I flubbed.

Originally posted by ADR 04STi
"On the other hand. . you have different fingers"
Andy

Originally posted by fourdegrees
I am aware thank you.

No problem, didn't mean to sound like an ass.

Looks like a Monaro

Audi was my first thought.

Ford makes me mad. Let's face it, the Focus SVT is a dog. Not only that, but I read that the SVT team is even dropping the Focus SVT to "focus" on other performance models.

If you think about it though, Ford would never release a nice Focus stateside though... can't upstage their precious Mustang. I know that the WRC has a very small fanbase in the US, but I'm sure they could draw alot of interest in a peppy Focus Focus "Rallyesport" type car with AWD/Turbo. :(

I do really like what they've done with the 05 Mustang, but living in the Northeast, I'd rather have an WRX or STi though (think inclement weather). That's why I'm currently saving for an STi. :devil:

GM owns 20% of Subaru.

Originally posted by firecordz
even worse, saab is owned by GM!!! so its a GM WRX! run for your lives!

Originally posted by rossman
GM owns 20% of Subaru.
I think GM owns 20% of FHI, which owns Subaru, IIRC. But yeah, technically they are all part GM. Too bad when I traded my GM truck in on my Leg I didn't get the GM preferred customer rewards like when you trade a GM for a GM.

I think someone should get onto a few Saab forums and extend an invitation.

Here's an interesting Focus. Ford contracted with Jerry Kugel to produce the Kugel Focus concept. They test drove it on Hot Rod tv and the guy said he smoked an M5 with it. Along with the Ford Lightening Bolt, another awsome vehicle that could be built, but won't becuse of the limited market.


http://www.kugelkomponents.com/focus/focus.html

http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2212a.shtml

Too bad, I'd trade in my XT for one these.

Originally posted by fourdegrees
Should there be a specific section on this site for the 9-2x?

We already covered that a long time ago:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=43&daysprune=1000&x=13&y=9

bleh! Please keep the crappy cars in the non-Subaru thread.

Originally posted by Lunajett
Audi was my first thought.

mine too

Interesting.
Seperate, but related to, other threads...
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3793717.stm>

Shouldn't be a "WTLW", since it was about 3 hours ago...


Former Mitsubishi boss arrested


Mr Kawasoe took the blame for the company's failings
Japanese police have arrested a former head of Mitsubishi Motors and five other executives as part of a probe into the death of a truck driver.
Former president Katsuhiko Kawasoe, 67, and his former colleagues are accused of professional negligence.

Mr Kawasoe resigned in 2000 after the company admitted it had covered up and fixed vehicle faults rather than report them to the transport ministry.

The firm said it would cooperate fully with the accident investigation.

Taking its toll

The company has been hit hard by the scandal that has dented sales and led to the recall of more than one million vehicles during the past four years.

We take this matter very seriously and intend to fully cooperate

Mitsubishi Motors

Mitsubishi last month negotiated a 450bn yen ($4.1bn) rescue package with Japanese and US investors and is keen to draw a line under its troubled past.

Mitsubishi's problems came to light in 2000 after a cache of complaints was found hidden in a company locker room by government inspectors.

Among the problems that were being reported and ignored were failing brakes, fuel leaks and malfunctioning clutches.

Division

The truck at the centre of the current investigation was made by the company that is now called Mitsubishi Fuso Truck and Bus.

According to the Kyodo news agency, police believe that the fatal accident could have been avoided if the company had openly recalled the vehicles.

Police spokesman Hiroyoshi Ichikawa is quoted as saying that in 1996 Mitsubishi "set up an internal committee and found out that there was a problem in the design and the production of the clutch housing".

According to Mr Hiroyoshi, the committee concluded that it was necessary to recall the vehicle but decided to carry out repairs instead.

The driver of the truck was killed after the clutch failed and the vehicle hit a wall.

Back down

A Mitsubishi Fuso truck was also involved in the accident that killed a woman in 2002 when she was hit by a loose wheel.

A number of Mitsubishi executives were indicted last month as part of that investigation, including former Mitsubishi vice-president Takashi Usami who was among those arrested on Thursday.

The company had initially blamed improper maintenance.

It now admits that a design defect in the wheel hub was to blame and has recalled 112,000 trucks in Japan.

Mitsubishi said it would cooperate fully with the current investigation and offered its "sincerest apologies to the bereaved family".


Russ R

IBMitsurecallstheEVO

More from AP

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040610/ap_on_bi_ge/japan_mitsubishi_motors_12

http://go.fark.com/cgi/fark/go.pl?IDLink=990019&location=http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/audi_rsq.asp

I'd buy it...I wonder if it is ASD (All-Sphere-Drive)

-Allen

Until the mods put a Non-Subaru Forum (if that ever happens), just post Non-Subaru posts in the corresponding "Non-Subaru Threads"

Let's avoid problems... ;)

Stupid Ford... the darn thing looks like a Civic!

As rumored in Car and Driver, Lexus will be releasing a more powerful line of models like the M and AMG called the GT's. There will be three that are said to be released in 2006. The first is LS500GT which will have a hybrid engine producing 200 horsepower with a total of 600 horsepower. The GS350GT which will have a 170 hp hybrid engine for a total of 470 horsepower. And the last for the year is IS350GT which will have the GS's 350 hp engine, but there will be no hybrid for that one.

Actual Total HP may be different because you can not just add the two together.


The gas engine is rated at 133 horsepower, while the electric motor is rated at 94 horses. When combined, they make 155 hp, which may seem odd, as you probably think it should be 227. But there is a formula used to calculate total output and it isn't simply a matter of adding their output figures together. Although 155 ponies doesn't sound like much, the broad power band of the electric motor means that the net result is indeed V6-like performance.

i thought volvo personally.

I see, according to http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=78425361, that Daimler Chrysler has filed for a trademark on "TRX." Seems a little too close to "WRX."

Originally posted by Jon [in CT]
I see, according to http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=78425361, that Daimler Chrysler has filed for a trademark on "TRX." Seems a little too close to "WRX."

Whaaa- ?
How could Michelin have let that old nugget, "TRX", get away from them?
(Anybody else remember "TRX wheels"?!? Not 14 inch... not 15 inch.. but 14.7 inch!!! Christ, I had those POS's on an old Capri...)

Thanks Jon,
Russ R

(and I agree- a little too close...)

Read that Buick will likely abandon the 400 hp TT V6 for a V8 in the upcoming Velite.

Also, BMW will have CSL versions of the V8 (M3) and V10 (M5,M6) each producing 50hp more, for 450 & 550, respectively. But, they are likely not out until fall 05.

Finally, anyone for a tweaked W12 RS8? Perhaps in `08.

I have an old news link here,

When you can have this in 2025 who is going to want to wait 10 years for that Audi.

Bombardier® EMBRIO Concept


Saint-Bruno, Québec - 2003-07-09

http://www.brp.com/NR/rdonlyres/33780DB7-E2A8-49E7-8643-E7A3B2B0F354/0/embrio20030709.jpg

Gold Award
Annual Design Awards - 2003
Industrial Design Society of America & Business Week Magazine

The Bombardier EMBRIO Advanced Concept is a one-wheeled recreational and commuting vehicle that promises a whole new experience on the road. Aimed at the 18 to 45 age group, this advanced concept prefigures the kind of user-friendly, minimalist vehicles we might be seeing - and using - on our urban, suburban and country roads in the year 2025.

The Design
This project was conceived as an exercise in forward thinking: what will the future of recreational transportation be like? Bombardier Recreational Products designers were asked to come up with a prospective concept for a recreational vehicle that would meet the needs of people in the year 2025.

The Bombardier EMBRIO concept is one of several concepts that were proposed by different internal design teams of Bombardier Recreational Products which had to respect the design philosophy "to create highly innovative, functional and exciting products to exceed people's recreational needs", and answer the following challenge: what would be the "next thing" in recreational vehicles?

The resulting concept is a minimalist, pure and simplified design that uses clean lines and on which the human print is obvious, yet fully blended in the overall styling theme. Both beautiful and functional, the Bombardier EMBRIO is exciting to look at, and should be even more exciting to ride.

Technology
The EMBRIO concept is a recreational and commuting vehicle that uses gyroscopic and electronic technology. It is a means of transportation, as well as a way of enjoying transportation as a positive activity. The main power source is a hydrogen fuel cell. In stand-by configuration, the vehicle's front wheels deploy to the ground like a jet plane landing gear to increase longitudinal stability. Thus stabilized, the Bombardier EMBRIO looks perfectly at home in the urban landscape, displaying the beauty of its sculptural lines until it's time to go for a ride.

A Rider-Friendly Vehicle
Riding the Bombardier EMBRIO concept in the real world would be a thrill. With a riding position similar to a motorcycle, the EMBRIO uses a complex series of sensors and gyroscopes to balance one or more human passengers on a single wheel. Technology will be used to harness the laws of physics, with the gyroscopes and sensors, a high-performance braking system, active suspension, night vision and robotic assistance. A digitally encoded learning key will start the engine. To move forward, the rider activates a trigger on the left handlebar. The landing gear retracts when the speed reaches 20 km/h. To turn, the rider leans in the desired direction. The brake is activated by a trigger on the right handlebar. When the speed drops to 20 km/h again, the landing gear redeploys automatically. Even without the landing gear, the EMBRIO would be stable when motionless because of the gyroscope.

An Ecologically Responsible Approach
The use of fuel cell technology and recycling of aluminum and polyethylene makes the Bombardier EMBRIO an eco-friendly design throughout its life cycle.

Materials and Processes
Polypropylene, Santoprene, nylon (injection moulding), aluminum (stamping, die casting and robotic assembly), magnesium (casting).

Dimensions and weight

48.75" x 27.5" x 47.5"
124 cm x 70 cm x 120 cm
360 lb
164 kg

Bombardier Recreational Products designs, develops, builds, distributes and markets utility vehicles, Rotax® engines and karts, Ski-Doo® and Lynx® snowmobiles, BombardierTM ATVs, Sea-Doo® watercraft and sport boats, Johnson® and Evinrude® outboard engines, as well as Evinrude direct injection and Evinrude E-TECTM technologies.

®,TM Trademarks of Bombardier Inc. or its subsidiaries.

For information:
Geneviève Dion
Director, Communications and Public Relations
Bombardier Recreational Products
(450) 461-7706
genevieve.dion@brp.com

www.brp.com

The funny thing is that I have seen a Pedal version of this a couple month ago. It was a Unicycle with a Skateboard type training wheel. For sale in Calgary at the Nordesign Old Store. $50 Canadian.

Lutz casts doubt on future of Sweden-made Saabs


By WIM OUDE WEERNINK | Automotive News Europe

The future of Saab's factory in Sweden has been thrown into doubt by General Motors Vice Chairman Robert Lutz.

"Who knows where Saabs will be built in future? There is nothing that says Saabs have to be made in Sweden," Lutz said.

Saab's plant at Trollhattan, Sweden, is operating at just 59 percent of capacity, according to consultant PricewaterhouseCoopers. The plant assembles the Saab 9-3 and 9-5.

General Motors has struggled to make Saab profitable since it bought 50 percent of the Swedish automaker in 1990 and assumed full ownership in 2000. Saab's losses in 2002 were 450 million euros, or about $551.5 million at current exchange rates. Last year's figures are not available.

Lutz said GM Europe will restructure radically its production capacities to improve utilization of its plants, a move that is likely to affect Saab.

"We like Saab, we like its design, we like its customers," Lutz said. "But Saab's problem is that its product line has been too narrow. That is why we have to do things differently."

Lutz added that Saab needed new models but was too small to develop them alone while it had total annual sales of just 130,000 and huge annual losses.

The 9-2X sport hatchback, which goes on sale in the United States this month, will be produced by Subaru in Japan. It is the first Saab to be built outside Sweden.

Saab's new 9-7X SUV, based on the Chevrolet TrailBlazer, goes on sale in the United States next February. It will be built at GM's plant in Moraine, Ohio.

"Saab has been trying for 20 years to reach sales of 150,000 units a year -- the critical volume it needs to be profitable," said John Lawson, from London-based analyst SmithBarney.

He said adding badged products from Subaru and Chevrolet will give Saab a good chance of reaching the target.

Lutz declined to comment on speculation that GM will produce Opel Vectras or Cadillac-badged Saabs at Trollhattan.

"There will be no badge engineering to produce a 9-3 with a Cadillac nameplate," Lutz said.

"We have said that we would like to expand the presence of Cadillac. If we do something, it will be an entirely new vehicle which may share certain components."

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_print.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=04785295&1540616281

With the New Neon possibly moving to more of a Sportwagon vehicle (ie Toyota Matrix), there is talk that the RWD lightweight Razor may be back into development for the next SRT-4.

A Sub $20K RWD, 2500 lb car with 240+ HP. Sounds like a Blast!!

http://www.theautochannel.com/N/F/news/2004/06/09/199216.1-lg.jpg

Chery Automobile introduced its new MPV at Auto China 2004 in Beijing.

The 7-seater New Crossover (B14) looks a bit like a Chrysler Pacifica. It is 4673 mm long and it will be available with 2.0, 2.4 and 1.9-liter powertrains.

Among the equipment GPS navigation and DVD are listed.

2004-06-09 Please quote Autoindex.org if You use this news article!

http://www.theautochannel.com/F/news/2004/06/09/199216.html

Chinese Chery 7 pax SUV, is what I would invision the new Subaru to SUV to mimick. Alpha1

Why does every new wagon look just like the 2k5 Legacy?

Hmm maybe I've been thinking about the new Legacy I want to buy too much!

May well be WTLW, but I hadn't heard of the FQ340 version of the new Evo MR. 345BHP, 320lbft, leather and alcantara trim and available in gun-metal grey (which looks tremendous). Price is a 5K pound premium over the 'base' MR, the FQ300.

FQ of course stands for "Flippin' Quick", or something. Good to know the age old Impreza / Evo battle continues unabated overseas.

Details can be found at www.evo.co.uk under 'Driven', you have to register to read and I can't figure out what the direct URL is.

If this is old news, sorry. But it looks pretty cool to me.

Al

I'm not sure how much it really continues. It looks like Mitsu is forging on, but there hasn't really been a major STi update in some time.

I take your point, in the face of the MR FQ 340, the Subaru camp looks as though it's been caught napping. The UK's recent WR1 version is little more than a 'special edition' and, on paper at least, it can't hold a candle to the FQ340. The Spec C, while not technically new, would at least stand a chance, but it is a 'grey import' to the UK (like the FQ, but with less in the way of factory support); and its pretty much stripped-out unlike the FQ.
That leaves the most likely competitor to the FQ as the Type-25 and it's not even an official Subaru product.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a Type 25 on that show. They tested the prodrive preformance upgraded STi last year (I forget what the package was called PPP?). The STi is already plenty ridiculous, I'm not sure how critical it is for Subaru to continue to make it even more insane.

The Dodge Razor MAY be produced. It's hard to tell. Dieter Zetsche is equivocating in public...the rumor mills keep generating new gossip. Earliest start date is expected to be calendar year 2006.

Hard core muscle enthusiasts can relax - it might not have a V8, but it doesn't need one. The rear wheel drive Dodge Razor hits 60 mph in under six seconds, goes faster than 140 miles per hour, and has a six-speed manual. The 2.4 liter turbo engine, also used in the Neon SRT-4 - which is equally fast - motorvates this new concept car, but probably will not make it into the production version, if there is one.

To keep the Dodge Razor affordable should it ever reach production, many 'off-the-shelf' corporate suspension and underbody components were used. Germany is of course supplying the six-speed manual, but the engine is Chrysler's own, with an intercooled turbo and 250 horsepower (230 lb-ft of torque).

The targeted price is an amazing $14,500.

Dodge Razor's only ornamentations are the chrome bumpers, the racing-style billet-aluminum gas cap, the classic door handles and mirrors and the jewel-like lamp design.

Like the Road Runner - a moniker which we can only hope will be applied to the production version - the Razor offers the necessities for driving, nothing more. No power windows or mirrors, no radio or leather power seats, no frills whatsoever. Dodge Razor offers its two occupants lightweight, competition-style seats, four-point racing harnesses, storage behind their seats and the pure joy of driving. "Razor's interior is like a clean canvas. Our vision is that you would be able to get additional features through MOPAR to paint your ideal driving setting," said interior designer Schuttera.

The Dodge Razor's instrument cluster has an integrated tachometer/speedometer with analog reading of the revs and a digital read-out of the speed. This compact unit is flanked by easy-to-read gauges for temperature/oil pressure and fuel/battery. The interior is finished in body color and extruded aluminum.

Preliminary specificationsEngine: 2.4-liter I-4 turbocharged w/intercooler
Estimated Power: 250 bhp. (187 kW)
Estimated Torque: 230 lb.-ft. (312 Nm)
Transmission: Six-speed manual transmission
Drive: Rear-wheel drive
Structure: Lightweight steel unibody
Front suspension: Independent MacPherson setup
Rear suspension: Multi-link independent with coil-over-shock setup
Front wheels: 19" x 7"
Rear wheels: 20" x 7"
Length: 147.8 in. (3754 mm)
Width: 68.8 in. (1748 mm)
Height: 47.8 in. (1214 mm)
Wheelbase: 98 in. (2489 mm)
Track: Front: 58 in. (1473 mm)
Track: Rear: 60 in. (1524 mm)
Front Overhang: 27.3 in. (693 mm)
Rear Overhang: 22.4 in. (569 mm)
Est. Weight: 2500 lbs. (1134 kg)
0-60 mph. (0-96 km/h): estimated at 6 sec.
Estimated Top Speed: 140 mph. (225 km/h)

Volvo Announces Pricing for its new 2005 V50 Sportswagon

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Irvine, CA (June 9, 2004) – Volvo's lineup of exciting cars grew by one today when Volvo Cars of North America, LLC (VCNA) announced its aggressive pricing strategy of the all-new Volvo V50 Sportswagon, a car that's destined to find its way into more than a few garages of today's active-lifestyle buyers. The all-new 2005 V50 carries a manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP)* of $25,660 for the normally aspirated front-wheel-drive 2.4i, and $27,260 for the front-wheel-drive turbocharged T5. An all-wheel-drive version of the T5 will also be offered for a base price of just $28,910.

Scheduled to go on sale in the U.S. this July, the 168-horsepower 2.4i will be available with a 5-speed "Geartronic" automatic transmission while the 218-horsepower T5 is offered with a choice of either a close-ratio 6-speed manual transmission (late availability) or the automatic gearbox.

The 2005 Volvo V50 sets the safety standard in its class – both active and passive – and represents an evolution of the, "You think and then you build" theme that began with the award winning XC90 sport-utility vehicle. It's all part of Volvo's Intelligent Vehicle Architecture (VIVA), a unique approach to building a car that integrates everything from its crashworthiness, to its design and exciting driving characteristics. This is possible due to several interacting units, including an extremely stiff body, a new frontal structure and Volvo's Side Impact Protection System (SIPS).

"With the premium SUV segment up nearly 19 percent over last year, the introduction of the new V50 Sportswagen makes sense for Volvo. It's the perfect cross-over vehicle," commented VCNA President and CEO, Vic Doolan. "With its 218-horsepower engine, 6-speed manual transmission and available all-wheel drive, it's the kind of car that can be equipped for almost any lifestyle need."

The new V50 is the sportswagon version of the all-new Volvo S40 sports sedan that went on sale earlier this year. The V50's fully independent sport-tuned suspension and quick, precise steering offers an uncommonly comfortable yet athletic driving experience. Combined with the V50's large cargo area that features over 46 cubic-feet of space and it's easy to see why both the automotive press and consumers alike are praising the new Volvo.

"The amazing reaction to this vehicle at its North American debut at the Detroit auto show earlier this year indicated that we had something special with the V50," continued Doolan. "It appears to a variety of lifestyles. As such, we're offering a wide range of variants to help buyers personalize their V50 to their needs. Combined, the new V50 and S40 are available in 11 possible configurations."

Aside from the new V50 and S40, the 2004-2005 Volvo automobile line includes the award-winning XC90, sporty S60 sedan, the redesigned S80 luxury sedan, versatile V70 wagon and rugged Cross Country, and the beautiful C70 convertible.

VCNA provides marketing, sales, service, technology and training to Volvo automobile retailers in the U.S., Canada, Mexico and Puerto Rico. For more information on specific option-package pricing please refer to the Volvo Cars of North America, LLC, public relations website at: www.volvocars-pr.com. * Prices do not include destination charges of $685.

For those who want something to do:


Chrysler Group President and CEO Dieter Zetsche to Host Major Groundbreaking Ceremony
* Zetsche to Unearth What's Coming Next at the Chrysler Group
* Groundbreaking Event Marks 50th Anniversary of DaimlerChrysler Chelsea
Proving Grounds
WHAT: To commemorate the 50th Anniversary of the DaimlerChrysler Chelsea Proving Grounds, Chrysler Group will conduct a major groundbreaking event

WHO: Dieter Zetsche, Chrysler Group President and CEO
Joe Eberhardt, Executive Vice President -- Global Sales, Marketing
and Service
Kipp Owen, Director -- Proving Grounds and Durability Testing

WHEN: Tuesday, June 15 -- 11:00 a.m. (EDT)

DETAILS: Be sure to bring camera.
Information and visuals from groundbreaking event are for immediate release.

Please plan to arrive no later than 10:30 a.m.

Shorts, skirts, tank tops and open-toe shoes are not allowed at Chelsea Proving Grounds.

OTHER: Directions: I-94 West to Exit 159 (Chelsea-Manchester Road / M-52). Take M-52 exit and follow it to the right at the fork in the ramp, traveling south. Merge onto M-52 South. Look for the blue and white water tower on the right side of M-52, about two miles south of I-94. (3700 M-52 South, Chelsea, MI 48118)

SL65 AMG

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-V12, BI-turbo
- 612 BHP
- 1000NM between 2000 and 4000R/min
- 0-100Km/h in 4.2 sec.
- 0-200 in 12.9 sec.
- limited at 250Km/h
- " everything " has been modfied or enlarged from the 55 AMG
- ABC has been tightend and is firmer
- brakes 390x36 front, 360x26 rear
- standard 19", tires 255/35 front and 285/30 rear
- rear almost unchanged
- electrical seats, with memory-function
- dials go up to 360Km/h, V12 Bi-turbo logo
- Command, CD-changer, Bi-xenon are standard

Originally posted by mh_WRX


If the Razor has that power to weight ratio and still takes 6 seconds to get to 60, the six-speed must be geared to go 600 mph!

Im curious to see if any magazine makes a comparison between the volvo v50 sportwagon and the new saabarrruu. 92x

BlitZ

whats the point in having dials that go up to 360Kph when your limited to 250?

All that does is make it hard for you to figure out how fast you are going.

I would rather have its dials go to 125Kph and have a second hand for speed over that. That way you will always feel like your going really fast. Rather then never going fast at all.

Dumb!

Originally posted by Diabolical1 CC
whats the point in having dials that go up to 360Kph when your limited to 250?

All that does is make it hard for you to figure out how fast you are going.

I would rather have its dials go to 125Kph and have a second hand for speed over that. That way you will always feel like your going really fast. Rather then never going fast at all.

Dumb!

I think it may be because the Dealer can remove the limiter..If you ask real nice.

re: SL65

Doesn't Mercedes seem to be creating competition for its Super-Dupercar the McLaren Mercedes SLR by releasing the SL65 and the CLK DTM?

Some of the DTM details, to compare with the SLs:
Limited to a production run of only 100 units
AMG 5.5-litre V8 supercharged engine developing 582 hp
0 to 100 km/h in just 3.9 seconds
electronically governed maximum speed of 320 km/h
19 and 20-inch AMG light-alloy wheels
body components have been constructed from the high-strength and extremely lightweight carbon-fibre-reinforced material CFRP

Full article on the DTM found here (http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/NewsID/2040503.002/mercedes/1.html)

http://www.germancarfans.com/news/2040503.002/2040503.002.Mini15L.jpg

New 2005 Dodge Ram Power Wagon

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New for 2005, the big, bad Dodge Ram Power Wagon is back for the first time in 25 years. The Dodge Ram Power Wagon returns to the Dodge lineup as a new Dodge Ram Heavy Duty model, and debuts as the most capable off-road pickup on the planet.

Built for the road less traveled, the Dodge Ram Power Wagon legend is reborn with legendary HEMI power, class-exclusive electric locking front and rear differentials, a class-exclusive electronic disconnecting front sway bar and a custom-built Warn 12,000-lb. winch. The Dodge Ram Power Wagon leaves the competition in its dust — on- and off-road — and follows a simple credo: talk loudly and carry a big stick.

"The new 2005 Dodge Ram Power Wagon lives up to its name," said Mike Donoughe, Vice President — Body-on-Frame Product Team. "Dodge Power Wagon doesn't just beat the competition, it decimates them. There is simply no other pickup on the market that can touch the Dodge Ram Power Wagon's off-road prowess."

Based on the Dodge Ram 2500 and available in either Regular or Quad CabTM body styles, the new 2005 Dodge Ram Power Wagon stands 80.6 inches tall and is distinguished by custom matte finish wheel flares, a large Power Wagon badge across the tailgate, custom 17 x 8-inch polished forged aluminum wheels and 33-inch BF Goodrich All-Terrain T/A tires — the tallest standard tires offered on a production pickup.

The 345-horsepower 5.7-liter HEMI Magnum V-8 is the only available engine.

The 2005 Dodge Ram Power Wagon boasts best-in-class wheel articulation with new suspension designs. The front suspension uses a solid front axle with coil spring design, while the rear features a new single stage leaf design and uses unique, softer spring settings.

For serious off-roading capability, the Dodge Ram Power Wagon features new 4.56 gearing and Bilstein monotube high-pressure gas shock absorbers.

"The Dodge Ram Power Wagon goes where other pickups cannot, but without deteriorating the Ram Heavy Duty's ride or towing capability," said Donoughe. "The Power Wagon was built by off-roaders for off-roaders. One look at it — and especially at the standard custom 12,000-lb. Warn winch — lets you know that Power Wagon means business."

not really a 'new car' post, but a question about a non-subaru...

"Infiniti built its reputation on a stunning combination of powerful rear-wheel and all-wheel drive vehicles and outstanding customer service," said Mark Igo

umm, I am not a big fan or follower of Infinity, but how can they say this.

I have not until this last year seen a single Infinity that was produced with AWD, let alone even RWD. they have had some moderately fast cars in the past, but not what I would call 'powerful'

sorry to go off topic a bit by not bringing up a new car, or new car news, but this just bothers me.

Originally posted by samagon
not really a 'new car' post, but a question about a non-subaru...



umm, I am not a big fan or follower of Infinity, but how can they say this.

I have not until this last year seen a single Infinity that was produced with AWD, let alone even RWD. they have had some moderately fast cars in the past, but not what I would call 'powerful'

sorry to go off topic a bit by not bringing up a new car, or new car news, but this just bothers me.

All but the I30 and G20 have been RWD for Infiniti, and the First Q was powerful for it's time, but not fast due to weight.

AWD is new for the brand though

While Inifinity might may not have had a strong AWD portfolio, Nissan has been building them for Japan for years. Perhaps that is what he's referring to.

And hasn't Infiniti had a version of the Pathfinder for some years now? Not sure if it's AWD or 4WD or what but it could be what they refer to...

Nicolas

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DaimlerChrysler is currently testing the hottest sports version of the next generation A-Class at Nürburgring. While the A-Class until now was only available in two versions, a standard five-door and a longer five-door, the future will hold some more variants of this model. Right from the start of the next generation A-Class, Mercedes will release simultaneously the new five-door and the coupe-like three-door as shown in these photos. Both cars will have a longer wheelbase than the current long-version A-model.

The all-wheel-drive B-Class crossover will also be based on the new A-Class. The new A- and B-Class models will be offered with a choice of engines ranging from a 90-hp 1.5-liter four to a 170-hp 2.0-liter turbo four. Three diesels will be offered as well.

Originally posted by NicoGamine
And hasn't Infiniti had a version of the Pathfinder for some years now? Not sure if it's AWD or 4WD or what but it could be what they refer to...

Nicolas

That's true, forgot about the QX line

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At the 2003 Detroit auto show, Aston Martin proudly showed its AMV8 Vantage concept car. Although it was a "concept" at that time, Aston Martin spokesmen made it quite clear that this model was destined for production. Now these latest photos show a prototype of this new Aston Martin undergoing high-speed testing at Germany 's famous Nürburgring racetrack.

The AMV8 Vantage will be priced lower than other Aston Martin's, and is intended to sell in larger volumes. Still, with a price well over $100,000 this will not be a bargain-basement vehicle. It is instead a high-performance car that sets it sights on competing with Porsche and Ferrari.

The new AMV8 Vantage will be smaller than the Aston Martin DB7 and Vanquish models, and will be strictly a two-seater inside. Powering the AMV8 Vantage will be a 4.3-liter V-8 engine. The powertrain will be front-engine and rear-drive, and will use a rear-mounted transmission to help it achieve a near-50/50 weight balance.

The AMV8 Vantage is expected to go on sale in 2005.

Hybrid Cars Latest to Sell for "Monroney-Plus"

Paying higher-than-sticker prices has not been a practice associated with hot cars. Exotic foreign and domestic roadsters have been the "gotta-haves" on which dealers have more readily asked "premiums" or "market value adjustments" when short supplies frustrate impatient sold-order customers. Debut editions of Chevrolet Corvette or BMW Z4 and Z3 two-seaters come to mind as anxiously-awaited cars which brought trading prices substantially above Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price, as indicated on the federally required window stickers known as "Monroneys." The coming Corvette C6 and Ford GT could fall into this elite niche as well.

But now, limited-volume hybrid-engine Toyota Prius and Honda Civic Hybrid compact sedans have surprised industry watchers by being the first non-roadster vehicles to achieve the status of "what the market is bearing" commodities, says Wall Street Journal writer Sholnn Freeman (June 10). The 2004 Prius is commanding up to $6000-$8000 above the $25,000-$26,000 delivery price of fully equipped models that are delivered without upward adjustments.

Hybrid-engine zeal has made all the difference for the Prius and its Honda Civic competitors. Reportedly, Honda dealers are realizing a more modest premium, under pressure from American Honda, but waiting lists are growing long for each and the trade is buzzing with reports of Honda and Toyota dealers marking up trade-in offers for customers frantic to be the first hybrid-engine owner in the subdivision.

Ford could be facing a similar situation when its 2005-model Escape Hybrid SUV hits the market this fall. The automaker released an MSRP of $26,970 for a two-wheel drive Escape and $28,595 for a four-wheel drive version, but is planning to build only about 4,000 units this year. Toyota reportedly is stepping up Prius production to 47,000 and Honda is looking at close to 40,000 Civic hybrids due later this fall, including the Toyota Highlander SUV and Lexus RX330 SUV. Observers expect pressures from those eager to drive the trendy fuel-savers could continue as long as demand exceeds the supplies by such wide margins.

Originally posted by allythom
May well be WTLW, but I hadn't heard of the FQ340 version of the new Evo MR. 345BHP, 320lbft, leather and alcantara trim and available in gun-metal grey (which looks tremendous). Price is a 5K pound premium over the 'base' MR, the FQ300.

Details can be found at www.evo.co.uk under 'Driven', you have to register to read and I can't figure out what the direct URL is.

If this is old news, sorry. But it looks pretty cool to me.

Al

Here's the Auto Express article so you don't have to register-

Mitsubishi Evo VIII MR FQ-340

With 342bhp, revised suspension and a tuned four-wheel-drive system, the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VIII has raised the performance car ante yet again.

Aimed directly at Subaru's Impreza WR1, the Evo VIII MR FQ-340 looks similar to the company's previous flagship FQ-330, but promises a very different driving experience. We got behind the wheel to find out what it's like.

After the £32,999 price tag, the first things that hit you are the revised headlamps, gunmetal paintwork and bright red MR badging (it stands for Mitsubishi Racing). Aerodynamic roof winglets are fitted to improve airflow, and the engine management system has been reprogrammed to raise the output to 342bhp, while improving throttle response.

Uprated Bilstein suspension smooths the ride a bit, but the car is still far from refined. A toughened steel synchro on the six-speed box has made gearshifts slicker, yet this latest Evo is an animal. Acceleration is brutal, with 0-60mph in only 4.4 seconds. The competition-style anti-lock brakes need to be warmed up before they really bite into the huge discs, while grip from the Yokohama tyres is astonishing. But as with previous Evos, the MR has been designed purely for speed - and despite having a practical four-door body, it soon becomes uncomfortable on long motorway journeys. The performance is a big improvement over its predecessor, but the price you pay is rising all the time.
Dan Strong

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I'm not a Mitsu fan, just thought I'd post this for those who are.

posted by mh_WRX
http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gallery/8124_image.jpg

I actually think that is a pretty cool looking a-class.

BlitZ

Golf 5 is better IMO..

I am sure you guys follow the automotive press pretty closely. I Personally love subaru, Not blindly of course, I can see when they have a serious flaw. But what really gets to me are the latest reveiws of the 9-2x. In all of them I have not once seen any reference to the fact that the Impreza is getting all or almost all the same improvements that the 9-2 is recieving. They rant and rave about how the 3k premium is justified by a huge chasm between the two in percieved qaulity, as well as the serious improvements such as the new steering rack mounts, etc.

I am considering being the upteenth person to write to these magazines pissed about it, but I am sure the more literate types here have already done that.

Any one else torqued about this?


Regards,
Roy

saab has a reputation of being more of a sports car company than subaru...so the 9-2x will get more press compared to the econobox impreza with the fast engine...thats how i view it anyways...i dont care much because i know the score ;)

Yes, I didn't like in C&D how they were basically comparing the 2002 WRX with the 9-2X. ... yeah, when we drove it 3 years ago it was this this and this, and now it is so much better! ... Well no ****, genius!

The steering rack is real though, since WRX doesn't get the STi rack like 9-2X does.

17 wheels and a decent front end. I'd buy one.

Originally posted by bemani
...since WRX doesn't get the STi rack like 9-2X does.

Mine does!

I have noticed this trend myself. They rave about how great the auto climate control and different console is without mention that the WRX has the same thing.

-Bryce

I have read numerous reviews on the 9-2X. The funny thing is how PO'ed the Saab enthusiasts are about the car. They can argue me to the death about this, but the fact is that the 9-2X is the absolute best thing that ever happend to them in terms of performance. The 9-2X will spank their $40K+ Viggen all over the road while that thing is tourque steering like a Wild Bull. The best part are the reviews from Mags like European Car (which I also subscribe to). Euro. Car talks about how great the 9-2X, how much better than a WRX it is, and best of all, for the 9-2 linear, they never, ever, would think of mentioning that that car is an IMPREZA 2.5RS! They didn't seem so embarassed the Aero model was a WRX. I am not saying which car is better, but the publications should stop jocking the Saab so hard. Saabists can say what they will because we are just as POed that you are driving our cars.......I have had 2 WRXS and can't wait to get another Subie!

The car mags tend to write only about completely new models. The WRX has been around since 2002 with revisions which the mags never feel the need to mention. When was the last article you saw about the 2004 WRX redesign? The 2005 WRX is not different enough from the 2004 to write about apparently.

Originally posted by Bagelw
The 2005 WRX is not different enough from the 2004 to write about apparently.

This is not a valid excuse; they're lazy and not thorough. Most of the C&D bashes at the "eco car" WRX were improved for 05. How can they rave about the Saab interior and handling when they added $3k in leather and 17" wheels?

I like the Saab alot, would buy one if I needed a new car and the numbers worked out. But that article was a joke.

Originally posted by Snowphun
This is not a valid excuse; they're lazy and not thorough. Most of the C&D bashes at the "eco car" WRX were improved for 05. How can they rave about the Saab interior and handling when they added $3k in leather and 17" wheels?

I like the Saab alot, would buy one if I needed a new car and the numbers worked out. But that article was a joke.

Nope it's not valid but I just notice that is what the mags tend to do.

Originally posted by WRXURV8
I have read numerous reviews on the 9-2X. The funny thing is how PO'ed the Saab enthusiasts are about the car. They can argue me to the death about this, but the fact is that the 9-2X is the absolute best thing that ever happend to them in terms of performance. The 9-2X will spank their $40K+ Viggen all over the road while that thing is tourque steering like a Wild Bull. The best part are the reviews from Mags like European Car (which I also subscribe to). Euro. Car talks about how great the 9-2X, how much better than a WRX it is, and best of all, for the 9-2 linear, they never, ever, would think of mentioning that that car is an IMPREZA 2.5RS! They didn't seem so embarassed the Aero model was a WRX. I am not saying which car is better, but the publications should stop jocking the Saab so hard. Saabists can say what they will because we are just as POed that you are driving our cars.......I have had 2 WRXS and can't wait to get another Subie!


Amen...I ranted about the Snaabs before. I wrote a nice little email to car and driver...anyone read the july motortrend with over an entire page devoted to the Snaabs bashing the 9-2x(the 9-7x as well but that's another story)?

I just got the new Autoweek w/the SRT-6 on the cover. They reviewed the Saabaru briefly and was basically happy with the car.
BUT....they don't think the Saab badge justifies a $3~5k upcharge. It rides a little softer w/a bit more luxury but they also mentioned that the WRX is a good car...even a great car :banana: but paying that much $$ for the Saab name is rediculous. 1 editor wrote it should be the exact same price...another said maybe $1~2k would be worth it.
I think it's a nice lookin' car but for that money....STi Baby :D :D

I've owned both saab & subaru and I kinda like the the idea of saab improving on subaru's design even though its certainly not a major redesign. Read in one mag that subaru liked some of saab's tweaks enough to incorporate them in the 05 impreza. I wish they'd let saab play with the engine a little to see if they could lessen turbo lag. Also, thought i read somewhere that the 9-2x uses the aluminum front control arms. if so that would account for a good chunk of change.

I really don't care about reviews. If the reviewers ignore Subies so much the better for not driving prices up for those of us in the know.

The Saab also comes with HID's.

Originally posted by WRSport
The Saab also comes with HID's.

optional

Originally posted by WRSport
The Saab also comes with HID's.

Oh goody. Maybe when SAAB starts selling the Legacy platform, that will get HIDs too.;) :p :furious:

Originally posted by djerickd
optional

Ahh yes, you are correct, you have to get the leather package to get the HID's.

Argghh, they also have the satin grey color. Come on subaru bring us a DARK grey color!

our dealership has a Saab showroom as well as Subaru and the Saab boys told me yesterday that so far Nationwide sales of the 9-2 are1!Thats right 1!LOL!Big hit!So the press sure is not helping sales........

1?

Uhhh I dont get it, I have already seen 2 on the road in the bay area.

The 9-2 is just a luxo Impreza. The redesign doesn't inspire me too much. It reminds me of typical GM platform sharing ala the Camaro/Firebird, Pontiac/Buick/Oldsmobile sedans and others. It is obviously a Saab front end blended to an Impreza wagon body. It is a stop gap car until Saab can afford to build one of their own.

It is a tad heavier than the WRX due to the "refinements" it steers quicker and has aluminum control arms. All those items can be purchased for your Subie if you want them. Lets face it, the majority of people would rather pay less because they could care less about an STi steering rack, aluminum control arms and 17" wheels.

I'm also not sure if Saab can tweek a motor anymore than Subaru already has. If you were going to have anyone trweak a boxer, give it to Porsche. If you are lagging the WRX you aren't revving it enough.

Originally posted by WRSport
1?

Uhhh I dont get it, I have already seen 2 on the road in the bay area.



are you sure none of those were dealer cars?

Originally posted by secorsubaru
our dealership has a Saab showroom as well as Subaru and the Saab boys told me yesterday that so far Nationwide sales of the 9-2 are1!Thats right 1!LOL!Big hit!So the press sure is not helping sales........

Many dealers haven't even gotten their cars yet; how does this prove anything? The car will sell; it won't break records in either direction.

I think subaru runs a risk of losing would be wrx owners to the 9-2x. saab and subaru faithfuls may not buy it...but the wrx was a hit...

now people looking for a more refined more "presentable" nameplate than "subaru" just might look at the saab...i admit...i already liked the wagon wrx over the sedan from when they were bug eyed...

if i had to chose between a wrx or the 9-2x..i'd probably chose the 9-2x...no it's not blasphemy though...i am a subaru loyalist but i did consider a lot of other vehicles before the sti (new Mini, used escalade ext, new cts, new g35 coupe, new legacy, used porsche boxter, new saab 9-3.) I just came back home after deciding performance is the best thing for me while i'm young :D

300C success has Chrysler mulling production boost

The success of the 300C sedan, the 5.7-liter Hemi engine and high expectations for the Dodge Magnum launching this week and Dodge Charger due out next year has Chrysler mulling production hikes to meet demand.

"Demand for both the 300C and the Hemi has been beyond our wildest dreams," says Chrysler CEO Dieter Zetsche.

Hemi production began in June 2002 at the Saltillo plant in Mexico, with a projected production of 440,000 engines a year. Only about a quarter of those engines were planned to be used in heavy-duty pickups, with the rest expected to end up in large cars like the 300C and Dodge Magnum, Grand Cherokees, Dakotas, Durangos, and light-duty pickups.

Zetsche said production has already been increased through the breaking of some bottlenecks, and that the company is putting plans in place to add some production through extra shifts and other means. "We are much more flexible in Mexico with regard to what we can do versus our U.S. plants," says Zetsche, who stopped short of saying an additional production line would be added.

At the Brampton, Ontario, plant, which produces the 300C and Dodge Magnum, production of the 300C recently was slowed so that an adequate supply of the Dodge Magnum could get out to dealers.

Already, though, Zetsche is talking about changes to the traditional two-week summer shutdown to cope with demand. "We are talking with the union to see what is possible," said Zetsche.

Asked if he is surprised by the early interest in the 300C, Zetsche said, "I wouldn't recommend planning for this kind of success."

Through May, the Chrysler sold 23,000 300/300C vehicles after it arrived in showrooms in March. That compares with 17,000 Concordes sold in the first five months of last year.

"It shows what happens when you focus on a total package, inside and outside and deliver styling that hits emotions," said the CEO.

Says marketing consultant Dennis Keene, "Full-size sedans was a dead market, and Chrysler is pumping new life and energy into it - it's like finding gold in a mine you thought had been tapped out."

That success should be enough to get Chrysler to lay off rebates, but a $1000 rebate remains for buyers who finance through Chrysler Credit. "As successful as the 300C is, buyers in this segment are addicted to rebates and the dealers tell us we have to have one to stay competitive," says Chrysler spokesman Jason Vines.

Does Zetsche have equally high hopes for the Dodge Magnum? "People told us when we started out with the Magnum that station wagons are dead, and I said, I don't give a *****, whatever it is we will double it by delivering a functional car people want," Zetsche said.

Some Chrysler insiders, though, are more cautious in projecting as much success for the Magnum as is being enjoyed by the 300C.

To hedge bets, Chrysler will add the Dodge Charger to production next year in case interest in the Magnum cools or underperforms expectations. Then it can easily dial production up and down among the three models to cope with demand.

There's a chance this is a chop, but if it is it's good.

No one seems to know where this came from.

http://uploader.co.uk/images/gtr_concept.jpg

No driver and a funny orange bit under the car.

Originally posted by Diabolical1 CC
No driver and a funny orange bit under the car.

Driver's shirt can be seen in the car's left seat. Orange is consistant with the orange from the sunset behind the car, and in the reflection along the side of the car. The ridge to the car's right is cutting off the sunset up to where it hits the pavement. Either real or a really good chop. Either way.. I like it

:banana:

i liked the previous gt-r concept much better. this is just to busy, a random collection of lines, arcs, and shapes.

previous:

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/large/1044-1.jpg

Here is a link to pics of an Aztec which looks like it walked its way through the same group of designers as the next Suby's.

http://www.lateral-g.net/aztec/

disgusting

Wow, I actually like it in a "would never WANT one, but kind of looks like a car from a sci-fi movie" way!

-Allen

Like puttin' lipstick on a pig.

I'm glad I don't own any GM stock.

Well, it DOES have 625 lb/ft of torque, so I do have some respect, but c'mon, a side exhaust on an Aztek???

They're killing that thing, and I'm happy about it. My eyes hurt just looking at em. Only GM I'd own is a 'vette, and then only if I had the scratch to ship it to West Tuning or Ligenfelter and have them build me a twin-turbo V8 monstrosity.

it reminds me of something cool yet grotesque at the same time...if they could fix the headlights and make them less insectoid...they could make it worth it.

Volvo confirms V-8 engine

While Ford's Escape gets cleaner and more fuel-efficient, the company's Volvo brand is moving into V-8 engines to deliver smooth power to its big SUV, the XC90. Volvo CEO Vic Doolan confirms to USA Today that the brand will gain a V-8 engine for its sport-ute vehicle. The powerplant will be a 4.4-liter, 320-hp V-8 commissioned by the Swedish brand from Japanese engine and bike maker Yamaha. Models equipped with the new engine are expected to account for 10,000 to 12,000 sales yearly; the engine eventually will be added to other Volvo vehicles. It could arrive within a year, the paper reports.

Good thing they didn't get a Honda Engine, those Blow up all the time.

I'd drive it....






















in to a lake. :lol:

Originally posted by akm3
Wow, I actually like it in a "would never WANT one, but kind of looks like a car from a sci-fi movie" way!

-Allen

I agree. It doesn't look half as bad with big wheels on it. What the hell was GM thinking when they put 15" wheels on an SUV?

The next time you see an Aztek, look at the wheels and think of a grocery cart. You will laugh out loud.

I thought they stopped subjecting us to that awful thing when sales wernt that great:confused: none the less it's ugly

how is this honda's new awd fair against subarus?
anyone any idea...?

http://world.honda.com/news/2004/4040401.html

sorry if anyone post it already...

I'm not a drivetrain expert, so any corrections to my opinion are welcome. But the way I see it, this appears to be an electronic control device replacing something that a purely mechanical system with limited slip capabilities can already do. Can't the Subie performance based AWD systems already push needed traction as far as nessicary to any ONE of the wheels, as opposed to just front/back?

The Subaru system I think does more on the line of on a per end, not corner basis. I believe the AYC system helps distribute the power better, which is the one component I think the STi could take advantage of.

If I could choose between the Honda/Acura system and Subaru, I'd go with Subaru. Can't imagine the cost in replacing one of those electromechanical unit! :eek:

Originally posted by mh_WRX
There's a chance this is a chop, but if it is it's good.

No one seems to know where this came from.

http://uploader.co.uk/images/gtr_concept.jpg

Check out this link...

Fresh Alloy (http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=67776577&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

Scroll down a bit where it's compared to an Opel. It's a chop.

2 registered and 16 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

I wonder if they know that they are linked?

From he page:

This information is then conveyed to the rear differential, where direct electromagnetic clutches continuously regulate and vary front-rear torque distribution between ratios of 30:70 and 70:30, and lateral torque distribution in the rear wheels between ratios of 100:0 and 0:100. Torque is used not only for propulsion, but for cornering as well, resulting in a significant enhancement in vehicle maneuverability.
I notice 2 things: Honda's system can give more torque to the rear OR front axles, something no Subaru AWD system I know of can do (they are either front or rear biased, which means they can go from 40/60 or 60/40 to 50/50, i.e. locked state..., please someone tell me I am wrong...) and it can send all torque to one of the rear wheels, which again none of Subaru's systems can do (LSDs can lock, essentially splitting the torque in 2, but cannot send more torque to one side for handling purposes). The latter can be very good on handling: McLaren tried left and right brake pedals a few years back in F1 but that was outlawed... :) The RL's system reminds me of the Prelude SH's front differential of a few years ago that used torque to provide better handling in corners.

SUBE555 hit it on the nail, IMHO: Subaru's system may not be the best, most advanced, best performing in all possible situations system (if any can be all of those... ;) ), but it's the only one available in a line of mainstream-priced cars. I couldn't afford an Audi or an MB with 4Matic or whatever, but I can afford a Subaru.

My 2 cents...

Nicolas

I think all the companies like Honda that are putting AWD into their flagship cars have to make a splash technologically, as if to justify their late entry into the segment by "adding" something to AWD. So, their AWD might be technologically superior or even better, but probably not necessary. Subaru's been doing AWD for years, and I think they've got their system down pretty good.

Twin Super chargers? DAMN!


Seems like the Aztec has a HUGE amount of engine bay room. I could crawl into there with the engine!

I'm getting the feeling that the Honda's drivetrain will make it into a porker. When you look at the weight of ~3300 lb for the new Legacy, that's fairly light for an AWD midsized vehicle. +1 for Subaru in that department.

Subaru has 30 years of experience with 4WD/AWD they have had plenty of time to work the bugs out.Honda is just begining.:eek:

Can somebody verify that this tranny is kinda like the Skyline tranny? From reading it, it kinda sound like they took most of the technology from the skyline tranny, might be wrong but sounds familiar.

Mike

that looks like a vibe on crack.

Mike

Originally posted by ajabobrut
Subaru has 30 years of experience with 4WD/AWD they have had plenty of time to work the bugs out.Honda is just begining.:eek:

AWD was an option on the Civic tall wagons in the mid/late-80's. (only on the base model IIRC, which is rather weird). They've been making AWD CR-V's since 1997.

As far as I can tell, they took the differential system that was on the SH Prelude and adapted it for AWD capabilities.

If they put this SH-AWD system in the TL, I am so there.

Its no where near new, and is just a concept. As far as I know they were going to kill the Aztec, but who knows.

Saw these a few months ago, from the SEMA show I think...

The AWD system that's on the CRV is pretty basic, but the AWD wich is on the Acura MDX/Honda Pilot is very sophisticated, kinda
like the AWD system from the Skyline or the Porsche 959...

Originally posted by SC WRX
I think all the companies like Honda that are putting AWD into their flagship cars have to make a splash technologically, as if to justify their late entry into the segment by "adding" something to AWD. So, their AWD might be technologically superior or even better, but probably not necessary.
True. I remember reading somewhere that when MB came out with their first AWD system they made sure it was more complex than Porsche's... :) Acura's situation is a little different as they are competing against a bunch of RWD cars, so AWD is a good way to get rid of the downsides of FWD without having to develop a RWD platform.

Originally posted by SC WRX
Subaru's been doing AWD for years, and I think they've got their system down pretty good.
Yep, Subaru has been doing it a long time but in a different market than Acura. Subarus are (relatively) inexpensive, reliable cars with AWD, not luxury cars like Acuras. I'm sure Honda can do something interesting and reliable.

Nicolas

P.s. I owned a Honda and was happy with it. I own a Subaru and am happy with it. ;)

The old Honda system ("real-time 4WD" ??) was just FWD with some sort of transfer system if the front wheels started slipping.

I can swear I read somewhere that GM was actually trying to influence Subaru to redesign the Aztec for GM, theories indicated the possible use/rape of the Subaru 7-seater platform as the foundation. Does anyone remember this, or am I just going cuckoo today?